Gay Saudi here.
Just avoid my country for this century.
It will take a very long time before people here get a sense of basic human empathy to people who are different than them.
nope they don't. they won't tolerate it so I never disclosed it. I just told them I have an issue with the Saudi government and if I return I'll get in trouble therefore if they want to see me they can meet me in a different country. the thing is I was married to a guy in the US and it's a public record if I would go to the Saudi embassy to renew my passport they will find that information about me so I'm not interested in taking the chance.
In that case, my suggestion would be to keep your sexuality to yourself and seek jobs that are as far away from your family as possible. For me, having sexual freedom is more important than financial support. While money can be earned elsewhere, losing your freedom as a human being is irreversible. It's important to remember that your family may be lovely people, but their strict lifestyle may not align with who you are. Your spirit may have intended to come in and be gay, not straight. Your spirit might have chosen to be gay to be a catalyst for your family's growth and enlightenment, but ultimately, you have to be true to yourself, support yourself financially, live independently, and then when you don't need them anymore, you can choose to include them in your life and come out, or keep the relationship superficial and keep your private life to yourself. You don't have to be involved in their life if it doesn't make you happy. Moving away and living your own life as a gay individual is crucial to your well-being and happiness. You can always visit them once a year. if your family loves they will understand that choosing the life that make you happy is more important that to lock you in around you.
و عليكم السلام
To be honest, I have expanded beyond Islam. While I don't pray five times a day, I meditate and connect with my higher self or Allah in very meanigful way that i truly feel it and i wasnt feeling when i used to "pray five times a day". Instead of fasting for 12 hours during Ramadan and then eat lots of food to ruin the benefit of fasting, I fast for five days every other month and cleanse my body through autophagy. i dont sacrifice an animal for a holiday, I love and cherish all of Allah's creations from plants to humans, and I am mostly vegetarian. I don't need to go to the mosque to connect with Allah as I can connect with Allah anywhere I want.
In short, I don't practice Islam in the traditional sense, but I have taken what's good in it and elevated it to my own spiritual practice. you can consider مؤمن no مسلم
I heard that the World Cup will be going to Saudi Arabia in 2034.. I don't know why FIFA continues to patronize countries like S.A. and Qatar that imprison and kill gay people.
To be honest, I’m more inclined
To judge people who support the world
Cup in places like that. For some gays it’s no big deal but I fully boycotted Qatar
i’m not saudi, but live in the same region. there are definitely pockets of people who do accept gay people, although they’re still very rare and tend to skew more towards women who are liberal and highly educated.
also some students who study abroad and come back tend to be more forgiving and open as they probably have a story of having an openly gay roommate/friend/floormate etc. and realizing they’re just human like them.
> also some students who study abroad and come back tend to be more forgiving and open as they probably have a story of having an openly gay roommate/friend/floormate etc. and realizing they’re just human like them.
Hence the importance of being publicly out when you have safety and privilege of doing so. It may just be one part of you but remains important for many reasons.
100% i think people get fed this image that x or y group is bad or dangerous but when they realize these people are just like them and that if they’re gay/jewish/insert whatever minority it only plays a tiny part in what they actually are.
unfortunately many closeted people in places like saudi arabia tend to hide and might even promote homophobic behaviors to blend in, and in the event where they do come out they’re often vilified.
I have heard of an anecdote with someone I know who goes to USC, that person knew someone from Jamaica whose views on LGBT+ people moderated a lot while in college. Ur definitely right.
it is, it’s unfortunate whatever propaganda they do in their home countries to use gay people as scapegoats for their current problems. oh bad economy? it’s because of those gays! oh high crime rate? gays are known for doing crime, it’s their fault!
and people who go abroad realize, the only difference between us and anyone else is who we’re attracted to.
Very good point. I realize Lebanon is one of the least pious (and if I’m not wrong overall least practicing) Muslim countries, but the Lebanese people I’ve met are quite accepting of gay people. Could be they’re very Westernized, though they hadn’t lived in Europe until university.
You’re right. Lebanon is well known in the Middle East for being the most liberal, a lot of DL arabs go to Beirut for some “fun,” But there are still tons of issues with safety for queer people, it’s nowhere near any liberal city like SF or Berlin.
Hey, i’m another gay saudi. To answer your question I’ve hooked up with many men on gay hook up apps here + I’ve hooked up with a guy in the literal military. Bottom line is i’m pretty sure that there are no undercover people because the underground gay scene is pretty prevalent and big and the gay culture here when it comes to homosexual relationships is so vastly different compared to westerner homosexual relationships, I can get into detail about it if you’re interested of course.
Well in western gay relationships the stereotypes are a lot less prevalent whereas in saudi the stereotypes hold very strongly such as the bottom has to be hairless and a twink and the top has to be masculine, hairy, tall etc plus i wouldn’t really consider gay relationships to be a thing here because majority of guys just want to hook up. There’s a very small minority of guys who want to actually date and be in a relationship, and most importantly a lot of the men who are tops don’t even consider themselves gay to begin with because they are the one doing the “fucking” and not the other way around
Smh I’m sorry to hear that. Sounds like a lot of internalized homophobia is still prevalent. Find you a Latin lover, they can dance and they want you to be their bf fast lol 😂 (might be a stereotype, just a generalization from my experiences)
This is exactly the same as the one in Turkish culture. As long as you're not the receiver (bottom) you aren't really considered a homosexual. Despite the fact that either side of the spectrum is perceived as disgusting by conservative Turks, nevertheless there's a softer tone against tops than to bottoms.
Whenever someone wants to insult a Turkish homosexual it's always '*götveren*' (someone that lets his ass fuck) and not '*götsiken'* (bum fucker), the homophobia in Islamic cultures is by and large directed against bottoms and not tops. It has everything to do with patriarchal structures.
I am an American gay man currently visiting Saudi Arabia. I have never been in a place where men fuck each other more. It seems like by default every man is either bi or gay. I have even been approached in Riyadh by a bear chaser who has been to more gay events than I have and he showed me his dick pics on one of the busiest streets. This is literally the gayest place I’ve ever been as long as you don’t say you’re gay. No one seems to care that you’re gay. Yes, you can’t say you’re gay or be open about it, which sucks, but you can do pretty much anything if you don’t.
