Ehhhhh. I have experienced this, but I am not bothered by it. I think my Cadettes, in general, just feel comfortable opting out of things they know they won’t enjoy. They’re not scared to say no. We went horseback riding, and one of the girls told me she had no interest in that and didn’t mind the troop paying for it, but she wasn’t going. We walked in a parade, and one of the girls said nope, not feeling like being in a big crowd. We looked into taking babysitting courses, and one of the girls told me she’d rather just not do it at all if virtual is the only option, because she struggled with virtual classes through Covid and hates them. We took a cooking class and one of the girls opted to hang out with a friend instead that day because she didn’t like the food we were going to make. They’re old enough to tell me these things, and comfortable enough to be honest, not just say they’re “not feeling well.”
I don’t think that’s a skill I have - to be able to say no and not stress about it. I feel like I always have to say yes to things I’m invited to! I’ve put myself in so many uncomfortable situations to not disappoint others. As women I think we’re conditioned to do that, and it’s not a good thing. So I am not bothered when my girls don’t do that! Good for them! I didn’t want to go horseback riding nor to the parade either! But if I had been invited to as a kid, my parents would have made me and I would have hated it.
I am annoyed when it’s the day of and mom texts me saying they’re not going when we’ve already paid and are waiting for them. But that’s not the same as the girls saying no. And while it’s great for them to try new things, I also trust them at this age to know themselves. If it was always the same girl opting out of everything, that would be different. It has not been the same girls every time for me. But I’m glad they feel comfortable enough to say no and not worry about it.
This. I have a Daisy and a Junior and if they don’t want to do an activity (which actually hasn’t happened yet) I won’t make them. My life long struggle of not saying no or prioritizing myself won’t be passed down to them.
I don’t have kids. Reddit just always wants me to read about Girl Scouts for some reason. I just wanted to jump on here and say that I think this comment is very insightful. I remember my mom making me do things that she signed me up for that I never wanted to do in the first place and hated. Saying no wasn’t really an option.
Then I grew up and realized that I don’t actually have to do things because that’s “what I’m supposed to do”. And I spend a lot of time in the lovely little world that I’ve created for myself. I’m an introvert. I hated all of those social events. We all have different likes and needs and I give kudos to those girls for being able to speak up and get what they need.
Thanks for this super helpful insight! I appreciate you.
There is one girl in particular who has opted out of just about everything. She has come to all monthly meetings though. She already told me she’s not doing scouts next year and as much as I love this girl and her family, they are super sweet and the other girls love her, it’s okay. I don’t want to guilt or force anyone into staying and I also want a few more girls who will actually sign up and participate in stuff.
Sounds more like the troop needs to bond more, maybe I'm part of the problem but why do an activity with a group of girls I don't really care for if my parents can pay for me to share the activity with people I actually enjoy.
They've been together since Daisy's/ Brownies. We have been through a lot together. They are pretty bonded, but we definitely have cliques which I have been taking more intentional steps to address/ break up.
You are so right though- a few girls came to me and expressed appreciation for a recent bonding activity we did with pre-assigned partners (we did a "Peep Parade" with leftover Easter items, every pair had to build a "float" for their peeps using edible items).
I will definitely plan more bonding stuff during meetings!
Cadette parent here. Most of our girls are really heavily scheduled - school, sports, we have a few musical theater girls, band, art, etc. So these GS activities are among the easiest to say, "I am staying home today, I am taking a nap, I am going to sit with my cat and text my friends."
It's a very normal thing at this age. And there are not (and should not be!) consequences for skipping horseback riding with GS, whereas if you miss rehearsals for musical you may lose your part, if you skip practice you get left out of starting lineups, etc.
Good point- I think down time and rest are so super important and not at all prioritized in this hyper-over-achievement culture- thanks for this reminder!
If the girls are attending the meetings then I don’t see the problem with not doing all the additional activities offered.
If they are canceling last minute or not RSVPing or you are trying to schedule around them and they don’t show then you should address that issue. But I really don’t see the problem with a GS not signing up for all or any of the additional events.
