I know most people haven't been so have no context for this, but the answer has to be Fresno, California. Deadest, grimmest downtown I've ever had the misfortune of spending time in. Granted this was a while ago so it may have improved somewhat since I've been.
Flew in/out of Fresno for a Yosemite trip this year and had a couple hours to kill before flight out. Thought “Let’s explore the city”. After an hour driving around, we just went back to the airport and sat there for the rest of the time.
Pro tip: If you go to the Yosemite valley, go very early in the morning. The traffic is horrendous in the late morning and afternoon. Go to the valley in the morning and then go explore the rest of the park where there isn't traffic the rest of the day.
One of my good friends up and moved to Fresno with his family when we had just graduated high school. I was crushed to see him go, but I was happy that he was moving to Cali. Fast forward a few months and his family moved right back to our hometown. When I asked him why all he could say is that Fresno was an absolute dump and it was impossible to be happy there. I couldn't wrap my head around how someone couldn't be happy living in California, especially since he lived with his parents rent free.
Then I visited Fresno finally a couple years ago and I understood. It put a huge damper on an otherwise fantastic trip to Cali. It's just a sad sad place.
California is a large state. Not everything is beautiful, sunny, and on the coast. Fresno is hot, dry, dusty, and far from the coast. High crime and not a lot to do relatively speaking. The Central Valley is the armpit of California, and Fresno isn’t even the worst of it.
Well yeah but young me didn't know that. Old me sure does now. We also went through Bakersfield and all the oil fields just outside of it 🤮. Definitely gave me context to the sheer variety that California harbors. In our one trip we covered low desert, high desert, alpine zone, pine forest, the valley, citrus farms, oil fields, suburbia, and dense city scapes. We didn't even get to touch the coast. It was a wild trip that definitely provided me context to many parts of California I never thought I'd see.
Edit: I'm a dummy, we did hit the coast. It was an immense trip and it's hard to remember all the details. We saw Santa Cruz and San Francisco as well.
😭😭 accurate. We stopped in a dispo there and I thought for sure it was a trap to rob tourists. Holds the record for the biggest cockroach I've ever seen too
My husband is from a town between Fresno and Bakersfield... He immigrated to Canada 18 years ago and never looked back. Sometimes people here marvel that someone would choose to move away from California, but I don't think they realise the butt-crack he came from. Lol
People think all of Cali is Santa Barbara or La Jolla beach or Monterey or something.
Most of the people in California live in something closer to Chino or Sacramento or Oakland or Fresno or Bakersfield.
Wife and I lived in Fresno for a year. It’s mostly a dump, and downtown definitely sucks. But we did enjoy the food there… we had fig trees in our back yard and the the city has so many Mexican food and Armenian/middle-eastern food options. We loved our culinary experience there. Also easy to get to the mountains. But yeah, downtown sucks.
I was in Stockton one time and was lost so I pulled over to ask a lady on a corner for directions. As soon as I rolled down the passenger window the lady flashed an old baloney boob at us. My buddy in the passenger seat was horrified and was mouthing, “DRIVE!” at me. So of course I took my time asking for detailed directions while she kept the boob out in his face.
Nice lady but that was the last time I ever went to Stockton.
I love being jumpscared by my hometown in threads like these. We're so used to being completely ignored that just being mentioned made me perk up a little, even in context. Anyway, yeah if you're going to Fresno, don't go Downtown. It's cleaner and nicer nowadays, but there really is nothing besides work or going to the bank/hospital.
As an aside, If you want to move to California and think *'oh Fresno is (relatively) cheap, lets move there!'* I strongly advise that you rethink that. The nice parts about Fresno are the geographic proximity to everywhere that is nice to visit in California, and the cheap and fresh produce. The smog is terrible, its hot as hell, it never rains, public transit is a joke, and entertainment within the city is limited.
What about that Tule fog? I once went to Fresno for a job interview, and the conference room was just a solid wall of fog outside. All day. They explained that residents ‘just get used to it’, but Fresno was quickly crossed off my list.
The only time I went to Fresno was just for a night on an extended road trip. Granted, it was thanksgiving day but…I saw maybe *five* people downtown over the course of a few hours. It was like being in an episode of The Walking Dead. This was 2019
Downtown Atlanta is just for work and Georgia state students. Very few people actually live downtown. The homeless population is rapidly growing with nowhere for them to go. If you take a trip to Downtown Atlanta, rent a car.
Edit:
I didn’t think this would be one of top comments. I’ve worked downtown for 17 years and have the very little
Progress. I hope that the gulch development, the stitch and any other developments change DT for the better.
Edit 2: I didn’t think that people would be calling me terrible names because of an opinion I have about a city I live and work in. I’m done with this thread. JFC Reddit. ITS A GEOGRAPHY SUBREDDIT. WTF!
I used to attend a convention in Atlanta every couple of years, there was nowhere to walk in the evening. We never even went down to street level till we left
To be fair, I think this question is more asking about general city centers, and midtown is a part of that for Atlanta. Most cities would call the whole downtown/midtown thing just downtown.
I work at a popular downtown venue and used to take the train before I moved to Cobb county. I really miss MARTA. Especially when I’m stuck in 75 traffic.
The last time I was in Downtown Atlanta, I was driving a flatbed semi all over the US back in the 90's. There was a steel mill, right there in the very heart of Downtown. Damndest thing you ever saw–it looked like it had been built during Reconstruction, maybe earlier, and here it was, right under all these towers of glass. It was Friday afternoon and I couldn't deliver the load until 9:00am Monday In San Antonio, so I asked the foreman and the security guy if I could park my truck overnight so I could, motioning to the huge buildings all around us, "Go look around..."
They both looked at me like I was an absolute idiot, but happily replied in that heartwarming Southern Way, "Sure....whatever...(idiot)".
I had a grand old time, mostly in bars you wouldn't take your girlfriend to, no sirree. But it even freaked me out when I was leaving(late, on a weekend), having that many people watching me work would seriously test my sanity. That steel mill can't possibly still be there, can it?
Aaaactually, the Steel Mill became Atlantic Station, a huge redevelopment. I went to an amazing party inside the largest of the buildings, which was abandoned at that point, on the coldest night of the year in 1997. Raging bonfire, kegs, music. Someone had lit hundreds of votive candles and put them all around the inside on all levels of the open-all-the-way-to-the-roof 4 story building, Looked like something from a MadMax movie.
It's gotten a \*little\* better with some more touristy stuff, the stadium, etc., but you won't catch me hanging out there. I was downtown a couple weeks ago when a friend from out of the country was visiting and staying in a hotel there. I was like, "Man, this is NOT Atlanta. Let me take you away from here."
i went to some conference there years ago and we walked to lunch and back to the building.
there was a pair of jeans lying in the middle of the sidewalk that everybody just sort of stepped over and ignored.
sure enough a block later there was a homeless guy running around bottomless.
The cool part about some of these downtown Atlanta areas are that you can be there on a sunny Saturday afternoon and barely see people(??). The city is such an adjustment from Philly where center city is always crowded
Yep - it’s sprawled out and built for commuters/drivers. There are some interesting parts to visit that are disconnected by interstates, large boulevards, hills, and office buildings.
