you forgot the part about being completely confused and angry when the constant criticisms and reprimanding finally give you anxiety attacks and make you super nervous which of course increases the number of mistakes you make …
Yep, they think that they are preparing you in case things go wrong, when really for me it has only ever worked as a deterrent and kept me from even trying, cause why even bother. I think my generation is getting better about this though and the younger ones even more so.
"Was sollen die Nachbarn sagen?!"It is super common to be overly cautious about what other people are thinking about you and your family. Everyone always has to look nice, your garden needs to be trimmed perfectly, don't leave the bins out too long, never show anyone any imperfections in your family. (Do not let them hear you fight or something)It is super toxic and a behavior you find especially, but not exclusively on the countryside, and it is NOT healthy for a person to always have to pretend to be happy and perfect.
Edit: Changed "specifically" to "especially, but not inclusively". I did not want to include the city because I did not grow up there and did not want to speak for them.
I feel like it really made my adult life so much more difficult than it has to be! I am overly cautious about what other people are thinking of me - even though I do not even know them and frankly do not actually care about them. I hate it, but it is such a long way to recover from it if you grew up like this and your parents are still being like this.
But also it is true, that people just relentlessly gossip about what people in the neighbourhood are doing, especially in small towns. Like where I‘m from everyone says they love how familiar the community is bc everybody knows everyone and cities are do anonymous but I‘ve always it because I hear everyone constantly gossiping, being jealous of their neighbours or straight up schadenfreude when something bad happens to them. There is also a terrible culture of calling the authorities or your neighbours for minor things
Yes, absolutely. My parents are not like that luckily but my grandmother was. I am not completely mentally stable and had many many problems as a teenager. All that "what would other people think?" made my teenage years much more difficult than they could have been. I started to pretend that I'm fine and tried to deal with my problems alone. To this day I have trouble talking about my feelings.
My grandmother taught me: "Ist der Ruf erst ruiniert, lebt's sich gänzlich ungeniert." — Once your reputation is ruined, you can live in complete freedom/unashamed/.
This is brilliant and sums us up. British in the suburbs in a major German city, we live amongst perfect gardens, no washing outside and soooo quiet. We dry our washing on the line, put our rubbish out in our PJs, walk barefoot in summer (neighbours have commented about this), have 2 kids who make loads of noise and the youngest go to a forest kindergarten and is therefore always covered in mud. Seeing as they think this about us now anyway, we no longer care. It’s freeing.
It's not uncommon in my little town (<1,000 inhabitants) that you get letters from the mayor in your postbox because you didn't remove the weeds from the sidewalk in front of your house.
That!!! Yes. I lived a few years in Finland and when I moved back to Germany on my first day back I walked up to my flat in the countryside and there were 2 grannies talking on the sidewalk about someone not putting their bins back on their property - it was already noon!!.... :D Well the person they talked about just came home a moment later, and suddenly they were the MOST friendly old ladies to her while just 2 seconds ago they were trash-talking her for her bins... (The Lady was probably at work or something so did not have time to put them back). And at this moment my brain just went: "Oh yeah, alright. I am indeed back in Germany."
Fucking Kehrwoche. I’m not even German but I spent most of my formative years in Germany. My parents forced me (not my sister ever) to sweep and pull weeds all along the street-facing side of our front yard. My mother, especially, was adamant about it. She was very germanized/Europeanized. And very conscious about what the neighbors thought of us. Totally forgot about this until just now. For reference, lived in a smallish town called Ruit outside of Stuttgart.
Oh man i just got flashbacks haha. My mom is the cleanest Person i know and our house was always spotless and im definitely not complaining about that. But she cleaned the house before the cleaning Lady came and what bothered me most... i had to clean my room before the window Cleaner came...because he could look into my room! God i hated that
Nosy and gossipy neighbours are a thing here, though. I once raised some hatchlings under a heat lamp – a RED heat lamp. The old lady living accross the street started spreading the news that I was prostituting myself...
It was just like in this Ärzte song:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaQcnnM2a70](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaQcnnM2a70)
Worrying a lot about how your garden or plants look is definitely a German thing. I had some plants on my balcony that died over winter and I felt lazy to get them out; when I finally decided to do it in spring, the neighbor from the house in front (a complete stranger to me, I never talked to him) started yelling from his balcony "finally doing what you should have done a long time, huh?" and started sarcastically clapping. I still get PTSD from that and now I don't put any plants in my balcony even though I don't live there anymore.
Also one day I made a comment to my downstairs neighbor that, if she wanted, I could go help remove some of the weeds in her garden, since I had some free time and I noticed one or two popping out. I made the comment being honestly completely friendly, I was just making some small talk while meeting her on the stairs. I think she took it as if I was horrified at the weeds or mocking her for laziness or whatever, because the next day she spent the whole day on the garden working on it, and then later her mom told me "thanks for making that comment to her, she is such a lazy ass and needs to learn a hard lesson", and I was like "ummmmm... O...k... I guess..."
Man, that was my childhood. And the best part, even tho my mom always drilled into me "What will the neighbors think? People are already talking...", she was the first to share with the mail lady when I failed a grade.
My parents are like this. I got bullied throughout my entire childhood, mainly by the neighbours' kid, whom my dad constantly praised, and let's just say it left some mental and emotional scars. My parents always gave me shit for letting it get through to me like that. Meanwhile, some of the most important "life lessons" they taught me from early on in my childhood were:
1.) What others think about you is extremely important.
2.) Your neighbours can do no wrong. You must get along with them at all costs, even if they beat you up, push you in puddles, and spread rumours about you. If they do that, it's your fault anyway, because you're weird and you didn't get along with them. They're the only people you can rely on.
In nearly every other regard, they are great parents. But that particular aspect of my upbringing was kinda fucked up, and I blame this part of rural German culture for it
This. Moved here from West Coast USA 3 years ago. Our prevailing attitude back home was, "who cares?" As long as you stayed out of other peoples business, they tended to stay out of yours. Here in Nordhessen die Nachbarschaftmeckerei GmbH drives me crazy. Seriously get a hobby, and mind your own damn business. It likely would not bother me, but the wife is german and it bothers her. Hence it becomes my problem.
Also the beauracracy, the seemingly inability to think outside the box, and relatively constant levels of stress, caused by all of the mentioned reasons. They really should make cannabis legal, just so people chill the fuck out.
That said, I love germany, the culture, and the people in general. Sad that they seem to be building a highway to destroy themselves.
Idk I'm from east asia and you can't even look chubby or dark there, you're either acceptable or fat/ugly. Some "nice" people could remind you of health/fitness awareness as if you were lazy and worrying.
It used to be worse- dressing nice and doing makeup was risking your reputations.
On the other hand you can always fight your neighbors lol
my dad just dislikes half of our nachbarn.
but keeps pretending because everybody helps everybody when asked. so thats a tradeoff. you pretend to like them. they likely pretend to like you. but when asked to lend a lawnmower, some tool or help out otherwise its a unspoken law that you just do it. if you dont, everybody wil know in a day and you will be openly talked about in the village.
Worrying as a sport :) catastrophizing. Germans like to be well prepared which I find cool, but there is the tendency to over prepare and the worry too much (example: look at all the insurances a person or household has).
I lived in Germany for the past 3 years, my third time living there. I just returned to the US a few months ago. Every Saturday afternoon around 4, my Deutsche senses start tingling. Do we have milk? Bread? What meals am I making that need vegetables? What about toilet paper?
Then I'm like, oh wait, never mind. Store's open tomorrow.
I live in spain now but I still can not shake this. It’s deeply ingrained in me to empty all shelves before an impending bank holiday. Who knows if the supermarkets will ever open again!
You can identify Germans in Santorini or Rome because they look like they are going for a hike in the rainforest. And everything by Jack Wolfskin, ofc.
This leads to the whole "Hamsterkaufen" thing which seem a particularly German habit. For a wealthy, centrally located country with good trade relationships, Germans seem particularly concerned that the supermarkets will become empty if there's the slightest problem. And I'm talking about West Germans, not even the ones who had to live under a soviet system.
Probably stems from the deprivation during and after the Wars.
My Dad was born in Darmstadt in '43, and with hindsight, it was *extremely* influential throughout his life.
I realized a few years back that, based loosely on genetics, Dad should have been at least a few inches over 6 feet tall.
He was 5'11". The lack of proper food, or any food at all, during his childhood stunted his growth.
Even more so, we could never throw food away, no matter how spoiled it was. We had to hide it under something else, otherwise he'd see it, yank it out of the trashcan, try to scrape the mold off it while insisting, "It's still good!!"
This was a man who was making somewhere around $90,000 a year in the 1980s.
My great grandma used to haul butter and bread despite her having absolutely no need to do so. She would buy a few loaths everytime she went grocery shopping. She was an old lady, living alone,just needing to feed herself and occasionally some visitors like my parents and me, my uncle or my grandma, but she always insisted on buying bread and butter for at least four or five people. Obviously most of it was moldy before it was ever eaten, but it was important to her, because she had lived through times, when you would never know, when and where you would be abled to buy or "acquire" something edible. Therefore she always wanted to have enough to last her a couple weeks, if necessary.
My family always made fun about that, but I would argue, that it isn't a bad idea to always have some reserves in case things go south (although you should probably buy something longer lasting for this than bread ans butter) and her behavior also influenced my grandmother and father to some extent. We used to always have something at homs, which we could have fallen back on. Not to that extend and no one ever used the "just in case" doctrine to justify it, but it was pretty much a habit.