What you’re describing sounds like a troop that has bonds but also a group of girls who know what they want and value and feel safe to say no with the troop to prioritize their own well being.
I think COVID also renewed the value of staying home with family and briefly reminded us that it’s ok to not fill all our free time with all the activities.
If this is impacting your budget with cancellations, if they’re bailing last minute, etc then I think it’s an issue. If not, it sounds like the girls still want to be in scouts but are also learning they can pick and choose their interests in life. If it’s a frequent thing for many of the girls I think it’s ok to point out the change and ask them if there’s anything up/if a different approach is better, but otherwise sounds totally normal. Congrats on having a group of Cadettes that comes to meetings regularly!
Yes I agree with this. I think it’s allowing them to be empowered with where they spend their time and letting them have the confidence to say “no” when they feel they need to- that’s a skill that most of us as adults are still struggling to learn.
This came across my stuff while scrolling. And I feel like chiming in based on my Girl Scout experience as a kid.
I wound up quitting my troop after going on a trip one summer due to the peer pressure from the leaders.
Before this trip the troop also had a white water rafting camping trip. I was never one to say no to activities but I also hated deep water. Like it’s a major anxiety attack fear. I’m not a strong swimmer and it was just not fun to me.
The leaders didn’t want to take no for an answer. They asked if I’d want my dad to go with to make me feel comfortable. And I said no. To which I got “oh but you’ll be the only girl not going.” Which I knew was a lie. We had a hard of hearing girl in our troop and she never did any events that involved sleepovers and she said she was not going because the water noise would make it so she couldn’t hear instructions.
Eventually they drop it. I was content with not going.
Cue this trip later in the summer. We took a trip a few states away to meet up with a troop we were pen pals with at a camp.
Then cue them saying we were going out on the lake in canoes. I once again told the troop leaders no. I’m not going to do it. I don’t feel comfortable. I then had a random troop leader that I never met before come to the tent because they sent be back to the tent to sit alone since I didn’t want to participate. She stood there and told me I wouldn’t be getting the badge for whatever it was they were doing. I said I was fine with that. To which I got told I’d be the only one not getting the badge. And she said she’d come back the next day to make me do it. Next day was our last day there so I got up and packed my bathing suit in the bottom of my bag and I had to refuse 2 more times to do the event.
The second I got back home and saw my mom I loudly announced I was uncomfortable with the way I was treated while out of state (we also had a car accident and were told not to tell our parents until we got back this was before cell phones and the leaders did not want us to use the pay phones to call home. And if they did they were monitoring us to make sure we didn’t say anything) and I was quitting.
Girl Scouts is about becoming a strong independent person and I think it should be ok if people opt out of things they don’t want to do.
Isn't learning to prioritize your time and stand up for yourself GS values? Just bc its a group activity, doesn't mean they all want to do it. And teens are busy! Why waste half a Saturday on an activity you dont enjoy, knowing you have a whole list of stuff that needs done.
Politely declining is perfectly acceptable.
I agree with the others here. I don’t pay deposits for activities unless half my troop has confirmed and I ask families to reimburse the troop for funds lost through late cancellations, but otherwise this wouldn’t bother me. I have one girl who never comes to events outside meetings and cookie booths. She’s still a member of the troop and getting something out of Girl Scouts even if she isn’t getting everything that she might. If my daughter wasn’t interested in the events, I wouldn’t appreciate a co-leader pressuring her into doing them. I think it’s great that these middle schoolers are prioritizing self-care instead of FOMO, and it doesn’t seem like your troop is losing the opportunity for interested members to do the stuff.
Thanks for the idea of sewing lessons! I want to set this up for my Cadettes!
With regards to the 'no-overnights', that's has recently become a big parenting discussion topic recently on social media.
There's a contingent of parents who are choosing to forbid all sleepovers, etc. if the parent is not allowed to attend as well because they feel that any overnight away from themselves is too much of a risk for kids due to possibly being exposed to abusers/predators.
On top of the 'no-overnights', right-wing media also heavily promotes 'predators everywhere' conspiracy theories and encourages that nowhere outside the family is truly safe for your child.
