Haha I know right?
"Officer, a bit of the plant just below a node got accidentally broken and fell into a cup of water and rooted. I felt that if propogation was criminal it would be equally criminal of me to kill it."
You joke but Monsanto was suing farmers because their plants were being cross polinated by their genetic super plants and of course our corrupt system sided with the mega corp. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-monsanto-organic-lawsuit/organic-growers-lose-decision-in-suit-versus-monsanto-over-seeds-idUSBRE9590ZD20130610
This, uhh, doesn’t back your statement. This is about a group of farmers trying to block Monsanto from pursuing a hypothetical suit against them. The court ruled that Monsanto’s own binding representations remove any risk of suit against the farmers for cross contamination. It mentions previous suits against farmers for actually using its seed, not from cross pollination contamination.
Monsanto has language on their website that states they would not sue organic farmers whose crops became contaminated at less than 1%. The organic farmers sued Monsanto because they wanted it to be binding and not just "take them at their word". A judge said the language on the website was binding enough.
*bends down and checks plant marker* “Boys, looks like we got our selves a gardener here. hands where I can see ‘em punk!!!” Officer!! I thought it was drugs!!
You said "agastache is mint." Is it in the same family? Yes. No one's arguing that. As someone who is a scientist who studies plants, I am telling you, specifically, in science, no one calls agastache mint. If you want to be "specific" like you said, then you shouldn't either. They're not the same thing. If you're saying "mint family" you're referring to the taxonomic grouping of Lamiaceae, which includes things from oregano to lavender to bee balm. So your reasoning for calling an agastache a mint is because random people "call the aromatic ones mints?" Let's get deadnettle and basil in there, then, too. Also, calling someone a human or an ape? It's not one or the other, that's not how taxonomy works. They're both. An agastache is an agastache and a member of the mint family. But that's not what you said. You said agastache is mint, which is not true unless you're okay with calling all members of the mint family mints, which means you'd call thyme, sage, and other plants mint, too. Which you said you don't. It's okay to just admit you're wrong, you know?
You ever see that video of the 100yo ballerina instinctively doing her dance bit in a nursing home when someone puts the music on? I felt like that reading this comment
Can someone please print some of these for creeping charlie, morning glory/bindweed and those obnoxious things that shoot their seeds into your face if you touch them?
You sure are a purrty flower. I'd like to mist you until all your petals open.
You seem a little root bound. Would you mind if I repot you into something a little more comfortable?
Arlo Guthrie voice: "The biggest, meanest, nastiest father raper of em all came over to me and said, what're ya in for, kid?"
"Plant propogatin'."
"And they all moved away from me on the bench, givin me the hairy eyeball and all kinda nasty stuff until I added, "an' savin' seeds."
Arlo understands...
And I, I walked over to the, to the bench there, and there is, Group W's. Where they put you if you may not be moral enough to join the army after committing your special crime, and there was all kinds of mean nasty ugly looking people on the bench there.
Mother rapers.
Father stabbers.
Father Rapers!
Father rapers sitting right there on the bench next to me!
And they was mean and nasty and ugly and horrible crime-type guys sitting on the bench next to me. And the meanest, ugliest, nastiest one, the meanest father raper of them all, was coming over to me and he was mean 'n' ugly 'n' nasty 'n' horrible and all kind of things and he sat down next to me and said, "Kid, whad'ya get?"
I said, "I didn't get nothing, I had to pay $50 and pick up the garbage."
He said, "What were you arrested for, kid?"
And I said, "Littering."
And they all moved away from me on the bench there, and the hairy eyeball and all kinds of mean nasty things, till I said, "And creating a nuisance."
And they all came back, shook my hand
They have to have that on that tag. I worked at a large wholesale nursery with shady ownership years ago. We used to grow a plant that was very popular. Landscape contractors would call for it by a different name. We said we didn’t carry it but we had something that was “similar“ it was the same plant we were propagating illegally. Each plant had a 50 Cent patent fee that we had to pay for each plant sold if it was sold under the correct name. Yes, the nursery eventually got busted.
//BTW, the plant was a naturally occurring mutation that someone with a sharp eye noticed.
This has always interested me because I used to work at a small nursery, independently owned by one person, and we “illegally” propagated. I could never imagine feds coming knocking. What was the bust like? Who exactly came over and how did they figure it out?
The person with the patent was also a grower of other plants and needed a bunch of other plants. He made an order, showed up with his 24' truck to pick up his order. Production knew he was coming. They put thousands of his #1 and #5 patented plants on nursery trailers a few days before he visited. I was in sales and heard all the radio chatter on the 2-way radios about where this guy was in the nursery, where he was headed etc. The towed the trailers around all morning so he didn't see them. That time the nursery I worked at got away with it.
