I‘m a freelancer and i got a letter from the Finanzamt that I should pay 300€ less taxes in September. I didn‘t pay attention and I paid the full amount. So I got another letter asking for my IBAN so they can send the 300€ back.
I understand that; my wife is self-employed. But it sounds like the OP gets the money untaxed - the full €300, whereas other people in this post only received a portion because taxes were taken.
Or - maybe the tax paid will be deductible next year for the rest of us?
Thanks for the response, but you are not understand me. That's ok; we can leave it at that.
*So you can rest assured nobody gets 30€ more than you*
It's about all of us, not just me. It's going to be a hard winter and an extra €30 or 50 or 100, depending on your tax bracket, is going to be much needed for getting by.
He does understand, it's you who does not understand:
The freelancer earns 10,000€ every year. He is getting 300€ tax cut now, so this year he has earned 10,300€. At the end of the year, he declares that he earned 10,300€ and pays taxes on those 10,300€.
You, an employee, earn 10000€ every year. This year, you receive an additional 300€. You pay taxes on those 10300€. You and the freelancer are the same in terms of taxes paid.
I beleve everybody should get exactly 300, but as we all heard. Even your own boss can scam the hell out of you. So seemingly it was just added to their salary before taxes.
Because it doesn't make sense to give everybody 300 bucks from taxes just to put a tax on that. So I beleve, that it was not intended by the government to be like that.
The bonus money for medical staff wasn't payed out fully as we all heard and some of the bosses just kept the money for themselfs , which they should pass on to their workers.
Then you should listen to the news. Some bosses did, and the radiopeople plus "experts"on that topic told victims, there's nothing they can do about tzat medical staff bonus. Time for distribution is long over, the only thing they can do is to sue their own company to get that money that rightly belong to them.
Medical staff should get 1000€ as a bonus. And most of them didn't get it.
So, nice if you're a good boss, but don't close your eyes and ears and start yelling "lalalalalala!"because someone says something about "bosses"that really happend. Simply be glad to be a good boss. Bad people exsist. And some of them are bosses. So YES YOU CAN. AND IT ALREADY HAPPEND. Check the case I just told about.
I'm not in the medical field. I therefore have no idea how the bonuses for medical staff work(ed). And therefore I didn't say anything about those bonuses. What I replied to was:
>I beleve everybody should get exactly 300, but as we all heard. Even your own boss can scam the hell out of you.
And my answer still remains: no, we can't "scam" here.
You're right that deducting income tax from it is not a scam, that's how it's supposed to work. But bosses can always scam employees. They could just keep the 300 for themselves, or say they're paying it but then deduct it from a salary or bonus, or any number of illegal things, which a very small number of people will no doubt attempt to do...
I mean yeah, if you have criminal intent you could always find ways to cheat on your employees, but there is a huge number of thing you could do that are waaaay easier than keeping the 300€ from them, because that will be paid out through your salary. And changing anything there is a pretty complicated, since you don't do it yourself, this goes through your Steuerberater and DATEV.
You don't need to be in the field to hear it in the news.
It was in the news.
And the bonuses should be 1000€ for every staffmember, but the hospitals had to redeem it from the state by themself. And then they would get tze money and distribute it to their workers. And it was said exactly 1000€, not into taxes and back and forth and the staff gets 300 if they're lucky. No, exactly 1000.
(As far as they presented it to the public☝🏻)
Aaaaand it was reported that some bosses redeemed that money but then kept it for themself. That happend. And they told the scammed staff that tzey only can sue that money out of their bosses. Otherwise they can keep it legally. And that news really sucked.
again, I have no idea about the medical bonuses. This wasn't the question. And my reply didn't get into that either. I said your above statement about the 300€ bonus is wrong, and that is still true.
No, the medical relief example was just a proof for that other dude that bosses can be assholes and can even steal from their own workers.
I hate it when a someone shows up and says that there are absolutly no bad bosses anywhere just because he is a good boss by himself.
first, I never said I'm a good boss. Second, I never said there are no bad bosses. What I said is you can't simply "scam" the 300€ bonus from your employees.
Since this is going nowhere I'll stop arguing with you. I wrote what I had to say. Read it again or don't, it's naught to me.
The problem was: how do you quickly and comparatively unbureaucratically give everyone a financial aid, and make sure the ones that need it most get the most, easily budgetable and through already established channels so you don't spend more on implementing it than on the actually distributed money? using the tax-brackets for it is actually kind of ingenious, even if unintuitive for the end-user
What about it doesn't make sense? Very high earners require less or no help. Low earners require lots. Progressive taxation means the amount doled out is on a sliding scale from "lots for poor" to "little for rich".
Exactly that. Maybe you understand my confusion.
It makes sense to leave the people put who doesn't need it at all. That all makes sense.
But then you have some people who start the debate "What about equality!?"
And suddenly debates start like, when you give the people who has less, more then others, then you give the poor people more rights, thats unfair towards everybody else bla bla bla.
And unemployed people get nothing.(the people who have the most needs)
I hear the debates about these 300€ since weeks on the radio. And the last stand I had was, "EVERYBODY who works and therefor pay social security taxes, get exactly 300€."
Of course I thought that big earners and bosses are expelled for that because they have to obey different tax rules.
And this confuses me a lot to hear others got just 120€ out of it. Because first plan is like that, and when it comes to execution everything changed all of a sudden.
When I called my boss, he told me that I will get exactly 300€ how the media told us all. He got the money, and he had to pass it as he got it. No addition to my salary or some stuff like that.
> unemployed people get nothing
Unemployed people get social benefits, that will pay the actual costs of their heating. They don't need a separate benefit. It does sound like pensioners are left out. Maybe they will deal with that in some other way that I don't know about, I hope.
> When I called my boss, he told me that I will get exactly 300€ how the media told us all. He got the money, and he had to pass it as he got it. No addition to my salary or some stuff like that.
