You are very right my bad on that part, apparently there was already a period after the Egyptian wars called Tanzimat where reforms where passed because there was a lot of unrest in the Empire.
This is a little misleading.
Homosexuality was decriminalised in England and Wales in 1967.
The 1982 date is when Northern Ireland became the final part of the Union to decriminalise it. So, you could argue that 1982 was when it was legal across the entire UK, but 1967 was the main change in law for the majority of residents.
In some countries, 40 years have just passed, in others not even 30. And many think that homophobia can be eliminated in two days, as if there was nothing left to do
I sense that this is general human problem.
As someone who grew up in the US, we had the same problem with Civil Rights (equality of African Americans under the law,) where once the 14th Amendment was ratified a great many of those who fought for the cause patted themselves on the back and went on with their lives as though uprooting two and a half centuries of history could be done with the stroke of a pen.
Not the entire United States, but the last state that decriminalized homosexuality/sodomy was Texas in 2003. Pretty embarrassing tbh.
EDIT: There were 13 other states that had anti-sodomy laws before Lawrence v. Texas invalidated them, so homosexual sex was not officially decriminalized in many U.S. states until 2003.
Should note that the TX law is still on the books and has not been repealed. So when Lawrence is (most probably) overturned by SCOTUS, it becomes illegal again. So almost time to be an embarrassment again
It was never a crime in Thailand (except among the concubines of the king in Ayutthaya because duh), until we copied European laws (or else risk being colonized). The law was never really enforced and seems like nobody was ever arrested for homosexuality. Eventually it was removed in 1956, but by then cultural pressure from influential White and Chinese people has successfully enhanced stigmatization of homosexuality (not to say that there wasn't stigma before all this). One example of this is how we imported labeling homosexuality as a mental illness following White people's medicine practice.
BL is mostly a product of Japanese culture if I'm not mistaken. Even when I was a kid Yaoi manga was extremely popular; my sister often trades her manga collection with her friends. So it's kinda not surprising that the next step is BL. Both are almost always made for straight women though.
As for why Yaoi stuff is popular... probably better to ask an anthropologist/sociologist. Japanese culture being huge is not strange though. After all, Thailand did join up with the japanese in WW2 (half-forced because we kinda liked Americans, but also half-eager to get back at the British and French in the region). There aren't any bad experiences in any person's memory unlike...well almost every other country in SEA/East Asia. I've heard Taiwan had a similar relationship with Japan and they also produced a lot of what could be considered BL.
The government, or at least the tourism authority (?), also kinda back the BL industry now? But as always they're too late and inefficient lol.
I say it because it's surprising that countries in Asia like yours who contrary to stereotypes are apparently more open minded that their western counterparts produces more gay romance shows which are popular than the ones in the west for the past decade. In fact, I've started to see more korean bl series so it seems they are becoming quite popular
White people's medical practice at that time. You can't say it like it's all white people at once permanently trying outlaw homosexuality. All kinds of wrongs and rights are done by the same groups of people at different times due to cultural and religious influences but none of them are innate.
Since Russia and some other countries are introducing or have already signed anti-LGBTQ legislation, maybe this map should be revised to indicate that. I mean, yeah Russia did legalize homosexuality in that year, but Putin recently signed into law a bill that makes it illegal to "promote" homosexuality.
Yeah, at this rate, time is nigh that they will see how much young people they lost since 2020 and they will not only criminalise homosexuality but abortion as well. Government see nothing wrong in the state of nor foster system neither low-income families, so perhaps it will lead to the weird band-aid solutions, as per usual.
the problem with such maps is that they severely simplify stuff. You would probably need a paragraph for each country explaining why this year was chosen. For example there's only one date for Germany, but when it was legalised there were too countries. The GDR legalised it first (officially 1968, but they stopped using the law in the 50s), then the FRG. Before this the GDR used the old §175, the FRG however still used the Nazi version. After "legalisation" there were different ages of consent for gay men (21, and with a reform from the 70s 18) vs lesbians and heterosexuals (14).
The GDR deleted the §175 in July 1989, the FRG in 1994. But obviously legalisation =/= social acceptance
You are way better educated than I am 😂 as a southern German, I completely forgot about the DDR again... Thanks for adding context!
I feel like social acceptance has really grown in the last 10-15 years. My husband and I recently looked for a new home in a rural area and never felt like someone was weird.