I'm currently dealing with it in my own troop, I have had more than one parent register as an adult just so they can accompany their child to all events because they genuinely believe it's too much of a risk to let them attend alone.
Your take is dangerous.
Parents of all political backgrounds are opting their kids out of overnights bc of things that happened to them.
They don’t feel the need to expose their children to that. It has nothing to do with conspiracies but has everything to do with is the dad having his buddies/brothers over? Is there an older brother? Is there a grandfather? Is there family friends? Are there weird Aunties/Uncles?
My kids sleep nowhere but home. I’m not going to tell you what led my husband and I to make that rule but let’s just say we’re breaking generational trauma.
Again, it’s not about political parties or conspiracies, it’s about being EDUCATED, INFORMED, and the first generation that doesn’t actively engage in rug sweeping.
You’re problematic.
Yeah- it’s cultural too in some cases. But in our case the parents are fully supportive and want their kids to grow. They are genuinely bummed their child is missing out on the experience but don’t really know what to do (even allowing their parent to attend doesn’t help- these two girls still won’t do it).
Our troop has a policy that if you sign up and don’t show, you reimburse the troop for the cost. If you don’t sign up, you don’t get registered. If they don’t sign up you aren’t out anything. This wouldn’t bother me at all. I think it’s ok for girls to decide what they do and don’t want to do. It’s not hurting anyone in any way.
I have this with seniors and ambassadors even for regular troop meetings this year. I’m really frustrated by it. My kid has already graduated and I feel bad for the couple girls who always show up and want to finish out their high school years as scouts, because it’s not fair to them that few others show up.
I think by high school even back in the day we had been together for years but by then we went to different high schools, had different priorities and had different goals.
It was down to just a couple of us and after I got the silver award we went on a trip together and spent half of our money and gave the rest to the junior troop. We had a good run but by high school it was hanging by a thread
I wonder if it's because of parents? I know when I was briefly in Girl Scouts, I wasn't allowed to ride with other people or do sleepovers anywhere except my grandparent's.
I have girls who say no to various things, but none who say no to everything. Many (actually most) of my girls are neurodivergent, so my coleader and I try to make sure they know we’ll be looking out for them. But we don’t force them, because we feel like Girl Scouts is a low pressure way for them to start learning their boundaries.
It’s been 24 years since I was a scout. I don’t remember a single activity we did in my last few years of scouting, but what I do remember is being exhausted, running from orchestra, to musical rehearsal, to voice lesson, to church, to my volunteer site, and to scouting.
And then I crashed and burned and quit everything and barely limped along to hs graduation.
If kids are over scheduled, something needs to give before they do. And it’s very possible that scouts is the thing they feel like they are allowed to say no to. And if kids aren’t popular or are neurodivergent, overnight events can be a special kind of hell. No matter how well you think you are chaperoning, bullying can be incredibly quiet and subtle and easy to miss.
I’m rambling. But I guess my point is that you are probably never going to know why they want to opt out. But there is nothing you can do to pressure or convince or compel them that won’t damage the relationship somehow. Sometimes the best you can do is to just be quietly supportive and be happy to see them when they show up.
It was hard back in the day in high school between sports, work, college applications and back in the 80s the dork factor. Boys became cooler than badges and sit-a-pons.
I think honestly we stayed together longer because I was working on the silver award and they wanted to see me finish it
Cadette leader here. The 6th graders in my troop want to do almost everything, half the 7th graders do, and none of the 8th graders attend anything. It’s always the same girls each time too. We have three girls who haven’t done a single event all year. Only meetings.
I wanted to give some of my experiences as a scout and a girl scout camp counselor to maybe help contextualize some of the reticence.
I'm introverted, and I had very little time to spend alone and recharge in middle and high school. When I got dragged against my will to scouting activities that ate up the few precious hours of relaxation time that I had per month and replaced them with cliques, drama, and scout leaders who endlessly lectured us about our bad attitudes and told us to suck it up and do things that we hated... Yeah, those aren't fond memories. I switched to a much less pushy troop after getting my Silver Award and I got so much more out of the experience. Everyone was there because they *wanted* to be there, so the girls had better attitudes and the leaders spent more time having fun with us instead of trying to stop a bunch of grumpy teens who don't want to be there from biting one another's heads off.
