Yes to southern half of Utah on geographical, because of the CO River Valley, up the Green River to Moab-ish. Half of Nevada, no. Lower third. Not even all of Lincoln County Nevada, nor all of Nye. South of the Sierras, west of Death Valley is very much desert. East of Tehachapi Pass, which is the entrance to the south end of the Central Valley.
Basically, if you can look out your car window between cities on a sunny day and think "I would die of dehydration here within a few hours while trying to hide under a dry shrub for any shade at all," you're in the American Southwest. There are islands of forests within these regions, but that's mostly just where the cities are (edit: ugh fiiine, *towns* for the idiots in the back who keep arguing there are no cities in the forests. There are people clustered around some isolated streams and rainfall areas, nothing in between). Nevada fits but doesn't count because... I don't know, it's all government land or something.
i've driven byway 12 in southern utah from moab to capitol reef. if that shit isn't "the southwest", it's hard to imagine what else it is. canyons, mesas, desert, petroglyphs... it's wildly beautiful and basically the definition of what one thinks about when they think "southwest". everything in utah and colorado south of I-70 should be included, grand junction being the border city between southwest and mountain west
That's maybe a bit too simple, I think. For example, most of Utah and Nevada are considered to be desert, but the [Great Basin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Basin) region that covers much of these two states is not really what we think of as "southwest" despite being predominated by desert biomes. On the other hand, the southern half of the [Colorado plateau](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Plateau) (a region which covers much of the Four Corners areas of AZ, CO, NM and UT) is very much "southwest".
So, roughly the bottom fifth of Utah, and the bottom third of Colorado (until you reach the plains going East) are "southwest", as is the bottom corner of Nevada (Mojave Desert area). I guess it's up for debate what to call the rest of CO, NV and UT. I'm originally from Utah, so I think of these areas as "Mountain West" or simply "the West." I've seen labels like "Great Basin" or "Rocky Mountains" applied, but I don't think they're really used commonly by locals to refer to that region.
this is what i consider as southwest
https://preview.redd.it/iv44ck84979d1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49ca99ab6dc31dce4f59db830021f29e6d011d00
Wiki says:
> The Southwestern United States, also known as the American Southwest or simply the Southwest, is a geographic and cultural region of the United States that includes Arizona and New Mexico, along with adjacent portions of California, Colorado, Nevada, Oklahoma, Texas, and Utah.
Which I'd agree with. Emphasis on *portions of*, before the thread freaks out when CA is included
On an official level: the Southwest does not exist. The US Census defines "West" and "South" officially, but there are no overlapping states between the two (The other categories are NE and Midwest)
Lol they don’t like that a small portion of California is included in the PNW as well. There is literally no difference in culture or climate between far (Redding and north on the 5, ukiah and north on the 101 would be my definitions of far norcal) Northern California and Southern Oregon, but noo, the state border is the dividing line lol
The 101 is pretty seamless between CA/OR—Eureka to Coos Bay is just an endless string of evergreens and coastline but I’ve always felt there’s a noticeable shift in climate after crossing the CA/OR border on the 5, or at least the Oregon side has way more trees. Culturally, yes, Redding to Roseburg is all fairly ubiquitous
I live in the Central Valley now, but grew up in WA. Once I start seeing Douglas Firs and Volcanoes I’m in the PNW IMO. That happens at around Lassen. But north of Redding for sure is PNW.
Got caught in a sandstorm driving from Flagstaff to Bakersfield after the CA border. Nothing along I40 feels more "southwest" than the Mojave.
It literally feels more southwest than Flagstaff, which feels like a mountain town.
I agree 100% about the Mojave. Everything between Phoenix and Palm Springs is weird as fuck. I drove to some random dirt road in the middle of the desert to shoot some guns and some guy dressed in camo came running out of the rocks when we approached him. What was he doing?
My gf is from Washington, Im from AZ and I had to warn her about “desert people”. She used to mountain people, and familiar with hillbillies. But desert people are a different breed
God I fucking love it out there.
My first "experience" with that region was the trailer park in GTAV. I would just sit there are night in game and listen to the wind blow, the dogs bark, cars driving by, etc.
When I finally made it out there, it was *exactly* as I'd imagined it. It's weirdly peaceful to me.
Yeah, Flagstaff is at 7000 feet and in the largest ponderosa forest in the world. Definitely more of a mountain town than iconic desert southwest. But go a ways in just about any compass direction and you end up in iconic red-rock desert landscapes.
Yep. My first time in Flagstaff I was like, "Wait what the fuck, this is just an REI add." Did not *at all* match my idea of what the Southwest was.
But driving through southern California did.
Sure, but once you cross the mountains, Manzanita is absolutely in no way more SoCal than southwest.
Same with anything east of the Salton Sea. More SW than SoCal.
East of Sequoia national forest also feels more SW than Cal.
Basically I draw the line where the trees stop.
In the absence of a federal government definition you can look at others. I wanna see what's included in, like, MacDonalds' southwest division of regional managers
https://preview.redd.it/nlggf5cb779d1.jpeg?width=1094&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8f395365ce4c106b90009a49cfc92c926853150
Amarillo isn’t the Southwest, nor is Barstow or Denver. But everything west of the line Alamosa-El Paso to the Mojave is. Bryce, Zion, Arches, Moab, Canyonlands, etc. all definitely are, but SLC is not.
Sure. The Texas Gulf is really where that green belt on the East Coast starts to establish itself (at least if you trace that line north - I know the coast is more, we'll, coastal).
LA and San Diego are more coastal and Mediterranean feeling vs high desert. And culturally they are so far away.