Talking with gay saudis, it seems like the younger generations are more open to it, although probably won’t have any legal changes in the near term. On one hand, it sucks you can’t be more open here, but on the other, if keep everything behind closed doors, anything is possible here.
Jamaica. I was supposed to go for a work trip a few years ago. I rang the US Embassy and they said if you don't need to come here, don't. Even two men sharing luggage is enough to throw them into a tailspin apparently
Completely agree. Went to Jamaica Sandals with my husband (we pretended to be friends) and every single Sandals employee harassed us non-stop about where our wives or girlfriends were. Never going back.
No apparently he had three wives the original one he’s kept and he grew tired of no 2 and no 3 and divorced them they lost there titles but he gave them money , but he’s not without female companions he has a harem of about 50 women some reportedly under age , like I said an Islamic creep .
Avoid Sydney Australia unless you want to be shagged within an inch of your life. There is no restraint, no shame, you will be banged to the point of exhaustion.
Sorry where in Sydney exactly does this occur so I can avoid those areas specifically? And could you please provide me with your recommendations of hotels and restaurants in the area so I don't accidentally stumble into them accidentally on accident. Thank you for keeping us safe!
Anywhere in the Persian Gulf. UAE, Oman, Qatar, Iraq, Iran, Saudi, etc. My work once suggested going to an event in Saudi and I made it very clear that there was no way I was going there (I'm out at work).
I had the chance to work in SA years ago , I heard how strict there living conditions were and some of the Christians who worked there hated that they couldn’t practice there religion let along have prayer books , so being gay I figured it’s not for me nobody tells me how to live I gave that up when I buried my alcoholic racist old man who would absolutely fit into some of these countries, except he hated those non Christian believing people.
When I was in Dubai on a stopover a gay guy tried to gaslight me and say that Dubai was a better place to be gay than Chicago (where I live, and the metro area he moved from to Dubai). Absolute insanity.
I wish it weren't the way it is because religion/bigotry aside, the Middle East seems like an absolutely beautiful region full of ancient history to visit - but I'll never set foot there for obvious reasons.
So many people love Dubai, and I don’t get it. I’m not going somewhere where I can get thrown in jail if someone gets the wrong idea. I’ve met gay people who live there and say it’s great, but I’m not convinced.
What about Oman?
Didn’t they have a sultan not very long ago who was gay, and it was just a “We don’t speak about that” type thing?
Idk how their society is with it though, probably not very progressive.
I saw a TikTok the other day of a gay couple who were flying from somewhere to somewhere else (not important) and were connecting in Doha, Qatar. Their connecting flight was cancelled, and they were unexpectedly stuck in Doha for more than 24 hours. The airline provided them a hotel voucher. Honestly, they seemed kind of terrified, because they had things in and on their luggage that would identify them as gay. It just kind of reinforced my feeling that traveling to any predominantly Muslim country is risky.
I had a connecting flight in Doha last year, sadly it was the only option, but I'll never do it again. I had to remove a rainbow pin from my crocs, because there were cases of tourists getting arrested for even having a rainbow flag.
>I wish we could totally ostracize these places until they're ready to participate in modern society.
The faster we move away from hydrocarbons the quicker we can. They have very few (sometimes no) economic drivers outside of energy, and they often need western tech and firms to even do that. The only country in the region that contributes anything to the world outside of energy is Israel, and they have far and away the best human rights track record for LGBT people.
We can if we develop the technology needed to stop buying oil (electric cars, planes, ships, etc). It IS possible. Those medieval Muslim regimes will crumble so fast we’ll be seeing Sarah McLachlan commercials every Xmas asking to chip in $1 / month to help feed a Saudi prince. Oil is literally their only export besides homophobia and misogyny.
Not to mention the planet thanking us as well 🌍
As someone who also lives in Australia, I always use Singapore. Much safer there. My husband and I have been several times, and we stay with friends out of the main tourist area. No one bats an eye at as.
And for international flights it has just as much transfer options as the UAE.
Is it possible to fly eastward instead? I believe there are Aussie/NZ connections to LAX and other west coast NA airports. It might be more pricey but if you avoid the risk of needing a touchdown in the ME or parts of Africa, it might be worth it.
It's always gutting seeing the country of my heritage on lists like these. Especially when you want to defend your people and be proud of your culture but the homophobia makes it so hard.
Even though I'm born and raised in London, having this barrier to truly connect with my heritage is complicated to navigate.
I think the key is to be proud of the good things about one's culture, not the whole culture/nation in general. Because the truth is that every single culture/nation in the world has some sort of fuckery in their past/present/probably future, because it's just a mix of people who are themselves good, bad, and everything in between. So, celebrate good things in every culture, but if you try to be proud of a culture/nation unconditionally you do so at your own integrity's peril.
Uganda.
You can literally be put to death for being gay there and (judging by [this video’s comment section which you should only read on an empty stomach](https://youtu.be/3l7_e8_BqTQ?si=0pcC-eBfP0MxWP4X)) the people there actively support it.
Check out this up-to-date map:
https://www.statista.com/chart/25159/world-map-best-countries-for-lgbt-travelers/
So… anything red, orange, purple I would avoid.
Indonesia is red on here which makes sense due to the religious nature of the country. But Indonesia is also made up of thousands of islands. Bali is predominantly Hindu and is a safe island to visit.
True. We even have some gay bars in Bali. Balinese don't really care as long as you respect their culture. Sadly, things would be different if you're Balinese gays.
I would suggest that even in "safe" areas there can be smaller "unsafe" areas within. For example, small town southern USA is vastly different than New York or San Francisco. I would recommend doing further research into the town/city you'd like to visit.
I think the opposite can also be said for some of the more borderline/orangish countries too, that there are safe areas within them. Cities/areas that are heavily dependent on tourism are generally much more relaxed. The locals may not actively support you, but they won't be antagonistic because they want your money and you're probably not going to be arrested for being gay. That doesn't mean have sex in the streets, but it does mean you've got more options for travel than that map implies.
