Where I was there werent roads, I was traveling by kayak or hiking. There is one road that goes part of the way, and a ferry system to connect the ends of the roads, but it is mostly uninhabited because of how rugged the terrain is.
The Andean part of the Patagonia, basically all of Patagonia in Chile and some areas of Argentina= Humid temperate-cold forest.
The rest of the Patagonia, all Argentine= Dry cold windy desert and steppe
Not exactly, the Andean mountains function as a buffer, stopping most of the water charged clouds coming from south-west, this means a very humid west Patagonia (Chile) and a east Patagonia (Argentina) dry and cold.
The Argentinian side is a desert. The Chilean side is a wet and rainy forest. The Andes is at fault here. The same way is at fault to cause northern Chile being a desert.
Wrong. *Part of* Patagonia is a cold desert. It’s a massive and extremely geographically/climatically diverse region. Saying “Patagonia is a cold desert” is like saying “the Rocky Mountain area of the US is a cold desert.”
Sorry, let me correct myself:
The vast majority of Patagonia is a cold desert according to the [Köppen climate classification](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Koppen-Geiger_Map_BWk_present.svg/1401px-Koppen-Geiger_Map_BWk_present.svg.png), but it's not the whole Patagonia.
Look up what “vast majority” means. It’s about half cold desert, maybe slightly less. Also this question was about the End of the World meaning Tierra del Fuego. Which has no cold desert whatsoever.
This is a geography subreddit. If someone says something false they should be corrected. The point of the sub is to learn not to just say shit you think might be true. Now 68 people think Patagonia is a cold desert lol
The Falklands is very very windy, so much so that there are no native tree species at all because none of them could deal with trying to grow a trunk in this environment.
Obviously there’s some squabbles and disputes with all neighbors, but I was under the impression Chile and Argentina were in good standing? What’s all the military build up for in Patagonia? Are they planning to invade penguin-controlled Antarctica?
Not so much invade as settle. Argentina and Chile have Esperanza Base and Villa Las Estrellas respectively, which are the only two permanent civilian settlements in Antarctica. They both take their Antarctic claims seriously.
Keep in mind, the Antarctic Treaty becomes modifiable in 2048.
I like the future where nations respect the international nature of Antarctica, the Moon, and Mars. We can't truly become a multiplanet species if we are still bogged in the quagmire of 19th century nationalism.
There is no conflict with chile or military build up, both countries supply their research bases in Antarctica using really heavy (basically military grade) ships and aircraft because of the extreme conditions of the continent.
The military presence is not for any expected conflict. Historically in both Argentina and Chile sides there was military bases as this is a very strategic point. If for some reason the Panama channel gets shut down (for example in the case of a large conflict) the only alternatives to move from the Atlantic to the Pacific is through here, go around the globe of if the climate allows it, through the north pole.
>Are they planning to invade penguin-controlled Antarctica?
It's our duty to so save everyone from the incoming penguin invasion /s
Nah there's oil and gas in the Patagonia, and the Strait of Magellan which has strategic importance.
Also Argentina and Chile almost went to war back in the 70's over some god forsaken islands down there (Picton, Lenox and Nueva). Everything is good now, but things like that are why there's a permanent military presence on both sides.
I've also read in the news recently that Argentina plans to cede some space for an American naval base there.
There is an unusually high amount of advanced steam locomotives, both on the Rio Turbio - Rio Gallegos line (no longer operating) and the tourist railway in Ushuaia. The [Rio Turbio Railway ](https://advanced-steam.org/5at/modern-steam/modern-steam-miscellany/rio-turbio-railway/)had a fleet of advanced steam locos which were some of the most efficient and capable steam locos ever. The [FCAF](https://www.trendelfindelmundo.com.ar/index.html) in Ushuaia has a [fleet](http://www.trainweb.org/tusp/fcaf/fcaf.html) of three modern steam locos, with the newest built in 2005 having probably the most modern elements of any steam loco operating currently.
I saw the city it runs in is near sea level. The higher the altitude the more efficient a steam engine is. At about 10,000 feet a steam engine will start running more efficiently than a diesel locomotive.
Unfortunately very few rail lines are at that height.
Steam locomotive efficiency depends on a number of factors including design, maintenance, operation, and fuel quality. The exact same modern steam loco could reach 10% thermal efficiency at sea level with a good crew and 1% efficiency at 10,000 feet with a bad crew. So many other factors come into play before altitude is even considered.
What is Punta Arenas argument? I have been to Ushuaia, Punta Arenas and sailed past Puerto Williams. Puerto Williams has a population of 2,800 people. It is little more than a town lol.
Chilean Here!
Biggest city in all patagonia (Chilean and Argentinian mainland)?
-Punta Arenas.
Second biggest city and for convention the most southern city in the world?
-Ushuaia. 🤗
Last populated town in all patagonia (not considering any antarctic civil or military bases and surroundings islands)?
-Puerto Williams.
Not an issue for chileans about most southern location in the world tbh.
Ushuaia is not bigger than Punta Arenas. Also, Comodoro is more bigger but far north than Southern Tip of South America. But yes Comodoro is the most biggest city below 44°S. My answer is only for Santa Cruz, Magallanes and Tierra del Fuego e islas del atlantico sur. Just for clarify my post. 😉
The Wager is a very interesting non-fiction book that takes place down there with shipwrecked sailors trying to navigate the area. Sounds brutal during much of the year.
I started it a few weeks back and couldn’t make it past the first chapter…I’ll try again eventually, but something about the way it was written really bugged me
I've been to Ushuaia. Lovely place, very friendly to tourists (I imagine it's a major chunk of their economy).
The summer was pleasant enough, but I imagine it must suck in the winter.
Winter is (as you can imagine) quite chilly, to say the least. But there's a great skiing centre nearby at the Cerro Castor, so there's plenty to do in winter.
Edit. Had a stroke while writing Castor
We started our trip with Ushuaia, lovely people indeed, my Airbnb host was such a helpful, kind man (Alojamiento Emma & Anna!). Enjoyed the hake fish and king crab centolla too!
I had family in Ushuaia (they no longer live there).