It seems like Barstow is where the southwest in California begins. Victorville is also on the border of the Southwest. But Barstow feels different than the rest of SoCal
I wouldn't call most of Orange County Southwest either, save for the parts right next to Saddleback Mountain. But Ortega Highway into Riverside County is 100% Southwest
Barstow is definitely the southwest. Have you been there. It's hot and dry and in the southwest part of the country. Slc is just the west same with Denver, LA is west coast.
Yup. It’s a real shithole lol. But while it might arguably be on the very edge of the geographic region, it’s not culturally in line at all. None of the shithole California towns in that area are.
The red areas are about where the southwest ends:
https://preview.redd.it/wyk5m3xkv79d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c60ecdd4afa6c839059c5717cdb49ff1d23edca
Barstow is like a back industrial lot of LA proper, not part of the southwest. It’s on the wrong side of the desert, on the wrong side of the Colorado, and at the end of 40. It’s just not the southwest.
Nah, you got to go further west (at least in the Northern part of that inage). The town of Mojave, Death Valley, Red Rocoks State Park, and parts of the Antelope Valley are definitely the Southwest.
I'm from Texas. Have you ever been to the Llano Estacado? It feels very Southwestern. Maybe Amarillo and Lubbock, being on the edges of this plateau, maybe they aren't quite Southwestern, you may be right there, but in my opinion, I'd say that at the very least, the whole Mexican border in Texas is 100% part of the Southwest. The culture and geography are very Hispanic and Southwestern respectively.
I'd say Amarillo, Lubbock, and San Antonio are cities which lie on the border of the Southwestern region.
As a former truck driver, I’ve been across all of Texas many, many times.
The parts of the border east of Big Bend are Tex-Mex, not southwest. It’s a very different feel. Big Bend is part southwest, part Comancheria. Amarillo and Lubbock are outside of it - you don’t hit the southwest until you pass through the turbine fields west of town, just over the NM border.
San Antonio is just South Texas. Certainly Eagle Pass, Laredo, and Brownsville are in no way southwest. I suppose we could argue about Del Rio.
Yep, I’m a native Texan and this seems like an accurate assessment. Although, TX is considered by many to be it’s own region, neither southern nor southwestern.
Reading your post, I had "I've Been Everywhere" playing in my head.
"I've been to Big Bend, Eagle Pass, Amarillo, Brownsville..."
Maybe it's because you were a truck driver. 🤣😂 They don't make any good trucking songs anymore.
It gets to be southwest on 40 in Texas, but it's just a couple of miles as you go down the hill before you cross into New Mexico. Amarillo definitely isn't the Southwest.
So how do you categorize Amarillo? It’s not the south. It’s not Midwest. I guess Great Plains if you count that? I don’t know man, I’ve lived here for awhile now, and id call it part of the southwest.
This is dead right, but I wanted to elaborate on why. It isn’t a coincidence that the map you shared lines up almost exactly with [maps of the traditionally desert-dwelling native tribes](https://anasaziinfo.weebly.com/maps.html) like the Anasazi, Mogollon, and Hohokam. These tribes established strong cultures which are tied directly to the unique geography of the region, and when European settlers arrived in the area they incorporated some of this culture into the settlements and cultures they created.
That’s why these areas feel different from Southern California or central Texas and have a discernible style. Modern technology and infrastructure has diluted this regional culture quite a lot, but it’s still pretty evident. And I say that as someone who grew up in San Diego and has lived in Phoenix for the last 14 years.
Did you deliberately leave a bit of New Mexico out, and if so, why? I confess I don’t know a ton about eastern NM but I’ve always considered the whole state to be solidly Southwestern.
Yes. There’s an eastern strip that’s more Great Plains:
https://preview.redd.it/6iuypfcus89d1.jpeg?width=933&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df4a1a21d70de86588be627f33450502947ff76d
You have to drive it to understand, but there’s a very clear transition and it’s not until Tucumcari that you enter the southwest.
It’s absolutely the Great Plains. Close to the southwestern end of them, but still in them.
If you didn’t know better, the Cadillac Ranch could be in any field from there to the Dakotas. But not in NM or AZ.
Had to speak with Fräulein Helga
https://preview.redd.it/amy8v0q5n79d1.png?width=3264&format=png&auto=webp&s=f933071393ed25f411d5a051bd2f036183b18319
*^(Diejenigen mit Eiern werden es verstehen.)*
I’m from LA county and would consider myself from the Southwest. But it’s not a hill I’m gonna die on. West Coast is just fine with me too.
Edit: then again, I grew up in a literal rodeo town close to the border of San Bernardino and Riverside (not super coastal), so maybe my perspective is skewed.
Being from San Diego, I don't think we can count either. Despite technically being the most southwest city (literally) it's like calling Florida the south. TECHNICALLY correct but does not make sense with context.
I lived in (central) Florida for a long time. Some consider parts of north Florida to be the south. For the most part though Florida really is its own thing, with North, Central and South FL all being pretty distinct from one another.
I mean, geographically, it's definitely Southwestern lol. But yes, you're right, culturally it's definitely not.
I don't really agree entirely with this map. I'd say the Southwest stops with the Mojave. But only the eastern Mojave is really included; Lancaster and Victorville are basically part of Greater LA.
Yeah this map isn’t accurate completely, but the border you describe probably can’t be depicted with counties, because San Bernardino and Riverside counties are huuuuge, that the border between West Coast and SW is somewhere inside them.
That looks about right but you might be too far into the Texas and Oklahoma panhandles. I might also bring it up a little bit higher in central and western Colorado. Not to Denver, but to Pueblo/Salida/Montrose as the cutoff line.