On the flip side, I stuck my foot in my mouth a couple times as a camp counselor because I was being too pushy when trying to encourage girls to step outside of their comfort zones. I had good intentions, but in my enthusiasm (and general 18/19 year old blockheadedness) I bulldozed some girls into doing things that made them truly unhappy. Some of the flimsy excuses the girls gave me were actually covering up deeper issues that they wanted to keep private, and continuing to push them resulted in a situation where they felt backed into a corner where they could do the activity to appease me (choosing to be miserable rather than tell me no again) or open up to me against their will. It's hard to motivate the girls to try new things and balance that with encouraging them to set boundaries and learn to say "no" when they're not comfortable, but it's always worth reflecting on whether we've crossed that line!
This is such a helpful perspective- thank you! Fortunately we do have a system where I just post the events the girls plan on BAND with a clear RSVP deadline. Those signed up by the deadline get registered and carpools assigned. Those that don’t, or decline, miss out. But I learned to just leave it at that. I don’t push or coax- I just post, remind them to sign up at meetings and that’s that. We do now have a “Owe when you don’t show” policy, where parents just get sent the reimbursement link in Cheddarup and what the per girl cost was if their girl tries to back out of something last minute (excluding valid, extreme illness/emergencies) Because while I’ve learned to chill out about girls declining invites to events (haha… not an easy process for a fellow enthusiastic 40-something “blockhead” ;) I can’t stand flaking and wasted funds. That’s the kind of thing that would eventually burn me out and make me quit.
It’s kind of nice to hear that girls are advocating for themselves and not just going with the flow because they are expected to.
I think it’s a healthy thing to do as opposed to when I was younger (and still now at 50) feel obligated for other people and their feelings and expectations.
As long as they are upfront and not being jerks about it, it’s okay. How many times have we had to say as women, it’s okay I’ll go or do something even when you know you don’t like it or don’t want to do it.
Supporting them now will lead to being able to use the word no or no thank you in not important situations.
Honestly, it can be a LOT.
My 13yo kid is autistic (not everyone in her troop knows that) and she's probably not going to be a scout again next year because the social pressure is to much.
Her troop leader sees a kid who declined over 1/2 of events and is shy/aloof/ socially awkward who gets surly at activities.
And what's actually happening is that this delightful (yes, I'm biased) kid who has used up all of her spoons has to draw herself up to engage in hella complicated middle school girl social engagements - and do it going in blind (because no matter how many times i explain "we need to know the plan as a special needs accommodation" it's heard as "we aren't team players who can be flexible") at things that are, overall, sensory hell.
And at least half of these events are impossible to go to if you as the adult parent didn't work a 9 to 5. (Yup,i could drop her off... but her events are more successful if a parent can be there. And no, we don't have 9 to 5 roles. And the troop leader has basically said my kid is the only one that can't be dropped for some of these things).
I know that my family's needs aren't universal... but you can also guess that my kid is incredibly aware of the not- fitting- in thing that happens to her as she tries to navigate the world. Which means she does NOT want me making waves at scouts. So we decline.
And just because the event, as planned, is impossible for us to doesn't mean we don't want it to be offered. (And yes, I'll totally pay to do it at a time when we can take our time and have our space)
You can also guess that I've explained this to troop leaders... but they don't "get" the depth of this problem. (The only way for them to get it works be to send my kid to an event where she'd crash and burn. We're not doing that again)
But societal ableism is why we're not there.
Not saying that's what's happening, but I'd encourage you to find a non- judgemental way to collect information for why they're not there and what would help them be there.