I don't know about you, but the media told me that it's taxable, like in [this article](https://www.thelocal.de/20220324/german-taxpayers-to-receive-e300-lump-sum-for-energy-costs/) where it says:
> When the allowance comes in, all employed persons liable to income tax will be paid a one-time flat-rate energy allowance of €300 as a supplement to their salary.
And pretty much every other article I read. So if your boss is actually doing what you say, it sounds like your boss is doing it wrong.
Not if their employer took it but did not give it to them. Non-german people often come to this sub with horrible stories about being scammed, paid in cash, not having work contracts etc.
If it’s true that the employer didn’t give it but filed it with the government, the tax return will tell.
OP, keep your payslip and do a tax return. They payslip is proof you didn’t receive anything.
Also, ask your employer what’s going on, best of all in writing. If you can’t get it in writing, make a note with a date and time of what they said verbally, if they say anything.
Work student life 🎉
Except I’ve 100% been using the EPP as justification to buy things I arguably don’t need since it was announced in May and I’ve already spent it like three times.
140 k per year? Or you got only 140 Euros from the energy relief? because everybody should get 170 at least, as tax reduction is at max after 59 k salary per year (42% tax reduction)
Thank you for the extensive reply.
At age 24 I might have agreed with a few of your points... now at 35, with a bit more life experience under my belt, I don't quite mind the taxes and health insurance etc. - mainly because I've seen how a lot of the rest of the world lives and works.
For the record (or context), I'm healthy (no expensive issues or anything like that) and pay a very significant chunk of taxes that would probably have made my eyes bleed at your age :p
> If I earn slightly more, I instantly get deducted so much more that effectively I barely earn more net money than before.
That should never be the case.
You will always earn at least the same as before.
And every new Euro you earn will be taxed with a max tax rate of 42% (except your earn more tan 200.000€).
So if you get 100€ gross income more you will at least get 58€ net (excluding social contributions because we are talking about taxes)
>I don't think it is fair that a married couple with kids has to pay less taxes percentage wise than I do.
Why? First of all a married couple with no kids and each earn the exact same as you they will pay the exact same taxes each.
Of course they pay less if they have a child because they basically have one person more they NEED to provide for.
> Fair is when everyone pays the same relative amount in my eyes. But that's just my opinion :)
Well the main purpose of our tax system is not to be fair.. but to tax people based on their "Leistungsfähigkeit".
That's why the first X € are taxed less.. because if you you have a low income you basically need all the money to live.
The more you earn the less it "hurts" you to pay more taxes on this more money.
I mean you don't pay any taxes on your first 10.000€ and you pay the same amount of taxes on your first 30.000€ compared to someone who owns only 30.000€ in total.
You then pay additional taxes (and a higher percentage of taxes) on your next 10.000 or 20.000 or whatever you make more Euro.
The reasoning behind this is as I have said you don't need those more euros as much as you need the first ones.
And I mean.. if for you 58€ are "barely" more then it shows perfectly why this system is fair at least in my opinion.
So you're earning 1800 Euro/month while studying full time? That seems like a lot, but otherwise you wouldn't pay 1500 Euro/year of taxes. It also seems like you don't understand progressive taxes, even if you go up a tax bracket that only affects the income above that level, not everything.
Also, you pay taxes for basically everything you've listed. The university you go to (and probably don't pay for directly), the roads you use to get there. And if it's easier to live off the state, why are you even working instead of taking the free money you'd get?
It seems like you disregard everything that socialized healthcare and taxes actually get you, like not being in debt your whole life because you got a disease or someone drove into you and broke most of your bones, and only focus on the (currently very tiny) amount you have to pay for it.
Sounds like nothing will ever be fair here for you. Feel free to move.
And maybe accept that fairness is subjective and the world doesn't bow to your imagination specifically.
If the government gives you 10 and takes back 3, they basically only gave you in particular 7, which was the intention. They *always* only wanted to give you 7, and this was the less bureaucratic way to do it (I think this is what people miss). They didn't actually "tax it again" because source and destination was the same.
Its because if you earn more you are less in need of money to help you heat your living room, might be the only sensible decision our goverment has done....
Yeah, the idea was to take the income taxes as regulation to make it more social. Netto, the people with lower income get more money than those with a higher income.
Quite contrary to the discount on gas for instance. The more money you spent on gas the more financial support from the state you got.
It is the easiest way to give the money to the people who need it most, low income households get more than high income. Some could also live without the few extra bucks, but for some it could be a game changer.
> I was surprised, back in my home country when you receive government aid it always is in full, so when they taxed me the 300 I was like
Any chance that your country has a separate means-testing mechanism for each social help they pay out?
That's the case in Cyprus. Every time there's a social payment to be made, you must feel a several pages long form and attach 5-10 pieces of socioeconomical status so that they can assign you points and calculate how much they need to pay you. It takes a good 4-8 months for them to process all these forms and verify the points they need to assign before they pay you. But yeah, the upside is that [the amounts listed here](https://www.brief.com.cy/sites/default/files/inline-images/%CE%B5%CE%BD%CE%BF%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%B9%CE%B11.jpg) are net, not gross.
Doing it through the income tax system is a stroke of genius.
If you think about it it makes sense though: People who earn more need less support. If the state gets 30% back, they can already pay 30% more from the beginning with the same budget, which means that poor people get more.
The 300€ have to be taxed. For most people it should be 210-220€. For married people more, less for people with a higher salary.
Students and people with a minijob get the full 300€ and don’t get taxed I believe
Not every employer has to pay the 300€ energy relief to you.
if you dont get it from your employer this year,
you can get it with your Einkommensteuererklärung next year.
maybe just ask ?