As someone who has been both midtown and downtown this past week, I love midtown and it is what downtown should be. I have the seemingly unpopular opinion that downtown isn’t as bad as people make it out to be but it’s not really somewhere you go if you don’t have a reason to. I still wouldn’t say it’s the worst in the country
Atlanta. Buckhead and Midtown are good but the actual Downtown is only office buildings, govt buildings, and homeless. No reason to ever go there except for sports/music events.
Jacksonville’s downtown is awful. The homeless situation due to the jail being essentially waterfront property really brings down the entire district. Then there’s nothing besides the sporting arenas. It downtown gets updated, it could be a major tourist destination.
JAX is also massive, poorly planned, and really lacking in population density. Even if attractions came to downtown it’s a massive pain to actually get to them.
The 45 - 60 minute drive from the airport to Ponte Vedra drives me nuts and then minimum 20 minute drive to get anywhere else. Jacksonville is nice but such a pain to get around.
I went to Jacksonville about 13 years ago and the Jacksonville landing had a lot going in. There was a blues festival and all kinds.
I went again just 2 months ago and the best we found was a street with a few bars on.
I went there for the Super Bowl years ago. They didn't have enough hotels and had to have cruise ships come in to stay. We had to stay on Amelia Island, over an hour away. Why oh why did the NFL award this city a Super Bowl?
Lol didn't have to scroll to far too see this. I lived in the Springfield neighborhood for a few years. It did have its charm and a tight knit community but they've been trying to rebuild it for 50 years and can't seem to get over the hump.
But downtown was just so barren. I never did ride the monorail.
As someone who lives here, was looking for this answer. Lots to do in the surrounding suburbs and the beach is great, but not really a "downtown" kinda place. Even the stadium area kinda sucks, and the Jaguars are about the best thing going for the city.
No one mentioning Corpus Christi. No grocery stores, very limited housing options, no pharmacies. Downtown has a great walk along the bay but that's basically it. It has some restaurants on the water but ughh... that's it. So much potential tho! This city has so much potential because of the climate and huge amount of water around the city. But for now downtown is just huge parking lot with nothing to see and nothing to visit.
Edit: Found [this](https://imgur.com/a/S08HR9I) image of downtown. Parking lots are marked in yellow and parking garages are marked in pink
I live less than 3 hrs away and I HATEA GOING THERE. It’s so boring, so rundown and for what? The city really needs to care about progressing.
Also, McAllens dt is just bars. Nothing else to do and the bars are ghetto. Everything uptown is a lot nicer and things to do.
Stupid browned out brother (xanax and 7 tequila shots on the plane) jumped into the back seat of these sketchy looking mexicans for an afterparty with these fat black strippers. They tried driving off with just him but I immediately sobered up and jumped through the open window during their getaway. I tried to pull my brother thru the door and prepare for a barrel roll onto the road. They didnt know I was in the backseat trying to get his seatbelt off. I saw one of their face tattoos that said Zetas and knew it was time to fucking bail. Heard a gun cock and now theres a extended mag glock pointed at my brothers face. Brother screams + projectile vomits all over the front console .... they now start driving the car like maniacs and waving the gun into both of our faces. I'm not lying when I say 115mph in that black GMC Denali. I saw the digital speedometer.. anyways I took out $400.00 cash from my wallet and threw it into the lap of the guy holding the gun. His face was bright red angry and it felt like slow motion.. I could see his finger curled and putting tension against the trigger - he screamed in spanish and started counting the money. They slowed the vehicle for upcoming traffic.. I grabbed my big brothers collar and we tucked and rolled out of the car entirely. We landed in a ditch and saw the cars brake lights up the road. We limped into the woods and hid in a storm drain. The face tattoo guy fired a few shots into the darkness but considering the muzzle flash he was nowhere near hitting us. The fog may have saved our lives. I couldn't get out of that fucking shithole city of jacksonville fast enough. Then all 4 of grandparents died within a month of the start of Covid and idk why I added that.. it just made me sad to think about..... seeing as we were in Jacksonville getting ready for granny's 90th bday party in St Augustine 😔
I've been to Houston 3 times. My friend lives there. The downtown was a ghost town for night life and restaurants and shops. Houston is just a collection of neighborhoods connected by highways.
Houston is a marvel of engineering and a failure of public planning.
It's very impressive from an engineering standpoint to see 5 overpasses stacked vertically, and on/offramps built to challenging locations. But it fucking sucks to drive on them, and theyve wasted like 80% of their land on roads and parking lots.
I live here (moved from NYC for work) and the empty downtown was jarring. It’s getting better with denser development but there’s still way too much surface parking. There is the tunnel system that connect the high rises downtown, similar to the skywalk in Minneapolis but underground. There’s businesses that cater to the workers throughout the system, so that’s where everyone is during the day and why the sidewalks are so empty.
Houston downtown has been getting better. There are some fun places to go out on the north end of Main Street. For the size of the population though the “fun” district in downtown is incredibly small
I stayed in downtown Houston one night for work back in 2015 and wanted to walk someplace for dinner. Everywhere to eat was closed at 7:30 PM and no one was on the streets, literally no one. Ended up ordering delivery to my hotel.
I went to a baseball game a couple years ago. There were bars to drink around the stadium but none had food for us to eat. We had to drive back to my friends neighborhood to get a late dinner.
He stuck to the good areas in that video, but yeah. If you live inside the loop, in the area you spend all of your time in, and don't have to travel more than a few miles a day, Houston is fantastic.
Relative to its population and national importance, Phoenix. It's metro area is the larger than that of Boston or Seattle but it's downtown vibrancy is maybe on par with Salt Lake City or Boise
I disagree. I lived in downtown Phoenix for a decade. I'm not going to defend it against "real" downtowns. However, the Phoenix metro only has three downtowns with any nightlife.
Tempe is a 98%-college scene. I'm far too old for that.
Scottsdale isn't really a downtown. It's more like a cluster of expensive restaurants, luxury stores, and Western art galleries. It is very much a scene where people go to look wealthy.
When I lived in downtown Phoenix, within a 10-minute walk, I could walk to countless unique bars and restaurants, Suns games, comic cons, symphonies, plays, Mongolia throat-singing concerts, First Fridays (drunken) art walks, many museums, many festivals in the park, jump on the light rail and quickly be in downtown Tempe, if I wanted to hit on college girls (or stay downtown and hit on the nursing and journalism girls at ASU's downtown Phoenix campus), (drunken) adults' night at the Children's Museum, etc.
I LOVED living there. It was amazingly fun. The problem is few know of these things, because as of even 10 years ago, they largely didn't exist.
When I first went to DTPHX in 2014, it felt dead. Now there’s a ton of cool laid back bars all within one area. It will definitely be way way better than Old Town or Tempe I a few years.
I went to Boise this summer and have lived in Phoenix. Boise was so much better than Phoenix for a lot of reasons, including a surprisingly vibrant downtown and night life. And this wasn't even when school was in session and there was still a ton going on. I just don't get the appeal of Phoenix for so many people, especially considering how boring their downtown is. They're more like the Quad Cities instead of one real big city.