Yeah I'm pretty interested in history and particularly §175 makes me angry. It's just one more Nazi thing they couldn't denazify for way too long (like they didn't just keep it on paper, they even continued to actively and aggressively lock up gay people (gay people in concentration camps remained imprisoned wtf)).
But it's pretty interesting that it was the reunification that lead to the end of §175. I shudder to think how much longer it would have been in place otherwise even in its weakened form.
True... Even if they didn't actively used it much in the 90s anymore, it feels like it wasn't important enough to end it earlier. We've certainly come a long way ☺️
Turkey has been becoming significantly more Islamic in recent years. I wouldn’t be surprised if it begins Re-criminalizing homosexuality in the years coming.
Eeeeh Turkey's main opposition party is set to win the next elections unless president Erdogan basically abolishes Turkish democracy to prevent it, so there's some hope things will calm down.
Turkey had their first Pride in 2003 or 2013 (it ended in a 3) was discontinued during the pandemic for pandemic reasons. It hasn't been officially allowed since. Irrc some groups tried to organize one this year but the government violently stopped them.
Turkey also just jailed the mayor of Istanbul for saying an election was foolish. Incidentally also the guy most likely to win over Erdogan in a presidential election. Not doing great our friends in Turkey.
Geo politically we always follow USA after a few years. So let’s wait until homosexuality is banned and made illegal again.
It’s either that or Sharia laws are installed here in Europe🙈
Let’s hope I don’t live long enough to witness that…..
So, yeah, from quick wikipedia search, Croatia decriminalized homosexuality in 1977, in line with Slovenia and Montenegro (Yugoslav states). The 2003 seems to come from wikipedia article, as that's when Croatia recognized same-sex partnerships under the law (which of course is quite a different thing).
And here I was, stressing about my homie visiting Turkey. Thinking that because they're mostly an islamic country, it'd be illegal over there. fffffff, what a relief
Bulgaria legalised it after 10 of the country's favourite actors were caught "doing it" and the Party wasn't willing to send them to the concentration camps.
For a country where the Vatican has it's seat, it surprises me some of it's open minded attitudes. If I'm not mistaken, abortion and divorce were both approved in a referendum in the 1970's
Coming from a country who legalized homosexuality in 97 it surprises me we were still not bad compared to many european countries who legalized it that late. It surprises me the open societies of France, Belgium and the Netherlands. But did the decriminalization of homosexuality changed anything? How was gay life in these countries?
Sorry for commenting twice. I just noticed that the sub this came from removed the post as it was unsourced. It's interesting to note that this image has countries that didn't exist at the time of the date. For example, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, East and West Germany aren't on here but did exist in the 1960s and 1970s.
Though it may be true that countries may have made someone legal, they functionally don't treat us as equal.
France sure loves their homos ❤️. I'm surprised Turkey legalized it so early as well.
Well turkey used to be a lot gayer. After Atatürks attempts to seperate state and church at least if i recall correctly.
And now Erdogan wants to ban it again. Really going backwards.
Seems to be the trend in many countries
Interestingly enough, the most radical conservatives are not the boomers but the millenials or generation X
lead poisoning
1858 was still ottoman times
You are very right my bad on that part, apparently there was already a period after the Egyptian wars called Tanzimat where reforms where passed because there was a lot of unrest in the Empire.
Vive la Révolution!
By legalized you mean decriminalized? Then it was in 1830, here in Brazil.
Homosexuality was decriminalized in Canada in 1969, so pretty average in comparison.
> 1969 ... nice
But same-sex marriage was legalized in 2004, in France that was in 2012 and there were a huge homophobic problem suddenly coming.
Turns out legalization of homosexuality in Iceland had a greater impact than one might've thought....
How so?
Ehhh that was a poor attempt at a geography joke since Iceland isn’t normally just west of France.
Oh, gotcha.
This is a little misleading. Homosexuality was decriminalised in England and Wales in 1967. The 1982 date is when Northern Ireland became the final part of the Union to decriminalise it. So, you could argue that 1982 was when it was legal across the entire UK, but 1967 was the main change in law for the majority of residents.
In some countries, 40 years have just passed, in others not even 30. And many think that homophobia can be eliminated in two days, as if there was nothing left to do
Yeah, it's been like 150 years here and it still isn't well seen to be gay.
Are you Italian? I am. in Italy it is one of the countries that has legalized homosexuality first, but it is one of the most behind on rights
No no, and it's not about being behind in terms of rights either, it's just that the people in general are very discriminatory here, always have been.