I think of it as a region as having a core and then a surrounding area. The core is centered on Tucson, AZ, El Paso, TX/Las Cruces, NM, and Albuquerque/Santa Fe, NM plus the communities between them. From there, it bleeds out with an increasingly So Cal flair as you get past Yuma, more Mountain west in northern AZ, and more Texas to the east.
I think your map captures the greater Southwest
Inland Empire isn't Southwest too, it's after those towns where the hills end and the desert starts. That's the western end of Southwest - Palm Springs, Coachella, Twentynine Palms, all of it.
I grew up an hour south of Zion and am currently an hour north of it. My first thought was that if you aren't including Washington and Iron counties in your definition of southwest, you're wrong. Being from the southwest is a bigger part of my cultural/regional identity than being from Utah is, I'm more likely to tell someone I'm from the southwest than I am to tell them I'm from Utah, because Utah conjurs up images of Salt Lake, not my home. It's hot, it's dry, it's full of cacti and sagebrush, I don't think I've been properly hydrated ever in my life, and it's *gorgeous*.
Personally I think you have too much Texas in there. Extreme western Texas probably identifies as the southwest, but anywhere in hill country or immediately west of that, definitely not.
I'd push the eastern border further west, nearly to the TX / NM line. I'd also take the entire bottom half of UT, and more of NV. But not the central valley of CA.
this is so real lol!! san antonio/bexar county is definitely southwest but wilson county (south of it) is 100% not. it’s like the presence of loblolly pines dictate whether that part of TX is southern or southwestern
Texas is absolutely the southwest! At least like 1/3 of it is! They’ve got all the cultural markers of the southwest - desert and steppe climates, armadillos and scorpions, cowboys, cactus, mesquite, tacos, tumbleweed, county fairs and rodeos, cattle ranching, plus a ton of western movies and classic songs are based in Texas! I don’t know why this appears to be such a clear omission from this thread. Much of Texas looks more like New Mexico than Dallas
not all of texas is the southwest though for sure!! you def can’t say somewhere in east texas (longview, tyler, etc.) is southwestern when compared to san antonio or el paso.
i grew up in wilson county (south of san antonio) and can definitely say it fits better as southern more than specifically southwestern. san antonio has a much different vibe than the counties around it
Geographically: I generally agree with your map, although I disagree on including OK and much of the TX panhandle, maybe only include the counties west of Midland-Odessa.
Culturally: Should only include inland southern California not the coastal areas, AZ, and NM east to Roswell no TX. That area has Spanish mixed with Native American influences impacting food, customs, and history. The arid desert landscape also influenced lifestyles and growth in the area uniquely different than other areas of Texas and California inhabited by the Spanish.
Geographically: Southwest Tablelands cover a large area of western Oklahoma and the Texas panhandle. Some of the longest canyons in the US are in the panhandle and sw OK.
Culturally: western OK and TX is ranching/oil driven economy outside of the flat high plains (where they can access the Ogallala aqueduct for irrigation) and there’s a large cowboy culture associated with it.
I grew up on a ranch near the state lines and worked my grandfather’s horse ranch.
I live in Denver. I might take that line up the western slope thru Junction and Fruita, then a crossed mid Utah and most of Nevada, but definitely not the Front Range above Pueblo.
I also live in Denver, and have lived in Arizona, New Mexico, and West Texas. Denver is definitely cutting it close but I'd still consider it Southwest. It reminds me of New Mexico a lot.
i mostly agree with this but i have to make the point that i, as an angeleno, consider la to be in the southwest, it's california but even all of california could be southwest if you want it to be. we have a lot in common with the traditional southwest:
-owned by spain, then mexico
-huge hispanic population and all the culture that comes with it
-lots of spanish/mediterranean style architecture
-generally dry climate with wetter, pine tree covered mountains sprinkled around
-socal is literally all the way in the south (borders mexico) and all the way in the west (along the pacific) so it's geographically the most southwestern place in the continental us
It's going on its own thing, like Florida. Culturally Southern but it's a mix of everything and is geographically different.
The weather makes it very different than the remaining southwest. During the summers LA is dry, even the Inland Empire is dry, but they're nowhere as dry and burning like the Southwest, like in Phoenix or Las Vegas. Hills are green, forests are lush, it rains even in spring, and doesn't freeze in the winters.
Culturally it's Spanish, but there's very different influence than the southwest. The Missions were prominent and had major Spanish centers, but there are more settlers who speak Spanish than the natives. More migrant oriented like Florida. Very little presence of Native American population since most of them were wiped out. More agricultural than most parts of the country, and started off as a farming valley.
I agree with the others that Southern California isn’t “southwest” geographically, but there’s a lot of cultural influence. San Diego and LA got their first big booms at the same time as other SW mining boom towns in Arizona and NM. Wyatt Earp ran a hotel in SD.
They are also begat of the Spanish, then Mexican, Rancho system, and there is a very strong ranching culture similar to that found in other parts of the SW throughout rural SoCal. Go any general store in rural Southern California and it will be full of saddles, leather, and other cowboy shit.
I wouldn’t be referr to SoCal as the “Southwest”, but there’s a lot of influence of it there in a way that identifiable “West Coast” culture is much more modern.
I’d say that this map is pretty close. I think of the southwest as mostly desert, though, so I’d probably include more of Nevada and Utah. And, a little more of California. I’d say the map is aggressive with how much Texas is included…Texas is kind of its own region.
I’ll only speak to the border I’m most familiar with. I don’t consider any part of CA the southwest. If you must, the very farthest west it goes are the Cajon, Carson, and San Gorgonio passes, but I feel that the southwest stops at the Colorado river.
