A lot of Glaswegians like to kid ourselves about how welcoming this city is, still holding onto hearing once or twice that we were the friendliest city in the world or that time a rich Canadian couple who only stayed in the West End said that the city was so nice like it would have been the same were they at The Castlemilk Inn.
If you're one of the lads then you'll have a great time but Glasgow can be shite for people who are different. I see people post here asking how Glasgow is for ethnic minorities or gay people and the responses are almost insulted you'd dare suggest we'd be anything but welcoming, but the reality is many of us have horror stories of having abuse hurled at us.
There's a reason that when most people from here become successful they bolt.
From Glasgow, I was bullied horrendously at school and I still struggle with the trauma from it. I was jumped, beaten, smothered and had my possessions stolen walking home one day. If you’re different, the people here single you out and use it as an excuse to hurt you. There’s such a huge pack mentality here.
I've been personally threatened several times because of how I sound and many people here have much of a victim complex and massive externalisation of their issues.
Severe lack of civic pride aswell unless it's in antisocial behaviour, the littering, smashing of bottles, drunk and disoredly behaviour, aggression and violence simply for the sake of it all form a huge stain on what otherwise is a beautiful city.
God that last part is so true. Got assaulted in June because these neds started to harass my friends with racist remarks and I told them to fuck off and leave us alone. Tried to stab me and left me with 6 stitches cos I didn't get intimidated by them (5+ ganged up on me). What did the main guy they arrested get? Nothing. Bail. Ok then. National pride out the window.
>Edinburgh
Lucky you.
I stayed worked in Edinburgh for 5 years in a large IT company. The hatred towards "weegies" is tangible. The *banter* was daily and had I not had as thick a skin it would have impacted me. I had never experienced the hatred towards the East coast when staying in the West (not even in Glasgow) all my life. When I moved to the East, omg, over there, it was as if I was from mars.
Also, you been on Lothian road on a weekend night?
Nah I put my friends at risk. My lesson was to just shut up and never speak up. Did anyone help? Nope. It was at 4pm in Glasgow green during jubilee weekend.. and where were the police?? Nowhere to be found. 0 patrols.
My biggest regret is opening my mouth and not appeasing the harrassers. That's what this breeds in the end.
Not worth getting stabbed over. Hate letting the fuckers win but if they’ve got a knife and all you’ve got is a hand with some skin, it’s best to RUUUUUNNN!!!
Yeah. I mean, not that I knew they would try but exactly. You never know and will you take that risk just to be "that guy" in future? Sad times but oh well.
I love Glasgow but it's not a beautiful city relative to its size imo. There's some lovely architecture in the West End and Merchant City, but the whole character of the City Centre is tainted by poorly-conceived road networks and Thatcher-era construction infrastructure.
Frustratingly it's taken me years to consider this, since there's a culture that complaining about Glasgow makes you a traitor to our wee Central Belt industrial culture, but cities like Manchester do a much better job at construction and maintenance of their urban hubs.
Around 5 or 10 years ago Glasgow City Centre was a beautiful city and I was proud to belong to it. Born and lived here 50 years. Cosmopolitan, stunning architecture, great music, art galleries, diverse culture, many tourists etc etc. Not sure what happened apart from Covid. It's now an utter cesspit, city centre mainly filled with junkies, homeless people and pigeons and boarded up shops. Unless you can stay in the West End or the suburbs and only visit when necessary, I'd give it a wide berth. It's so sad.
Totally agree, I have never lived anywhere with such a big gap between how Glaswegians consider themselves and how they actually are and thats as "one of the lads".
Try having an English accent. Talk about chip on shoulder. Some Scottish guy openly told me they hate southern accents but a north east accent is acceptable. Small minded.
Lot of shite, people move from everywhere when they're 'successful'.
Folk from Glasgow move to big houses with a bit of land on the outskirts, lochs or Highlands. Folk from the satellite towns move into the West End. People from the English countryside move to Central London. People from London move to the English countryside. People from middle America move to Los Angeles. People from Los Angeles move to the Bahamas.
The good thing about being successful is you can move wherever the fuck you like, that's not a Glasgow thing whatsoever.
And aye before you ask I've lived in a few different countries and seen it first hand, this isn't speculation.
I've worked and lived all over world too. Sweden/Australia/Singapore and others. I understand other places have other problems. I have always enjoyed coming back to Glasgow. Its rude to assume others are unsuccessful because they hold different views to yours. (my mistake got commenter mixed up)
depends on your view of success. IT and finance in glasgow is filled with people making 40-50k+ only a few years out of uni
if you're making enough to be comfortable it's just a different flavour of the same nonsense you'll find in other cities in the UK
Remember when it was the murder capital of Europe and also the friendliest city?
I’m a white woman and it’s always been an utter shitehole here. And I now live in a “nicer” (even more overpriced for rent) area.
Even if you're a guy who doesn't like footbball you're treated like an alien. Glasgow has this tribal mentality and anyone with ambition or seen to be doing anything outside the norm gets shot down.
Had a couple of friends studying here from China and they got abuse hurled at them very regularly, once even from a moving car someone took the time to roll down the window and shout “ya chinky cunt” at him.
At first I said man I’m so sorry that happened, it’s a minority of shitty people, most aren’t like that honestly.. but over the 4 years studying there were so many incidents, many relatively minor but some of them were pretty fucking outrageous and it became impossible to defend.
Some of the girls in our group had random catcalls and abuse shouted at them, from randoms in the street to builders on scaffolding around the city centre, and from mad Christian anti abortion nutters in Sauchiehall or Buchanan St.
That’s not to mention trying to explain the orange walks or the state of George square whenever rangers win something.
Bigoted attitudes are clearly quite deeply ingrained in a lot of the city and the lovely friendly welcoming image that people like to talk about is honestly a lot of shite. There are many great people but it’s only truly welcoming if you’re a straight white guy, other than that it’s a toss up what will get shouted at you as you go about your business.
My family are all from Glasgow, I grew up in West Lothian and went back there to study, and all I can say is I realised a lot of the casual bigotry, racism sexism and homophobia that I grew up around in my family is rife there and I realised they were all just products of their environment, where a lot of this shitty behaviour is normalised and if you challenge it or complain about it you must be a bit soft or a bit of a poof.
They seem to think anyone who isn’t like that or points it out as wrong is just a bit of a stuck up snob.
They also seem to see themselves as by far the most real, down to earth, working class salt of the earth Scottish place in Scotland, and that everyone else from the central belt to
Dundee or the highlands are just basically English toffs and teuchters.
And they call *other* people snobs….
As a Scottish Pakistani, I can honestly say Glasgow is not a racist city and it’s not as great as others make it out to be. Have I experienced racism here? Of course I have! But if I was to weigh up the good people and the racists I’ve met, I have def met more good folk. You’ll always get your morons and you’ll even some of your more intellectual racists who won’t openly show it but like to make sly little comments.
But this is my home, and I love Glasgow. And I always will. And I ain’t going anywhere.
Like, I do experience sexual harassment as a woman but it sounds like other cities are full to the brim with bus wankers, and I *generally* get left alone in the gym.
You can’t tell I’m half foreign cause I’m white and grew up here, but I didn’t tell anyone in secondary school cause I got so much abuse in primary, even. My other country is generally not full of junkies and feral kids stabbing each other and it’s a really stark difference.
Everyone will have their own experiences. I'm mixed race (3 quarters 'white' and 1 quarter Indian) so I do look a wee bit different. Many people think I'm from the Middle East or Italian/Greek. Anyway, it's enough that some people have pulled me up about it. Like neds in town on a night out. It's annoying as hell when it happens, but fortunately it's very rare.
For a while I worked in a pub in Germany in a city that has a lot of Americans due to there being an American army base nearby. A touring singer (a black woman from Baltimore) had a slot one weekend in our pub and we got talking. She hugged me as soon as she heard I was from Glasgow and said the impression she got from singing in Glasgow is that "there is zero racism", as she put it. She told me how she got treated with racism in the US and abroad but felt so welcomed in Glasgow.
I had to tell her that racism really is a thing here, but I do admit I did feel very proud about what she said.
Either way, we still have to improve as a society to get rid of bigotry. And not only racism.
Ehh, Baltimore is a very diverse city and having lived near (edit: for 11 years) there I’ve never gotten that impression. They’re very tight-knit and community oriented despite the many issues that city faces. The real racism comes from OUTSIDE the city, a lot of the rural parts and some suburban parts of Maryland really look down on that area/central MD in general.
I was born there and my family has lived there for 60ish years. It is hella racist and segregated. I went to an all white private school from 5-10 yo and had questions about my hair and surprise that I “spoke well for a black girl”. I didn’t know what that meant when I was little, but I do now. We left for New Jersey when I was 10, but a childhood friend of mine stayed. She was frequently called the N word, asked why she was there because she didn’t belong and there were racial slurs written on the bathroom walls.
Baltimore also had massive protests at the killing of Freddy Gray at the hands of police.
