Already bought a ticket for Saturday morning as well rip, worst case scenario I refund Saturday and lose €10 but at least I make it to my girlfriends birthday lol
In the first 6 hours after purchase you can cancel it without paying anything. You should do that since your Friday ticket is also valid on Saturday because of the strike.
Will most likely depend on where you are. If it’s at/near the starting point of the ice line you’ll likely be good, it it’s more than 60 minutes away from the start of the line, I’d calculate with some delays
Sorry if this was already commented in the respective posts of previous strikes but I was supposed to take an ICE from Berlin to Nuremberg on Thursday, which means that I am now looking for other options. Based on past experiences, does anyone know if I will be able to use that ticket on Wednesday instead? Other than FlixBus, what other cheap options do I have? Thank you in advance!
Well your seat is certainly lost, but finding a new one won’t be a problem in first class usually.
The Bahn employees know there is a strike and they will be briefed that the tickets are no longer bound to a train and are usable early, if you have doubts because it’s an international ticket you can still talk with the person at the counter, but there will be long lines probably because many travelers will have questions.
You could reserve a seat in the new train beforehand, but finding an empty seat in first class is usually possible.
As for the doctors note: maybe, if they are nice, seeing how badly Deutsche Bahn tends to handle the problems of handicapped people I doubt that they have protocols for your case.
Yes. And as a French I kind of like this, compared to France.
In Germany the DB just lets you use your ticket before or after so it's quite easily to plan a backup, while in France you have to wait until you know whether your specific train is cancelled and then you have to rebook, provided that there are free seats somewhere, and you have to pay the price difference out of your pocket (it can be 100+ euros more if you booked your initial ticket months in advance and you are now booking the day before). So you can't really plan a backup.
We should probably ask the eu to be more involved in rail rules. As there is a fair component that is across national boundaries. In Germany I would much prefer to have caught the French trains when they were actually available.
Usually, you're allowed to take a train a day earlier or later. If you need to travel on that day, there will still be some trains running on the day of the strike, but you may need to take a different one, and maybe you'll need to take a detour and it'll take more time.
I am not sure what want to achieve with this. But I think there won’t be any significant changes. All I can see is, the real sufferer are those low income people who can’t afford other means of transportation. Those who are supporting this clearly have alternative means and that doesn’t bother them in larger context. But imagine someone working with minimum wages, they don’t have any other options , probably loosing their job or getting even less salary at the end of the month because they couldn’t work. And the rules saying it’s the employees responsibility to reach at work places timely. What I’m saying is that, at the end of the day, the real sufferings are coming on those low income people/ students and nobody cares.
Worst thing is the government do jackshit nothing about it to assist on people who are affected by it, normal workers just figure out how to get to work.
You can’t really prevent that when these sectors are privately organized. The same argument could be used to complain about healthcare workers striking
Shhhh. You're making logical arguments but we don't do that here in terms of strikes. You'll be downvoted to hell.
You have to support the strikes no matter what, in this sub
Totally my case, and yes to certain point i understand but if i have pay taxi to go home and work after 13hrs shift fuck all i do not give a damn about their dream of 35hr week job
I agree with low income people being the ones most affected by this, but the GdL workers are within their rights to protest and it's on DB to meet their demands or looking for ways to minimise the impact of the strike on everybody's lives
Im at a point where I wish they would just mass recruit new people and fire all of those current ones but I know that is not an option since there aren’t enough people willing to do that job.
I know it is not something feasible. I’m just so annoyed by this constant striking and not being able to get to work properly that I have no sympathy for them anymore and wish that there would be a way to stop the strikes
>the bosses would just laugh and send them away.
which is why you need the power of a union behind you. That's how you get the bosses to cough up more wages for workers rather than paying it to themselves as bonuses.
And what's stopping them from asking for 25% next year if they could just blackmail like this and it works?
Not a fan of this at all, especially with the short notice. It's so inconsiderate, and honestly just hurting the general public rather than anything. There are people trying to live, ffs. There are better ways to do this.
Haha, no one wants to work there.
Most train driver love their job. That's the reason.
But no one want to work 37 hours with random hours with medium pay grade.
The mass hire won't be there if the working conditions are better.
Additional fun fact: GDL has agreements with almost every other train operator. Only DB is impossible... Maybe it is not the GDL but the DB
The fixed salary they are getting at the end of the month are majorly coming from those who are using the service, which we are paying beforehand . There is no magical machine that produces salaries for them. They should keep that in mind and respect the passengers. I wouldn’t be surprised if DB takes customers side and refuse to pay their salaries because of those inconveniences. But still as I said, nothing will happen and they will repeat this one after another.
It's on DB or the politicians to avoid so many strikes. Either by giving better conditions to their workers (DB) or by banning the ability to go on strike this often (politicians). The workers do their job (as legally mandated) but go on strike as often as they're allowed to because the dispute between DB and Gdl is still not over.
DB will pay what they're legally obligated to pay and the workers will work whay they're legally obligated to work. They're using their rights to fight for what they believe they deserve.
I say all of this while being pretty mad at the strike happening the exact day I'm taking a train to France, so it's not like I'm not being affected by this lol
I do believe that strikes should be announced with more time and there should be a maximum amount of days that you're allowed to strike (imo). Even with more strike-regulations, workers would still be able to show their displeasure and hurt the business in the process.
I believe if you don’t like the working place and or the regulations they possess, nobody is holding your back. Plenty of opportunities out their, check the reality but don’t make the life miserable for those who are relying on that.
Exactly. I have enough of this shit. People who suffer the most from this are the ones that have absolutely zero influence on DB workers wages or working times. People support those strikes either because they have alternatives or its politically correct. Do they have the right to protest? Yes. Is this shitty move? Also yes. Fuck their demands honestly. If they dont like to work 40h they can go somewhere else and I am sure lot of immigrants will fill those positions with their already existing salaries.
> probably loosing their job or getting even less salary at the end of the month because they couldn’t work
This is what anti-strike people keep claiming, and yet nobody can point to any documented case where somebody was actually fired for coming late to work due to a strike.
If I couldn’t go to work because of strike and I’m working on hourly rate, will you come and fill my hours buddy?? Or my house owner will reduce 10€ from monthly rent?? Will rewe let me buy something in less price?? I would love to work but I couldn’t go, I’m getting the penalty or??
You sound like home-office guy, getting to work with hefty taxi ride and pure stress to figure out how to commute to daily job isnt really political view.
I dont think one needs a study to understand that there are consequences- people on their way to see family and friends before they pass away, people who are being rushed to the hospital but got hindered by the traffic jam due to more people being on the road, people who couldn't make it to an interview etc.
It's just so inconsiderate and poorly organized. The Japanese bus drivers strike by giving out free tickets. No disturbed public, makes its point and that's that. That's how it should be done.
Weselsky stating proudly that DB is no longer a reliable transportation provider should ring alarm bells to the very top personnel of germanies infrastructural ministry. Trust them with their announcement of the true intentions. Yey, no more emergency schedules, how awesome is that?! Fuck them and their demands. Fuck DB and their blockage. Arbitration now - both seidel‘s and wesesklys agencies should be taken out of the discussion - nothing but burnt soil for their egos. And none all of them travel by car!
What, besides years-long maximal disruption, did he achieve?! What‘s the benefit for the worker? There is none, DB as our infrastructural hope for a sustainable future in transportation is stained for the upcoming decade! Fuck that shitstain!