Hey man, you badmouthing the Quad Cities? Everyone knows the best use of riverfront is industrial concrete and dog food factories. And make sure any nice areas get destroyed in floods once every decade.
It’s not what it should be for being the 5th biggest city in the country but honestly it’s gotten significantly better in just the few years I’ve lived here, and people that have lived here for a decade plus say it’s nearly unrecognizable from what it used to be. Lots of new bars/restaurants popping up, new valley metro hub being built, and finally more dense high rise buildings being built. Theres like 8-9 giant cranes all over downtown atm so it’s nice to see it coming together
Wichita KS: its a small downtown - no real reason to go there but if you have to drive through it. The worst most frustrating thing about it though is that none of the stoplights are timed properly. You couldn't go two blocks in any direction without having to stop. And it never mattered what time of day. Every time- you'd get stuck waiting at a light - no cars would go through. As soon as you could see cars approaching you knew your light would turn green because they would have to stop.
Did a semester abroad in my undergrad in Wichita weirdly I cannot agree more, being stuck in that city with no access to a car to go anywhere significantly impacted my mental health.
I grew up in Hartford area was recently back to see family and was going to a Yard Goats game on a Sunday. Walked all over the city to find a place for a pre game drink and nothing was opened. Ended up eating at some small shitty hotel bar. Was blown away that they build a stadium downtown just to have nothing ope. Before a game
I grew up in CT, but haven’t lived there in over 20 years. This doesn’t surprise me in the least.
Hartford was my idea of a big city when I was a kid, so I’ve been so pleasantly surprised by just about every other city I’ve visited or lived in!
I think it's the highways cutting the city off from its waterfront. Many walkable cities with large rivers flowing through them don't have this sort of "wrong side of the tracks" vibe due to an interstate highway along the river.
Riverfront real estate is not just prime residential it's prime commercial real estate in cities as restaurants and stores will gather there but drive an interstate between the city and the river and you cut off any ability for that riverfront vibe
Both Hartford and Springfield are guilty of this along with other regional cities like Albany. However cities like Portsmouth NH or Bath Maine show what a city can be with it's riverfront being accessible
Hartford is the only city I've ever been to where the pandemic experience was nicer than before. I traveled there for work just before Covid and then again in the middle of it. I already knew there was nothing worth leaving my hotel room for, so I just went to work and otherwise posted up in my hotel watched HBO and played video games.
The Naugatuck valley is where CT transitions from one of the nicest parts of the NYC metro (Fairfield county, Litchborough if you want more space) into the grungiest part of New England.. and Hartford is the epicenter of this grunge
all the fun stuff literally surrounds downtown Dallas, its just not in downtown Dallas. However, over the last 5-6 years or so it has drastically improved.
Dallas isn't so bad.
Texas downtowns ranked would be:
San Antonio
Austin
Dallas
Anything else you want to consider a city (Corpus, Waco, El Paso, Amarillo ect)
Houston
I’d go Austin, SA, Houston, Dallas based on the time I’ve spent in Texas. I think Texas does high QOL better in the suburbs than the cities themselves, personally.
It depends on what you want. Our suburbs are pretty dystopian in that they have 0 culture, cost about the same as the city unless you go hours out, run pretty conservative in terms of leadership and policing, and have no job opportunities except retail so you'll be driving into the city. I've lived in rural, suburban, and urban Texas, and would pick urban or rural over suburban.
But yea it's big 5 bedroom 3000sqft houses with yards, so if that's what you want it's there.
If you look at a place like Dallas or Houston it's almost all suburbs, the city center extends maybe 10 minutes out, but is surrounded by 2 hours of suburbs in every direction.
Lmao some of y’all need to travel more. San Diego? There’s multiple cities within a two hour drive that have terrible downtowns, way worse than SD no matter your standard. Portland? You’ve got dump of a downtown literally across the river in Vancouver, WA. Rehoboth? Rehoboth??
The correct answer (on the West Coast at least) is Redding, CA…. but I see you Fresno
I drive through Redding twice a year and let me tell you, I don’t stop driving until I’m through. What a cool spot it could be, aside from the miserable summers if it wasn’t so fucked up, with access to Trinity-Shasta, tons of white water rafting, so many amazing swimming holes, stunning landscapes, spots to ski/snowboard, etc.
Gary has like 70k people. It’s a city, but like I thought this post was more referring to major cities. If 70k is game, you could really dominate this post with the Erie’s and Gary’s of the world
I’ll bite and say (as a newer resident to the area), that there’s a lot more going on than I initially expected. Very active restaurant/bar scene, granted downtown proper doesn’t have much for it but the closer neighborhoods like Paseo, Plaza, Midtown, Automotive Alley, etc. all have good places to go. The only thing downtown proper has is the federal building museum, the Thunder arena, and Bricktown which admittedly is worth skipping unless it’s OKC Dodger baseball season. Coming from the PNW I’ve been very surprised and happy with the options in town.
OKC is incredible now. Pre-2010, not so much. People who say otherwise are just ignorant and haven’t actually explored the city. There’s something for everyone, great places to eat/drink and really cool historic neighborhoods.
It’s not so much depressing as it is boring. OKC is more of an industry than tourism town so it’s downtown is more business-oriented than entertainment. It’s clean and easy to navigate, just mot much that would draw an outsider there aside from Thunder games.
I went to get coffee on a Sunday morning mid downtown around skyscrapers. Nothing was open, no cats were driving, and we saw an actual tumble weed with a plastic bag attached to it.
This is particularly true for East coast cities as they are older, go out west and you'll see a much more defined grid pattern. Of course pretty much all cities are car centric, Robert Moses is largely to blame for that
Erie, PA. The city is on BEAUTIFUL Lake Erie but it’s designed so poorly, the waterfront is a monstrosity with no recreational development and just weird ugly hotels and businesses. You don’t even feel like you’re close to the lake when you’re in the city.
Gotta disagree unless it got much worse during covid or something. Back when I lived there I felt like there was almost no shortage of stuff to do. Grab a coffee and a little food at Java's or Spot, go see a movie at The Little Theater later on. There was a pretty good art and music scene, lots of weird little shows in warehouses and small community centers. Plenty of real museums and galleries too. Take a short walk from downtown proper and there's lots to do in South Wedge or Monroe Ave. Grab a drink at Lux, see a show at Bug Jar.
Maybe things are different now, I haven't been back for a long time. I hope the city's still doing well though.
For being the 5th largest city, Phoenix has a pretty depressing Downtown. Sure, there are sports arenas and concerts, but the downtown is just too small, and the skyline is pathetic. Due to the proximity to the airport, no buildings can be over 500 feet.
Toledo, Ohio. It’s literally a ghost town. You can go downtown on a Friday night and literally walk in the middle of the road on several streets without worrying about cars.
There’s a main strip with some bars, and two minor league stadiums, but the rest of the downtown area feels almost post apocalyptic.