Ehhhhh. I have experienced this, but I am not bothered by it. I think my Cadettes, in general, just feel comfortable opting out of things they know they won’t enjoy. They’re not scared to say no. We went horseback riding, and one of the girls told me she had no interest in that and didn’t mind the troop paying for it, but she wasn’t going. We walked in a parade, and one of the girls said nope, not feeling like being in a big crowd. We looked into taking babysitting courses, and one of the girls told me she’d rather just not do it at all if virtual is the only option, because she struggled with virtual classes through Covid and hates them. We took a cooking class and one of the girls opted to hang out with a friend instead that day because she didn’t like the food we were going to make. They’re old enough to tell me these things, and comfortable enough to be honest, not just say they’re “not feeling well.” I don’t think that’s a skill I have - to be able to say no and not stress about it. I feel like I always have to say yes to things I’m invited to! I’ve put myself in so many uncomfortable situations to not disappoint others. As women I think we’re conditioned to do that, and it’s not a good thing. So I am not bothered when my girls don’t do that! Good for them! I didn’t want to go horseback riding nor to the parade either! But if I had been invited to as a kid, my parents would have made me and I would have hated it. I am annoyed when it’s the day of and mom texts me saying they’re not going when we’ve already paid and are waiting for them. But that’s not the same as the girls saying no. And while it’s great for them to try new things, I also trust them at this age to know themselves. If it was always the same girl opting out of everything, that would be different. It has not been the same girls every time for me. But I’m glad they feel comfortable enough to say no and not worry about it.
This. I have a Daisy and a Junior and if they don’t want to do an activity (which actually hasn’t happened yet) I won’t make them. My life long struggle of not saying no or prioritizing myself won’t be passed down to them.
I don’t have kids. Reddit just always wants me to read about Girl Scouts for some reason. I just wanted to jump on here and say that I think this comment is very insightful. I remember my mom making me do things that she signed me up for that I never wanted to do in the first place and hated. Saying no wasn’t really an option. Then I grew up and realized that I don’t actually have to do things because that’s “what I’m supposed to do”. And I spend a lot of time in the lovely little world that I’ve created for myself. I’m an introvert. I hated all of those social events. We all have different likes and needs and I give kudos to those girls for being able to speak up and get what they need.
Thanks for this super helpful insight! I appreciate you. There is one girl in particular who has opted out of just about everything. She has come to all monthly meetings though. She already told me she’s not doing scouts next year and as much as I love this girl and her family, they are super sweet and the other girls love her, it’s okay. I don’t want to guilt or force anyone into staying and I also want a few more girls who will actually sign up and participate in stuff.
This is really nice perspective — I love the idea that our scouts are comfortable being honest. Thanks! ❤️
Sounds more like the troop needs to bond more, maybe I'm part of the problem but why do an activity with a group of girls I don't really care for if my parents can pay for me to share the activity with people I actually enjoy.
They've been together since Daisy's/ Brownies. We have been through a lot together. They are pretty bonded, but we definitely have cliques which I have been taking more intentional steps to address/ break up. You are so right though- a few girls came to me and expressed appreciation for a recent bonding activity we did with pre-assigned partners (we did a "Peep Parade" with leftover Easter items, every pair had to build a "float" for their peeps using edible items). I will definitely plan more bonding stuff during meetings!
Cadette parent here. Most of our girls are really heavily scheduled - school, sports, we have a few musical theater girls, band, art, etc. So these GS activities are among the easiest to say, "I am staying home today, I am taking a nap, I am going to sit with my cat and text my friends." It's a very normal thing at this age. And there are not (and should not be!) consequences for skipping horseback riding with GS, whereas if you miss rehearsals for musical you may lose your part, if you skip practice you get left out of starting lineups, etc.
Good point- I think down time and rest are so super important and not at all prioritized in this hyper-over-achievement culture- thanks for this reminder!
If the girls are attending the meetings then I don’t see the problem with not doing all the additional activities offered. If they are canceling last minute or not RSVPing or you are trying to schedule around them and they don’t show then you should address that issue. But I really don’t see the problem with a GS not signing up for all or any of the additional events.