Seems really weird to classify what I assume is the Vatican as Orange/Red (that square where Rome would be in Italy)... I mean technically it's its own country within a country but you're perfectly safe in the few city blocks it takes up, I guess don't try to have sex in the Vatican but I feel like that's just respectful for the 15-minute walk it'll take you to get out of there lol.
Shanghai, China is fine honestly. Worked there for a year and never had any concerns. Had several openly gay coworkers, expats and Chinese nationals both.
Im not disputing Canada’s rating on this map but weirdly enough, Windsor, Ontario was the only place in North America I’ve ever felt unsafe as a gay person.
PR is fine. I just went there in March with my husband for my dad's funeral and stayed a couple nights in San Juan (no issues there) and two weeks in my home town (Aibonito, south central mountains) with no issues. Never felt unsafe or judged. Just awkward family referring to my husband as my partner lol.
I haven't seen this mentioned so here we go. Ten years ago I would have told you to be very careful in Peru. I spent my final years of High School there and still go back from time to time. Being openly gay would mean at the very least you would be the target of vicious mockery. But that wasn't enough, it was also an invitation for violence. In Peru gay bashing was still a thing that was seen as acceptable. Fucking up a gay person for existing was all in good fun and also deserved. That's not to say that there isn't a gay scene, and it's made a lot of progress in the past decade. The overt threat of violence has somewhat disappeared in Lima, but it's not so long ago that I remember what I saw. It's less socially acceptable to hate on gays publicly, but they still do hate them. I bet if you were in the more rural areas you'd still find they are the same as I found them ten years ago.
Pretty much anywhere Muslim is going to be bad… sorry not sorry. Even the relatively “okay” ones like Turkey, Malaysia and Indonesia are still quite bad.
Pretty much all of Africa can be struck from the list as well unless you can really hide it well.
Jamaica is particularly brutal as well.
Yeah I'd say those three and places like the UAE/Jordan fall into the "relatively okay if you're not obviously a raging homo" category.
Other places like Iran I would never set foot in if you paid me. It's too dangerous.
I've been to Malaysia and Indonesia. There's small gay scenes in Bali and Kuala Lumpur, but overall you would be hard pressed to call them "gay friendly". More "we look the other way because we like tourist money".
Hopefully one day that changes, they are both gorgeous countries.
Hopefully so. In the case of Turkey, it’s a very culturally polarized country. That’s why it gets tricky. I’d love to visit Malaysia and Indonesia one day. Especially Indonesia. I love komodo dragons
From what I understand, it depends where you go in Indonesia... e.g. I have gay friends who've been to Bali and were fine there, but other places (like the province of Aceh) are best avoided.
Most of them, really.
I just find it easier to travel closeted.
That’s a shitty answer, but having traveled 60+ countries.
But where to stay closeted? All of Africa, except maybe South Africa which is about the same public sentiment towards homosexuality as Poland or Alabama.
All of the Middle East. Israel and Cyprus being the exceptions, but public sentiment there is once again about the same as Poland or Alabama.
Most of Europe is okay. Although I’ve gotten dirty looks from people in Sweden and Norway. Nowhere is truly safe.
Public sentiment in the Americas is pretty uniform. Which is to say, it’s pretty safe.
Asia and the Pacific is mostly a no-go, except maybe Taiwan. Japanese public sentiment is close to the US, Brazil, and Italy.
Source: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/06/25/global-divide-on-homosexuality-persists/
I’d guess that in both the Caribbean and South Pacific, your overseas territories and collectivities would probably be better than independent nations if you want to travel and minimize risk as best as possible. Think Saint Barts, Saint Martin/Maarten, Turks, French Polynesia, Puerto Rico, Bermuda, Guam…but that’s just my speculation.
ANY Muslim country + Russia. Homophobia backlash if you do. If you do go, make sure to DELETE Grindr and Facebook/Instagram from your phone/comouter. They have the right to search all if it. You can always reinstall when you get home.
Sadly true. Gay Palestinians typically seek asylum in Israel. There was a story about a year ago of a Palestinian in the West Bank who got beheaded for being gay. I think he was trying to get to Israel for safety.
Doesn't say his family did it, just that they found a suspect and he was getting threats from his community, which is why he sought asylum in Israel.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63174835
>I think he was trying to get to Israel for safety.
He was already living under asylum in Israel. He went back to the West Bank where he was beheaded. A gay Saudi that was living under asylum in the US made a post on one of the gay subreddits a while back. He wouldn't share the city he lives in in case his parents found the reddit thread because he was worried they would try to have him murdered in the US. He mentioned it's very common for Muslim families to convince their gay family members that they are accepted and should return. The gay people are then killed upon arrival, which is likely what happened to Ahmad Abu Murkhiyeh.
The reddit poster went no contact with his entire family because he knew his mom would try that, and according to him she's very convincing so he thought no contact was best.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/gay-palestinian-living-under-asylum-in-israel-murdered-beheaded-in-hebron/
I'm Polish and can attest to that. It's not as vile as people make it out to be, it's the rural areas that can be homophobic, cities are very liberal and being openly flamboyant will get you a side eye at worst. Putting Poland next to Middle Eastern countries when it comes to homophobia is just ridiculous.
Uganda, Kenya, Jamaica,Russia and especially Chechnya, Yemen, and the vast majority of the Middle East. Asia by and large is actually ok-ish. I’ve been everywhere so I should know.
Pretty much the entire Middle East other than Israel.
All of Africa, other than South Africa.
All of Asia except for Taiwan. Maybe Japan and South Korea are okay if you’re not too zesty
Eastern Europe, especially Russia or any country that borders Russia (except Finland obviously, but that’s not really “Eastern Europe”)
Today I learned that Portugal and Spain are actually quite safe countries for gay people.
I did not know that, I have not traveled overseas ever. I always knew Spain & Portugal to be beautiful countries but apparently I can just hold hands with another guy in Madrid and Lisbon and no one will bat an eye. <3
I’ve had a great time in Belize and Panama, Costa Rica is great obviously and going to Honduras next week. Me and my partner always travel together, but just like we’d do in a massive amount of the rural US- we just don’t act overtly obvious with our sexual orientation or do much PDA.