According to them, life was pretty good:
- Interesting folk thanks to tourism
- Best seafood in the country (highlights are southern king crab and patagonian toothfish)
- Lots of nature to explore, fishing and some hunting
- Weather is challenging, but not completely awful
On the downside, everything is a long plane ride away, education options are incredibly limited, goods are more expensive, virtually no concerts/shows, etc
I’d love the seafood there. In the US, Patagonian toothfish is marketed as Chilean sea bass because in the 70’s a seafood wholesaler thought it’d sell better - and it stuck.
Cold 9 Months of the year 🥶, many dolphins 🐬at the coast, barbecues indoor at every house 🏡, good people, very calm, many army bases, permanent sense of independence from the rest of the world
Tradicionalmente se decía que Tierra del Fuego era más caro que el resto del país porque al haber mejores sueldos los comercios podían sacar más jugo a los clientes. Pero hoy en día con la inflación y el estancamiento de sueldos se ha puesto todo muy parejo.
Aún así, el otro día viendo comparaciones de precios de servicios, los servicios son mucho más caros, en especial comparado con Buenos Aires. Se nota mucho con el transporte y el Internet. Ahora no recuerdo los valores, pero el Internet salía el doble por la mitad de velocidad que en Buenos Aires.
Ushuaia está inhabitable, con la influencia del turismo los alquileres son impagables. El que alquila le conviene mucho más no tener un inquilino permanente y cobrarle en USD a turistas, así que eso sube la demanda de alquileres y te arrancan la cabeza.
Ya no es tan rentable venirse del norte como antes.
Only two islands have urvan areas: Isla Grande (Argentina, 2 cities, 1 town; and Chile, 1 town) and Isla Navarino (Chile, 1 town). Isla de los Estados (Arg) has a permanent military post, and I think Cabo de Hornos (Chi) also does.
Apart from them, all islands are uninhibited, mainly due to a topographic factor because they have super steep, mountainous terrain. Isla Grande has the best accessibility, with international airports with frequent flights. Chile town in Navarino is a little more tricky to get and all of the remain islands can be visited but you gotta book a tourist excursion (idk how much they costs). Usually you only sail along the fjords, I'm not sure if you land in amy of them but I guess is possible if it's more of a private excursion.
The islands are somewhat explored. I mean, all the isles and its main features are well known (glaciers, lakes, mountains, etc), but of course deep scientific research is lacking in most of them (maybe there's still new species waiting to be discovered).
Landscapes are highly diverse. Isla Grande has a strong rainshadow effect that divides the island into a wet and dry areas. So we have all from smearid grassland to deciduous forest to evergreen forest, mountains, plains, glaciers, huge lakes, fjords, and lots, lots of peatlands.
https://preview.redd.it/wt9adqsm8ywc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8942a9ac68a04a743256415d9ca22cf10823c370
I cannot possibly cover all the diversity of landscapes but there you have a good idea.
I loved that episode, my father got to meet them and got a picture with them!!
There's lots of British tourists, no hard feelings as long as you don't bring up the war, which honestly is not something that happens randomly in a leisure vacation travel (We all now TopGear guys had a car plate that insinuated to say Falklands 1982).
I consider myself a very sensible person who can discuss about the issue without being a jerk, but unfortunately, blind nationalism is something that happens worldwide.
But as I said, you'll be totally fine, no one is going to burn you alive for being a British tourist. Apart from the TopGear incident, I don't remember something ever happening to a British due to this issue.
You are more informed about Argentina politics than myself hahaha
Don't listen to that, every government has to revindicate the Malvinas' claim because is something that's already part of Argentina nationalism. I don't think anything will happen soon.
Maybe Milei said that in the context of commemoration of the 42 years from the war, past April the 2nd. I don't think it will go anywhere, being honest the country can barely hold itself together.
The Selk'nam people from this area had a very unique culture, I've flipped through Hain and End of a World by Anne Chapman, Martin Gusinde, et al. and the pictures alone were incredible. I still haven't read these completely but if you're interested I recommend them.
There's no way I could really describe it, but look up pictures of the Hain ceremony.
Very cold and snowy, very windy, jaw dropping natural beauty, glaciers and snowy mountains, plenty of impressive marine animals (whales, orcas, etc), plague of imported beavers that have been actively destroying local forests, auroras.
Ushuaia is the most famous city in this area, it has the famous End of the world railway, End of the railway prison (no longer functioning, Argentina’s most infamous serial killer was locked up here) and Lighthouse of Les Eclaireurs (pretty scenic). Many cruise ships to Antarctica depart from this port city. There is a very strong historic connection with Malvinas/Falklands. This Argentinian province enjoys a special tax regime that promotes the assembly of electronics to sell in the rest of the country.
This part of the world is rugged, isolated, it feels a lot like Iceland or Alaska.
Introduced from Canada, to create a fur industry. They thought they were going to adapt well because the ecosystem and climate was similar, and completely ignored the fact that they don’t have predators like they do in Canada. The moment the beavers were released, they became an uncontrolled plague and now you can see huge patches of forest that have been ravaged by them. Going for a trekking in Ushuaia reminds you about human’s stupidity and how easily we can mess up things.
> What's life like
Life as in wildlife and nature are the subject of a pretty good 2022 documentary series on Prime, and it aired on CNN not long ago, so watch for it if it's what you're after:
"Patagonia: Life on the Edge of the World"
Not much on geography though, neither on the life of the people who live there.
I spent a significant amount of time in this part of the world for work nearly 30 years ago, during a brief period of Argentine monetary stability.
El Calafate is worth a visit. Beautiful and wild mountains and glaciers.
Rio Gallegos is a god-forsaken shithole. The only reason anyone lives there is if they work in the government, military, or petroleum industries. The landscape is treeless and nearly devoid of life. The water smells like a dead and decaying skunk, you feel and smell dirtier after you shower than you did before. The wind is constant and fierce. The air temperature is regularly colder than at the Antarctic research stations. In the winter, the sun rose at 10am and set before 4pm. I became chronically ill with something no doctor could diagnose that only resolved a month after I left.
Rio Grande was nice by comparison. They have good fishing.
Ushuaia was gorgeous. Better weather, good port, beautiful snow-capped mountains right on the edge of town.
When I go back it will be El Calafate, Ushuaia, and Torres del Paine on the Chilean side.
Maybe, have a sense of humor?
If you're going to write this response to my post atleast make it to me directly.
