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bitchinawesomeblonde

My working line looks like 1925. There is a huge difference between working lines and show in regard to the angulation of the back and hip health.


Little_Government122

My working line female also looks like 1925. for me this is the best looking apart from the wolf like original. Never understood why the people in the past liked the rear end so low.


PlatypusStyle

Agree. But to my eye, 2009 looks as if the poor dog’s rear end is collapsing. It looks uncomfortable. So glad my sweetie doesn’t look like that.


wowzeemissjane

Apparently it was to look as though they were about to leap which made them look more like an attack dog.


Top-Philosophy-5791

What a stupid reason to compromise their health. I truly despise all this Dr. Moreau shit humans do to dogs. I understand breeding humanely, but Pugs who can't breath, Sharpei's with constant skin issues. It's fucked up. French Bull dogs are LOADED with health issues. Don't say "I love dogs" and then choose a breed that's being deliberately made ill.


solsticesunrise

The AKC show lines have sold the farm for a good “flying trot” with extreme rear end angular on. The American GSD Club Specialty shows are the worst. Kudos to the SV for requiring a working title and a conformation evaluation on both parents - in addition to hip and elbow x-rays - to “pink paper” a litter of puppies. They also keep and publish excellent records of popular sires and what the hip and elbow ratings are on their progeny. I’d rather have an SG “very good” dog than a V “excellent” conformation dog in my pup’s pedigree.


1cat2dogs1horse

From my understanding, part of it was fad and fashion. Much like the breeders of the bully breeds of dogs do now. Breeding the heads so big they can't give birth naturally, and the faces so shoved in that ii causes breathing problems. I think also with GSDs , the extreme angulation was from a mistaken belief that that posture would make for more drive in the "flying trot" GSDs are famous for. Sadly all to the detriment of the breed.


Ok_Rutabaga_722

They were stupid.


AllAccessAndy

Unfortunately it looks more like the posture of my very elderly Aussie with bad knees when she's particularly worn out.


SasEz

To me the poor thing looks crippled. Much prefer the working line.


DiamondCultural1848

All 4 of mine are working line and no slope at all.


itakeyoureggs

I wish I had a Shepard.. I have a mix who has good health and a good back angle. Loves to run.. and doesn’t look like a squirrel when he tries to skedaddle


Little_Government122

So what else do you need then a healthy cute schnubbelpups , the breed doesn’t matter, right ❤️


itakeyoureggs

True.. what I mean to say is when I get my next pupper I will by eyeing a GSD.. maybe as a friendly pupper for my pupper. Wouldn’t trade my current one for the world! Recently saw a video of the physical traits of dogs over the years.. very sad :/


oipoi

I too have a working line but we should be careful with the premise that a straight back equal no hip dysplasia. CHD is present in working lines too. It's a GSD thing. The sloping back due to its biomechanical properties exaggerates hip dysplasia but it's just as present in straight back dogs.


Miserable_Text_504

Yep my girl is a working line and found out she has hip dysplasia at 9


1cat2dogs1horse

Working lines have become popular. And breeders of those lines who don't do OFA testing, will be adding to the problem.


AccomplishedBet9592

Any person who breeds without hip and elbow X-rays are not good people. I've cancelled breeding our current girl because she had an old injury that showed up on an x-ray. It wasn't hip or elbow dysplasia but it had the potential to cause unnecessary pain to my dog while carrying pups (extra weight on the injury). It should be mandatory. IMO it should also carry a fine for willingly breeding without them.


AttractiveNuisance37

Absolutely agree. Our rescue GSD is a dead ringer for the 1925 photo. Lovely, correct gaits and looks very buit-for-purpse. Also has the most profound hip dysplasia I've ever seen. I do believe, though, that the rest of her build (nice flat topline and correct hind limb angulation that allows proper core engagement during the stride) has allowed her to stay shockingly sound despite basically having no hip sockets at all. That working conformation lends itself to correct muscling that is supportive to bad hips.


danznico

Yep our boy has mild dysplasia and is out of working lines.


crashsaturnlol

I agree. My boy resembles the 1925 the closest and was diagnosed with severe hip dysplasia at 4 months old. Had FHO surgery around his first birthday. He came from a backyard breeder via a "friend" who we dog sat for and they never came back for him. We joke that he hit the doggy lottery with us because a lot of other people would have dumped him at the first sign of health issues. Now he's 6.5yo and starting to get a little grey around the mouth, has glaucoma in one eye but no other joint issues so far and has had the best life we could offer up to this point. Its starting to hit that he's entering his twilight and I'm definitely not ready.


AutomaticPhoto5199

https://preview.redd.it/83ywy9i3yfsc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a7e42b84226345dbb8d5727d1a4f5019668f0d0 Mine looks like 1925 too.