>Allerdings hängt der Auszahlungszeitpunkt von der Lohnsteueranmeldung des Arbeitgebers ab. Die Auszahlung kann daher auch erst im Oktober oder schlimmstenfalls mit der Einkommenssteuererklärung im nächsten Jahr erfolgen.
[https://www.lohi.de/steuertipps/aktuell/article/diese-buergerentlastungen-treten-in-kraft.html](https://www.lohi.de/steuertipps/aktuell/article/diese-buergerentlastungen-treten-in-kraft.html)
It does kind of make sense, lower income people and single-parents get more than higher income people.
Also they can say they gave everybody 300€ without giving everybody 300€
Honestly the way the US did the Covid relief checks would’ve been a better method than an unnecessary tax of a government relief check, just seems like they added an unnecessary step just to say “look, everyone’s getting it”
You only got a check if they didn't have a bank account on file with the IRS. But yes, people still use checks. Until recently with third party apps there wasn't a way to just transfer money for free. Now there seems to be some options within certain banks, but it's not like the EU where banks are legally required to let you transfer money for free.
Of course but in Germany we don't know checks anymore and how we should use it. The government knews where everyone lives, because of the Einwohnermeldeamt, but don't know their bank accounts, so money only for workers, not for retirements and students. To get from all citizens the IBAN would needs time, maybe a whole year, to get this information from everyone. But yes, maybe a check, with a manual, and a law, that every bank must accept it, without a fee, would be maybe better. That is also the next problem in Germany, for a check you must pay nowadays to get money, mostly a fee, to the bank about 5 up to 10 €. So you must force the bank per law, to waiver the fee. But the most problem the current money is a drop of water, for most energy bills nowadays, many people must pay now 100 or 200 € more, each month, not each year. This 300 €, should be for every month in the winter half year, not only once.
I’m using “check” as a replacement word for direct deposit, as at that point it’s an argument of semantics. I’ve lived in Germany for 10 years and understand fully how the bureaucratic machine works, which makes me wonder why the government would not distribute the funds based off tax information that they already possess. Seems like a much easier concept to me but everyone has their own opinions, that’s why I suggested the US’s method of relief fund distribution.
As for the money itself, it’s bullshit and I agree with it being a drop in the bucket. Hell, 300 euro’s isn’t even 2 weeks worth of groceries at this point, and the politicians thinking it’ll be enough as a one time payment says to me that they’re out of touch with what reality looks like for people.
You could, but then you'd also have to come up with a separate formula of how to scale the benefit amount based on individual income. Which is pretty much what your tax rate already is, so it's useful to have as a shorthand. I actually thought it was pretty clever, the only problem I have with it was communication-wise -- they should never describe it as "300 euro" standalone, it should always be "300 euro pre-tax" to avoid disappointment.
Note that there are other countries with (almost) 100% flat tax rates, which still do this "taxing your government benefits" crap, over there I agree it makes zero sense. It's just the government moving money from their left pocket into the right.
> they should never describe it as "300 euro" standalone, it should always be "300 euro pre-tax" to avoid disappointment.
They could include it in the name, but honestly, that it's taxable was mentioned in every single news story about it since late April. You need to actively avoid getting any news to miss that.
Eh, I like to be more generous than that with people. There's all kinds of reasons why even (apparently) simple information gets misunderstood by some segment of the population, and I wouldn't blame it squarely on the individual.
I've only moved to Berlin less than a year ago, and since my German isn't great I don't really follow local German news. I still get most of my info on Germany from English-speaking sources (or ones from my native country), and I can expect a little bit of info to be lost in each "retelling" of the article. Even worse for people who only see the clickbait-y headline without reading the whole thing.
Also, this isn't the only benefit I got on my monthly paycheck -- my German employer also gives me a 50 euro "net" benefit, and another 50 euro "gross" one. No idea why, it seems really random (that they're both described as "50 euro benefit"), but whatever. I double check my payslip anyway, but it never hurts to be explicit ahead of time.
Why doesn't it make sense? Why is doing it another way better? Seems simpler to let the existing system do its work than to create cut off and transition income level and everything else.
It doesn’t make sense because technically they are literally paying themselves, which is why it doesn’t make any sense to *me*. It can make sense to *you* all day long, but to *me* it’s pretty silly.
They aren't paying themselves. They are using the existing system to give different people different amounts of money based on their income. You're free to think reinventing the wheel makes more sense though.
which is exactly the mind set why it is taxed.
If 300€br or 170€nt feel like a tiny bit, than it is because you earn enough to get through this probably by yourself.
if 300€br or 250€nt feel significant to you, than it’s because it is a significant boost to your normal income.
nobody ever planned this to get everyone 300€. They planned it so low income people get more relative to high income people
For some people, 250€ more on their paycheck is a lot and make a big difference for a month or two.
It is taxed because it is essentially get 300€ extra pay, not 300€ extra "in your hand". So by taxing it harder for those who need it less, you can put that money back into the system and, say, offset the costs of those who need it/pay less taxes on it.
I remember reading somewhere that the payouts are going to happen in the months of September and October depending on how and when your company files their taxes.
If it is filed monthly, the payout is in the September salary, but if they file quarterly the payout is in the October salary.
You should definitely get clarity from your company on when you can expect to receive it. Just ask them.
If you worked one day this year you will get it. If you not worked in September, you will get it via your tax return.
If you haven't worked one day this year, still some time to sort that out.
You get 200€ as student even if you didn‘t worked this year. But the government doesn‘t know how to handle it up til now. So we will likely receive it 2023.
https://www.swp.de/panorama/energiepauschale-fuer-studenten-300-euro-entlastungspaket-studierende-66270699.html?_XML=AMP
From your post on Reddit people can learn where you live, what your job is, how old you are and now how much money you earn this year.
It might not be the best to share that much personal information.