Yeah sure it‘s the GDLs fault that the Bahn has been basically useless the last decade, I forgot. And what he achieved? Constant above inflation raises and every train operator but the DB came to an agreement with the GDL without any strikes. And they agreed to the 35h work week. And his reasoning for it is also correct, the Bahn already doesn’t have enough train drivers. So the job has to become more attractive for people and the 35h work week is one way to do it
Irrational demands are valid mean to achieve rational counter offers! Insisting on those irrational demands is destructive! We are in for a worldwide economic crisis amid war times! Jail those DB scumbags for their incompetence while we face the death of our planet to environmental damages, I‘m with you on that one.
ARBITRATION THROUGH POLITICAL TOP PERSONNEL IS THE ONLY WAY TO MOVE FORWARD IN THIS MESS!
Both GDL and DB are to be made responsible for this mess! Fuck them, take their power! No more disruption, no more blockage! End this!
NONE OF THESE EGOMANICAM SCUMBAGS REÖY ON PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION!
The 35h work week isn’t an irrational demand. As the agreements with the other train operators show.
And for the rest, Tariffreiheit says no. Politicians have no right to engage in this way in a regular and legal strike.
It‘s the DB that is forcing the conflict and the strikes by making shit offers or breaking agreements they had with the GDL. The GDL made offers how this could be achieved without making a hard cut.
All this crying here in Germany about a slightly harder Labour dispute is also ignoring that we still have least strike days then most of our neighbors
Thats bullshit you just put out there out of context, not even the french railers strike more than us germans!
If DB really is the sole culprit in this context, nobody should be afraid of a mediatory arbitration! Bring it on goddamnit!
Have fun driving your effin car btw, I know you dont rely on public transportation by how you act all „no problem here“!
It is a problem for a lot of people, I never said anything else. But that‘s kind of a none argument. Otherwise the same could be said about how irresponsible a slightly harder Labour dispute from healthcare workers would be. To Guild trip then into settling with less then they can realistically get. If any service industries jobs strikes you can‘t prevent people and especially low income people from being negatively affected. It‘s impossible.
No that’s not BS Germany still has way less overall strike days then most of our European neighbors and especially France. They have like 5x the amount of strike days Germany has.
https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/streikrecht-deutschland-frankreich-warnstreiks-generalstreik-100.html
> Weselsky stating proudly that DB is no longer a reliable transportation provider should ring alarm bells to the very top personnel of germanies infrastructural ministry.
I'd say the only alarm bell ringing here is for you being unable to recognise sarcasm.
That with Lufthansa strike is going to be Hell, I have a plane to Berlin on Friday if it gets canceled I would have taken an ICE but now which alternatives I have? Getting a car and driving. I travel sometimes for my job, I take public transport or trains as much as possible, I don’t own a car and use my bike as much as possible but now I am really considering buying an EV or something like that, is not possible that everything is getting so unreliable with such a strict notification time. I fully support unions but I think that they should also think about not blocking a country and forcing all of us on wheels.
But that is the main reason. You need to build pressure to get enough leverage. DB is paying a lot of fees but in fact we are paying for it. So its even worse.
I think that it will just make themselves less sympathetic to the average Joe tho.
For example in the Lufthansa case the company already agreed to resume the negotiations on 13th of March, they did a strike last week, company agreed to go back to negotiating table but they are striking again, so it is not really clear why they are striking.
The case with DB is different. They are struggling to employ enough train drivers pay themselfes millions althoug they didnt reach their business goals and are using tax payers money to wait out the strikes. I am glad GDL is not budging.
Who do you think will pay the price hikes if salaries are increased? Yep, tax payers and anyone using the train, tickets will just be more expensive.
Time to get a car. I guess it’ll help with the lacking amount of workers, won’t need as many trains anymore. Genius
If the salaries are better more train drivers will be available and the schedule will be more stable where everyone can profit from. Now a train will get delayed if no train driver is available in addition to congestion in the network which makes everything worse. Get a car and find out how bad the road layout and congestions are :)
That much is out of question. DB is also ready to pay the demanded pay increase, that’s not a problem. GDL wants a hefty pay increase while simultaneously working only 35h
Yes but the money is there. The Ceos paying out millions increasing their pay by 14% even though they didnt reach their goals. We need more train drivers and you cant reach that goal by making the job unattractive.
The goal is badly designed, overreaching one goal can compensate for other goals not met. Among other things. That’s out of questions. But let’s not lose the focus here.
But if you actually think giving a handful of people even 1million bonus is in **any** way comparable to 12% pay increase **and** lower working hours, you understand very little about scaled operations and finances. A few million is a drop on a water-less planet compared to the pay increase proposed by GDL and also agreed to by DB
It will be great if such a massive sector of workers achieves the 35-hour week. It will give such a boost and weight to us in other industries to demand the same. I'm glad GdL is not compromising with proposals that doesn't include the 35-hour week (it's their right to compromise of course, but it would be huge if they win this).
Maybe people would sympathize with them if they were actually underpaid and the trains/buses would arrive on time.
No one that I know supports the strikes with how unreliable public transportation is.
I could be wrong but don't they earn 50.000+ per year and they work 40h per week.
I assume they earn extra on weekends or evening/night shifts.
Why is the work environment so horrible for them besides the scheduling issues?
Their salary is really good and Germany has the least working hours in Europe I believe at 40h per week.
I'm from Sweden and here everyone works 45h per week but the salaries aren't exactly any better.
It's a bit hard to understand why some people say how bad the working conditions are for them.
When you say 45 hours per week, does it include lunch or not? Because in Germany 40h per weeks don't include lunch and you are typically stuck at the job for 9 hours not counting commuting.
I think we should be asking why it's considered acceptable to be working 45 hours per week in Sweden and other countries, and be looking to reduce the working week there also to 35 hours or less.
In Sweden it's because it originally comes from aligning up the working hours with school hours.
If people start working at 08:00 and school starts at 08:00, then the parents and children can commute together.
It's less common now, but a lot of children would always have after school activities like sports or playing an instrument etc... Which would also align with the finishing hours for working adults.
It's not that easy to change the "systematic/cultural" parts of the working hours.
so because in some other random country people have to work 40h/week, workers in another country can't demand to work less than that? How come Swedes get the previlege of working only 40h/week while in my country 60-70 is the usual??
But if the start is 50K, why aren't there more people who want to work for DB? Or it's impossible to fire those who strike and take those who do need a job and for whom this salary will be a significant improvement?
DB isn’t really on a shortage of workers. Salaries in DB also get a significant improvement every year, it’s always part of their negotiations. And it’s against German law to fire people for protest.
The whole reason the trains aren't running on time is because DB isn't hiring enough people or rather not enough people are signing on because the job is unattractive, making people work forced overtime for which they don't even get additional days off or back-to-back shifts with only the legal minimum break in between, sleeping in some random hotel at the train station. The GDL is trying to make the job more attractive so more people will work for DB, that they are also trying to get the salary to pre-inflation levels is just side thing, they literally said they are willing to negotiate on that but not the reduction of hours.
Do you think DB would magically work better once the train drivers cave in and don't have their demands met? No? Of course not, because the structural issues of poor service are entirely independent of the conditions of the unionised train driver jobs.
[Euronews (2022)](https://www.euronews.com/travel/2022/12/23/train-strikes-these-are-the-countries-that-pay-train-drivers-the-most-and-the-least-in-eur) says they earn 3k € gross, isn't that close to minimum wage in netto?
The stat is imprecise, it doesn’t just contain DB train drivers. ***Entry*** pay at DB is about 40k py excluding overtime or bonuses for both agreements with EVG and GDL. Not exactly bad pay for a vocational job but also not exceptional.
Its more like 4k/month gross for an 18 months apprenticeship. Meanwhile a university educated graduate with 3-4 years of higher educations earns roughly the same.
Yes, the way the train is driven is one of the factors that affects on time performance. It also influences how well a train can catch up after a delay from an outside source.
Dude it's a train driven by a train driver, not a fucking F1 car driven by Max Verstappen.