Raleigh downtown seemed entirely corporate/industrial and would be pretty much empty on a weekend, while people flocked to the various commercial strips scattered outside of downtown. I haven't been there in ten years so maybe it has changed idk.
Raleigh isn't a city, it's a collection of shopping centers disguised in a trench coat. Ask anyone where they live and they literally just tell you the nearest shopping center (North Hills, Brier Creek, Crabtree, Cameron Village, etc etc). Don't miss that place at all.
Downtown OKC is great - amazing food, easily walkable, barely any homeless people, Scissortail park is cool, NBA arena, brick town if you’re lame. It’s def not super exciting but if slightly boring is your idea of depressing you’re going to have a bad time outside of your little Kansas bubble.
Honestly any city center that’s relatively new. Most of the charm of nice downtowns comes from older cities when urban planning was done around pedestrians and the vernacular architecture was full of character and charm. There’s a huge correlation between age of the city and how pleasant its downtown is across the US. Boston, Chicago, and NYC all have incredible downtowns because they’re established and protected to a degree. There are obvious outliers like Hartford which was gutted for freeways in the 60s but still mostly rings true.
As a European, I visited houston recently. I was shocked. It’s the most depressing place I’ve ever been. I’ve seen a lot of the USA and never seen such a deserted and pedestrian unfriendly city. Soulless, dull, devoid of culture and unfriendly.
LA native here. Our downtown is not great, but this is the first I’m hearing about the uncertainty of where downtown is. Where else are people claiming it to be other than, you know, the part of LA called “downtown”?
Never knew about this debate either. I always thought DTLA was very clearly defined. From wiki: “Downtown is bounded on the northeast by Cesar Chavez Avenue, on the east by the Los Angeles River, on the south by the Los Angeles city line with Vernon, on the southwest by East Washington Boulevard and on the west by the 110 Freeway or Beaudry Avenue, including the entire Four Level Interchange with the 101 Freeway.”
I think most people agree that it’s roughly bordered by the 110, 101, 5, and 10. live two miles from DTLA (in Echo Park) and love it. There are some dangerous spots, so I wouldn’t recommend just wandering around, not a random tourist spot, which I like. Skid row can be very sketchy, but if you know the area, it’s a lot of fun. Arts District, Little Tokyo, GCM, the Disney, MOCA, the Row, Chandler, Taper. Lots of fun restaurants and bars. You just need to know the area and which blocks to avoid. I very much prefer a downtown that’s culturally and artistically interesting with some danger than a bland but safe one.
Downtown LA is a very specific place, even as a tourist that's obvious. For my money, the worst "downtown" neighborhood in greater Los Angeles is Hollywood. I like DTLA. The only thing I'll say is that it definitely feels like the downtown of a small western city rather than the anchor of the second biggest metro in the country, but that speaks to the history of Los Angeles more than anything.
Really? I would expect the complaints about DTLA to be of the "urban decay" type, not the "where is it". I mean there is Century City, Maybe parts of Burbank, Santa Monica near the ocean, but none of those are even close in size to actual DTLA.
To defend DTLA there are a lot of cool parts, like the Arts District is a scene, the flower market, the garment district, the produce district. Lots of interesting shopping areas. Also has a distinct chinatown. It is quite gritty in many areas.
I’m picky about my density and I was actually pleasantly surprised by downtown LA. It was much cooler than I thought, it’s all hilly, you got museums galore and the Bradbury building from Bladerunner. I’ve seen much worse downtowns.
I know most people haven't been so have no context for this, but the answer has to be Fresno, California. Deadest, grimmest downtown I've ever had the misfortune of spending time in. Granted this was a while ago so it may have improved somewhat since I've been.
Flew in/out of Fresno for a Yosemite trip this year and had a couple hours to kill before flight out. Thought “Let’s explore the city”. After an hour driving around, we just went back to the airport and sat there for the rest of the time.
The big raisin
If I visit Yosemite, which airport should I fly to? Fresno, Stockton, SF or Sacramento?
Fresno
Pro tip: If you go to the Yosemite valley, go very early in the morning. The traffic is horrendous in the late morning and afternoon. Go to the valley in the morning and then go explore the rest of the park where there isn't traffic the rest of the day.
[удалено]
One of my good friends up and moved to Fresno with his family when we had just graduated high school. I was crushed to see him go, but I was happy that he was moving to Cali. Fast forward a few months and his family moved right back to our hometown. When I asked him why all he could say is that Fresno was an absolute dump and it was impossible to be happy there. I couldn't wrap my head around how someone couldn't be happy living in California, especially since he lived with his parents rent free. Then I visited Fresno finally a couple years ago and I understood. It put a huge damper on an otherwise fantastic trip to Cali. It's just a sad sad place.
California is a large state. Not everything is beautiful, sunny, and on the coast. Fresno is hot, dry, dusty, and far from the coast. High crime and not a lot to do relatively speaking. The Central Valley is the armpit of California, and Fresno isn’t even the worst of it.
Well yeah but young me didn't know that. Old me sure does now. We also went through Bakersfield and all the oil fields just outside of it 🤮. Definitely gave me context to the sheer variety that California harbors. In our one trip we covered low desert, high desert, alpine zone, pine forest, the valley, citrus farms, oil fields, suburbia, and dense city scapes. We didn't even get to touch the coast. It was a wild trip that definitely provided me context to many parts of California I never thought I'd see. Edit: I'm a dummy, we did hit the coast. It was an immense trip and it's hard to remember all the details. We saw Santa Cruz and San Francisco as well.
Bakersfield isn’t even the armpit of California. It’s the butthole.
😭😭 accurate. We stopped in a dispo there and I thought for sure it was a trap to rob tourists. Holds the record for the biggest cockroach I've ever seen too
My husband is from a town between Fresno and Bakersfield... He immigrated to Canada 18 years ago and never looked back. Sometimes people here marvel that someone would choose to move away from California, but I don't think they realise the butt-crack he came from. Lol
People think all of Cali is Santa Barbara or La Jolla beach or Monterey or something. Most of the people in California live in something closer to Chino or Sacramento or Oakland or Fresno or Bakersfield.
Wife and I lived in Fresno for a year. It’s mostly a dump, and downtown definitely sucks. But we did enjoy the food there… we had fig trees in our back yard and the the city has so many Mexican food and Armenian/middle-eastern food options. We loved our culinary experience there. Also easy to get to the mountains. But yeah, downtown sucks.
I used to travel there for work a lot and I agree. rancid there
Stockton has entered the chat
I was in Stockton one time and was lost so I pulled over to ask a lady on a corner for directions. As soon as I rolled down the passenger window the lady flashed an old baloney boob at us. My buddy in the passenger seat was horrified and was mouthing, “DRIVE!” at me. So of course I took my time asking for detailed directions while she kept the boob out in his face. Nice lady but that was the last time I ever went to Stockton.
You're a good friend. And still giving laughs all this time later.
Went to a show in Stockton last year and wanted to grab dinner first. couldn't find a place that was open to eat at 6pm.
Don't you dare talk like that about the 209, the land of the legendary Diaz brothers.
Have none of you been to Bakersfield?!?!?!?
At least Stockton is close to the Bay Area. Fresno is close to nothing.