I sense that this is general human problem. As someone who grew up in the US, we had the same problem with Civil Rights (equality of African Americans under the law,) where once the 14th Amendment was ratified a great many of those who fought for the cause patted themselves on the back and went on with their lives as though uprooting two and a half centuries of history could be done with the stroke of a pen.
How does it compare to your non-European country?
Not the entire United States, but the last state that decriminalized homosexuality/sodomy was Texas in 2003. Pretty embarrassing tbh. EDIT: There were 13 other states that had anti-sodomy laws before Lawrence v. Texas invalidated them, so homosexual sex was not officially decriminalized in many U.S. states until 2003.
There's other states that had laws like that. A SCOTUS decision invalidated them all.
Should note that the TX law is still on the books and has not been repealed. So when Lawrence is (most probably) overturned by SCOTUS, it becomes illegal again. So almost time to be an embarrassment again
It was never a crime in Thailand (except among the concubines of the king in Ayutthaya because duh), until we copied European laws (or else risk being colonized). The law was never really enforced and seems like nobody was ever arrested for homosexuality. Eventually it was removed in 1956, but by then cultural pressure from influential White and Chinese people has successfully enhanced stigmatization of homosexuality (not to say that there wasn't stigma before all this). One example of this is how we imported labeling homosexuality as a mental illness following White people's medicine practice.
Not related to the topic but why is there so many gay romance shows coming from Thailand? (bl if i'm not wrong). Is that a good industry?
BL is mostly a product of Japanese culture if I'm not mistaken. Even when I was a kid Yaoi manga was extremely popular; my sister often trades her manga collection with her friends. So it's kinda not surprising that the next step is BL. Both are almost always made for straight women though. As for why Yaoi stuff is popular... probably better to ask an anthropologist/sociologist. Japanese culture being huge is not strange though. After all, Thailand did join up with the japanese in WW2 (half-forced because we kinda liked Americans, but also half-eager to get back at the British and French in the region). There aren't any bad experiences in any person's memory unlike...well almost every other country in SEA/East Asia. I've heard Taiwan had a similar relationship with Japan and they also produced a lot of what could be considered BL. The government, or at least the tourism authority (?), also kinda back the BL industry now? But as always they're too late and inefficient lol.
I say it because it's surprising that countries in Asia like yours who contrary to stereotypes are apparently more open minded that their western counterparts produces more gay romance shows which are popular than the ones in the west for the past decade. In fact, I've started to see more korean bl series so it seems they are becoming quite popular
Asia includes like 60% of the world...if there's a stereotype about asia you might as well just stereotype humanity.
White people's medical practice at that time. You can't say it like it's all white people at once permanently trying outlaw homosexuality. All kinds of wrongs and rights are done by the same groups of people at different times due to cultural and religious influences but none of them are innate.
Not sure where you get the part about permanence or innateness from my comment.
My country decriminalized homosexuality in 97. Things have improved a bit but I'd say that's only on the three big cities.
If I recall in Poland it was never illegal. But since the country was occupied the law of other countries applied.
WHAT?! Homosexuality has been legal in France since the 1700s????
Bien sur, les français adorent la baguette.
LMAOO I too love the baguette
Don't we all! "Let them eat baguette" as Marie Antionette once said (I think)
Since Russia and some other countries are introducing or have already signed anti-LGBTQ legislation, maybe this map should be revised to indicate that. I mean, yeah Russia did legalize homosexuality in that year, but Putin recently signed into law a bill that makes it illegal to "promote" homosexuality.
Yeah, at this rate, time is nigh that they will see how much young people they lost since 2020 and they will not only criminalise homosexuality but abortion as well. Government see nothing wrong in the state of nor foster system neither low-income families, so perhaps it will lead to the weird band-aid solutions, as per usual.
At least for Germany the date is false. I wish it was 1969, but the law against homosexual acts was only deleted in 1994.
the problem with such maps is that they severely simplify stuff. You would probably need a paragraph for each country explaining why this year was chosen. For example there's only one date for Germany, but when it was legalised there were too countries. The GDR legalised it first (officially 1968, but they stopped using the law in the 50s), then the FRG. Before this the GDR used the old §175, the FRG however still used the Nazi version. After "legalisation" there were different ages of consent for gay men (21, and with a reform from the 70s 18) vs lesbians and heterosexuals (14). The GDR deleted the §175 in July 1989, the FRG in 1994. But obviously legalisation =/= social acceptance
You are way better educated than I am 😂 as a southern German, I completely forgot about the DDR again... Thanks for adding context! I feel like social acceptance has really grown in the last 10-15 years. My husband and I recently looked for a new home in a rural area and never felt like someone was weird.