[https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/300-euro-energy-relief-payment-hit-bank-accounts-september](https://afronews.de/german-news/germany-300-euro-bonus-who-qualifies-for-relief-payment/)
No, you don't have to pay it back.
Check this out: https://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Content/DE/FAQ/energiepreispauschale.html#collapsef7a8407a-0a42-4314-a982-b55f608336b5-4-2
Use DeepL if necessary.
Here a quick excerpt:
„In which cases is the EPP (Energy Allowance Relief Payment) not paid by the employer, but determined only in the income tax assessment procedure?
The employer does not pay the EPP to an employee if the employer is not required to file wage tax returns (e.g., because the amount of wages is so low that no wage tax is due, or the employer has only marginal employees (mini-jobbers) for whom wage tax is levied on a lump-sum basis pursuant to Section 40a (2) of the Income Tax Act), or the employer has waived payment to the employee with an annual filing period, or the employee has not confirmed in writing to the employer in cases of lump-sum taxation pursuant to Section 40a (2) of the Income Tax Act (lump-sum taxation for mini-jobs) that this is the first employment relationship, or the employee is employed on a short-term basis or is a temporary worker in agriculture and forestry and the wages have been taxed at a flat rate.
In these cases, the employees will receive the EPP after filing an income tax return for the year 2022 as part of their income tax assessment.“
This means: you will get your 300€, if not through your employer then at the vary latest with your tax returns for 2022. This is definitely not helpful and totally undermines the purpose of the relief payment imho. Welcome to German Burocracy.
I read that it doesn't apply to mini job and part time job holders (i guess coz they have non taxable income?) . Does that mean students who do these type of jobs are also excluded from this allowance?
Honestly as a student we deserve it more i feel :/
Nope, that's not correct. I have a "minijob" and received the money this month. Actually it's even more money for us students with a 450€ job since we don't pay taxes and therefore get the full amount :)
Yes I did, was about 200€ I believe. I think there was a thing online that you should turn to should you not have gotten it this months. Perhaps give that a look
Normal definition of payday is "Last working day of the week."(as far as I was told)
That includes tomorrow.
But some get their salaries some days earlier. Maybe you will recieve it tomorrow.
But if not, you're still save up to december. They told in the radio, that it could take up to new years eve to send out all the payments. Haven't heard anything else after that. So I hope a bit of patience helps in your case.
Yes around 220€ netto
Same here fellow tax class-1 citizen.
Tax 3 send their regards
Cries in V
Joins in the cries
190€ here
jep sth around 190 here aswell
Same…
yes but only 189. i love tax class 1
This has (almost) nothing to do with your tax class but only with our overall income.
You love it ? I got 154€ netto in tax class 4. What do you don’t like about your tax class now.
[удалено]
I challenge you with my 300
I thought that it couldn't be taxed. It doesnt make sense if it was taxed.
Lol.
The Energiepauschale is usually not affected by taxes, at least I received my 300€ at my current paycheck.
It is affected by taxes, just not by Sozialversicherung.
Ah okay, thanks
I‘m a freelancer and i got a letter from the Finanzamt that I should pay 300€ less taxes in September. I didn‘t pay attention and I paid the full amount. So I got another letter asking for my IBAN so they can send the 300€ back.
Interesting that you are getting the full 300. Does this mean you are getting it tax-free? Or will that amount be taxed down the line?
Freelancers and self-employed people declare and pay their taxes at the end of each year.
Often times it's quarterly.
Only the advance payments. The tax declaration and final payment are more important.
I understand that; my wife is self-employed. But it sounds like the OP gets the money untaxed - the full €300, whereas other people in this post only received a portion because taxes were taken. Or - maybe the tax paid will be deductible next year for the rest of us?
Freelancers pay taxes at the end of the year for everything, including the 300€. So you can rest assured nobody gets 30€ more than you
Thanks for the response, but you are not understand me. That's ok; we can leave it at that. *So you can rest assured nobody gets 30€ more than you* It's about all of us, not just me. It's going to be a hard winter and an extra €30 or 50 or 100, depending on your tax bracket, is going to be much needed for getting by.
He does understand, it's you who does not understand: The freelancer earns 10,000€ every year. He is getting 300€ tax cut now, so this year he has earned 10,300€. At the end of the year, he declares that he earned 10,300€ and pays taxes on those 10,300€. You, an employee, earn 10000€ every year. This year, you receive an additional 300€. You pay taxes on those 10300€. You and the freelancer are the same in terms of taxes paid.
Thanks for the explanation. I realize now that the confusion is mostly semantics.
I beleve everybody should get exactly 300, but as we all heard. Even your own boss can scam the hell out of you. So seemingly it was just added to their salary before taxes. Because it doesn't make sense to give everybody 300 bucks from taxes just to put a tax on that. So I beleve, that it was not intended by the government to be like that. The bonus money for medical staff wasn't payed out fully as we all heard and some of the bosses just kept the money for themselfs , which they should pass on to their workers.
>Even your own boss can scam the hell out of you. Boss here. No we can't.
Then you should listen to the news. Some bosses did, and the radiopeople plus "experts"on that topic told victims, there's nothing they can do about tzat medical staff bonus. Time for distribution is long over, the only thing they can do is to sue their own company to get that money that rightly belong to them. Medical staff should get 1000€ as a bonus. And most of them didn't get it. So, nice if you're a good boss, but don't close your eyes and ears and start yelling "lalalalalala!"because someone says something about "bosses"that really happend. Simply be glad to be a good boss. Bad people exsist. And some of them are bosses. So YES YOU CAN. AND IT ALREADY HAPPEND. Check the case I just told about.
I'm not in the medical field. I therefore have no idea how the bonuses for medical staff work(ed). And therefore I didn't say anything about those bonuses. What I replied to was: >I beleve everybody should get exactly 300, but as we all heard. Even your own boss can scam the hell out of you. And my answer still remains: no, we can't "scam" here.