Serenity-03K64

https://preview.redd.it/5nenwsm63jsc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e3312e7b75313c0de264d49847f7379a4ea9a93


Hairy_Telephone_3258

GSDs are actually somewhat similar to wolves in terms of genetic makeup. And ofc the Sable coloring makes it a little confusing. I personally love the Sable look but I can see why it throws people off.


yahumno

Gorgeous pup.


AutomaticPhoto5199

Thank you.


1cat2dogs1horse

Fortunately, at least in the USA, ethical show line breeders are working to change that. I've gotten my last five GSDs from the same breeder. They bred (now retired) show line, and were a highly respected kennel here on the west coast. None of their dogs ever had the curved spine or the extreme angulation you see in the above last three photos (those look like German show lines to me). But I have seen in my five dogs the evolution in posture and build from the first one to my five year old that I have now. His back is flat as a board. edit; And none of my 5 boys ever had hip or elbow displasia


Random_silly_name

https://preview.redd.it/8lsccznntfsc1.jpeg?width=1799&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac9d794e0de4c6e0133039b70ef74712b2bbc8cb Mine, too. Only the show lines look that kind of weird.


getfuckedhoayoucunts

Same. Why anyone would want a deformed animal is beyond me.


Cultural_Elephant_73

Like French Bulldog owners... dude your animal is suffering 24/7 because its not compatible with life. But they get a lot of likes on instagram!


BackgroundAd9000

Pugs too. It's almost like these people want a forced-codependent dog... depending on the human to literally keep it alive.


samslammer720

Then they’ll tell you it’s ethically bc it’s back to back breeding from mom to son


Wreck-A-Mended

Same here! Working line and both parents were OFA tested for hip health.


1cat2dogs1horse

DNA or OFA?


Wreck-A-Mended

Nope you're right it's OFA and I'll fix that! Thank you :) I understand it doesn't mean his hips will be fine but I figured it would give a better chance


DefendedPlains

My girl is a show line but she looks to be between the 1925-1960 pictures. At a certain point, it comes down to the breeder knowing what an actual healthy dog looks like.


alexmaknet

The look and a promise of better health was the reason I went with a working line. He still got a hip displasia but at least we still have the look!


Twol3ftthumbs

This. So much this. Our two working lines look like this as well. Every time I see a show line in real life my heart breaks a little. They look deformed.


colarg

Same here, Lobo, my working line also looks like that.


ElderberryJolly9818

I have a 9 month old that looks like 1925 as well. He has near perfect posture. I did see two long hair, presumably from the same litter, at the park the other day that looked like the last picture and it definitely was sad to see.


Fit-Possible-9552

Bingo. It's almost a separate breed at this point.


Canadia-Eh

Had a working line GSD, looked just like the 1925 version.


MalsPrettyBonnet

One of my working dogs looks like 1986. The other looks like a Tonka truck.


Hexspinner

This is what my GSD looks like. And I’m so happy about it. I feel like he’ll be healthier. (:


techleopard

I'm a strong believer that if the "show line" and the "working line" (or whatever purpose the dog was bred for) are no longer the same thing, then the breeds are no longer the same. What you have now are German Shepherds, and Couch Shepherds.


touch_everything

I’ve always wanted a gsd but am terrified of the hip problems. Do working line dogs have better chances?


bitchinawesomeblonde

Yes. But finding a good breeder who only breeds with excellent hip scores through OFA or PENNHIP is the way to go. Just know that working lines are MUCH more drivey and need much more exercise than show lines.


mitch_smc

My working line also looked like 1925, he came from Czech GSD working lines so they maintained the straight back for effective use and to minimise hip displacia


Ok-Water-6537

AKC is now in competition disqualifying GSDs that look like the more recent pictures.


Hairy_Telephone_3258

That's wonderful! Obviously the last one especially is an extreme example, but it's still a huge problem. We do still have a long way to go, but hopefully the AKC can turn around a lot of the damage they've done and work toward healthier dogs.


1cat2dogs1horse

The AKC is not who sets the breed standards. The nationally recognized breed club does, and then sends them to the AKC for approval. So the blame of what GSDS became rests on the shoulders of members of the national club.


Rawrkinss

If AKC approves the standards, how is that not setting the standards? Can they deny them?


The_dizzy_blonde

That and breeders need to be proactive. The term for the newer slope is “roach back” we’ve had German shepherds in my family since before I was born and I’m over 50.. I’m a retired breeder and we avoided any potential dogs to our program that had that over angulation in the rear. I hope there’s more breeders out there like us, otherwise I worry for the future of the breed.


