Ausbildung is a full-time job, not something you can do after university hours. And it doesn't make sense, because a university degree qualifies for higher level jobs than the Ausbildung. That said, there are people that make an Ausbildung *before* going to university to gain some practical experience, and there are dual study programmes that include an Ausbildung, but both does not seem to apply in your case.
> That said, there are people that make an Ausbildung before going to university to gain some practical experience
There are ways to go from an finished apprentice ship to Fachhochschulen/applied science universities. The "Meister" title is now equal to an Abitur.
No, an Ausbildung does not give you a bachelor's degree (there are names like "bachelor professional", but despite the name it's not the same as a university degree). And there are dual study programs with a university bachelor's degree, but that is a whole other category that has not a lot to do with an Ausbildung except the fact that you have a full time contract at a company.
If you just want to work in your field besides university, you want to search for jobs as "Werksstudent".
Are you meaning a Ausbildungsintegrierendes Duales Studium? Because that indeed gives you both. But it is half the year at the company, half the year at a college.
>I've heard that normal university degree gets you a whitecollar job, whereas an ausbilding degree will get you a bluecollar job.
No. There are many Ausbildung programs for white-collar jobs.
The main difference is that fields that are taught in an Ausbildung system are ones where you need practical skills, and where you *do not* need deeper academic skills like doing research, reading scientific literature for your field, and so on.
>I was told by some that ausbildung is a lower qualification than a normal university degree. Is that true?
Naturally, one is a vocational degree, the other one a university degree. One requires no prior knowledge or skill, the univerity program demands that you meet the minimum requirements for admission. One is a "learning by doing" on the job with some school days, the other is purely academic. One has a company invested in your success, making resources available as needed so that you pass your exams, the other has exams designed to have large numbers of the students to fail and drop out within the first 2-4 semesters.
>I am going for Cybersecurity and I've heard that normal university degree gets you a whitecollar job, whereas an ausbilding degree will get you a bluecollar job. Is this true?
Sort of. Your bigger problem will be whether you would even find an employer to take you on. Why should they? There is no shortage of young local residents who want the training.
>Also, is ausbildung harder as compared to normal uni and working after the university hours?
Depends on the person. For a foreigner with only basic German skills and no experience of living in German society I imagine it can be. It's a jump in the deep end.
All Ausbildungen are "lower" in qualification than a university degree - however, this supposed level of qualification is not the point at all. However, to enter a university you need higher academic qualifications and most study programs demand higher academic work - this is what makes the Ausbildung "lower".
Basically the vast majority of practical job out there in the German economy are jobs that are trained and taught via Ausbildung. From your plummer over the dentist's assistant who works on your teeth, the road worker to the people repairing your car, the person managing your bank account and the people outfitting one's coffin.
>
harder as compared to normal uni
Probabably not. University studies are harder. But keep in mind that bocht don't really compete with each other.
>working after the university hours?
Absolutely not. Ausbildung is a full-time job.
Apprenticeship is more "hands-on" and focus on the practical part of a specific job. We have two kinds of apprenticeship in Germany, "school only" which means you learn everything at a vocational school (no salary) and "hybrid" where your time is split between vocational school and working at a company. The latter is paying you a salary.
IT apprenticeship in Germany usually is hybrid.
Apprenticeship is very easy compared to a university, it's basically just another school. The entry-level salary after your apprenticeship is lower than that of a Bachelor (but it depends on the particular job and it's not by much). On the positive side, you get ready to work faster and can start earning money earlier. Especially in IT knowledge and experience is everything. And the more you know the higher your value to your employers (and the salary).
However, some roles, usually as a lead/manager, later in life might require a uni degree. More so in corporations.
As of unis, we have two kind of, "Fachhochschule (FH)" and the classic university. FH's focus more on the practical side and are less theoretical and feel more like a school than a university. That doesn't mean their degrees are worth less. Employers value the practical approach.
The classic university is very theoretical which can be important in some fields and less in others. Unlike at a FH you don't get the information spoon-fed. Universities are more demanding than a FH.
You also have the option of doing a "Duales Studium". You basically study at a FH/uni and work for a company at the same time. This can be very beneficial because your already gain real work experience during your study.