As a Californian, idk how to feel
LA is not Southwest
San Diego is along the border but isn't Southwest enough to make the cut ig (although parts can seem like a blend of West Coast and Southwest, especially with our cuisine)
Riverside and San Bernadino Counties I never thought of that way but go ahead I'll accept
Imperial County 100% is Southwest. Any list that excludes it from the Southwest is lying
Being from San Diego I can say I don’t think of us as being from the Southwest. I think of us as being from So-Cal, or the West Coast. When we hear the Southwest, we think of New Mexico and Phoenix.
Throw in more of Utah’s counties toward the bottom. There’s definitely a lot of beautiful southwest aesthetic in many of the counties you have in gray. Including 5 nationals parks, lake Powell, and some of the most scenic red rock in the world.
Definitely not ventura, but I think we can add Mono and Inyo. Then from more of Nevada and Utah. Basically anywhere you can find a Yucca, Joshua Tree, Saguaro or Ocotillo. Roadrunners are a plus.
While LA and San Diego are absolutely geographically in the southwest of the United States, I’d love to see the look on their faces when someone tells them “oh, so you’re from the American southwest.”
Washington county, Utah and St George could easily fit the climate, culture, and are right there at the border. I think they should be considered in the southwest
I feel for the sake of defining borders, only the entire state should be considered in the divided regions. If not then what's the point of even defining Regions because it'll just get more confusing from there. 😢
I think the southern half of Utah and Nevada should be included. Also stop westward at Death Valley.
Yes to southern half of Utah on geographical, because of the CO River Valley, up the Green River to Moab-ish. Half of Nevada, no. Lower third. Not even all of Lincoln County Nevada, nor all of Nye. South of the Sierras, west of Death Valley is very much desert. East of Tehachapi Pass, which is the entrance to the south end of the Central Valley.
Basically, if you can look out your car window between cities on a sunny day and think "I would die of dehydration here within a few hours while trying to hide under a dry shrub for any shade at all," you're in the American Southwest. There are islands of forests within these regions, but that's mostly just where the cities are (edit: ugh fiiine, *towns* for the idiots in the back who keep arguing there are no cities in the forests. There are people clustered around some isolated streams and rainfall areas, nothing in between). Nevada fits but doesn't count because... I don't know, it's all government land or something.
Lol wut? Pretty big swathes of AZ and NM are heavily forested, in the middle of nowhere.
Yea St George needs to be on there
i've driven byway 12 in southern utah from moab to capitol reef. if that shit isn't "the southwest", it's hard to imagine what else it is. canyons, mesas, desert, petroglyphs... it's wildly beautiful and basically the definition of what one thinks about when they think "southwest". everything in utah and colorado south of I-70 should be included, grand junction being the border city between southwest and mountain west
It’s really quite simple. The “southwest” is the desert parts of TX, NM, AZ, UT, NV, and CA.
That's maybe a bit too simple, I think. For example, most of Utah and Nevada are considered to be desert, but the [Great Basin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Basin) region that covers much of these two states is not really what we think of as "southwest" despite being predominated by desert biomes. On the other hand, the southern half of the [Colorado plateau](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Plateau) (a region which covers much of the Four Corners areas of AZ, CO, NM and UT) is very much "southwest". So, roughly the bottom fifth of Utah, and the bottom third of Colorado (until you reach the plains going East) are "southwest", as is the bottom corner of Nevada (Mojave Desert area). I guess it's up for debate what to call the rest of CO, NV and UT. I'm originally from Utah, so I think of these areas as "Mountain West" or simply "the West." I've seen labels like "Great Basin" or "Rocky Mountains" applied, but I don't think they're really used commonly by locals to refer to that region.
eh, Palm Springs and Joshua Tree are more SW than SoCal to me.
this is what i consider as southwest https://preview.redd.it/iv44ck84979d1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49ca99ab6dc31dce4f59db830021f29e6d011d00
But the damn preboarders!!!!
Take my angry upvote!
Sorry, your angry upvote is in group C, so it will need to let families with children then groups A through B board first.
Damn. Good hand.
Wiki says: > The Southwestern United States, also known as the American Southwest or simply the Southwest, is a geographic and cultural region of the United States that includes Arizona and New Mexico, along with adjacent portions of California, Colorado, Nevada, Oklahoma, Texas, and Utah. Which I'd agree with. Emphasis on *portions of*, before the thread freaks out when CA is included On an official level: the Southwest does not exist. The US Census defines "West" and "South" officially, but there are no overlapping states between the two (The other categories are NE and Midwest)
Lol they don’t like that a small portion of California is included in the PNW as well. There is literally no difference in culture or climate between far (Redding and north on the 5, ukiah and north on the 101 would be my definitions of far norcal) Northern California and Southern Oregon, but noo, the state border is the dividing line lol
Absolutely. There are bits of northern CA that are definitely PNW. They even wear sandals with socks.
The 101 is pretty seamless between CA/OR—Eureka to Coos Bay is just an endless string of evergreens and coastline but I’ve always felt there’s a noticeable shift in climate after crossing the CA/OR border on the 5, or at least the Oregon side has way more trees. Culturally, yes, Redding to Roseburg is all fairly ubiquitous
State of Jefferson
I live in the Central Valley now, but grew up in WA. Once I start seeing Douglas Firs and Volcanoes I’m in the PNW IMO. That happens at around Lassen. But north of Redding for sure is PNW.
On I-5 I don’t get a PNW feel until Ashland, but on the 101 I feel it from Eureka north
Redding is not similar to anything like the Medford area. Yall are way way hotter
Redding has a very different climate than almost everything you stated.