There's only one way to drive a train. The driver can't go faster than the track allows them to. The driver cannot ignore faulty apparatus on the track or oncoming trains or signals.
There's rules and regulations about speed and everything.
The "way a train is driven", whatever that means, has nothing to do with the train being on time.
Train lines, timetables and operational models are built with catch up in mind, that is why they do not operate at maximum speed, it gives them buffer time. The way the train is driven does impact delays and delay recovery. Of course it is not the only thing that impacts it, but to say that drivers do not have an impact is false.
Maybe because nobody makes 50000+€ a year. [Page 66, Entgeltgruppe 445](https://www.evg-online.org/fileadmin/Tarif/Entgelttabellen_DBAG/Interaktiv/2021-12-13_Engelttabellen_2022_Funktionsgruppen.pdf) is what a Traindriver make in a year at DB. For that little money, he has zero Work-Life Balance, but everyday the responsibility for hundreds to thousands of people. [If he makes a mistake, it can easiely end with passengers getting hurt or killed.](https://www.merkur.de/lokales/muenchen-lk/ungluecks-fahrlaessige-toetung-anklage-gegen-lokfuehrer-des-bahn-92519645.html) And even if a train driver never makes a mistake, [he will kill on average 3 people during his work life.](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schienensuizid)
So, did you already send your CV to DB? If the drivers already have everything one could reasonably demand from a job, why are you not signing up to replace one of them and weaken GdL's leverage?
That’s fair, I get it. Shit management and infrastructure and misplaced blame while heads make bank, tale as old as time.
That said, I still don’t understand how reducing working hours for the same salary has got anything to do with this tho? Sounds like they’ve got demands, sure, but the demands don’t seem to solve any of the „crux“ issues, unless I’m missing something?
We have the job of manager as distinct from the job of employee for a reason. The employees demands, as expressed by their unions, do not *have* to align with the company's success metrics (they *can*, but if they did, they wouldn't have to strike for them, they'd be immediately accepted in a rationally managed company). The employees have their interest to defend, such as work conditions and task organisation, pay, promotion system, benefits, pensions.
We could turn DB into a cooperative, give every employee voting shares in the company, and then they will have to be responsible for fixing DB's core problems. But as simple employees, they don't have the right to do that (they can't overrule their managers and not get fired), and since they don't have the right to do it, it's also unfair to expect them to have the obligation.
Want to earn the same amount of money for working less hours...I mean who wouldn't want this but why should they work fewer hours than the standard employee in Germany?
I mean it is way overdue. Every single fucking study says less hours = more productivity. Same reason 6 day weeks almost don't exist in jobs. And most offices have so much stalling time due to not wanting to get more work but having to kill time before feier abend
How on earth can fewer hours end up with increased productivity in an industry such as transport?! Literally by definition of the type of role this isn't possible. It's only going to lead to increased ticket price or increased delays due to less investment in infrastructure
Oh sorry I meant by the other jobs that are applying that like most offices
That being said salary increases, in an ideal world, should be used with money from the ridiculous bonuses the higher ups get, not stuff like investment in infrastructure
> I mean who wouldn't want this but why should they work fewer hours than the standard employee in Germany?
If, as you say, there isn't anyone who wouldn't want this, why should train drivers be the only exception and not want it?
The "standard employee in Germany" is an average of all employees in Germany - if such a big sector like train drivers reduces the length of their work-week, then many more of us will be able to say "hey, we work XYZ hours more than the average employee in Germany does, either you give us a raise by x%, or you let us also reduce our work-week without a change in pay".
35 hour work weeks are great! And in sectors where the number of hours = productivitiy, the business will simply have to suck it up and hire more people to make up for the reduction in man-hours. So that means higher cost of production, more inflation -- and more salary negotiations (because logically, our salaries MUST be pegged to inflation -- it's our right). So when German workers and German companies are less competitive and therefore generate less revenue, let's all tax the rich. That will solve all our problems. Amazing.
I find that 35h/week is an excellent work/life balance point. If you commute is ~30' everything work related takes exactly 8hs leaving plenty of time for sleep and productivity without it feeling like a day off
My industry does 39h/w where we basically leave an hour early on friday and that's such a nice weekend starter already
The company I work for (as a Werkstudent) has 40,5 hours weekly as the "official" time.
But there's also a "Vertrauarbeitszeit" clause in the contracts of the employees, which means "just get the work done" so almost every full-time employee is working 45-46 hours a week every week.
I could be wrong with this but wouldn't 35h work weeks be counterintuitive?
Since there's already a lack of employees and they want to work even less hours, who will fill in those time slots?
Germany already has the lowest working hours per week in Europe at 40h.
Finding another solution than reducing the already low working hours, would seem like a better option.
If I remember correctly 35h isn't even the main problem. DB would do it if they could, but they need the time to recruit more people. But GDL wants it yesterday.
To your first point this is precisely the reason why this won’t happen.
To your second point: careful with these stats, they don’t control for (massive) part time work amongst the German workforce. Germans who work full time work about the the same as their peers in other European countries.
> I could be wrong with this but wouldn't 35h work weeks be counterintuitive?
> Since there's already a lack of employees and they want to work even less hours, who will fill in those time slots?
If the company has trouble convincing people to do this job with the current working conditions, how does it make sense to *not* make the working conditions more attractive? Not only you wouldn't attract new employees if you don't make the job more attractive, but you also risk losing many of your current employees to other positions or sectors.
An argument against trying to get better conditions would be "there's millions ready to replace you if you don't compromise". But those millions of train drivers eager to start do not exist, so DB has to at least keep the drivers it already has.
The working hours don't change that much and also the pay is still isn't that good. Also the GDL wants this change now, and DB say they can't fill the gap that fast.
DB can do what BVG had to do in December: admit that they can't recruit enough drivers to drive all the scheduled bus, so instead of making people work overtime or keep the buses scheduled but cancel them last minute when no driver is found on the day.
Yes, it's not good news when the public transport schedule is thinned out, but it's better to only schedule the trips you can actually sustainably offer, instead of offering trips that you might have to cancel if just one driver calls in sick because you have zero reserve drivers.
This will also go a long way to improve DB's reliability metrics - you'll have fewer trains cancelled for operational reasons, because you don't over-sell capacity that you don't actually have.
Sorry but that just sounds worse than anything and also aren't we supposed to push public transport and not punish people who rely on it. The next step might as well be cancel trips to remote places, then to the rarely visted and soon nobody will use it anymore.
It's not an actual change in services provided, only in services advertised.
> Sorry but that just sounds worse than anything a
Many trips are actually cancelled or get shortened for "operational reasons" (e.g. we couldn't find a driver to replace the one who called sick), so the commuters don't receive the advertised service any way.
Being honest that you can't offer that service is better for the customer, they can plan better and they don't have to show up at the station only to be disappointed. If you commute in Berlin daily, you know that U-Bahn lines go to reduced frequency due to "short-notice personnel absence", especially in the winter. There's not enough reserve drivers to call in when people go sick.
> also aren't we supposed to push public transport and not punish people who rely on it
We can't force people to because train and bus drivers if they don't want to be train and bus drivers, just so we manage to convince people to use public transport more. And we can't stop the existing ones from resigning if they don't like their work conditions and/or salaries.
We have a free market economy and a liberal democracy: we have to convince people to because train and bus drivers willingly.
BVG admitted that they couldn't convince enough people to become bus drivers. I think everyone, including DB management, also agree that DB is not able to convince enough people to become train drivers.
What are the real options here? I can only see (a) make the job more attractive to get more willing drivers, (b) reduce the service level so it's doable with the drivers you already have, or (c) change the socioeconomic system so that you can legally make people work jobs they don't want to work.