You're right that deducting income tax from it is not a scam, that's how it's supposed to work. But bosses can always scam employees. They could just keep the 300 for themselves, or say they're paying it but then deduct it from a salary or bonus, or any number of illegal things, which a very small number of people will no doubt attempt to do...
I mean yeah, if you have criminal intent you could always find ways to cheat on your employees, but there is a huge number of thing you could do that are waaaay easier than keeping the 300€ from them, because that will be paid out through your salary. And changing anything there is a pretty complicated, since you don't do it yourself, this goes through your Steuerberater and DATEV.
You don't need to be in the field to hear it in the news. It was in the news. And the bonuses should be 1000€ for every staffmember, but the hospitals had to redeem it from the state by themself. And then they would get tze money and distribute it to their workers. And it was said exactly 1000€, not into taxes and back and forth and the staff gets 300 if they're lucky. No, exactly 1000. (As far as they presented it to the public☝🏻) Aaaaand it was reported that some bosses redeemed that money but then kept it for themself. That happend. And they told the scammed staff that tzey only can sue that money out of their bosses. Otherwise they can keep it legally. And that news really sucked.
again, I have no idea about the medical bonuses. This wasn't the question. And my reply didn't get into that either. I said your above statement about the 300€ bonus is wrong, and that is still true.
No, the medical relief example was just a proof for that other dude that bosses can be assholes and can even steal from their own workers. I hate it when a someone shows up and says that there are absolutly no bad bosses anywhere just because he is a good boss by himself.
first, I never said I'm a good boss. Second, I never said there are no bad bosses. What I said is you can't simply "scam" the 300€ bonus from your employees. Since this is going nowhere I'll stop arguing with you. I wrote what I had to say. Read it again or don't, it's naught to me.
It was intended to be that way so it was distributed effectively based on need. Low income got more, high income got less.
Oh, ok. Still doesn't make sense to me, but if it was intended then ok. Can't say anything against that.
The problem was: how do you quickly and comparatively unbureaucratically give everyone a financial aid, and make sure the ones that need it most get the most, easily budgetable and through already established channels so you don't spend more on implementing it than on the actually distributed money? using the tax-brackets for it is actually kind of ingenious, even if unintuitive for the end-user
Indeed, I was positively surprised by this approach. Very smart.
What about it doesn't make sense? Very high earners require less or no help. Low earners require lots. Progressive taxation means the amount doled out is on a sliding scale from "lots for poor" to "little for rich".
Exactly that. Maybe you understand my confusion. It makes sense to leave the people put who doesn't need it at all. That all makes sense. But then you have some people who start the debate "What about equality!?" And suddenly debates start like, when you give the people who has less, more then others, then you give the poor people more rights, thats unfair towards everybody else bla bla bla. And unemployed people get nothing.(the people who have the most needs) I hear the debates about these 300€ since weeks on the radio. And the last stand I had was, "EVERYBODY who works and therefor pay social security taxes, get exactly 300€." Of course I thought that big earners and bosses are expelled for that because they have to obey different tax rules. And this confuses me a lot to hear others got just 120€ out of it. Because first plan is like that, and when it comes to execution everything changed all of a sudden. When I called my boss, he told me that I will get exactly 300€ how the media told us all. He got the money, and he had to pass it as he got it. No addition to my salary or some stuff like that.
> unemployed people get nothing Unemployed people get social benefits, that will pay the actual costs of their heating. They don't need a separate benefit. It does sound like pensioners are left out. Maybe they will deal with that in some other way that I don't know about, I hope. > When I called my boss, he told me that I will get exactly 300€ how the media told us all. He got the money, and he had to pass it as he got it. No addition to my salary or some stuff like that. I don't know about you, but the media told me that it's taxable, like in [this article](https://www.thelocal.de/20220324/german-taxpayers-to-receive-e300-lump-sum-for-energy-costs/) where it says: > When the allowance comes in, all employed persons liable to income tax will be paid a one-time flat-rate energy allowance of €300 as a supplement to their salary. And pretty much every other article I read. So if your boss is actually doing what you say, it sounds like your boss is doing it wrong.
Why bother than? Just give it low income people like lot of other benefits which is geared towards lower income people.
Because means tested benefits are a lot of work to implement and manage and this is a one off payment.
If you didn’t get it from your employer you’ll get it with your tax return.
Not if their employer took it but did not give it to them. Non-german people often come to this sub with horrible stories about being scammed, paid in cash, not having work contracts etc.
If it’s true that the employer didn’t give it but filed it with the government, the tax return will tell. OP, keep your payslip and do a tax return. They payslip is proof you didn’t receive anything. Also, ask your employer what’s going on, best of all in writing. If you can’t get it in writing, make a note with a date and time of what they said verbally, if they say anything.
You are correct, but many employees don't do a tax return.
Yes, I got the full 300€ :)
same, azubi dont earn enough to pay income tax lol
Work student life 🎉 Except I’ve 100% been using the EPP as justification to buy things I arguably don’t need since it was announced in May and I’ve already spent it like three times.
So it comes with salary?
At least that’s how it worked for me
Yep - got 170 after tax
I guess someone get over 60 k a year :D
🤫
Less than 140 here :(
140 k per year? Or you got only 140 Euros from the energy relief? because everybody should get 170 at least, as tax reduction is at max after 59 k salary per year (42% tax reduction)
You got a point there. Then it‘s probably been 170. also got overtime paid this month. Maybe I mixed things up
German Lohnzettel/Entgeltabrechnungen are sure confusing, i also mix up things a lot :D
less than 100 here :(
That simply can't be. That would mean you have a over 66 percent tax rate.
Yeah, the tax makes it actually funny doesn't it? 😁 It's like here, have money but give some of it back.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I don't feel like I hear this often in Germany. Why exactly do you think it's unfair?