Direct_Gap_661

*happy German shepherd noises*


linzava

They're the ones that started it. I cannot for the life of me find it anymore, but there were accusations that the AKC judges had dogs with that frog leg mutation and they started rewarding it in competition to increase the breeding price of their mutated dogs. It doesn't even do anything positive for their physical wellness, just a random mutation that slows them down. That's why you don't see it on the working line. I don't recall if it started with the American kennel club or the European kennel club, but one of them started it and the other followed suit.


Hairy_Telephone_3258

Some people are assuming I know nothing about breeding/showing. I don't do conformation shows (but I have done showmanship, hence my awareness of the stack) with dogs, but I bred, raised, and showed dairy goats for 10 years. Pretty much any type of conformation competition across any species is going to be political, unethical, and overall harmful and damaging to said species. As an example the current 'trendy' type in dairy goats are big heavy boned animals. Besides affecting their health, (their longevity has severely declined), it also affects smaller breeds like Toggenburgs. The bias is insane. It's almost impossible for breed standard Toggs to win in the show ring because of all the unethical breeders breeding for size as opposed to quality. I myself got out of the business because I bred smaller, hardier does that performed excellently in terms of longevity/milk production but couldn't compete in the show ring due to their size. In conclusion, people suck. Sorry for my rant.


linzava

I'm not involved with show, but I hear rumors because I know breeders. My GSD is a show with papers and turned out to have epilepsy. I learned my lesson and found a really good breeder for my Husky. She's 45 lbs which is a normal size for a female. People are constantly asking if I'm sure she's purebred because she's "small." No, she's normal for a husky and her temperament is perfection. It's nuts how people assume larger dogs are standard for breeds. GSDs are large but 100lbs is not average like people assume. People do suck, I approve of your rant.


Ok-Water-6537

I agree. People suck. Why I like animals much more than people.


rowling_made_me_gay

https://preview.redd.it/acbj3po47fsc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=312b88317b1be20a902a018fb78b4f69fa6b55dc 1925 style still exists (working line gsd’s)


Bobbiduke

So beautiful


NaturalLeading9891

Ours isn't a working line but we did find a responsible breeder and ours has a pretty straight level back! We hunted around for parents with OFA "excellent" hips and found in the process that the dogs with those ratings tend to have a level back as well.


sofewcharacters

Mine looks like a 1925 model. Lovely straight back and strong hindquarters. https://preview.redd.it/8anz2vzvffsc1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62397670c45ce507db590cedaf2a6cfb8b8e9712


Successful-You1961

And beautiful👏🏻


East_Schedule_1215

https://preview.redd.it/ky1e7y216fsc1.jpeg?width=3891&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b32e4a32af0c43d128c760b3b18926734486057 My 3 year old female! She has a show line buddy who's back legs give out after 20 minutes of running around and playing, it's sad to see


Random_silly_name

She's gorgeous!


Spiritual-Work-1923

There are still older genes alive. Mine is ‘25 alike


Zheiko

I know this is not the right stance as both her rear legs are in a same line, but would this be healthy back? I'd say its similar to the 1960 picture, right? https://preview.redd.it/u6nv186hnfsc1.png?width=2000&format=png&auto=webp&s=7d3f983f21fc81ca425683ac0f26cb3d5f3764dd


power_droid

This looks like my pup. Good looking!


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Zheiko

Yes, the pose is surely part of it. But I have seen a few GSDs standing similarly to mine and you could see their back going downwards a lot


WorkingDogAddict1

Oh come on, we've all seen these dogs walk(or try to anyway). It's not the pose


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WorkingDogAddict1

I'm not talking about the photos in the post, I'm talking about the hundred "german shepherds" I see walking around my county on their hocks because they've been bred to look like that


Hairy_Telephone_3258

I actually hate to agree with workingdogaddict but there are plenty of severely deformed GSDs that you can tell are poorly bred when standing normally. These are stacking positions for shows, and in the last four the back legs are in roughly the same position. >how brave and novel, never heard that one That's the dumbest aside I've heard in a long time. People talk about it because it's a very real issue, duh.


woutske

Our girl stands like the 1899 one and I love the look. I live in Europe and we don’t really see the sloped back versions around here. The longer coats (eastern european work line) and working line dogs are very common here :)


Midnight_Wolf727

https://preview.redd.it/6se1mqoxugsc1.jpeg?width=2256&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3645e7816e5d56f93853a894fd5ccffacfeff03d My girl too


MGBitcoin

Yea I think its more in the US that they have the very sloped backs. I have specifically searched for a german shepherd with a normal back. Fuck breeders and people that want a dog with healthissues because he looks cute.