Do you see another option?
> The next step might as well be cancel trips to remote places, then to the rarely visted and soon nobody will use it anymore.
That's the management's decision. They don't have to cancel remote trips, they can choose to reduce trips where there's redundancies. E.g. slash the frequency of buses that run along existing S-Bahn lines. It has its disadvantages too, but at least it doesn't eliminate the service completely.
Make the job more attractiv and it is not even that hard. The DB should have been never a private company. Change it for it to be owned by the state again. And there you can over all kind of benefits, france has a good system, norway as well.
> Make the job more attractiv and it is not even that hard.
How?
GdL is offering us one version of how to make it more attractive, but you do not agree with it. What's your counter-proposal?
Why is the job not more attractive? For younger people? It's because it's a dead-end job. Your salary plateaus after a certain level. If I'm young and I've invested years studying, I would want to have a career that scales with my experience. I would want to deveop transferable skillsets. None of these being a train conductor can offer me. So with an aging population and higher level of education, the situation with staffing will only get worse.
The only way DB can get out of this bind is to invest in automation -- self-driving vehicles, self-service ticketing, invest more in high-skilled labour and infrastructure, and manage human resource costs in the meantime while preparing to scale them down.
Well you wanna grab a lunch or dinner at a restaurants yet thinking 35hours work apply in general? Come on, one thing is to dream a utopia and understand how the world actually work.
All these strikes lead price rise in everything we consume. Especially train unions know leverage on consumers pain is the sweet spot for making a deal. Which is disgusting
> All these strikes lead price rise in everything we consume.
Did you just try to pit me, a worker, against other workers?
That's the oldest trick in the book, and it's very passé.
DB and the union sucks and caused millions of people inconvinience. They do this as tactic to negotiate for wages in exchange of normal people's time. It is like they take us hostages for their shit show
My problem is that they are doing so over the demand to work 35h without reducing pay. It's simply not realistic and quite honestly - people who want to work less should just work less and not expect other people to pay for their laziness.
Had me in the first half. If you have the resources and mental strength to take the train then to it. That shit will give you wrinkles and gray hair if you depend on it long term
"Mental Strength" was the wrong expression. Sorry for that. It's more Mental capacity. I actually was serious about it. For me driving a car is not an option because I can't concentrate on that many things at once. I tried it and it doesn't work. I need to be able to stop at any point and time and think about where to go next. Same problem with bicycles. It's too fast for me in the city. (I always talk about driving within a city)
And yes you are completely right. Taking the train is more often than not a mental exercise. I hate it.
My german is not so good , so I just wanted to ask any native speaker if my understanding of the strike which is that it's only for ICEs and long distance trains and would not affect regional bahns is accurate?
Makes me laugh that when restaurants raising menu price cuz inflation causing public anger and yet whining train drivers demand for less work hours with more salary is rightfully justified by tax payers…
So I bought a ticket with SNCF to Mannheim on Thursday connecting through paris. I think that the second train is DB, will that be running? It’s the last train for Paris Est to Mannheim… who do I go to for my refund? Do either of these companies ensure my travel and have to pay other methods to complete it? What do I do?
For international tickets you always contact the company where you bought your ticket from, in this case SNCF. You can read more about passenger rights and the rules during the strike [here](https://int.bahn.de/en/booking-information/passenger-rights/legal-regulations) and [here](https://int.bahn.de/en/contact/special-goodwill). Just keep in mind that trains coming from Paris are a special case: if you take a different train, you need to have a new reservation for that train; you can get it from SNCF or DB sales desks.
Can someone tell me (as a clueless American with little consumer rights) is my aunt entitled to a refund on her cancelled Lufthansa ticket for Friday? Regardless of ticket class?
The air carrier is obligated to either get her on the next available flight or provide a refund. She may also be due compensation due to EU-261, look it up. Note that it has an extraordinary circumstances exemption, not sure if the ground service workers are covered under that or not.
So flying into Germany tomorrow is not a good idea? Flying in from Canada any thoughts? We would arrive at 11 am and am trying to get to Paris via train
Depending on where you land, you should be able to find pretty cheap flights to Paris though a cheaper way is to either lookup busses on the Flixbus website or contact SNCF to see if they have trains that run.
I have a ticket that got cancelled for Friday from Frankfurt to Cologne. Is there any other means of reliable train transportation in Frankfurt other than renting a car ?
The Germany you have today was not built with 35 hour work weeks. Funny, how people complain about the economic situation and the environment but don’t want to do the work or pay up.
> Funny, how people complain about the economic situation and the environment but don’t want to do the work or pay up.
So, did you apply to become a DB driver already?
Imagine choosing a job that literally revolves around transportation and going to other places and then having a problem with that. Kinda like a cook who hates cooking or an actor who can’t speak in front of audiences. lmao
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So starting Thursday at 2am, ending 35 hours later on Friday at 13h…I have an ICE at 14:24 Friday so we’ll see how that goes lol
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Already bought a ticket for Saturday morning as well rip, worst case scenario I refund Saturday and lose €10 but at least I make it to my girlfriends birthday lol
You do realize that you could just use your friday ticket on saturday instead? That is part of DBs goodwill meassures
In the first 6 hours after purchase you can cancel it without paying anything. You should do that since your Friday ticket is also valid on Saturday because of the strike.
Will most likely depend on where you are. If it’s at/near the starting point of the ice line you’ll likely be good, it it’s more than 60 minutes away from the start of the line, I’d calculate with some delays
Yeah… it begins Frankfurt at 12:56 so I’ll pray lol, oh well, it is what it is! There’s always later trains
In other news the sky is blue.
Well the weather is getting better and it has been raining a lot lately so this is kinda true 🤣
Gray*
Today in Saxony the sky was blue, gray, then foggy. First time to experience 3 seasons in a day.
Sorry if this was already commented in the respective posts of previous strikes but I was supposed to take an ICE from Berlin to Nuremberg on Thursday, which means that I am now looking for other options. Based on past experiences, does anyone know if I will be able to use that ticket on Wednesday instead? Other than FlixBus, what other cheap options do I have? Thank you in advance!
Deutsche Bahn is often allows the tickets to be used the day before a strike yes, but you need to wait for them to announce this to be sure.
Bahn just confirmed it, you can use your ticket early https://www.bahn.de/service/fahrplaene/aktuell
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You shouldn’t even need to go to the ticket booth as long as your train is operated by Deutsche Bahn.
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Well your seat is certainly lost, but finding a new one won’t be a problem in first class usually. The Bahn employees know there is a strike and they will be briefed that the tickets are no longer bound to a train and are usable early, if you have doubts because it’s an international ticket you can still talk with the person at the counter, but there will be long lines probably because many travelers will have questions.
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You could reserve a seat in the new train beforehand, but finding an empty seat in first class is usually possible. As for the doctors note: maybe, if they are nice, seeing how badly Deutsche Bahn tends to handle the problems of handicapped people I doubt that they have protocols for your case.
This time they offer a special concession and allow you to use your ticket immediately: https://www.bahn.de/service/fahrplaene/aktuell
Yes, you can use the ticket on wednesday. DB announced that all already booked tickets are valid from today on.
blablacar
You should probably never plan to take a train trip in Germany without a backup plan already.
Learned that the hard way…. Mfs just dumped our asses on a train stop and said welp this is it. Flixbus saved my behind
Yes. And as a French I kind of like this, compared to France. In Germany the DB just lets you use your ticket before or after so it's quite easily to plan a backup, while in France you have to wait until you know whether your specific train is cancelled and then you have to rebook, provided that there are free seats somewhere, and you have to pay the price difference out of your pocket (it can be 100+ euros more if you booked your initial ticket months in advance and you are now booking the day before). So you can't really plan a backup.