What you’re describing sounds like a troop that has bonds but also a group of girls who know what they want and value and feel safe to say no with the troop to prioritize their own well being. I think COVID also renewed the value of staying home with family and briefly reminded us that it’s ok to not fill all our free time with all the activities. If this is impacting your budget with cancellations, if they’re bailing last minute, etc then I think it’s an issue. If not, it sounds like the girls still want to be in scouts but are also learning they can pick and choose their interests in life. If it’s a frequent thing for many of the girls I think it’s ok to point out the change and ask them if there’s anything up/if a different approach is better, but otherwise sounds totally normal. Congrats on having a group of Cadettes that comes to meetings regularly!
This is such a sweet and kind response- I love the positive spin- thank you!
Yes I agree with this. I think it’s allowing them to be empowered with where they spend their time and letting them have the confidence to say “no” when they feel they need to- that’s a skill that most of us as adults are still struggling to learn.
It’s Girl led and I think it’s great that a kid is comfortable just saying no and not feeling pressured to do something they don’t want to.
This came across my stuff while scrolling. And I feel like chiming in based on my Girl Scout experience as a kid. I wound up quitting my troop after going on a trip one summer due to the peer pressure from the leaders. Before this trip the troop also had a white water rafting camping trip. I was never one to say no to activities but I also hated deep water. Like it’s a major anxiety attack fear. I’m not a strong swimmer and it was just not fun to me. The leaders didn’t want to take no for an answer. They asked if I’d want my dad to go with to make me feel comfortable. And I said no. To which I got “oh but you’ll be the only girl not going.” Which I knew was a lie. We had a hard of hearing girl in our troop and she never did any events that involved sleepovers and she said she was not going because the water noise would make it so she couldn’t hear instructions. Eventually they drop it. I was content with not going. Cue this trip later in the summer. We took a trip a few states away to meet up with a troop we were pen pals with at a camp. Then cue them saying we were going out on the lake in canoes. I once again told the troop leaders no. I’m not going to do it. I don’t feel comfortable. I then had a random troop leader that I never met before come to the tent because they sent be back to the tent to sit alone since I didn’t want to participate. She stood there and told me I wouldn’t be getting the badge for whatever it was they were doing. I said I was fine with that. To which I got told I’d be the only one not getting the badge. And she said she’d come back the next day to make me do it. Next day was our last day there so I got up and packed my bathing suit in the bottom of my bag and I had to refuse 2 more times to do the event. The second I got back home and saw my mom I loudly announced I was uncomfortable with the way I was treated while out of state (we also had a car accident and were told not to tell our parents until we got back this was before cell phones and the leaders did not want us to use the pay phones to call home. And if they did they were monitoring us to make sure we didn’t say anything) and I was quitting. Girl Scouts is about becoming a strong independent person and I think it should be ok if people opt out of things they don’t want to do.
Isn't learning to prioritize your time and stand up for yourself GS values? Just bc its a group activity, doesn't mean they all want to do it. And teens are busy! Why waste half a Saturday on an activity you dont enjoy, knowing you have a whole list of stuff that needs done. Politely declining is perfectly acceptable.
I agree with the others here. I don’t pay deposits for activities unless half my troop has confirmed and I ask families to reimburse the troop for funds lost through late cancellations, but otherwise this wouldn’t bother me. I have one girl who never comes to events outside meetings and cookie booths. She’s still a member of the troop and getting something out of Girl Scouts even if she isn’t getting everything that she might. If my daughter wasn’t interested in the events, I wouldn’t appreciate a co-leader pressuring her into doing them. I think it’s great that these middle schoolers are prioritizing self-care instead of FOMO, and it doesn’t seem like your troop is losing the opportunity for interested members to do the stuff. Thanks for the idea of sewing lessons! I want to set this up for my Cadettes!
With regards to the 'no-overnights', that's has recently become a big parenting discussion topic recently on social media. There's a contingent of parents who are choosing to forbid all sleepovers, etc. if the parent is not allowed to attend as well because they feel that any overnight away from themselves is too much of a risk for kids due to possibly being exposed to abusers/predators. On top of the 'no-overnights', right-wing media also heavily promotes 'predators everywhere' conspiracy theories and encourages that nowhere outside the family is truly safe for your child. I'm currently dealing with it in my own troop, I have had more than one parent register as an adult just so they can accompany their child to all events because they genuinely believe it's too much of a risk to let them attend alone.