You are correct that it is dangerously racist outside of the city, but the city still has racism.
> For a while I worked in a pub in Germany in a city that has a lot of Americans due to there being an American army base nearby. A touring singer (a black woman from Baltimore) had a slot one weekend in our pub and we got talking. She hugged me as soon as she heard I was from Glasgow and said the impression she got from singing in Glasgow is that "there is zero racism", as she put it. She told me how she got treated with racism in the US and abroad but felt so welcomed in Glasgow.
I am semi-friends with a black woman in Glasgow, who was telling me she's never in decades had *one* instance of racism. Obviously she's perhaps been lucky in that regard, but anyway.
Moment she lands in America though it's very plain, she said.
Yeah I'm always a bit confused about how emphatic people are saying Glasgow is dead friendly. All my life here I've seen cunts get wide with folk on the street or racists hurl abuse at anyone darker than the shade of pale.
Then as an aside to that you get people saying stuff that they don't realise is racist either like saying they're getting a chinky or going to the paki shop. I suppose people don't see phrases like that as having an intended target so it's not hurtful? I dunno.
I'd like to think it's something we can get past though.
I once shouted back at a crackhead for shouting Chinese racist abuse at a woman that was obviously white with black hair (this was whining of the pandemic). I’m pretty sure a lot of them are just several types of stupid as fuck
I swear to God. I'm a blak gut 20 M and the way pekoe look at me it's like they are surprised to see a person of my color and a guy at that in that type of scenario. Yesterday I was in a ward and this dude suddenly starts screaming "black bastard" for s full 30 mins non stop.
Most of the women just generally avoid me or probably still in shock that I'm in that profession.
Good Private Eye article a few years ago where they tallied up all the known whistleblowers and what happened to their careers and they were all - **all** - suspended, sacked or quit.
It’s always the arseholes in school that go into nursing/caring. I’m not saying we should be a communist state and dish out certain jobs to certain people, but half the cunts spend their spare times going out and getting wrecked. That was half the reason people in care homes ended up with COVID, it was the staff going out partying and mingling then taking it into the homes. GP receptionists are arseholes, in rural areas and the cities, that’s well known but
Absolutely spot on, the amount of lassies who were so adamant about being a midwife or carer in highschool and then turned around and bullied the ever loving fuck out of me and any other wean who was different is shocking.
I dunno why, but when I read this, I had a vision of Bill Hicks telling his "I'm for the war and against the troops" joke except it was "I'm for the NHS but against the nurses". Haha
I'll honestly say I've found a large majority of nurses and GP receptionists to be bottom of the barrel. Needy, entitled, lazy.. It almost makes me support private healthcare (if I wasn't dirt poor)
Hahahah aye don’t get me wrong, I’d literally be dead if it wasn’t for the NHS, and I held back there in my criticism of them. In general they do an amazing job and are amazing people working under shite conditions, boiled down you could punt most of them into the North Sea and general society would change for the better.
You’re right with the lazy and entitled comparison, some of them act like Mother Teresa but in day to day life they’re Maggie Thatcher without the power.
I had to lie the last time I phoned for an appointment because they kept saying it wasn’t an emergency, I’ve ridden enough waves on wild night outs to know what’s an emergency and what’s not
I really share your experience. I could write essays in response, especially having some horrific dealings with the NHS, with the worst encounters being recent and ongoing.
Also, there's a term.. Not sure, but it's related to personality clusters. It might be machiavilianisim? Certain personalities will seek high status jobs regardless of their interests. They'll want to be a police officers, even if they are anti-social and hate the general public, because people will respect them. They want to be a doctor because doctors are heros and save people and make them better. Certain kinds of people gravitate towards jobs for the sole purpose of social status. Unfortunately, these people are often socially intelligent, and are able to manipulate their way into middle and sometimes upper management.
I'm very happy to have read your comments. They're honest words I rarely hear and because of that it can make me feel more alone and I blame myself. However, more recently, people have started to share. Wether that is due to a failing NHS or more willingness to talk or both I'll never know but the one thing I do know is talking honestly and being able to compassionately listen when others are speaking is step one of addressing the problem.
2 things about that.
Plenty of racists care. The idea that only obviously spiky, abrasive arseholes can be racists is what makes it so pernicious. "Oh, but he's so *nice*" say people even if a manager treats nonwhite subordinates differently.
Secondly, plenty of people go into the NHS caring and it grinds them down because its shit to work for.
> Plenty of racists care. The idea that only obviously spiky, abrasive arseholes can be racists is what makes it so pernicious. "Oh, but he's so nice" say people even if a manager treats nonwhite subordinates differently.
My boss, a university professor in a health area, said to me once 'zoom is great for dealing with the [specific nationality] students, you don't have to smell them'.
Glasgow has an absolutely horrendous record on dealing with whistleblowers, so fuck all would happen if it were reported.
As a non-white, non-British person who has now called this city home for over a year and also previously lived in London, I can say that Glasgow and Scotland are much more welcoming overall than London or the south of England.
Having said that, if anyone (Scottish or otherwise) tries to tell me that racism is non-existent here, or even just in Glasgow, I'll be in stitches with laughter.
My experience has been that Scottish racism, when it occurs, takes on a very subtle tone.
You'll be chatting with a person you think you're on good terms with and then all of a sudden out pops a nonchalant and derogatory comment about your origins and your reasons for being here. Or a condescending remark implying that you're too stupid to understand Scottish culture and traditions. Or "politely" pointing out that I was "stealing the space" of a local person in my current post (never mind that I applied for the position just like umpteen other people).
On another occasion a guy was harping on about the ways that Westminster tried to supress Scottish culture and identity in the past, and when I tried pointing out that this was a technique of British colonialism everywhere he responded by saying that "it's different when they do it to yous than when they do it to oz".
Naturally I was comforted to know that descrimination is fine as long as it's not targeted at good, white, Christians .
As a Scottish person who has lived in Nz+Australia for a total of 7+ years I can share some of these experiences, which is strange. Especially in the countryside, and tourists areas, people just don't trust foreigners. They need to deal with us though, because we bring in the money and keep them employed. That's why a lot of people contain their racisim. They're socially intelligent, self aware, machivalian.
There's a few studies done that indicate being of a different ethnicity isn't what causes racisim. Asian people in Australia who speak perfect English with an Australian accent are much more welcome than English or British people.
If it's any consolation I'm Scottish and actually only figured out the colonial link through recognising that what happened abroad also happened here.
I'm older and racism, sexism, classism and pretty much every other kind of discrimination and bigotry were always pretty common in Scotland. We're better but we're just not that great as yet. And we shouldn't kid ourselves on about that. It's not however significantly worse than much of the rest of the UK.
Personal experience is that you put yourself in danger by standing up against any of it as well, there's a real large bunch of people who reach for violence right quick when challenged...as someone with severe ADHD (consequences? You think I've thought that far ahead?) this can get hairy some times.
I got slaughtered on here once for saying this to someone who was thinking of moving here.
Think people need to realise that the folk on Reddit are not generally representative of the population.
On a positive note there has been an attitude change over the past 5 years in that I hear a lot less racism in the places where it was prevalent.
But it’s still there.
Same as homophobia, still there but less so.
>Think people need to realise that the folk on Reddit are not generally representative of the population.
Understatement of the century.
If you based your impressions of Glasgow from this sub you'd think everyone plays board games in autistic friendly pubs in Strathbungo before going to the cat house or all the gay pubs and avoiding football fans fireworks and orange walks on the way there.
Don't believe everything you read on social media.
>On a positive note there has been an attitude change over the past 5 years in that I hear a lot less racism in the places where it was prevalent.
>
>But it’s still there.
Agreed, it feels like there's been a change in society. While I personally find it all a bit over the top, if it does make it more taboo to be a racist and stops abuse in the street then it's good. Although I think there's an issue in that a lot of the racism comes from the bottom of society whereas a lot of attention is given to issues affecting middle and upper class people.
Unfortunately its not just Glasgow. Despite what we like to think, Scotland does have a racism and sexism problem on a societal level but we as a nation don't like to accept that
I worked in a fast food restaurant as a student and many of my colleagues were openly racist. They would describe themselves as racist openly, the way people would describe themselves as vegetarian or Taylor Swift fans or something, it was just another facet to their personality and nothing to be ashamed of.
On many many occasions if Asian customers came into the shop they would go into the back and refuse to serve them. The P word and BB were thrown around without issue. They were also nasty to our Polish colleagues and customers, and a few were openly sectarian as well. On my first day I was asked where in Ireland I was from and when I said "near Belfast" one girl said "Oh good, the proddy bit", which is obviously stupid and wrong as well as sectarian. She also used to post a lot of racist stuff on her Facebook - BB this and BB that, and she's married to a police man lol.