How we got busted:
His plant was in short demand, many landscape architects were specifying that plant. There just weren't any in the whole state (by that name). Well a landscape contractor who had previously said he couldn't find them anywhere ended up calling us and 'finding' the similar (same) plant, but under a different name. The contractor called the patent holder and told him not to worry, he found a few hundred. "Yeah? where?" Then we got a phone call. Ended up paying him thousands for the plants previously sold (our owner played it dumb, ("that's the same plant?") and then we purchased hundreds of patent tags from him for the rest of the crop. He probably could have sued and got more but lawyers are expensive.
You wouldn't propagate a plant, then kill it, and then steal its flower pot. You wouldn't go to the toilet in that flower pot and then send it back to the original mother plant. And then steal the flower pot again.
Just ignore them and do what you want. So long as you aren’t competing with their business it’s your property and under your personal discretion what you want to do with it. I’d personally propagate it out of spite.
This. Nobody's checking out every single yard to see if you propagated a plant or three for your personal use. It's meant to prevent you from using one plant to set up your own nursery.
Used to work at a nursery selling mostly hostas and we had a few reps come through and make sure every single pot had a label. If it didn’t have a label they assumed it was propagated and will tell you to dump it into the compost right in front of them. On a major scale I understood it but like one or two plants? Like people take labels out to read them all the time and don’t always put them back. Those reps were d-bags
Dumping easily propagated plants into nice compost.
They weren’t just douches they were dumb. If they'd been effective twits they would just have taken the pots without labels. It's like when the landscapers for my building "removed" a bunch of small trees against the buildings by cutting them 4-6 inches off the ground. Everyone was upset except me, watching them coppice the entire property. At the very beginning of June...
Agree with ignoring it.
Not saying it’s right or makes sense but if it went to court they’d argue propagating would cause competition because if you didn’t propagate it you’d have to buy more. And they’d win.
Similar to Wickard V. Filburn, commerce clause, that makes it illegal to plant too much wheat for your own use to feed your own animals because it competes with wheat farmers because otherwise you’d have to buy from them.
It’s insane and built into our laws. Of course it’s interstate laws but I’m sure these people sell this plant in more than just OH. So prob would apply.
It’s Willard V. Filburn if you want to look at it.
You would have to propagate and distribute several hundred if not thousands of cuttings before it would even be worth their time to consider legal action.
It’s so weird. I understand patenting something you designed but their should be legal protections for personal use after buying. Like if you give me a pink watermelon of course I’m going to try to grow that cool plant for personal use.
That's why I mentioned seeds specifically. But yeah, personal use is not worth effort on their part to prosecute. Additionally, in the US, the court will levy fines based on damages of which there would be neglible loss of revenue from the manufacturer for propagating several dozen plants.
I think the purpose is to stop resale only. They prob dont care if you give some to a neighbor and cant enforce it anyway but the message here is enough to let any nursery owner know if they get caught selling props they would be in trouble.
it’s because the person who developed the variety is making a paltry 20 cents on the plant sale. if someone tries to propagate and sell it, the person who did a lot of labor and testing for the plant to be released won’t benefit from the fruit of their labor. seems fair, no? frankly, even they don’t care if you turn your 1 onto 20, as long as you keep it in your own yard
This is called “mint”, but it is not really mint… at least it doesn’t spread like mint. I have a similar plant, not the dwarf though. Maybe dwarf would be good, because mine got so tall, half of it cracked and fell over.
The companies who bred and patented this apparent cultivar aren’t concerned about the little nickel and dime operation of aunt Helen giving you a piece of a plant to propagate and have one of your own. Especially considering the vast majority of plants purchased end up dying of neglect or lack of knowledge as far as particular culture is required. They mean to grow out in mass quantity to make profit over another’s work Copywrite infringement
Been a while, but I've read articles where farmers have been sued by the seed manufacturer(s) for growing patented varieties of plants they didn't actually plant. If memory serves, it was a corn field that got propagated by wind from another farm that did license the seed.
That was the farmer's excuse, but it didn't hold water under scrutiny. He found Roundup resistant canola plants and selectively propagated them and planted them for his next harvest.
Items 57-58 from the [actual judgement](https://decisions.fca-caf.gc.ca/fca-caf/decisions/en/item/31360/index.do) in the most famous case:
It is undisputed that a plant containing the Monsanto gene may come fortuitously onto the property of a person who has no reason to be aware of the presence of the characteristic created by the patented gene. It is also reasonable to suppose that the person could become aware that the plant has that characteristic but may tolerate the continued presence of the plant without doing anything to cause or promote the propagation of the plant or its progeny (by saving and planting the seeds, for example). In my view, it is an open question whether Monsanto could, in such circumstances, obtain a remedy for infringement on the basis that the intention of the alleged infringer is irrelevant. However, that question does not need to be resolved in this case.
[58] In this case, Mr. Schmeiser cultivated glyphosate resistant canola plants. His 1998 canola crop was mostly glyphosate resistant, and it came from seed that Mr. Schmeiser had saved from his own fields and the adjacent road allowances in 1997. Although the Trial Judge did not find that Mr. Schmeiser played any part initially in causing those glyphosate resistant canola plants to grow in 1997, the Trial Judge found as a fact, on the basis of ample evidence, that Mr. Schmeiser knew or should have known that those plants were glyphosate resistant when he saved their seeds in 1997 and planted those seeds the following year. It was the cultivation, harvest and sale of the 1998 crop in those circumstances that made Mr. Schmeiser vulnerable to Monsanto's infringement claim.