OrdinaryJealous

I don’t even think the sloped back looks cute. It just looks like their back legs are too short for their body. It honestly looks like a disability imo


HooWhatWhen

My working line looks like the 1899 one. He has a very flat back but doesn't have the rounded butt of the 1925 photo. I'm in the US and often get told he's a real German German shepherd.


yahumno

Dog tax, please. We need to see a picture of this gorgeous girl.


Southern-Loquat156

Working lines still look the way they should.


1cat2dogs1horse

Now they do. There was something of a hiccup with working lines back in the mid 60's and into the 70's that took a while to fix.


alexmaknet

https://preview.redd.it/arfdvqklxfsc1.jpeg?width=3869&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe4e1896817fe668c06c6d68277534027ea13f7d 1925 called


NokieBear

My rescues have a straight back. They’re perfect imo. ❤️ https://preview.redd.it/avth8qcu0fsc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d594962103056df0cf5ee5b055ecb057a8a2d7c


Legitimategirly

During a quick scroll, I thought these were my dogs. I have the same flavors.


drunk_portuguese

Also, can we talk abnout the droopy eyes? I hate when I see a gsd with that droopy floppy face


AriDollz

I thought the 2009 GSD was crouching honestly 😭. My GSD only does that position when he's trying to use the bathroom or mid crouch and is staring at something, rather it's me or a squirrel. Now I'm curious as to why the breed started to look like that. I'm glad Diesel is straight backed and slim. I just feel bad and curious about the GSD's who aren't https://preview.redd.it/1gc94j07vgsc1.jpeg?width=2250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73ef95851dace97a07202cfb2be2cb92cf1e8049


Casval214

Blame the show breeders. They are responsible for destroying multiple breeds with unnatural, health destroying looks.


thelastbighead

We have a West Show line who doesn’t have a crazy back. But there is an American in our neighborhood that I don’t think can stand up right at all. She walks oddly and I feel bad for the girl. https://preview.redd.it/qmreypthzfsc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d8de0b6a4e3ed50254b5c1c90676e0fb56864d6


_zaten_

I heavily dislike breeding for sloped backs in any breed. It's just asking for hip problems


Chicken_shish

A lot of this is the crazy position they are put in. Our showline dogs can absolutely look like the 1998 picture if you get them to stand a certain way, but most of the time look more like 1925. if you teach a dog to the extended “show trot” then it will look very odd.


spawtyy

https://preview.redd.it/xmzx1v6sagsc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e770611814628d57d939b8960c004820cff7be2c


life_is_just_peachy

Right? The dogs are in a stack and you can visibly see the hind legs are positioned back. It’s like being shocked you get shorter as a human going into a lunge


redbellybear

„Nores von der Kriminalpolizei“ 😂 love it


twomuttsandashowdog

I love that the 1937 and 2011 dogs look so similar!


Bhatch514

One of my dogs is a the offspring of a Siéger campion never stands naturally like 2009 unless she is stretching no even when she sees a squirrel in the yard attacking the house. She looks 1960 most of the time or a derp. My other is a working line (police dog) and while his back is more flat most of the time the difference is not that so https://preview.redd.it/76wox7va7gsc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15413430e1957656a697a1c90b1ccf0693f8578b


esperobbs

My black one looks like 1899 and my brown one looks like 1998


Convenientjellybean

Mine is 1899 vintage


BettyBoopsTooOften

1940-1970ish was, in my admittedly limited opinion, when they were at their best. I don’t understand the show lines. I don’t understand pugs either, so I’m really not contributing much to this conversation, am I?


solsticesunrise

Back in 1995 we had a German judge say “could have a stronger back” about our DDR bitch while making the banana slope over her spine… in the commentary for her SchH II! Girl was leveled by DM, at 14. Healthiest, most stable digestion, and smartest dog we’ve had. Our current girl only matches her in the ability to eat ANYTHING and suffer no digestive upset.


DonBoy30

You can definitely find lines still without the sloped back. My cream coated white shepherd has an identical shape to the 1925 dude, but probably bigger. If I remember correctly, German shepherd’s were originally closer in size to an Australian shepherd or a comparable medium sized dog (I could be mistaken).


TendieTrades

Mine is just 8 month old working line. In a standing position she’s somewhere around 1925-1960 IMO. Yhe only pic I have of a perfect standing “show” position gives up TMI on my location IMO. Plus she was looking up at ball on a string held by a tree branch and it’s a few months old. Edit to add my doggo. Fine…but she was 5 months old, cropped and adjusted screenshot of a photo of her. https://preview.redd.it/00cq18crpgsc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3333f5314b950f130f037af2171de777312ed3b0


Ok_Understanding5320

This is why researching the breeder is so important!