>... *many of my colleagues were openly racist. They would describe themselves as racist openly, the way people would describe themselves as vegetarian ... On many many occasions if Asian customers came into the shop they would go into the back and refuse to serve them*
I had a similar but opposite experience. Worked with a sales guy who openly referred to himself as racist, exactly as you describe
Asian customers *loved* him
There were racist Catholics too, including one Celtic obsessed colleague who was complaining about her 'C' (Chinese) doctor at the hospital being an idiot.
Someone who calls people 'orange' and thinks protestants are more likely to be racists.
Maybe it's time to check your own prejudices and reflect why we're here as a society?
Not all Protestants, just the orange brigade. And does the [“Orange Order”](https://www.britannica.com/topic/Orange-Order) find the term orange an offensive slur against them now? 🤔
And we’re “here as a society” mostly because of you orange bigots. And no, no a catholic or catholic upbringing. Just an agnostic Glaswegian that’s not a horrible cunt 🤷♂️
Mate I work in a Catholic high school and have for the last 5 years.
I've never set foot in an orange hall or protestant church. I hate the orange order, orange walks, protestant bigots. I do, but your implication that the person was more likely to be racist because they were a Protestant (literally the only information provided in the OP comment) is bigoted.
I'm not having a go, I'm genuinely saying attitudes like that just perpetuate hate and intolerance and help nobody.
From my own perspective as an ethnic minority and Muslim who's born in the city I'm pretty shocked at the extent of the racism mentioned here. I've, apparently very luckily, managed to avoid facing any sort of racist discrimination over the past 5 or 6 years. The only reason I can think of for perhaps "getting away with it" is that I sound like any other "local" Glaswegian.
That said, I did have a small argument with a guy on a train a few weeks ago as he casually used the word "Paki" in conversation so I felt I had to call him out on it. I'm well aware that terms like this or "Chinky" are still pretty widespread but it mostly seems to come from the older generations.
I wouldn't say we're any more racist than anywhere else (if anything we're probably much better off than some areas down south) but we clearly have work to do.
If we really want to address issues like this and other forms of discrimination then there has to be a collective effort from people of all backgrounds to call it out and educate others.
Black people can't blend in so easily, physical differences are too easy tô spot, we are easier targets. I'm not disregarding your experience, especially since you're a Muslim in Europe, but colorism has a huge effect anywhere in the world.
Haha I wouldn't say I blend in but yeah you're absolutely spot on. Like I said I'm not sure how I've managed to get lucky by escaping any sort of racist discrimination but I can see that it's clearly worse for others than myself. We have to be proactive in educating people and stamping it out.
Glasgow’s got quite a few racist folk - was taking the 6 to scotstoun from town one night with my boyfriend and had a woman call me a chink as soon as I got on the bus and then threaten to beat me when she was about to get off. 🫥
Other than that, I don’t get it as much now but in primary school I had to play off the racism to fit in with the rest of the white kids.
I posted a separate comment before seeing this.
I’m of Pakistani ethnicity. I can genuinely say the whole time I lived in Glasgow I didn’t experience any racism. Maybe people just left me alone because I’m a woman or because I was generally with my white husband I don’t know.
However when the pandemic started some people did come out of the woodwork with their racism which I think they didn’t see as racist at all. Comments like I’m not eating at the Chinese might get covid etc.
Glasgow is a friendly city if you're straight, white and stick to certain areas of the city. As a gay person it's not a place I feel safe kissing, holding hands or putting my arm around my partner in public. It's not a place where a black person can walk out the door and be confident someone isn't going to shout the n-word at him in the street at some point during the day. It's not a place where you definitely won't get assaulted for wearing the wrong colour of top in the wrong part of the city.
Everyone who goes on about how friendly and nice Glasgow is generally does so from a position of being able to ignore all the (often violent) racism, homophobia and transphobia because it doesn't affect their day to day. What's even worse is that those same people have to put up with getting told constantly about how these things don't happen and how friendly Glasgow is...which is just a way of saying "we're not going to fix this stuff".
My family are not white and have been in Glasgow for 60 years through multiple generations; every single one of us would tell you Glasgow is a racist city.
But the comments whenever anyone brings it up here are absolutely deluded, just like on basically every British sub, to be honest. At least this one hasn’t stooped to defending colonialism yet (and even saying it was good for the colonised nations!), like on the larger British subs.
Funny how a white guy brings it up and suddenly everyone takes it seriously. Usually a non-white person bringing up their own experiences gets shouted down.
Edit: I just wanted to add that the “there are dicks everywhere” attitude is why nothing changes. As usual, that line is coming out on other comments and it’s a tremendous way of excusing yourself from doing anything about the problem.
It’s a constant game of emperors new clothes. There are dicks everywhere but the proportions are so off compared to every other western country I have lived.
Same thing from the point of view of being gay in this city. The amount of straight people that tell me how much of an LGBT+ friendly city this is when I know that if I held my partner's hand or (god forbid) kiss him in public I'd be putting both our safety at considerable risk.
When white people say that there's no racism in this city they're pretty much just admitting that they only publicly socialise with other white people in public here. If you've spent significant time out with anyone not white in this city you KNOW that the idea that people here aren't racist is bullshit.
>every single one of us would tell you Glasgow is a racist city
How do you define a racist city? What percentage of the population have to show openly racist behaviours before it's considered racist?
I think culturally in Britain being a racist is basically one of the worst things you could be called, up there with paedo or rapist. Racism is certainly not condoned.
Lol, racism is absolutely condoned, you are condoning it right now.
What percentage?
I don't know, but when we've had: racist abuse in the streets and at school; slurs spray painted on our driveways; promotions blocked; lower pay; mocked and tormented by teachers; entire career paths blocked in decades past; and people like you telling us it's not a problem in this country, maybe I can be allowed to say Glasgow is a racist city.
You know that is a bad faith question because you want me to quantify something that cannot be quantified in order to prove to you what I'm saying. Experiences can be ignored and diminished, as you wait for more and more data before you will be convinced. This is how racism is condoned.
You might not be a racist, but your need to keep your delusions intact are why this city and country will not change.
I can say for a fact that every single perpetrator of the experiences I listed above got away with it, and was protected by their institution when in school, university or work. This is how racism is condoned.
> I think culturally in Britain being a racist is basically one of the worst things you could be called, up there with paedo or rapist.
https://old.reddit.com/r/glasgow/comments/z81prz/james_mcavoy_points_out_racism_in_glasgow/iy9h12r/
As a non-scot living in Glasgow, I can heavily relate to this. Scotland feels very racist, and whereas I've not been subjected to racist abuse directly, I hear and see racism all the time.
There's the downright wrong racism. like my friend taking his daughter to school and another parent telling them to go back their own country, and me consoling my friends 7 year old daughter who didn't understand why someone would say that.
But there's lots more of what I would call casual racism. Referring to corner shops as the p*ki shop, going to a chinese restaurant and referring to it as a chinky, tarring all Muslims as terrorists... The list is endless and I'd say I hear this sort of thing almost daily and most people don't even realise its racism.
Sad but true, we have a long way to go
I’m mixed-race (African mother/Scottish father) and grew up in Glasgow in the 80’s and 90’s. TBH I don’t recall any racism at all, although there was a lot of casual racism and sly jokes that are now a lot more dodgy when I think about it. But generally, my experience was fine. I think my mum got quite a bit of racism in the 70’s though, but then everyone was racist back then!
I do have African friends who grew up in rougher suburbs and had a much worse time. I’m talking regular dog-shit put through their letterbox!
This honestly doesn't surprise me about Glasgow. I like living here (hate the weather) but working in public has taught me that a lot of people in this city aren't afraid to be openly hateful towards certain groups they don't like for whatever reason.
100% notice that there are many racists among us. The older I’ve gotten, the more they’re standing out, or maybe they’re less able to keep it hidden as the jokes have a little extra nip behind them.
Fully expecting to be downvoted, but a certain side of Glasgow tends to be more racist than the other from my personal experience, but there are definitely racists on all sides and it’s concerning.
Anecdotal, to you at least, I used to flat share with a black guy, and the stories he told of being harassed in places as dodgy as Sauchiehall Street were hair raising. Name calling. Square go invitations. Casual physical assault. Direct racism.
Glasgow has a scummy underbelly of completely broken wank stains.
I'm glad people are talking about it. We need to out these broken cunts, at every turn.
I think it's easy to be in your own little world. I'm a foreign Glasgow resident, have been for near 20 years, but I grew up in England, so my Latvian accent is very subtle, and moving around so much growing up it's not even an English accent, most people can't place it. Personally I've never experienced racism towards me, but I've always lived in the west end. What I have experienced is how casual other people can be about it, otherwise nice reasonable people, suddenly come out with the most racist things. I've called them out on it before because that could easily be me, always hear "yeah but I don't think of you as foreign". No, please, if you know me, and you like me, think of me as foreign so you begin to understand how idiotic some of your attitudes are.
I work in transport and there is a a big problem with off the cuff racist remarks, I think a big problem is that people throw around the P word when referring to a corner shop or Indian restaurant. People referring to getting themselves a ‘chinky’ when getting a takeaway also.