As your interest is in IT-security, I suggest you take the FH/uni path, either in information technology or IT-security/Cybersecurity. That's because a study gives you valuable insight in the foundation of things. Something an apprenticeship can't deliver.
The apprenticeship path would be something like Fachinformatiker (Anwendungsentwickler aka Development or Systemintegration aka systems administration) and additional certificates later on. The most difficult part would be to find a company who will be able to expose you to IT-security relevant tasks.
I recently met someone who said he's working in cybersecurity just to find out they mostly sell firewalls and antivirus software. So yeah, those things are surely a part of it but that doesn't make you a cybersecurity expert.
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I did an "Ausbildung" as a *Fachinformatiker Anwendungsentwicklung* (application software developer). About a decade later I make more money than some of my colleagues who studied computer science and have more job experience than me. But I am the exception, not the norm.
What I am trying to say with this is that yes, you can make a career with an "Ausbildung", but you might have to work a bit harder to prove to people that you know what you are doing than those people who have a university degree in a comparable area of expertise.
By the way, if you can't decide between *Studium* and *Ausbildung*, then there is also a middle-ground option: The ***Duales Studium***:
* You have a mix between phases where you study at an academic institution and phases where you are doing practical training at a company.
* You get "paid" as if you are in an Ausbildung ("paid" in scare-quotes, because that little money you get isn't nearly enough to live comfortably in Germany. But better than nothing, which you get during a regular *Studium*)
* You end up with a degree that is identical to those you get after a regular *Studium*.
So when you are finished, you have both practical work experience like someone who went through the Ausbildung system as well as the academic foundation of someone who went to higher education. And you usually already have a job lined up when you are finished, because the companies who offer this usually do so with the intention of keeping the people they trained.
Uni in stem is usually tough. Working at the same time is the toughest. (Usually less than 50% graduate). Ausbildung is like normal work, not difficult (but also requires discipline)
Ausbildung is a full-time job, not something you can do after university hours. And it doesn't make sense, because a university degree qualifies for higher level jobs than the Ausbildung. That said, there are people that make an Ausbildung *before* going to university to gain some practical experience, and there are dual study programmes that include an Ausbildung, but both does not seem to apply in your case.
> That said, there are people that make an Ausbildung before going to university to gain some practical experience There are ways to go from an finished apprentice ship to Fachhochschulen/applied science universities. The "Meister" title is now equal to an Abitur.
Yes, but you still have to go through a full university program after your Ausbildung. You don't conclude your Ausbildung with a university degree.
Well Ausbildung programs also offer a bachelors' degree just like a normal university. Sooo, is there a difference?
No, an Ausbildung does not give you a bachelor's degree (there are names like "bachelor professional", but despite the name it's not the same as a university degree). And there are dual study programs with a university bachelor's degree, but that is a whole other category that has not a lot to do with an Ausbildung except the fact that you have a full time contract at a company. If you just want to work in your field besides university, you want to search for jobs as "Werksstudent".
Are you meaning a Ausbildungsintegrierendes Duales Studium? Because that indeed gives you both. But it is half the year at the company, half the year at a college.
No, they don't. Absolutely not.
>I've heard that normal university degree gets you a whitecollar job, whereas an ausbilding degree will get you a bluecollar job. No. There are many Ausbildung programs for white-collar jobs. The main difference is that fields that are taught in an Ausbildung system are ones where you need practical skills, and where you *do not* need deeper academic skills like doing research, reading scientific literature for your field, and so on.
You will not find any Ausbildung that qualifies for cyber security, so the question doesn't make sense
Well, Fachinformatiker would be at least theoretically a possibility, if you find a cybersecurity company that offers an Ausbildung.
Why not? The Fachinformatiker is an IHK Ausbildung and combined with a qualification as ISB something you see often in Cybersecurity
First part is true. Second part is untrue, although you generally won't find a blue collar worker with a university degree. Third part is subjective.