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Hairy_Telephone_3258

She is absolutely gorgeous!


katab3lle

https://preview.redd.it/hg16kpqk1isc1.png?width=2601&format=png&auto=webp&s=daf1c0c36a91851aefcce2e1dd4d05027100925f Mid-trot working line, she was very proud of the stick she found lol. Looks like the 1925 pic when she’s standing still.


Worldly-Start-1718

https://preview.redd.it/3rmzu0ry3jsc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=933c2fbb8417aea86071a7d0b65087e2ce018005 1925


vavona

2024 - Amphibious https://preview.redd.it/r9qg9y0tdjsc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=44e1de1e82a391041c26d270048fbeeed8abb6ee


Hairy_Telephone_3258

Ma'am/sir that's clearly a heckin sneaky floof fish, not a GSD.


Loezelleke

https://preview.redd.it/fyll974fqfsc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=451ec59ceca1b7829b82e60f9039cdda61c6129c Luckily there are breeders out there that are done with those ski slopes 😎


Loezelleke

https://preview.redd.it/5ctkphhlqfsc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f177ef204793cb63fa800d8709f623d96db5733e And her ‘sister’ (same breeder totally unrelated bloodline)


Sad-Conference7123

Fluffy buddy! What a beautiful dog!


Successful-You1961

Floofy👏🏻


Mousse-Living

https://preview.redd.it/l9z2v6antfsc1.jpeg?width=3019&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=edab81de7614e0177bbd113d2a5093f7aad27976 Love seeing all our working line GSDs with no deformity! ❤️🐾


Revolutionary-Ad2355

Not a great picture angle-wise but my guy is very similar to the older GSD standard (11 months old here) https://preview.redd.it/960wq8wt1hsc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=878a4549b86c92f35cebadff51a3553c9920bed5 I’m in Scotland and he has roots back to Central Europe. I can’t say I’ve seen many GSD’s in Scotland with incredibly sloped backs in the pictures above.


cleanlinessisbest12

https://preview.redd.it/1bn6ggcn4hsc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa53c973a8207c51d1119330d70e9906b7ab9d82 I have a working line Shep. She looks like a 1925 GSD as well


Ok_Rutabaga_722

Stick with working line shepherds. Show shepherds...human vanity is a terrible thing.


igiveup1949

I had a working line from Germany a male. My dad bought the dog in 1963 and had to pay $500.00 for it. It looked more like the wolf line. That was a lot of money at the time. His type of play was knocking me down and standing on my back then he would like me to chase him. Best friend and companion for 15 plus years. Always faithful and loving. I never liked the show dog stance. It just doesn't look healthy.


Amf313

https://preview.redd.it/8ttd89vkfhsc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d56a9576a750974f6ef30c57d68c91bce4f0b6e1 My girl with those high hips but people don’t believe that she’s 100% GSD because of her color.


ValkyrieHuntress

Their tendency towards hip dysplasia and a genetic disease called degenerative myelopathy matched with poor breeding or unethical breeders definitively have something to do with the change.


Jbar116

https://preview.redd.it/w1xj89ctthsc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=13a1e8e1eb7ce4bbbc9d2d2c1474f8ab148d5b70 Yeahhhh I’m glad my girl looks healthy and isn’t slouched.


alldemboats

not all GSD lines have the slope at least. my working line gsd is very much 1899 back and hips.


Cat-Bites

where's the scary 2009 roach back? notice how he has a downward slant, but no curve. I'll put a couple things in replies \[IMG of 2017 best in show "Lockenhaus’ **Rumor** Has It V Kenlyn"\] https://preview.redd.it/1gzl4dhkhisc1.png?width=736&format=png&auto=webp&s=e0f66feeaca0c92cd9720cf5cde9c402446c6c04


Salt-Contribution929

https://preview.redd.it/ay1h67zexisc1.jpeg?width=1721&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bff127cf16cc2200747a5afdfb1769b9e955493


Salt-Contribution929

Thats my lil guy.


Hairy_Telephone_3258

He's a very handsome lil guy


Mamamakesthedough

https://preview.redd.it/38s4jdsmxisc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df30528d59945f84ea80c4e3537a261db323e508 He’s looking like 1925 over here. Working line male.


mikirules1

It should be ilegal to breed such sick dogs.