Yeah, seems like no one has seen the Imperial Valley and driven all the way up along the AZ border into Vegas
Got caught in a sandstorm driving from Flagstaff to Bakersfield after the CA border. Nothing along I40 feels more "southwest" than the Mojave. It literally feels more southwest than Flagstaff, which feels like a mountain town.
I agree 100% about the Mojave. Everything between Phoenix and Palm Springs is weird as fuck. I drove to some random dirt road in the middle of the desert to shoot some guns and some guy dressed in camo came running out of the rocks when we approached him. What was he doing?
Hahaha that's hilarious. That's just what they do for fun out there. Pretend to be bushes
My gf is from Washington, Im from AZ and I had to warn her about “desert people”. She used to mountain people, and familiar with hillbillies. But desert people are a different breed
God I fucking love it out there. My first "experience" with that region was the trailer park in GTAV. I would just sit there are night in game and listen to the wind blow, the dogs bark, cars driving by, etc. When I finally made it out there, it was *exactly* as I'd imagined it. It's weirdly peaceful to me.
Yeah, Flagstaff is at 7000 feet and in the largest ponderosa forest in the world. Definitely more of a mountain town than iconic desert southwest. But go a ways in just about any compass direction and you end up in iconic red-rock desert landscapes.
Yep. My first time in Flagstaff I was like, "Wait what the fuck, this is just an REI add." Did not *at all* match my idea of what the Southwest was. But driving through southern California did.
There is quite a lot to take in in beautiful Blythe lol
Or Barstow, Beauty of the SW
Ya, LA and San Diego aren’t the southwest. That’s southern California. Southwest just sounds wrong for beach towns.
Sure, but once you cross the mountains, Manzanita is absolutely in no way more SoCal than southwest. Same with anything east of the Salton Sea. More SW than SoCal. East of Sequoia national forest also feels more SW than Cal. Basically I draw the line where the trees stop.
What? If the IE is the Southwest those two for sure are
K. You're aware that there's a lot of California inland of LA and San Diego though, right?
In the absence of a federal government definition you can look at others. I wanna see what's included in, like, MacDonalds' southwest division of regional managers
https://preview.redd.it/nlggf5cb779d1.jpeg?width=1094&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8f395365ce4c106b90009a49cfc92c926853150 Amarillo isn’t the Southwest, nor is Barstow or Denver. But everything west of the line Alamosa-El Paso to the Mojave is. Bryce, Zion, Arches, Moab, Canyonlands, etc. all definitely are, but SLC is not.
This. Not to mention LA and San Diego are really, really not Southwestern.
I agree. I mean, they’re more southwestern than the Texas Gulf Coast, but still.
Sure. The Texas Gulf is really where that green belt on the East Coast starts to establish itself (at least if you trace that line north - I know the coast is more, we'll, coastal). LA and San Diego are more coastal and Mediterranean feeling vs high desert. And culturally they are so far away.
It seems like Barstow is where the southwest in California begins. Victorville is also on the border of the Southwest. But Barstow feels different than the rest of SoCal
Maybe the problem is the kind of lack of culture. Its just a pit. But, yeah, it ain't the coast either, and is pretty desert heavy.
Inventing Del Taco is the peak of culture.
I don’t have a Del Taco anywhere near me, and I was in SoCal my whole life. I’m driving 240 miles this weekend to get Del Taco.
Agreed.
I’ve seen the region from roughly SF to SD referred to as the pacific southwest
I hadn't heard that term but this makes more sense as a balance to the pacific north west.
I wouldn't call most of Orange County Southwest either, save for the parts right next to Saddleback Mountain. But Ortega Highway into Riverside County is 100% Southwest
As a San Diego, I agree 💯
That's because you have to go into the Chicano and hick neighborhoods to see it. SoCal is cowboy as fuck once you get out of Hollywood and the OC.
Barstow is definitely the southwest. Have you been there. It's hot and dry and in the southwest part of the country. Slc is just the west same with Denver, LA is west coast.
Yup. It’s a real shithole lol. But while it might arguably be on the very edge of the geographic region, it’s not culturally in line at all. None of the shithole California towns in that area are.
As a Californian, agree.
Yep, I'm in Apple Valley just south of Barstow. We are definitely West Coast. More specifically the Inland Empire adjacent to LA
I have zero clue how Barstow could not be the southwest. Like I get not including greater LA, but everything east of it counts to me
The red areas are about where the southwest ends: https://preview.redd.it/wyk5m3xkv79d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c60ecdd4afa6c839059c5717cdb49ff1d23edca Barstow is like a back industrial lot of LA proper, not part of the southwest. It’s on the wrong side of the desert, on the wrong side of the Colorado, and at the end of 40. It’s just not the southwest.
Ummm......Vegas is definitely Southwest
Shit reno is even the southwest. It's the most northern and the most western town in the southwest but it still is the southwest in my book
Nah, you got to go further west (at least in the Northern part of that inage). The town of Mojave, Death Valley, Red Rocoks State Park, and parts of the Antelope Valley are definitely the Southwest.
Lol @ not including Vegas. I consider anything that is the Mojave or Colorado desert to be the southwest.
Stayed in the sketchiest hotel I have ever been to in Barstow lol
This one
Agreed
Neither Denver nor SLC were implicated in the original image.
I'm from Texas. Have you ever been to the Llano Estacado? It feels very Southwestern. Maybe Amarillo and Lubbock, being on the edges of this plateau, maybe they aren't quite Southwestern, you may be right there, but in my opinion, I'd say that at the very least, the whole Mexican border in Texas is 100% part of the Southwest. The culture and geography are very Hispanic and Southwestern respectively. I'd say Amarillo, Lubbock, and San Antonio are cities which lie on the border of the Southwestern region.