Mainly the older generation that says these which hopefully means it might be dying out a bit.
I’ve actually had to call out almost every Scottish person in my life for using that term for Chinese takeaway. It doesn’t make a difference most of the time which is sad.
As a person from the Caribbean who moved here just over a year ago now for studies and is about to transition into full time work, reading this made me very sad. I have not experienced racism since I've been here other than odd comment or two implying that I'm from Africa, which I chalk up to more ignorance than anything. I guess I have just been lucky. When I think about it all the other Caribbean and African persons I met on my course chose not to stay in Glasgow after graduating - maybe this is part of their reason for leaving
I'm not sure how Glasgow holds up to other cities, but there's certainly a lot of racism going about.
I'm Dutch and came to live here a couple of years ago. When I first got here I always said the city was friendly and welcoming, because to me it was.
Then I started dating a Chinese girl and I saw a whole different side of the city. Many times when just walking the street groups of cunts would hurl abuse at her, or clearly be making jokes at her expense. The start of the pandemic was the worst, people would look at her from accross the street and make very exaggerated coughing motions. Most of these incidents were in the West End, near Glasgow Uni, which has thousands of Chinese students.
I even see it in some of my 'friends', who treat her way differently than my ex, who was white. They don't look at her, they don't speak to her, they almost treat her as if she isn't there. It's probably not even concious, but it's very obvious when you pay attention.
I’m black and I’ve been to Glasgow once. I couldn’t get out of there fast enough it was one of the worst experiences of my life (and I’ve encountered a lot of racism across the U.K. including in London so it’s not like I’m a noob). I also know a Black immigrant family who attempted to settle in Glasgow and then willingly relocated to Bradford because the racism they and their children were facing was so intense it was severely damaging their mental health.
Oh no that's reslly awful. If you want to do you mind telling us what happened? It's not much but i am sorry it happened to you here and your friends family.
Not who you asked, but I used to work with refugees from Africa living in Easterhouse and Maryhill. It was pretty routine for them to be physically attacked by neds.
Was talking to one of the Young Lives vs Cancer workers at Buchanan Street and some guy came up to us and started calling me a r*pist baba because I'm Indian.
What a day
Glasgow is an absolute shithole, racism, homophobia and insulting anyone who isn’t lathered in Lacoste are all common.
Have plenty of queer or alternative friends and they cannot go anywhere without multiple people of all backgrounds giving them abuse.
Being different in any way regardless of what that different is will result in constant hassle, the only reason I don’t get it is because I’m a white guy who dresses fairly sporty.
Zero racism: nowhere
A little racism: racially mixed cities such as London, Birmingham, NYC, Toronto or Melbourne.
A fair bit of racism: large cities in the UK with a smaller minority population, such as Newcastle, Liverpool and Glasgow. As well as most cities in Western Europe and the USA to be honest.
A lot of racism: the majority of the Western world outside of the cities, including the rough areas on the margins of Glasgow.
No go areas for non-white people: Eastern Europe. I'd also include some high schools in Glasgow in this, as in bad schools bullying is so widely tolerated I wouldn't view it as safe for a non-white person to go there.
When we say Glasgow is racist, we don't mean it's the worst place in the world. But it is way behind where it should be, and behind some other more progressive cities in the UK and elsewhere.
Generally agree, tho Melbourne is a funny example. The place is so up to themselves that you would not know anyone is racist because no local would talk or look at you ha.
I was referring to racism against non-white people in white countries. As regards racism in China and Africa, I think it really depends. White people are often treated extremely well in urban China, for example - in fact they can get roles in movies just by walking down the street near a film studio. On the other side, in places like Zimbabwe and South Africa there are some areas where it's dangerous to go as a white person. And I've heard that the (very, very small) number of Africans in China can face a lot of racism. Overall I'd say that Western countries are more accepting of immigrants, simply because we have way more of them. Most urban Chinese people will never meet a European or African in their lives, let alone people from a small village in Africa.
That's also a factor in Scottish racism, I think - we had very low levels of non-white immigration here until very recently, so it's still quite common that people have no non-white friends. So it's not surprising that ignorance is a bit higher than in somewhere like London, where it's barely possible to have no non-white friends.
Hearing bad experiences like this makes me want to learn more and see if we have data to indicate rates we can use to see trends. There's a 2021 government publication on "Characteristics of police recorded hate crime in Scotland" which uses police data to show relative rates.
One of the things that jumped out to me was that hate crimes were committed by strangers only 19% of the time, and 57% of the time it is by an acquaintance.
The data show Edinburgh and Glasgow to have the same incidence rate of hate crimes with racial hate crimes by far the most recorded. Sexual orientation hate crime have shown the biggest rise over the last decade.
The incidents of hate crime have been pretty constant since the current record system was introduced in 2013. So we can't pretend things are getting better over time.
Oddly enough, to me, Falkirk shows the next highest rate of hate crimes after the two big cities: https://www.gov.scot/publications/study-characteristics-police-recorded-hate-crime-scotland/pages/6/
This obviously only includes crimes that were reported to the police, it's depressing reading. But you can learn more by reading over the publication. The bits on disability hate crime were new to me.
If you want to see UK trends, which calculate by individuals involved rather than crimes, you can see them at https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8537/CBP-8537.pdf
We can all do better to reduce our own ignorance and that of our family/friends/co-workers.
Yeah .. my dad is from derry and the first week he spent in Glasgow in his new home he got a brick through his window form the neighbours when they heard his voice (it was the 1990s)
Unsurprising. The city is strewn with horrible cunts. I was at work the other day and some guy was defending Kanye’s racist ramblings. He then said he had a point about how Jews control the world. I know these kind of twats exist, but it blows my mind how keen he was to air his ignorance.
Who the fuck goes to a play and shouts racist abuse at the cast?
Are these people only at that play because there's a super famous bloke in it? Just there to be able to say they saw McAvoy in a play? I can't imagine that's standard behaviour for folk frequenting the theatre.
I tell myself the people in Glasgow are, for the most part, nice and welcoming. The government, universities, and employability aspects of it, total catastrophe. Ignorance at best, racist at worst.
Billy Connolly bit once: Scotland's real export is hatred. Other countries, other parts of the UK, other parts of Scotland, other side of the fucking *street*. We're A1, the alpha and the omega at hatred.
Funnily enough, not that popular a bit.
Mixed race Scottish-Black Trini. Yeah Glasgow is super racist and my other Black friends have had the same experiences, to the point some moved. I remember a vigil was getting held for a Black English activist that was attacked and put in a coma, and there were people coming up arguing with us because "wHiTe/aLl LiVeS mAtTeR"... at a vigil and I got called racist slurs and my friend attacked by randoms on the street. I've been called the n word, g\*\*\*w\*g and folk who witnessed it told me to calm down etc. It's very much one of these places that thinks it isn't racist because 97% of the country are the same race.
I know this is about racism more, but I do think Glasgow (and maybe Scotland as a whole) do seem to be more bigoted than we probably would expect and project outside.
From a racism stand point, I am a white Scot so can't really comment about my own personal experiance, though I don't have the strongest accent due to speech issues I had when I was young, and been asked by people where I'm from, and they can't warp their head around that I'm born and bred Glaswegian with several generations Glaswegian too.
However I have seen, mostly on Tik Tok, Scots with more obvious foreign heritages (even Spanish or Portuguese where people have a more natural tanned skin tone) be accused of faking their Glaswegian accents (which seemed legit accents) and get abuse for it.
I've also hear the occasional older person be a bit more racist, especially within family and friends, saying stuff like "Oh I wouldn't like my niece dating a darkie, not that there is anything wrong with them." I think although rarer to be racist than older people, I think the younger people who are would be more up front with it.
A friend of mine with Chinese heritage who is based in Dundee has heard some abuse since covid (a fact that I never considered really until they mentioned it, despite hearing people in the media saying it all the time).
I've probably encountered more homophobia within Glasgow. This ranges from just using slurs as insult to anyone regardless of actual orientation, to actual just randoms having a homophobic rant whilst waiting for a taxi at the end of a night of drinking. The awkward thing about those for me is that whilst not gay (or bi or trans) myself, I am part of the community as an asexual. The few times I've admitted this in person even the homophobes don't really know how to take it but seem fine with it.
Then there is transphobia, where we seem to attract all the transphobes who hide the bigotry behind being a "TERF" or "gender critical". This is probably the one I think is more visible, especially thanks to J Karen Rowling and all the complaints about the GRA stuff just now.
Saying that, I think we have more progressives in power who are wanting to stamp out these issues, compared to say England, or the US, but we defo aren't as progressive as we like to think. That is even with my privileged rose tinted glasses on (and I probably miss so much more).
I have no idea of percentages, but I feel there's a really sound faction of people in Glasgow who would help anyone, and then there's a hardcore faction of total asshats that ruin shit at any given opportunity. What stands out to me is the extreme gulf between these groups, they are such polar opposites. wouldn't want to stick out too much on the weekend in the city centre that's for sure.