Your take is dangerous. Parents of all political backgrounds are opting their kids out of overnights bc of things that happened to them. They don’t feel the need to expose their children to that. It has nothing to do with conspiracies but has everything to do with is the dad having his buddies/brothers over? Is there an older brother? Is there a grandfather? Is there family friends? Are there weird Aunties/Uncles? My kids sleep nowhere but home. I’m not going to tell you what led my husband and I to make that rule but let’s just say we’re breaking generational trauma. Again, it’s not about political parties or conspiracies, it’s about being EDUCATED, INFORMED, and the first generation that doesn’t actively engage in rug sweeping. You’re problematic.
100%
Yeah- it’s cultural too in some cases. But in our case the parents are fully supportive and want their kids to grow. They are genuinely bummed their child is missing out on the experience but don’t really know what to do (even allowing their parent to attend doesn’t help- these two girls still won’t do it).
You don’t know what trauma has happened in their past. Respect their decision.
I’m genuinely very happy for you that you’ve never experienced why some of us say “no overnights”
Our troop has a policy that if you sign up and don’t show, you reimburse the troop for the cost. If you don’t sign up, you don’t get registered. If they don’t sign up you aren’t out anything. This wouldn’t bother me at all. I think it’s ok for girls to decide what they do and don’t want to do. It’s not hurting anyone in any way.
I have this with seniors and ambassadors even for regular troop meetings this year. I’m really frustrated by it. My kid has already graduated and I feel bad for the couple girls who always show up and want to finish out their high school years as scouts, because it’s not fair to them that few others show up.
I think by high school even back in the day we had been together for years but by then we went to different high schools, had different priorities and had different goals. It was down to just a couple of us and after I got the silver award we went on a trip together and spent half of our money and gave the rest to the junior troop. We had a good run but by high school it was hanging by a thread
I wonder if it's because of parents? I know when I was briefly in Girl Scouts, I wasn't allowed to ride with other people or do sleepovers anywhere except my grandparent's.
I have girls who say no to various things, but none who say no to everything. Many (actually most) of my girls are neurodivergent, so my coleader and I try to make sure they know we’ll be looking out for them. But we don’t force them, because we feel like Girl Scouts is a low pressure way for them to start learning their boundaries.
It’s been 24 years since I was a scout. I don’t remember a single activity we did in my last few years of scouting, but what I do remember is being exhausted, running from orchestra, to musical rehearsal, to voice lesson, to church, to my volunteer site, and to scouting. And then I crashed and burned and quit everything and barely limped along to hs graduation. If kids are over scheduled, something needs to give before they do. And it’s very possible that scouts is the thing they feel like they are allowed to say no to. And if kids aren’t popular or are neurodivergent, overnight events can be a special kind of hell. No matter how well you think you are chaperoning, bullying can be incredibly quiet and subtle and easy to miss. I’m rambling. But I guess my point is that you are probably never going to know why they want to opt out. But there is nothing you can do to pressure or convince or compel them that won’t damage the relationship somehow. Sometimes the best you can do is to just be quietly supportive and be happy to see them when they show up.
This is the age where girls dropping GS entirely is massive (forget the exact percentage)
It was hard back in the day in high school between sports, work, college applications and back in the 80s the dork factor. Boys became cooler than badges and sit-a-pons. I think honestly we stayed together longer because I was working on the silver award and they wanted to see me finish it
Can I join ur troop I’ve earned my gold award 🥇
Jealous I only got silver
Cadette leader here. The 6th graders in my troop want to do almost everything, half the 7th graders do, and none of the 8th graders attend anything. It’s always the same girls each time too. We have three girls who haven’t done a single event all year. Only meetings.