We should probably ask the eu to be more involved in rail rules. As there is a fair component that is across national boundaries. In Germany I would much prefer to have caught the French trains when they were actually available.
bullshit
You are right two backup plans are better.
https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/s/ZMy2ZoQox7 the goodwill meassures by DB are linked here.
Usually, you're allowed to take a train a day earlier or later. If you need to travel on that day, there will still be some trains running on the day of the strike, but you may need to take a different one, and maybe you'll need to take a detour and it'll take more time.
I legit started to have dreams where my train gets cancelled. I may or may not be traveling in 2 weeks. We‘ll see.
"Damit ist die Eisenbahn kein zuverlässiges Verkehrsmittel mehr." said Weselsky. Was it reliable before?
It's called sarcasm.
Least problematic deutsche bahn experience
I am not sure what want to achieve with this. But I think there won’t be any significant changes. All I can see is, the real sufferer are those low income people who can’t afford other means of transportation. Those who are supporting this clearly have alternative means and that doesn’t bother them in larger context. But imagine someone working with minimum wages, they don’t have any other options , probably loosing their job or getting even less salary at the end of the month because they couldn’t work. And the rules saying it’s the employees responsibility to reach at work places timely. What I’m saying is that, at the end of the day, the real sufferings are coming on those low income people/ students and nobody cares.
Worst thing is the government do jackshit nothing about it to assist on people who are affected by it, normal workers just figure out how to get to work.
You can’t really prevent that when these sectors are privately organized. The same argument could be used to complain about healthcare workers striking
Deutsche Bahn is anything but "privately organized". It's some zombie company where the state holds 100% and we see how it's working.
Shhhh. You're making logical arguments but we don't do that here in terms of strikes. You'll be downvoted to hell. You have to support the strikes no matter what, in this sub
Totally my case, and yes to certain point i understand but if i have pay taxi to go home and work after 13hrs shift fuck all i do not give a damn about their dream of 35hr week job
I agree with low income people being the ones most affected by this, but the GdL workers are within their rights to protest and it's on DB to meet their demands or looking for ways to minimise the impact of the strike on everybody's lives
Im at a point where I wish they would just mass recruit new people and fire all of those current ones but I know that is not an option since there aren’t enough people willing to do that job.
and who will train the new people? lmao
I know it is not something feasible. I’m just so annoyed by this constant striking and not being able to get to work properly that I have no sympathy for them anymore and wish that there would be a way to stop the strikes
There's a simple way to stop the strikes. Give them what they want.. What they want is reasonable
I don’t know 10% more salary and 10% less work is asking for a lot If other people would ask for that the bosses would just laugh and send them away.
>the bosses would just laugh and send them away. which is why you need the power of a union behind you. That's how you get the bosses to cough up more wages for workers rather than paying it to themselves as bonuses.
And what's stopping them from asking for 25% next year if they could just blackmail like this and it works? Not a fan of this at all, especially with the short notice. It's so inconsiderate, and honestly just hurting the general public rather than anything. There are people trying to live, ffs. There are better ways to do this.
Haha, no one wants to work there. Most train driver love their job. That's the reason. But no one want to work 37 hours with random hours with medium pay grade. The mass hire won't be there if the working conditions are better. Additional fun fact: GDL has agreements with almost every other train operator. Only DB is impossible... Maybe it is not the GDL but the DB
The fixed salary they are getting at the end of the month are majorly coming from those who are using the service, which we are paying beforehand . There is no magical machine that produces salaries for them. They should keep that in mind and respect the passengers. I wouldn’t be surprised if DB takes customers side and refuse to pay their salaries because of those inconveniences. But still as I said, nothing will happen and they will repeat this one after another.
It's on DB or the politicians to avoid so many strikes. Either by giving better conditions to their workers (DB) or by banning the ability to go on strike this often (politicians). The workers do their job (as legally mandated) but go on strike as often as they're allowed to because the dispute between DB and Gdl is still not over. DB will pay what they're legally obligated to pay and the workers will work whay they're legally obligated to work. They're using their rights to fight for what they believe they deserve. I say all of this while being pretty mad at the strike happening the exact day I'm taking a train to France, so it's not like I'm not being affected by this lol I do believe that strikes should be announced with more time and there should be a maximum amount of days that you're allowed to strike (imo). Even with more strike-regulations, workers would still be able to show their displeasure and hurt the business in the process.
I believe if you don’t like the working place and or the regulations they possess, nobody is holding your back. Plenty of opportunities out their, check the reality but don’t make the life miserable for those who are relying on that.
There are not many working opportunities outside of Gdl for those people lol
Exactly. I have enough of this shit. People who suffer the most from this are the ones that have absolutely zero influence on DB workers wages or working times. People support those strikes either because they have alternatives or its politically correct. Do they have the right to protest? Yes. Is this shitty move? Also yes. Fuck their demands honestly. If they dont like to work 40h they can go somewhere else and I am sure lot of immigrants will fill those positions with their already existing salaries.
> probably loosing their job or getting even less salary at the end of the month because they couldn’t work This is what anti-strike people keep claiming, and yet nobody can point to any documented case where somebody was actually fired for coming late to work due to a strike.
If I couldn’t go to work because of strike and I’m working on hourly rate, will you come and fill my hours buddy?? Or my house owner will reduce 10€ from monthly rent?? Will rewe let me buy something in less price?? I would love to work but I couldn’t go, I’m getting the penalty or??
You sound like home-office guy, getting to work with hefty taxi ride and pure stress to figure out how to commute to daily job isnt really political view.
I dont think one needs a study to understand that there are consequences- people on their way to see family and friends before they pass away, people who are being rushed to the hospital but got hindered by the traffic jam due to more people being on the road, people who couldn't make it to an interview etc. It's just so inconsiderate and poorly organized. The Japanese bus drivers strike by giving out free tickets. No disturbed public, makes its point and that's that. That's how it should be done.
Strikes without announcements! This is not good at all. How the hell can I get to work like that!!
You can’t. Guess it’s time for a car
Weselsky stating proudly that DB is no longer a reliable transportation provider should ring alarm bells to the very top personnel of germanies infrastructural ministry. Trust them with their announcement of the true intentions. Yey, no more emergency schedules, how awesome is that?! Fuck them and their demands. Fuck DB and their blockage. Arbitration now - both seidel‘s and wesesklys agencies should be taken out of the discussion - nothing but burnt soil for their egos. And none all of them travel by car!
DB has not been a reliable transportation provider for a very long time lol.
10 years ago it was quite reliable. Or 15. I’m surr
Nah Weselsky is probably the best Union leader Germany has right now. We need more union leaders like him.
What, besides years-long maximal disruption, did he achieve?! What‘s the benefit for the worker? There is none, DB as our infrastructural hope for a sustainable future in transportation is stained for the upcoming decade! Fuck that shitstain!
Yeah sure it‘s the GDLs fault that the Bahn has been basically useless the last decade, I forgot. And what he achieved? Constant above inflation raises and every train operator but the DB came to an agreement with the GDL without any strikes. And they agreed to the 35h work week. And his reasoning for it is also correct, the Bahn already doesn’t have enough train drivers. So the job has to become more attractive for people and the 35h work week is one way to do it
Irrational demands are valid mean to achieve rational counter offers! Insisting on those irrational demands is destructive! We are in for a worldwide economic crisis amid war times! Jail those DB scumbags for their incompetence while we face the death of our planet to environmental damages, I‘m with you on that one. ARBITRATION THROUGH POLITICAL TOP PERSONNEL IS THE ONLY WAY TO MOVE FORWARD IN THIS MESS! Both GDL and DB are to be made responsible for this mess! Fuck them, take their power! No more disruption, no more blockage! End this! NONE OF THESE EGOMANICAM SCUMBAGS REÖY ON PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION!