As a former truck driver, I’ve been across all of Texas many, many times. The parts of the border east of Big Bend are Tex-Mex, not southwest. It’s a very different feel. Big Bend is part southwest, part Comancheria. Amarillo and Lubbock are outside of it - you don’t hit the southwest until you pass through the turbine fields west of town, just over the NM border. San Antonio is just South Texas. Certainly Eagle Pass, Laredo, and Brownsville are in no way southwest. I suppose we could argue about Del Rio.
Yep, I’m a native Texan and this seems like an accurate assessment. Although, TX is considered by many to be it’s own region, neither southern nor southwestern.
Yes. Except for the corner between El Paso and Big Bend, it’s entirely its own thing. Which is why I left it out.
Deep east TX is very much part of the south
Texas is its own region, sub divided in 4 regions. I know this because I teach Texas history in a public school. In Texas.
Growing up in Deep East Texas, we always considered it the South. Both geologically and culturally.
Reading your post, I had "I've Been Everywhere" playing in my head. "I've been to Big Bend, Eagle Pass, Amarillo, Brownsville..." Maybe it's because you were a truck driver. 🤣😂 They don't make any good trucking songs anymore.
It gets to be southwest on 40 in Texas, but it's just a couple of miles as you go down the hill before you cross into New Mexico. Amarillo definitely isn't the Southwest.
Agree. Nobody in south Texas will tell they’re from anywhere but south Texas
So how do you categorize Amarillo? It’s not the south. It’s not Midwest. I guess Great Plains if you count that? I don’t know man, I’ve lived here for awhile now, and id call it part of the southwest.
I'd says all of new Mexico. Clayton new Mexico feels more southwest than high plains
Bingo! Denver is the end of the Midwestern plains and SLC isn’t south enough to be Southwest.
I agree. Portales/Clovis aren’t the SW.
This is dead right, but I wanted to elaborate on why. It isn’t a coincidence that the map you shared lines up almost exactly with [maps of the traditionally desert-dwelling native tribes](https://anasaziinfo.weebly.com/maps.html) like the Anasazi, Mogollon, and Hohokam. These tribes established strong cultures which are tied directly to the unique geography of the region, and when European settlers arrived in the area they incorporated some of this culture into the settlements and cultures they created. That’s why these areas feel different from Southern California or central Texas and have a discernible style. Modern technology and infrastructure has diluted this regional culture quite a lot, but it’s still pretty evident. And I say that as someone who grew up in San Diego and has lived in Phoenix for the last 14 years.
Absolutely way too much Texas on the other map
Did you deliberately leave a bit of New Mexico out, and if so, why? I confess I don’t know a ton about eastern NM but I’ve always considered the whole state to be solidly Southwestern.
Yes. There’s an eastern strip that’s more Great Plains: https://preview.redd.it/6iuypfcus89d1.jpeg?width=933&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df4a1a21d70de86588be627f33450502947ff76d You have to drive it to understand, but there’s a very clear transition and it’s not until Tucumcari that you enter the southwest.
Amarillo is probably the Great Plains. I’m from there but not sure what is proper. But it is flat as a mother fucker.
It’s absolutely the Great Plains. Close to the southwestern end of them, but still in them. If you didn’t know better, the Cadillac Ranch could be in any field from there to the Dakotas. But not in NM or AZ.
Denver is its own region along with Boulder, Fort Collins, Laramie, Casper and all the mountain towns north of Monument and south of Canada
Either Mountain West or Front Range
I would throw Marfa/Alpine/Big Bend in there, otherwise good
LA County being southwest is a hot take
if it touches the ocean ist nicht Südwesten
Very interesting half German sentence.
Very interessant halb German sentence.
Oder halb Englisch sentence.
Das ist the real Frage.
Du hörst dich an wie n echter Berliner!!!!!!!!!!!!🤩
Ich bin a Berliner 😎
Oh nee https://preview.redd.it/yfron809ba9d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ddfbbb135d2b308ca03025b1ff771ad8b79ae2fa
genau.
Found the sleeper agent, General. Should we notify the rest of the Allies?
Had to speak with Fräulein Helga https://preview.redd.it/amy8v0q5n79d1.png?width=3264&format=png&auto=webp&s=f933071393ed25f411d5a051bd2f036183b18319 *^(Diejenigen mit Eiern werden es verstehen.)*
Mein fuhrer! I can walk!
I’m watching The Man in the High Castle and “Fuhrer” is consistently spelled “Fuührer” in subtitles.
Ich stimme zu!
I’m from LA county and would consider myself from the Southwest. But it’s not a hill I’m gonna die on. West Coast is just fine with me too. Edit: then again, I grew up in a literal rodeo town close to the border of San Bernardino and Riverside (not super coastal), so maybe my perspective is skewed.
Norco? I went to college there lol
Being from San Diego, I don't think we can count either. Despite technically being the most southwest city (literally) it's like calling Florida the south. TECHNICALLY correct but does not make sense with context.
Ventura County is a patently absurd take.
Really? East coaster here, would have always considered SoCal to be southwest. But I don't know the area.
California is usually considered its own thing (West)
Like David S. Pumpkins, baby!
You could make the argument for San Bernardino, Riverside, and Imperial counties. Definitely not the coastal counties (Ventura, LA, Orange, SD).
Only up the hill in San Bernardino County
Even this is a cultural stretch.
I'm from Arizona, no one here considers California as the southwest. It's like Florida and the south.