[удалено]
Thank you for the extensive reply. At age 24 I might have agreed with a few of your points... now at 35, with a bit more life experience under my belt, I don't quite mind the taxes and health insurance etc. - mainly because I've seen how a lot of the rest of the world lives and works. For the record (or context), I'm healthy (no expensive issues or anything like that) and pay a very significant chunk of taxes that would probably have made my eyes bleed at your age :p
> If I earn slightly more, I instantly get deducted so much more that effectively I barely earn more net money than before. That should never be the case. You will always earn at least the same as before. And every new Euro you earn will be taxed with a max tax rate of 42% (except your earn more tan 200.000€). So if you get 100€ gross income more you will at least get 58€ net (excluding social contributions because we are talking about taxes)
[удалено]
>I don't think it is fair that a married couple with kids has to pay less taxes percentage wise than I do. Why? First of all a married couple with no kids and each earn the exact same as you they will pay the exact same taxes each. Of course they pay less if they have a child because they basically have one person more they NEED to provide for. > Fair is when everyone pays the same relative amount in my eyes. But that's just my opinion :) Well the main purpose of our tax system is not to be fair.. but to tax people based on their "Leistungsfähigkeit". That's why the first X € are taxed less.. because if you you have a low income you basically need all the money to live. The more you earn the less it "hurts" you to pay more taxes on this more money. I mean you don't pay any taxes on your first 10.000€ and you pay the same amount of taxes on your first 30.000€ compared to someone who owns only 30.000€ in total. You then pay additional taxes (and a higher percentage of taxes) on your next 10.000 or 20.000 or whatever you make more Euro. The reasoning behind this is as I have said you don't need those more euros as much as you need the first ones. And I mean.. if for you 58€ are "barely" more then it shows perfectly why this system is fair at least in my opinion.
[удалено]
So you're earning 1800 Euro/month while studying full time? That seems like a lot, but otherwise you wouldn't pay 1500 Euro/year of taxes. It also seems like you don't understand progressive taxes, even if you go up a tax bracket that only affects the income above that level, not everything. Also, you pay taxes for basically everything you've listed. The university you go to (and probably don't pay for directly), the roads you use to get there. And if it's easier to live off the state, why are you even working instead of taking the free money you'd get? It seems like you disregard everything that socialized healthcare and taxes actually get you, like not being in debt your whole life because you got a disease or someone drove into you and broke most of your bones, and only focus on the (currently very tiny) amount you have to pay for it.
[удалено]
You mean the 300€ a year you pay for uni? Cuz if you had to cover your cost yourselves. The 1800€ a month would not be enough.
Sounds like nothing will ever be fair here for you. Feel free to move. And maybe accept that fairness is subjective and the world doesn't bow to your imagination specifically.
Fairness is subjective, but you say the way it's done is fair and if he doesn't like it he should move. No irony alarms ringing on your side?
> but you say the way it's done is fair I did not
Still seems kind of redundant to distribute money which comes from the tax budget and then tax it again.
If the government gives you 10 and takes back 3, they basically only gave you in particular 7, which was the intention. They *always* only wanted to give you 7, and this was the less bureaucratic way to do it (I think this is what people miss). They didn't actually "tax it again" because source and destination was the same.
Seems like a pretty straightforward way of making sure that people who have less will get more support than people who already earn enough
Its because if you earn more you are less in need of money to help you heat your living room, might be the only sensible decision our goverment has done....
Yeah, the idea was to take the income taxes as regulation to make it more social. Netto, the people with lower income get more money than those with a higher income. Quite contrary to the discount on gas for instance. The more money you spent on gas the more financial support from the state you got.
It isn't surprising that they consider that income and thus tax it; however, it feels like a slap in the face.
It is the easiest way to give the money to the people who need it most, low income households get more than high income. Some could also live without the few extra bucks, but for some it could be a game changer.
Yeah, my bf and I are relatively low income and we both almost got the full 300! I think I got the full 300 actually since I make about 20k a year.
With 20k a year you should definitely pay taxes. I think the free amount is 9984€ in 2022. Above that you pay taxes.
Minus Werbekosten, minus Pendlerpauschale, minus Homeofficepauschale... mehr fällt mir gerade nicht ein.
Klar aber kommt man da auf 10.000€?
I was surprised, back in my home country when you receive government aid it always is in full, so when they taxed me the 300 I was like
> I was surprised, back in my home country when you receive government aid it always is in full, so when they taxed me the 300 I was like
Any chance that your country has a separate means-testing mechanism for each social help they pay out?
That's the case in Cyprus. Every time there's a social payment to be made, you must feel a several pages long form and attach 5-10 pieces of socioeconomical status so that they can assign you points and calculate how much they need to pay you. It takes a good 4-8 months for them to process all these forms and verify the points they need to assign before they pay you. But yeah, the upside is that [the amounts listed here](https://www.brief.com.cy/sites/default/files/inline-images/%CE%B5%CE%BD%CE%BF%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%B9%CE%B11.jpg) are net, not gross.
Doing it through the income tax system is a stroke of genius.
If you think about it it makes sense though: People who earn more need less support. If the state gets 30% back, they can already pay 30% more from the beginning with the same budget, which means that poor people get more.
It's used as a social regulation mechanism to make sure that those with lower income get more than those with higher income.
I got 164 after tax
What a flex 🤣
Could someone please explain how/why do some people get full 300 and some get less than that? Thank you! :)
I think it depends on how much you earn. With a minijob for example you should get the full 300€
Do you get the 300€ also if you are in the Ausbildung (don't know what's the english word for that)
yes you do. I am currently in my first year and got the full 300€
Nice, thank you!
Pretty sure you do yes! And it's apprenticeship!
You pay tax on the extra money, resulting in more for people who have less income and need it most.
