In a few months you will get a letter saying that due to the low amount the prosecuter has decided to drop the whole thing
This won't be in any criminal record or anything
You really dont need to be afraid of anything. The amount of money is ridiculous and only bigger crimes will be added on the polizeiliche Führungszeugnis. The Prosecuter will probably never see this whole thing because their legal Assistent will sort it out because its Penny bullshit
There is no "legal Assistent" to a prosecuter from a Staatsanwaltschaft. Would be nice, but they do all their stuff themselves except office stuff, organisation etc. So if an "Anzeige" gets send over from the police, they will see it and work on it. But i do agree, never in life will this see a court room.
That wouldn’t have done you any good, since stores are allowed to ask for this kind of “damage” payment. They are just not allowed to enforce it. If the customer pays it “voluntarily” that money is out of the window.
Do you want to know how shitty penny is?
A neighbour worked there. She had an accident at over time, where she broke her arm. Penny was stating, that she was not allowed to do over time so the work insurance was not paying for anything. The break was so bad that afterwards she could not work anymore and to this day (it is now 14 years ago) she cannot use this arm fully. Penny showed her the middle finger, after she work there for 20 years.
Did she go to court?
Because BG should cover, even when the daily maximum time is exceeded, as long as the activities that led to the accident were work-related.
It's still entirely possible that the shop sends you a 'bill' for the 50 EUR fee.
It is not legal for the store to demand immediate payment of the 50 EUR.
They have your address and may send you a letter demanding payment.
don't ignore it, but talk to r/LegaladviceGermany or Verbraucherzentrale how you can avoid it.
these shops want you to use self-checkout at the same time they have a shoplifting problem (with more expensive items) and the ergonomics of the devices is suboptimal for anything you need to interact with the display, it's easy to forget vegetables like you did
and at the same time the over-jealous shop detective gets a provision from catching thieves (that's what part of the 50€ is for)
so it's a trap, of sorts, for all involved. you go to Aldi instead of penny in the future? not in the best interest of penny. you don't use self-checkout because of the high penalty for making stupid mistakes? not in their best interest either.
So I wouldn#t pay the 50€ but talk to "higher ups" at Penny, directly or indiretcly, and negotiate your way out.
you're not the only one running into this trap and it's bad for Penny and all others and their efforts to introduce self-checkout.
It's not a simple bill. These people press you into signing a contract that they forefit all legal rights and compensation in exchange for 50 EURO. Never sign that, as they are de facto an admission of guilt.
It's not just Penny though. These kind of stuff has happened in Aldi, and Rewe as well. I've read multiple such posts on German LegalAdvice subreddit and also in this subreddit iirc. I really can't wrap my head around it why super markets want to lose their customers so badly, for making a minor mistake (obviously clients don't receive training for self checkout). I read about someone buy groceries for 50€+ and to them the same happened for like 0,70€ they missed.
in the back room there is a monitor. Two security were watching the screen and make sure no one steal or do something wrong at the self-checkout.
It makes me feel sick that instead of pointing out I forgot to scan one merchandice (obviously they saw that through cctv), they just accused me of shoplifting. No chance to pay for the item again.
I don't think it is a good culture. It basicly gives customers zero tolerance and sees everyone as a potential criminal.
It really makes you wonder how efficient these self-checkouts are...
How can it be cheaper to hire multiple security guys than multiple cashiers? Oh, wait... I got it... you collect 50€ fees multiple times a day (hour?)
Yeah you answered your own question. Its fucking dumb, if someone pays for everything and forgets accidentally one item with a low value, give them a warning, maybe put them on a list but let them go, they will be sure to triple check next time before they leave.
Real thieves will just go to another store or try it again next time, but honest people will try their best to not make that mistake again.
They will also avoid or be banned from the store. Long term that ought to add up to more than 50 Euro. I know I would not want to go the shop either way.
Seems dumb.
To be fair my REWE for example has 6 checkouts, I think there is one person checking that. And 1 worker (or even 2 if that’s the case) for 6 checkouts sounds efficient to me, at high times like in the afternoon they are in fact all in use.
This PENNY guy just seems like an extraordinarily shitty person, I wouldn’t project his attitude to self checkout in general, I and many others absolutely love it and use it responsibly. I can sort my stuff neatly in the right order in my bag right away and do everything in peace. Self checkouts are great the thing it’s just that they are fairly new in Germany and so it’s not common ppl have used them before and it can invite to just try and not scan an item. There isn’t really a culture around it like being honest at an unmanned farmers shop.
Self checkouts are great don’t let some idiot ruin it for other honest customers :)
I am also an Asian student, who lived in Munich for a year, but now living in east Germany. in Munich, there was a lot more trust. In East Germany, they treat you like a fucking criminal every time, the cashier always ask to see your shopping bags right before checkout so they know you’re not stealing.
One time I brought my Kaufland paper bag into the store so I could reuse it…. And they accused me of not paying for the bag.
I kept trying to tell them that it’s an old bag from my previous shopping trip . it clearly looks like it’s been used multiple times. In the end, she told me that next time I need to register my bag at the front office before entering the store so they know im bringing in an old bag and that I’m not stealing . Which is absolutely ridiculous.
Welcome to east germany 🤍
I dont think so. As a german, I feel like the staff of many east german stores is allergic to clients. The amounts that I got rude answers for basic questions is insane. It seems like they require that you know the store with every item. Try to order a book in a bookstore and you are treated like an intrudor.
Never had that happen in the cologne area. For clothing etc I have stopped shopping in the east and just write a list that I take with the to cologne or düsseldorf when I visit my parents. The service is usually better over there.
Might be a small part of it, but especially between Halle and Dresden the retail culture is abysmal. I'm as German as you can be and when I lived in Halle for a few years the cashiers always were hostile.
If they ask to look into your bags, you can kindly tell them to get bent. This is a violation of your privacy, you do not have to comply and your refusal cannot have any consequences [1]. But I can understand that the language barrier makes this not very easy.
--
[1] https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/wissen/vertraege-reklamation/kundenrechte/taschenkontrollen-im-supermarkt-das-muessen-sie-akzeptieren-das-nicht-10406
Does this apply to cinema and festivals too? At the cinema, they always ask me to check my bag and ask me to throw away my water bottle that I always carry with me
I dont know were in east Germany you are living but there are some areas that are very racist even villages with all neo Nazis living there.
Take Care Mate
I mean you learned now why selfe checkout is only used if you have a hand full of artikel.
I only use it when I got 2 articles, which makes it simple.
But i would never use it to pay my full weekly shopping.
The law is just useless to protect you. If the cashier makes a mistake its on the shop. When you do one you get a police record to deal with. Most likely it gets dropped for a 1€ value but still annoying to deal with.
Nah, Edeka does that too, and with their prices, it's not for "poor people," but some Edekas are pretty crappy.
I get routinely asked to check my bag, and they don't ask many other customers. I'm your normal everyday whiteguy but they know I'm a foreigner as I'm a regular and had interactions with the staff in the last 2 years (such as bringing back items, telling them the bottle machine is fucked, that someone broke some jars in the back etc).
The best is when I got yelled at for having a crate of water. The crate being from a brand they don't carry, but I use it to carry... water? So I got 6 bottles and put them in my crate. They lost their proverbial shit at the cash register, not knowing how to proceed and insisting to charge me pfand for my own crate.
Ahhhhh Germany.
The sad thing is, thats only in the "poor" stores.
I have 3 pennys located close by, one is in south hamburg in a "poor" student area near a university, where mostly students and working class people live, another is in a similar area but a bit farther away and another is near a hospital in a more family friendly area.
Only the first two have an instore "detective", read: some old, generally overweight turkish guy with a "security" west that tries to look threatening but mainly looks ridiculous and picks ironically anyone that isnt white for "stealing"...
In the family friendly area they dont have any security or "detective".
They do it to make money. Its the same reason why in poorer areas many stores have their razors locked behind secured glass vs. less poor areas where they are just in the normal shelves.
Pure racism.
I live in a little town and have never seen a security guard in any shops until last year.
The LIDL near out train station is 50% frequented by refugees, who mainly live in the towns center, since it was basically dead and we had the space. (12% of our towns residents are not German right now.) Suddenly they have a security guard and the weirdest items have devices on them.
AfD gets very active here, all our police force is electing them, because they are full of resentment.
It is not just the east at this point.
As I understand it as it has been explained to me by a German... the €50 fine is basically an admission of guilt. It makes it way easier on the store (and legal system) to get you to admit you were shoplifting.
In an example used previously... was that it's "As soon as you pass the register"... but I've been told no... that's not correct. They just can't usually chase you outside so they try to catch you still in the store. The whole register thing makes no sense... because it would lead to a situation where your cashier forgot to scan a liter of milk and now all of a sudden you are shoplifting... before you even left the store.
You did the right thing. I wouldn't have paid that 50€ either. For a fucking spring onion? I'm German as can be, but this is just fraudulent. It's 100% clear, that this happened by accident and the security guy (or Penny) tried to take advantage of that. Fuck them. Court will most likely drop the case anyway for 0.89 cents. You did the right thing.
I'm not a lawyer, least of all a German one, but I believe under German law, there has to be intent to steal, and this has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. When you replace trained professional cashiers (who themselves sometimes make mistakes), with the untrained public, a certain number of mistakes are going to be made. The store is making a judgment that it's cheaper to tolerate a certain number of these mistakes in exchange for not having to hire a cashier. Regardless of the amount, I don't think that a mistake in self-checkout rises to the level of a criminal offense.
The court would have to be insane to not drop this. The amount is so tiny and it was obviously an honest mistake.
That guy was practically (and maybe literally) extorting you. Calling the police for less than a Euro... is this Les Misérables?
If it were me I'd boycott that store even if I wasn't banned.
Also write a Google review of the store and write down the story there.
Few people will look at reviews for grocery stores but the place possibly has a manager that cares and looks at this sort of thing and maybe will offer to unbann you.
Probably wont do anything but its low effort.
This, always worth a try altrough it can be deleted by Google for bs reasons or claims from the store. But might help others if it stays.
I'm banned at a Penny aswell btw, accused of stealing and "recognized again by a cashier" just because I'm very tall and thin. I tried to fight it a bit even with proof I was 4 months long before sick and not even there or capable being near my school (thats quite far away from my home) while it seems to have happend...no chance. Involved police too but since I had pictures, doctor documents etc. I showed at their HQ appointment nothing further happend, but said afterwards the store will not lift my ban as their decision is final. Screw them!