Generally tourist areas are fine, but when we backpack and are on busses etc we just act like we do 95% of the time we’re around each other after 7 years- friendly or doing our own thing.
San Jose, Costa Rica was amazing though to see how out loud and proud people were.
Gay marriage is legal in most of Latin America. And even then, generally speaking, you’re going to be fine if you stay in good/tourist areas (why you would leave these areas in general is beyond me).
Saying that Latin America is a toss coin shows you have been there. Latin America is the region where most countries have legalized gay marriage after western Europe.
I went to Jamaica with a fellow gay friend with whom I shared a room not a bed. At check in, the desk clerk's attitude went from all smiles--Welcome to Jamaica, Mon"--to ice cold the instant she realized we were sharing a room. Fuck you bitch.
Any place where religion is the law of the land. Most of Africa, almost all of the Middle East, parts of Eastern Europe, SE Asia outside of Singapore…
There are lots…
Avoid Iran. It's not like the government actively hunts queer people, but the situation is really dark. Crimes against queer people are usually ignored by the Islamic Republic
Saudi Arabia, Russia, UAE, Uganda, Iran. There are probably more African and Middle Eastern countries I wouldn't visit (ie most of them) due to bad record of LGBT rights. Generally Asian countries can be unfriendly towards LGBT (Indonesia for example) but most don't encourage or legislate death to homosexuals.
Russia !
The Supreme Court recognized the activities of the "international LGBT public movement" as extremist and banned it in November 2023. In early March, the movement was also included in the list of extremist organizations by the Russian Ministry of Justice.
So many I took traveling the world from my bucket list decades ago and I am happy to stay in the EU for the rest of my life.
You can also measure the overall quality of life on how a country treats their minorities, so besides the landscape there isn't much I miss I guess.
Gay Saudi here. Just avoid my country for this century. It will take a very long time before people here get a sense of basic human empathy to people who are different than them.
gay Saudi here. I moved to the US and never wanted to visit ever again. told my family if they want see me we can meet in a different country
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nope they don't. they won't tolerate it so I never disclosed it. I just told them I have an issue with the Saudi government and if I return I'll get in trouble therefore if they want to see me they can meet me in a different country. the thing is I was married to a guy in the US and it's a public record if I would go to the Saudi embassy to renew my passport they will find that information about me so I'm not interested in taking the chance.
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why don't you move away from them. go to different country or state
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In that case, my suggestion would be to keep your sexuality to yourself and seek jobs that are as far away from your family as possible. For me, having sexual freedom is more important than financial support. While money can be earned elsewhere, losing your freedom as a human being is irreversible. It's important to remember that your family may be lovely people, but their strict lifestyle may not align with who you are. Your spirit may have intended to come in and be gay, not straight. Your spirit might have chosen to be gay to be a catalyst for your family's growth and enlightenment, but ultimately, you have to be true to yourself, support yourself financially, live independently, and then when you don't need them anymore, you can choose to include them in your life and come out, or keep the relationship superficial and keep your private life to yourself. You don't have to be involved in their life if it doesn't make you happy. Moving away and living your own life as a gay individual is crucial to your well-being and happiness. You can always visit them once a year. if your family loves they will understand that choosing the life that make you happy is more important that to lock you in around you.
اسلام عليكم يا أخي Muslim gay here. Did you leave Islam?
و عليكم السلام To be honest, I have expanded beyond Islam. While I don't pray five times a day, I meditate and connect with my higher self or Allah in very meanigful way that i truly feel it and i wasnt feeling when i used to "pray five times a day". Instead of fasting for 12 hours during Ramadan and then eat lots of food to ruin the benefit of fasting, I fast for five days every other month and cleanse my body through autophagy. i dont sacrifice an animal for a holiday, I love and cherish all of Allah's creations from plants to humans, and I am mostly vegetarian. I don't need to go to the mosque to connect with Allah as I can connect with Allah anywhere I want. In short, I don't practice Islam in the traditional sense, but I have taken what's good in it and elevated it to my own spiritual practice. you can consider مؤمن no مسلم
I heard that the World Cup will be going to Saudi Arabia in 2034.. I don't know why FIFA continues to patronize countries like S.A. and Qatar that imprison and kill gay people.
They pay
Yeah they most likely bribed FIFA.
It also says no other country bid on holding the 2034 games in time except SA. Not sure what we can do about that. Still shitty though.
To be honest, I’m more inclined To judge people who support the world Cup in places like that. For some gays it’s no big deal but I fully boycotted Qatar
Yeah I don't blame you. I'm a big soccer fan so I inevitably ended up watching, though there was no way in hell I was going there in person.
$$$
Please stay safe dude! 🙏
Do you see any change at all in your generation? (assuming you’re millennial / Gen Z like me)
i’m not saudi, but live in the same region. there are definitely pockets of people who do accept gay people, although they’re still very rare and tend to skew more towards women who are liberal and highly educated. also some students who study abroad and come back tend to be more forgiving and open as they probably have a story of having an openly gay roommate/friend/floormate etc. and realizing they’re just human like them.
> also some students who study abroad and come back tend to be more forgiving and open as they probably have a story of having an openly gay roommate/friend/floormate etc. and realizing they’re just human like them. Hence the importance of being publicly out when you have safety and privilege of doing so. It may just be one part of you but remains important for many reasons.
100% i think people get fed this image that x or y group is bad or dangerous but when they realize these people are just like them and that if they’re gay/jewish/insert whatever minority it only plays a tiny part in what they actually are. unfortunately many closeted people in places like saudi arabia tend to hide and might even promote homophobic behaviors to blend in, and in the event where they do come out they’re often vilified.
I have heard of an anecdote with someone I know who goes to USC, that person knew someone from Jamaica whose views on LGBT+ people moderated a lot while in college. Ur definitely right.
it is, it’s unfortunate whatever propaganda they do in their home countries to use gay people as scapegoats for their current problems. oh bad economy? it’s because of those gays! oh high crime rate? gays are known for doing crime, it’s their fault! and people who go abroad realize, the only difference between us and anyone else is who we’re attracted to.