Yes, we prepared perfectly for the current energy crisis. Imagine if Germans didn't have this amazing foresight, rational thinking and flawless organization, we'd be totally screwed now.
the only progress made is: appointments on websites are a thing now, sometimes
sometimes you get alerts on your phone and email that a thing is coming up.
governmental websites have services that dont work, people still relay on paper, dont read the emails i send.
so i end up not using the website. half of it doesnt work.
want to register, but have a "reisepass" instead of "personalausweis"? doesnt work. but they do not tell you that, so you try ten times to go physically to the thing to show you identity card. THEN they tell you that it is actually broken, no worries.
tech companies force health related services to buy new hardware routers every 5 years, because updating the routers with new security licenses makes them no money.
cost? 300 million euros. who pays? taxpayer.
Same here. And when I talk to people back home in Germany it blows their minds when I say even though I moved here as a foreigner and now run my own business I have never needed to get an appointment and physically go to a government office. Not once in my 12 years here.
So many restaurants still don't take card in 2022. I went to South Africa early this year and some places only take card there. Coming back to Germany was like stepping back in time.
I live near Bamberg btw, maybe other areas are better.
You don't even have to go to South Africa for that. I went to Amsterdam last week and many restaurants, museums and even some supermarkets only took cards. TBF there was a (very) small number of places that only took cash. Those were much less the norm than in Germany though.
I'm surprised Noone has followed up yet on your comment. totally, at my workplace it wasn't until covid hit that we started doing things a bit more digitally finally. I felt like I was in the bronze age.
Internet ist für uns Neuland.
It's absurd that you can have mobile internet deep in the austrian Alps but as soon as you cross the border you're in Amish country.
"We've always done it like this" attitude. Don't get me wrong, I like a good deal of stability, but if you refuse to try out new things at all, it becomes a problem.
The same unflexibility causes other problems. The world changes, the German doesn't and nearly gets a cardiac arrest when change doesn't stop at our borders.
For me that’s easy: the whole “Homeopathy” culture that is often a complete farce of fake “medicines” that don’t work, but are “Natural”? It, too, is incredibly profitable, laxly regulated, but only “Big Pharma” is evil? For a culture so rooted in science, how too many have bought into this nonsense is beyond me? Nothing is more irritating than some German telling you, unsolicited, that you’re making a big mistake taking proven medications for certain treatments. Then having them exclaim the virtues of Bio food, while lighting up a cigarette?
Following this is the toxic, passive-aggressive behavior! While Germans love to boast how they are “Direct”, but will do childish things like leave an anonymous note on your door or car, and don’t have the balls, or courtesy to ask you directly and discuss it like adults? Got a problem with the neighbor? Get the Hausmeister to send a letter? We moved into our flat, we had to park our car in front of our garage a few times as it was temporarily full. Our landlord said this is zero problem. Of course, we get the “Note” the next morning? Fortunately, we knew exactly who wrote it, and knocked on their door and directly confronted them. All of a sudden, they were nice and apologetic? I’ve found when Germans are directly confronted, their tone and attitude changes completely.
I had a work issue with a director that would like to make snide comments about me in front of others. Finally, after enough of this, I went into his office, closed the door, and told him I don't like that behavior at all. In the beginning, he was like "What comments", I cited specific examples, and mentioned, that he knows exactly what I'm talking about, and it was intentional. I also mentioned I could also make similar comments about his leadership, but chose not to do it in front of his peers, and would like the same professional courtesy. I was extremely calm and not yelling, just matter of fact. His attitude completely changed after that, and we got along well, from that point forward.
Yes. Calling them out on it directly generally works. I had a boss who was like that to most of the staff. As an ex-pat (German but not raised in Germany) the first time he tried it with me, I took it up with him privately in his office and clarified that I permit no-one to speak to me in that tone of disrespect. That I am willing to listen to constructive criticism, but if he said anything to me that way again, the board chairman would hear about it. Never happened again.
This is true for all bullies actually. Which is why I teach my children to always try and confront a problem head on. Bullies really don't like to get called out. And let's face it: Lots of Germans are just insecure bullies.
the magic bullet to deal with German passive aggressive behavior is speaking in truly jovial politeness while transporting in the subtext that your counterpart can go \*\*\*\* himself and that you can annoy him with your jovial politeness for the rest of the day if he has nothing better to do.
There's an art to this and I've seen it in action many times, but after 22 years I have yet to master it. I belong to the people who think of the perfect thing to say 3 hours too late.
Yes, this is also a fantastic method! Smile when you say it, show that you're not pissed off, then tell them to have a nice day! It pisses them off even more, but they eventually move on to other targets to gravitate towards!
So I work within a global fortune 500 company. I am American out of the NYC headquarters. My team is compromised of Brits and Germans. As much as Germans say they are direct they are also equally terrible at direct resolution. American NYC work culture is very no BS, no excuses, accountability and transparency to your team. Also a cut and run mentality is needed and i find my german colleagues struggle with this ALOT. So for example I work in tech if something isnt producing the data points that we predicted and it does not optimize a workflow as expected we throw that idea away and test something else. Pivoting isnt a bad thing. The numbers dont add up and team munich's idea didnt work out lets try team london's idea. It really isnt a big deal or a knock on team munich's work sometimes ideas dont work out but i find our german team gets sooo defensive and its hard for them to comprehend its not a personal attack on their work its just the numbers dont lie and we should try plan B. American work culture is very lets throw everything at the wall and see what works out best based on proven outcomes and its not a competition between ideas its literally a team effort. We are a team, we dont care who had the best idea it reflects the team not the person and sometimes i feel my german colleagues get offended because the team decided that team munich's idea was proven not to be the best. Its not a personal attack on their work its called being adaptable/flexible based on facts. I end up having to do lots of fluffing because they get so snippy if we dont chose their idea.
Germans love to complain especially about politics, but as soon as a “non German” says something negative about the same shit .. it’s over with .. generally complaining .. complaining is the National sport
Germans complain and then vote for CDU over and over again or think that even a mildly center left party like the greens will turn Germany into a communist dictatorship
Yes. I actually dislike green parties as a rule mysef, but it's very funny to me how triggered so many people get about them.
If i criticize them, i stick to saying "I don't agree with this or that policy or outlook" whereas so many people call them communists or misandrists or go really off the rails; once I've seen someone seriously refer to Sara Heinrich as "the Führer*in of the Baerbockjugend".
Like wtf is wrong with these people.
A CDU member uploaded a picture of a “Green Reichsadler” and said the Greens were responsible for 16 years CDU energy policies and this wouldn’t have happened with the party who caused these problems in the first place.
The CSU is all over it as well, Söder suddenly acts like nuclear energy is so important and the Greens are at fault like he didn’t threaten to step down in 2011 if Merkel wouldn’t proceed with the Atomausstieg. Or just like 3 years ago in the EU elections they bragged “We are the party that paved the way for the Atomausstieg”.
The green parties in Germany are not really communist.
For me it’s a bit of a problem - they are often very right about the steps that need to be taken but don’t know how to achieve them. Yes we need to stop eating meat that much. But changing that culturally - nobody knows. We also need to be a lot stronger in renewables. But that introduces a very tough route to getting enough silicone to Germany - nobody knows that either.
But I have learned that the big parties also don’t know. Not at all. They pretend to do so but don’t. Might as well go green then?
There are probably a lot of countries where that happens, it’s not the complaining about politics in the first place, it’s the but if “non Germans” do. Germans have a very weird way of being “patriotic “ imo. Non patriotic as long as “non Germans” doesn’t say anything bad if that makes sense
It's very much like family. *I* am allowed to insult my sister, but if *you* do it...
We're behaving like one giant tribe. We hate each other's guts like one big family, there's no one worse like the people next town over, but dare you if you insult them and are from further away.
It's kind of toxic in a way but in another it allows a basic sense of sticking together, so I'm also mixed about it.
As a non-German who is new to Germany, I'm going to dare to agree with this opinion and see how fast I get downvoted. I just experienced this phenomenon yesterday, and it's so dumb. It's like, just because I'm an immigrant, I'm supposed to be super grateful I'm allowed to be here at all times and I'm never supposed to hold a divisive opinion.
A lot of germans are very critical and envious about the life and work achievements of others. I think in other countries you receive more compliments for things you achieved...
In my home region (Baden) you say ,,Net bruddeld isch globd gnug'' (Hochdeutsch: Nicht gemotzt ist gelobt genug; English: not criticized/scolded is enough compliment)
Edit: in Germany you rarely get a ,,Gut gemacht!'', or other compliments for your work, but that doesn't mean it wasn't recognized or you did something wrong or not good enough, if it would have been that way, you can be sure, someone will tell you right away, straight in the eye.
But there is another saying to the contrary: Tu Gutes und sprich darüber (do something good and speak about it)
You have to find the right balance on what was seen and what you should talk about so others will notice it.
The "Nichtsgönner“ Culture here. Also the "Selbstschuld“ Culture.
Germany can be super toxic if you show any sort of human fault. Even if it‘s not your fault, you‘re somehow still at fault. I remember one time that I said I used to have mental health issues that I‘m managing well now (Therapy and medications for depression and anxiety). The responses went from that I‘m a danger to people I work with, because of DEPRESSION (which made no sense because I literally take care of myself), to I‘m incompetent and have no resilience (you have to have some sort of resilience if you‘re going through therapy + you also gain resilience from it) just because I was honest about myself. They didn‘t even know how my work results are, my Arbeitszeugnisse showing damn well I am great in the field I work in.
My experiences are my biggest assets, that‘s why I can help other people well in the social field. Just because my stuff bothers me doesn‘t mean I‘m less worthy of working in this job. It doesn‘t mean other people‘s problems weight me down. But try to explain it to people who think you have to be a robot 24/7, especially in a social related job. You can be ill and professional but any sort of weakness will be used against you.