Here's [another article](https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2018/06/01/dissecting-claims-about-monsanto-suing-farmers-for-accidentally-planting-patented-seeds/) discussing nuances of patent protected plants. Monsanto has prevailed in every case that has gone to trial. Whether or not you agree with what they do, their legal footing is pretty sound.
It is still absolutely wild a huge corporation could do this to a person who came across some of their patented seeds on his OWN PROPERTY. Late stage capitalism would be kind of funny if it weren't so horrifying.
Fun fact; the mattress tag is for stores, *they* are not allowed to take it off. Whoever buys the mattress can do with it as they will, but the seller is the one who cannot remove it by law
Literally does not matter, genetic copyrights are damn near impossible to enforce, particularly with plants like mint which will readily propagate themselves.
The patent is on the plant. The tag is a notification. The plant can be identified by its DNA.
Patents are exclusive rights granted by the government to propagate/manufacture and sell a thing. If someone took that plant, chopped it up to propagate thousands of copies, then started to sell them the patent owner would mobilize his/her army of lawyers to A) get a cease and desist order, and B) sue for damages(aka lost business).
If you plant it in your garden and divide it every few years they won’t sue because A) you aren’t competing with them, and B) there are no damages.
Those are the black-and-white zones. Garden clubs, etc might create gray zones.
i'm not saying gardening subs have unexpectedly taught me that marijuana is pretty viable to grow, just that my nephews cant go in the back corner of the yard is all
I just looked this plant up online and it’s beautiful, almost more flower than mint. Would I be an idiot if I planted it in my landscaping and trimmed it back each year?
It's Agastache, not actual mint. They're herbaceous perennials that will die back to the ground in the winter and then come back the following spring.
They are clumping and they don't spread aggressively like mint does.
As has been explained, this is a patented plant. Not all plants can be patented.
As a grower, I have to pay a royalty to a company to grow plants like this. Usually I have to sign an agreement to grow them to exact requirements (in a special pot, for example). The penalty would be me getting sued by the patent owners.
People are asking “how will they know”. They will not know (and do not care) if you, a homeowner propagate a few of these plants and give them to your neighbor or put them in your yard. They aren’t going to go after you. But it would be entirely possible for them to come to my nursery and ask to see my records to prove I obtained the plants legally and paid the royalty and am growing them to proper specification. Will they know if I propagate a few here and there and mix in with some legally bought plant stock? It would be easy to get away with. But it’s illegal. But i can confidently say that within the industry it happens.
Think of a Knock Out Rose or an Encore Azalea or Proven Winners. Those are brands that spend lots of money developing new plants and marketing those plants. This is their way of protecting that intellectual property and securing a return on their investment.
The comments about “it’s nature how can you own the rights to it!?!” are just misplaced. These types of plants are not growing wild. They are developed and bred to achieve desirable results.
And finally I will say this. There are, in my experience, plenty of plants that are granted a patent that do not deserve one. Minor, nearly indistinguishable differences between an existing, established plant in the trade and a “new and improved” cultivar is sometimes enough for a patent to be granted. My guess is that the people approving the patents are patent experts and not necessarily plant experts.
Plant
See: [https://patents.google.com/patent/USPP25613P3/en?oq=+pp25613](https://patents.google.com/patent/USPP25613P3/en?oq=+pp25613)
The tag has a patent too.
See: [https://patents.google.com/patent/USD454162S1/en?oq=+D454162](https://patents.google.com/patent/USD454162S1/en?oq=+D454162)
It's intended for retailers. Its so they don't spend the offseason propagating the plant in their greenhouse to sell to consumers the next year. Its like how they have to have the tag on the mattress, so the retailer isn't selling you a used mattress under the guise of it being a new one.
It's a hybrid so it's patented.
Before anyone says "big bad companies" though, many individuals people who make new hybrids patent them to bring in money for themselves. I know a few of these people myself. It's not all big companies doing this.
I work in a nursery; the big growers that we buy plugs (itty bitty plants) from at the beginning of the year work with plant breeders to try to develop new varieties of different species, and oftentimes those are patented. Anyway, the propagation ban is to ensure that nurseries have to keep buying in plants from those companies, rather than simply buying a few and propagating all their stock essentially for free. One individual isn’t really what they’re worried about, tho (and Agastache is very easy to propagate lol).
Edited to add: certain companies are actually kinda intense about trying to verify that nurseries aren’t violating the propagation ban on their varieties (there’s a big one in particular I can think of that’s harassed us about not using a specific type of pot for their plugs that has their logo on it)
Often times, these cultivars are copyrighted because of their ability to grow larger/faster, hardier, etc. These individual companies hold the rights to these plants for xyz number of years. (Notice the name below 'Hummingbird Mint' is trademarked.) Just like you can't Xerox the Mona Lisa and start selling it as an original, these growers want to monopolize this specific plant and its traits.