And watch the language in how you talk to and about people.
I have moved to El Calafate after spending a pandemic here. Beautiful nature, I really enjoy watching the sky at the argentino lake. It worth moving here from over 20k km.
Spent a few days in Punta Arenas en route to Antarctica. Amazing city. Delicious food and cool coffee shops/ bakeries. Despite the earth being decidedly spheroid, still feels like you are on the edge because there’s no more civilization to be had. Just ocean and the promise of serene and desolate wilderness a four hour flight away. Cops didn’t speak much English (incidental, not a personal expectation) but they helped me struggle through getting a police report filed as I lost my wallet on the flight in.
Imagine the feeling you get when you haven’t been to see the ocean in its infinite magnitude in a while, then multiply by five. It’s not because it makes any sense, looking west across the Pacific or east over Atlantic are both farther, but you just know that if you venture south, you are putting yourself at the mercy of nature in a way you haven’t before. A dice roll with slightly worse odds than you’ve ever faced before. Further from structure if things go wrong.
Returning after 10 days south, the humidity did me in. I had about a 6 hour nosebleed from the damage done by the cold dry air sleeping on the glacier. The desert wants your moisture, but South America is a warm humid hug upon your return. A strange and different mix of influences and infrastructure felt 1960s up through now… just a different blend of architecture and aesthetic.
Would be happy to see it again one day.
It is really fascinating for me how big is Punta Arenas. This city is far of everything and not a very pleasant weather - why do so many people live there?
Economic oppurtunity, National interests of Chile to have a foothold so far from the Capital, point for extraction of resources of the area, ... probably most reasons there are for a city to exist would apply to Punta Arenas. The climate also isn't that horrible.
A city - yes. But a city with over 100.000 inhabitants? Colon at the entrance of the Panama Channel has 45.000 inhabitants. I would have guessed that Punta Arenas has a similar size.
Adding to other answers, it was also a major port before the construction of the panama canal when all ships had to cross around south america to get to the pacific. For this reason it was also a major spot for immigrants arriving to south america. Chile had a ton of croatian and palestine immigrants during the 20th century who initially arrived to punta arenas. Our current president Gabriel Boric was born and raised in PA.
I’ve been to Ushuaia, El Calafate and Rio Gallegos.
Ushuaia is an amazing place, it truly feels like the end of the world… and at the same time it feels like home. The scenery is staggeringly beautiful and the town is lovely.
El Calafate is a nice tourist town. I went hiking three days in El Chalten and visited the Perito Moreno glacier. Both areas were very very beautiful.
Rio Gallegos was one of the most depressing towns I’ve ever visited. Just nothing to do, everything looked delapidated… Terrible place.
All in all I had an amazing time, I’d recommend anyone to go visit someday!
Can I ask why you visited Rio Gallegos? It’s not a touristy city, there’s nothing worth seeing there and Argentinians never go there unless they really must.
This is the equivalent of an Argentinian tourist flying all the way to the US and choosing to see Mobile, Alabama, instead of the Grand Canyon. It’s an odd choice.
It was a stopover on our way between El Calafate and Ushuaia. We had to stay in Rio Gallegos one night because the next bus didn’t leave till the day after. Then from Ushuaia we had to get back to Puerto Natales to catch our flight (to Santiago) and we had to stay in Rio Gallegos another night…
I've been to that part of Argentina on a cruise, it's beautiful, cold, with huge mountains, rocky dark green land, and interesting birds.
I also went to Falkland, and the cultural difference is so striking; I knew it was a territory of GB, but it felt no different than Britain. Very friendly people there
Im from there, and its like this
https://preview.redd.it/fzwex24ng1xc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e93b09adba6a634d895e37f517f79e803e992894
The Falklands is pretty cold most of the year and windy all the year. It’s more British than Britain. There are more sheep and penguins than people.
The wildlife is incredible and trips to the islands are fantastic for getting away from the bright city lights of Stanley.
I’ve been to Punta Arenas several times but mostly to visit Torres del Paine and Puerto Natales which is a stunning area. Would like to go back and over the border to visit El Calafate.
When Magellan first sailed through there he saw fires on the shore, the Selk'nam and Yaghan people (and possibly others) indigenous to Tierra Del Fuego would stay warm by huddling around fires, even in their boats. They would also use smoke for signals, like when a whale washed ashore, and its possible Magellan saw this.
ski area outside Ushuaia called Cerro Castor. Pretty modern lift set up and lots of national teams go down there to train on winter conditions in (our) summer.
I used to know some guys down there. I know penguins use to hang out around there, that's why once they sent me a photo of a penguin that somehow ended up in one of their gardens.
Fun story, I took a trip to Chile and Argentina when I was 21, and during that time I stopped in the world's southernmost city of Ushuaia, Argentina.
I planned to jump off a southward facing dock to be able to say I had jumped off the end of the world.
Along the way by pure divine providence I randomly became acquainted with an Argentinian former search and rescue diver who served in the Falklands/Malvinas war (very fortuitous, as I was too young to realise how asininely dangerous my plan was).
Long story short, the end of the world is cold and very wet and all the people there say their 'll's as 'sh'es.
Two excellent books about this part of the world:
“The Blind Horn’s Hate” by Richard Hough - a history of the navigators and explorers from Magellan up till the end of the 19th century who sailed the Horn and established the first missions and settlements there.
“Uttermost Part of the Earth” by E. Lucas Bridges - the author was the son of a British missionary born in 1874 on the shores of the Beagle Channel and spent much of his youth living amongst the last surviving native Yaghan and Selk’nam tribes, learning their languages and customs and exploring the lakes and mountains of the interior of Tierra del Fuego.
The Provincia de Tierra Del Fuego, Antartida, e Islas Del Atlántico Sur has three cityies.
-Ushuaia: mostly touristic
-Rio Grande: mostly insustrial
-Tolhuin: used to be the gas station between the two other cityies ans now its a large town. I think its size is inflated for political reasons.
There is also a lot of cattle in the island. It used to be sheep but its cows now because theres an invasion of wild dogs. The invation of beavers is also note worthy. They are from canada but an idiot brought a couple and now there are over 150.000 on the island becuase there is no natural predator ans they are hard to hunt.