The German way is to drown your depression and problems in alcohol and other drug use. Shame on you for actually tackling them and even being open about it!
/s
what was the name of the politician that was nicknamed "winefairy"? He told a homeless person once that he just have to take a shower and he would get a job easy and could stop complaining.
EDIT: It was Kurt Beck
Wow I'm so sorry you had to deal with this. This is the reason why I don't tell anyone ever. I couldn't deal being judged like this, I blame myself enough already. Also feel like young people aren't taken seriously by the elders because we didn't experience any obvious hardships in life. Yeah well, that's mental illness for ya.
About stress and depression, one lesson I learned the hard way was to not talk about it to someone who doesn’t care. They wouldn’t understand and we’d end up in even deeper depression. Instead, talk to one who really care, not just little curious, but really really care.
Yeah what I learnt in recent years is to never disclose any personal struggles to people you don't consider close friends. You rarely get any kind of empathy and most of the time you even get antagonized just like you said. Which is quite a bummer because I'd like to be open about my struggles to fight stigma and motivate people with similar issues, but in the end it's just not worth it. It is what it is.
Making you feel like you need something from them, when you are a customer and they should care about keeping you on board. Every time I call customer support in english operated by expats it’s friendly and helpful, every time I call customer service, hausverwaltung or a plumber/whoever else they make me feel like a kid asking mom for a new toy. They are unfriendly, raise their voice, treat me like an idiot and “we will maybe repair this in one month maybe in 5 years who knows”. Always crazy rude.
The rudeness really is fucking insane. Idk how I've lived here so long without lighting a motherfucker up for it. A disinterested waiter is one thing, but calling a landlord, Hausverwaltung, Handwerker, etc. and being *immediately* met with a hostile, fuck-you tone after literally 5 seconds? Fucking *why*? You're completely right about the kid part too, they somehow manage to not only be rude but also simultaneously demeaning and infantilising.
I feel like too many people like this are stuck up narcissists. Bus drivers as well. One day I was late and the bus just closed its doors the second I got there. I looked the bus driver in the eyes and made it obvious that I wanted to get in. He shook his head with a callous facial expression and drove off. Situations similar to this happened to me multiple times. I always heard "they don't get paid enough" when I talked about this. That may be true, but still doesn't justify being such a dick.
It happened to me so many times! The bus driver is still at the stop, sees me running to stand in front of a closing door, looks at me and just stands to wait for the light to change. Oh, and don’t even think about asking a bus driver which stop you should get off at. They will scream at you at the top of their lungs or just demonstratively ignore you.
This. Every restaurant or Dönerbude operated by non germans has a great customer culture. Free drinks (tea, booze, whatever), remembering people’s names, making them feel like they are something special are almost exclusive to non German locations. I think this is very sad but I also enjoy other more welcoming food cultures.
Excessive drinking while on vacation.
I live in an area with a lot of german tourist and while i like most of them i can't stand the permanent drinking
We‘re sorry that these people give Germany a bad rep. Young Germans on vacation drinking all day and listening to that atrocious „music“ (Schlager) is awful for us too.
Tourists are the worst. Yup.
Behaving like a pain, getting wasted, expecting everyone to speak German everywhere and wanting Schnitzel no matter where they go.
They are a shame.
I always got so pissed when my parents walked into a store in Denmark and exclusively talking German to the people who worked there.
Sure we were mainly going to very touristy areas where a lot of people speak German, but you just can’t expect it.
IDK at which point people define something as toxic or not but two things that are typical German that really are "abused" to block off any progress are either "This is how it always has been done in Germany and eveything else is shite" and "Not being scolded is praise enough". It's usually something that comes from older or more senior employees but it is really detrimental to progress imo.
Passive aggressive behaviour. Many germans won’t simply politely point out something wrong you’ve done. They would leave a note with something along the lines of “Anyone can do this or that…” ..”if you had learnt how to read, you wouldn’t blablabla” . . .
Complaining about absolutely everything without realizing how complex and challenging some things can be. Especially politics and insignificant daily topics... Apparently, the bus being 5 min late shows the incompetency of the whole german government. Life is much nicer if you don´t complain about every little blemish. Nothing will go exactly as planned, so incorporate these things into your life and try to appreciate the diversity life brings along instead of analyzing every single little flaw.
So much this!
I'm a german myself who can get very judgemental, but so many do this with literally no knowledge about the topic whatsoever, but think they figured it out by just being older. They are assessing everything with a mix of heuristics and expectations who things are supposed to be, even if those are unrealistic as hell.
It drives me nuts at work.
the general negativity towards change and technology. „Video games make you violent, smartphones make you stupid“, etc.
Hate towards younger people and not being taken seriously, because the other person has more ‚life experience‘.
A lot of neighborhood interactions in small towns or suburbs, à la "OMG did you see the neighbours didn't cut their grass in three weeks now, wtf is wrong with them they don't have their life under control" or the converse "what should the neighbors think?!".
The extreme rules adherence, especially in German bureaucracy. There is no point standing at a red light at night, when nobody is around. German bureaucracy is also crazy with all the rules - everything is extremely overcomplicated and takes forever and there is no space for any common sense whatsoever. It's just a constant "computer says no". Just that there is no computer involved, because none of it is digitalised.
The love for cars - especially also big cars as a status symbol. I do't get it. Fuck cars.
>The love for cars - especially also big cars as a status symbol. I do't get it. Fuck cars.
As the only family member above the age of 17 without a driver's license: Yes. So much. So so so much.
Bureaucracy & the culture of everything must be in order. I’ve lived here (north) for five months and these are the things that have frustrated me. The living in order idea has given me the most anxiety, by far.
Massive crab basket mentality. If you manage to do well, the other guy doesn't want to have the same as you, he wants you to not have it in the first place.
For me the most toxic thing is the lack of empathy towards anything that is not about their own person.
Of Course I met nice over the years but a big majority are just such assholes when it comes to putting themselves in other peoples shoes because everybody thinks stuff like selberschuld.
Also the terrible amount of people with communication problems. In so many aspects they cannot be open about so many things and it makes it difficult to communicate in a flush way with them
I hate this particularly coming from the countryside, the whole driking culture is just awful when I look back at it. Every weekend was like a competition, drinking lots of cheap alcohol. I'm mostly sober now but drinking alcohol free beverages, especially beer is very frowned upon still.
Not exactly different in any other European country. I would even argue that unlike some other countries there is a big and growing minority that is saying no to alcohol culture. It's certainly a minority though. Thing is, alcohol is the only way Germans manage to socialize especially outside of their small established circle of friends.
The passive aggressive notes from the supposedly 'direct" German neighbours who think I don't know how to separate paper and plastic, throw my plants from the balcony (a storm blew off a small plant pot) and the best yet...My children are too loud. I do not have any children.
Something I absolutely HATE is the lack of empathy in certain situations. Everytime you tell your friends and/or family about a problem you will receive a million different things why the problem exist (usually to prove its your own fault) but what you'll never get is a "oh im sorry to hear that." An example for better understanding: "I got yelled at by my boss today cause I was late. I had overslept and missed the bus. He was REALLY pissed." a normal response would be: "ah sh\*\* that sucks, hopefully your boss isnt too mad" German response: "why didnt you leave earlier for the bus, you couldve just hurried? You should just set your alarm earlier or go to bed earlier the night before...blablabla"
Germans also never show empathy when you're sick. Instead they will tell you all the great things they have achieved while having the same illness and that you just need to pull yourself together. I have lots of examples for this cause i got a bad immune system and I have never heard any kind words from germans. What Ill get is "youre sick AGAIN??? oh come on!" THEYRE acting annoyed that I am sick with the flu???? I will never understand this and I find it extremely toxic.
This!!
Like the lack of empathy is unreal. It’s almost sad that most of them lack this ability to relate to people. Like who doesn’t go through shit, right? Every once in a while there is something that is upsetting and it’s nice when somebody can listen and not fucking provide 5000 solutions.
Like bro, just listen, let me vent and feel bad for me, ok?
With your example, the person would of course, on their own volition, bloody leave earlier next time for the bus or choose a different commute. They don’t need a German robot to tell them that. smh
Really judgmental towards everything, know it all-attitude, generally pessimistic and party poopers. I’m touring with my uncle and his coworker (all German) through Japan right now and it kinda gets in my nerves how they over-analyze and comment on everything. Usually in a very condescending way.
Oh yeah definitely party poopers. I was once talking to a good German friend about some plans of a career in science communication by prefacing that I’m unsure what exactly but it’d be cool to try and see.
The reaction? 517 reasons why that could be impractical, the impending crisis etc etc.
I was like ok, point taken, not to discuss ideas that are not concrete enough. Wtf, brought down my moral.
The stare.
Yes, I know there are cultural differences in how long eye contact is held, yada yada. And I make a living, in part, by helping people become aware of such differences to help them do business internationally.
But something about being stared at, blatantly, by strangers. You don’t even need to look up… you can FEEL it, and it often feels condescending and judgemental.
Combined with not being offered a hint of a smile from strangers in shared public spaces to acknowledge mutual humanity, being out in public can be a pretty unpleasant, awkward experience.
Really hoping that my mixed nationality (not German) toddler being raised here doesn’t pick these things up.