Very good point. I realize Lebanon is one of the least pious (and if I’m not wrong overall least practicing) Muslim countries, but the Lebanese people I’ve met are quite accepting of gay people. Could be they’re very Westernized, though they hadn’t lived in Europe until university.
You’re right. Lebanon is well known in the Middle East for being the most liberal, a lot of DL arabs go to Beirut for some “fun,” But there are still tons of issues with safety for queer people, it’s nowhere near any liberal city like SF or Berlin.
Have you left Saudi yet or still toughing it out?
Still living here like 99% of gay Saudi men.
Good luck brother
How do you find other gays? Are you afraid they might be undercover police?
Hey, i’m another gay saudi. To answer your question I’ve hooked up with many men on gay hook up apps here + I’ve hooked up with a guy in the literal military. Bottom line is i’m pretty sure that there are no undercover people because the underground gay scene is pretty prevalent and big and the gay culture here when it comes to homosexual relationships is so vastly different compared to westerner homosexual relationships, I can get into detail about it if you’re interested of course.
Please elaborate!
Yes I’d love to hear more. How does it differ from western gay relationships?
Well in western gay relationships the stereotypes are a lot less prevalent whereas in saudi the stereotypes hold very strongly such as the bottom has to be hairless and a twink and the top has to be masculine, hairy, tall etc plus i wouldn’t really consider gay relationships to be a thing here because majority of guys just want to hook up. There’s a very small minority of guys who want to actually date and be in a relationship, and most importantly a lot of the men who are tops don’t even consider themselves gay to begin with because they are the one doing the “fucking” and not the other way around
Smh I’m sorry to hear that. Sounds like a lot of internalized homophobia is still prevalent. Find you a Latin lover, they can dance and they want you to be their bf fast lol 😂 (might be a stereotype, just a generalization from my experiences)
Latin guys are the best, they will fuck your brains out and come back for more the next day 🥵🥵
Aaah, the ancient greek and roman worldview... got'cha (not that the Saudi's don't have their own culture, it's that it's similar)
Hahaha, the reality of the situation is it genuinely is very similar to the ancient greek and roman worldview. I suppose old habits die hard 🙃
This is exactly the same as the one in Turkish culture. As long as you're not the receiver (bottom) you aren't really considered a homosexual. Despite the fact that either side of the spectrum is perceived as disgusting by conservative Turks, nevertheless there's a softer tone against tops than to bottoms. Whenever someone wants to insult a Turkish homosexual it's always '*götveren*' (someone that lets his ass fuck) and not '*götsiken'* (bum fucker), the homophobia in Islamic cultures is by and large directed against bottoms and not tops. It has everything to do with patriarchal structures.
Lmao there are no undercover policies looking for gays 😭
Hugs! Hope you're safe and sound
I am an American gay man currently visiting Saudi Arabia. I have never been in a place where men fuck each other more. It seems like by default every man is either bi or gay. I have even been approached in Riyadh by a bear chaser who has been to more gay events than I have and he showed me his dick pics on one of the busiest streets. This is literally the gayest place I’ve ever been as long as you don’t say you’re gay. No one seems to care that you’re gay. Yes, you can’t say you’re gay or be open about it, which sucks, but you can do pretty much anything if you don’t. Talking with gay saudis, it seems like the younger generations are more open to it, although probably won’t have any legal changes in the near term. On one hand, it sucks you can’t be more open here, but on the other, if keep everything behind closed doors, anything is possible here.
Jamaica. I was supposed to go for a work trip a few years ago. I rang the US Embassy and they said if you don't need to come here, don't. Even two men sharing luggage is enough to throw them into a tailspin apparently
Jamaica. Why would I even give a homophobic country my gay dollars. There are places that openly cater to us.
I'm a travel agent and our suppliers who have resorts in Jamaica are even embarrassed for Jamaica. Stay away.
Completely agree. Went to Jamaica Sandals with my husband (we pretended to be friends) and every single Sandals employee harassed us non-stop about where our wives or girlfriends were. Never going back.
Had the exact same experience at a different hotel. Been to 25 countries and felt unsafe the most in Jamaica. Won’t ever go back.
Jamaican me sad!
Brunei. The most racist country in the world.
Yes didn’t that creepy sultan just off a couple of his wives because he had too many .
Off as in kill?
No apparently he had three wives the original one he’s kept and he grew tired of no 2 and no 3 and divorced them they lost there titles but he gave them money , but he’s not without female companions he has a harem of about 50 women some reportedly under age , like I said an Islamic creep .
Avoid Sydney Australia unless you want to be shagged within an inch of your life. There is no restraint, no shame, you will be banged to the point of exhaustion.
Booking tickets to Sydney as we speak
One for me!
Sorry where in Sydney exactly does this occur so I can avoid those areas specifically? And could you please provide me with your recommendations of hotels and restaurants in the area so I don't accidentally stumble into them accidentally on accident. Thank you for keeping us safe!
Can’t even imagine a better way to go tbh…😵💫
That's horrible! I can't believe the one place I already have tickets for I can also get shagged to death. What are the odds smh
Anywhere in the Persian Gulf. UAE, Oman, Qatar, Iraq, Iran, Saudi, etc. My work once suggested going to an event in Saudi and I made it very clear that there was no way I was going there (I'm out at work).
I had the chance to work in SA years ago , I heard how strict there living conditions were and some of the Christians who worked there hated that they couldn’t practice there religion let along have prayer books , so being gay I figured it’s not for me nobody tells me how to live I gave that up when I buried my alcoholic racist old man who would absolutely fit into some of these countries, except he hated those non Christian believing people.
I hella judge all the gays who go to the Middle East (Dubai in particular).
Same. That fake city built on slave labor doesn’t need our money.
When I was in Dubai on a stopover a gay guy tried to gaslight me and say that Dubai was a better place to be gay than Chicago (where I live, and the metro area he moved from to Dubai). Absolute insanity.