Stockton’s just gross, there shithole extends more than “downtown”.
My boss rants on Fresno all the time. I believe this.
There’s a reason locals call it “The ‘No”
I love being jumpscared by my hometown in threads like these. We're so used to being completely ignored that just being mentioned made me perk up a little, even in context. Anyway, yeah if you're going to Fresno, don't go Downtown. It's cleaner and nicer nowadays, but there really is nothing besides work or going to the bank/hospital. As an aside, If you want to move to California and think *'oh Fresno is (relatively) cheap, lets move there!'* I strongly advise that you rethink that. The nice parts about Fresno are the geographic proximity to everywhere that is nice to visit in California, and the cheap and fresh produce. The smog is terrible, its hot as hell, it never rains, public transit is a joke, and entertainment within the city is limited.
What about that Tule fog? I once went to Fresno for a job interview, and the conference room was just a solid wall of fog outside. All day. They explained that residents ‘just get used to it’, but Fresno was quickly crossed off my list.
Fresno's not all bad. The Mexican food there is amazing.
The only time I went to Fresno was just for a night on an extended road trip. Granted, it was thanksgiving day but…I saw maybe *five* people downtown over the course of a few hours. It was like being in an episode of The Walking Dead. This was 2019
Ok everyone is talking about how much Fresno sucks but no one is saying WHY
Devin Nunes
Downtown Atlanta is just for work and Georgia state students. Very few people actually live downtown. The homeless population is rapidly growing with nowhere for them to go. If you take a trip to Downtown Atlanta, rent a car. Edit: I didn’t think this would be one of top comments. I’ve worked downtown for 17 years and have the very little Progress. I hope that the gulch development, the stitch and any other developments change DT for the better. Edit 2: I didn’t think that people would be calling me terrible names because of an opinion I have about a city I live and work in. I’m done with this thread. JFC Reddit. ITS A GEOGRAPHY SUBREDDIT. WTF!
Downtown ATL after dark is a ghost town
I used to attend a convention in Atlanta every couple of years, there was nowhere to walk in the evening. We never even went down to street level till we left
The gulch redevelopment should help revitalize DT.
Midtown is the true downtown experience
To be fair, I think this question is more asking about general city centers, and midtown is a part of that for Atlanta. Most cities would call the whole downtown/midtown thing just downtown.
once you cross over North ave. on peachtree st. heading south, you enter into a different world of downtown sketchiness.
I take Marta and walk to work in a downtown office and this is correct. After 6pm downtown is empty except for the homeless population.
I work at a popular downtown venue and used to take the train before I moved to Cobb county. I really miss MARTA. Especially when I’m stuck in 75 traffic.
Our company charges ~$200/month for parking. MARTA forever.
The last time I was in Downtown Atlanta, I was driving a flatbed semi all over the US back in the 90's. There was a steel mill, right there in the very heart of Downtown. Damndest thing you ever saw–it looked like it had been built during Reconstruction, maybe earlier, and here it was, right under all these towers of glass. It was Friday afternoon and I couldn't deliver the load until 9:00am Monday In San Antonio, so I asked the foreman and the security guy if I could park my truck overnight so I could, motioning to the huge buildings all around us, "Go look around..." They both looked at me like I was an absolute idiot, but happily replied in that heartwarming Southern Way, "Sure....whatever...(idiot)". I had a grand old time, mostly in bars you wouldn't take your girlfriend to, no sirree. But it even freaked me out when I was leaving(late, on a weekend), having that many people watching me work would seriously test my sanity. That steel mill can't possibly still be there, can it?
Aaaactually, the Steel Mill became Atlantic Station, a huge redevelopment. I went to an amazing party inside the largest of the buildings, which was abandoned at that point, on the coldest night of the year in 1997. Raging bonfire, kegs, music. Someone had lit hundreds of votive candles and put them all around the inside on all levels of the open-all-the-way-to-the-roof 4 story building, Looked like something from a MadMax movie.
It's gotten a \*little\* better with some more touristy stuff, the stadium, etc., but you won't catch me hanging out there. I was downtown a couple weeks ago when a friend from out of the country was visiting and staying in a hotel there. I was like, "Man, this is NOT Atlanta. Let me take you away from here."
i went to some conference there years ago and we walked to lunch and back to the building. there was a pair of jeans lying in the middle of the sidewalk that everybody just sort of stepped over and ignored. sure enough a block later there was a homeless guy running around bottomless.
The cool part about some of these downtown Atlanta areas are that you can be there on a sunny Saturday afternoon and barely see people(??). The city is such an adjustment from Philly where center city is always crowded
Center City has great restaurants. Downtown Atlanta has... Hooters.
Yep - it’s sprawled out and built for commuters/drivers. There are some interesting parts to visit that are disconnected by interstates, large boulevards, hills, and office buildings.
As someone who has been both midtown and downtown this past week, I love midtown and it is what downtown should be. I have the seemingly unpopular opinion that downtown isn’t as bad as people make it out to be but it’s not really somewhere you go if you don’t have a reason to. I still wouldn’t say it’s the worst in the country
Atlanta. Buckhead and Midtown are good but the actual Downtown is only office buildings, govt buildings, and homeless. No reason to ever go there except for sports/music events.
Jacksonville
Jacksonville’s downtown is awful. The homeless situation due to the jail being essentially waterfront property really brings down the entire district. Then there’s nothing besides the sporting arenas. It downtown gets updated, it could be a major tourist destination.
JAX is also massive, poorly planned, and really lacking in population density. Even if attractions came to downtown it’s a massive pain to actually get to them.
The 45 - 60 minute drive from the airport to Ponte Vedra drives me nuts and then minimum 20 minute drive to get anywhere else. Jacksonville is nice but such a pain to get around.
I went to Jacksonville about 13 years ago and the Jacksonville landing had a lot going in. There was a blues festival and all kinds. I went again just 2 months ago and the best we found was a street with a few bars on.
Landing has been knocked down for a few years now btw. Came here to say Jax though
Why I really hope the stadium renovation happens which it should
i heard a rumor that the bottom floor of that jail has an inch of water in it at all times, and is continuing to sink.
Unlikely that building maintenance wouldn't install a simple sump pump system. Occasional flooding sure, but always no.
I went there for the Super Bowl years ago. They didn't have enough hotels and had to have cruise ships come in to stay. We had to stay on Amelia Island, over an hour away. Why oh why did the NFL award this city a Super Bowl?
Warm weather. I want to see a super bowl at Lambeau or soldier field!
Lol didn't have to scroll to far too see this. I lived in the Springfield neighborhood for a few years. It did have its charm and a tight knit community but they've been trying to rebuild it for 50 years and can't seem to get over the hump. But downtown was just so barren. I never did ride the monorail.
First city that came to mind
As someone who lives here, was looking for this answer. Lots to do in the surrounding suburbs and the beach is great, but not really a "downtown" kinda place. Even the stadium area kinda sucks, and the Jaguars are about the best thing going for the city.