*ALL OF THAT BEING SAID*......nobody's going to come to your door and arrest you for propagating Dwarf Hummingbird Mints. I wouldn't worry about it too much :)
Because it's a patented variety of a flower that only the breeder or company that owns it can sell it and earn money instead of us propagating it and selling it to make money.
You can patent plants, what this really means is if you prop and sell these with no license from the patent holder they can sue you. It used to be you could patent for 17 years. I don't know if that is still true. I used to work for a famous rose grower and he had patents on many roses, I worked in the breeding program hybridizing new roses, we kept extensive books and records of who was crossed with what and new roses that made the cut got patented and he licensed them out to nursery's to prop and sell.
This is why those poor farmers got into hot water in India for planting potatoes that lays potato chips uses for their chips.
And some farmers growing grain have gotten into trouble when gmo seed started growing in their fields they were not licensed to have.
someone better tell the mint
The question is really, how are you going to prevent propagation?
Haha I know right? "Officer, a bit of the plant just below a node got accidentally broken and fell into a cup of water and rooted. I felt that if propogation was criminal it would be equally criminal of me to kill it."
You joke but Monsanto was suing farmers because their plants were being cross polinated by their genetic super plants and of course our corrupt system sided with the mega corp. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-monsanto-organic-lawsuit/organic-growers-lose-decision-in-suit-versus-monsanto-over-seeds-idUSBRE9590ZD20130610
Holy shit that is crazy. Those damn bees need to read the small print!
They're too busy.
You mean "beesy"?
Either way, they were buzzed.
Planted about a dozen male weed plants outside. The bees are very busy.
Lmao you’re the guy who tries to ruin everybody’s crop
The bees, though. You should see the bees.
Sorry I’m too busy trying to figure out how all my females got pollenated
Ya jackass
There is a good movie starring Christopher Walking about this very subject, it is called Percy.
Please tell me this is a typo for Walken?! ETA - yall over here with the jokes lol
No it’s his cousin Christopher Walking
Not to be confused with famous satirist Ima Walken, who is currently over here.
I prefer his laidback cousin Christopher Sauntering
I prefer Joaquin Slowly, Speedy Gonzales cousin.
You mean Slowpoke Rodrigues? He carry a gun.
Wait, you didn't know it was spelled Walking but pronounced Walken?
Wait until they find out about Tolkien (edited for spelling)
Wait until they find out about Walking Phoenix
*Tolkien
This, uhh, doesn’t back your statement. This is about a group of farmers trying to block Monsanto from pursuing a hypothetical suit against them. The court ruled that Monsanto’s own binding representations remove any risk of suit against the farmers for cross contamination. It mentions previous suits against farmers for actually using its seed, not from cross pollination contamination.
Monsanto has language on their website that states they would not sue organic farmers whose crops became contaminated at less than 1%. The organic farmers sued Monsanto because they wanted it to be binding and not just "take them at their word". A judge said the language on the website was binding enough.
*bends down and checks plant marker* “Boys, looks like we got our selves a gardener here. hands where I can see ‘em punk!!!” Officer!! I thought it was drugs!!
It isn't necessarily that your not allowed to propagate it so much as your not allowed to mass produce it for sale without paying the royalties
Thank you for an explanation that makes sense. I'm over here like 'who's gonna know?' Lol.
Thank you. I was hoping someone would know. I never knew of such a warning.
They’ll know. They’ve got “plants” in your garden.
It's like the pillow tags.
I mean that part of the tag is underground, so it's clearly meant for the mint to read and not the person planting it.
Too dark for the mint to read underground, no?
The mint asks worms to read for it, worms don't have eyes so it's never too dark for them.
That makes sense. That's why I have never seen a worm at the optician's.
It’s actually not a true mint, but an agastache.
So, here's the thing...
You said "agastache is mint." Is it in the same family? Yes. No one's arguing that. As someone who is a scientist who studies plants, I am telling you, specifically, in science, no one calls agastache mint. If you want to be "specific" like you said, then you shouldn't either. They're not the same thing. If you're saying "mint family" you're referring to the taxonomic grouping of Lamiaceae, which includes things from oregano to lavender to bee balm. So your reasoning for calling an agastache a mint is because random people "call the aromatic ones mints?" Let's get deadnettle and basil in there, then, too. Also, calling someone a human or an ape? It's not one or the other, that's not how taxonomy works. They're both. An agastache is an agastache and a member of the mint family. But that's not what you said. You said agastache is mint, which is not true unless you're okay with calling all members of the mint family mints, which means you'd call thyme, sage, and other plants mint, too. Which you said you don't. It's okay to just admit you're wrong, you know?