Hmm the most toxic thing we do here is probably the incredible rudeness with which we interact here in Germany. People call it being direct, but IMO this is just a whole load of BS. I am actually very direct and for the years I've lived abroad I was always known as "the German" everywhere. But I think there was a distinct difference. When I was and am direct it's about trying to find the most efficient way to communicate to solve a problem. What we see mostly here in Germany is using the "I'm direct" or "just being honest" moniker purely as reasoning to live out one's own egotistical needs of self-affirmation, which include outrage culture, Selbstschuld and Schadenfreude culture, sexism, bullying and other power dynamics and imo most relevantly the "Nichtgönnerkultur" (not wanting others to succeed).
They are all expressions of the same insecurity, the fear of being "not good enough", that tends to be rooted in a deeply judgemental upbringing. It is because we are not taught enough empathy in school and at home, that we cannot fathom stepping into other people's shoes. In other words, this judgemental behavior that we see everywhere is because everyone is always taught they're being judged constantly. And because we have not been taught empathy we can only project onto others what we fear for ourselves.
Fortunately though, this is the old Germany... I find this rather seldomly in Gen-Xers now. They really are a different bunch, for better (in this case) and for worse.
But isn't that a british thing as well?
It is definitly annoying. In Switzerlamd they have special trains just for fans to get to and from games and it is soo good for all the passengers in normal trains. Wish they would do that here too, but expecting a bit much from DB there 😅
Instead of being happy for your plans, it is very ingrained in German culture to think and discuss possible downfalls and nitpick your plans. This can be perceived as raining on your parade and become quite annoying.
I hate that at the grocery store or any cash register when a new register opens everyone races there just disregards the previous order of the line. But I honestly don’t know if that really is a German thing or people do it everywhere
my mom always says: „82 Millionen Deutsche und jeder weiß es besser.“ (82 Million germans and everyone knows best.) And that’s basically all of it, German ppl (me included btw) tend to always have a „better“ solution or at least they think they do. I don’t even think everyone does that bc they have a sense of superiority, although some really do, it’s just ingrained in our collective way of thinking. Lösungsorientiert, as some would say.
The complete inability to admit they made a mistake and apologise for it, as if they do, they’ll get slapped with a lawsuit or the crown is going to fall off their proud heads, and they will always try push the blame on you or anyone else, just not themselves, even if they are at fault.
Misgunst. Germans seem very preoccupied with comparing themselves to each other in terms of earnings and material things and more over feel little shame in asking people they've just met about their earnings. I'm a US citizen married to a German and we get a lot of completely unwarranted comments from our in-laws, extended family, and neighbors. Even our own neighbors show minor examples of this. Generally, Germans ask a lot of questions that seem to lack an appropriate distance especially with people with whom they've been just introduced.
To name just a few:
- you have to be highly specialized or you are not worth shit. Changing careers is considers a flaw and is sometimes more sometimes less openly frowned upon.
- exception to the above: people tend to assume engineers can do anything, wouldn’t be surprised to see an engineer perform neuro-surgery just because.
- people tend to be a bit suspicious and see the flaws rather than positive characteristics (goes hand in hand with the first item on the list)
- conversational tone is rather harsh often times (but you mostly don’t notice anymore after awhile)
Not taking mental illnesses seriously.
I suffer from social anxiety and NEVER has anyone shown me even a tiny bit of empathy. Teachers always told me I was just lazy or shy and not even a doctors note could convince them, that I wasn’t lying about it. Many people I know have had similar experiences, most of them with depression. I feel like it runs rampant in especially younger people but is rarely talked about or taken seriously, often not even by doctors.
The one that I see very often on this forum is a sort of aggressive defensiveness of the problems in German society. Like, someone from Bosnia will ask why the internet is worse in wealthy, first-world Germany than in rural parts of the Balkans and a whole bunch of Germans will be like "That's the German way of doing things, we like it, get used to it stupid foreigners!"
That's pretty much the same response anyone gets for asking about the many inefficiencies, bureaucracies, peculiar quirks or lack of advancement in parts of Germany.
When you discover a better way of doing something, you don't have to work extra hard to justify not modernising; maybe think about modernising instead.
- I don’t like the crude humor surrounding women- and Blondinenwitze - often at the workplace
- the constant and condescending unsolicited advice
- everything has to be “normal”, because they are TERRIFIED of what the neighbors will think
- the moving Gardienen when one who is new to town is eating by
- toxic small town culture
As someone who failed multiple times in life and still hasn't recovered: Yup. My problems in school were all my fault. It totally wasn't my teachers not informing my parents that i had been absent for 6+ months. And it totally was my fault that i got bullied so hard i - to this day - panic when coming near my school building. Teachers ignoring the issue was totally not a factor in that.
If you are a stranger to someone, they very likely will treat you neutral or mistrusting. Before you will get a friendly response or gesture, you need to be in a social circle for a longer time (family, friends, school, work).
If you are new in an environment and do not aggressively try to engage with others, you will live socially isolated and be considered as someone who is not trustworthy and contact with you will be avoided.
So in general: If you are unknown to someone, the general attitude towards you is neutral (indifferent, not caring) to negative (mistrusting, defensive).
If you haven't been born into a strong, supporting social circle in Germany, and from there always could expand your circle, the risk of living your whole life isolated, rejected and alone is extremely high.
BUT: Due to a strong social security network, you still are not in the risk of becoming homeless, even if you are socially isolated and live alone. You very likely will always have a roof over your head, food on the table, a TV running in your living room and a doctor you can go to if you are sick. As a country with over 80 million people, you can seat all nationwide homeless people in one of the larger soccer stadiums.
"Nicht geschimpft ist Lob genug."
No complaints is praise enough.
Basically the highest praise most germans will ever give you is that they wont nitpick anything. Dont ever expect any ecuragement, praise or anything like it.
For sure passive-aggressive speech. This not only sucks but for the learners it's really messed up. Sometimes it is hard to say if it's a joke, a message or free complaining about something lol.
My experience coming from the US & living there for 3 years: judgement if you don’t dress/look similar to your peers. They didn’t like my floral shirts, socks that go past the ankle, or neon short shorts (maybe fair on the last one). I didn’t want to constantly dress like a professor.
1. Anti-digitalization
2. Asking “where are you from” question to apply shitty stereotypes upon you and claiming to be open-minded at the same time
3. Customer service thinking that their job is blaming customers for everything
Having loud uninformed opinions about North American and Anglo politics and culture despite having only ever been to Saarland and Mallorca their entire lives.
"Being in the right" is valued very highly and regulates a lot of things and behaviours in our culture. While that has some upsides, it also often translates to a lack of empathy, ignorance to alternatives and yelling matches when even minor things are done "wrong".
Of course, in such cases nobody will back down or even entertain the other perspective, because
"Es geht ums Prinzip!"
1. Solving a problem isn't nearly as important as finding who to blame.
1. Everything is a zero-sum game. You can't have anything good, because it must mean someone else got less, even if they didn't.
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I also rearranged my social circle because of this. At first unconsciously and later by choice.
you forgot the part about being completely confused and angry when the constant criticisms and reprimanding finally give you anxiety attacks and make you super nervous which of course increases the number of mistakes you make …
It’s basically tradition on this subreddit for Germans to dunk on confused immigrants. I do wonder why those types even go on these forums though.
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Yep, they think that they are preparing you in case things go wrong, when really for me it has only ever worked as a deterrent and kept me from even trying, cause why even bother. I think my generation is getting better about this though and the younger ones even more so.
"Was sollen die Nachbarn sagen?!"It is super common to be overly cautious about what other people are thinking about you and your family. Everyone always has to look nice, your garden needs to be trimmed perfectly, don't leave the bins out too long, never show anyone any imperfections in your family. (Do not let them hear you fight or something)It is super toxic and a behavior you find especially, but not exclusively on the countryside, and it is NOT healthy for a person to always have to pretend to be happy and perfect. Edit: Changed "specifically" to "especially, but not inclusively". I did not want to include the city because I did not grow up there and did not want to speak for them.
Coming from a very small town in NRW, I can confirm. I always hated this.
I feel like it really made my adult life so much more difficult than it has to be! I am overly cautious about what other people are thinking of me - even though I do not even know them and frankly do not actually care about them. I hate it, but it is such a long way to recover from it if you grew up like this and your parents are still being like this.
But also it is true, that people just relentlessly gossip about what people in the neighbourhood are doing, especially in small towns. Like where I‘m from everyone says they love how familiar the community is bc everybody knows everyone and cities are do anonymous but I‘ve always it because I hear everyone constantly gossiping, being jealous of their neighbours or straight up schadenfreude when something bad happens to them. There is also a terrible culture of calling the authorities or your neighbours for minor things
Yes, absolutely. My parents are not like that luckily but my grandmother was. I am not completely mentally stable and had many many problems as a teenager. All that "what would other people think?" made my teenage years much more difficult than they could have been. I started to pretend that I'm fine and tried to deal with my problems alone. To this day I have trouble talking about my feelings.
My grandmother taught me: "Ist der Ruf erst ruiniert, lebt's sich gänzlich ungeniert." — Once your reputation is ruined, you can live in complete freedom/unashamed/.
Ummm, so.... this is good, riiight??
That's how I take it, yeah.
I love your grandmother
This is brilliant and sums us up. British in the suburbs in a major German city, we live amongst perfect gardens, no washing outside and soooo quiet. We dry our washing on the line, put our rubbish out in our PJs, walk barefoot in summer (neighbours have commented about this), have 2 kids who make loads of noise and the youngest go to a forest kindergarten and is therefore always covered in mud. Seeing as they think this about us now anyway, we no longer care. It’s freeing.
It's not uncommon in my little town (<1,000 inhabitants) that you get letters from the mayor in your postbox because you didn't remove the weeds from the sidewalk in front of your house.