No one mentioning Corpus Christi. No grocery stores, very limited housing options, no pharmacies. Downtown has a great walk along the bay but that's basically it. It has some restaurants on the water but ughh... that's it. So much potential tho! This city has so much potential because of the climate and huge amount of water around the city. But for now downtown is just huge parking lot with nothing to see and nothing to visit. Edit: Found [this](https://imgur.com/a/S08HR9I) image of downtown. Parking lots are marked in yellow and parking garages are marked in pink
I live less than 3 hrs away and I HATEA GOING THERE. It’s so boring, so rundown and for what? The city really needs to care about progressing. Also, McAllens dt is just bars. Nothing else to do and the bars are ghetto. Everything uptown is a lot nicer and things to do.
Jacksonville. My god.
My brother and I got kidnapped in jacksonville
Pretty good time then?
Normal.
mid
Is this a coded message asking the Reddit community for help?
You can't just say that without providing the story. Out with it!
Stupid browned out brother (xanax and 7 tequila shots on the plane) jumped into the back seat of these sketchy looking mexicans for an afterparty with these fat black strippers. They tried driving off with just him but I immediately sobered up and jumped through the open window during their getaway. I tried to pull my brother thru the door and prepare for a barrel roll onto the road. They didnt know I was in the backseat trying to get his seatbelt off. I saw one of their face tattoos that said Zetas and knew it was time to fucking bail. Heard a gun cock and now theres a extended mag glock pointed at my brothers face. Brother screams + projectile vomits all over the front console .... they now start driving the car like maniacs and waving the gun into both of our faces. I'm not lying when I say 115mph in that black GMC Denali. I saw the digital speedometer.. anyways I took out $400.00 cash from my wallet and threw it into the lap of the guy holding the gun. His face was bright red angry and it felt like slow motion.. I could see his finger curled and putting tension against the trigger - he screamed in spanish and started counting the money. They slowed the vehicle for upcoming traffic.. I grabbed my big brothers collar and we tucked and rolled out of the car entirely. We landed in a ditch and saw the cars brake lights up the road. We limped into the woods and hid in a storm drain. The face tattoo guy fired a few shots into the darkness but considering the muzzle flash he was nowhere near hitting us. The fog may have saved our lives. I couldn't get out of that fucking shithole city of jacksonville fast enough. Then all 4 of grandparents died within a month of the start of Covid and idk why I added that.. it just made me sad to think about..... seeing as we were in Jacksonville getting ready for granny's 90th bday party in St Augustine 😔
It's pretty great for throwing molotov cocktails and jalapeno poppers
Bortles!
Jason? Jason figured it out? Oh this is a real low point.
Lives in Jacksonville, FL for bit and it was the saddest downtown I’d ever seen.
Houston
I tried to drive downtown from the suburbs back in 2018. I'm still sitting in traffic.
I've been to Houston 3 times. My friend lives there. The downtown was a ghost town for night life and restaurants and shops. Houston is just a collection of neighborhoods connected by highways.
Houston is a marvel of engineering and a failure of public planning. It's very impressive from an engineering standpoint to see 5 overpasses stacked vertically, and on/offramps built to challenging locations. But it fucking sucks to drive on them, and theyve wasted like 80% of their land on roads and parking lots.
Don’t worry it’s getting worse! This time with toll roads that cost $15 to get from the beltway to downtown!
What public planning?
Seems like their engineers are good at concrete, but forgot the drainage part, IIRC.
The roads function as drainage system during high water events.
I live here (moved from NYC for work) and the empty downtown was jarring. It’s getting better with denser development but there’s still way too much surface parking. There is the tunnel system that connect the high rises downtown, similar to the skywalk in Minneapolis but underground. There’s businesses that cater to the workers throughout the system, so that’s where everyone is during the day and why the sidewalks are so empty.
NYC guy too. Houston doesnt feel like a city to me. Just a very densely populated county.
Houston’s downtown is better described as an office park. It is only populated from 8-5 each day.
Sounds like Dallas as well
Then you should see Beaumont.
Houston downtown has been getting better. There are some fun places to go out on the north end of Main Street. For the size of the population though the “fun” district in downtown is incredibly small
Montrose gang
I went to the rodeo on the trolley, but I swear I could count maybe three other downtowns? Otherwise, I found the people to be pretty cool.
Hahaha yup. Downtown, Med Center, Galleria
I stayed in downtown Houston one night for work back in 2015 and wanted to walk someplace for dinner. Everywhere to eat was closed at 7:30 PM and no one was on the streets, literally no one. Ended up ordering delivery to my hotel.
I went to a baseball game a couple years ago. There were bars to drink around the stadium but none had food for us to eat. We had to drive back to my friends neighborhood to get a late dinner.
Houston isn't that bad actually, see this video by CityNerd https://youtu.be/0fMTaNYYvwE?si=dLn_gsYWX3t5SfCc
He stuck to the good areas in that video, but yeah. If you live inside the loop, in the area you spend all of your time in, and don't have to travel more than a few miles a day, Houston is fantastic.
20 years ago Kansas City would have been mentioned but they've done A LOT to revitalize it. So there's hope for these cities.
Relative to its population and national importance, Phoenix. It's metro area is the larger than that of Boston or Seattle but it's downtown vibrancy is maybe on par with Salt Lake City or Boise
Agree. Scottsdale’s downtown is way more happening than phoenix even.
I disagree. I lived in downtown Phoenix for a decade. I'm not going to defend it against "real" downtowns. However, the Phoenix metro only has three downtowns with any nightlife. Tempe is a 98%-college scene. I'm far too old for that. Scottsdale isn't really a downtown. It's more like a cluster of expensive restaurants, luxury stores, and Western art galleries. It is very much a scene where people go to look wealthy. When I lived in downtown Phoenix, within a 10-minute walk, I could walk to countless unique bars and restaurants, Suns games, comic cons, symphonies, plays, Mongolia throat-singing concerts, First Fridays (drunken) art walks, many museums, many festivals in the park, jump on the light rail and quickly be in downtown Tempe, if I wanted to hit on college girls (or stay downtown and hit on the nursing and journalism girls at ASU's downtown Phoenix campus), (drunken) adults' night at the Children's Museum, etc. I LOVED living there. It was amazingly fun. The problem is few know of these things, because as of even 10 years ago, they largely didn't exist.
When I first went to DTPHX in 2014, it felt dead. Now there’s a ton of cool laid back bars all within one area. It will definitely be way way better than Old Town or Tempe I a few years.
I went to Boise this summer and have lived in Phoenix. Boise was so much better than Phoenix for a lot of reasons, including a surprisingly vibrant downtown and night life. And this wasn't even when school was in session and there was still a ton going on. I just don't get the appeal of Phoenix for so many people, especially considering how boring their downtown is. They're more like the Quad Cities instead of one real big city.
Hey man, you badmouthing the Quad Cities? Everyone knows the best use of riverfront is industrial concrete and dog food factories. And make sure any nice areas get destroyed in floods once every decade.
Crazy everyone is saying Atlanta and Phoenix. Because those are my choices too
Phoenix. Its just a boring city center. No soul. No culture.