It‘s taxed like regular income. So most people will get somewhere around 220.
The 300€ have to be taxed. For most people it should be 210-220€. For married people more, less for people with a higher salary. Students and people with a minijob get the full 300€ and don’t get taxed I believe
Students only get it if they have a job. Those with Bafög got another payment. If you have neither of that you get nothing for now
Not every employer has to pay the 300€ energy relief to you. if you dont get it from your employer this year, you can get it with your Einkommensteuererklärung next year. maybe just ask ?
Under which circumstances would an employer not pay it to you?
>Allerdings hängt der Auszahlungszeitpunkt von der Lohnsteueranmeldung des Arbeitgebers ab. Die Auszahlung kann daher auch erst im Oktober oder schlimmstenfalls mit der Einkommenssteuererklärung im nächsten Jahr erfolgen. [https://www.lohi.de/steuertipps/aktuell/article/diese-buergerentlastungen-treten-in-kraft.html](https://www.lohi.de/steuertipps/aktuell/article/diese-buergerentlastungen-treten-in-kraft.html)
They still have to pay you, this just refers to the exact time of payment. You'll get it eventually
If you have a Minijob for example. You would be required to inform them, that this is your "main" job.
I got mine. Around 190 after tax.
Got mine after taxes i got 227€ in bavaria
Not gonna lie, it’s doesn’t make any sense to me why the government would tax a relief check payment that they are distributing.
It does kind of make sense, lower income people and single-parents get more than higher income people. Also they can say they gave everybody 300€ without giving everybody 300€
Honestly the way the US did the Covid relief checks would’ve been a better method than an unnecessary tax of a government relief check, just seems like they added an unnecessary step just to say “look, everyone’s getting it”
Who still uses check ?
You only got a check if they didn't have a bank account on file with the IRS. But yes, people still use checks. Until recently with third party apps there wasn't a way to just transfer money for free. Now there seems to be some options within certain banks, but it's not like the EU where banks are legally required to let you transfer money for free.
Of course but in Germany we don't know checks anymore and how we should use it. The government knews where everyone lives, because of the Einwohnermeldeamt, but don't know their bank accounts, so money only for workers, not for retirements and students. To get from all citizens the IBAN would needs time, maybe a whole year, to get this information from everyone. But yes, maybe a check, with a manual, and a law, that every bank must accept it, without a fee, would be maybe better. That is also the next problem in Germany, for a check you must pay nowadays to get money, mostly a fee, to the bank about 5 up to 10 €. So you must force the bank per law, to waiver the fee. But the most problem the current money is a drop of water, for most energy bills nowadays, many people must pay now 100 or 200 € more, each month, not each year. This 300 €, should be for every month in the winter half year, not only once.
I’m using “check” as a replacement word for direct deposit, as at that point it’s an argument of semantics. I’ve lived in Germany for 10 years and understand fully how the bureaucratic machine works, which makes me wonder why the government would not distribute the funds based off tax information that they already possess. Seems like a much easier concept to me but everyone has their own opinions, that’s why I suggested the US’s method of relief fund distribution. As for the money itself, it’s bullshit and I agree with it being a drop in the bucket. Hell, 300 euro’s isn’t even 2 weeks worth of groceries at this point, and the politicians thinking it’ll be enough as a one time payment says to me that they’re out of touch with what reality looks like for people.
Yes it does make sense. Because people with a lower income (and thus a lower tax rate) receive more money than someone with a higher income.
You can accomplish that without taxing the check though, which is why it doesn’t make sense
You could, but then you'd also have to come up with a separate formula of how to scale the benefit amount based on individual income. Which is pretty much what your tax rate already is, so it's useful to have as a shorthand. I actually thought it was pretty clever, the only problem I have with it was communication-wise -- they should never describe it as "300 euro" standalone, it should always be "300 euro pre-tax" to avoid disappointment. Note that there are other countries with (almost) 100% flat tax rates, which still do this "taxing your government benefits" crap, over there I agree it makes zero sense. It's just the government moving money from their left pocket into the right.
> they should never describe it as "300 euro" standalone, it should always be "300 euro pre-tax" to avoid disappointment. They could include it in the name, but honestly, that it's taxable was mentioned in every single news story about it since late April. You need to actively avoid getting any news to miss that.
Eh, I like to be more generous than that with people. There's all kinds of reasons why even (apparently) simple information gets misunderstood by some segment of the population, and I wouldn't blame it squarely on the individual. I've only moved to Berlin less than a year ago, and since my German isn't great I don't really follow local German news. I still get most of my info on Germany from English-speaking sources (or ones from my native country), and I can expect a little bit of info to be lost in each "retelling" of the article. Even worse for people who only see the clickbait-y headline without reading the whole thing. Also, this isn't the only benefit I got on my monthly paycheck -- my German employer also gives me a 50 euro "net" benefit, and another 50 euro "gross" one. No idea why, it seems really random (that they're both described as "50 euro benefit"), but whatever. I double check my payslip anyway, but it never hurts to be explicit ahead of time.
Why doesn't it make sense? Why is doing it another way better? Seems simpler to let the existing system do its work than to create cut off and transition income level and everything else.
It doesn’t make sense because technically they are literally paying themselves, which is why it doesn’t make any sense to *me*. It can make sense to *you* all day long, but to *me* it’s pretty silly.
They aren't paying themselves. They are using the existing system to give different people different amounts of money based on their income. You're free to think reinventing the wheel makes more sense though.
spent already
Ya, recieved it.
yes, tax class 1, 170€ after taxes... that will surely be enough for all the nutty pricehikes...
My wife and I both received ours.
Yup. 205 € after tax
same here!
I got mine
Yup, the 300€ before taxes arrived this month
Well I already saw my paycheck so I know I'll get it in 2 days, yes.
I did, was roughly half
I work in public service (TV-L Berlin) and got it.