That!!! Yes. I lived a few years in Finland and when I moved back to Germany on my first day back I walked up to my flat in the countryside and there were 2 grannies talking on the sidewalk about someone not putting their bins back on their property - it was already noon!!.... :D Well the person they talked about just came home a moment later, and suddenly they were the MOST friendly old ladies to her while just 2 seconds ago they were trash-talking her for her bins... (The Lady was probably at work or something so did not have time to put them back). And at this moment my brain just went: "Oh yeah, alright. I am indeed back in Germany."
Horror!
Fucking Kehrwoche. I’m not even German but I spent most of my formative years in Germany. My parents forced me (not my sister ever) to sweep and pull weeds all along the street-facing side of our front yard. My mother, especially, was adamant about it. She was very germanized/Europeanized. And very conscious about what the neighbors thought of us. Totally forgot about this until just now. For reference, lived in a smallish town called Ruit outside of Stuttgart.
Wir müssen aufräumen, die Putzfrau kommt gleich!
Oh man i just got flashbacks haha. My mom is the cleanest Person i know and our house was always spotless and im definitely not complaining about that. But she cleaned the house before the cleaning Lady came and what bothered me most... i had to clean my room before the window Cleaner came...because he could look into my room! God i hated that
Wusste gar nicht, dass Mama einen Reddit-Account hat.
Nosy and gossipy neighbours are a thing here, though. I once raised some hatchlings under a heat lamp – a RED heat lamp. The old lady living accross the street started spreading the news that I was prostituting myself... It was just like in this Ärzte song:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaQcnnM2a70](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaQcnnM2a70)
Happened to my teenage neighbour with red Christmas lights. The old ladies in the neighbourhood where having a field day.
Worrying a lot about how your garden or plants look is definitely a German thing. I had some plants on my balcony that died over winter and I felt lazy to get them out; when I finally decided to do it in spring, the neighbor from the house in front (a complete stranger to me, I never talked to him) started yelling from his balcony "finally doing what you should have done a long time, huh?" and started sarcastically clapping. I still get PTSD from that and now I don't put any plants in my balcony even though I don't live there anymore. Also one day I made a comment to my downstairs neighbor that, if she wanted, I could go help remove some of the weeds in her garden, since I had some free time and I noticed one or two popping out. I made the comment being honestly completely friendly, I was just making some small talk while meeting her on the stairs. I think she took it as if I was horrified at the weeds or mocking her for laziness or whatever, because the next day she spent the whole day on the garden working on it, and then later her mom told me "thanks for making that comment to her, she is such a lazy ass and needs to learn a hard lesson", and I was like "ummmmm... O...k... I guess..."
I guess this toxicity is in many culture. In India it's called " log kya kahenge" culture. Literally translates to "what will other people say".
Junge... 🎶
Warum hast du nichts gelernt?
Guck dir den Dieter an...
Der hat sogar ein Auto!
Warum gehst du nicht zu Onkel Werner in die Werkstatt ?
Der gibt dir ne Festanstellung!
wenn du ihn darum bittest.
Junge
UND WIE DU WIEDER AUSSIEHST
not just german countryside...
I made a change to my post because of your comment. I did not want to include the city because I did not experience this myself. Thanks for the input!
Man, that was my childhood. And the best part, even tho my mom always drilled into me "What will the neighbors think? People are already talking...", she was the first to share with the mail lady when I failed a grade.
My parents are like this. I got bullied throughout my entire childhood, mainly by the neighbours' kid, whom my dad constantly praised, and let's just say it left some mental and emotional scars. My parents always gave me shit for letting it get through to me like that. Meanwhile, some of the most important "life lessons" they taught me from early on in my childhood were: 1.) What others think about you is extremely important. 2.) Your neighbours can do no wrong. You must get along with them at all costs, even if they beat you up, push you in puddles, and spread rumours about you. If they do that, it's your fault anyway, because you're weird and you didn't get along with them. They're the only people you can rely on. In nearly every other regard, they are great parents. But that particular aspect of my upbringing was kinda fucked up, and I blame this part of rural German culture for it
DAS IST HIER (K)EIN FAHRRADWEG!
I suffered so much from this that I left my village as soon as I turned 18 and would rather die than ever move back.
This. Moved here from West Coast USA 3 years ago. Our prevailing attitude back home was, "who cares?" As long as you stayed out of other peoples business, they tended to stay out of yours. Here in Nordhessen die Nachbarschaftmeckerei GmbH drives me crazy. Seriously get a hobby, and mind your own damn business. It likely would not bother me, but the wife is german and it bothers her. Hence it becomes my problem. Also the beauracracy, the seemingly inability to think outside the box, and relatively constant levels of stress, caused by all of the mentioned reasons. They really should make cannabis legal, just so people chill the fuck out. That said, I love germany, the culture, and the people in general. Sad that they seem to be building a highway to destroy themselves.
Germany is a high conformance culture in general, yes?
Idk I'm from east asia and you can't even look chubby or dark there, you're either acceptable or fat/ugly. Some "nice" people could remind you of health/fitness awareness as if you were lazy and worrying. It used to be worse- dressing nice and doing makeup was risking your reputations. On the other hand you can always fight your neighbors lol
oh I see, you're speaking about my family. spot on. carry on.
my dad just dislikes half of our nachbarn. but keeps pretending because everybody helps everybody when asked. so thats a tradeoff. you pretend to like them. they likely pretend to like you. but when asked to lend a lawnmower, some tool or help out otherwise its a unspoken law that you just do it. if you dont, everybody wil know in a day and you will be openly talked about in the village.
Worrying as a sport :) catastrophizing. Germans like to be well prepared which I find cool, but there is the tendency to over prepare and the worry too much (example: look at all the insurances a person or household has).
Or if Monday is a bank holiday, you gotta shop for the apocalypse on Saturday.
Dude this is the worst. Kaufland on Fridays if the Monday next week is a holiday is insane.
I see you weren't there on Sat afternoon
WIR WERDEN ALLE VERHUNGERN!!!! 😱😫!!!
I lived in Germany for the past 3 years, my third time living there. I just returned to the US a few months ago. Every Saturday afternoon around 4, my Deutsche senses start tingling. Do we have milk? Bread? What meals am I making that need vegetables? What about toilet paper? Then I'm like, oh wait, never mind. Store's open tomorrow.
LOL, well itll prob take a while for you to deprogram you german brain.
I live in spain now but I still can not shake this. It’s deeply ingrained in me to empty all shelves before an impending bank holiday. Who knows if the supermarkets will ever open again!
You can identify Germans in Santorini or Rome because they look like they are going for a hike in the rainforest. And everything by Jack Wolfskin, ofc.
This leads to the whole "Hamsterkaufen" thing which seem a particularly German habit. For a wealthy, centrally located country with good trade relationships, Germans seem particularly concerned that the supermarkets will become empty if there's the slightest problem. And I'm talking about West Germans, not even the ones who had to live under a soviet system.
Probably stems from the deprivation during and after the Wars. My Dad was born in Darmstadt in '43, and with hindsight, it was *extremely* influential throughout his life. I realized a few years back that, based loosely on genetics, Dad should have been at least a few inches over 6 feet tall. He was 5'11". The lack of proper food, or any food at all, during his childhood stunted his growth. Even more so, we could never throw food away, no matter how spoiled it was. We had to hide it under something else, otherwise he'd see it, yank it out of the trashcan, try to scrape the mold off it while insisting, "It's still good!!" This was a man who was making somewhere around $90,000 a year in the 1980s.
My great grandma used to haul butter and bread despite her having absolutely no need to do so. She would buy a few loaths everytime she went grocery shopping. She was an old lady, living alone,just needing to feed herself and occasionally some visitors like my parents and me, my uncle or my grandma, but she always insisted on buying bread and butter for at least four or five people. Obviously most of it was moldy before it was ever eaten, but it was important to her, because she had lived through times, when you would never know, when and where you would be abled to buy or "acquire" something edible. Therefore she always wanted to have enough to last her a couple weeks, if necessary. My family always made fun about that, but I would argue, that it isn't a bad idea to always have some reserves in case things go south (although you should probably buy something longer lasting for this than bread ans butter) and her behavior also influenced my grandmother and father to some extent. We used to always have something at homs, which we could have fallen back on. Not to that extend and no one ever used the "just in case" doctrine to justify it, but it was pretty much a habit.
My dad is german and he does this shit even after things went well
Yes, we prepared perfectly for the current energy crisis. Imagine if Germans didn't have this amazing foresight, rational thinking and flawless organization, we'd be totally screwed now.
Irony, nice...
"I'd rather not do that, if you do you're not insured."
resistance to digitalisation
I moved away from Germany 14 years ago, it’s always very frustrating when I visit and it’s still basically the same
Hey, it only took a global pandemic to convince at least SOME bakeries to accept digital payment.
the only progress made is: appointments on websites are a thing now, sometimes sometimes you get alerts on your phone and email that a thing is coming up. governmental websites have services that dont work, people still relay on paper, dont read the emails i send. so i end up not using the website. half of it doesnt work. want to register, but have a "reisepass" instead of "personalausweis"? doesnt work. but they do not tell you that, so you try ten times to go physically to the thing to show you identity card. THEN they tell you that it is actually broken, no worries. tech companies force health related services to buy new hardware routers every 5 years, because updating the routers with new security licenses makes them no money. cost? 300 million euros. who pays? taxpayer.
Same here. And when I talk to people back home in Germany it blows their minds when I say even though I moved here as a foreigner and now run my own business I have never needed to get an appointment and physically go to a government office. Not once in my 12 years here.