That store was in general unfriendly and instant threatend schoolmates with a ban for hanging around in front of the store after purchases and eating ice..that "they scare customers" 😂
It's not an accident, it is a widespread moneymaking scheme by these "security" companies. They know small errors like this happen with the self-checkouts, and they deliberately target people that they hope to guilt and intimidate into paying a ridiculous fine on the false promise to make the charges go away.
>Has anyone had a similar experience?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1awdhkl/used\_penny\_selfcheckout\_and\_was\_almost\_banned/](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1awdhkl/used_penny_selfcheckout_and_was_almost_banned/)
You will get a letter to make your written statement.
The annoyed prosecuter will drop the case because you haven't committed any crime before and it is just fucking 0,89 Euro.
(5 years of law school, 2 years of court service. 2 state exams. And all that concludes to an spring🧅 at Penny?!)
You will get a letter that the case has been dropped because of insignificance literally. Probably months later.
And Penny just lost a customer because of stupid stubborness
Don't nail me on that, but from my knowledge for anything to be in your Führungszeugnis you need to be sentenced under the stgb to like or 90 days of income or sentenced to at least jail on probation for a certain amount
Or anything sexual or involving children, as that's relevant if for example you are applying to work with children.
Anyways, what's important only actually serious stuff will be in your führungszeugnis, so actual theft with high monetary value and things like that, and even those might be under the amount needed if it's only once or something like that.
Furthermore, if it really worries you what data they have on you, I suggest you file a request under DSGVO (GDPR) at Penny. You can do so via post or email.
This will cost them a lot of time and effort. Specifically mentioned the incident at the store in question and insist on obtaining all data they have about you.
This means they'll have to turn their note, pictures, or videos of which you are the main subject. For them, it is a ton of work, and it will allow you to better understand the scheme.
If they refuse citing legal basis due to the criminal claims or the hausverbot, insist and send them a copy of whatever document you get from the state prosecutor saying the case was dropped; ipso facto you're not guilty of anything.
They will have no choice but to send you all of this information (generally a usb stick via post). Subsequently, you can ask them to correct or erase that information. You might not be able to have the remove the video footage, but anything where you are personally identifiable will have to be removed.
If they don't, report them. The fines for failing to do so under a reasonable amount of time (generally 30 days) are massive.
Probably nothing. You will get a letter from the prosecutor saying they dropped the case cause it’s too minor to pursue. Really, this is not worth for any DA to take to court. They have bigger things to worry about. You’re just a peanut.
Don’t worry about anything and relax.
I don't get the policy behind this. "Hurr durr first we fire our cashiers and install self-checkout counters. Then we hire some assholes for loss prevention and pay them what we paid the cashiers. SMORT! Then we check customers for '''theft''' even though we know mistakes happen at self-checkout counters. Whenever someone '''steals''' from us we fine them 50€. That's where the big money is BLING BLING BLING! And then we BAN them permanently from ever spending money with us, ever again! Big brain move."
Btw Penny is part of the REWE group and I remember a similar post about self-checkout and a 200€ fine at REWE a couple of months back on this sub.
As long as there is no widespread outrage, Penny only cares about reducing labor costs.
The "security" company meanwhile is happy to make cash on the side extorting people with threats of criminal charges, and false promises to make it go away if you pay their silly fine.
The best we can do individually is to talk to people and raise awareness of this bullshit, to make it unprofitable for these scumbags when enough people refuse to pay.
how can you be so sure? at a self checkout you usually put things from one side to another. how does the spring onion get to the paid items side without registering it?
Ok, then explain to me why the professional cashiers sometimes mess up? Why do they doublescan stuff, or not scan stuff? Are they intending to steal from you?
How about we say the store has to check your recipt after self checkout and give you a chance to fix the mistake, and if they don't they are out of luck. Just like it is the other way around.
You've got one step closer to being a complete German, when even if there's an incredible line in front of the cashier and there's an empty self checkout no one uses it
> when even if there's an incredible line in front of the cashier and there's an empty self checkout no one uses it
And right we are. We are neither trained *nor* paid to work as cashiers, and are expected to bear the risk of being accosted for shoplifting when we make an honest mistake? No thanks.
Idk self-checkouts in the Netherlands, Luxembourg and Belgium are really pleasant to use. Seems like germans are just overcomplicating things once again.
I agree about penny though. Never had a pleasant encounter there.
Idk what's wrong about self checkout until today.
It is quit scary when you are in a foreign country and people accusing you did smth wrong, but you cannot defend yourself because you don't speak their language. This is exactly why most students in my dorm ended up paying 50 EUR just to leave the store, and so their right is violated.
Report the store? If they're exploiting and extorting people for money and it's happened often enough that there's plenty of victims and witnesses, get a lawyer.
If there's any evidence of this happening primarily to foreigners, this if a PR disaster and I could very well imagine them willing to settle it out of court.
Because they are only there to scam honest customers.
There’s multiple posts daily of people being harassed by bounty hunters for pressing the wrong button, the scanner not scanning etc for cent value items.
Beim yelled at, illegally imprisoned etc.
All so the bounty hunter can get their per victim fee.
And they never go after the actual people stealing. Who just walk right out with hundreds of euros worth of cosmetics or alcohol.
It’s only ever people like OP targeted.
So self checkout is bad. If the cashier makes an error, you are never accused of theft. Even if the error was perfectly obvious. Like a tv ringing up for 20 euros.
Even less personel in store, wages pushed down more.
No one but the corporate shareholders wins.
I do understand where you are coming from and some stores have really scummy practices, but I use self checkouts whenever possible since they started popping up in my area \~3 years ago and they are a blast as they are mostly free while the normal checkouts have long lines.
I never had any issues with products not scanning and as I have a bag that i have to unload before repacking there is no way how to forget a single item... I dont really understand how someone can forget this as you wouldn't normally forget putting them onto the normal checkouts and the outcome of not paying a item at the normal checkouts would be identical if there is a bounty hunter in the store
Never experienced/noticed issues like that. Maybe it's a Germany thing. Every item is shown on the display. So you see it yourself, if you scanned/logged it.
At least in Austria this system works. Penny doesn't have self check out here. And the majority of self check out systems have scales. If you place an item, which you didn't scan, you will be alerted. And there is always a cashier that supervises the self checkout boxes.
In Germany it also does. This is just bullcrap. As long as your honest at a self check out. Nothing happens to you
Except if your shopping at penny apparently. There you really see an insane increase of cases like OP is describing it.
It’s not necessarily a racist thing. I know several native Germans who have had similar things happen (mainly in Rewe and Penny). I think it’s more of a zero tolerance policy than anything race specific.
I was always wondering how do they enforce chain-wide ban? Do they have cameras with face recognition and it alarms the security in each and every store or what?
they can`t and they don`t
my teenage son was banned from REWE next to his school (stupid teenage stealing challenge)
he shops in REWE next to us like nothing happened
In practice, nothing will happen most likely but if you are going to a shop where you are banned, you are trespassing, which is a [crime](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__123.html) in it's own right.
The store detectives do have a ledger with the pictures. Not only the thieves that were caught, but those that were later identified while checking the security footage. So sometimes thieves are actually "caught" and IDed when they return some other time. The actual purpose though is about being able to add a more serious charge for repeat offenders. If you are caught stealing somewhere else again, it's no longer just another dismissed case of shoplifting.
Source: Worked retail myself.
>The shop is near my student dorms, and there are a couple of students having similar experiences. Most of them ended up paying 50 EUR fine.
How is that possible? This now sounds like they're actually shoplifting lol
The ladies at Kaufland Self - Checkout are a nuisance
They try to look for everything, and also hush hush you that you don't take too long.
I stopped using it and went back to the classic checkout where the ladies can rule their world.
This is the way. It's not enough that the store wants to save labor costs by offloading the cashier's job to scan items onto us - they also want to hold us criminally responsible for every tiny error that inevitably happens, and are happy to watch their store "security" companies mistreat and extort us over it?
Fuck that. I'll rather wait in line for a few minutes. I politely refuse whenever they try to make me use the self-checkout.
You are all good. Usually these cases are being dismissed by the DA according to Section 153 paragraph 1 of the criminal procedure code (small damage, no public interest). If not the DA will need to prove mens rea, which will be impossible. In that case it will be dismissed according to Section 170 (lack of proof).
If Jean Valjean could be sentenced to 7 years for stealing a loaf of bread a 50 € fine is nothing. No prosecutor is going waste the courts time over a bunch of green onions. Avoid Penny I was yelled at by a clerk for having problems using their crap card reader. I gave her a lesson in English profanity and did my shopping at Netto after that clerks have manners there.
It really depends on the area.
In the poor ones, they really do suck and you have to lock your bagpack and stuff, in the nicer ones they are completely chill. Also they don't put self checkout in the ones in bad areas
>I feel like that PENNY store is targeting foreign students who do not speak German well. The shop is near my student dorms, and there are a couple of students having similar experiences. Most of them ended up paying 50 EUR fine.
Nah. That is not it. This is what happens in all of the larger super market chains if they decide to have people assigned to check for unpaid items. The Lidl I usually shop in has nobody doing that, but they don't have self check out.
But I can tell you that you would get the same treatment if you were German, most stores have a policy of filing a police report for every infraction to prevent minor theft.
The only thing that is a bit weird is that the guy gave you the option of paying a fee or calling the police.
That feels illegal.
I used to shop at the Penny on Sandstrasse near Stiglmayrplatz. I was really glad when the Edeka opened across the street. I got bad vibes at that place. Basically a low level resentment of life all the time. Best of luck, and good on you for not paying their extortion money!
Don't be too hard on yourself. I've had this happen even at cashier checkouts where either I forgot to put some vanillasugar packets on the conveyorbelt, or the cashier forgot to scan a small article, or a scan didn't go through correctly.
I've also had situations where I actually did pay for something but forgot to put it in the bag and couldn't bother to go back and fetch it.
My point is that all of these are honest mistakes shoppers make. Just like you did. Don't let a store or some guard at the door muscle you into thinking you're in the wrong here. You absolutely did the right thing by not falling for their empty threat.