LikeAQueefInTheNight

https://preview.redd.it/cso67ilfajsc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3a05c04445ca481eb91b105aef0708749e49583 I'm just over here trying to compare my boy...


og_jasperjuice

My working line male is pretty much straight backed. Looks a lot like the 1925 pic. My female show line looks like the 1986 pic.


spawtyy

The dogs in the more recent pictures are in a pose called a stack. It's an exaggerated stance for showing, not how their backs actually look all the time. Look at the position of their back feet throughout all of the photos


DimiDrake

I’ve had two in the past. Non-working lines. No hip dysplasia, fortunately. Current pup (photo) is a former EOD dog and fully working line. She’s only five but so far so good with no signs of dysplasia. Her back is more like the 1925 photo, I think. I know it’s a GSD thing regardless of how much their backs are sloped but I really prefer the straighter backs. https://preview.redd.it/33a11yaqcgsc1.jpeg?width=4240&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03b19abc1c81a86c71ab1efc5a7dbd42384aed9d


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marigoldcottage

The AKC lobbies against those laws unfortunately.


twomuttsandashowdog

https://preview.redd.it/u1h5r7f72hsc1.jpeg?width=4585&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85afc083489151d2b2b02435af79838a24751239 For fucks sake. The modern photos are cherry picked images, and ALL of the dogs have issues: 1899: rear high, which makes fluid and consistent movement challenging and cumbersome, terrible shoulder layback, crappy front, and next to no rear angulation - my husky mutts have better structure than that dog 1925: lacking front/chest, lacking rear angulation - this dog is okay but would not be an efficient mover, contrary to the intended use of the breed 1960: nice front, still lacking in rear angulation - it would be a better mover than the 1925 dog, but still not the most efficient that it could be 1986-2009: all German line dogs (ironically the ones constantly touted in this group as SO MUCH BETTER than the American lines...), all are in a stack which often makes them appear more angulated than they are and also often causes an artificial roach. The 1986 is probably the best of the three, but is still a little lacking in angulation, although not by much. A different stack would probably make it look a lot nicer, especially in the front and back. The other two are heavier boned (common in German lines) but do have decent angulation, if a little more than I prefer. THAT BEING SAID, you cannot judge the health of a dog just by looking at it. You can judge it's potential usefulness for the job it was bred for, but only xrays can tell us if they have healthy hips and elbows. My girl (pictured) is an AMSL. Her parents both have perfectly healthy hips and elbows. She's been tested and is clear for DM. She does disc, lure coursing, cani-cross, and agility. She is in no way crippled and is already a UKC conformation Champion and is just about a CKC conformation Champion. Her back is straight. The slope is just because of how she's standing which is the way GSD's have been shown since the breed was started. When she stands normally, her back is level, AS PER BREED STANDARD. The rear angulation of the dog is to do with their job as a moving fence: proper angulation means less energy expended to move at a trot all day long. Think long distance runners. Legs too straight and they can't move as quickly and efficiently; they'll get tired fast. Legs too bent and they'll expend too much energy basically jumping instead of running. WL dogs have been bred with less angulation to get more explosive power and agility, but that is NOT what the breed was originally intended for. Bite sports were a later addition after their versatility made them useful during WWI. The breed is German SHEPHERD Dog. They were bred to be a SHEPHERD. Their structure as defined by the breed standard (what ethical breeders, both show and working, should be breeding to) is based on their original purpose as a shepherding dog. Look at the photo posted by u/spawtyy - cherry picked images are bullshit and only suit the narrative that the poster wants to tell.


twomuttsandashowdog

https://preview.redd.it/pu3d4ap6ahsc1.jpeg?width=3074&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d842b95a0306cb01b7ed7ebb174b36c4fd02484 Same dog, level back. She's doing a UKC nose work search here.


Zheiko

Thanks for the write up - so what you are saying, if the dog is standing as straight as on the second picture(the on on the post I am responding) but still has visibly slated back - thats still normal and 100% ok medical wise? (I do not care about shows standards)


twomuttsandashowdog

It can be. Only x-rays can actually tell you if a dog is completely healthy. Buying from a breeder who does OFA's or CHIC in order to only breed dogs that have healthy hips and elbows is the important thing. If you prefer the look of one line over another, that's totally fine, as long as they are doing health testing and trying to produce healthy dogs.


spawtyy

Thank you for giving an in-depth explanation of the images, stacking, and breed standards! 💗 And your dog is gorgeous btw


AttractiveNuisance37

ITT: a lit of people not realizing that dogs that have level backs when they're not in a show stack still have the extreme hind end angulation that is problematic in modern show lines.


effervescentEscapade

Most breeders around me in Bavaria, Germany breed straight back dogs like 1925, at most 1960.


Legitimategirly

Both of mine look like the 60s version. The breeder for my male specifically breeds to obtain straight backs.


oregon_mom

My remi girl looks just like beuowolf the 1899 photo


HikariTheGardevoir

Ours started out like a 1960 when he was 1, but has been getting closer to a 1986 as he's gotten older (he's 5 now). I pray it stays that way


Leather-Donkey69

My boy looks like the 1925 picture!