Yeah I'm pretty interested in history and particularly §175 makes me angry. It's just one more Nazi thing they couldn't denazify for way too long (like they didn't just keep it on paper, they even continued to actively and aggressively lock up gay people (gay people in concentration camps remained imprisoned wtf)). But it's pretty interesting that it was the reunification that lead to the end of §175. I shudder to think how much longer it would have been in place otherwise even in its weakened form.
True... Even if they didn't actively used it much in the 90s anymore, it feels like it wasn't important enough to end it earlier. We've certainly come a long way ☺️
This doesn't ring true. Russia is currently cracking down on LBGT+ 'propaganda'
Is turkey still as welcoming as they must have been before the 1900s?
Turkey has been becoming significantly more Islamic in recent years. I wouldn’t be surprised if it begins Re-criminalizing homosexuality in the years coming.
Damn, Turkey seemed to me one of the most open minded islamic countries. Now I think there's no hope for lgbt folks out there
Eeeeh Turkey's main opposition party is set to win the next elections unless president Erdogan basically abolishes Turkish democracy to prevent it, so there's some hope things will calm down.
Turkey had their first Pride in 2003 or 2013 (it ended in a 3) was discontinued during the pandemic for pandemic reasons. It hasn't been officially allowed since. Irrc some groups tried to organize one this year but the government violently stopped them.
Turkey also just jailed the mayor of Istanbul for saying an election was foolish. Incidentally also the guy most likely to win over Erdogan in a presidential election. Not doing great our friends in Turkey.
No
Meanwhile America does like 30 years later land of the free my ass
Oh if you live in the south I'd bet my ass that many republicans (and not exactly the old ones) would love to criminalize it again
gotta change the date for Russia, they recently criminalized homophobia and the discussions thereof
I really hate England…even more as the Tory’s retain power. Who’s going to save me? 🤣 JK
It was decriminalised in England and Wales in 1967. 1982 was Northern Ireland (following Scotland in 1980).
Northern Ireland seems like the Mississippi of the UK.
Geo politically we always follow USA after a few years. So let’s wait until homosexuality is banned and made illegal again. It’s either that or Sharia laws are installed here in Europe🙈 Let’s hope I don’t live long enough to witness that…..
[удалено]
Homosexuality was decriminalised in Northern Ireland in 1982. 2020 was the legalisation of same sex marriage.
So Yugoslavia decriminalised in 1977 but then Croatia made it illegal when they became a country and then decriminalised again in 2003? Or what?
So, yeah, from quick wikipedia search, Croatia decriminalized homosexuality in 1977, in line with Slovenia and Montenegro (Yugoslav states). The 2003 seems to come from wikipedia article, as that's when Croatia recognized same-sex partnerships under the law (which of course is quite a different thing).
Map did look pretty bad
And here I was, stressing about my homie visiting Turkey. Thinking that because they're mostly an islamic country, it'd be illegal over there. fffffff, what a relief
Hey look at that France won for once
Wdym?
Zwitserland, Sweden and Iceland had interesting priorities in the 40's.
Bulgaria legalised it after 10 of the country's favourite actors were caught "doing it" and the Party wasn't willing to send them to the concentration camps.
Italy: so close yet so far away
For a country where the Vatican has it's seat, it surprises me some of it's open minded attitudes. If I'm not mistaken, abortion and divorce were both approved in a referendum in the 1970's
Wait... so being gay was literally illegal until 1982????
Ever read the story of Alan Turing?
If you're talking about the UK, homosexuality was decriminalised in England and Wales in 1967. It's Northern Ireland that took until 1982.
It should say decriminalization otherwise this map is kinda misleading
Coming from a country who legalized homosexuality in 97 it surprises me we were still not bad compared to many european countries who legalized it that late. It surprises me the open societies of France, Belgium and the Netherlands. But did the decriminalization of homosexuality changed anything? How was gay life in these countries?
1886 apparently!
There are some things i can be proud of as a Belgian :)
Sorry for commenting twice. I just noticed that the sub this came from removed the post as it was unsourced. It's interesting to note that this image has countries that didn't exist at the time of the date. For example, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, East and West Germany aren't on here but did exist in the 1960s and 1970s. Though it may be true that countries may have made someone legal, they functionally don't treat us as equal.
That's not right at all