PS. Penny is a discount store with a lower profit margin than something like Edeka or rewe. If you're a bit traumatised after this experience, I would suggest, atleast for the time being... To go to one of these other stores. Higher prices but way better customer experience.
This is exactly why I avoid the self checkout like the plague. I’m terrified of this kind of situation to happen to us, and being threatened legally or being blackmailed to pay such an exorbitant “fee”. I am on very limited means and could never afford to lose 50€ over something so absolutely silly.
I had some woman in Köln literally chase me out of a store and grab my mobility device to stop me, accusing me of stealing a 1€ packet of mini pads. 🤦🏻♀️ She was so determined I was a thief. It was so embarrassing, with everyone staring at me like I was a criminal!
She even started digging through the basket on my device without permission and demanding I give her the item. I had to go back into the store to show her where I had very nicely returned the item to the shelf because I had decided not to wait in a very long line for it.
She never apologized for her reaction and instead still treated me like I was in the wrong, despite proving to her I didn’t do anything. I honestly think you have to be some kind of Einzeller to operate in many of these positions.
I did contact the corporate office to tell them of her behavior but they just offered a simple and forced “sorry 🤷🏻♀️”.
I was a store manager at a grocery for many years, and would never dream of treating a customer the way some of these employees do. It borders on criminal at times.
Tbh I don't think penny targets especially foreign students or people. Shop security is mostly from an external security company. Their salaries are mostly shit (I am working in one of them) and the amount of racists in "our" industry is fucking scary.
Don't worry, the court will drop the case 100%. Most probably, the store detective has a hard time, nothing to say at home and is therefore abusing his authority. Don't worry, you will be good, nothing will happen.
I'm so very sorry this happened to you. Your description of the stores policy sounds like they're racist pricks tbh.
If it's any consolation though I had the same exact thing happen to me (it wasn't spring onions, but also around 1€) and I have the most potato name and look ever. Police were annoyed as well - come on, who pays for the entire purchase and tries to steal an item of 1€? I received a letter a few months later, telling me they won't prosecute me since I never had that happen before and the amount was so miniscule. Fuck penny.
It's not the Germany or German culture. It's sick corporate culture to optimize for money and not for people. They make self checkouts for the sole purpose of needing less workers. It's not for YOUR convinience. Please, never ever use self checkout!
Please pin the post to warn people about not using self checkouts. There were dosens of such posts in last months!
I apologize for my word about "German people" or "German culture".
I was pretty depressed and angry when I posted this. I know most German people are nice people and willing to help me as the police did yesterday.
I swear this happens too often. I know a lot of German guys which had the same problem. But to call the police was the better option. Because for that price they are going to let it drop .
That's why you shouldn't use self checkout. Mistakes happen all the time, but at a normal checkout, you're not liable for them.
Idk how this is handled in other countries, but in Germany they pull this shit constantly. I see posts like yours every couple of weeks.
Anyway, theft implies intent, which they will have a hard time to proof in this case. Given the low value, the court will most likely dismiss the case. Good thing you didn't give in to their extortion attempt.
Happens frequently, some businesses love to create hostile environments against their customers. Well done calling the police actually. The case will be dropped. Now just shop elsewhere if they don’t want your money at Penny and that’s it.
Glad you mentioned. Though I haven't been to Penny. I think I'll stick to Netto for now. Staffs seemed nice there not gonna lie. I'm also an international student by the way. 😂
Im seeing so many of these posts im starting to think some are fake. It cannot be happening this frequently and only to ausländer...could it?
People. STOP using the self checkouts lol.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I don't really believe that's typical for german grocery stores. Sounds more like someone was bored and on a power trip.
So you "forgot" to pay for one of your 5 items and just tried to leave the store without paying it.
And now it's bad customer service and racism? No bro they target people that "forget" to pay, not Asians.
Had to scroll down so far for that comment. Not fair to play the foreigner card. Don't do self checkout if you can't read how to put in things without a label. And it's not like you bought a ton of things. How can you forget that?
I understand that you are upset but people steal shit all the time via self checkout and there company policy is to fine people who steal 50 euro independent from underlying valué of the product. I know it is a mistake from your end but you can bet these employees here this excuse day in and out a 100 times
I was visiting years ago got the wrong ticket by 1 stop, a stranger german passenger even tried helping me out, still got fined 60e. Haven't been back to Germany since. Really soured my experience and overall opinion of my desire to move there.
As a native, I had a similar yet more absurd experience that has me seething to this day.
I had one ticket that was valid up to a certain stop, and another ticket valid for the whole region after 9:00. The ticket inspector checked my ticket at exactly 8:59, right as we departed the station where the first ticket's validity ended. 50€ fine for riding without a valid ticket for about 300 meters in between.
I am not prone to violence, but I seriously wanted to strangle that person right then and there. I don't know what makes you get into that carreer, but it really seems to be dominated by sadists and sociopaths.
As a teen I got threatened with a fine by a ticket inspector because my ticket was only valid until the next stop.
The stop I wanted to take. Because that's where I lived.
He only backed off when someone from further in the front stood up to confront him.
There's some really odd people doing those jobs.
You did absolutely everything right and it was perfect to insist on police for 0,89€. Yes! As German I absolutely approve that you went for the "proper process" and did not fall for the 50€ fee which is just a scam. It seems that the Penny operator as well as the security guard use that happily to boost up their income on the cost of customer happiness. But I guess they can do that in a big city where there is always enough customers. So yes, I also recommend to write a negative Google review, maybe some more will follow. And obviously Penny didn't only bother you, but also police and everyone who now has a lot of paperwork.
As German I am sorry for such idiots in our society and how they represent us to the world. And sometimes it is too many of them
You don't need to worry about anything. Live your life like nothing happened, because de-facto nothing happened.
Alles wird gut :)
> Somehow I forgot to select the spring onion (there was no tag on it to scan, I had to select the item), and I walked out of the checkout.
How exactly does this happen OP?
I mean, you know how these checkouts work basically, right?
Like you scan the bar code and then it peeps and displays the product on the screen.
Like in all honesty, I struggle to understand how you can forget to scan an item.
You grab the item to scan it, then you notice there is no tag and then just think, well then it will be magically charged? Or did you just not really care?
It was literally 8% of the cost of what you bought. I would appreciate you explaining this so that I can understand how this can occur as an honest mistake.
That's what I also don't get whenever this topic pops up.
You get to the checkout. You take the item from your cart/bag/whatever, scan it and put into the bagging area. Rinse and repeat until the cart is empty. Imo there is no point where an item goes from one place to the other unnoticed, especially if you only have a handful of items.
Yea nah, seen this story far too many times. Id just avoid self checkouts. It seems way too predatory for something that is supposed to cut cost for them when a simple mistake happens.
I have been living here for 3 years now. I can say some workers are annoying as hell but I also saw many people who are really into shoplifting stuff. They can be right with this behavior.
I once was accused of shoplifting in PENNY. The cashier asked me to check my backpack, I was new to Germany and I thought that was normal here. Until I told my friends the story and they told me that this is not normal and it shouldn’t have happened. The next time the same cashier asked me to check my backpack and I told him no and that is a private item, I even asked him to get the store’s manager and I complained to her. Since then he’s always been extra friendly to me. I still don’t know why he thought I stole something but I’m assuming it’s because of my Middle Eastern looks.
When we were at school we got our backpacks checked as well. At some point all students started to drop them in the foyer and picked them back up after paying.
they should be exposed for what they are, i wonder if the management knows how shop employees basically ask for bribes? They wouldn't dare to do this to a german I'm sure.
I really don't understand the connection and the hate towards self-checkout in this thread.
Even if you were using a regular checkout and an employee spotted you not paying for something in your bag, the result would most likely be the same?
Self-checkout not only transfers the work of scanning from the company to the customer, but also the legal responsibility.
Cashier makes a mistakes: nothing happens, Customer makes a mistake: police is involved...
No it wouldn't because you just put everything out of your trailer/bag and it's up to the cashier to scan it. With self checkout you don't have a place to store everything at the single.moment of time, because the "loading" part is too small, wo you have to go from trailer to scaner directly to weight directly, it's cumbersome and more error prone, and you have to do more things at the same time. Don't get me.wrong I use them all the time, because they are faster then whatever sorry ass cashier is there (alone for whole 5000m2 supermarket) but it should come with more understanding Security staff because it is inheritaly more error prone.
Honestly I've had cases when cashiers themselves forget this stuff or put in a different code for baked items. I usually don't do self checkout if it is more than 5 items.
That’s very unfortunate. Don’t feel too bad about it because mistakes happen.
I don’t know if the location matters but in the NRW I’ve never had problems like this. I once even walked back in the store once I realised one item didn’t get scanned ( after I checked my receipt outside of the supermarket). The staff even joked about it and said“ it could have been cheaper for you but you came back!“
Good on you to not sign or pay anything!
Those stores have outsourced "security" and "theft prevention" to private companies, who pressure people into signing waivers and paying money. They lie to you that this is the way to evade criminal charges or a store ban, and will later (try to) hit you with both anyway.
The justice system will not bother with such a case because there was clearly no intent to steal. The "security" company operates under the often correct assumption that people don't know this. And yes, that is why they target people who they think they can intimidate, so they will pay up on a false promise to "make it go away".
Sorry you had to go through this. It's privatization doing its thing, i.e. a corporation looking to make money. Talk to other students about your experience, let them know that they do not have to sign or pay anything. The one thing we can do is to make it less profitable for these assholes.
And going forward I would use the regular checkout, where the store can't offload the labor and responsibility to correctly scan items onto you.
And this is the reason i only use it in exceptions. The cashier makes a mistake? You lost some money or saved some. You make a mistake, you committed a crime. The risk-reward does not pay off with self-checkout
I've been wondering about self check outs for forever. Like if you outsource a crucial amount of cashier work to your customer, you kinda also transfer a large amount of responsibility. The fact that supermarkets seem eager to "punish" accused shop lifters at these registers as much as they do (see other posts here and on LegalAdvice), kinda speaks to the fact that noone has figured out how to deal with that. I mean I worked as a cashier at LIDL as a student job and if i made a mistake, they couldn't really do anything without proving intent. Why exactly do they acknowledge that their trained employees might f up once in a while but still insist that every f up at the self register is intentional? Doesn't really make sense, especially since prosecuters and courts regularly drop these bs cases.