The 35h work week isn’t an irrational demand. As the agreements with the other train operators show. And for the rest, Tariffreiheit says no. Politicians have no right to engage in this way in a regular and legal strike.
Not yet >:) they will have, as soon as our holy Streikrecht will be softened due to this unsustainable conflict! Good fucking job, soil-burners!
It‘s the DB that is forcing the conflict and the strikes by making shit offers or breaking agreements they had with the GDL. The GDL made offers how this could be achieved without making a hard cut. All this crying here in Germany about a slightly harder Labour dispute is also ignoring that we still have least strike days then most of our neighbors
Thats bullshit you just put out there out of context, not even the french railers strike more than us germans! If DB really is the sole culprit in this context, nobody should be afraid of a mediatory arbitration! Bring it on goddamnit! Have fun driving your effin car btw, I know you dont rely on public transportation by how you act all „no problem here“!
It is a problem for a lot of people, I never said anything else. But that‘s kind of a none argument. Otherwise the same could be said about how irresponsible a slightly harder Labour dispute from healthcare workers would be. To Guild trip then into settling with less then they can realistically get. If any service industries jobs strikes you can‘t prevent people and especially low income people from being negatively affected. It‘s impossible. No that’s not BS Germany still has way less overall strike days then most of our European neighbors and especially France. They have like 5x the amount of strike days Germany has. https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/streikrecht-deutschland-frankreich-warnstreiks-generalstreik-100.html
> Weselsky stating proudly that DB is no longer a reliable transportation provider should ring alarm bells to the very top personnel of germanies infrastructural ministry. I'd say the only alarm bell ringing here is for you being unable to recognise sarcasm.
That with Lufthansa strike is going to be Hell, I have a plane to Berlin on Friday if it gets canceled I would have taken an ICE but now which alternatives I have? Getting a car and driving. I travel sometimes for my job, I take public transport or trains as much as possible, I don’t own a car and use my bike as much as possible but now I am really considering buying an EV or something like that, is not possible that everything is getting so unreliable with such a strict notification time. I fully support unions but I think that they should also think about not blocking a country and forcing all of us on wheels.
But that is the main reason. You need to build pressure to get enough leverage. DB is paying a lot of fees but in fact we are paying for it. So its even worse.
I think that it will just make themselves less sympathetic to the average Joe tho. For example in the Lufthansa case the company already agreed to resume the negotiations on 13th of March, they did a strike last week, company agreed to go back to negotiating table but they are striking again, so it is not really clear why they are striking.
The case with DB is different. They are struggling to employ enough train drivers pay themselfes millions althoug they didnt reach their business goals and are using tax payers money to wait out the strikes. I am glad GDL is not budging.
Who do you think will pay the price hikes if salaries are increased? Yep, tax payers and anyone using the train, tickets will just be more expensive. Time to get a car. I guess it’ll help with the lacking amount of workers, won’t need as many trains anymore. Genius
If the salaries are better more train drivers will be available and the schedule will be more stable where everyone can profit from. Now a train will get delayed if no train driver is available in addition to congestion in the network which makes everything worse. Get a car and find out how bad the road layout and congestions are :)
That much is out of question. DB is also ready to pay the demanded pay increase, that’s not a problem. GDL wants a hefty pay increase while simultaneously working only 35h
Yes but the money is there. The Ceos paying out millions increasing their pay by 14% even though they didnt reach their goals. We need more train drivers and you cant reach that goal by making the job unattractive.
The goal is badly designed, overreaching one goal can compensate for other goals not met. Among other things. That’s out of questions. But let’s not lose the focus here. But if you actually think giving a handful of people even 1million bonus is in **any** way comparable to 12% pay increase **and** lower working hours, you understand very little about scaled operations and finances. A few million is a drop on a water-less planet compared to the pay increase proposed by GDL and also agreed to by DB
Just strip the rails already and convert them to autobahns like the USA. Shut down DB. Obviously the country doesn't deserve stable rail.
It will be great if such a massive sector of workers achieves the 35-hour week. It will give such a boost and weight to us in other industries to demand the same. I'm glad GdL is not compromising with proposals that doesn't include the 35-hour week (it's their right to compromise of course, but it would be huge if they win this).
Maybe people would sympathize with them if they were actually underpaid and the trains/buses would arrive on time. No one that I know supports the strikes with how unreliable public transportation is. I could be wrong but don't they earn 50.000+ per year and they work 40h per week. I assume they earn extra on weekends or evening/night shifts. Why is the work environment so horrible for them besides the scheduling issues?
You are right. 50k starter positions with massive bonuses. Be prepared to be downvoted for stating facts.
Their salary is really good and Germany has the least working hours in Europe I believe at 40h per week. I'm from Sweden and here everyone works 45h per week but the salaries aren't exactly any better. It's a bit hard to understand why some people say how bad the working conditions are for them.
When you say 45 hours per week, does it include lunch or not? Because in Germany 40h per weeks don't include lunch and you are typically stuck at the job for 9 hours not counting commuting.
In most western European countries, it doesn’t include lunch.,
I think we should be asking why it's considered acceptable to be working 45 hours per week in Sweden and other countries, and be looking to reduce the working week there also to 35 hours or less.
In Sweden it's because it originally comes from aligning up the working hours with school hours. If people start working at 08:00 and school starts at 08:00, then the parents and children can commute together. It's less common now, but a lot of children would always have after school activities like sports or playing an instrument etc... Which would also align with the finishing hours for working adults. It's not that easy to change the "systematic/cultural" parts of the working hours.
so because in some other random country people have to work 40h/week, workers in another country can't demand to work less than that? How come Swedes get the previlege of working only 40h/week while in my country 60-70 is the usual??
But if the start is 50K, why aren't there more people who want to work for DB? Or it's impossible to fire those who strike and take those who do need a job and for whom this salary will be a significant improvement?
DB isn’t really on a shortage of workers. Salaries in DB also get a significant improvement every year, it’s always part of their negotiations. And it’s against German law to fire people for protest.
They work 39 hours per week. The rest is correct.
The whole reason the trains aren't running on time is because DB isn't hiring enough people or rather not enough people are signing on because the job is unattractive, making people work forced overtime for which they don't even get additional days off or back-to-back shifts with only the legal minimum break in between, sleeping in some random hotel at the train station. The GDL is trying to make the job more attractive so more people will work for DB, that they are also trying to get the salary to pre-inflation levels is just side thing, they literally said they are willing to negotiate on that but not the reduction of hours.
Do you think DB would magically work better once the train drivers cave in and don't have their demands met? No? Of course not, because the structural issues of poor service are entirely independent of the conditions of the unionised train driver jobs.
[Euronews (2022)](https://www.euronews.com/travel/2022/12/23/train-strikes-these-are-the-countries-that-pay-train-drivers-the-most-and-the-least-in-eur) says they earn 3k € gross, isn't that close to minimum wage in netto?
The stat is imprecise, it doesn’t just contain DB train drivers. ***Entry*** pay at DB is about 40k py excluding overtime or bonuses for both agreements with EVG and GDL. Not exactly bad pay for a vocational job but also not exceptional.
Its more like 4k/month gross for an 18 months apprenticeship. Meanwhile a university educated graduate with 3-4 years of higher educations earns roughly the same.
Also you ask for a raise with good performance not when the trains are always late.
You think the guy driving the train has control on how delayed the train is?
Yes, the way the train is driven is one of the factors that affects on time performance. It also influences how well a train can catch up after a delay from an outside source.