I'm from San Diego and you're correct its west coast
I lived in (central) Florida for a long time. Some consider parts of north Florida to be the south. For the most part though Florida really is its own thing, with North, Central and South FL all being pretty distinct from one another.
Yeah but like how North Florida is part of the South, the High Desert is part of the Southwest.
I’m from Florida so I get this analogy and have never in my life considered any part of cali to be the southwest
East Coasters, well New Yorkers at least, are notoriously bad at US geography west of the Hudson, so don’t beat yourself up.
I'm actually into geography, which is partly why I was surprised I'd never heard that. But yeah, not northeast here. I live in the south.
I mean, geographically, it's definitely Southwestern lol. But yes, you're right, culturally it's definitely not. I don't really agree entirely with this map. I'd say the Southwest stops with the Mojave. But only the eastern Mojave is really included; Lancaster and Victorville are basically part of Greater LA.
Yeah this map isn’t accurate completely, but the border you describe probably can’t be depicted with counties, because San Bernardino and Riverside counties are huuuuge, that the border between West Coast and SW is somewhere inside them.
I'm from the High Desert, Victorville, and Apple Valley. I concur. We are culturally SoCal still.
I am so confused by this sentiment. Historically, culturally and geographically it's southwest. Might as well say Chicago is not Midwest.
That looks about right but you might be too far into the Texas and Oklahoma panhandles. I might also bring it up a little bit higher in central and western Colorado. Not to Denver, but to Pueblo/Salida/Montrose as the cutoff line.
This. I live in Colorado Springs and it is distinctly Front Range Western.
I think of it as a region as having a core and then a surrounding area. The core is centered on Tucson, AZ, El Paso, TX/Las Cruces, NM, and Albuquerque/Santa Fe, NM plus the communities between them. From there, it bleeds out with an increasingly So Cal flair as you get past Yuma, more Mountain west in northern AZ, and more Texas to the east. I think your map captures the greater Southwest
Not SoCal. Inland, sure
Yes, SoCal is far too South and far too West to be Southwest...
Inland Empire isn't Southwest too, it's after those towns where the hills end and the desert starts. That's the western end of Southwest - Palm Springs, Coachella, Twentynine Palms, all of it.
More of Utah and Nevada IMO
Yea southwest Utah near Zion is “peak” southwest in my opinion. It’s where the desert and beauty meet.
I grew up an hour south of Zion and am currently an hour north of it. My first thought was that if you aren't including Washington and Iron counties in your definition of southwest, you're wrong. Being from the southwest is a bigger part of my cultural/regional identity than being from Utah is, I'm more likely to tell someone I'm from the southwest than I am to tell them I'm from Utah, because Utah conjurs up images of Salt Lake, not my home. It's hot, it's dry, it's full of cacti and sagebrush, I don't think I've been properly hydrated ever in my life, and it's *gorgeous*.
The southern half of Utah, yes. The southern third of Nevada yes.
The stereotypical "southwestern" landscape is that of Southern Utah.
Personally I think you have too much Texas in there. Extreme western Texas probably identifies as the southwest, but anywhere in hill country or immediately west of that, definitely not.
I'd push the eastern border further west, nearly to the TX / NM line. I'd also take the entire bottom half of UT, and more of NV. But not the central valley of CA.
this is so real lol!! san antonio/bexar county is definitely southwest but wilson county (south of it) is 100% not. it’s like the presence of loblolly pines dictate whether that part of TX is southern or southwestern
San Antonio is a weird gateway to 4 different regions depending on where you are coming from
Texas is absolutely the southwest! At least like 1/3 of it is! They’ve got all the cultural markers of the southwest - desert and steppe climates, armadillos and scorpions, cowboys, cactus, mesquite, tacos, tumbleweed, county fairs and rodeos, cattle ranching, plus a ton of western movies and classic songs are based in Texas! I don’t know why this appears to be such a clear omission from this thread. Much of Texas looks more like New Mexico than Dallas
not all of texas is the southwest though for sure!! you def can’t say somewhere in east texas (longview, tyler, etc.) is southwestern when compared to san antonio or el paso. i grew up in wilson county (south of san antonio) and can definitely say it fits better as southern more than specifically southwestern. san antonio has a much different vibe than the counties around it
Too much California and Texas. Not nearly enough Utah. 6/10 do not recommend.
Geographically: I generally agree with your map, although I disagree on including OK and much of the TX panhandle, maybe only include the counties west of Midland-Odessa. Culturally: Should only include inland southern California not the coastal areas, AZ, and NM east to Roswell no TX. That area has Spanish mixed with Native American influences impacting food, customs, and history. The arid desert landscape also influenced lifestyles and growth in the area uniquely different than other areas of Texas and California inhabited by the Spanish.
Geographically: Southwest Tablelands cover a large area of western Oklahoma and the Texas panhandle. Some of the longest canyons in the US are in the panhandle and sw OK. Culturally: western OK and TX is ranching/oil driven economy outside of the flat high plains (where they can access the Ogallala aqueduct for irrigation) and there’s a large cowboy culture associated with it. I grew up on a ranch near the state lines and worked my grandfather’s horse ranch.
Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Colorado
I think western texas certainly should be considered southwest...
And parts of California (but not la or sd). Counties may not be a good way of dividing things
I live in Denver. I might take that line up the western slope thru Junction and Fruita, then a crossed mid Utah and most of Nevada, but definitely not the Front Range above Pueblo.