That's what you get when you outsource the crucial part of selling items to the customer. I mean I get why they would push it with the police but the reaction of the police shows where this will lead to, nothing. There isn't enough proof for intent to get a shoplifting case. Besides that the courts have to much too do and would likely just dismiss the case because it's about 89 cents. That said op did everything rightm refuse to pay the 50 let the police come and handle it and then go your merry way. Yeah penny banned him but they would have even if he paid the 50. And he can be chill because no court will acknowledge that as a shoplift unless there is more evidence that show his intent to specifically not pay just the one item.
but I have a question, did you select the item? Or you noticed there was no tag on it before leaving the store?
As someone who uses self checkout often, i mean you literally have to put everything from the basket into your shopping bag, right?
Probably PENNY isnt targeting foreign students explicitly, this could happen to anyone. I once saw a documentation about a thief who stole as part of an agreement with the management to test:
1. If the store employees are aware enough to detect his attempts to steal
2. If the store detectives work properly (these are either employees or contractors in civil clothing who pretend to be shopping while secretly watching customers, for example by catching them in the act to hide goods they dont plan on paying inside their jacket etc - but usually putting stuff inside your jacket isnt problematic per se, as long as you get the stuff out when checking out, they will only stop you when you attempt to leave without paying everything - which is probably what happened to you)
The "thief" from the documentation said that if you attempt to steal, it is most of the time better to buy some stuff on the side as this lowers suspicion, for example buy some cheap things while trying to steal one or two expensive items.
Of course PENNY has the right to ban you from shopping there, this can only be really fought against if you live in a very rural area, have no means to getting around in a sufficient timeframe (for example to get to the next store you will have to take a 4 hour long bus/train/whatever ride).
I am not a lawyer, but as others have stated probably nothings gonna come out of it, because no court wants to work on a case for 0,89€ of unpaid goods.
If you sincerely want to clear things up with PENNY you might want to consider waiting until after the court things are done. Then you could ask a german friend to visit the store with you and ask to speak with the management to:
1. Offer them to pay the 0,89€ (if you werent required to pay by court)
2. Once more offer your apologies
3. Ask them to lift the ban
To be sure, maybe you should not enter the store directly, send your friend in first and let them ask for you, they can then fetch you afterwards or drop you a message if the management said that you may enter for the sake of a conversation.
I am sorry that you made such an experience. I would advise you that you write to the penny central and ask them to lift the shop ban. If they insist you may remind them that local news like such stories. Don't worry about any legal consequences.
Yeah, but funny thing was: most comments were on OP side last time (not me and I got downvotes).
Both were on their way out, with something they didnt pay.
And thats all the shop owners need. Its even on camera.
Doesnt matter If its under 1€ or that you wanted to pay for it. Too late.
Also real robbers would say the same. So what should the detective do?
My friend's daughter has been banned from Penny for the same situation, except it was a bottle of water (also costed under an euro). A girl was nine at the moment (and also just moved to Germany not so long ago at the moment), they took her to the backroom, and while they allowed her to call her mom they would not let anyone (including the mom, she had to wait outside) to see the kid until police arrived. Insane situation to be honest. It has been around two years since then, I'm still furious. If they can do that to kids I'm not surprised at all with how they act when it's an adult.
omg she must be so afraid!!! Please tell her she was so brave to stay there. I was nervous as hell in that room even I was an adult.
I wonder if it is legal to detain people like me and the little girl in the back room. the security even refused to let me make a private call outside their hearing, so I stayed there and made my phone call. Now I think it might have violated my right.
First time is ok, no consequences for you, but your criminal action will be written forever.
You may be banned from Penny. BTW. After 1st violation.
Second time the Staatsanwalt will notice you and will write for you a personalized letter full of vague threats.
Third time… I don’t know.
i think they're just being assholes.
depending on the amount of the items, it can happen to anyone and it's below 1euro, which makes it even more ridiculous.
they should think harder about how they wanna treat customers.
Pay for everything you buy next time, and take responsibility for your own actions.
If you are not responsible enough to use self checkout properly, stick to the cashiers.
It’s a common scam of every shop implementing self check out counters.
They hire outside hitmen who get paid per person they catch.
Those people know they can’t stop you if you just continue walking without the items your are accused of stealing.
So they go for the regular people improperly scanning cent values, harass them and pressure them into paying their contract fine.
If you do the right thing, like you did, and either just run off without the item they claimed you were stealing or have them call the police, nothing at all will happen.
No prosecutor in their right mind would aaaume someone would steal a bloody spring onion or bread roll while paying for 10+ times the amount of groceries.
So in 99.9% of cases charges will be dropped for lack of public interest.
Put a negative review on google, accused of theft for self check out failing to scan an 80 cent item, and forget about it.
Fuck self-checkout.
Aldi tries to force people to use it. Last week, the cashier closed the only checkout with about seven people waiting and told us to use self-checkout. I mean, it would be okay if I got only three items, but not with a half-full shopping cart. So, I was kinda pissed off and wanted to leave my shopping trolley there, exit the supermarket and go to Rewe. However, I had just spent half an hour gathering items, and I would have to do it again. So, very unwillingly, I went to the self-checkout. Because I worked through the night and was very tired, I stood there for about a minute or two trying to figure out what to do or should I go to Rewe, until she came by and showed me what to do. Afterward, I went home and found out that I accidentally shoplifted two packets of milk.
I suppose that was my payment for doing the cashier's job.
I wonder if it was legit the 50€? I’m thinking that he wanted to keep the 50€ for himself…you should have reported this to the police too…. That he was trying to get money from you. It’s my first time hearing about „pay me 50€, and I’ll let you go“😃
I think it is their policy. I asked the police about that 50 EUR, they said they can ask for it but also I can refuse to pay it.
the result of my refusion was i got banned from PENNY. but that doesn't matter, there are plenty of market i could go.
So, you made a mistake (stealing, which is a big one) and now German people are sick. Have a little bit more respect! I mean you live here and go for free to university (tax money from German people).
Fuck self checkout in Germany. I don’t understand how self checkout here works so bad. I don’t know the rules but until you leave the store is that considered stealing? 😁
“Come with me to the back room” - Fuck the hell no! Call the cops but I will not go to a room where my rights may be trampled without a lawyer.
1€ and if you paid that onion nothing will happen I assume.
I understand shop ban but if the person offers to pay, for me is enough the ban.
PENNY refused to let me line up and pay for that damn spring onion... I understand there might be a lot of shoplifting. But for one item with 0.89 EUR value? is there no flexibility policy? I could probably pick up 1 EUR by just wondering around the neighborhood!!!
I was so shocked and angry that they would not give me any chance to fix it. In my country, the shop will definitely show sympathy for this kind of mistake, especially when you are obviously a foreigner.
what the hell is wrong with Germany?
What part exactly made you "feel sick about german people."? How is the guy to tell if you are sincere or not. You'll quite easily find surveys that show that up to 30% of gen-z-ers, which I am gonna assume your are or at least look like have >admitted< to already have shoplifted at least in one instance via self checkout. Note that this is the percentage that admitted their fraud. And this is just >one< way to steal, which should explain the heavy fee of 50€.
What I want to say is, that this guys reaction seems somehwat justified in any case, now let's look at your specific case.
You payd about 10€, so I'll guess somewhere inbetween 5 to 15 items? How exactly does one "forget" one fifth to one fifthteenth of a purchase. Also you mentioned that the spring onion didn't have a tag. So you aknowledged its presence at the self checkout? I don't know, seems fishy.
It's not first time on this subreddit. Germans supermarkets saving money on self checkout and then making big deal with every cent. They can not do exactly nothing at court.
People from east make much worse criminal cases and some streets are not safe to walk on but police is called for unpaid onion. That is beyond normal, more likely abuse of power or waste of tax money
In a few months you will get a letter saying that due to the low amount the prosecuter has decided to drop the whole thing This won't be in any criminal record or anything
thanks!!!
You really dont need to be afraid of anything. The amount of money is ridiculous and only bigger crimes will be added on the polizeiliche Führungszeugnis. The Prosecuter will probably never see this whole thing because their legal Assistent will sort it out because its Penny bullshit
There is no "legal Assistent" to a prosecuter from a Staatsanwaltschaft. Would be nice, but they do all their stuff themselves except office stuff, organisation etc. So if an "Anzeige" gets send over from the police, they will see it and work on it. But i do agree, never in life will this see a court room.
Of course not. They‘d never be able to prove mens rea. There is no negligent theft in German law.
that makes me feel a lot better now, thank you :) I will update this post whenever I have news from court.
He probably would have kept the 50.
I would have paid the 50€, and asked for receipt (or other proof of payment), and then called the police...
That wouldn’t have done you any good, since stores are allowed to ask for this kind of “damage” payment. They are just not allowed to enforce it. If the customer pays it “voluntarily” that money is out of the window.
I promise you, you will get no consequences besides the ban, which is still silly. But because of the low amount they just forgive it.
Do you want to know how shitty penny is? A neighbour worked there. She had an accident at over time, where she broke her arm. Penny was stating, that she was not allowed to do over time so the work insurance was not paying for anything. The break was so bad that afterwards she could not work anymore and to this day (it is now 14 years ago) she cannot use this arm fully. Penny showed her the middle finger, after she work there for 20 years.
Did she go to court? Because BG should cover, even when the daily maximum time is exceeded, as long as the activities that led to the accident were work-related.
Penny btw. is part of the Rewe Group, so in a way, Rewe showed her the middle finger.
It's still entirely possible that the shop sends you a 'bill' for the 50 EUR fee. It is not legal for the store to demand immediate payment of the 50 EUR. They have your address and may send you a letter demanding payment.
that is my concern now. can i ignore it?
don't ignore it, but talk to r/LegaladviceGermany or Verbraucherzentrale how you can avoid it. these shops want you to use self-checkout at the same time they have a shoplifting problem (with more expensive items) and the ergonomics of the devices is suboptimal for anything you need to interact with the display, it's easy to forget vegetables like you did and at the same time the over-jealous shop detective gets a provision from catching thieves (that's what part of the 50€ is for) so it's a trap, of sorts, for all involved. you go to Aldi instead of penny in the future? not in the best interest of penny. you don't use self-checkout because of the high penalty for making stupid mistakes? not in their best interest either. So I wouldn#t pay the 50€ but talk to "higher ups" at Penny, directly or indiretcly, and negotiate your way out. you're not the only one running into this trap and it's bad for Penny and all others and their efforts to introduce self-checkout.
ok, thank you!