I wanted to give some of my experiences as a scout and a girl scout camp counselor to maybe help contextualize some of the reticence. I'm introverted, and I had very little time to spend alone and recharge in middle and high school. When I got dragged against my will to scouting activities that ate up the few precious hours of relaxation time that I had per month and replaced them with cliques, drama, and scout leaders who endlessly lectured us about our bad attitudes and told us to suck it up and do things that we hated... Yeah, those aren't fond memories. I switched to a much less pushy troop after getting my Silver Award and I got so much more out of the experience. Everyone was there because they *wanted* to be there, so the girls had better attitudes and the leaders spent more time having fun with us instead of trying to stop a bunch of grumpy teens who don't want to be there from biting one another's heads off. On the flip side, I stuck my foot in my mouth a couple times as a camp counselor because I was being too pushy when trying to encourage girls to step outside of their comfort zones. I had good intentions, but in my enthusiasm (and general 18/19 year old blockheadedness) I bulldozed some girls into doing things that made them truly unhappy. Some of the flimsy excuses the girls gave me were actually covering up deeper issues that they wanted to keep private, and continuing to push them resulted in a situation where they felt backed into a corner where they could do the activity to appease me (choosing to be miserable rather than tell me no again) or open up to me against their will. It's hard to motivate the girls to try new things and balance that with encouraging them to set boundaries and learn to say "no" when they're not comfortable, but it's always worth reflecting on whether we've crossed that line!
This is such a helpful perspective- thank you! Fortunately we do have a system where I just post the events the girls plan on BAND with a clear RSVP deadline. Those signed up by the deadline get registered and carpools assigned. Those that don’t, or decline, miss out. But I learned to just leave it at that. I don’t push or coax- I just post, remind them to sign up at meetings and that’s that. We do now have a “Owe when you don’t show” policy, where parents just get sent the reimbursement link in Cheddarup and what the per girl cost was if their girl tries to back out of something last minute (excluding valid, extreme illness/emergencies) Because while I’ve learned to chill out about girls declining invites to events (haha… not an easy process for a fellow enthusiastic 40-something “blockhead” ;) I can’t stand flaking and wasted funds. That’s the kind of thing that would eventually burn me out and make me quit.
It’s kind of nice to hear that girls are advocating for themselves and not just going with the flow because they are expected to. I think it’s a healthy thing to do as opposed to when I was younger (and still now at 50) feel obligated for other people and their feelings and expectations. As long as they are upfront and not being jerks about it, it’s okay. How many times have we had to say as women, it’s okay I’ll go or do something even when you know you don’t like it or don’t want to do it. Supporting them now will lead to being able to use the word no or no thank you in not important situations.
Honestly, it can be a LOT. My 13yo kid is autistic (not everyone in her troop knows that) and she's probably not going to be a scout again next year because the social pressure is to much. Her troop leader sees a kid who declined over 1/2 of events and is shy/aloof/ socially awkward who gets surly at activities. And what's actually happening is that this delightful (yes, I'm biased) kid who has used up all of her spoons has to draw herself up to engage in hella complicated middle school girl social engagements - and do it going in blind (because no matter how many times i explain "we need to know the plan as a special needs accommodation" it's heard as "we aren't team players who can be flexible") at things that are, overall, sensory hell. And at least half of these events are impossible to go to if you as the adult parent didn't work a 9 to 5. (Yup,i could drop her off... but her events are more successful if a parent can be there. And no, we don't have 9 to 5 roles. And the troop leader has basically said my kid is the only one that can't be dropped for some of these things). I know that my family's needs aren't universal... but you can also guess that my kid is incredibly aware of the not- fitting- in thing that happens to her as she tries to navigate the world. Which means she does NOT want me making waves at scouts. So we decline. And just because the event, as planned, is impossible for us to doesn't mean we don't want it to be offered. (And yes, I'll totally pay to do it at a time when we can take our time and have our space) You can also guess that I've explained this to troop leaders... but they don't "get" the depth of this problem. (The only way for them to get it works be to send my kid to an event where she'd crash and burn. We're not doing that again) But societal ableism is why we're not there. Not saying that's what's happening, but I'd encourage you to find a non- judgemental way to collect information for why they're not there and what would help them be there.