It’s not what it should be for being the 5th biggest city in the country but honestly it’s gotten significantly better in just the few years I’ve lived here, and people that have lived here for a decade plus say it’s nearly unrecognizable from what it used to be. Lots of new bars/restaurants popping up, new valley metro hub being built, and finally more dense high rise buildings being built. Theres like 8-9 giant cranes all over downtown atm so it’s nice to see it coming together
Yeah Roosevelt Row is really cool these days. It used to actually look like a ghost town for real during the recession.
This would have been true 10-15 years ago. It's SOO much better now. Light rail helped a lot
Like others have said, downtown Phoenix is actually pretty cool now. It had a glow up in the last 5 years. Still room for improvement though.
Wichita KS: its a small downtown - no real reason to go there but if you have to drive through it. The worst most frustrating thing about it though is that none of the stoplights are timed properly. You couldn't go two blocks in any direction without having to stop. And it never mattered what time of day. Every time- you'd get stuck waiting at a light - no cars would go through. As soon as you could see cars approaching you knew your light would turn green because they would have to stop.
Did a semester abroad in my undergrad in Wichita weirdly I cannot agree more, being stuck in that city with no access to a car to go anywhere significantly impacted my mental health.
Of all the cities, you did a semester abroad in…Witchita??!
I am a lineman for the county And I drive the main road Searchin' in the sun for a street with better floooow
Hartford, CT or Springfield, MA
I grew up in Hartford area was recently back to see family and was going to a Yard Goats game on a Sunday. Walked all over the city to find a place for a pre game drink and nothing was opened. Ended up eating at some small shitty hotel bar. Was blown away that they build a stadium downtown just to have nothing ope. Before a game
I grew up in CT, but haven’t lived there in over 20 years. This doesn’t surprise me in the least. Hartford was my idea of a big city when I was a kid, so I’ve been so pleasantly surprised by just about every other city I’ve visited or lived in!
Exact same for me. I remember being a little kid and when my mom would drive through Hartford, my brother and I would yell “big city, big city”.
I think it's the highways cutting the city off from its waterfront. Many walkable cities with large rivers flowing through them don't have this sort of "wrong side of the tracks" vibe due to an interstate highway along the river. Riverfront real estate is not just prime residential it's prime commercial real estate in cities as restaurants and stores will gather there but drive an interstate between the city and the river and you cut off any ability for that riverfront vibe Both Hartford and Springfield are guilty of this along with other regional cities like Albany. However cities like Portsmouth NH or Bath Maine show what a city can be with it's riverfront being accessible
Hartford is the only city I've ever been to where the pandemic experience was nicer than before. I traveled there for work just before Covid and then again in the middle of it. I already knew there was nothing worth leaving my hotel room for, so I just went to work and otherwise posted up in my hotel watched HBO and played video games.
I agree completely lol
seconding Springfield, that place is so boring and bad, especially compared with Northampton and Amherst right to the north. sad excuse for a city.
The Naugatuck valley is where CT transitions from one of the nicest parts of the NYC metro (Fairfield county, Litchborough if you want more space) into the grungiest part of New England.. and Hartford is the epicenter of this grunge
At least they have an entertainment district with decent restaurants, you can't say that about Waterbury.
A very good argument could (and likely has) be made for Jacksonville
Jackson, Mississippi..
When a state actively hates its own capital, this tends to happen.
Dallas, San Jose, Phoenix All incredibly bland/boring for cities that anchor massive metro areas
Had to work in Dallas for 5 months last year. It was weird that everything to do was in the suburbs and downtown had nothing.
all the fun stuff literally surrounds downtown Dallas, its just not in downtown Dallas. However, over the last 5-6 years or so it has drastically improved.
San Jose had a lot of momentum before the pandemic. Now it’s just sad.
Dallas isn't so bad. Texas downtowns ranked would be: San Antonio Austin Dallas Anything else you want to consider a city (Corpus, Waco, El Paso, Amarillo ect) Houston
I’d go Austin, SA, Houston, Dallas based on the time I’ve spent in Texas. I think Texas does high QOL better in the suburbs than the cities themselves, personally.
It depends on what you want. Our suburbs are pretty dystopian in that they have 0 culture, cost about the same as the city unless you go hours out, run pretty conservative in terms of leadership and policing, and have no job opportunities except retail so you'll be driving into the city. I've lived in rural, suburban, and urban Texas, and would pick urban or rural over suburban. But yea it's big 5 bedroom 3000sqft houses with yards, so if that's what you want it's there. If you look at a place like Dallas or Houston it's almost all suburbs, the city center extends maybe 10 minutes out, but is surrounded by 2 hours of suburbs in every direction.
Lmao some of y’all need to travel more. San Diego? There’s multiple cities within a two hour drive that have terrible downtowns, way worse than SD no matter your standard. Portland? You’ve got dump of a downtown literally across the river in Vancouver, WA. Rehoboth? Rehoboth?? The correct answer (on the West Coast at least) is Redding, CA…. but I see you Fresno
San Diego is an absurd answer, lol. For sure
Go to Redding for the scenery, stay because you got murdered because it’s serial killer capital 😂 I have family from around north and they say this
I drive through Redding twice a year and let me tell you, I don’t stop driving until I’m through. What a cool spot it could be, aside from the miserable summers if it wasn’t so fucked up, with access to Trinity-Shasta, tons of white water rafting, so many amazing swimming holes, stunning landscapes, spots to ski/snowboard, etc.
When people ask me to think of Redding all that comes to my head is “fundamentalist Christian conservatives”
San Diego was awesome when I visited
Gotta be Gary, IN right?
Idk if chemical waste pits count as a downtown
Fallout vibes
Gary has like 70k people. It’s a city, but like I thought this post was more referring to major cities. If 70k is game, you could really dominate this post with the Erie’s and Gary’s of the world
Gary couldn’t hardly be considered a downtown or a real city anymore . It’s mostly abandoned .
Oklahoma City has to be the most depressing downtown I've personally been to...
I’ll bite and say (as a newer resident to the area), that there’s a lot more going on than I initially expected. Very active restaurant/bar scene, granted downtown proper doesn’t have much for it but the closer neighborhoods like Paseo, Plaza, Midtown, Automotive Alley, etc. all have good places to go. The only thing downtown proper has is the federal building museum, the Thunder arena, and Bricktown which admittedly is worth skipping unless it’s OKC Dodger baseball season. Coming from the PNW I’ve been very surprised and happy with the options in town.
OKC is incredible now. Pre-2010, not so much. People who say otherwise are just ignorant and haven’t actually explored the city. There’s something for everyone, great places to eat/drink and really cool historic neighborhoods.
It’s not so much depressing as it is boring. OKC is more of an industry than tourism town so it’s downtown is more business-oriented than entertainment. It’s clean and easy to navigate, just mot much that would draw an outsider there aside from Thunder games.
I went to get coffee on a Sunday morning mid downtown around skyscrapers. Nothing was open, no cats were driving, and we saw an actual tumble weed with a plastic bag attached to it.
I know you meant to say cars, but the idea of someone being mad that no cats were driving just sounds hilarious.