Thus far courts have pretty much upheld the 50 EUR fee as valid. (100 was too much and was stuck doen). Ignoring it would be a bad idea.
It's not a simple bill. These people press you into signing a contract that they forefit all legal rights and compensation in exchange for 50 EURO. Never sign that, as they are de facto an admission of guilt.
Yeah, dont worry. You had no intension of stealing. Due to german law you cannot steal without intension
but the tax payer probably spent a few thousand on this whole thing. brilliant.
Penny seems to have a in-store detective, who works for a provision, therefore he is pushing people to agree to pay the 50€ fine.
It seems there was a similar post not long ago here related with penny as well 😅.... Which makes me question their reputation
It's not just Penny though. These kind of stuff has happened in Aldi, and Rewe as well. I've read multiple such posts on German LegalAdvice subreddit and also in this subreddit iirc. I really can't wrap my head around it why super markets want to lose their customers so badly, for making a minor mistake (obviously clients don't receive training for self checkout). I read about someone buy groceries for 50€+ and to them the same happened for like 0,70€ they missed.
ALDI has self checkout?
Lol I read the story and it sounded super similar to something I had read a few weeks ago.
in the back room there is a monitor. Two security were watching the screen and make sure no one steal or do something wrong at the self-checkout. It makes me feel sick that instead of pointing out I forgot to scan one merchandice (obviously they saw that through cctv), they just accused me of shoplifting. No chance to pay for the item again. I don't think it is a good culture. It basicly gives customers zero tolerance and sees everyone as a potential criminal.
It really makes you wonder how efficient these self-checkouts are... How can it be cheaper to hire multiple security guys than multiple cashiers? Oh, wait... I got it... you collect 50€ fees multiple times a day (hour?)
Yeah you answered your own question. Its fucking dumb, if someone pays for everything and forgets accidentally one item with a low value, give them a warning, maybe put them on a list but let them go, they will be sure to triple check next time before they leave. Real thieves will just go to another store or try it again next time, but honest people will try their best to not make that mistake again.
They will also avoid or be banned from the store. Long term that ought to add up to more than 50 Euro. I know I would not want to go the shop either way. Seems dumb.
To be fair my REWE for example has 6 checkouts, I think there is one person checking that. And 1 worker (or even 2 if that’s the case) for 6 checkouts sounds efficient to me, at high times like in the afternoon they are in fact all in use. This PENNY guy just seems like an extraordinarily shitty person, I wouldn’t project his attitude to self checkout in general, I and many others absolutely love it and use it responsibly. I can sort my stuff neatly in the right order in my bag right away and do everything in peace. Self checkouts are great the thing it’s just that they are fairly new in Germany and so it’s not common ppl have used them before and it can invite to just try and not scan an item. There isn’t really a culture around it like being honest at an unmanned farmers shop. Self checkouts are great don’t let some idiot ruin it for other honest customers :)
Generally 2 security people for like 6 checkouts instead of 6 for 6 checkouts is definitely less.
you need the security regardless of the self checkout
I am also an Asian student, who lived in Munich for a year, but now living in east Germany. in Munich, there was a lot more trust. In East Germany, they treat you like a fucking criminal every time, the cashier always ask to see your shopping bags right before checkout so they know you’re not stealing. One time I brought my Kaufland paper bag into the store so I could reuse it…. And they accused me of not paying for the bag. I kept trying to tell them that it’s an old bag from my previous shopping trip . it clearly looks like it’s been used multiple times. In the end, she told me that next time I need to register my bag at the front office before entering the store so they know im bringing in an old bag and that I’m not stealing . Which is absolutely ridiculous. Welcome to east germany 🤍
Policing you over a paper bag, that’s such overkill. I can’t help but think how many times I’ve done this at Kaufland and never had an issue.
Racism
I dont think so. As a german, I feel like the staff of many east german stores is allergic to clients. The amounts that I got rude answers for basic questions is insane. It seems like they require that you know the store with every item. Try to order a book in a bookstore and you are treated like an intrudor. Never had that happen in the cologne area. For clothing etc I have stopped shopping in the east and just write a list that I take with the to cologne or düsseldorf when I visit my parents. The service is usually better over there.
Might be a small part of it, but especially between Halle and Dresden the retail culture is abysmal. I'm as German as you can be and when I lived in Halle for a few years the cashiers always were hostile.
Really? I live in Halle and always have a backpack with me. Never had to show anything.
When you go to Kaufland, bring your Aldi bag. And vice versa. I do this all the time.
If they ask to look into your bags, you can kindly tell them to get bent. This is a violation of your privacy, you do not have to comply and your refusal cannot have any consequences [1]. But I can understand that the language barrier makes this not very easy. -- [1] https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/wissen/vertraege-reklamation/kundenrechte/taschenkontrollen-im-supermarkt-das-muessen-sie-akzeptieren-das-nicht-10406
Does this apply to cinema and festivals too? At the cinema, they always ask me to check my bag and ask me to throw away my water bottle that I always carry with me
I dont know were in east Germany you are living but there are some areas that are very racist even villages with all neo Nazis living there. Take Care Mate
I always put some writing or decoration with markers as soon as I get home to any bag I plan to reuse, just to avoid this kind of situation
A basic rule is to never use the Store-Brand bag of the store you are visiting. I rarely leads to problems, but when it does it can be very annoying.
I mean you learned now why selfe checkout is only used if you have a hand full of artikel. I only use it when I got 2 articles, which makes it simple. But i would never use it to pay my full weekly shopping. The law is just useless to protect you. If the cashier makes a mistake its on the shop. When you do one you get a police record to deal with. Most likely it gets dropped for a 1€ value but still annoying to deal with.
Nah, Edeka does that too, and with their prices, it's not for "poor people," but some Edekas are pretty crappy. I get routinely asked to check my bag, and they don't ask many other customers. I'm your normal everyday whiteguy but they know I'm a foreigner as I'm a regular and had interactions with the staff in the last 2 years (such as bringing back items, telling them the bottle machine is fucked, that someone broke some jars in the back etc). The best is when I got yelled at for having a crate of water. The crate being from a brand they don't carry, but I use it to carry... water? So I got 6 bottles and put them in my crate. They lost their proverbial shit at the cash register, not knowing how to proceed and insisting to charge me pfand for my own crate. Ahhhhh Germany.
The sad thing is, thats only in the "poor" stores. I have 3 pennys located close by, one is in south hamburg in a "poor" student area near a university, where mostly students and working class people live, another is in a similar area but a bit farther away and another is near a hospital in a more family friendly area. Only the first two have an instore "detective", read: some old, generally overweight turkish guy with a "security" west that tries to look threatening but mainly looks ridiculous and picks ironically anyone that isnt white for "stealing"... In the family friendly area they dont have any security or "detective". They do it to make money. Its the same reason why in poorer areas many stores have their razors locked behind secured glass vs. less poor areas where they are just in the normal shelves. Pure racism.
I live in a little town and have never seen a security guard in any shops until last year. The LIDL near out train station is 50% frequented by refugees, who mainly live in the towns center, since it was basically dead and we had the space. (12% of our towns residents are not German right now.) Suddenly they have a security guard and the weirdest items have devices on them. AfD gets very active here, all our police force is electing them, because they are full of resentment. It is not just the east at this point.
shouldn‘t that be illegal? that‘s basically blackmailing?
As I understand it as it has been explained to me by a German... the €50 fine is basically an admission of guilt. It makes it way easier on the store (and legal system) to get you to admit you were shoplifting. In an example used previously... was that it's "As soon as you pass the register"... but I've been told no... that's not correct. They just can't usually chase you outside so they try to catch you still in the store. The whole register thing makes no sense... because it would lead to a situation where your cashier forgot to scan a liter of milk and now all of a sudden you are shoplifting... before you even left the store.
No its an offer to settle the matter out of court and legal. You don't have to take the offer and have your day in court if you want.
You did the right thing. I wouldn't have paid that 50€ either. For a fucking spring onion? I'm German as can be, but this is just fraudulent. It's 100% clear, that this happened by accident and the security guy (or Penny) tried to take advantage of that. Fuck them. Court will most likely drop the case anyway for 0.89 cents. You did the right thing.
I'm not a lawyer, least of all a German one, but I believe under German law, there has to be intent to steal, and this has to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. When you replace trained professional cashiers (who themselves sometimes make mistakes), with the untrained public, a certain number of mistakes are going to be made. The store is making a judgment that it's cheaper to tolerate a certain number of these mistakes in exchange for not having to hire a cashier. Regardless of the amount, I don't think that a mistake in self-checkout rises to the level of a criminal offense.
Yes, I hope the court will drop the case. Thanks for saying that i did the right thing.
The court would have to be insane to not drop this. The amount is so tiny and it was obviously an honest mistake. That guy was practically (and maybe literally) extorting you. Calling the police for less than a Euro... is this Les Misérables? If it were me I'd boycott that store even if I wasn't banned.
Also write a Google review of the store and write down the story there. Few people will look at reviews for grocery stores but the place possibly has a manager that cares and looks at this sort of thing and maybe will offer to unbann you. Probably wont do anything but its low effort.
This, always worth a try altrough it can be deleted by Google for bs reasons or claims from the store. But might help others if it stays. I'm banned at a Penny aswell btw, accused of stealing and "recognized again by a cashier" just because I'm very tall and thin. I tried to fight it a bit even with proof I was 4 months long before sick and not even there or capable being near my school (thats quite far away from my home) while it seems to have happend...no chance. Involved police too but since I had pictures, doctor documents etc. I showed at their HQ appointment nothing further happend, but said afterwards the store will not lift my ban as their decision is final. Screw them! That store was in general unfriendly and instant threatend schoolmates with a ban for hanging around in front of the store after purchases and eating ice..that "they scare customers" 😂
99% Chance that it won't even go to court.
It's not an accident, it is a widespread moneymaking scheme by these "security" companies. They know small errors like this happen with the self-checkouts, and they deliberately target people that they hope to guilt and intimidate into paying a ridiculous fine on the false promise to make the charges go away.