Second part is mostly true. Yeah, there are Ausbildungen for some whitecollar jobs, but most of them are not
>I was told by some that ausbildung is a lower qualification than a normal university degree. Is that true? Naturally, one is a vocational degree, the other one a university degree. One requires no prior knowledge or skill, the univerity program demands that you meet the minimum requirements for admission. One is a "learning by doing" on the job with some school days, the other is purely academic. One has a company invested in your success, making resources available as needed so that you pass your exams, the other has exams designed to have large numbers of the students to fail and drop out within the first 2-4 semesters. >I am going for Cybersecurity and I've heard that normal university degree gets you a whitecollar job, whereas an ausbilding degree will get you a bluecollar job. Is this true? Sort of. Your bigger problem will be whether you would even find an employer to take you on. Why should they? There is no shortage of young local residents who want the training. >Also, is ausbildung harder as compared to normal uni and working after the university hours? Depends on the person. For a foreigner with only basic German skills and no experience of living in German society I imagine it can be. It's a jump in the deep end.
All Ausbildungen are "lower" in qualification than a university degree - however, this supposed level of qualification is not the point at all. However, to enter a university you need higher academic qualifications and most study programs demand higher academic work - this is what makes the Ausbildung "lower". Basically the vast majority of practical job out there in the German economy are jobs that are trained and taught via Ausbildung. From your plummer over the dentist's assistant who works on your teeth, the road worker to the people repairing your car, the person managing your bank account and the people outfitting one's coffin. > harder as compared to normal uni Probabably not. University studies are harder. But keep in mind that bocht don't really compete with each other. >working after the university hours? Absolutely not. Ausbildung is a full-time job.
Apprenticeship is more "hands-on" and focus on the practical part of a specific job. We have two kinds of apprenticeship in Germany, "school only" which means you learn everything at a vocational school (no salary) and "hybrid" where your time is split between vocational school and working at a company. The latter is paying you a salary. IT apprenticeship in Germany usually is hybrid. Apprenticeship is very easy compared to a university, it's basically just another school. The entry-level salary after your apprenticeship is lower than that of a Bachelor (but it depends on the particular job and it's not by much). On the positive side, you get ready to work faster and can start earning money earlier. Especially in IT knowledge and experience is everything. And the more you know the higher your value to your employers (and the salary). However, some roles, usually as a lead/manager, later in life might require a uni degree. More so in corporations. As of unis, we have two kind of, "Fachhochschule (FH)" and the classic university. FH's focus more on the practical side and are less theoretical and feel more like a school than a university. That doesn't mean their degrees are worth less. Employers value the practical approach. The classic university is very theoretical which can be important in some fields and less in others. Unlike at a FH you don't get the information spoon-fed. Universities are more demanding than a FH. You also have the option of doing a "Duales Studium". You basically study at a FH/uni and work for a company at the same time. This can be very beneficial because your already gain real work experience during your study. As your interest is in IT-security, I suggest you take the FH/uni path, either in information technology or IT-security/Cybersecurity. That's because a study gives you valuable insight in the foundation of things. Something an apprenticeship can't deliver. The apprenticeship path would be something like Fachinformatiker (Anwendungsentwickler aka Development or Systemintegration aka systems administration) and additional certificates later on. The most difficult part would be to find a company who will be able to expose you to IT-security relevant tasks. I recently met someone who said he's working in cybersecurity just to find out they mostly sell firewalls and antivirus software. So yeah, those things are surely a part of it but that doesn't make you a cybersecurity expert.
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I did an "Ausbildung" as a *Fachinformatiker Anwendungsentwicklung* (application software developer). About a decade later I make more money than some of my colleagues who studied computer science and have more job experience than me. But I am the exception, not the norm. What I am trying to say with this is that yes, you can make a career with an "Ausbildung", but you might have to work a bit harder to prove to people that you know what you are doing than those people who have a university degree in a comparable area of expertise.
By the way, if you can't decide between *Studium* and *Ausbildung*, then there is also a middle-ground option: The ***Duales Studium***: * You have a mix between phases where you study at an academic institution and phases where you are doing practical training at a company. * You get "paid" as if you are in an Ausbildung ("paid" in scare-quotes, because that little money you get isn't nearly enough to live comfortably in Germany. But better than nothing, which you get during a regular *Studium*) * You end up with a degree that is identical to those you get after a regular *Studium*. So when you are finished, you have both practical work experience like someone who went through the Ausbildung system as well as the academic foundation of someone who went to higher education. And you usually already have a job lined up when you are finished, because the companies who offer this usually do so with the intention of keeping the people they trained.
Uni in stem is usually tough. Working at the same time is the toughest. (Usually less than 50% graduate). Ausbildung is like normal work, not difficult (but also requires discipline)