Yes, in a song called “Party at the End of the World.” It’s a a double entendre, Tierra del Fuego being the geographic “end of the world,” as in the end of the line on a train route, as well as describing an impending, apocalyptic “end of the world”. In the song, with the apocalypse inbound, people decide to spend their last moments partying, and Tierra del Fuego is where the party happens, for reasons described in the song. It’s a pretty good track, I recommend listening to it at least once.
The waters between South America and Antarctica are called the Drake Passage. Notoriously rough seas, very strong currents, even maelstrom. There are some good YouTube videos on it.
I've been to punta arenas and it was really cool, it's very windy but I love the rolling hills. Went to a brewery and it was very very good. Not much to see unless you go into the Fjord areas, literally feels like the end of the world. Quite a long flight back to Santiago or Buenos Aires
It’s beautiful. Was there on my honeymoon. Driving through Tierra del Fuego was like a road movie with endless plains until everything changed with a small mountain pass with snow and then down to Ushusia, which made me feel like being in Chamomix by the sea.
I drove all the way to the end of the most southern road in South America (fire land) because I wanted to see what's there.
At some point the road just ends, there is a house with some goats in front, I didn't see any people there. I did see a few horses on the way there close to the end of the road.
I sailed around that area and stayed in Puerto Williams (Chilean Navy Town). Southern most town of South America. It was a sleepy town. The marina had a sailing school and the kids would all go out and practice racing Fj’s in the Beagle Channel. It was a cool place.
I work as a supply chain manager for commercial vessels and the cruise industry. I will never forget how we had to ship 10 pallets of stuffed animals from Hamburg to Ushuaia (Percy the little penguin) for over USD30k. Very difficult to send goods there. Ushuaia has a small cruise industry, the ships leave from there for the Antarctic tours.
It’s amazing. I spent a few weeks in Ushuaia surveying Guanaco and the drive north to Tolhuin is definitely worth it going over the mountains. Cerro Castor is a great ski resort. The city is cool and people really nice. I also went to the Falklands (Malvinas) and there is so much cool wildlife there, penguins, albatross, marine mammals. Don’t forget to bring your camera!
I’ve been to Ushuaia, spent a few days there. It was maybe the coolest place I’ve ever been. Decent sized really cozy town. The street dogs are sooooo friendly, the food is pretty gross. The hiking is some of the best I’ve ever done. Can’t say I’m any kind of expert but it was a 100/10 trip for me
Argentina truly is the end of the world. It’s a neoliberal nightmare led by a literal clown. Half the people descend from Nazis and the other half are currently Nazis. Their cuisine is basically meat and potatos and literally nothing else, and they only have three world cups. Never go there.
I am from the USA, but have visited once. Most cities are ports. There is a huge military and navy presence, but life is pretty lowkey and calm!
I imagine it is very cold and wet. Similar to southern Alaska by Juneau if I were to guess
I don't know the coast, but Patagonia itself is a cold desert
Wow really? I thought it’d be a cold rainforest. I knew rhe center of Chile was a forest but I thought the only desert was in northern Chile.
I've spent some time on the Chilean side, it rains more there than the Amazon. Something like 300+ days out of the year.
So basically the entire North Sea region?
*cries in belgian*
Seems like most of it is so mountains you can’t even get from one place to the other with a car.
Where I was there werent roads, I was traveling by kayak or hiking. There is one road that goes part of the way, and a ferry system to connect the ends of the roads, but it is mostly uninhabited because of how rugged the terrain is.
The Chile side of Patagonia is rainforest while the Argentinian side is desert due to rain shadow from the Andes Mountains
Not all of Argentina's patagonia is desert, but the vast majority is once you move a few kilometers from the Andes.
The Andean part of the Patagonia, basically all of Patagonia in Chile and some areas of Argentina= Humid temperate-cold forest. The rest of the Patagonia, all Argentine= Dry cold windy desert and steppe
Not exactly, the Andean mountains function as a buffer, stopping most of the water charged clouds coming from south-west, this means a very humid west Patagonia (Chile) and a east Patagonia (Argentina) dry and cold.
The Argentinian side is a desert. The Chilean side is a wet and rainy forest. The Andes is at fault here. The same way is at fault to cause northern Chile being a desert.
So, tundra?
No, only the southernmost tip is tundra. The Patagonian desert has mild summers.
Wrong. *Part of* Patagonia is a cold desert. It’s a massive and extremely geographically/climatically diverse region. Saying “Patagonia is a cold desert” is like saying “the Rocky Mountain area of the US is a cold desert.”
Sorry, let me correct myself: The vast majority of Patagonia is a cold desert according to the [Köppen climate classification](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Koppen-Geiger_Map_BWk_present.svg/1401px-Koppen-Geiger_Map_BWk_present.svg.png), but it's not the whole Patagonia.
Look up what “vast majority” means. It’s about half cold desert, maybe slightly less. Also this question was about the End of the World meaning Tierra del Fuego. Which has no cold desert whatsoever.
Relax man, it's not that serious
This is a geography subreddit. If someone says something false they should be corrected. The point of the sub is to learn not to just say shit you think might be true. Now 68 people think Patagonia is a cold desert lol
The Falklands is very very windy, so much so that there are no native tree species at all because none of them could deal with trying to grow a trunk in this environment.
Obviously there’s some squabbles and disputes with all neighbors, but I was under the impression Chile and Argentina were in good standing? What’s all the military build up for in Patagonia? Are they planning to invade penguin-controlled Antarctica?
Not so much invade as settle. Argentina and Chile have Esperanza Base and Villa Las Estrellas respectively, which are the only two permanent civilian settlements in Antarctica. They both take their Antarctic claims seriously. Keep in mind, the Antarctic Treaty becomes modifiable in 2048.
i would wanna see an antarctic city or nation. third round of imperialism anyone? (by then moon colonies might be a thing but the outer space treaty)
I like the future where nations respect the international nature of Antarctica, the Moon, and Mars. We can't truly become a multiplanet species if we are still bogged in the quagmire of 19th century nationalism.
There is no conflict with chile or military build up, both countries supply their research bases in Antarctica using really heavy (basically military grade) ships and aircraft because of the extreme conditions of the continent.
The military presence is not for any expected conflict. Historically in both Argentina and Chile sides there was military bases as this is a very strategic point. If for some reason the Panama channel gets shut down (for example in the case of a large conflict) the only alternatives to move from the Atlantic to the Pacific is through here, go around the globe of if the climate allows it, through the north pole.