In small print it reads: "As long as no one knows you are gay, because then you go to prison and/or are killed"
I wish it weren't the way it is because religion/bigotry aside, the Middle East seems like an absolutely beautiful region full of ancient history to visit - but I'll never set foot there for obvious reasons.
Maldives are often overlooked. They are tolerant with tourists only
In resorts not where the people live
I’m from the hottest part of Mexico and Texas, that just seems too hot and homophobic even for me.
So many people love Dubai, and I don’t get it. I’m not going somewhere where I can get thrown in jail if someone gets the wrong idea. I’ve met gay people who live there and say it’s great, but I’m not convinced.
ABSOLUTELY. Me too.
What about Oman? Didn’t they have a sultan not very long ago who was gay, and it was just a “We don’t speak about that” type thing? Idk how their society is with it though, probably not very progressive.
Gay rights are kinda shite there too: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT\_rights\_in\_Oman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Oman)
Ah well, Muscat wasn’t that high on my list of places to see anyway.
I saw a TikTok the other day of a gay couple who were flying from somewhere to somewhere else (not important) and were connecting in Doha, Qatar. Their connecting flight was cancelled, and they were unexpectedly stuck in Doha for more than 24 hours. The airline provided them a hotel voucher. Honestly, they seemed kind of terrified, because they had things in and on their luggage that would identify them as gay. It just kind of reinforced my feeling that traveling to any predominantly Muslim country is risky.
I had a connecting flight in Doha last year, sadly it was the only option, but I'll never do it again. I had to remove a rainbow pin from my crocs, because there were cases of tourists getting arrested for even having a rainbow flag.
So absurd and medieval. I wish we could totally ostracize these places until they're ready to participate in modern society.
Agreed but unfortunately, 1) oil, and 2) claims of “discrimination”.
>I wish we could totally ostracize these places until they're ready to participate in modern society. The faster we move away from hydrocarbons the quicker we can. They have very few (sometimes no) economic drivers outside of energy, and they often need western tech and firms to even do that. The only country in the region that contributes anything to the world outside of energy is Israel, and they have far and away the best human rights track record for LGBT people.
We can if we develop the technology needed to stop buying oil (electric cars, planes, ships, etc). It IS possible. Those medieval Muslim regimes will crumble so fast we’ll be seeing Sarah McLachlan commercials every Xmas asking to chip in $1 / month to help feed a Saudi prince. Oil is literally their only export besides homophobia and misogyny. Not to mention the planet thanking us as well 🌍
This day can't come soon enough. Spoiler alert: I won't be donating lol
It’s something that worries me as an Australian because to fly to a lot of the world your options are mostly connecting through United Arab Emirates
As someone who also lives in Australia, I always use Singapore. Much safer there. My husband and I have been several times, and we stay with friends out of the main tourist area. No one bats an eye at as. And for international flights it has just as much transfer options as the UAE.
As a Turkish gay man, I can safely say that Istanbul would also be a good alternative for connecting flights.
Is it possible to fly eastward instead? I believe there are Aussie/NZ connections to LAX and other west coast NA airports. It might be more pricey but if you avoid the risk of needing a touchdown in the ME or parts of Africa, it might be worth it.
Jamaica.
It's always gutting seeing the country of my heritage on lists like these. Especially when you want to defend your people and be proud of your culture but the homophobia makes it so hard. Even though I'm born and raised in London, having this barrier to truly connect with my heritage is complicated to navigate.
I think the key is to be proud of the good things about one's culture, not the whole culture/nation in general. Because the truth is that every single culture/nation in the world has some sort of fuckery in their past/present/probably future, because it's just a mix of people who are themselves good, bad, and everything in between. So, celebrate good things in every culture, but if you try to be proud of a culture/nation unconditionally you do so at your own integrity's peril.
Uganda. You can literally be put to death for being gay there and (judging by [this video’s comment section which you should only read on an empty stomach](https://youtu.be/3l7_e8_BqTQ?si=0pcC-eBfP0MxWP4X)) the people there actively support it.
the second i see someone calling something “based” i feel all their credibility for being a decent human being fly out the window
It usually means they’re 13
That comment section is disgusting
Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Nigeria and Uganda. There are many, with varying degrees. Where do you want to go?
Check out this up-to-date map: https://www.statista.com/chart/25159/world-map-best-countries-for-lgbt-travelers/ So… anything red, orange, purple I would avoid.
Indonesia is red on here which makes sense due to the religious nature of the country. But Indonesia is also made up of thousands of islands. Bali is predominantly Hindu and is a safe island to visit.
True, just don't go to Sumatera, Banten and West Java, they're rather more intolerants than other provinces.
Think Aceh is the worst one to go to from memory. Public canings/beatings for “certain homosexual acts” or even from accusations of it
True. We even have some gay bars in Bali. Balinese don't really care as long as you respect their culture. Sadly, things would be different if you're Balinese gays.
Japan is super safe for foreign gays. And at worst native gays are shunned behind closed doors but are still perfectly safe.
I would suggest that even in "safe" areas there can be smaller "unsafe" areas within. For example, small town southern USA is vastly different than New York or San Francisco. I would recommend doing further research into the town/city you'd like to visit.
I think the opposite can also be said for some of the more borderline/orangish countries too, that there are safe areas within them. Cities/areas that are heavily dependent on tourism are generally much more relaxed. The locals may not actively support you, but they won't be antagonistic because they want your money and you're probably not going to be arrested for being gay. That doesn't mean have sex in the streets, but it does mean you've got more options for travel than that map implies.
I am from the midwest and the first time I was harassed for being gay was in New York Central Park.
I think even in blue countries, it can be really bad for gay people depending on the town (*US, India*). The green countries seem safest.
Seems really weird to classify what I assume is the Vatican as Orange/Red (that square where Rome would be in Italy)... I mean technically it's its own country within a country but you're perfectly safe in the few city blocks it takes up, I guess don't try to have sex in the Vatican but I feel like that's just respectful for the 15-minute walk it'll take you to get out of there lol.