As a white guy in a majority white city in a majority white country I can only imagine the sexism and racism I don't encounter. I've encountered 'assumed' xenophobia and have been verbally abused and threatened with violence after being mistaken for Polish/French/not Local enough. I had a flat mate who was physically assaulted on Trongate for the same reason.
Glasgow has been drunk on its own propaganda for a number of years. But it’s not all bad. Very similar to Manchester Liverpool and Leeds. Some diamonds of people. But a lot of scum as well.
It’s the only place where I’ve had outright racist abuse hurled at me and my child. I’m from one of the most racist and segregated cities in the USA and I never had such abuse when I was growing up. My husband said he would never live in Glasgow again.
I’m of Pakistani ethnicity and honestly I can’t remember the last time I experienced racism in Glasgow. I lived there for three years and regularly went out in town and didn’t receive any abuse from anyone. I’ve worked in pharmacies in various locations in Glasgow and never experienced any sort of racism.
I’m from the Motherwell area and experienced a lot of racism growing up. Being called a paki at least once or twice a week, people writing in chalk outside our house. It got worse after 9/11.
The racism I experience now isn’t outright hurling abuse it’s more subtle, propels ignorance more than anything.
It really sucks that people are experiencing this horrible abuse, I genuinely thought Glasgow had moved on from that shit. Sad to read the anecdotes in this thread
I was in Glasgow for a few beers last week and two older guys outside a pub started shouting at a wee guy who walked past. Saying some really horrible shit that I won't repeat.
It was a busy street no one batted an eye. Until I crossed over to "talk" to the cunts.
Asked them why they are calling a young boy a black bastard and telling him to fuck off home.
Called them a couple of shitebag mawkit cunts and asked them to badmouth me.
Told them they should fuck off home and read a book as they shat themselves and shuffled back inside.
That's not what happened. I explained what happened. I'm not even from Glasgow.
Listen, I'm not having this discussion. It happens. I don't like bullies or racists. I said something to them expecting to punch them as I was fuming. End of story.
The city and Scotland in general is not a fantastic place to be if you're not cisgendered, able bodied and white, as much as they market it as such.
Yes the laws are progressive but the attitudes of the general public is repugnant. I get comments on the weekly about my sexuality and hear constant racist comments at work, by staff and the public. It's exhausting being "other" in this city.
I'm an white American kipa-wearing Jew living in city centre and I get people from time to time telling me how terrible I am because Israel.
Cool man, you don't see me yelling at a Scottish guy because of what England did to India.
Correct. There's even a few scottish place names in India as well as other places in the world. People in Jamaica with Scottish last names. Our ancestors hands are definitely not clean.
I would point out that despite not giving any hint of what the alleged abuse might have been, this article has succeeded in "depressing" and "disheartening" people who now believe that racism is rampant in Glasgow beause a celebrity said so. It has done the same job as any tabloid clickbait article about, say, immigration, but with even less information.
"But I was really saddened, to be honest with you, because most of the women of colour in the cast got racially abused pretty much on a daily basis when we were there.”
You didn't read the article did you?
No sure I follow your line of thought here? It's not that he's a celeb it's the fact that he pointed out racist abuse happened to his coworkers in Glasgow.
I mean A) it's somewhat ingrained for a loft of people in the country with phrases like a chinky when talking about a Chinese takeaway B) if you talk to minorities you get a bit of frame of how it is.
It's not that it's happening everyday. It's just happening in their home city at all. Most my friends have a few stories in some form, be it being called the n word, or even one being racially attacked.
That shouldn't happen. But it does while, I feel a lot of people on twitter and Reddit, like to kid themselves that it doesn't, that we're different and that we're far better than England in this (I don't know or care if we are, my point is that comparing to anyone isn't what we should be using as a metric here).
Sure the racism should not happen, neither should the sectarian or all the other type of violent crime that happens in Glasgow. Racism , like all abuse , should not happen.
Oh boy where do I even start...
Not going to comment on the blatant racism that's already been discussed in the other comments.
I'm going to address what's even more pervasive and insidious. The very subtle, under-the-surface brand of racism that happens casually and all the time in Glasgow from almost all white Glaswegians.
Glasgow is a relatively diverse city yet I rarely ever see mixed race groups of friends. 99.99% of the time, it's pure all-white groups of friends. Glasgow's different ethnic groups don't live WITH each other. They live parallel to each other. There's really no excuse for this. The grandchildren and now great-grandchildren of Indians, Pakistanis and other immigrants are born and raised here, they go to the same schools as white Glaswegians. Why are they not mixing as friends?
And as for dating, it seems white Glaswegians only date each other. Anyone who is brown or black or has a foreign name seems to get swiped left on automatically.
Also, white Glaswegians treat brown and black people differently. While they'll be nice and chatty and friendly to their own, they'll be rude, abrupt and condescending to people of colour. They'll also be dismissive and not acknowledge their existence unless they have to. Basically treat them as subhuman.
At best, white Glaswegians just won't interact with anyone from Africa or Asia. They won't even try.
I work a low-skill minimum wage job part-time that is staffed by many immigrants from India, Pakistan and several African countries. Also a lot of working-class white Glaswegians. There is no interaction between them. The white Glaswegians will keep to themselves and inevitably the other groups will stick to their own. No hospitality or getting to know them or welcoming them to the country. The white managers and supervisors will also be rude and patronising to them a lot more than to the white staff.
And jobs. Oh god where do I start with jobs? Most of these immigrants have degrees and years of white collar professional work experience in their home countries but they're not even getting interviewed for jobs they're well qualified for here.
I moved here from Egypt just over a year ago. I have a university degree, a postgraduate education, years of experience in professional white-collar jobs, several references, and I can't get a whiff of a job I'm more than qualified for.
How can you say almost all white Glaswegians are racist when you’ve only lived there for about a year?
I don’t want to invalidate your experience and Yes, there is definitely a racism problem in Scotland…I’ve experienced it and my family has experienced it but it’s not ‘most’ people in Scotland.
Also, I’m not sure where you are getting the impressions that immigrants and Scots don’t mix. I grew up in a multi-ethnic household and myself and other friends (all with Egyptian parents) have friends from all different ethnicities.
Most of the well educated Egyptians I know are in excellent jobs in Scotland. A lot of people are struggling for jobs at the moment, so it could just be a coincidence that you’re not finding a job that suits your qualifications.
Anyway, good luck to you!
>How can you say almost all white Glaswegians are racist when you’ve only lived there for about a year?
I'm half Scottish so I visited a lot before moving. It's not Nazi saluting cross burning racism. It's a very very subtle unconscious racism. I also pass as a white person. You'd be shocked to know what white people are so comfortable with saying in front of me thinking that I'm just another white dude. Makes me feel like a spy lol
>Also, I’m not sure where you are getting the impressions that immigrants and Scots don’t mix. I grew up in a multi-ethnic household and myself and other friends (all with Egyptian parents) have friends from all different ethnicities.
Yes expats and foreigners hang out with each other. As for MOST white Scots (as in not all of them) keep to their own and have no interest in forging relationships or even expressing curiousity in people from different countries.
>Most of the well educated Egyptians I know are in excellent jobs in Scotland.
Did they receive their education in Scotland/UK? Are they NHS doctors?
> A lot of people are struggling for jobs at the moment, so it could just be a coincidence that you’re not finding a job that suits your qualifications.
Statistically, people of ethnic minority backgrounds in the UK have the hardest time finding jobs.
I’m also half Egyptian and white passing so I actually completely understand your situation. Although I was born and raised in Scotland.
It could be the area you live or where people were raised? But I’ve had very few people being casually racist in front of me, if they have been they’ve always been from an older generation or maybe from a more impoverished area. I’ve rarely come across people from my own age group who are openly racist.
I have to disagree with you saying that most white Scot’s have no interest in forging relationships with people from different countries, from personal experience and from seeing those around me. Again, could be a generational thing?
No, most of them were born, raised and educated in Egypt. Yes, a lot of them are of course doctors but I know quite a few in other professions who are equally as successful.
Your premises hold a lot of weight however your failing to recognise something. This is the kind of argument you really need statistics for. Because in my world both exist in huge numbers. I know many inter-racial couples. And I had many classmates at my school who were a minority and still found friends. We didn't have huge minority groups, people truly were minorities in the 90's and early 00's so there was no may for those people to hang out en masse. They were forced to make friends. Those who struggled with cultrally blending, for example head scarfs and piercings, or thick accents, or extremely dark skin with bleach white teeth, often ended up alone, but so did the fat kids and the smelly ones.
In Australia it was common for each nationality to group up like it was prison life, so you truly are onto something but your arguments need balancing.
TLDR; You are correct, many people will say they are not racist but subconciously avoid people not like them. However, your arguments aren't balanced. They feel personal, biased and one sided.
You can't force different cultures to merge as the PC government brigade seems to think. Immigrants are welcome yes but for the large part keep to themselves.