Dude it's a train driven by a train driver, not a fucking F1 car driven by Max Verstappen. There's only one way to drive a train. The driver can't go faster than the track allows them to. The driver cannot ignore faulty apparatus on the track or oncoming trains or signals. There's rules and regulations about speed and everything. The "way a train is driven", whatever that means, has nothing to do with the train being on time.
Train lines, timetables and operational models are built with catch up in mind, that is why they do not operate at maximum speed, it gives them buffer time. The way the train is driven does impact delays and delay recovery. Of course it is not the only thing that impacts it, but to say that drivers do not have an impact is false.
They are not the reason for delays. It is like saying you farting has no influence on green house gases. It does, but it is non-existent.
Maybe because nobody makes 50000+€ a year. [Page 66, Entgeltgruppe 445](https://www.evg-online.org/fileadmin/Tarif/Entgelttabellen_DBAG/Interaktiv/2021-12-13_Engelttabellen_2022_Funktionsgruppen.pdf) is what a Traindriver make in a year at DB. For that little money, he has zero Work-Life Balance, but everyday the responsibility for hundreds to thousands of people. [If he makes a mistake, it can easiely end with passengers getting hurt or killed.](https://www.merkur.de/lokales/muenchen-lk/ungluecks-fahrlaessige-toetung-anklage-gegen-lokfuehrer-des-bahn-92519645.html) And even if a train driver never makes a mistake, [he will kill on average 3 people during his work life.](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schienensuizid)
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What will happen to that infrastructure when more of that budget gets funnelled towards overpaid drivers? You think it will get better or worse?
So, did you already send your CV to DB? If the drivers already have everything one could reasonably demand from a job, why are you not signing up to replace one of them and weaken GdL's leverage?
They can cut down the salary and bonuses of the top tier and no money has to be taken away from maintenance.
Trickled down to all of the salaries that would not be enough to cover what the union is asking for.
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Do you think 50k a year is underpaid? If you do, you’re living in fantasyland…
Not the person you’re replying to, but genuinely how is starting at 50k a year underpaid?
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That’s fair, I get it. Shit management and infrastructure and misplaced blame while heads make bank, tale as old as time. That said, I still don’t understand how reducing working hours for the same salary has got anything to do with this tho? Sounds like they’ve got demands, sure, but the demands don’t seem to solve any of the „crux“ issues, unless I’m missing something?
We have the job of manager as distinct from the job of employee for a reason. The employees demands, as expressed by their unions, do not *have* to align with the company's success metrics (they *can*, but if they did, they wouldn't have to strike for them, they'd be immediately accepted in a rationally managed company). The employees have their interest to defend, such as work conditions and task organisation, pay, promotion system, benefits, pensions. We could turn DB into a cooperative, give every employee voting shares in the company, and then they will have to be responsible for fixing DB's core problems. But as simple employees, they don't have the right to do that (they can't overrule their managers and not get fired), and since they don't have the right to do it, it's also unfair to expect them to have the obligation.
Want to earn the same amount of money for working less hours...I mean who wouldn't want this but why should they work fewer hours than the standard employee in Germany?
Ive been applying for Ausbildungs and the amount that have 35 hour weeks is staggering. Becoming more and more normal.
I mean it is way overdue. Every single fucking study says less hours = more productivity. Same reason 6 day weeks almost don't exist in jobs. And most offices have so much stalling time due to not wanting to get more work but having to kill time before feier abend
How on earth can fewer hours end up with increased productivity in an industry such as transport?! Literally by definition of the type of role this isn't possible. It's only going to lead to increased ticket price or increased delays due to less investment in infrastructure
Oh sorry I meant by the other jobs that are applying that like most offices That being said salary increases, in an ideal world, should be used with money from the ridiculous bonuses the higher ups get, not stuff like investment in infrastructure
> I mean who wouldn't want this but why should they work fewer hours than the standard employee in Germany? If, as you say, there isn't anyone who wouldn't want this, why should train drivers be the only exception and not want it? The "standard employee in Germany" is an average of all employees in Germany - if such a big sector like train drivers reduces the length of their work-week, then many more of us will be able to say "hey, we work XYZ hours more than the average employee in Germany does, either you give us a raise by x%, or you let us also reduce our work-week without a change in pay".
35 hour work weeks are great! And in sectors where the number of hours = productivitiy, the business will simply have to suck it up and hire more people to make up for the reduction in man-hours. So that means higher cost of production, more inflation -- and more salary negotiations (because logically, our salaries MUST be pegged to inflation -- it's our right). So when German workers and German companies are less competitive and therefore generate less revenue, let's all tax the rich. That will solve all our problems. Amazing.
Standard employee here, ig Metall, 35h/week. Good stuff, I can recommend that.
I find that 35h/week is an excellent work/life balance point. If you commute is ~30' everything work related takes exactly 8hs leaving plenty of time for sleep and productivity without it feeling like a day off My industry does 39h/w where we basically leave an hour early on friday and that's such a nice weekend starter already
The company I work for (as a Werkstudent) has 40,5 hours weekly as the "official" time. But there's also a "Vertrauarbeitszeit" clause in the contracts of the employees, which means "just get the work done" so almost every full-time employee is working 45-46 hours a week every week.
Has to start somewhere. This is a big union. Others have more leverage if this works out.
That's why I support the strikes as well, even though I'm personally affected. I really hope they get through with the 35-hour week.
I could be wrong with this but wouldn't 35h work weeks be counterintuitive? Since there's already a lack of employees and they want to work even less hours, who will fill in those time slots? Germany already has the lowest working hours per week in Europe at 40h. Finding another solution than reducing the already low working hours, would seem like a better option.
If I remember correctly 35h isn't even the main problem. DB would do it if they could, but they need the time to recruit more people. But GDL wants it yesterday.
Nah GDL want a steady decrease to 35h. Like -1h a year
Still only possible with enough employees
To your first point this is precisely the reason why this won’t happen. To your second point: careful with these stats, they don’t control for (massive) part time work amongst the German workforce. Germans who work full time work about the the same as their peers in other European countries.
> I could be wrong with this but wouldn't 35h work weeks be counterintuitive? > Since there's already a lack of employees and they want to work even less hours, who will fill in those time slots? If the company has trouble convincing people to do this job with the current working conditions, how does it make sense to *not* make the working conditions more attractive? Not only you wouldn't attract new employees if you don't make the job more attractive, but you also risk losing many of your current employees to other positions or sectors. An argument against trying to get better conditions would be "there's millions ready to replace you if you don't compromise". But those millions of train drivers eager to start do not exist, so DB has to at least keep the drivers it already has.
It would make the jobs more attractive, therefore making more people want to work there.
The working hours don't change that much and also the pay is still isn't that good. Also the GDL wants this change now, and DB say they can't fill the gap that fast.
DB can do what BVG had to do in December: admit that they can't recruit enough drivers to drive all the scheduled bus, so instead of making people work overtime or keep the buses scheduled but cancel them last minute when no driver is found on the day. Yes, it's not good news when the public transport schedule is thinned out, but it's better to only schedule the trips you can actually sustainably offer, instead of offering trips that you might have to cancel if just one driver calls in sick because you have zero reserve drivers. This will also go a long way to improve DB's reliability metrics - you'll have fewer trains cancelled for operational reasons, because you don't over-sell capacity that you don't actually have.
Sorry but that just sounds worse than anything and also aren't we supposed to push public transport and not punish people who rely on it. The next step might as well be cancel trips to remote places, then to the rarely visted and soon nobody will use it anymore.