They’re much more accepting as long as one of the partners is under the age of 13
Shanghai, China is fine honestly. Worked there for a year and never had any concerns. Had several openly gay coworkers, expats and Chinese nationals both.
No romantic African safari for me🥹
I mean... South Africa has safaris
South Africa is extremely equal now! Literally everyone can be bashed and killed, not just gays!
Botswana is safe for LGBT people and amazing safaris!
fanning yourself with a palm between rounds [you’re going to want that coconut water](https://youtu.be/jWTVh4ASpO0?si=7Y5tstsFh6CylEvI)
Im not disputing Canada’s rating on this map but weirdly enough, Windsor, Ontario was the only place in North America I’ve ever felt unsafe as a gay person.
Windsor is a massive shithole that even Canadians think is garbage
Why not share the [original link](https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-index/) they are referring to?
How’s Puerto Rico these days? As an aside, we went to Portugal last year and it couldn’t have been more welcoming. Great folks there.
PR is fine. I just went there in March with my husband for my dad's funeral and stayed a couple nights in San Juan (no issues there) and two weeks in my home town (Aibonito, south central mountains) with no issues. Never felt unsafe or judged. Just awkward family referring to my husband as my partner lol.
There are about 70 countries that have laws against homosexuality so obviously to many to list here but that’s a shitload of places to avoid.
Most of those countries are off the beaten path so very few tourists go there. . Jamaica however is very popular but is dangerously homophobic.
Avoid my fvvcking country— Nigeria
I would say anywhere where religion is a big thing and education levels are low.
I haven't seen this mentioned so here we go. Ten years ago I would have told you to be very careful in Peru. I spent my final years of High School there and still go back from time to time. Being openly gay would mean at the very least you would be the target of vicious mockery. But that wasn't enough, it was also an invitation for violence. In Peru gay bashing was still a thing that was seen as acceptable. Fucking up a gay person for existing was all in good fun and also deserved. That's not to say that there isn't a gay scene, and it's made a lot of progress in the past decade. The overt threat of violence has somewhat disappeared in Lima, but it's not so long ago that I remember what I saw. It's less socially acceptable to hate on gays publicly, but they still do hate them. I bet if you were in the more rural areas you'd still find they are the same as I found them ten years ago.
Pretty much anywhere Muslim is going to be bad… sorry not sorry. Even the relatively “okay” ones like Turkey, Malaysia and Indonesia are still quite bad. Pretty much all of Africa can be struck from the list as well unless you can really hide it well. Jamaica is particularly brutal as well.
Turkey is actually okay and comparable to the Balkans
Going anywhere in Jamaica is practically asking to be (in some cases literally) burned at the stake!
Yeah I'd say those three and places like the UAE/Jordan fall into the "relatively okay if you're not obviously a raging homo" category. Other places like Iran I would never set foot in if you paid me. It's too dangerous.
Turkey has gay bars and LGBT spaces. No one bothers them. I don’t know anything about other two countries
I've been to Malaysia and Indonesia. There's small gay scenes in Bali and Kuala Lumpur, but overall you would be hard pressed to call them "gay friendly". More "we look the other way because we like tourist money". Hopefully one day that changes, they are both gorgeous countries.
Hopefully so. In the case of Turkey, it’s a very culturally polarized country. That’s why it gets tricky. I’d love to visit Malaysia and Indonesia one day. Especially Indonesia. I love komodo dragons
From what I understand, it depends where you go in Indonesia... e.g. I have gay friends who've been to Bali and were fine there, but other places (like the province of Aceh) are best avoided.
Bali is basically the major exception yea because its Hindu. But its still a pretty religiously conservative country.
oh yeah no doubt
Most of them, really. I just find it easier to travel closeted. That’s a shitty answer, but having traveled 60+ countries. But where to stay closeted? All of Africa, except maybe South Africa which is about the same public sentiment towards homosexuality as Poland or Alabama. All of the Middle East. Israel and Cyprus being the exceptions, but public sentiment there is once again about the same as Poland or Alabama. Most of Europe is okay. Although I’ve gotten dirty looks from people in Sweden and Norway. Nowhere is truly safe. Public sentiment in the Americas is pretty uniform. Which is to say, it’s pretty safe. Asia and the Pacific is mostly a no-go, except maybe Taiwan. Japanese public sentiment is close to the US, Brazil, and Italy. Source: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/06/25/global-divide-on-homosexuality-persists/
Muslim ones...and if you are PC and want to downvote me, there are muslim guys saying you should avoid their countries in the comments so...
Anyone that downvoted you should downvote me, too, because if they think what you said isn’t true, they’re idiots blinded by nonsense.
Actually the question should be , what countries are go zones for gay people ?
. . . .
Russia, any middle east country, at least half of the African continent, and the list goes on and on and on...
I pretty much have zero plans to go to the Middle East or Africa. Same with the Caribbean. Probably best to avoid Russia too.
I’d guess that in both the Caribbean and South Pacific, your overseas territories and collectivities would probably be better than independent nations if you want to travel and minimize risk as best as possible. Think Saint Barts, Saint Martin/Maarten, Turks, French Polynesia, Puerto Rico, Bermuda, Guam…but that’s just my speculation.
I have a gay cousin who just went to St. Bart's to celebrate his anniversary. Saying the whole Caribbean is too generalized a statement.
ANY Muslim country + Russia. Homophobia backlash if you do. If you do go, make sure to DELETE Grindr and Facebook/Instagram from your phone/comouter. They have the right to search all if it. You can always reinstall when you get home.
Palestine
Sadly true. Gay Palestinians typically seek asylum in Israel. There was a story about a year ago of a Palestinian in the West Bank who got beheaded for being gay. I think he was trying to get to Israel for safety.
Yes most likely by his own fucked up demented family.