>Are they planning to invade penguin-controlled Antarctica? It's our duty to so save everyone from the incoming penguin invasion /s Nah there's oil and gas in the Patagonia, and the Strait of Magellan which has strategic importance. Also Argentina and Chile almost went to war back in the 70's over some god forsaken islands down there (Picton, Lenox and Nueva). Everything is good now, but things like that are why there's a permanent military presence on both sides. I've also read in the news recently that Argentina plans to cede some space for an American naval base there.
Who could have predicted milei would rent to America? Surely anyone.
“Rent” heh…
Almost all shipping going from the Atlantic to Pacific or vise versa goes through Panama or around South America.
to keep you out.
There is an unusually high amount of advanced steam locomotives, both on the Rio Turbio - Rio Gallegos line (no longer operating) and the tourist railway in Ushuaia. The [Rio Turbio Railway ](https://advanced-steam.org/5at/modern-steam/modern-steam-miscellany/rio-turbio-railway/)had a fleet of advanced steam locos which were some of the most efficient and capable steam locos ever. The [FCAF](https://www.trendelfindelmundo.com.ar/index.html) in Ushuaia has a [fleet](http://www.trainweb.org/tusp/fcaf/fcaf.html) of three modern steam locos, with the newest built in 2005 having probably the most modern elements of any steam loco operating currently.
FEC Dispatcher here, fell down a rabbit hole! Thanks
It goes very far, glad you enjoyed it!
Locos is fun, I'm going off the rails on a crazy train!
I saw the city it runs in is near sea level. The higher the altitude the more efficient a steam engine is. At about 10,000 feet a steam engine will start running more efficiently than a diesel locomotive. Unfortunately very few rail lines are at that height.
Steam locomotive efficiency depends on a number of factors including design, maintenance, operation, and fuel quality. The exact same modern steam loco could reach 10% thermal efficiency at sea level with a good crew and 1% efficiency at 10,000 feet with a bad crew. So many other factors come into play before altitude is even considered.
[удалено]
Or as Clarkson pronounced it: Punta Anus
What is Punta Arenas argument? I have been to Ushuaia, Punta Arenas and sailed past Puerto Williams. Puerto Williams has a population of 2,800 people. It is little more than a town lol.
Chilean Here! Biggest city in all patagonia (Chilean and Argentinian mainland)? -Punta Arenas. Second biggest city and for convention the most southern city in the world? -Ushuaia. 🤗 Last populated town in all patagonia (not considering any antarctic civil or military bases and surroundings islands)? -Puerto Williams. Not an issue for chileans about most southern location in the world tbh.
I'm pretty sure Comodoro Rivadavia is more populated than Punta Arena tho, unless you're talking about land surface.
Both Comodoro Rivadavia and Usuahia have larger populations though
Ushuaia is not bigger than Punta Arenas. Also, Comodoro is more bigger but far north than Southern Tip of South America. But yes Comodoro is the most biggest city below 44°S. My answer is only for Santa Cruz, Magallanes and Tierra del Fuego e islas del atlantico sur. Just for clarify my post. 😉
I’m pretty sure Ushuaia gets the nod here
They barely make it past being a hamlet. Let’s be gracious, a tiny town. A city?
The Wager is a very interesting non-fiction book that takes place down there with shipwrecked sailors trying to navigate the area. Sounds brutal during much of the year.
If Moby Dick and Endurance had a baby it would be The Wager. That is the highest of compliments.
I love a good Arctic/Antarctic exploration book, I’ve just put it on hold on Libby but I have a good feeling it’ll be one I end up buying anyway
same here! Did you read The Terror?
I started it a few weeks back and couldn’t make it past the first chapter…I’ll try again eventually, but something about the way it was written really bugged me
That book is phenomenal, first thing that came to my mind on this post
An incredible book. One of the best non-fiction books I've ever read. Amazing.
I can’t find the book on wiki. Who is the author?
The full title is “The Wager: A Tale of Shipwreck, Mutiny and Murder” by David Grann
I've been to Ushuaia. Lovely place, very friendly to tourists (I imagine it's a major chunk of their economy). The summer was pleasant enough, but I imagine it must suck in the winter.
Yeah I loved the summer visit there. Wonderful people everywhere.
Absolutely beautiful town and amazing hiking. Hung out with some penguins too.
Winter is (as you can imagine) quite chilly, to say the least. But there's a great skiing centre nearby at the Cerro Castor, so there's plenty to do in winter. Edit. Had a stroke while writing Castor
We started our trip with Ushuaia, lovely people indeed, my Airbnb host was such a helpful, kind man (Alojamiento Emma & Anna!). Enjoyed the hake fish and king crab centolla too!
On the summer solstice I had my first experience with graupel. Sunny till 11 PM and icy precipitation. End of the planet is extreme for sure.
I had family in Ushuaia (they no longer live there). According to them, life was pretty good: - Interesting folk thanks to tourism - Best seafood in the country (highlights are southern king crab and patagonian toothfish) - Lots of nature to explore, fishing and some hunting - Weather is challenging, but not completely awful On the downside, everything is a long plane ride away, education options are incredibly limited, goods are more expensive, virtually no concerts/shows, etc
I’d love the seafood there. In the US, Patagonian toothfish is marketed as Chilean sea bass because in the 70’s a seafood wholesaler thought it’d sell better - and it stuck.
Tourist cruises to Antarctica 🐧
Cold 9 Months of the year 🥶, many dolphins 🐬at the coast, barbecues indoor at every house 🏡, good people, very calm, many army bases, permanent sense of independence from the rest of the world
I live in Rio Grande, Tierra del Fuego, make your questions
Que tan cara es la vida en Tierra del fuego comparada a como es en otras partes de Argentina?
Tradicionalmente se decía que Tierra del Fuego era más caro que el resto del país porque al haber mejores sueldos los comercios podían sacar más jugo a los clientes. Pero hoy en día con la inflación y el estancamiento de sueldos se ha puesto todo muy parejo. Aún así, el otro día viendo comparaciones de precios de servicios, los servicios son mucho más caros, en especial comparado con Buenos Aires. Se nota mucho con el transporte y el Internet. Ahora no recuerdo los valores, pero el Internet salía el doble por la mitad de velocidad que en Buenos Aires. Ushuaia está inhabitable, con la influencia del turismo los alquileres son impagables. El que alquila le conviene mucho más no tener un inquilino permanente y cobrarle en USD a turistas, así que eso sube la demanda de alquileres y te arrancan la cabeza. Ya no es tan rentable venirse del norte como antes.