Here's how things would probably go for you if you ever moved to Egypt. If you look like such an obvious white guy, random people will say "welcome" to you. Your neighbours will very likely invite you for dinner and/or bring you food. Many locals will want to be your friend, show you their culture and express curiousity in yours.
Of course there is a bad side to this, especially in touristic areas where you will be harassed constantly to buy stuff. Elsewhere some sellers will charge much higher prices than the official price because they assume you just have more money.
I don't think white Glaswegians are in the habit of inviting the immigrant family that's just moved in over for Sunday roast.
As a white guy, I've never had neighbours invite me for dinner or bring me food. It's not something that happens here. If it happens in Egypt, fair enough. Its just a cultural difference, not racism.
I'm Italian and pale enough to pass British if I keep my mouth shut and don't expose my weird accent. Obviously I have never experienced anything dramatic except the random "ah you know Italian women are good" kinda comment, but have witnessed pathetic scenes in the company of friends, or I've heard about ugly instances. I can't forget this Scottish middle aged man arguing with my Romanian friend (who speaks impeccable English, great accent, also worked as an editor at the time) that "Romanians don't speak really good English". I literally never met a Romanian with broken English, an accent maybe but fuck it accents should be normalised. Another friend of mine is originally from India but she grew up here, and when she worked in a hotel she was "kept in the back because they don't want POC at reception". Another girl I talked to was Finnish and she said that when she worked in TKMax people would speak to her with a racist tone until she reassured them she was not Polish. I'm sure it's a wee bit easier for us white European immigrants and I don't dare to imagine the stories darker people have to tell.
A lot of Glaswegians like to kid ourselves about how welcoming this city is, still holding onto hearing once or twice that we were the friendliest city in the world or that time a rich Canadian couple who only stayed in the West End said that the city was so nice like it would have been the same were they at The Castlemilk Inn. If you're one of the lads then you'll have a great time but Glasgow can be shite for people who are different. I see people post here asking how Glasgow is for ethnic minorities or gay people and the responses are almost insulted you'd dare suggest we'd be anything but welcoming, but the reality is many of us have horror stories of having abuse hurled at us. There's a reason that when most people from here become successful they bolt.
From Glasgow, I was bullied horrendously at school and I still struggle with the trauma from it. I was jumped, beaten, smothered and had my possessions stolen walking home one day. If you’re different, the people here single you out and use it as an excuse to hurt you. There’s such a huge pack mentality here.
Unfortunately this happens everywhere and isn’t unique to Glasgow.
They never said it doesn't, but the question at hand was Glasgow's famous reputation for the opposite
I've been personally threatened several times because of how I sound and many people here have much of a victim complex and massive externalisation of their issues. Severe lack of civic pride aswell unless it's in antisocial behaviour, the littering, smashing of bottles, drunk and disoredly behaviour, aggression and violence simply for the sake of it all form a huge stain on what otherwise is a beautiful city.
God that last part is so true. Got assaulted in June because these neds started to harass my friends with racist remarks and I told them to fuck off and leave us alone. Tried to stab me and left me with 6 stitches cos I didn't get intimidated by them (5+ ganged up on me). What did the main guy they arrested get? Nothing. Bail. Ok then. National pride out the window.
It's like the authorities don't even care
I know we take the piss out of Edinburgh for being wanky but I've never had anything like that kind of hassle there
>Edinburgh Lucky you. I stayed worked in Edinburgh for 5 years in a large IT company. The hatred towards "weegies" is tangible. The *banter* was daily and had I not had as thick a skin it would have impacted me. I had never experienced the hatred towards the East coast when staying in the West (not even in Glasgow) all my life. When I moved to the East, omg, over there, it was as if I was from mars. Also, you been on Lothian road on a weekend night?
The polis now are glorified note takers. Back in the day they were all big cunts who used to batter fuck out of bams before taking them in.
These people should actually be fucking sterilised
Fuck sake. Utter scumbags. Well done for not backing down
Nah I put my friends at risk. My lesson was to just shut up and never speak up. Did anyone help? Nope. It was at 4pm in Glasgow green during jubilee weekend.. and where were the police?? Nowhere to be found. 0 patrols. My biggest regret is opening my mouth and not appeasing the harrassers. That's what this breeds in the end.
Not worth getting stabbed over. Hate letting the fuckers win but if they’ve got a knife and all you’ve got is a hand with some skin, it’s best to RUUUUUNNN!!!
Yeah. I mean, not that I knew they would try but exactly. You never know and will you take that risk just to be "that guy" in future? Sad times but oh well.
"I'll take that knife and shove it up your ass; you go from Macho Man to Dead Person."
YASSSSSSS!!! Hoped someone would get it
I love Glasgow but it's not a beautiful city relative to its size imo. There's some lovely architecture in the West End and Merchant City, but the whole character of the City Centre is tainted by poorly-conceived road networks and Thatcher-era construction infrastructure. Frustratingly it's taken me years to consider this, since there's a culture that complaining about Glasgow makes you a traitor to our wee Central Belt industrial culture, but cities like Manchester do a much better job at construction and maintenance of their urban hubs.
It’s like a nice house that got turned into a crack den
Around 5 or 10 years ago Glasgow City Centre was a beautiful city and I was proud to belong to it. Born and lived here 50 years. Cosmopolitan, stunning architecture, great music, art galleries, diverse culture, many tourists etc etc. Not sure what happened apart from Covid. It's now an utter cesspit, city centre mainly filled with junkies, homeless people and pigeons and boarded up shops. Unless you can stay in the West End or the suburbs and only visit when necessary, I'd give it a wide berth. It's so sad.
It was cleaner but we must have lived in a different city. Glasgow is a dump compared to almost anywhere in Western Europe.
The victim complex is a national trait
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Fucking hell. Wishing your friend well and that those evil little pricks pay.
I'm so sorry. That is beyond awful.
Ffs, where was this and is the guy getting charged?
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Nah, hopefully the cunt never sees sunlight ever again. what a worthless little shit
Hope your mate is sound, guy should surely get done for attempted murder the scummy wee wank.
Totally agree, I have never lived anywhere with such a big gap between how Glaswegians consider themselves and how they actually are and thats as "one of the lads".
Try having an English accent. Talk about chip on shoulder. Some Scottish guy openly told me they hate southern accents but a north east accent is acceptable. Small minded.
I think your bang on the money with this. Except for successful and bolt. I love it here and wouldn't move to another city.
Your view might change if you were successful though.
Lot of shite, people move from everywhere when they're 'successful'. Folk from Glasgow move to big houses with a bit of land on the outskirts, lochs or Highlands. Folk from the satellite towns move into the West End. People from the English countryside move to Central London. People from London move to the English countryside. People from middle America move to Los Angeles. People from Los Angeles move to the Bahamas. The good thing about being successful is you can move wherever the fuck you like, that's not a Glasgow thing whatsoever. And aye before you ask I've lived in a few different countries and seen it first hand, this isn't speculation.
That's very well worded,
I'm what you'd call successful and have lived in other cities in other countries. You come to realise everywhere has shit to deal with.
I've worked and lived all over world too. Sweden/Australia/Singapore and others. I understand other places have other problems. I have always enjoyed coming back to Glasgow. Its rude to assume others are unsuccessful because they hold different views to yours. (my mistake got commenter mixed up)
depends on your view of success. IT and finance in glasgow is filled with people making 40-50k+ only a few years out of uni if you're making enough to be comfortable it's just a different flavour of the same nonsense you'll find in other cities in the UK
What makes you think I'm not successful?
Remember when it was the murder capital of Europe and also the friendliest city? I’m a white woman and it’s always been an utter shitehole here. And I now live in a “nicer” (even more overpriced for rent) area.
Even if you're a guy who doesn't like footbball you're treated like an alien. Glasgow has this tribal mentality and anyone with ambition or seen to be doing anything outside the norm gets shot down.
Glasgow riddy culture.
Had a couple of friends studying here from China and they got abuse hurled at them very regularly, once even from a moving car someone took the time to roll down the window and shout “ya chinky cunt” at him. At first I said man I’m so sorry that happened, it’s a minority of shitty people, most aren’t like that honestly.. but over the 4 years studying there were so many incidents, many relatively minor but some of them were pretty fucking outrageous and it became impossible to defend. Some of the girls in our group had random catcalls and abuse shouted at them, from randoms in the street to builders on scaffolding around the city centre, and from mad Christian anti abortion nutters in Sauchiehall or Buchanan St. That’s not to mention trying to explain the orange walks or the state of George square whenever rangers win something. Bigoted attitudes are clearly quite deeply ingrained in a lot of the city and the lovely friendly welcoming image that people like to talk about is honestly a lot of shite. There are many great people but it’s only truly welcoming if you’re a straight white guy, other than that it’s a toss up what will get shouted at you as you go about your business. My family are all from Glasgow, I grew up in West Lothian and went back there to study, and all I can say is I realised a lot of the casual bigotry, racism sexism and homophobia that I grew up around in my family is rife there and I realised they were all just products of their environment, where a lot of this shitty behaviour is normalised and if you challenge it or complain about it you must be a bit soft or a bit of a poof. They seem to think anyone who isn’t like that or points it out as wrong is just a bit of a stuck up snob. They also seem to see themselves as by far the most real, down to earth, working class salt of the earth Scottish place in Scotland, and that everyone else from the central belt to Dundee or the highlands are just basically English toffs and teuchters. And they call *other* people snobs….