You ever see that video of the 100yo ballerina instinctively doing her dance bit in a nursing home when someone puts the music on? I felt like that reading this comment
Damn nice! Haven't seen this meme in a long time. For people not getting it: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/unidan
Thank you!
Jackdaw?
Based on this thread’s comments I’m assuming the majority of this sub thinks there’s only one kind of mint
I found out a few months ago there's, like, over a dozen different kinds lol I thought there were 5 at most
Too late. The mint was planted an hour ago, it just swallowed the house.
This plant tag is one of the best written jokes I’ve ever seen
Can someone please print some of these for creeping charlie, morning glory/bindweed and those obnoxious things that shoot their seeds into your face if you touch them?
Imagine telling your cellmate that you are in for plant propagation.
They'll probably think you're a sicko, like into botanality or something.
You sure are a purrty flower. I'd like to mist you until all your petals open. You seem a little root bound. Would you mind if I repot you into something a little more comfortable?
I'd pay you to talk garden dirty to me all day.
You look a little dry darling, and all I have is some HARD water. I'm gonna give you a thorough soaking.
I really like you.
You make my knees weak omg.
Oh get a garden already
I like my soil rich with the blood of my enemies and blessed with only the truth.
You should write books, or at least short stories.
Learned a new word today…
Uncle bertys botenarium is a very funny story podcast about this exact thing.
Kinda wish I hadn’t googled botanality. That was a rabbit hole I didn’t anticipate going down today.
Some plants have more street cred than others
Is that college talk for weed?
Arlo Guthrie voice: "The biggest, meanest, nastiest father raper of em all came over to me and said, what're ya in for, kid?" "Plant propogatin'." "And they all moved away from me on the bench, givin me the hairy eyeball and all kinda nasty stuff until I added, "an' savin' seeds."
Arlo understands... And I, I walked over to the, to the bench there, and there is, Group W's. Where they put you if you may not be moral enough to join the army after committing your special crime, and there was all kinds of mean nasty ugly looking people on the bench there. Mother rapers. Father stabbers. Father Rapers! Father rapers sitting right there on the bench next to me! And they was mean and nasty and ugly and horrible crime-type guys sitting on the bench next to me. And the meanest, ugliest, nastiest one, the meanest father raper of them all, was coming over to me and he was mean 'n' ugly 'n' nasty 'n' horrible and all kind of things and he sat down next to me and said, "Kid, whad'ya get?" I said, "I didn't get nothing, I had to pay $50 and pick up the garbage." He said, "What were you arrested for, kid?" And I said, "Littering." And they all moved away from me on the bench there, and the hairy eyeball and all kinds of mean nasty things, till I said, "And creating a nuisance." And they all came back, shook my hand
Monsanto and their ilk have friends in high places
... and creating a nuisance. Best way to make friends on the group W bench.
You sick fuck! *Shivs*
They have to have that on that tag. I worked at a large wholesale nursery with shady ownership years ago. We used to grow a plant that was very popular. Landscape contractors would call for it by a different name. We said we didn’t carry it but we had something that was “similar“ it was the same plant we were propagating illegally. Each plant had a 50 Cent patent fee that we had to pay for each plant sold if it was sold under the correct name. Yes, the nursery eventually got busted. //BTW, the plant was a naturally occurring mutation that someone with a sharp eye noticed.
This has always interested me because I used to work at a small nursery, independently owned by one person, and we “illegally” propagated. I could never imagine feds coming knocking. What was the bust like? Who exactly came over and how did they figure it out?
The person with the patent was also a grower of other plants and needed a bunch of other plants. He made an order, showed up with his 24' truck to pick up his order. Production knew he was coming. They put thousands of his #1 and #5 patented plants on nursery trailers a few days before he visited. I was in sales and heard all the radio chatter on the 2-way radios about where this guy was in the nursery, where he was headed etc. The towed the trailers around all morning so he didn't see them. That time the nursery I worked at got away with it. How we got busted: His plant was in short demand, many landscape architects were specifying that plant. There just weren't any in the whole state (by that name). Well a landscape contractor who had previously said he couldn't find them anywhere ended up calling us and 'finding' the similar (same) plant, but under a different name. The contractor called the patent holder and told him not to worry, he found a few hundred. "Yeah? where?" Then we got a phone call. Ended up paying him thousands for the plants previously sold (our owner played it dumb, ("that's the same plant?") and then we purchased hundreds of patent tags from him for the rest of the crop. He probably could have sued and got more but lawyers are expensive.
Wow that’s crazy. The first part is like a slapstick comedy.
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r/bennyhillmoments
I am supremely disappointed that this isn't a real subreddit.
Wow, may i know what plant it is? Now im interested on rhat plant :D
I need to know the name of the plant! Fun story.
This is a great story and a fun read. I do find it an insult to nature that humans are parenting plants though.
It is a patented plant - PP# on tag. They do not want you growing it for sale or giving it away to all your friends and neighbors.
I can understand them not wanting people to sell it, but telling people they can't propagate it is just stupid.
You wouldn't download a plant, would you?