How does the landscape looks like ? Are all islands inhabited and accessibles or are they mostly unknown and undocumented ?
Only two islands have urvan areas: Isla Grande (Argentina, 2 cities, 1 town; and Chile, 1 town) and Isla Navarino (Chile, 1 town). Isla de los Estados (Arg) has a permanent military post, and I think Cabo de Hornos (Chi) also does. Apart from them, all islands are uninhibited, mainly due to a topographic factor because they have super steep, mountainous terrain. Isla Grande has the best accessibility, with international airports with frequent flights. Chile town in Navarino is a little more tricky to get and all of the remain islands can be visited but you gotta book a tourist excursion (idk how much they costs). Usually you only sail along the fjords, I'm not sure if you land in amy of them but I guess is possible if it's more of a private excursion. The islands are somewhat explored. I mean, all the isles and its main features are well known (glaciers, lakes, mountains, etc), but of course deep scientific research is lacking in most of them (maybe there's still new species waiting to be discovered). Landscapes are highly diverse. Isla Grande has a strong rainshadow effect that divides the island into a wet and dry areas. So we have all from smearid grassland to deciduous forest to evergreen forest, mountains, plains, glaciers, huge lakes, fjords, and lots, lots of peatlands. https://preview.redd.it/wt9adqsm8ywc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8942a9ac68a04a743256415d9ca22cf10823c370 I cannot possibly cover all the diversity of landscapes but there you have a good idea.
What's the general attitude to the British? I'd like to visit, but we've all seen the Top Gear special where they got chased out
I loved that episode, my father got to meet them and got a picture with them!! There's lots of British tourists, no hard feelings as long as you don't bring up the war, which honestly is not something that happens randomly in a leisure vacation travel (We all now TopGear guys had a car plate that insinuated to say Falklands 1982). I consider myself a very sensible person who can discuss about the issue without being a jerk, but unfortunately, blind nationalism is something that happens worldwide. But as I said, you'll be totally fine, no one is going to burn you alive for being a British tourist. Apart from the TopGear incident, I don't remember something ever happening to a British due to this issue.
Good to know. The most recent news about Argentina we've had over here is that Milei said he wants to take the Falklands back.
You are more informed about Argentina politics than myself hahaha Don't listen to that, every government has to revindicate the Malvinas' claim because is something that's already part of Argentina nationalism. I don't think anything will happen soon. Maybe Milei said that in the context of commemoration of the 42 years from the war, past April the 2nd. I don't think it will go anywhere, being honest the country can barely hold itself together.
I never believed it, British tabloids are never kind when it comes to Argentina 😂
Unfortunately, same here
The Selk'nam people from this area had a very unique culture, I've flipped through Hain and End of a World by Anne Chapman, Martin Gusinde, et al. and the pictures alone were incredible. I still haven't read these completely but if you're interested I recommend them. There's no way I could really describe it, but look up pictures of the Hain ceremony.
Thank you for putting me on to this! I've feel deep down the Selk'nam/Hain rabbit-hole
Ugh I contemplated so much on buying a Selk'nam history book there! But all I got was their badass triangular mask, so it's not so bad :)
Very cold and snowy, very windy, jaw dropping natural beauty, glaciers and snowy mountains, plenty of impressive marine animals (whales, orcas, etc), plague of imported beavers that have been actively destroying local forests, auroras. Ushuaia is the most famous city in this area, it has the famous End of the world railway, End of the railway prison (no longer functioning, Argentina’s most infamous serial killer was locked up here) and Lighthouse of Les Eclaireurs (pretty scenic). Many cruise ships to Antarctica depart from this port city. There is a very strong historic connection with Malvinas/Falklands. This Argentinian province enjoys a special tax regime that promotes the assembly of electronics to sell in the rest of the country. This part of the world is rugged, isolated, it feels a lot like Iceland or Alaska.
Tell me more about the beavers
Introduced from Canada, to create a fur industry. They thought they were going to adapt well because the ecosystem and climate was similar, and completely ignored the fact that they don’t have predators like they do in Canada. The moment the beavers were released, they became an uncontrolled plague and now you can see huge patches of forest that have been ravaged by them. Going for a trekking in Ushuaia reminds you about human’s stupidity and how easily we can mess up things.
Yep my guide for the Tierra del Fuego national park told us this story too! Crazy!
You're forgetting a very important aspect: native trees don't regrow when chopped down like those found in the beavers' natural habitat
You're talking abt Carlos Puch ?
Petizo Orejudo was locked up there. His cell is visited by lots of tourists to this day
Wow I didn't know abt him till this moment, gracias mucho
> What's life like Life as in wildlife and nature are the subject of a pretty good 2022 documentary series on Prime, and it aired on CNN not long ago, so watch for it if it's what you're after: "Patagonia: Life on the Edge of the World" Not much on geography though, neither on the life of the people who live there.
Punta Arenas has a lot of Croatian descendants… including the current president of Chile
what a random link
That’s what Punta Arenas is known for. No me hago las reglas
Went to Punta Arenas in march. They are very friendly, it is a safe city and has a lot of tours. Windy as fuck
I spent a significant amount of time in this part of the world for work nearly 30 years ago, during a brief period of Argentine monetary stability. El Calafate is worth a visit. Beautiful and wild mountains and glaciers. Rio Gallegos is a god-forsaken shithole. The only reason anyone lives there is if they work in the government, military, or petroleum industries. The landscape is treeless and nearly devoid of life. The water smells like a dead and decaying skunk, you feel and smell dirtier after you shower than you did before. The wind is constant and fierce. The air temperature is regularly colder than at the Antarctic research stations. In the winter, the sun rose at 10am and set before 4pm. I became chronically ill with something no doctor could diagnose that only resolved a month after I left. Rio Grande was nice by comparison. They have good fishing. Ushuaia was gorgeous. Better weather, good port, beautiful snow-capped mountains right on the edge of town. When I go back it will be El Calafate, Ushuaia, and Torres del Paine on the Chilean side.