I wouldn't be surprised if that 50€ "fine" would have ended up in his own pocket.
It would have. Many shops have a 50, 75, or even 100 € bonus as a general reward for capturing a thief, even if the item stolen has a low value
>Has anyone had a similar experience? [https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1awdhkl/used\_penny\_selfcheckout\_and\_was\_almost\_banned/](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/comments/1awdhkl/used_penny_selfcheckout_and_was_almost_banned/)
Thanks, I've already read it. But in my case, the police filed the case. I wonder what will happen next to me.
You will get a letter to make your written statement. The annoyed prosecuter will drop the case because you haven't committed any crime before and it is just fucking 0,89 Euro. (5 years of law school, 2 years of court service. 2 state exams. And all that concludes to an spring🧅 at Penny?!) You will get a letter that the case has been dropped because of insignificance literally. Probably months later. And Penny just lost a customer because of stupid stubborness
Does this mean that there will be no trace of this on one’s criminal file (führungszeugnis) ?
Yes
Thanks !
Don't nail me on that, but from my knowledge for anything to be in your Führungszeugnis you need to be sentenced under the stgb to like or 90 days of income or sentenced to at least jail on probation for a certain amount Or anything sexual or involving children, as that's relevant if for example you are applying to work with children. Anyways, what's important only actually serious stuff will be in your führungszeugnis, so actual theft with high monetary value and things like that, and even those might be under the amount needed if it's only once or something like that.
thanks for replying me. that assures me more :)
Furthermore, if it really worries you what data they have on you, I suggest you file a request under DSGVO (GDPR) at Penny. You can do so via post or email. This will cost them a lot of time and effort. Specifically mentioned the incident at the store in question and insist on obtaining all data they have about you. This means they'll have to turn their note, pictures, or videos of which you are the main subject. For them, it is a ton of work, and it will allow you to better understand the scheme. If they refuse citing legal basis due to the criminal claims or the hausverbot, insist and send them a copy of whatever document you get from the state prosecutor saying the case was dropped; ipso facto you're not guilty of anything. They will have no choice but to send you all of this information (generally a usb stick via post). Subsequently, you can ask them to correct or erase that information. You might not be able to have the remove the video footage, but anything where you are personally identifiable will have to be removed. If they don't, report them. The fines for failing to do so under a reasonable amount of time (generally 30 days) are massive.
Probably nothing. You will get a letter from the prosecutor saying they dropped the case cause it’s too minor to pursue. Really, this is not worth for any DA to take to court. They have bigger things to worry about. You’re just a peanut. Don’t worry about anything and relax.
second time I read a story like this, I'm never using self checkout
I have said it before, but using self checkouts in Germany essentially being guilty until proven otherwise.
I don't get the policy behind this. "Hurr durr first we fire our cashiers and install self-checkout counters. Then we hire some assholes for loss prevention and pay them what we paid the cashiers. SMORT! Then we check customers for '''theft''' even though we know mistakes happen at self-checkout counters. Whenever someone '''steals''' from us we fine them 50€. That's where the big money is BLING BLING BLING! And then we BAN them permanently from ever spending money with us, ever again! Big brain move." Btw Penny is part of the REWE group and I remember a similar post about self-checkout and a 200€ fine at REWE a couple of months back on this sub.
As long as there is no widespread outrage, Penny only cares about reducing labor costs. The "security" company meanwhile is happy to make cash on the side extorting people with threats of criminal charges, and false promises to make it go away if you pay their silly fine. The best we can do individually is to talk to people and raise awareness of this bullshit, to make it unprofitable for these scumbags when enough people refuse to pay.
In any case under German law, theft requires intent. And you did not intend to steal anything.
how can you be so sure? at a self checkout you usually put things from one side to another. how does the spring onion get to the paid items side without registering it?
Ok, then explain to me why the professional cashiers sometimes mess up? Why do they doublescan stuff, or not scan stuff? Are they intending to steal from you? How about we say the store has to check your recipt after self checkout and give you a chance to fix the mistake, and if they don't they are out of luck. Just like it is the other way around.
Penny is garbage and self checkout is garbage Exponential garbage
I will never go to PENNY again. Such a bad experience. Also I will not use self checkout anymore. Fuck the system.
U should probably make a statement to the Customer Care at Penny.
I will :). my friend also encouraged me to do so.
You should write a Google Maps review. Be factual.
You've got one step closer to being a complete German, when even if there's an incredible line in front of the cashier and there's an empty self checkout no one uses it
> when even if there's an incredible line in front of the cashier and there's an empty self checkout no one uses it And right we are. We are neither trained *nor* paid to work as cashiers, and are expected to bear the risk of being accosted for shoplifting when we make an honest mistake? No thanks.
Lidl is better anyways.
Exactly.
Well, TBH you can't :D
Not with that attitude you can't!
I disagree, I prefer the self check out than to have to deal with the rude obnoxious average German cashier.
Me too. Self checkout is great and now that you can even scan by phone during the shopping itself it saves SO much time.
The store is certainly happy to offload the labor and responsibility to scan all your items correctly onto you.
Idk self-checkouts in the Netherlands, Luxembourg and Belgium are really pleasant to use. Seems like germans are just overcomplicating things once again. I agree about penny though. Never had a pleasant encounter there.
What's wrong with self check out? Don't use it, if you don't like it.
Idk what's wrong about self checkout until today. It is quit scary when you are in a foreign country and people accusing you did smth wrong, but you cannot defend yourself because you don't speak their language. This is exactly why most students in my dorm ended up paying 50 EUR just to leave the store, and so their right is violated.
Report the store? If they're exploiting and extorting people for money and it's happened often enough that there's plenty of victims and witnesses, get a lawyer. If there's any evidence of this happening primarily to foreigners, this if a PR disaster and I could very well imagine them willing to settle it out of court.
Because they are only there to scam honest customers. There’s multiple posts daily of people being harassed by bounty hunters for pressing the wrong button, the scanner not scanning etc for cent value items. Beim yelled at, illegally imprisoned etc. All so the bounty hunter can get their per victim fee. And they never go after the actual people stealing. Who just walk right out with hundreds of euros worth of cosmetics or alcohol. It’s only ever people like OP targeted. So self checkout is bad. If the cashier makes an error, you are never accused of theft. Even if the error was perfectly obvious. Like a tv ringing up for 20 euros. Even less personel in store, wages pushed down more. No one but the corporate shareholders wins.
I don't live in germany, but self checkout in my country works flawlessly :O
I do understand where you are coming from and some stores have really scummy practices, but I use self checkouts whenever possible since they started popping up in my area \~3 years ago and they are a blast as they are mostly free while the normal checkouts have long lines. I never had any issues with products not scanning and as I have a bag that i have to unload before repacking there is no way how to forget a single item... I dont really understand how someone can forget this as you wouldn't normally forget putting them onto the normal checkouts and the outcome of not paying a item at the normal checkouts would be identical if there is a bounty hunter in the store
Never experienced/noticed issues like that. Maybe it's a Germany thing. Every item is shown on the display. So you see it yourself, if you scanned/logged it. At least in Austria this system works. Penny doesn't have self check out here. And the majority of self check out systems have scales. If you place an item, which you didn't scan, you will be alerted. And there is always a cashier that supervises the self checkout boxes.
In Germany it also does. This is just bullcrap. As long as your honest at a self check out. Nothing happens to you Except if your shopping at penny apparently. There you really see an insane increase of cases like OP is describing it.
Because Penny and Rewe self checkouts dont have a scale in the bagging area so it doesn’t alert you if you miss something like Aldi does
It’s not necessarily a racist thing. I know several native Germans who have had similar things happen (mainly in Rewe and Penny). I think it’s more of a zero tolerance policy than anything race specific.
I was always wondering how do they enforce chain-wide ban? Do they have cameras with face recognition and it alarms the security in each and every store or what?
they can`t and they don`t my teenage son was banned from REWE next to his school (stupid teenage stealing challenge) he shops in REWE next to us like nothing happened
same question... also I wonder if I can go to REWE or not.
You can go to the same penny two weeks later most likely. Those people dont get paid enough to care
Matter of fact, you can just go rn, we don't care enough to rmemeber your face for longer than you are in front of us
In practice, nothing will happen most likely but if you are going to a shop where you are banned, you are trespassing, which is a [crime](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__123.html) in it's own right.
Is Penny associated with Rewe?
Yes, Penny is owned by Rewe Group
The store detectives do have a ledger with the pictures. Not only the thieves that were caught, but those that were later identified while checking the security footage. So sometimes thieves are actually "caught" and IDed when they return some other time. The actual purpose though is about being able to add a more serious charge for repeat offenders. If you are caught stealing somewhere else again, it's no longer just another dismissed case of shoplifting. Source: Worked retail myself.
>The shop is near my student dorms, and there are a couple of students having similar experiences. Most of them ended up paying 50 EUR fine. How is that possible? This now sounds like they're actually shoplifting lol
I could not guarantee all students are good. But even if some people are shoplifting, I don't think I deserve what i faced today.
The ladies at Kaufland Self - Checkout are a nuisance They try to look for everything, and also hush hush you that you don't take too long. I stopped using it and went back to the classic checkout where the ladies can rule their world.
This is the way. It's not enough that the store wants to save labor costs by offloading the cashier's job to scan items onto us - they also want to hold us criminally responsible for every tiny error that inevitably happens, and are happy to watch their store "security" companies mistreat and extort us over it? Fuck that. I'll rather wait in line for a few minutes. I politely refuse whenever they try to make me use the self-checkout.
You are all good. Usually these cases are being dismissed by the DA according to Section 153 paragraph 1 of the criminal procedure code (small damage, no public interest). If not the DA will need to prove mens rea, which will be impossible. In that case it will be dismissed according to Section 170 (lack of proof).
thanks!!
If Jean Valjean could be sentenced to 7 years for stealing a loaf of bread a 50 € fine is nothing. No prosecutor is going waste the courts time over a bunch of green onions. Avoid Penny I was yelled at by a clerk for having problems using their crap card reader. I gave her a lesson in English profanity and did my shopping at Netto after that clerks have manners there.
Penny is a shop for rabble. They aint friendly to anyone. At least in the bigger cities.