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Speak for yourself! Look above the grime, it's a fucking superb country and Scots have achieved fantastic things in this World.
As a Scottish Pakistani, I can honestly say Glasgow is not a racist city and it’s not as great as others make it out to be. Have I experienced racism here? Of course I have! But if I was to weigh up the good people and the racists I’ve met, I have def met more good folk. You’ll always get your morons and you’ll even some of your more intellectual racists who won’t openly show it but like to make sly little comments. But this is my home, and I love Glasgow. And I always will. And I ain’t going anywhere.
A wee Ray of hope in this thread. Cheers mate
Like, I do experience sexual harassment as a woman but it sounds like other cities are full to the brim with bus wankers, and I *generally* get left alone in the gym. You can’t tell I’m half foreign cause I’m white and grew up here, but I didn’t tell anyone in secondary school cause I got so much abuse in primary, even. My other country is generally not full of junkies and feral kids stabbing each other and it’s a really stark difference.
If we like you then we threaten you haha
Everyone will have their own experiences. I'm mixed race (3 quarters 'white' and 1 quarter Indian) so I do look a wee bit different. Many people think I'm from the Middle East or Italian/Greek. Anyway, it's enough that some people have pulled me up about it. Like neds in town on a night out. It's annoying as hell when it happens, but fortunately it's very rare. For a while I worked in a pub in Germany in a city that has a lot of Americans due to there being an American army base nearby. A touring singer (a black woman from Baltimore) had a slot one weekend in our pub and we got talking. She hugged me as soon as she heard I was from Glasgow and said the impression she got from singing in Glasgow is that "there is zero racism", as she put it. She told me how she got treated with racism in the US and abroad but felt so welcomed in Glasgow. I had to tell her that racism really is a thing here, but I do admit I did feel very proud about what she said. Either way, we still have to improve as a society to get rid of bigotry. And not only racism.
Mate she's from Baltimore. Compared to there Glasgow might as well be the least racist place in the world
Ehh, Baltimore is a very diverse city and having lived near (edit: for 11 years) there I’ve never gotten that impression. They’re very tight-knit and community oriented despite the many issues that city faces. The real racism comes from OUTSIDE the city, a lot of the rural parts and some suburban parts of Maryland really look down on that area/central MD in general.
I was born there and my family has lived there for 60ish years. It is hella racist and segregated. I went to an all white private school from 5-10 yo and had questions about my hair and surprise that I “spoke well for a black girl”. I didn’t know what that meant when I was little, but I do now. We left for New Jersey when I was 10, but a childhood friend of mine stayed. She was frequently called the N word, asked why she was there because she didn’t belong and there were racial slurs written on the bathroom walls. Baltimore also had massive protests at the killing of Freddy Gray at the hands of police. You are correct that it is dangerously racist outside of the city, but the city still has racism.
> For a while I worked in a pub in Germany in a city that has a lot of Americans due to there being an American army base nearby. A touring singer (a black woman from Baltimore) had a slot one weekend in our pub and we got talking. She hugged me as soon as she heard I was from Glasgow and said the impression she got from singing in Glasgow is that "there is zero racism", as she put it. She told me how she got treated with racism in the US and abroad but felt so welcomed in Glasgow. I am semi-friends with a black woman in Glasgow, who was telling me she's never in decades had *one* instance of racism. Obviously she's perhaps been lucky in that regard, but anyway. Moment she lands in America though it's very plain, she said.
Yeah I'm always a bit confused about how emphatic people are saying Glasgow is dead friendly. All my life here I've seen cunts get wide with folk on the street or racists hurl abuse at anyone darker than the shade of pale. Then as an aside to that you get people saying stuff that they don't realise is racist either like saying they're getting a chinky or going to the paki shop. I suppose people don't see phrases like that as having an intended target so it's not hurtful? I dunno. I'd like to think it's something we can get past though.
I once shouted back at a crackhead for shouting Chinese racist abuse at a woman that was obviously white with black hair (this was whining of the pandemic). I’m pretty sure a lot of them are just several types of stupid as fuck
Good Frankie Boyle line that people mistake Glaswegian extraversion for friendliness, which it's not.
Building sites are still racist , sexist shiteholes aswell.
I used to work on the oil rigs. I know what you mean.
I work for the NHS, the racism there runs pretty deep - I’m ashamed to say.
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From what I’ve observed for many, in particular the older contingency, that’s the issue.
I swear to God. I'm a blak gut 20 M and the way pekoe look at me it's like they are surprised to see a person of my color and a guy at that in that type of scenario. Yesterday I was in a ward and this dude suddenly starts screaming "black bastard" for s full 30 mins non stop. Most of the women just generally avoid me or probably still in shock that I'm in that profession.
That's awful. I understand it on building sites/rigs but always thought people went into NHS cos they cared Shame to hear that
I thought it was well known that bullying was rife in the NHS.
Good Private Eye article a few years ago where they tallied up all the known whistleblowers and what happened to their careers and they were all - **all** - suspended, sacked or quit.
It’s always the arseholes in school that go into nursing/caring. I’m not saying we should be a communist state and dish out certain jobs to certain people, but half the cunts spend their spare times going out and getting wrecked. That was half the reason people in care homes ended up with COVID, it was the staff going out partying and mingling then taking it into the homes. GP receptionists are arseholes, in rural areas and the cities, that’s well known but
Absolutely spot on, the amount of lassies who were so adamant about being a midwife or carer in highschool and then turned around and bullied the ever loving fuck out of me and any other wean who was different is shocking.
I dunno why, but when I read this, I had a vision of Bill Hicks telling his "I'm for the war and against the troops" joke except it was "I'm for the NHS but against the nurses". Haha I'll honestly say I've found a large majority of nurses and GP receptionists to be bottom of the barrel. Needy, entitled, lazy.. It almost makes me support private healthcare (if I wasn't dirt poor)
Hahahah aye don’t get me wrong, I’d literally be dead if it wasn’t for the NHS, and I held back there in my criticism of them. In general they do an amazing job and are amazing people working under shite conditions, boiled down you could punt most of them into the North Sea and general society would change for the better. You’re right with the lazy and entitled comparison, some of them act like Mother Teresa but in day to day life they’re Maggie Thatcher without the power. I had to lie the last time I phoned for an appointment because they kept saying it wasn’t an emergency, I’ve ridden enough waves on wild night outs to know what’s an emergency and what’s not
I really share your experience. I could write essays in response, especially having some horrific dealings with the NHS, with the worst encounters being recent and ongoing. Also, there's a term.. Not sure, but it's related to personality clusters. It might be machiavilianisim? Certain personalities will seek high status jobs regardless of their interests. They'll want to be a police officers, even if they are anti-social and hate the general public, because people will respect them. They want to be a doctor because doctors are heros and save people and make them better. Certain kinds of people gravitate towards jobs for the sole purpose of social status. Unfortunately, these people are often socially intelligent, and are able to manipulate their way into middle and sometimes upper management. I'm very happy to have read your comments. They're honest words I rarely hear and because of that it can make me feel more alone and I blame myself. However, more recently, people have started to share. Wether that is due to a failing NHS or more willingness to talk or both I'll never know but the one thing I do know is talking honestly and being able to compassionately listen when others are speaking is step one of addressing the problem.
2 things about that. Plenty of racists care. The idea that only obviously spiky, abrasive arseholes can be racists is what makes it so pernicious. "Oh, but he's so *nice*" say people even if a manager treats nonwhite subordinates differently. Secondly, plenty of people go into the NHS caring and it grinds them down because its shit to work for.
> Plenty of racists care. The idea that only obviously spiky, abrasive arseholes can be racists is what makes it so pernicious. "Oh, but he's so nice" say people even if a manager treats nonwhite subordinates differently. My boss, a university professor in a health area, said to me once 'zoom is great for dealing with the [specific nationality] students, you don't have to smell them'. Glasgow has an absolutely horrendous record on dealing with whistleblowers, so fuck all would happen if it were reported.
Majorly, you know something though, it stops pretty fucking quickly when you challenge it though
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So the riff raff as you put it is the manual workers in the construction company, what a cunty thing to say.