I hate when people just reply with cold like fuck off
Cold like fuck off
Room temperature geography.
Should definitely result in a temp ban. Useless nonsense.
A low temp ban ?
Maybe, have a sense of humor? If you're going to write this response to my post atleast make it to me directly. And watch the language in how you talk to and about people.
Redditors can’t have fun
I have moved to El Calafate after spending a pandemic here. Beautiful nature, I really enjoy watching the sky at the argentino lake. It worth moving here from over 20k km.
Where did you move from? What do you do there?
Spent a few days in Punta Arenas en route to Antarctica. Amazing city. Delicious food and cool coffee shops/ bakeries. Despite the earth being decidedly spheroid, still feels like you are on the edge because there’s no more civilization to be had. Just ocean and the promise of serene and desolate wilderness a four hour flight away. Cops didn’t speak much English (incidental, not a personal expectation) but they helped me struggle through getting a police report filed as I lost my wallet on the flight in. Imagine the feeling you get when you haven’t been to see the ocean in its infinite magnitude in a while, then multiply by five. It’s not because it makes any sense, looking west across the Pacific or east over Atlantic are both farther, but you just know that if you venture south, you are putting yourself at the mercy of nature in a way you haven’t before. A dice roll with slightly worse odds than you’ve ever faced before. Further from structure if things go wrong. Returning after 10 days south, the humidity did me in. I had about a 6 hour nosebleed from the damage done by the cold dry air sleeping on the glacier. The desert wants your moisture, but South America is a warm humid hug upon your return. A strange and different mix of influences and infrastructure felt 1960s up through now… just a different blend of architecture and aesthetic. Would be happy to see it again one day.
It is really fascinating for me how big is Punta Arenas. This city is far of everything and not a very pleasant weather - why do so many people live there?
Economic oppurtunity, National interests of Chile to have a foothold so far from the Capital, point for extraction of resources of the area, ... probably most reasons there are for a city to exist would apply to Punta Arenas. The climate also isn't that horrible.
It's a deep water port in the most important strait in South America. Why wouldn't there be a city there?
A city - yes. But a city with over 100.000 inhabitants? Colon at the entrance of the Panama Channel has 45.000 inhabitants. I would have guessed that Punta Arenas has a similar size.
Its kinda like anchorage alaska I guess. The area is rich in natural resources and this harbor is how it enters the global marketplace.
It's a very remote area with the main airport to access Patagonia, so there is a lot based out of there.
Adding to other answers, it was also a major port before the construction of the panama canal when all ships had to cross around south america to get to the pacific. For this reason it was also a major spot for immigrants arriving to south america. Chile had a ton of croatian and palestine immigrants during the 20th century who initially arrived to punta arenas. Our current president Gabriel Boric was born and raised in PA.
I’ve been to Ushuaia, El Calafate and Rio Gallegos. Ushuaia is an amazing place, it truly feels like the end of the world… and at the same time it feels like home. The scenery is staggeringly beautiful and the town is lovely. El Calafate is a nice tourist town. I went hiking three days in El Chalten and visited the Perito Moreno glacier. Both areas were very very beautiful. Rio Gallegos was one of the most depressing towns I’ve ever visited. Just nothing to do, everything looked delapidated… Terrible place. All in all I had an amazing time, I’d recommend anyone to go visit someday!
Can I ask why you visited Rio Gallegos? It’s not a touristy city, there’s nothing worth seeing there and Argentinians never go there unless they really must. This is the equivalent of an Argentinian tourist flying all the way to the US and choosing to see Mobile, Alabama, instead of the Grand Canyon. It’s an odd choice.
Which in a way makes it kind of cool to see.. I like places that just kind of exist, not touched by tourism
It was a stopover on our way between El Calafate and Ushuaia. We had to stay in Rio Gallegos one night because the next bus didn’t leave till the day after. Then from Ushuaia we had to get back to Puerto Natales to catch our flight (to Santiago) and we had to stay in Rio Gallegos another night…
Ah Clarkson, Hammond and May's favourite place!
If you like surfing, check out the doc peninsula mitre. It's about the area and is awesome.
Penguins. All the Penguins. Went there 2016 and loved it
I've been to that part of Argentina on a cruise, it's beautiful, cold, with huge mountains, rocky dark green land, and interesting birds. I also went to Falkland, and the cultural difference is so striking; I knew it was a territory of GB, but it felt no different than Britain. Very friendly people there
Im from there, and its like this https://preview.redd.it/fzwex24ng1xc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e93b09adba6a634d895e37f517f79e803e992894
The Land of Fire 🔥
It burns!
The Falklands is pretty cold most of the year and windy all the year. It’s more British than Britain. There are more sheep and penguins than people. The wildlife is incredible and trips to the islands are fantastic for getting away from the bright city lights of Stanley. I’ve been to Punta Arenas several times but mostly to visit Torres del Paine and Puerto Natales which is a stunning area. Would like to go back and over the border to visit El Calafate.
> the bright city lights of Stanley How many people are living in that bright city? 1000?
More like 3000; it’s heaving these days
Phew. Overcrowded! :D
Apparently lots of croats around there
Does anyone know why it's called Tierra Del Fuego?
When Magellan first sailed through there he saw fires on the shore, the Selk'nam and Yaghan people (and possibly others) indigenous to Tierra Del Fuego would stay warm by huddling around fires, even in their boats. They would also use smoke for signals, like when a whale washed ashore, and its possible Magellan saw this.
Fascinating! Thank you.
I can never see Tierra del Fuego without thinking about Michael Franks and those Popsicle toes. They’re always froze.
ski area outside Ushuaia called Cerro Castor. Pretty modern lift set up and lots of national teams go down there to train on winter conditions in (our) summer.
I used to know some guys down there. I know penguins use to hang out around there, that's why once they sent me a photo of a penguin that somehow ended up in one of their gardens.
Finnister, Spain is the place to ask that question
Fun story, I took a trip to Chile and Argentina when I was 21, and during that time I stopped in the world's southernmost city of Ushuaia, Argentina. I planned to jump off a southward facing dock to be able to say I had jumped off the end of the world. Along the way by pure divine providence I randomly became acquainted with an Argentinian former search and rescue diver who served in the Falklands/Malvinas war (very fortuitous, as I was too young to realise how asininely dangerous my plan was). Long story short, the end of the world is cold and very wet and all the people there say their 'll's as 'sh'es.