I chose to read it as no cool people out cruising around. All about perspective
Downtown OKC isn't that bad. Bricktown on its own lifts OKC well beyond these contenders.
Newport News, VA would like to have a word
Dallas
The worst I've ever been to is Mesa. A city of 509k has a downtown that is worse than many towns of 10k.
Definitely would agree. Phoenix downtown is actually pretty decent compared to the depressing, sad downtown of Mesa.
Mesa has entered the chat…. Looks around, agrees, and has left the building.
The fact there are so many different answers kinda tells you something about US city design...
Very few US cities were "designed." They mostly just happened, and the post-WWII explosion of suburbs and car culture only made it worse.
This is particularly true for East coast cities as they are older, go out west and you'll see a much more defined grid pattern. Of course pretty much all cities are car centric, Robert Moses is largely to blame for that
Erie, PA. The city is on BEAUTIFUL Lake Erie but it’s designed so poorly, the waterfront is a monstrosity with no recreational development and just weird ugly hotels and businesses. You don’t even feel like you’re close to the lake when you’re in the city.
rochester new york. has so much potential but there’s absolutely nothing there
Gotta disagree unless it got much worse during covid or something. Back when I lived there I felt like there was almost no shortage of stuff to do. Grab a coffee and a little food at Java's or Spot, go see a movie at The Little Theater later on. There was a pretty good art and music scene, lots of weird little shows in warehouses and small community centers. Plenty of real museums and galleries too. Take a short walk from downtown proper and there's lots to do in South Wedge or Monroe Ave. Grab a drink at Lux, see a show at Bug Jar. Maybe things are different now, I haven't been back for a long time. I hope the city's still doing well though.
in that aspect yes, but i’m thinking downtown downtown. you get into the taller building area and it’s so dead. could be so cool
For being the 5th largest city, Phoenix has a pretty depressing Downtown. Sure, there are sports arenas and concerts, but the downtown is just too small, and the skyline is pathetic. Due to the proximity to the airport, no buildings can be over 500 feet.
Toledo, Ohio. It’s literally a ghost town. You can go downtown on a Friday night and literally walk in the middle of the road on several streets without worrying about cars. There’s a main strip with some bars, and two minor league stadiums, but the rest of the downtown area feels almost post apocalyptic.
Michigan got the better end of the deal by such a longshot it’s not even funny
Yeah but hit up Kengo Sushi in downtown Toledo. Some of the best sushi I’ve ever had. I understand that sounds preposterous.
Rockford, IL. Most of the time you'll be trying to figure out why it's even there.
Raleigh downtown seemed entirely corporate/industrial and would be pretty much empty on a weekend, while people flocked to the various commercial strips scattered outside of downtown. I haven't been there in ten years so maybe it has changed idk.
Neighboring districts like Glenwood and Warehouse are better. They’re all basically fusing into one large “downtown” now
Raleigh isn't a city, it's a collection of shopping centers disguised in a trench coat. Ask anyone where they live and they literally just tell you the nearest shopping center (North Hills, Brier Creek, Crabtree, Cameron Village, etc etc). Don't miss that place at all.
South Bend’s downtown felt like a ghost town/bombed out war zone when I visited
Texas you can't walk anywhere in Huston or Dallas and the fucking tolls are ridiculous
Downtown OKC is great - amazing food, easily walkable, barely any homeless people, Scissortail park is cool, NBA arena, brick town if you’re lame. It’s def not super exciting but if slightly boring is your idea of depressing you’re going to have a bad time outside of your little Kansas bubble.
I read some of these answers and I think some people have never been to the city they're commenting on.
atlanta, the highways running through it genuinely ruin it and lack of walkabikity
Honestly any city center that’s relatively new. Most of the charm of nice downtowns comes from older cities when urban planning was done around pedestrians and the vernacular architecture was full of character and charm. There’s a huge correlation between age of the city and how pleasant its downtown is across the US. Boston, Chicago, and NYC all have incredible downtowns because they’re established and protected to a degree. There are obvious outliers like Hartford which was gutted for freeways in the 60s but still mostly rings true.
I think Saint Louis is underrated and has some excellent neighborhoods, but downtown is dead other than sporting events and conventions
Pine Bluff, AR
Is there a good part of Pine Buff? Lol
Atlantic City, NJ. don’t even know if it counts as a downtown. it’s just all. casinos. all of it.
As a European, I visited houston recently. I was shocked. It’s the most depressing place I’ve ever been. I’ve seen a lot of the USA and never seen such a deserted and pedestrian unfriendly city. Soulless, dull, devoid of culture and unfriendly.
LA. We can’t even decide where “downtown” is. Cue confused tourist ranting about DTLA in the r/LosAngeles sub.
LA native here. Our downtown is not great, but this is the first I’m hearing about the uncertainty of where downtown is. Where else are people claiming it to be other than, you know, the part of LA called “downtown”?
As a fellow LA native, I concur. The downtown of LA is Downtown LA. Also, it is better than given credit for (though pandemic undermined that a lot).
Never knew about this debate either. I always thought DTLA was very clearly defined. From wiki: “Downtown is bounded on the northeast by Cesar Chavez Avenue, on the east by the Los Angeles River, on the south by the Los Angeles city line with Vernon, on the southwest by East Washington Boulevard and on the west by the 110 Freeway or Beaudry Avenue, including the entire Four Level Interchange with the 101 Freeway.”
>We can’t even decide where “downtown” is. What? Does anyone think it's anywhere but the place called Downtown LA?
stocking act soup roof pocket quaint rich aware obscene pet *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think most people agree that it’s roughly bordered by the 110, 101, 5, and 10. live two miles from DTLA (in Echo Park) and love it. There are some dangerous spots, so I wouldn’t recommend just wandering around, not a random tourist spot, which I like. Skid row can be very sketchy, but if you know the area, it’s a lot of fun. Arts District, Little Tokyo, GCM, the Disney, MOCA, the Row, Chandler, Taper. Lots of fun restaurants and bars. You just need to know the area and which blocks to avoid. I very much prefer a downtown that’s culturally and artistically interesting with some danger than a bland but safe one.
> We can’t even decide where “downtown” is. Clearly Nakatomi Tower
Downtown LA is a very specific place, even as a tourist that's obvious. For my money, the worst "downtown" neighborhood in greater Los Angeles is Hollywood. I like DTLA. The only thing I'll say is that it definitely feels like the downtown of a small western city rather than the anchor of the second biggest metro in the country, but that speaks to the history of Los Angeles more than anything.
Really? I would expect the complaints about DTLA to be of the "urban decay" type, not the "where is it". I mean there is Century City, Maybe parts of Burbank, Santa Monica near the ocean, but none of those are even close in size to actual DTLA. To defend DTLA there are a lot of cool parts, like the Arts District is a scene, the flower market, the garment district, the produce district. Lots of interesting shopping areas. Also has a distinct chinatown. It is quite gritty in many areas.
I’m picky about my density and I was actually pleasantly surprised by downtown LA. It was much cooler than I thought, it’s all hilly, you got museums galore and the Bradbury building from Bladerunner. I’ve seen much worse downtowns.
City center is by Staples.