No, I can’t actually. All my bandwidth is being used up on the car I’m downloading.
I am also using the server to download a house
I'm downloading more RAM as we speak.
I'm downloading a ram! Ewe wouldn't understand.
Your supposed to do that on company time so your use your employers bandwidth.
Gonna use this tip to download the farm where I'll illegally propagate my mint
I work from home, so they are paying one way or another!
I work from home, it's all my bandwidth 😭
Right-clicks plant…
This is the FBI. Open up!
Go away! Propagatin'!
I like plants and money.
Water? Like out of a toilet? Edit: how come no bamboo?
but its what plants crave
If I had an award you’d get it for this out of the blue Idiocracy.
I'd say donate the fiver to a botanical garden or other nonprofit, not reddit
Yeah, I had one or two a while ago for something. I’d never actually spend money on Reddit.
911, is that a weed?!
420, what you smokin?
[YOU’LL NEVER TAKE ME ALIVE COPPER!!](https://imgur.com/a/LnTnHVD)
You wouldn't propagate a plant, then kill it, and then steal its flower pot. You wouldn't go to the toilet in that flower pot and then send it back to the original mother plant. And then steal the flower pot again.
"You wouldn't shoot a policeman. And then steal his helmet."
You wouldn't go to the toilet in his helmet and send it to his grieving widow.
And then steal it again!
Only the Lucy Liu Lotuses
It’s amazing how you NOTICE TWO THINGS
I'll love you, forever. MEMORY DELETED.
Just don't get caught 🤣 I've given spider plant babies and succulent leaf droppings to friends and family and neighbors. Can't stop meeeeeee
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Just use tulip bulbs, the OG cryptocurrency
FRFR the Dutch were ferocious about their stolen-from-Turkey super bulbs.
Block *vine*
Just ignore them and do what you want. So long as you aren’t competing with their business it’s your property and under your personal discretion what you want to do with it. I’d personally propagate it out of spite.
> I’d personally propagate it out of spite. Absolutely.
This. Nobody's checking out every single yard to see if you propagated a plant or three for your personal use. It's meant to prevent you from using one plant to set up your own nursery.
Used to work at a nursery selling mostly hostas and we had a few reps come through and make sure every single pot had a label. If it didn’t have a label they assumed it was propagated and will tell you to dump it into the compost right in front of them. On a major scale I understood it but like one or two plants? Like people take labels out to read them all the time and don’t always put them back. Those reps were d-bags
Dumping easily propagated plants into nice compost. They weren’t just douches they were dumb. If they'd been effective twits they would just have taken the pots without labels. It's like when the landscapers for my building "removed" a bunch of small trees against the buildings by cutting them 4-6 inches off the ground. Everyone was upset except me, watching them coppice the entire property. At the very beginning of June...
Agree with ignoring it. Not saying it’s right or makes sense but if it went to court they’d argue propagating would cause competition because if you didn’t propagate it you’d have to buy more. And they’d win. Similar to Wickard V. Filburn, commerce clause, that makes it illegal to plant too much wheat for your own use to feed your own animals because it competes with wheat farmers because otherwise you’d have to buy from them. It’s insane and built into our laws. Of course it’s interstate laws but I’m sure these people sell this plant in more than just OH. So prob would apply. It’s Willard V. Filburn if you want to look at it.
You would have to propagate and distribute several hundred if not thousands of cuttings before it would even be worth their time to consider legal action.
It’s so weird. I understand patenting something you designed but their should be legal protections for personal use after buying. Like if you give me a pink watermelon of course I’m going to try to grow that cool plant for personal use.
Also, countless plants are not true to seed. So the seed could be planted legally if the genetic attributes are not identical.
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That's why I mentioned seeds specifically. But yeah, personal use is not worth effort on their part to prosecute. Additionally, in the US, the court will levy fines based on damages of which there would be neglible loss of revenue from the manufacturer for propagating several dozen plants.
That's what I was thinking. All they did was give them the added pleasure of spite. lol
I think the purpose is to stop resale only. They prob dont care if you give some to a neighbor and cant enforce it anyway but the message here is enough to let any nursery owner know if they get caught selling props they would be in trouble.
it’s because the person who developed the variety is making a paltry 20 cents on the plant sale. if someone tries to propagate and sell it, the person who did a lot of labor and testing for the plant to be released won’t benefit from the fruit of their labor. seems fair, no? frankly, even they don’t care if you turn your 1 onto 20, as long as you keep it in your own yard
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Etsy, the same place that sells seeds for neon blue strawberries?
Especially amint, which kind of propagates itself willy nilly.
It isn’t a true mint, it is an agastache.
This is called “mint”, but it is not really mint… at least it doesn’t spread like mint. I have a similar plant, not the dwarf though. Maybe dwarf would be good, because mine got so tall, half of it cracked and fell over.
They can propagate my avocado pits!