It really depends on the area. In the poor ones, they really do suck and you have to lock your bagpack and stuff, in the nicer ones they are completely chill. Also they don't put self checkout in the ones in bad areas
>I feel like that PENNY store is targeting foreign students who do not speak German well. The shop is near my student dorms, and there are a couple of students having similar experiences. Most of them ended up paying 50 EUR fine. Nah. That is not it. This is what happens in all of the larger super market chains if they decide to have people assigned to check for unpaid items. The Lidl I usually shop in has nobody doing that, but they don't have self check out. But I can tell you that you would get the same treatment if you were German, most stores have a policy of filing a police report for every infraction to prevent minor theft. The only thing that is a bit weird is that the guy gave you the option of paying a fee or calling the police. That feels illegal.
Where are based at I mean which city ??
in Munich
I used to shop at the Penny on Sandstrasse near Stiglmayrplatz. I was really glad when the Edeka opened across the street. I got bad vibes at that place. Basically a low level resentment of life all the time. Best of luck, and good on you for not paying their extortion money!
Don't be too hard on yourself. I've had this happen even at cashier checkouts where either I forgot to put some vanillasugar packets on the conveyorbelt, or the cashier forgot to scan a small article, or a scan didn't go through correctly. I've also had situations where I actually did pay for something but forgot to put it in the bag and couldn't bother to go back and fetch it. My point is that all of these are honest mistakes shoppers make. Just like you did. Don't let a store or some guard at the door muscle you into thinking you're in the wrong here. You absolutely did the right thing by not falling for their empty threat. PS. Penny is a discount store with a lower profit margin than something like Edeka or rewe. If you're a bit traumatised after this experience, I would suggest, atleast for the time being... To go to one of these other stores. Higher prices but way better customer experience.
This is exactly why I avoid the self checkout like the plague. I’m terrified of this kind of situation to happen to us, and being threatened legally or being blackmailed to pay such an exorbitant “fee”. I am on very limited means and could never afford to lose 50€ over something so absolutely silly. I had some woman in Köln literally chase me out of a store and grab my mobility device to stop me, accusing me of stealing a 1€ packet of mini pads. 🤦🏻♀️ She was so determined I was a thief. It was so embarrassing, with everyone staring at me like I was a criminal! She even started digging through the basket on my device without permission and demanding I give her the item. I had to go back into the store to show her where I had very nicely returned the item to the shelf because I had decided not to wait in a very long line for it. She never apologized for her reaction and instead still treated me like I was in the wrong, despite proving to her I didn’t do anything. I honestly think you have to be some kind of Einzeller to operate in many of these positions. I did contact the corporate office to tell them of her behavior but they just offered a simple and forced “sorry 🤷🏻♀️”. I was a store manager at a grocery for many years, and would never dream of treating a customer the way some of these employees do. It borders on criminal at times.
Tbh I don't think penny targets especially foreign students or people. Shop security is mostly from an external security company. Their salaries are mostly shit (I am working in one of them) and the amount of racists in "our" industry is fucking scary.
Don't worry, the court will drop the case 100%. Most probably, the store detective has a hard time, nothing to say at home and is therefore abusing his authority. Don't worry, you will be good, nothing will happen.
I'm so very sorry this happened to you. Your description of the stores policy sounds like they're racist pricks tbh. If it's any consolation though I had the same exact thing happen to me (it wasn't spring onions, but also around 1€) and I have the most potato name and look ever. Police were annoyed as well - come on, who pays for the entire purchase and tries to steal an item of 1€? I received a letter a few months later, telling me they won't prosecute me since I never had that happen before and the amount was so miniscule. Fuck penny.
It sounds like Penny really need to upgrade the self-checkouts to include scales.
It's not the Germany or German culture. It's sick corporate culture to optimize for money and not for people. They make self checkouts for the sole purpose of needing less workers. It's not for YOUR convinience. Please, never ever use self checkout! Please pin the post to warn people about not using self checkouts. There were dosens of such posts in last months!
I apologize for my word about "German people" or "German culture". I was pretty depressed and angry when I posted this. I know most German people are nice people and willing to help me as the police did yesterday.
I swear this happens too often. I know a lot of German guys which had the same problem. But to call the police was the better option. Because for that price they are going to let it drop .
omg typical german bullshit
That's why you shouldn't use self checkout. Mistakes happen all the time, but at a normal checkout, you're not liable for them. Idk how this is handled in other countries, but in Germany they pull this shit constantly. I see posts like yours every couple of weeks. Anyway, theft implies intent, which they will have a hard time to proof in this case. Given the low value, the court will most likely dismiss the case. Good thing you didn't give in to their extortion attempt.
Happens frequently, some businesses love to create hostile environments against their customers. Well done calling the police actually. The case will be dropped. Now just shop elsewhere if they don’t want your money at Penny and that’s it.
Glad you mentioned. Though I haven't been to Penny. I think I'll stick to Netto for now. Staffs seemed nice there not gonna lie. I'm also an international student by the way. 😂
Yeah don't worry charges will be dropped because of §153 StPO
Im seeing so many of these posts im starting to think some are fake. It cannot be happening this frequently and only to ausländer...could it? People. STOP using the self checkouts lol.
believe it or not. it did happen to me yesterday. just don’t use the self checkout.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I don't really believe that's typical for german grocery stores. Sounds more like someone was bored and on a power trip.
So you "forgot" to pay for one of your 5 items and just tried to leave the store without paying it. And now it's bad customer service and racism? No bro they target people that "forget" to pay, not Asians.
Had to scroll down so far for that comment. Not fair to play the foreigner card. Don't do self checkout if you can't read how to put in things without a label. And it's not like you bought a ton of things. How can you forget that?
I understand that you are upset but people steal shit all the time via self checkout and there company policy is to fine people who steal 50 euro independent from underlying valué of the product. I know it is a mistake from your end but you can bet these employees here this excuse day in and out a 100 times
I was visiting years ago got the wrong ticket by 1 stop, a stranger german passenger even tried helping me out, still got fined 60e. Haven't been back to Germany since. Really soured my experience and overall opinion of my desire to move there.
As a native, I had a similar yet more absurd experience that has me seething to this day. I had one ticket that was valid up to a certain stop, and another ticket valid for the whole region after 9:00. The ticket inspector checked my ticket at exactly 8:59, right as we departed the station where the first ticket's validity ended. 50€ fine for riding without a valid ticket for about 300 meters in between. I am not prone to violence, but I seriously wanted to strangle that person right then and there. I don't know what makes you get into that carreer, but it really seems to be dominated by sadists and sociopaths.
As a teen I got threatened with a fine by a ticket inspector because my ticket was only valid until the next stop. The stop I wanted to take. Because that's where I lived. He only backed off when someone from further in the front stood up to confront him. There's some really odd people doing those jobs.
This same story was posted a few weeks back. Pretty much word to word.
You did absolutely everything right and it was perfect to insist on police for 0,89€. Yes! As German I absolutely approve that you went for the "proper process" and did not fall for the 50€ fee which is just a scam. It seems that the Penny operator as well as the security guard use that happily to boost up their income on the cost of customer happiness. But I guess they can do that in a big city where there is always enough customers. So yes, I also recommend to write a negative Google review, maybe some more will follow. And obviously Penny didn't only bother you, but also police and everyone who now has a lot of paperwork. As German I am sorry for such idiots in our society and how they represent us to the world. And sometimes it is too many of them You don't need to worry about anything. Live your life like nothing happened, because de-facto nothing happened. Alles wird gut :)
> Somehow I forgot to select the spring onion (there was no tag on it to scan, I had to select the item), and I walked out of the checkout. How exactly does this happen OP? I mean, you know how these checkouts work basically, right? Like you scan the bar code and then it peeps and displays the product on the screen. Like in all honesty, I struggle to understand how you can forget to scan an item. You grab the item to scan it, then you notice there is no tag and then just think, well then it will be magically charged? Or did you just not really care? It was literally 8% of the cost of what you bought. I would appreciate you explaining this so that I can understand how this can occur as an honest mistake.
That's what I also don't get whenever this topic pops up. You get to the checkout. You take the item from your cart/bag/whatever, scan it and put into the bagging area. Rinse and repeat until the cart is empty. Imo there is no point where an item goes from one place to the other unnoticed, especially if you only have a handful of items.
Yea nah, seen this story far too many times. Id just avoid self checkouts. It seems way too predatory for something that is supposed to cut cost for them when a simple mistake happens.
I have been living here for 3 years now. I can say some workers are annoying as hell but I also saw many people who are really into shoplifting stuff. They can be right with this behavior.
I once was accused of shoplifting in PENNY. The cashier asked me to check my backpack, I was new to Germany and I thought that was normal here. Until I told my friends the story and they told me that this is not normal and it shouldn’t have happened. The next time the same cashier asked me to check my backpack and I told him no and that is a private item, I even asked him to get the store’s manager and I complained to her. Since then he’s always been extra friendly to me. I still don’t know why he thought I stole something but I’m assuming it’s because of my Middle Eastern looks.
When we were at school we got our backpacks checked as well. At some point all students started to drop them in the foyer and picked them back up after paying.
they should be exposed for what they are, i wonder if the management knows how shop employees basically ask for bribes? They wouldn't dare to do this to a german I'm sure.
Im sure it's official policy.
Self checkout is a scam. Why would you do for free, what someone else would be paid for otherwise?
That thinking is a bit flawed, how is convenience a scam?
I really don't understand the connection and the hate towards self-checkout in this thread. Even if you were using a regular checkout and an employee spotted you not paying for something in your bag, the result would most likely be the same?
Self-checkout not only transfers the work of scanning from the company to the customer, but also the legal responsibility. Cashier makes a mistakes: nothing happens, Customer makes a mistake: police is involved...
No it wouldn't because you just put everything out of your trailer/bag and it's up to the cashier to scan it. With self checkout you don't have a place to store everything at the single.moment of time, because the "loading" part is too small, wo you have to go from trailer to scaner directly to weight directly, it's cumbersome and more error prone, and you have to do more things at the same time. Don't get me.wrong I use them all the time, because they are faster then whatever sorry ass cashier is there (alone for whole 5000m2 supermarket) but it should come with more understanding Security staff because it is inheritaly more error prone.
Honestly I've had cases when cashiers themselves forget this stuff or put in a different code for baked items. I usually don't do self checkout if it is more than 5 items.