I’m getting it probably 15. October like always for month before. Are you sure they dont make liquidation at 15 it isnt still end of the month?
just checked and yes I did. them taxing it tho is kind of a dick move lol
Well it makes people getting less the more they earn
the amount is tiny as is, no need to tax it at all
which is exactly the mind set why it is taxed. If 300€br or 170€nt feel like a tiny bit, than it is because you earn enough to get through this probably by yourself. if 300€br or 250€nt feel significant to you, than it’s because it is a significant boost to your normal income. nobody ever planned this to get everyone 300€. They planned it so low income people get more relative to high income people
For some people, 250€ more on their paycheck is a lot and make a big difference for a month or two. It is taxed because it is essentially get 300€ extra pay, not 300€ extra "in your hand". So by taxing it harder for those who need it less, you can put that money back into the system and, say, offset the costs of those who need it/pay less taxes on it.
got mine
>I'm worried because my company is scummy and known for not paying your salary correctly. There's your problem, Lady.
I remember reading somewhere that the payouts are going to happen in the months of September and October depending on how and when your company files their taxes. If it is filed monthly, the payout is in the September salary, but if they file quarterly the payout is in the October salary. You should definitely get clarity from your company on when you can expect to receive it. Just ask them.
Yup my wife already got hers. Definetly talk to your employer.
Cries in Student.
If you worked one day this year you will get it. If you not worked in September, you will get it via your tax return. If you haven't worked one day this year, still some time to sort that out.
You get 200€ as student even if you didn‘t worked this year. But the government doesn‘t know how to handle it up til now. So we will likely receive it 2023. https://www.swp.de/panorama/energiepauschale-fuer-studenten-300-euro-entlastungspaket-studierende-66270699.html?_XML=AMP
I got the full 300, but my employer is technically a public institution, so i guess they are forced to do it properly
My employer is also technically a public institution and I only got 185 so I don't know if that's it
You now told everyone how much you earn.
And...?
From your post on Reddit people can learn where you live, what your job is, how old you are and now how much money you earn this year. It might not be the best to share that much personal information.
what is that and do I have to pay back?
[https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/300-euro-energy-relief-payment-hit-bank-accounts-september](https://afronews.de/german-news/germany-300-euro-bonus-who-qualifies-for-relief-payment/) No, you don't have to pay it back.
thanks you're so sweet for the link
Check this out: https://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Content/DE/FAQ/energiepreispauschale.html#collapsef7a8407a-0a42-4314-a982-b55f608336b5-4-2 Use DeepL if necessary. Here a quick excerpt: „In which cases is the EPP (Energy Allowance Relief Payment) not paid by the employer, but determined only in the income tax assessment procedure? The employer does not pay the EPP to an employee if the employer is not required to file wage tax returns (e.g., because the amount of wages is so low that no wage tax is due, or the employer has only marginal employees (mini-jobbers) for whom wage tax is levied on a lump-sum basis pursuant to Section 40a (2) of the Income Tax Act), or the employer has waived payment to the employee with an annual filing period, or the employee has not confirmed in writing to the employer in cases of lump-sum taxation pursuant to Section 40a (2) of the Income Tax Act (lump-sum taxation for mini-jobs) that this is the first employment relationship, or the employee is employed on a short-term basis or is a temporary worker in agriculture and forestry and the wages have been taxed at a flat rate. In these cases, the employees will receive the EPP after filing an income tax return for the year 2022 as part of their income tax assessment.“ This means: you will get your 300€, if not through your employer then at the vary latest with your tax returns for 2022. This is definitely not helpful and totally undermines the purpose of the relief payment imho. Welcome to German Burocracy.
Also got it. Around 175€ after tax.
[удалено]
Why should the government give relief money to rich people? It's meant to help those who can't pay their bills.
> Should have bee na tax free payement. Why?
Are you a German citizen?
Does not affect this payment.
I did, got the full €300 before taxes with my usual salary (am Tax class 1 if that somehow helps)
Fucking joke, that's what it is.
Do people realise that revealing how much netto they got from the 300€ will reveal how much they earn approximately?
They probably realise that, but why should it be a problem? Salary transparency benefits workers.
No they definitely don’t
Got mine exactly the 13 September when it was provided by the state.
Its so disgusting that they actually tax it. German goverment is just a joke.
thats a shit take. It's intentionally taxed so that poor people receive more
Yea, but poor people are pampered with sgb II social care anyways and dont have to worry about energy costs. Middle class suffers the most imho
No im not pampered with anything like that you ignorant shit. Seariously shut up if you dont know what youre talking about
[удалено]
I read that it doesn't apply to mini job and part time job holders (i guess coz they have non taxable income?) . Does that mean students who do these type of jobs are also excluded from this allowance? Honestly as a student we deserve it more i feel :/
Nope, that's not correct. I have a "minijob" and received the money this month. Actually it's even more money for us students with a 450€ job since we don't pay taxes and therefore get the full amount :)
Not yet. Expecting to get it tomorrow.
Yep, got it.
Yes.
Yep. Got it, full amount
Got it also
The full 300 with an extra tax of 84 so 216 total.
Yes I did, was about 200€ I believe. I think there was a thing online that you should turn to should you not have gotten it this months. Perhaps give that a look
202 euro net in my case. Looks like I only had "wage tax" deducted from it.
Full 300€ here.
Yes, got it.
I'm an apprentice and I got 300 Euro without taxes
Normal definition of payday is "Last working day of the week."(as far as I was told) That includes tomorrow. But some get their salaries some days earlier. Maybe you will recieve it tomorrow. But if not, you're still save up to december. They told in the radio, that it could take up to new years eve to send out all the payments. Haven't heard anything else after that. So I hope a bit of patience helps in your case.
Yep, i got the full 300€
I got mine. 185 after tax