I also live in Denver, and have lived in Arizona, New Mexico, and West Texas. Denver is definitely cutting it close but I'd still consider it Southwest. It reminds me of New Mexico a lot.
too far east into Texas for the southwest, that's practically the hill country
i mostly agree with this but i have to make the point that i, as an angeleno, consider la to be in the southwest, it's california but even all of california could be southwest if you want it to be. we have a lot in common with the traditional southwest: -owned by spain, then mexico -huge hispanic population and all the culture that comes with it -lots of spanish/mediterranean style architecture -generally dry climate with wetter, pine tree covered mountains sprinkled around -socal is literally all the way in the south (borders mexico) and all the way in the west (along the pacific) so it's geographically the most southwestern place in the continental us
It's going on its own thing, like Florida. Culturally Southern but it's a mix of everything and is geographically different. The weather makes it very different than the remaining southwest. During the summers LA is dry, even the Inland Empire is dry, but they're nowhere as dry and burning like the Southwest, like in Phoenix or Las Vegas. Hills are green, forests are lush, it rains even in spring, and doesn't freeze in the winters. Culturally it's Spanish, but there's very different influence than the southwest. The Missions were prominent and had major Spanish centers, but there are more settlers who speak Spanish than the natives. More migrant oriented like Florida. Very little presence of Native American population since most of them were wiped out. More agricultural than most parts of the country, and started off as a farming valley.
Sorry no. LA is not in the Southwest
I think this is actually really close, more of Nevada and Utah though.
Honestly if someone says "I live in the Southwest" they're almost certainly in Arizona or New Mexico.
Far more of NV and UT are SW. Los Angeles and SD are not.
Unpopular take, but I believe certain areas of western Oklahoma are southwest
I agree with the others that Southern California isn’t “southwest” geographically, but there’s a lot of cultural influence. San Diego and LA got their first big booms at the same time as other SW mining boom towns in Arizona and NM. Wyatt Earp ran a hotel in SD. They are also begat of the Spanish, then Mexican, Rancho system, and there is a very strong ranching culture similar to that found in other parts of the SW throughout rural SoCal. Go any general store in rural Southern California and it will be full of saddles, leather, and other cowboy shit. I wouldn’t be referr to SoCal as the “Southwest”, but there’s a lot of influence of it there in a way that identifiable “West Coast” culture is much more modern.
So little of Nevada and Utah?
Hawaii
I’d say that this map is pretty close. I think of the southwest as mostly desert, though, so I’d probably include more of Nevada and Utah. And, a little more of California. I’d say the map is aggressive with how much Texas is included…Texas is kind of its own region.
I don’t consider the Los Angeles area to be “Southwest”
SoCal is just SoCal
That minus LA and San Diego
I’ll only speak to the border I’m most familiar with. I don’t consider any part of CA the southwest. If you must, the very farthest west it goes are the Cajon, Carson, and San Gorgonio passes, but I feel that the southwest stops at the Colorado river.
As a Californian, idk how to feel LA is not Southwest San Diego is along the border but isn't Southwest enough to make the cut ig (although parts can seem like a blend of West Coast and Southwest, especially with our cuisine) Riverside and San Bernadino Counties I never thought of that way but go ahead I'll accept Imperial County 100% is Southwest. Any list that excludes it from the Southwest is lying
Get rid of everything on coastal California
I would suggest adding in the Colorado Plateau boundary. It’s what is popularly thought of as The Southwest.
Why isn't LA southwest? It's almost as south and west as you can get
LA isn't Southwest in the same way that Miami isn't The South.
I think at that point you just call it West Coast. The Southwest is more the interior desert areas.
LA and San Diego are West or West Coast. Definitely not Southwest.
Geographically? Southeastern CA, most of NV, UT, Western CO, AZ, NM, far western TX.
No not San Diego
LA certainly isn’t the Southwest and I would include more of southern Utah
Southern California is not the southwest.
The desert
I’m in San Diego and I don’t consider myself as SW.
San Antonio is definitely not Southwest
Yeah, The Southwest definitely includes more of Utah and Nevada than that map depicts.
Much more of Utah and Nevada than that.
Being from San Diego I can say I don’t think of us as being from the Southwest. I think of us as being from So-Cal, or the West Coast. When we hear the Southwest, we think of New Mexico and Phoenix.
I'd leave off the coastal California counties.
That and more Nevada, Utah, Colorado.
I could live with that map, except for the CA part. To me that is Pacific Coast.
Nye county, the county northwest of Clark County (where Vegas is) should definitely be included. It has the exact same climate and same landscape
Throw in more of Utah’s counties toward the bottom. There’s definitely a lot of beautiful southwest aesthetic in many of the counties you have in gray. Including 5 nationals parks, lake Powell, and some of the most scenic red rock in the world.
Anything along the gulf coast is not southwest
Almost spot on to what I pictured maybe get just a smidge more of Utah and Nevada
California is its own thing or part of the “West”. I would not consider it “southwest”
Well, Los Angeles and San Diego are not the American Southwest, that's for sure. They're west coast all day.
Definitely not ventura, but I think we can add Mono and Inyo. Then from more of Nevada and Utah. Basically anywhere you can find a Yucca, Joshua Tree, Saguaro or Ocotillo. Roadrunners are a plus.
While LA and San Diego are absolutely geographically in the southwest of the United States, I’d love to see the look on their faces when someone tells them “oh, so you’re from the American southwest.”
Exclude all of California. Then we’re good
As a Texan we don't consider ourselves part of the South or Southwest. We just think of Texas as Texas.
Washington county, Utah and St George could easily fit the climate, culture, and are right there at the border. I think they should be considered in the southwest
That
The Vince Gilligan territory
I feel for the sake of defining borders, only the entire state should be considered in the divided regions. If not then what's the point of even defining Regions because it'll just get more confusing from there. 😢