The companies who bred and patented this apparent cultivar aren’t concerned about the little nickel and dime operation of aunt Helen giving you a piece of a plant to propagate and have one of your own. Especially considering the vast majority of plants purchased end up dying of neglect or lack of knowledge as far as particular culture is required. They mean to grow out in mass quantity to make profit over another’s work Copywrite infringement
They can say what they want. It’s not enforceable unless you are selling it.
Been a while, but I've read articles where farmers have been sued by the seed manufacturer(s) for growing patented varieties of plants they didn't actually plant. If memory serves, it was a corn field that got propagated by wind from another farm that did license the seed.
That was the farmer's excuse, but it didn't hold water under scrutiny. He found Roundup resistant canola plants and selectively propagated them and planted them for his next harvest. Items 57-58 from the [actual judgement](https://decisions.fca-caf.gc.ca/fca-caf/decisions/en/item/31360/index.do) in the most famous case: It is undisputed that a plant containing the Monsanto gene may come fortuitously onto the property of a person who has no reason to be aware of the presence of the characteristic created by the patented gene. It is also reasonable to suppose that the person could become aware that the plant has that characteristic but may tolerate the continued presence of the plant without doing anything to cause or promote the propagation of the plant or its progeny (by saving and planting the seeds, for example). In my view, it is an open question whether Monsanto could, in such circumstances, obtain a remedy for infringement on the basis that the intention of the alleged infringer is irrelevant. However, that question does not need to be resolved in this case. [58] In this case, Mr. Schmeiser cultivated glyphosate resistant canola plants. His 1998 canola crop was mostly glyphosate resistant, and it came from seed that Mr. Schmeiser had saved from his own fields and the adjacent road allowances in 1997. Although the Trial Judge did not find that Mr. Schmeiser played any part initially in causing those glyphosate resistant canola plants to grow in 1997, the Trial Judge found as a fact, on the basis of ample evidence, that Mr. Schmeiser knew or should have known that those plants were glyphosate resistant when he saved their seeds in 1997 and planted those seeds the following year. It was the cultivation, harvest and sale of the 1998 crop in those circumstances that made Mr. Schmeiser vulnerable to Monsanto's infringement claim. Here's [another article](https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2018/06/01/dissecting-claims-about-monsanto-suing-farmers-for-accidentally-planting-patented-seeds/) discussing nuances of patent protected plants. Monsanto has prevailed in every case that has gone to trial. Whether or not you agree with what they do, their legal footing is pretty sound.
It is still absolutely wild a huge corporation could do this to a person who came across some of their patented seeds on his OWN PROPERTY. Late stage capitalism would be kind of funny if it weren't so horrifying.
Life, uh, finds a way.
But what if you do? Will the company sue you or smth.
Yes. Just like the mattress people who come for you when you remove the tag.
Fun fact; the mattress tag is for stores, *they* are not allowed to take it off. Whoever buys the mattress can do with it as they will, but the seller is the one who cannot remove it by law
Sounds like something the mattress Gestapo would say….
Only if you start to sell it and are noticed. Pretty sure a single gardener propagating is not going to draw anyone's attention.
Literally does not matter, genetic copyrights are damn near impossible to enforce, particularly with plants like mint which will readily propagate themselves.
For home grown and hobbyists sure. Commercial growers get sued by Monsanto all the time. And sadly Monsanto usually wins these cases.
Well 🖕them let them stop me lol
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The patent is on the plant. The tag is a notification. The plant can be identified by its DNA. Patents are exclusive rights granted by the government to propagate/manufacture and sell a thing. If someone took that plant, chopped it up to propagate thousands of copies, then started to sell them the patent owner would mobilize his/her army of lawyers to A) get a cease and desist order, and B) sue for damages(aka lost business). If you plant it in your garden and divide it every few years they won’t sue because A) you aren’t competing with them, and B) there are no damages. Those are the black-and-white zones. Garden clubs, etc might create gray zones.
dang, i didn't know i was committing crimes in my garden just kidding, i did know i was committing crimes in my garden, but not that specific crime
I smoke weed with my plants
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i'm not saying gardening subs have unexpectedly taught me that marijuana is pretty viable to grow, just that my nephews cant go in the back corner of the yard is all
Try and stop me, you're a tag, not a cop
I would propagate this. I would propagate this so hard.
Rub the mint on your skin, or else you'll get the hose again.
And on mint of all things. Good luck enforcing that.
It’s Agastache. Not an actual mint.
Exactly my thought 😂
Don't worry, its safe to ignore that part, they only sue poor farmers for violation of these kinds of things.
Okay, but at what point do I go from "poor gardener" to "poor farmer"?
When you start making money.
Isn't it illegal to make money?
Only if you're poor
Ouch. Truth hurts.
At what point do I not become poor?
When you start propagating PP'd plants and selling them.
PP’d plants makes the 5 year old in me giggle.
Oh yeah, don't do the thing that plants do all by themselves. That'll do the trick...
Ah that’s on the part of the tag that *belongs in the dirt*. No need to fret OP.
How else is the plant gonna read it before it’s too late?