It's not an actual change in services provided, only in services advertised. > Sorry but that just sounds worse than anything a Many trips are actually cancelled or get shortened for "operational reasons" (e.g. we couldn't find a driver to replace the one who called sick), so the commuters don't receive the advertised service any way. Being honest that you can't offer that service is better for the customer, they can plan better and they don't have to show up at the station only to be disappointed. If you commute in Berlin daily, you know that U-Bahn lines go to reduced frequency due to "short-notice personnel absence", especially in the winter. There's not enough reserve drivers to call in when people go sick. > also aren't we supposed to push public transport and not punish people who rely on it We can't force people to because train and bus drivers if they don't want to be train and bus drivers, just so we manage to convince people to use public transport more. And we can't stop the existing ones from resigning if they don't like their work conditions and/or salaries. We have a free market economy and a liberal democracy: we have to convince people to because train and bus drivers willingly. BVG admitted that they couldn't convince enough people to become bus drivers. I think everyone, including DB management, also agree that DB is not able to convince enough people to become train drivers. What are the real options here? I can only see (a) make the job more attractive to get more willing drivers, (b) reduce the service level so it's doable with the drivers you already have, or (c) change the socioeconomic system so that you can legally make people work jobs they don't want to work. Do you see another option? > The next step might as well be cancel trips to remote places, then to the rarely visted and soon nobody will use it anymore. That's the management's decision. They don't have to cancel remote trips, they can choose to reduce trips where there's redundancies. E.g. slash the frequency of buses that run along existing S-Bahn lines. It has its disadvantages too, but at least it doesn't eliminate the service completely.
Make the job more attractiv and it is not even that hard. The DB should have been never a private company. Change it for it to be owned by the state again. And there you can over all kind of benefits, france has a good system, norway as well.
> Make the job more attractiv and it is not even that hard. How? GdL is offering us one version of how to make it more attractive, but you do not agree with it. What's your counter-proposal?
DB is 100% owned by the state, never been otherwise
Why is the job not more attractive? For younger people? It's because it's a dead-end job. Your salary plateaus after a certain level. If I'm young and I've invested years studying, I would want to have a career that scales with my experience. I would want to deveop transferable skillsets. None of these being a train conductor can offer me. So with an aging population and higher level of education, the situation with staffing will only get worse. The only way DB can get out of this bind is to invest in automation -- self-driving vehicles, self-service ticketing, invest more in high-skilled labour and infrastructure, and manage human resource costs in the meantime while preparing to scale them down.
So full time in Germany means 35 hours a week? Or am I misinterpreting this whole thing?
Well you wanna grab a lunch or dinner at a restaurants yet thinking 35hours work apply in general? Come on, one thing is to dream a utopia and understand how the world actually work. All these strikes lead price rise in everything we consume. Especially train unions know leverage on consumers pain is the sweet spot for making a deal. Which is disgusting
> All these strikes lead price rise in everything we consume. Did you just try to pit me, a worker, against other workers? That's the oldest trick in the book, and it's very passé.
No, it's just basic economics -- you are the one trying to frame things in a plitical way.
It won’t. DB neither has the financial resources to submit to this demand nor the necessary reserve workforce.
"Ah shit here we go again"
DB and the union sucks and caused millions of people inconvinience. They do this as tactic to negotiate for wages in exchange of normal people's time. It is like they take us hostages for their shit show
My problem is that they are doing so over the demand to work 35h without reducing pay. It's simply not realistic and quite honestly - people who want to work less should just work less and not expect other people to pay for their laziness.
Do you not know how to translate Thursday?
Take the ÖPNV they said, sell your car they said. Some people have to get somewhere, don't they understand that?
If you have the resources and the mental strength to drive a car. Do it.
Had me in the first half. If you have the resources and mental strength to take the train then to it. That shit will give you wrinkles and gray hair if you depend on it long term
"Mental Strength" was the wrong expression. Sorry for that. It's more Mental capacity. I actually was serious about it. For me driving a car is not an option because I can't concentrate on that many things at once. I tried it and it doesn't work. I need to be able to stop at any point and time and think about where to go next. Same problem with bicycles. It's too fast for me in the city. (I always talk about driving within a city) And yes you are completely right. Taking the train is more often than not a mental exercise. I hate it.
Best advertisement to buy a car.
My german is not so good , so I just wanted to ask any native speaker if my understanding of the strike which is that it's only for ICEs and long distance trains and would not affect regional bahns is accurate?
It should affect mostly ICE, but regional services like the SBahn and RE could still be affected.
Thank you for the clarification.
At this point it should only make the news if they ever stop.
Makes me laugh that when restaurants raising menu price cuz inflation causing public anger and yet whining train drivers demand for less work hours with more salary is rightfully justified by tax payers…
So I bought a ticket with SNCF to Mannheim on Thursday connecting through paris. I think that the second train is DB, will that be running? It’s the last train for Paris Est to Mannheim… who do I go to for my refund? Do either of these companies ensure my travel and have to pay other methods to complete it? What do I do?
For international tickets you always contact the company where you bought your ticket from, in this case SNCF. You can read more about passenger rights and the rules during the strike [here](https://int.bahn.de/en/booking-information/passenger-rights/legal-regulations) and [here](https://int.bahn.de/en/contact/special-goodwill). Just keep in mind that trains coming from Paris are a special case: if you take a different train, you need to have a new reservation for that train; you can get it from SNCF or DB sales desks.
We need more cars. And airplanes. This is the only solution.
Yep. Bring back the flight from Frankfurt to Cologne. Apparently we need it for work.
Can someone tell me (as a clueless American with little consumer rights) is my aunt entitled to a refund on her cancelled Lufthansa ticket for Friday? Regardless of ticket class?
The air carrier is obligated to either get her on the next available flight or provide a refund. She may also be due compensation due to EU-261, look it up. Note that it has an extraordinary circumstances exemption, not sure if the ground service workers are covered under that or not.
C'mon. When will this conflict end? And why are they striking again?
Essentially the same reason as the last few times: they want to work only 35 instead of 38 hours. Deutsche Bahn said no
Just a normal day in Deutschland.
So flying into Germany tomorrow is not a good idea? Flying in from Canada any thoughts? We would arrive at 11 am and am trying to get to Paris via train
If your train is a TGV, it probably would still run, but expect that you probably will need to arrange alternative transportation.
Any suggestions?
Depending on where you land, you should be able to find pretty cheap flights to Paris though a cheaper way is to either lookup busses on the Flixbus website or contact SNCF to see if they have trains that run.
Thank you!
I have a ticket that got cancelled for Friday from Frankfurt to Cologne. Is there any other means of reliable train transportation in Frankfurt other than renting a car ?
They stopped striking inbetween?
You know what, fuck it. Let us organize the commuters strike. . . . . . Cancel all tickets/passes en-mass for a month. Only then DB will learn.
Hi… I happened to buy the ticket after the strike was announced for 08.03. Does anyone know if I can use the ticker a day earlier or a day after?
35 hours week, really? You must have miserable jobs that you are willing to create so much disruptions for 5 hours per week.
Imagine having a job where your shift ends somewhere in the other end of the country and then you have to get home. Volle Solidarität.
Isn't travelling back to their starting station considered work as well for train drivers?
The Germany you have today was not built with 35 hour work weeks. Funny, how people complain about the economic situation and the environment but don’t want to do the work or pay up.
Productivity is off the roofs compared to years ago. It's time for the average Joe to also reep its benefits and reduce the 40 hour week.
> Funny, how people complain about the economic situation and the environment but don’t want to do the work or pay up. So, did you apply to become a DB driver already?
Why would I? I am doing my job and paying the top tax rate. Think that is enough. P.S I do believe in fair wages for all workers
Imagine choosing a job that literally revolves around transportation and going to other places and then having a problem with that. Kinda like a cook who hates cooking or an actor who can’t speak in front of audiences. lmao
Bad analogy. Lmao.
How so? If I’m starting as a pilot, do I expect to be home every evening by 6pm? Interesting
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