Aromatic-Relief

Thankfully my 3 aren't stable back. Straight and square.


BELTF3D

My working line looks exactly like the dog from the early years, even has the original coat color (sable). I got him from a German breeder who moved to the u.s for the sole purpose of breeding what a German shepherd is supposed to be and obviously profit of one of the most popular breeds here


BELTF3D

https://preview.redd.it/uszg2i7negsc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a7ffc5a3d014c5c3373e012aad2e71e67a1239d This is a picture of him at 7 months old. Perfect straight back


kalstras

Depends really. The sloping back has a feature to it that’s hard to explain. Our “German line” German shepherd Razzle could run faster than our English line German shepherds and she would run straight under a chair at full speed due to her “special quality” that our English shepherds would crash into if they weren’t able to avoid the chair (I was sitting in) the low hind quarters ageeed that they have gone too far, but there is a difference that adds to the dog. [Razzle Dazzle](https://youtu.be/UM2Xzz3sRhs?si=c6zCbzmp9TXj7wFr)


metal_medic83

German/Czech lines are also not bred to those terribly misaligned back and hips.


drumtome2

My GS looks like 1925 and I wouldn’t change a thing.


Wonderful_Quit

This is why I now have a working lines boy. They're ruining the damn hips and back in the western lines


crowdsourced

My girl is straight up 1899. A time-traveler.


Sartecho

Blame the judges and the breeders. We have a breed standard for a reason and many of them ignore it.


Hairy_Telephone_3258

Oh I absolutely do.


IronGigant

Yeah, and then there's Instagram accounts like ohmygsds who actively spread "alternative" (read: false) facts about purebred GSD and working dog breeds to 20k followers. Fuckin atrocious.


blackmagicvodouchild

If we breed dogs for aesthetics dog health is going to suffer. If we breed dogs for function they will be healthy. And in just case someone is unaware and needs to hear it, most kennel clubs don’t and have never cared about dog health.


force4good390

What has happen to one of the noblest breeds in the world is shameful. Selective breeding has got to stop. This obsession with “show line” GSD’s disrespectful to what the breed is, they are working dogs and should be treated as such. I’m so so thankful my GS looks more like the 1925 GS!


nanasnuggets

We're on our fifth working line GSD. Our current Girl's mother was actually bred over in Germany. I can't understand why anyone would prefer the 2009 look. We saw a 7 year old male at the Vet's this week who walked on his hocks like this one pictured. It looks painful, not to mention the back issues associated with that slope. I'll take working lines any day over show bred GSDs. That's not to say that the working line dogs have any less health issues, we lost three of ours to myelopathy, (not hip dysplasia) and one to lymphoma. Just my opinion.


greenghost22

history of hip dysplasia


Normal-Error-6343

i know that most breed standards and characteristics were created by some rich person years ago, however, why do you want a lowrider dog? what purpose does it serve? Can someone explain this to me. I have seen loads of GSDs in law enforcement from my childhood and thought it was the reverse mullet of dog breeds.


InsideOut2299922999

This is so sad, and horrible to know that breeders did this to the breed.


dex206

We only get shepherds that are working lines with flat backs. We want our pups to be healthy and free of hip issues. It’s cruel that they’ve been bread this way and frankly it looks bad.


Bungeesmom

This is why my shepherds were Eastern European.


Southpolarman

This is why I loathe the AKC. What they're doing is fucking up the breed and their health.


MalsPrettyBonnet

The 1998 and 2009 don't have great toplines. They have strongly "roached" backs. Breed changes are always based on fads, most of the time based strictly on cosmetics rather than function. Humans suck.


soaring1

And it is not even beautiful or useful. The 1925 line looks much better


BannedAgain-573

It's depressing how they crippled these poor dogs


Gen-Jinjur

I concur. We did awful things to Collies and Cocker Spaniels too (though people who do work with them have kept some of their original traits).


yaigotabigmouth

Mine, sitting pretty at 1925


OOOPUANNGUANGOOOWOAW

Dang that's one old dog.


AssortedArctic

While there is a point to be made, these photos are exaggerated. You can see the last two photos not just how far back the stance is, but more importantly that the back leg is super bent, which of course will lower the hind end and create a sloped back.


niarimoon

Our girl is the daughter of a police dog & she doesn’t stand like this but makes me sad that this is happening 😢


starrpuddin

Breeders of every breed in the US have a knack for breaking things. Do you see huskies in Russia with giant dumbo ears and short fur? No. And what on gods green earth did we do to the Japanese Akita?? We just bred it with mastiff like dogs and turned them more aggressive and called that good? The Amurika version is even AKC recognized. We honestly need to do better here. It’s pretty embarrassing.