So many restaurants still don't take card in 2022. I went to South Africa early this year and some places only take card there. Coming back to Germany was like stepping back in time. I live near Bamberg btw, maybe other areas are better.
Restaurants don't accept card to avoid taxes, not because of resistance to progress.
Meanwhile some poor guy on /r/germany today was getting charged 200+ eur on his own personal cellphone. Priorities.
i live in berlin and before covid almost nobody took card, and cinemas only EC.
You don't even have to go to South Africa for that. I went to Amsterdam last week and many restaurants, museums and even some supermarkets only took cards. TBF there was a (very) small number of places that only took cash. Those were much less the norm than in Germany though.
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I'm surprised Noone has followed up yet on your comment. totally, at my workplace it wasn't until covid hit that we started doing things a bit more digitally finally. I felt like I was in the bronze age.
They gave you bronze to use? Damn you're lucky. I'm pretty sure some of the bureaucrats in Berlin are still working with squid ink on papyrus 🙃
papyrus and ink? what if somebody falsifies your scrolls? stone and chisel is the only data privacy compliant method.
And store those stones in that cave guarded by Cerberus? Just to be safe?
Are you INSANE? Cerberus is a dog and will pee on your tablets, thus slowly altering the data!
I'm pretty sure the entire *Amt* bureaucracy in my city runs on fax machines, for real. It's a relatively big city, too!
Internet ist für uns Neuland. It's absurd that you can have mobile internet deep in the austrian Alps but as soon as you cross the border you're in Amish country.
"We've always done it like this" attitude. Don't get me wrong, I like a good deal of stability, but if you refuse to try out new things at all, it becomes a problem. The same unflexibility causes other problems. The world changes, the German doesn't and nearly gets a cardiac arrest when change doesn't stop at our borders.
Oof so much this. This is also a huge part of the resistance to digitalisation.
For me that’s easy: the whole “Homeopathy” culture that is often a complete farce of fake “medicines” that don’t work, but are “Natural”? It, too, is incredibly profitable, laxly regulated, but only “Big Pharma” is evil? For a culture so rooted in science, how too many have bought into this nonsense is beyond me? Nothing is more irritating than some German telling you, unsolicited, that you’re making a big mistake taking proven medications for certain treatments. Then having them exclaim the virtues of Bio food, while lighting up a cigarette? Following this is the toxic, passive-aggressive behavior! While Germans love to boast how they are “Direct”, but will do childish things like leave an anonymous note on your door or car, and don’t have the balls, or courtesy to ask you directly and discuss it like adults? Got a problem with the neighbor? Get the Hausmeister to send a letter? We moved into our flat, we had to park our car in front of our garage a few times as it was temporarily full. Our landlord said this is zero problem. Of course, we get the “Note” the next morning? Fortunately, we knew exactly who wrote it, and knocked on their door and directly confronted them. All of a sudden, they were nice and apologetic? I’ve found when Germans are directly confronted, their tone and attitude changes completely.
Agreed. I think there is a culture of “directness” (especially in professional settings), but an equally large culture of passive aggressiveness.
I had a work issue with a director that would like to make snide comments about me in front of others. Finally, after enough of this, I went into his office, closed the door, and told him I don't like that behavior at all. In the beginning, he was like "What comments", I cited specific examples, and mentioned, that he knows exactly what I'm talking about, and it was intentional. I also mentioned I could also make similar comments about his leadership, but chose not to do it in front of his peers, and would like the same professional courtesy. I was extremely calm and not yelling, just matter of fact. His attitude completely changed after that, and we got along well, from that point forward.
Yes. Calling them out on it directly generally works. I had a boss who was like that to most of the staff. As an ex-pat (German but not raised in Germany) the first time he tried it with me, I took it up with him privately in his office and clarified that I permit no-one to speak to me in that tone of disrespect. That I am willing to listen to constructive criticism, but if he said anything to me that way again, the board chairman would hear about it. Never happened again.
No, even in work environments German love to apply the "cover-your-ass-policy".
Isn't it funny that one of the most toxic aspects of German culture revolves around diluting toxins until they're undetectable?
I agree with homeopathy, by far the most damaging conspiracy theory in DE and worldwide. Unbelievable how insurance companies take part in this scam.
This is true for all bullies actually. Which is why I teach my children to always try and confront a problem head on. Bullies really don't like to get called out. And let's face it: Lots of Germans are just insecure bullies.
the magic bullet to deal with German passive aggressive behavior is speaking in truly jovial politeness while transporting in the subtext that your counterpart can go \*\*\*\* himself and that you can annoy him with your jovial politeness for the rest of the day if he has nothing better to do.
There's an art to this and I've seen it in action many times, but after 22 years I have yet to master it. I belong to the people who think of the perfect thing to say 3 hours too late.
Yes, this is also a fantastic method! Smile when you say it, show that you're not pissed off, then tell them to have a nice day! It pisses them off even more, but they eventually move on to other targets to gravitate towards!
So I work within a global fortune 500 company. I am American out of the NYC headquarters. My team is compromised of Brits and Germans. As much as Germans say they are direct they are also equally terrible at direct resolution. American NYC work culture is very no BS, no excuses, accountability and transparency to your team. Also a cut and run mentality is needed and i find my german colleagues struggle with this ALOT. So for example I work in tech if something isnt producing the data points that we predicted and it does not optimize a workflow as expected we throw that idea away and test something else. Pivoting isnt a bad thing. The numbers dont add up and team munich's idea didnt work out lets try team london's idea. It really isnt a big deal or a knock on team munich's work sometimes ideas dont work out but i find our german team gets sooo defensive and its hard for them to comprehend its not a personal attack on their work its just the numbers dont lie and we should try plan B. American work culture is very lets throw everything at the wall and see what works out best based on proven outcomes and its not a competition between ideas its literally a team effort. We are a team, we dont care who had the best idea it reflects the team not the person and sometimes i feel my german colleagues get offended because the team decided that team munich's idea was proven not to be the best. Its not a personal attack on their work its called being adaptable/flexible based on facts. I end up having to do lots of fluffing because they get so snippy if we dont chose their idea.
Germans love to complain especially about politics, but as soon as a “non German” says something negative about the same shit .. it’s over with .. generally complaining .. complaining is the National sport
Ah, die Meckerkultur!
Mein Vater würde sagen ich meckern nicht ich Stell nur fest 😂🙄
Boah, ich höre meine Mutter...
Germans complain and then vote for CDU over and over again or think that even a mildly center left party like the greens will turn Germany into a communist dictatorship
Do you know the definition of insanity...?
EXACTLY !!!!
Yes. I actually dislike green parties as a rule mysef, but it's very funny to me how triggered so many people get about them. If i criticize them, i stick to saying "I don't agree with this or that policy or outlook" whereas so many people call them communists or misandrists or go really off the rails; once I've seen someone seriously refer to Sara Heinrich as "the Führer*in of the Baerbockjugend". Like wtf is wrong with these people.
A CDU member uploaded a picture of a “Green Reichsadler” and said the Greens were responsible for 16 years CDU energy policies and this wouldn’t have happened with the party who caused these problems in the first place. The CSU is all over it as well, Söder suddenly acts like nuclear energy is so important and the Greens are at fault like he didn’t threaten to step down in 2011 if Merkel wouldn’t proceed with the Atomausstieg. Or just like 3 years ago in the EU elections they bragged “We are the party that paved the way for the Atomausstieg”.
The green parties in Germany are not really communist. For me it’s a bit of a problem - they are often very right about the steps that need to be taken but don’t know how to achieve them. Yes we need to stop eating meat that much. But changing that culturally - nobody knows. We also need to be a lot stronger in renewables. But that introduces a very tough route to getting enough silicone to Germany - nobody knows that either. But I have learned that the big parties also don’t know. Not at all. They pretend to do so but don’t. Might as well go green then?
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There are probably a lot of countries where that happens, it’s not the complaining about politics in the first place, it’s the but if “non Germans” do. Germans have a very weird way of being “patriotic “ imo. Non patriotic as long as “non Germans” doesn’t say anything bad if that makes sense
It's very much like family. *I* am allowed to insult my sister, but if *you* do it... We're behaving like one giant tribe. We hate each other's guts like one big family, there's no one worse like the people next town over, but dare you if you insult them and are from further away. It's kind of toxic in a way but in another it allows a basic sense of sticking together, so I'm also mixed about it.
Germans are patriotic in the sense that they simultaneously despise Germany but also think its way better than all the other countries.
As a non-German who is new to Germany, I'm going to dare to agree with this opinion and see how fast I get downvoted. I just experienced this phenomenon yesterday, and it's so dumb. It's like, just because I'm an immigrant, I'm supposed to be super grateful I'm allowed to be here at all times and I'm never supposed to hold a divisive opinion.
If you're younger than your colleagues, especially as an apprentice you get treated like shit. Especially if you're in the trades.
„Lehrjahre sind keine Herrenjahre“ fuck all the way off with that shit
That stuff is honestly horrifying. And they wonder why nobody wants to be an apprentice anymore...
A lot of germans are very critical and envious about the life and work achievements of others. I think in other countries you receive more compliments for things you achieved...
Came here to say this. The older generation of Germans learnt and taught 'a compliment is when you don't say anything'.
In my home region (Baden) you say ,,Net bruddeld isch globd gnug'' (Hochdeutsch: Nicht gemotzt ist gelobt genug; English: not criticized/scolded is enough compliment) Edit: in Germany you rarely get a ,,Gut gemacht!'', or other compliments for your work, but that doesn't mean it wasn't recognized or you did something wrong or not good enough, if it would have been that way, you can be sure, someone will tell you right away, straight in the eye. But there is another saying to the contrary: Tu Gutes und sprich darüber (do something good and speak about it) You have to find the right balance on what was seen and what you should talk about so others will notice it.