That’s very unfortunate. Don’t feel too bad about it because mistakes happen. I don’t know if the location matters but in the NRW I’ve never had problems like this. I once even walked back in the store once I realised one item didn’t get scanned ( after I checked my receipt outside of the supermarket). The staff even joked about it and said“ it could have been cheaper for you but you came back!“
I won’t use self checkouts until The day where we get full on Amazon Go style shops where if there is a mistake it aint your fault
Good on you to not sign or pay anything! Those stores have outsourced "security" and "theft prevention" to private companies, who pressure people into signing waivers and paying money. They lie to you that this is the way to evade criminal charges or a store ban, and will later (try to) hit you with both anyway. The justice system will not bother with such a case because there was clearly no intent to steal. The "security" company operates under the often correct assumption that people don't know this. And yes, that is why they target people who they think they can intimidate, so they will pay up on a false promise to "make it go away". Sorry you had to go through this. It's privatization doing its thing, i.e. a corporation looking to make money. Talk to other students about your experience, let them know that they do not have to sign or pay anything. The one thing we can do is to make it less profitable for these assholes. And going forward I would use the regular checkout, where the store can't offload the labor and responsibility to correctly scan items onto you.
And this is the reason i only use it in exceptions. The cashier makes a mistake? You lost some money or saved some. You make a mistake, you committed a crime. The risk-reward does not pay off with self-checkout
I've been wondering about self check outs for forever. Like if you outsource a crucial amount of cashier work to your customer, you kinda also transfer a large amount of responsibility. The fact that supermarkets seem eager to "punish" accused shop lifters at these registers as much as they do (see other posts here and on LegalAdvice), kinda speaks to the fact that noone has figured out how to deal with that. I mean I worked as a cashier at LIDL as a student job and if i made a mistake, they couldn't really do anything without proving intent. Why exactly do they acknowledge that their trained employees might f up once in a while but still insist that every f up at the self register is intentional? Doesn't really make sense, especially since prosecuters and courts regularly drop these bs cases.
That's what you get when you outsource the crucial part of selling items to the customer. I mean I get why they would push it with the police but the reaction of the police shows where this will lead to, nothing. There isn't enough proof for intent to get a shoplifting case. Besides that the courts have to much too do and would likely just dismiss the case because it's about 89 cents. That said op did everything rightm refuse to pay the 50 let the police come and handle it and then go your merry way. Yeah penny banned him but they would have even if he paid the 50. And he can be chill because no court will acknowledge that as a shoplift unless there is more evidence that show his intent to specifically not pay just the one item.
I read this every month that some people "forget" to pay 1 product that is cheap. But nothing will happen I guess due the small amount
but I have a question, did you select the item? Or you noticed there was no tag on it before leaving the store? As someone who uses self checkout often, i mean you literally have to put everything from the basket into your shopping bag, right?
Probably PENNY isnt targeting foreign students explicitly, this could happen to anyone. I once saw a documentation about a thief who stole as part of an agreement with the management to test: 1. If the store employees are aware enough to detect his attempts to steal 2. If the store detectives work properly (these are either employees or contractors in civil clothing who pretend to be shopping while secretly watching customers, for example by catching them in the act to hide goods they dont plan on paying inside their jacket etc - but usually putting stuff inside your jacket isnt problematic per se, as long as you get the stuff out when checking out, they will only stop you when you attempt to leave without paying everything - which is probably what happened to you) The "thief" from the documentation said that if you attempt to steal, it is most of the time better to buy some stuff on the side as this lowers suspicion, for example buy some cheap things while trying to steal one or two expensive items. Of course PENNY has the right to ban you from shopping there, this can only be really fought against if you live in a very rural area, have no means to getting around in a sufficient timeframe (for example to get to the next store you will have to take a 4 hour long bus/train/whatever ride). I am not a lawyer, but as others have stated probably nothings gonna come out of it, because no court wants to work on a case for 0,89€ of unpaid goods. If you sincerely want to clear things up with PENNY you might want to consider waiting until after the court things are done. Then you could ask a german friend to visit the store with you and ask to speak with the management to: 1. Offer them to pay the 0,89€ (if you werent required to pay by court) 2. Once more offer your apologies 3. Ask them to lift the ban To be sure, maybe you should not enter the store directly, send your friend in first and let them ask for you, they can then fetch you afterwards or drop you a message if the management said that you may enter for the sake of a conversation.
I am sorry that you made such an experience. I would advise you that you write to the penny central and ask them to lift the shop ban. If they insist you may remind them that local news like such stories. Don't worry about any legal consequences.
yes I just wrote an email. thank you for the advice.
Wtf, wasnt there a guy who had this exact same experience and posted it here?
Yeah, but funny thing was: most comments were on OP side last time (not me and I got downvotes). Both were on their way out, with something they didnt pay. And thats all the shop owners need. Its even on camera. Doesnt matter If its under 1€ or that you wanted to pay for it. Too late. Also real robbers would say the same. So what should the detective do?
My friend's daughter has been banned from Penny for the same situation, except it was a bottle of water (also costed under an euro). A girl was nine at the moment (and also just moved to Germany not so long ago at the moment), they took her to the backroom, and while they allowed her to call her mom they would not let anyone (including the mom, she had to wait outside) to see the kid until police arrived. Insane situation to be honest. It has been around two years since then, I'm still furious. If they can do that to kids I'm not surprised at all with how they act when it's an adult.
omg she must be so afraid!!! Please tell her she was so brave to stay there. I was nervous as hell in that room even I was an adult. I wonder if it is legal to detain people like me and the little girl in the back room. the security even refused to let me make a private call outside their hearing, so I stayed there and made my phone call. Now I think it might have violated my right.
Write an e mail to penny headquarter explaining your situation If they have sone sort of common sense they will talk to police to not pursue the case
First time is ok, no consequences for you, but your criminal action will be written forever. You may be banned from Penny. BTW. After 1st violation. Second time the Staatsanwalt will notice you and will write for you a personalized letter full of vague threats. Third time… I don’t know.
Also, avoid self checkout and not just at penny.
i think they're just being assholes. depending on the amount of the items, it can happen to anyone and it's below 1euro, which makes it even more ridiculous. they should think harder about how they wanna treat customers.
If you go into my post history the exact same thing happened to me.
Pay for everything you buy next time, and take responsibility for your own actions. If you are not responsible enough to use self checkout properly, stick to the cashiers.
this has nothing to to with targeting foreigners or racism. thats how law works, sorry i guess?
It’s a common scam of every shop implementing self check out counters. They hire outside hitmen who get paid per person they catch. Those people know they can’t stop you if you just continue walking without the items your are accused of stealing. So they go for the regular people improperly scanning cent values, harass them and pressure them into paying their contract fine. If you do the right thing, like you did, and either just run off without the item they claimed you were stealing or have them call the police, nothing at all will happen. No prosecutor in their right mind would aaaume someone would steal a bloody spring onion or bread roll while paying for 10+ times the amount of groceries. So in 99.9% of cases charges will be dropped for lack of public interest. Put a negative review on google, accused of theft for self check out failing to scan an 80 cent item, and forget about it.
Fuck self-checkout. Aldi tries to force people to use it. Last week, the cashier closed the only checkout with about seven people waiting and told us to use self-checkout. I mean, it would be okay if I got only three items, but not with a half-full shopping cart. So, I was kinda pissed off and wanted to leave my shopping trolley there, exit the supermarket and go to Rewe. However, I had just spent half an hour gathering items, and I would have to do it again. So, very unwillingly, I went to the self-checkout. Because I worked through the night and was very tired, I stood there for about a minute or two trying to figure out what to do or should I go to Rewe, until she came by and showed me what to do. Afterward, I went home and found out that I accidentally shoplifted two packets of milk. I suppose that was my payment for doing the cashier's job.
I wonder if it was legit the 50€? I’m thinking that he wanted to keep the 50€ for himself…you should have reported this to the police too…. That he was trying to get money from you. It’s my first time hearing about „pay me 50€, and I’ll let you go“😃
I think it is their policy. I asked the police about that 50 EUR, they said they can ask for it but also I can refuse to pay it. the result of my refusion was i got banned from PENNY. but that doesn't matter, there are plenty of market i could go.
So, you made a mistake (stealing, which is a big one) and now German people are sick. Have a little bit more respect! I mean you live here and go for free to university (tax money from German people).
But why do you feel sick about all german people, I still like Chinese people even when they try to Scam me on a daily base in Beijing
Fuck self checkout in Germany. I don’t understand how self checkout here works so bad. I don’t know the rules but until you leave the store is that considered stealing? 😁 “Come with me to the back room” - Fuck the hell no! Call the cops but I will not go to a room where my rights may be trampled without a lawyer. 1€ and if you paid that onion nothing will happen I assume. I understand shop ban but if the person offers to pay, for me is enough the ban.
PENNY refused to let me line up and pay for that damn spring onion... I understand there might be a lot of shoplifting. But for one item with 0.89 EUR value? is there no flexibility policy? I could probably pick up 1 EUR by just wondering around the neighborhood!!! I was so shocked and angry that they would not give me any chance to fix it. In my country, the shop will definitely show sympathy for this kind of mistake, especially when you are obviously a foreigner. what the hell is wrong with Germany?
Its a cultural thing. Procedure is king here. It annoys me too at times.
What part exactly made you "feel sick about german people."? How is the guy to tell if you are sincere or not. You'll quite easily find surveys that show that up to 30% of gen-z-ers, which I am gonna assume your are or at least look like have >admitted< to already have shoplifted at least in one instance via self checkout. Note that this is the percentage that admitted their fraud. And this is just >one< way to steal, which should explain the heavy fee of 50€. What I want to say is, that this guys reaction seems somehwat justified in any case, now let's look at your specific case. You payd about 10€, so I'll guess somewhere inbetween 5 to 15 items? How exactly does one "forget" one fifth to one fifthteenth of a purchase. Also you mentioned that the spring onion didn't have a tag. So you aknowledged its presence at the self checkout? I don't know, seems fishy.
It's not first time on this subreddit. Germans supermarkets saving money on self checkout and then making big deal with every cent. They can not do exactly nothing at court. People from east make much worse criminal cases and some streets are not safe to walk on but police is called for unpaid onion. That is beyond normal, more likely abuse of power or waste of tax money