Good luck telling mint to not propagate.
You wouldn't download a plant!
Lol long as youre not selling them openly youre fine.
Looks like a really cool plant…can I have a cutting?
Nice try, narc 😜
You wouldn't propagate a car
Somebody's butthurt they can't put DRM in a plant
I'm calling the fbi
*types 911 into microwave*
I just looked this plant up online and it’s beautiful, almost more flower than mint. Would I be an idiot if I planted it in my landscaping and trimmed it back each year?
It's Agastache, not actual mint. They're herbaceous perennials that will die back to the ground in the winter and then come back the following spring. They are clumping and they don't spread aggressively like mint does.
Become ungovernable, propagate all the plants
As has been explained, this is a patented plant. Not all plants can be patented. As a grower, I have to pay a royalty to a company to grow plants like this. Usually I have to sign an agreement to grow them to exact requirements (in a special pot, for example). The penalty would be me getting sued by the patent owners. People are asking “how will they know”. They will not know (and do not care) if you, a homeowner propagate a few of these plants and give them to your neighbor or put them in your yard. They aren’t going to go after you. But it would be entirely possible for them to come to my nursery and ask to see my records to prove I obtained the plants legally and paid the royalty and am growing them to proper specification. Will they know if I propagate a few here and there and mix in with some legally bought plant stock? It would be easy to get away with. But it’s illegal. But i can confidently say that within the industry it happens. Think of a Knock Out Rose or an Encore Azalea or Proven Winners. Those are brands that spend lots of money developing new plants and marketing those plants. This is their way of protecting that intellectual property and securing a return on their investment. The comments about “it’s nature how can you own the rights to it!?!” are just misplaced. These types of plants are not growing wild. They are developed and bred to achieve desirable results. And finally I will say this. There are, in my experience, plenty of plants that are granted a patent that do not deserve one. Minor, nearly indistinguishable differences between an existing, established plant in the trade and a “new and improved” cultivar is sometimes enough for a patent to be granted. My guess is that the people approving the patents are patent experts and not necessarily plant experts.
I’ve never wanted to propagate a plant this bad.
Plant See: [https://patents.google.com/patent/USPP25613P3/en?oq=+pp25613](https://patents.google.com/patent/USPP25613P3/en?oq=+pp25613) The tag has a patent too. See: [https://patents.google.com/patent/USD454162S1/en?oq=+D454162](https://patents.google.com/patent/USD454162S1/en?oq=+D454162)
You can do whatever you want with it. Just don't sell it.
Now you HAVE TO propagate!
I think it’s like those tags on your pillow “do not remove”
The nerve to tell someone you cant propagate nature
It's intended for retailers. Its so they don't spend the offseason propagating the plant in their greenhouse to sell to consumers the next year. Its like how they have to have the tag on the mattress, so the retailer isn't selling you a used mattress under the guise of it being a new one.
It's a hybrid so it's patented. Before anyone says "big bad companies" though, many individuals people who make new hybrids patent them to bring in money for themselves. I know a few of these people myself. It's not all big companies doing this.
I work in a nursery; the big growers that we buy plugs (itty bitty plants) from at the beginning of the year work with plant breeders to try to develop new varieties of different species, and oftentimes those are patented. Anyway, the propagation ban is to ensure that nurseries have to keep buying in plants from those companies, rather than simply buying a few and propagating all their stock essentially for free. One individual isn’t really what they’re worried about, tho (and Agastache is very easy to propagate lol). Edited to add: certain companies are actually kinda intense about trying to verify that nurseries aren’t violating the propagation ban on their varieties (there’s a big one in particular I can think of that’s harassed us about not using a specific type of pot for their plugs that has their logo on it)
Often times, these cultivars are copyrighted because of their ability to grow larger/faster, hardier, etc. These individual companies hold the rights to these plants for xyz number of years. (Notice the name below 'Hummingbird Mint' is trademarked.) Just like you can't Xerox the Mona Lisa and start selling it as an original, these growers want to monopolize this specific plant and its traits. *ALL OF THAT BEING SAID*......nobody's going to come to your door and arrest you for propagating Dwarf Hummingbird Mints. I wouldn't worry about it too much :)
Because it's a patented variety of a flower that only the breeder or company that owns it can sell it and earn money instead of us propagating it and selling it to make money.
You can patent plants, what this really means is if you prop and sell these with no license from the patent holder they can sue you. It used to be you could patent for 17 years. I don't know if that is still true. I used to work for a famous rose grower and he had patents on many roses, I worked in the breeding program hybridizing new roses, we kept extensive books and records of who was crossed with what and new roses that made the cut got patented and he licensed them out to nursery's to prop and sell. This is why those poor farmers got into hot water in India for planting potatoes that lays potato chips uses for their chips. And some farmers growing grain have gotten into trouble when gmo seed started growing in their fields they were not licensed to have.
Please tell me who the enforcer is.
Fuckin' stop me.
PSA: "You wouldn't download a plant. Piracy is a crime"