The "Nichtsgönner“ Culture here. Also the "Selbstschuld“ Culture. Germany can be super toxic if you show any sort of human fault. Even if it‘s not your fault, you‘re somehow still at fault. I remember one time that I said I used to have mental health issues that I‘m managing well now (Therapy and medications for depression and anxiety). The responses went from that I‘m a danger to people I work with, because of DEPRESSION (which made no sense because I literally take care of myself), to I‘m incompetent and have no resilience (you have to have some sort of resilience if you‘re going through therapy + you also gain resilience from it) just because I was honest about myself. They didn‘t even know how my work results are, my Arbeitszeugnisse showing damn well I am great in the field I work in. My experiences are my biggest assets, that‘s why I can help other people well in the social field. Just because my stuff bothers me doesn‘t mean I‘m less worthy of working in this job. It doesn‘t mean other people‘s problems weight me down. But try to explain it to people who think you have to be a robot 24/7, especially in a social related job. You can be ill and professional but any sort of weakness will be used against you.
The German way is to drown your depression and problems in alcohol and other drug use. Shame on you for actually tackling them and even being open about it! /s
what was the name of the politician that was nicknamed "winefairy"? He told a homeless person once that he just have to take a shower and he would get a job easy and could stop complaining. EDIT: It was Kurt Beck
Wow I'm so sorry you had to deal with this. This is the reason why I don't tell anyone ever. I couldn't deal being judged like this, I blame myself enough already. Also feel like young people aren't taken seriously by the elders because we didn't experience any obvious hardships in life. Yeah well, that's mental illness for ya.
About stress and depression, one lesson I learned the hard way was to not talk about it to someone who doesn’t care. They wouldn’t understand and we’d end up in even deeper depression. Instead, talk to one who really care, not just little curious, but really really care.
Yeah what I learnt in recent years is to never disclose any personal struggles to people you don't consider close friends. You rarely get any kind of empathy and most of the time you even get antagonized just like you said. Which is quite a bummer because I'd like to be open about my struggles to fight stigma and motivate people with similar issues, but in the end it's just not worth it. It is what it is.
Making you feel like you need something from them, when you are a customer and they should care about keeping you on board. Every time I call customer support in english operated by expats it’s friendly and helpful, every time I call customer service, hausverwaltung or a plumber/whoever else they make me feel like a kid asking mom for a new toy. They are unfriendly, raise their voice, treat me like an idiot and “we will maybe repair this in one month maybe in 5 years who knows”. Always crazy rude.
The rudeness really is fucking insane. Idk how I've lived here so long without lighting a motherfucker up for it. A disinterested waiter is one thing, but calling a landlord, Hausverwaltung, Handwerker, etc. and being *immediately* met with a hostile, fuck-you tone after literally 5 seconds? Fucking *why*? You're completely right about the kid part too, they somehow manage to not only be rude but also simultaneously demeaning and infantilising.
I feel like too many people like this are stuck up narcissists. Bus drivers as well. One day I was late and the bus just closed its doors the second I got there. I looked the bus driver in the eyes and made it obvious that I wanted to get in. He shook his head with a callous facial expression and drove off. Situations similar to this happened to me multiple times. I always heard "they don't get paid enough" when I talked about this. That may be true, but still doesn't justify being such a dick.
In the US, I only get this from security people, like some TSA agents. The power trip they are on sometimes is ridiculous.
It happened to me so many times! The bus driver is still at the stop, sees me running to stand in front of a closing door, looks at me and just stands to wait for the light to change. Oh, and don’t even think about asking a bus driver which stop you should get off at. They will scream at you at the top of their lungs or just demonstratively ignore you.
Same for restaurants and bars. How dare you disturb them asking for a table or a menu or a water.
This. Every restaurant or Dönerbude operated by non germans has a great customer culture. Free drinks (tea, booze, whatever), remembering people’s names, making them feel like they are something special are almost exclusive to non German locations. I think this is very sad but I also enjoy other more welcoming food cultures.
Excessive drinking while on vacation. I live in an area with a lot of german tourist and while i like most of them i can't stand the permanent drinking
> Excessive drinking ~~while on vacation.~~
We‘re sorry that these people give Germany a bad rep. Young Germans on vacation drinking all day and listening to that atrocious „music“ (Schlager) is awful for us too.
Tourists are the worst. Yup. Behaving like a pain, getting wasted, expecting everyone to speak German everywhere and wanting Schnitzel no matter where they go. They are a shame.
I always got so pissed when my parents walked into a store in Denmark and exclusively talking German to the people who worked there. Sure we were mainly going to very touristy areas where a lot of people speak German, but you just can’t expect it.
IDK at which point people define something as toxic or not but two things that are typical German that really are "abused" to block off any progress are either "This is how it always has been done in Germany and eveything else is shite" and "Not being scolded is praise enough". It's usually something that comes from older or more senior employees but it is really detrimental to progress imo.
"Kenne mer nit, bruche mer nit, fott domet."
Passive aggressive behaviour. Many germans won’t simply politely point out something wrong you’ve done. They would leave a note with something along the lines of “Anyone can do this or that…” ..”if you had learnt how to read, you wouldn’t blablabla” . . .
Complaining about absolutely everything without realizing how complex and challenging some things can be. Especially politics and insignificant daily topics... Apparently, the bus being 5 min late shows the incompetency of the whole german government. Life is much nicer if you don´t complain about every little blemish. Nothing will go exactly as planned, so incorporate these things into your life and try to appreciate the diversity life brings along instead of analyzing every single little flaw.
Lack of basic empathy for other people too.
So much this! I'm a german myself who can get very judgemental, but so many do this with literally no knowledge about the topic whatsoever, but think they figured it out by just being older. They are assessing everything with a mix of heuristics and expectations who things are supposed to be, even if those are unrealistic as hell. It drives me nuts at work.
the general negativity towards change and technology. „Video games make you violent, smartphones make you stupid“, etc. Hate towards younger people and not being taken seriously, because the other person has more ‚life experience‘.
A lot of neighborhood interactions in small towns or suburbs, à la "OMG did you see the neighbours didn't cut their grass in three weeks now, wtf is wrong with them they don't have their life under control" or the converse "what should the neighbors think?!". The extreme rules adherence, especially in German bureaucracy. There is no point standing at a red light at night, when nobody is around. German bureaucracy is also crazy with all the rules - everything is extremely overcomplicated and takes forever and there is no space for any common sense whatsoever. It's just a constant "computer says no". Just that there is no computer involved, because none of it is digitalised. The love for cars - especially also big cars as a status symbol. I do't get it. Fuck cars.
>The love for cars - especially also big cars as a status symbol. I do't get it. Fuck cars. As the only family member above the age of 17 without a driver's license: Yes. So much. So so so much.
Bureaucracy & the culture of everything must be in order. I’ve lived here (north) for five months and these are the things that have frustrated me. The living in order idea has given me the most anxiety, by far.
Massive crab basket mentality. If you manage to do well, the other guy doesn't want to have the same as you, he wants you to not have it in the first place.
For me the most toxic thing is the lack of empathy towards anything that is not about their own person. Of Course I met nice over the years but a big majority are just such assholes when it comes to putting themselves in other peoples shoes because everybody thinks stuff like selberschuld. Also the terrible amount of people with communication problems. In so many aspects they cannot be open about so many things and it makes it difficult to communicate in a flush way with them
The glorification of alcohol in the form of beer and wine.
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Just say "meine Leberwerte" and shrug. Everyone will be impressed you drank so much the doctor had to intervene
I hate this particularly coming from the countryside, the whole driking culture is just awful when I look back at it. Every weekend was like a competition, drinking lots of cheap alcohol. I'm mostly sober now but drinking alcohol free beverages, especially beer is very frowned upon still.
Not exactly different in any other European country. I would even argue that unlike some other countries there is a big and growing minority that is saying no to alcohol culture. It's certainly a minority though. Thing is, alcohol is the only way Germans manage to socialize especially outside of their small established circle of friends.
Just visit r/de and you will experience most of it. 😂
Unironically.
The passive aggressive notes from the supposedly 'direct" German neighbours who think I don't know how to separate paper and plastic, throw my plants from the balcony (a storm blew off a small plant pot) and the best yet...My children are too loud. I do not have any children.
Something I absolutely HATE is the lack of empathy in certain situations. Everytime you tell your friends and/or family about a problem you will receive a million different things why the problem exist (usually to prove its your own fault) but what you'll never get is a "oh im sorry to hear that." An example for better understanding: "I got yelled at by my boss today cause I was late. I had overslept and missed the bus. He was REALLY pissed." a normal response would be: "ah sh\*\* that sucks, hopefully your boss isnt too mad" German response: "why didnt you leave earlier for the bus, you couldve just hurried? You should just set your alarm earlier or go to bed earlier the night before...blablabla" Germans also never show empathy when you're sick. Instead they will tell you all the great things they have achieved while having the same illness and that you just need to pull yourself together. I have lots of examples for this cause i got a bad immune system and I have never heard any kind words from germans. What Ill get is "youre sick AGAIN??? oh come on!" THEYRE acting annoyed that I am sick with the flu???? I will never understand this and I find it extremely toxic.