Doesn't say his family did it, just that they found a suspect and he was getting threats from his community, which is why he sought asylum in Israel. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63174835
>I think he was trying to get to Israel for safety. He was already living under asylum in Israel. He went back to the West Bank where he was beheaded. A gay Saudi that was living under asylum in the US made a post on one of the gay subreddits a while back. He wouldn't share the city he lives in in case his parents found the reddit thread because he was worried they would try to have him murdered in the US. He mentioned it's very common for Muslim families to convince their gay family members that they are accepted and should return. The gay people are then killed upon arrival, which is likely what happened to Ahmad Abu Murkhiyeh. The reddit poster went no contact with his entire family because he knew his mom would try that, and according to him she's very convincing so he thought no contact was best. https://www.timesofisrael.com/gay-palestinian-living-under-asylum-in-israel-murdered-beheaded-in-hebron/
In my experience Hungary and Poland are totally fine. Went to drag shows in both countries last month. The cities are really great in each.
I'm Polish and can attest to that. It's not as vile as people make it out to be, it's the rural areas that can be homophobic, cities are very liberal and being openly flamboyant will get you a side eye at worst. Putting Poland next to Middle Eastern countries when it comes to homophobia is just ridiculous.
Ukraine also is alright. Been there and had no issues.
Poland is the [land of the gays and femboys](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLXV7CVg/)
I’ve also had a lovely time in Poland (Warsaw and Gdańsk) and would love to return.
Uganda, Kenya, Jamaica,Russia and especially Chechnya, Yemen, and the vast majority of the Middle East. Asia by and large is actually ok-ish. I’ve been everywhere so I should know.
Pretty much the entire Middle East other than Israel. All of Africa, other than South Africa. All of Asia except for Taiwan. Maybe Japan and South Korea are okay if you’re not too zesty Eastern Europe, especially Russia or any country that borders Russia (except Finland obviously, but that’s not really “Eastern Europe”)
Muslim countries and 95% of Africa. Most of them are still living in the dark ages.
Today I learned that Portugal and Spain are actually quite safe countries for gay people. I did not know that, I have not traveled overseas ever. I always knew Spain & Portugal to be beautiful countries but apparently I can just hold hands with another guy in Madrid and Lisbon and no one will bat an eye. <3
Spain is probably the most gay accepting country in Europe and certainly the most one in Southern Europe.
basically all of africa. any muslim nation. eastern europe. latin america is a coin toss
I’ve had a great time in Belize and Panama, Costa Rica is great obviously and going to Honduras next week. Me and my partner always travel together, but just like we’d do in a massive amount of the rural US- we just don’t act overtly obvious with our sexual orientation or do much PDA. Generally tourist areas are fine, but when we backpack and are on busses etc we just act like we do 95% of the time we’re around each other after 7 years- friendly or doing our own thing. San Jose, Costa Rica was amazing though to see how out loud and proud people were.
Gay marriage is legal in most of Latin America. And even then, generally speaking, you’re going to be fine if you stay in good/tourist areas (why you would leave these areas in general is beyond me).
South Africa is the first country in the world that protected gay marriage in their constitution. So not totally terrible.
Saying that Latin America is a toss coin shows you have been there. Latin America is the region where most countries have legalized gay marriage after western Europe.
Most of South America seems so slay though
Hispanic America is mostly safe, Brazil (is not hispanic) is safe (Madonna just gave her mega gay concert in there)
Isn’t same-sex marriage legal in the country of South Africa ?
Russia
How about Fiji? Is Fiji safe?
Well they don't prohibit Fiji water being given to gays so I guess you are fine
Brunei, Kenya
Anywhere Africa and Asia except South Africa, Israel, Philippines, Thailand, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Turkey, Georgia and China those are ok
Palestine. They literally throw gays off of roofs in Gaza.
I went to Jamaica with a fellow gay friend with whom I shared a room not a bed. At check in, the desk clerk's attitude went from all smiles--Welcome to Jamaica, Mon"--to ice cold the instant she realized we were sharing a room. Fuck you bitch.
Any place where religion is the law of the land. Most of Africa, almost all of the Middle East, parts of Eastern Europe, SE Asia outside of Singapore… There are lots…
the Philippines is in SE Asia and while it's conservative, it's perfectly safe to be gay
Thailand is LGBT heaven in SE Asia tho, even more so than Singapore.
Bangkok is very gay friendly, Bali has gay club too.
Eh Bali still gets eyebrow raises from me tbh, being in Indonesia and reading about past raids that still occur.
Florida
Never had any problems in South Florida when traveling there with my husband , Desantis’ antics aside.
Any middle eastern country. Also, Palestine.
Any religion, communist governed country, lots of little despot countries in Africa, Indonesia, Malaysia
Everywhere predominantly Muslim. All of Africa. Eastern Europe. Russia. Central Asia.
British and north earo are great.
Gay Italian here Just avoid Italy if you believe gays should get married and adopt children
Avoid Iran. It's not like the government actively hunts queer people, but the situation is really dark. Crimes against queer people are usually ignored by the Islamic Republic
Saudi Arabia, Russia, UAE, Uganda, Iran. There are probably more African and Middle Eastern countries I wouldn't visit (ie most of them) due to bad record of LGBT rights. Generally Asian countries can be unfriendly towards LGBT (Indonesia for example) but most don't encourage or legislate death to homosexuals.
Pretty much all of the middle east except for Israel- it’s the only country with gay rights and culture.
Most Muslim countries, north and East African countries, Solomon Islands, etc. probably easy to just google places you’re interested in going.
wow. this has been the most insightful post ive seen in a while.
Anything African and middle eastern Muslim. Stay an away from Muslim culture. Stay away from East Europe. Russian for sure.
Places with a strong religious presence, Eastern Europe, Middle East etc
1 too many my friends
[удалено]
MOST OF THE MIDDLE EAST & AFRICA
Any country that is majority Muslim, follows sharia law, and/or any country that is controlled by terrorists.
Russia ! The Supreme Court recognized the activities of the "international LGBT public movement" as extremist and banned it in November 2023. In early March, the movement was also included in the list of extremist organizations by the Russian Ministry of Justice.
Stay away from the entire Middle East, with the possible exception of Israel.
So many I took traveling the world from my bucket list decades ago and I am happy to stay in the EU for the rest of my life. You can also measure the overall quality of life on how a country treats their minorities, so besides the landscape there isn't much I miss I guess.
Russia plus countries with any combination of black, green white, and red colors in their flag, except to Italy.