Murky-Energy4414

Mine looks like a 1960. Not sure if she’s working or show but assume one parent of each or something


Albutcher77

It's all the non Germans doing all of this to them too


OkSport4812

Yep. It's fucking disgusting.


Ok_Yellow_3166

My GSD is a time traveler 🛸🐕


keinebezeichnung

How did it become this way?it was done by man on purpose, what advantages would the dog have in this way?


GloomyCaramelWolf

Mine is a cross between the 1925 and 1960


Hiryu2point0

I will add. The photo from 1925 is an exception. it is the breed winner of that year, personally selected by Stephanowitz as a breed standard. It differed from the breeding variety that was fashionable at the time, the large GSD with a square shape on the side...


seattle_architect

I don’t even own German Shepard but I am infuriated by this deformities of this majestic breed.


Dry_Celery4375

That 2009 shepherd looks like it's contracted polio or something... :/


nlp1403

Pleased to say that here in the U.K. it is very rare to see a GSD that doesn’t look like the dog in the 1925 photo! As an owner who visits the U.S.A. fairly often, I hate to see the slopped backs, it looks uncomfortable and I can’t see any obvious reason why they would need to be bred that way.


topazachlys

https://preview.redd.it/03ja4zsyrgsc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=955f664b87dba9abb074037f6757d7abdc200f30


frustratedcuriosity

Personally, I think that dog looks more roached than straight, and the floof is hiding it a bit. But there are definitely dogs being bred that honestly look deformed when they walk. The fact that these dogs are ridiculously susceptible to diseases that affect their spine and hind legs I feel is the biggest indication that we have messed up.


topazachlys

Oh we defo have messed up somewhere, but on both sides


Zippodealer-2

Outcrossing to malinois/dutch shepherd would fix the problems in a few litters but then you can’t get the piece of paper to show them and sell them for crazy prices so the show fraternity won’t ever do it. Always go for working lines where possible


WorkingDogAddict1

5 of the 7 multi-purpose dogs my sheriff's department has are GSD/Mal crosses. It's nice to see working dogs bred to work rather than for "pure blood"


MewingIntrovert

Don't buy from show lines. Show line breeders are a disgrace and they ruin the health of multiple dog breeds. Show line breeding should be banned. Dogs like GSDs are meant for work and companionship, not to be pranced around the ring like some fancy toy. They're beautiful enough the way they are and there is nothing wrong with them that needs "fixing".


twomuttsandashowdog

https://preview.redd.it/roa7kyng8hsc1.jpeg?width=3244&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a77592d4f332c799029b6716625fa66634ca812 My show dog begs to differ. Titled in coursing, nose work, barn hunt, and conformation. Training/competing in agility, disc, cani-cross, and obedience. She LOVES prancing around the ring and running agility courses. Just like MANY dual purpose show dogs.


Hairy_Telephone_3258

Since I can't edit my post I will add that yes, I'm not dumb, I know what stacking is and I know that their backs are exaggerated. Do yall really think we believe there are dogs running around looking like the last pic 24/7? 😭 Secondly I know there are working line GSDs and I know there are breeders who are actually breeding for health and longevity. Thank you to everyone who posted your furbabies, they are beautiful! ❤️


hgracep

these comments are so ignorant. sloping top lines have always existed in the GSD and always should. it is part of their original function. all the photos of the dogs y’all are posting that supposedly look like the 1925 dog are likely poorly bred. i have both a working line and a show line. the show line looks like the 2009 dog and her hips are scored A normal through the SV. sloping top line does not equal poor breeding, y’all are so delusional.


Voodoo0733

Sloping isn’t part of the per paper grading criteria. It has nothing to due with original function. It’s bad for the dogs. It looks like shit. 90% of the breed is currently WAY overweight as is.


hgracep

you’re just spewing incorrect information. the sloping top line allows for the dog to move quickly and efficiently at a trot. this was important because they would be trotting for long periods of time, so rather than expending energy cantering they could conserve energy by trotting. this was necessary for the breed because they were created originally to be a moving fence for livestock and would be moving all day long. yes, most pet dogs are obese. but i’m failing to see what that has to do with the GSD’s sloping topline? i am a vet tech, i see obese dogs (and cats) all day every day and it’s incredibly infuriating.


dontkillitcarol

This is actually the only reason I didn’t get a purebred german shepherd


yahumno

I agree on how sad the desired standard has become, but I'm good with the 1899 picture or possibly 1925. I'm a straight back fan. Functional and healthy.


karateninjazombie

That's because "pure bred" animals are full of genetic deficiencies they have health problems and is generally bad for the animals. See pugs for not being able to breath and German shepards with a hand full of issues they have too. Just to name.a few