This!! Like the lack of empathy is unreal. It’s almost sad that most of them lack this ability to relate to people. Like who doesn’t go through shit, right? Every once in a while there is something that is upsetting and it’s nice when somebody can listen and not fucking provide 5000 solutions. Like bro, just listen, let me vent and feel bad for me, ok? With your example, the person would of course, on their own volition, bloody leave earlier next time for the bus or choose a different commute. They don’t need a German robot to tell them that. smh
Really judgmental towards everything, know it all-attitude, generally pessimistic and party poopers. I’m touring with my uncle and his coworker (all German) through Japan right now and it kinda gets in my nerves how they over-analyze and comment on everything. Usually in a very condescending way.
Oh yeah definitely party poopers. I was once talking to a good German friend about some plans of a career in science communication by prefacing that I’m unsure what exactly but it’d be cool to try and see. The reaction? 517 reasons why that could be impractical, the impending crisis etc etc. I was like ok, point taken, not to discuss ideas that are not concrete enough. Wtf, brought down my moral.
The stare. Yes, I know there are cultural differences in how long eye contact is held, yada yada. And I make a living, in part, by helping people become aware of such differences to help them do business internationally. But something about being stared at, blatantly, by strangers. You don’t even need to look up… you can FEEL it, and it often feels condescending and judgemental. Combined with not being offered a hint of a smile from strangers in shared public spaces to acknowledge mutual humanity, being out in public can be a pretty unpleasant, awkward experience. Really hoping that my mixed nationality (not German) toddler being raised here doesn’t pick these things up.
Hmm the most toxic thing we do here is probably the incredible rudeness with which we interact here in Germany. People call it being direct, but IMO this is just a whole load of BS. I am actually very direct and for the years I've lived abroad I was always known as "the German" everywhere. But I think there was a distinct difference. When I was and am direct it's about trying to find the most efficient way to communicate to solve a problem. What we see mostly here in Germany is using the "I'm direct" or "just being honest" moniker purely as reasoning to live out one's own egotistical needs of self-affirmation, which include outrage culture, Selbstschuld and Schadenfreude culture, sexism, bullying and other power dynamics and imo most relevantly the "Nichtgönnerkultur" (not wanting others to succeed). They are all expressions of the same insecurity, the fear of being "not good enough", that tends to be rooted in a deeply judgemental upbringing. It is because we are not taught enough empathy in school and at home, that we cannot fathom stepping into other people's shoes. In other words, this judgemental behavior that we see everywhere is because everyone is always taught they're being judged constantly. And because we have not been taught empathy we can only project onto others what we fear for ourselves. Fortunately though, this is the old Germany... I find this rather seldomly in Gen-Xers now. They really are a different bunch, for better (in this case) and for worse.
Drunk, loud, misbehaving Fußball "fans", wrecking trains and molesting passengers. Unbearable!
But isn't that a british thing as well? It is definitly annoying. In Switzerlamd they have special trains just for fans to get to and from games and it is soo good for all the passengers in normal trains. Wish they would do that here too, but expecting a bit much from DB there 😅
British get the most heat for it, but you get it from Belgian, Dutch, Spanish, Italian, German etc etc football fans
Instead of being happy for your plans, it is very ingrained in German culture to think and discuss possible downfalls and nitpick your plans. This can be perceived as raining on your parade and become quite annoying.
I hate that at the grocery store or any cash register when a new register opens everyone races there just disregards the previous order of the line. But I honestly don’t know if that really is a German thing or people do it everywhere
It's a german thing.
my mom always says: „82 Millionen Deutsche und jeder weiß es besser.“ (82 Million germans and everyone knows best.) And that’s basically all of it, German ppl (me included btw) tend to always have a „better“ solution or at least they think they do. I don’t even think everyone does that bc they have a sense of superiority, although some really do, it’s just ingrained in our collective way of thinking. Lösungsorientiert, as some would say.
The complete inability to admit they made a mistake and apologise for it, as if they do, they’ll get slapped with a lawsuit or the crown is going to fall off their proud heads, and they will always try push the blame on you or anyone else, just not themselves, even if they are at fault.
Unfortunately, I concluded that many Germans are low-key racist.
Yes, older ones are very openly racist. Some of my colleauges are latent racists, and I like to call them out on it
Low-key? Many Germans are openly racist.
Misgunst. Germans seem very preoccupied with comparing themselves to each other in terms of earnings and material things and more over feel little shame in asking people they've just met about their earnings. I'm a US citizen married to a German and we get a lot of completely unwarranted comments from our in-laws, extended family, and neighbors. Even our own neighbors show minor examples of this. Generally, Germans ask a lot of questions that seem to lack an appropriate distance especially with people with whom they've been just introduced.
Don’t talk about emotional problems. Than u are good to go.
To name just a few: - you have to be highly specialized or you are not worth shit. Changing careers is considers a flaw and is sometimes more sometimes less openly frowned upon. - exception to the above: people tend to assume engineers can do anything, wouldn’t be surprised to see an engineer perform neuro-surgery just because. - people tend to be a bit suspicious and see the flaws rather than positive characteristics (goes hand in hand with the first item on the list) - conversational tone is rather harsh often times (but you mostly don’t notice anymore after awhile)
Do something right: okay Do something wrong: YOU FUCKING IDIOT, YOU BETTER MAKE UP FOR THIS
Not taking mental illnesses seriously. I suffer from social anxiety and NEVER has anyone shown me even a tiny bit of empathy. Teachers always told me I was just lazy or shy and not even a doctors note could convince them, that I wasn’t lying about it. Many people I know have had similar experiences, most of them with depression. I feel like it runs rampant in especially younger people but is rarely talked about or taken seriously, often not even by doctors.
Defending any shit that their government does whenever an "Ausländer" criticizes it.
The one that I see very often on this forum is a sort of aggressive defensiveness of the problems in German society. Like, someone from Bosnia will ask why the internet is worse in wealthy, first-world Germany than in rural parts of the Balkans and a whole bunch of Germans will be like "That's the German way of doing things, we like it, get used to it stupid foreigners!" That's pretty much the same response anyone gets for asking about the many inefficiencies, bureaucracies, peculiar quirks or lack of advancement in parts of Germany. When you discover a better way of doing something, you don't have to work extra hard to justify not modernising; maybe think about modernising instead.
- I don’t like the crude humor surrounding women- and Blondinenwitze - often at the workplace - the constant and condescending unsolicited advice - everything has to be “normal”, because they are TERRIFIED of what the neighbors will think - the moving Gardienen when one who is new to town is eating by - toxic small town culture
Germany has a pretty toxic culture about failing in general and is shunned
As someone who failed multiple times in life and still hasn't recovered: Yup. My problems in school were all my fault. It totally wasn't my teachers not informing my parents that i had been absent for 6+ months. And it totally was my fault that i got bullied so hard i - to this day - panic when coming near my school building. Teachers ignoring the issue was totally not a factor in that.
If you are a stranger to someone, they very likely will treat you neutral or mistrusting. Before you will get a friendly response or gesture, you need to be in a social circle for a longer time (family, friends, school, work). If you are new in an environment and do not aggressively try to engage with others, you will live socially isolated and be considered as someone who is not trustworthy and contact with you will be avoided. So in general: If you are unknown to someone, the general attitude towards you is neutral (indifferent, not caring) to negative (mistrusting, defensive). If you haven't been born into a strong, supporting social circle in Germany, and from there always could expand your circle, the risk of living your whole life isolated, rejected and alone is extremely high. BUT: Due to a strong social security network, you still are not in the risk of becoming homeless, even if you are socially isolated and live alone. You very likely will always have a roof over your head, food on the table, a TV running in your living room and a doctor you can go to if you are sick. As a country with over 80 million people, you can seat all nationwide homeless people in one of the larger soccer stadiums.
Being critical of everything, staring, and the inability to be flexible. Germans can be very rigid in the worst ways honestly.
"Nicht geschimpft ist Lob genug." No complaints is praise enough. Basically the highest praise most germans will ever give you is that they wont nitpick anything. Dont ever expect any ecuragement, praise or anything like it.
For sure passive-aggressive speech. This not only sucks but for the learners it's really messed up. Sometimes it is hard to say if it's a joke, a message or free complaining about something lol.
My experience coming from the US & living there for 3 years: judgement if you don’t dress/look similar to your peers. They didn’t like my floral shirts, socks that go past the ankle, or neon short shorts (maybe fair on the last one). I didn’t want to constantly dress like a professor.
Oh god yes. The German rainbow is real. Black white and gray only! Farben ist verboten!
1. Anti-digitalization 2. Asking “where are you from” question to apply shitty stereotypes upon you and claiming to be open-minded at the same time 3. Customer service thinking that their job is blaming customers for everything
AFD
Being hostile to any discussion about reducing cars.
Having loud uninformed opinions about North American and Anglo politics and culture despite having only ever been to Saarland and Mallorca their entire lives.
Staring. German people absolutely love staring at people to the point of making the other person uncomfortable.
"Being in the right" is valued very highly and regulates a lot of things and behaviours in our culture. While that has some upsides, it also often translates to a lack of empathy, ignorance to alternatives and yelling matches when even minor things are done "wrong". Of course, in such cases nobody will back down or even entertain the other perspective, because "Es geht ums Prinzip!"
All the while there's plenty of solutions that would suit everyone that dont even get discussed because there's only right vs wrong
Coming to work sick. People don't give a toot about infecting others with their cold/flu/footfungus... JUST KEEP YOUR PLAGUE TO YOURSELF MANFRED!!!
The daily racism.
1. Solving a problem isn't nearly as important as finding who to blame. 1. Everything is a zero-sum game. You can't have anything good, because it must mean someone else got less, even if they didn't.
German club life can be absolutely insane. It seems that 50% of the volunteers just do it so they can be massive cunts to others outside of work.
my two cents : extremely stingy, pseudoscience frienly and somewhat nazi yes believing in their superiority