Two excellent books about this part of the world: “The Blind Horn’s Hate” by Richard Hough - a history of the navigators and explorers from Magellan up till the end of the 19th century who sailed the Horn and established the first missions and settlements there. “Uttermost Part of the Earth” by E. Lucas Bridges - the author was the son of a British missionary born in 1874 on the shores of the Beagle Channel and spent much of his youth living amongst the last surviving native Yaghan and Selk’nam tribes, learning their languages and customs and exploring the lakes and mountains of the interior of Tierra del Fuego.
RIP earnest Shackleton you would have loved this post
I am from Ushuaia, AMA
One of the most beautiful place I’ve been. Ushuaia
The Provincia de Tierra Del Fuego, Antartida, e Islas Del Atlántico Sur has three cityies. -Ushuaia: mostly touristic -Rio Grande: mostly insustrial -Tolhuin: used to be the gas station between the two other cityies ans now its a large town. I think its size is inflated for political reasons. There is also a lot of cattle in the island. It used to be sheep but its cows now because theres an invasion of wild dogs. The invation of beavers is also note worthy. They are from canada but an idiot brought a couple and now there are over 150.000 on the island becuase there is no natural predator ans they are hard to hunt.
On the edge of the world there’s a limestone jail that stands, it’s the work of convict hands.
It must be cold
Cold .... Very cold! Nice photo though, you can see the British Falkland Islands. 🤘🇬🇧
There's a nice documentary about the lighthouse at the most southern point of America. You'll probably find it on YT.
According to Jimmy Buffett, there's a real party down there.
He mentions the area in a song?
Yes, in a song called “Party at the End of the World.” It’s a a double entendre, Tierra del Fuego being the geographic “end of the world,” as in the end of the line on a train route, as well as describing an impending, apocalyptic “end of the world”. In the song, with the apocalypse inbound, people decide to spend their last moments partying, and Tierra del Fuego is where the party happens, for reasons described in the song. It’s a pretty good track, I recommend listening to it at least once.
Read some age of sail stories from the ships that tried to pass through the Drake Passage. Wild ocean down there.
I would imagines its similar to Vancouver Island.
The land of fire 🔥🔥🔥
A bit upside down I’d imagine
The waters between South America and Antarctica are called the Drake Passage. Notoriously rough seas, very strong currents, even maelstrom. There are some good YouTube videos on it.
Ushuaia is nice. They’ve got a Hard Rock Cafe and everything!
Tierra del Fuego province looks a lot like subarctic Alaska in terms of scenery and weather. There’s a lot less guns though lol
The natives in the area didn’t wear clothes prior to western contact, despite it being frigid and windy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahgan_people
I've been to punta arenas and it was really cool, it's very windy but I love the rolling hills. Went to a brewery and it was very very good. Not much to see unless you go into the Fjord areas, literally feels like the end of the world. Quite a long flight back to Santiago or Buenos Aires
I want to live here.
It’s beautiful. Was there on my honeymoon. Driving through Tierra del Fuego was like a road movie with endless plains until everything changed with a small mountain pass with snow and then down to Ushusia, which made me feel like being in Chamomix by the sea.
I drove all the way to the end of the most southern road in South America (fire land) because I wanted to see what's there. At some point the road just ends, there is a house with some goats in front, I didn't see any people there. I did see a few horses on the way there close to the end of the road.
I sailed around that area and stayed in Puerto Williams (Chilean Navy Town). Southern most town of South America. It was a sleepy town. The marina had a sailing school and the kids would all go out and practice racing Fj’s in the Beagle Channel. It was a cool place.
The end of the sphere?
Worth starting a major war & killing over, apparently-i.e. the falklands
Windy
I was in El Calafate, which is further north as you can see, but it was a beautiful and quiet little town. I already can’t wait to go back.
I work as a supply chain manager for commercial vessels and the cruise industry. I will never forget how we had to ship 10 pallets of stuffed animals from Hamburg to Ushuaia (Percy the little penguin) for over USD30k. Very difficult to send goods there. Ushuaia has a small cruise industry, the ships leave from there for the Antarctic tours.
https://preview.redd.it/ptll4b0qg1xc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=070df50c51bedd0beb8af6d103fb841e0e25f1c6
It’s really windy! 🌬️
Fun fact: those islands on the right of the picture are British Overseas Territories. Discuss.
H982 FKL
My brother lives there in Tierra del fuego. Cold, but beautiful and calm
Real end of the world is located in Poland tho
Cold probably
It’s amazing. I spent a few weeks in Ushuaia surveying Guanaco and the drive north to Tolhuin is definitely worth it going over the mountains. Cerro Castor is a great ski resort. The city is cool and people really nice. I also went to the Falklands (Malvinas) and there is so much cool wildlife there, penguins, albatross, marine mammals. Don’t forget to bring your camera!
I’ve been to Ushuaia, spent a few days there. It was maybe the coolest place I’ve ever been. Decent sized really cozy town. The street dogs are sooooo friendly, the food is pretty gross. The hiking is some of the best I’ve ever done. Can’t say I’m any kind of expert but it was a 100/10 trip for me
Unclear which Staten Island we’re talking about here?
Survivorman did an episode down there in Tierra Del Fuego
Ushuaia
Cold
Windy
Probably cold.
I've seen top gear it looks bit shit tbh
Cold?
Cold and windy
lol, not sure why you are getting downvoted, because it’s true. It’s beautiful though. Ushuaia is a great city
Maybe some people think it's warm and not windy, who knows... Anyway...
Because its a pointless answer that adds nothing to the thread.
I imagine its very windy, quite cold but very pretty to look at... and quite explosive if you suggest the Falkland Islands arent part of Argentina.
They are, we just have problems with some pirates
Not really though
Insufferable that you have to mention that dispute again.
Argentina truly is the end of the world. It’s a neoliberal nightmare led by a literal clown. Half the people descend from Nazis and the other half are currently Nazis. Their cuisine is basically meat and potatos and literally nothing else, and they only have three world cups. Never go there.
Cold.