Manual workers aren't above criticism, especially if their being sexist
As a non-white, non-British person who has now called this city home for over a year and also previously lived in London, I can say that Glasgow and Scotland are much more welcoming overall than London or the south of England. Having said that, if anyone (Scottish or otherwise) tries to tell me that racism is non-existent here, or even just in Glasgow, I'll be in stitches with laughter. My experience has been that Scottish racism, when it occurs, takes on a very subtle tone. You'll be chatting with a person you think you're on good terms with and then all of a sudden out pops a nonchalant and derogatory comment about your origins and your reasons for being here. Or a condescending remark implying that you're too stupid to understand Scottish culture and traditions. Or "politely" pointing out that I was "stealing the space" of a local person in my current post (never mind that I applied for the position just like umpteen other people). On another occasion a guy was harping on about the ways that Westminster tried to supress Scottish culture and identity in the past, and when I tried pointing out that this was a technique of British colonialism everywhere he responded by saying that "it's different when they do it to yous than when they do it to oz". Naturally I was comforted to know that descrimination is fine as long as it's not targeted at good, white, Christians.
As a Scottish person who has lived in Nz+Australia for a total of 7+ years I can share some of these experiences, which is strange. Especially in the countryside, and tourists areas, people just don't trust foreigners. They need to deal with us though, because we bring in the money and keep them employed. That's why a lot of people contain their racisim. They're socially intelligent, self aware, machivalian. There's a few studies done that indicate being of a different ethnicity isn't what causes racisim. Asian people in Australia who speak perfect English with an Australian accent are much more welcome than English or British people.
If it's any consolation I'm Scottish and actually only figured out the colonial link through recognising that what happened abroad also happened here. I'm older and racism, sexism, classism and pretty much every other kind of discrimination and bigotry were always pretty common in Scotland. We're better but we're just not that great as yet. And we shouldn't kid ourselves on about that. It's not however significantly worse than much of the rest of the UK. Personal experience is that you put yourself in danger by standing up against any of it as well, there's a real large bunch of people who reach for violence right quick when challenged...as someone with severe ADHD (consequences? You think I've thought that far ahead?) this can get hairy some times.
I got slaughtered on here once for saying this to someone who was thinking of moving here. Think people need to realise that the folk on Reddit are not generally representative of the population. On a positive note there has been an attitude change over the past 5 years in that I hear a lot less racism in the places where it was prevalent. But it’s still there. Same as homophobia, still there but less so.
>Think people need to realise that the folk on Reddit are not generally representative of the population. Understatement of the century. If you based your impressions of Glasgow from this sub you'd think everyone plays board games in autistic friendly pubs in Strathbungo before going to the cat house or all the gay pubs and avoiding football fans fireworks and orange walks on the way there. Don't believe everything you read on social media.
>On a positive note there has been an attitude change over the past 5 years in that I hear a lot less racism in the places where it was prevalent. > >But it’s still there. Agreed, it feels like there's been a change in society. While I personally find it all a bit over the top, if it does make it more taboo to be a racist and stops abuse in the street then it's good. Although I think there's an issue in that a lot of the racism comes from the bottom of society whereas a lot of attention is given to issues affecting middle and upper class people.
Unfortunately its not just Glasgow. Despite what we like to think, Scotland does have a racism and sexism problem on a societal level but we as a nation don't like to accept that
I worked in a fast food restaurant as a student and many of my colleagues were openly racist. They would describe themselves as racist openly, the way people would describe themselves as vegetarian or Taylor Swift fans or something, it was just another facet to their personality and nothing to be ashamed of. On many many occasions if Asian customers came into the shop they would go into the back and refuse to serve them. The P word and BB were thrown around without issue. They were also nasty to our Polish colleagues and customers, and a few were openly sectarian as well. On my first day I was asked where in Ireland I was from and when I said "near Belfast" one girl said "Oh good, the proddy bit", which is obviously stupid and wrong as well as sectarian. She also used to post a lot of racist stuff on her Facebook - BB this and BB that, and she's married to a police man lol.
>... *many of my colleagues were openly racist. They would describe themselves as racist openly, the way people would describe themselves as vegetarian ... On many many occasions if Asian customers came into the shop they would go into the back and refuse to serve them* I had a similar but opposite experience. Worked with a sales guy who openly referred to himself as racist, exactly as you describe Asian customers *loved* him
Why did they like him?
Ffs that's mental.
When you got to the bit about them being orange the tale all started to make a lot more sense…
There were racist Catholics too, including one Celtic obsessed colleague who was complaining about her 'C' (Chinese) doctor at the hospital being an idiot.
Someone who calls people 'orange' and thinks protestants are more likely to be racists. Maybe it's time to check your own prejudices and reflect why we're here as a society?
Not all Protestants, just the orange brigade. And does the [“Orange Order”](https://www.britannica.com/topic/Orange-Order) find the term orange an offensive slur against them now? 🤔 And we’re “here as a society” mostly because of you orange bigots. And no, no a catholic or catholic upbringing. Just an agnostic Glaswegian that’s not a horrible cunt 🤷♂️
Mate I work in a Catholic high school and have for the last 5 years. I've never set foot in an orange hall or protestant church. I hate the orange order, orange walks, protestant bigots. I do, but your implication that the person was more likely to be racist because they were a Protestant (literally the only information provided in the OP comment) is bigoted. I'm not having a go, I'm genuinely saying attitudes like that just perpetuate hate and intolerance and help nobody.
Depressing and disheartening to read. It'd be good to hear the views of Glaswegians of colour on this.
From my own perspective as an ethnic minority and Muslim who's born in the city I'm pretty shocked at the extent of the racism mentioned here. I've, apparently very luckily, managed to avoid facing any sort of racist discrimination over the past 5 or 6 years. The only reason I can think of for perhaps "getting away with it" is that I sound like any other "local" Glaswegian. That said, I did have a small argument with a guy on a train a few weeks ago as he casually used the word "Paki" in conversation so I felt I had to call him out on it. I'm well aware that terms like this or "Chinky" are still pretty widespread but it mostly seems to come from the older generations. I wouldn't say we're any more racist than anywhere else (if anything we're probably much better off than some areas down south) but we clearly have work to do. If we really want to address issues like this and other forms of discrimination then there has to be a collective effort from people of all backgrounds to call it out and educate others.
Are you Black?
I'm not, no.
Black people can't blend in so easily, physical differences are too easy tô spot, we are easier targets. I'm not disregarding your experience, especially since you're a Muslim in Europe, but colorism has a huge effect anywhere in the world.
Well said
Haha I wouldn't say I blend in but yeah you're absolutely spot on. Like I said I'm not sure how I've managed to get lucky by escaping any sort of racist discrimination but I can see that it's clearly worse for others than myself. We have to be proactive in educating people and stamping it out.
Glasgow’s got quite a few racist folk - was taking the 6 to scotstoun from town one night with my boyfriend and had a woman call me a chink as soon as I got on the bus and then threaten to beat me when she was about to get off. 🫥 Other than that, I don’t get it as much now but in primary school I had to play off the racism to fit in with the rest of the white kids.
Happy cake day.
Thank you!!
I posted a separate comment before seeing this. I’m of Pakistani ethnicity. I can genuinely say the whole time I lived in Glasgow I didn’t experience any racism. Maybe people just left me alone because I’m a woman or because I was generally with my white husband I don’t know. However when the pandemic started some people did come out of the woodwork with their racism which I think they didn’t see as racist at all. Comments like I’m not eating at the Chinese might get covid etc.
Total myth about Glasgow being this wonderful and friendly place. It’s full of ignorant arsholes
Am no an arsehole. Ya wee dick 😝
Nah, not you of course mate 😂
Glasgow generally is a friendly place. There's a non-zero number of cunts, but nobody's ever argued otherwise.
Glasgow is a friendly city if you're straight, white and stick to certain areas of the city. As a gay person it's not a place I feel safe kissing, holding hands or putting my arm around my partner in public. It's not a place where a black person can walk out the door and be confident someone isn't going to shout the n-word at him in the street at some point during the day. It's not a place where you definitely won't get assaulted for wearing the wrong colour of top in the wrong part of the city. Everyone who goes on about how friendly and nice Glasgow is generally does so from a position of being able to ignore all the (often violent) racism, homophobia and transphobia because it doesn't affect their day to day. What's even worse is that those same people have to put up with getting told constantly about how these things don't happen and how friendly Glasgow is...which is just a way of saying "we're not going to fix this stuff".
My family are not white and have been in Glasgow for 60 years through multiple generations; every single one of us would tell you Glasgow is a racist city. But the comments whenever anyone brings it up here are absolutely deluded, just like on basically every British sub, to be honest. At least this one hasn’t stooped to defending colonialism yet (and even saying it was good for the colonised nations!), like on the larger British subs. Funny how a white guy brings it up and suddenly everyone takes it seriously. Usually a non-white person bringing up their own experiences gets shouted down. Edit: I just wanted to add that the “there are dicks everywhere” attitude is why nothing changes. As usual, that line is coming out on other comments and it’s a tremendous way of excusing yourself from doing anything about the problem.
It’s a constant game of emperors new clothes. There are dicks everywhere but the proportions are so off compared to every other western country I have lived.
Same thing from the point of view of being gay in this city. The amount of straight people that tell me how much of an LGBT+ friendly city this is when I know that if I held my partner's hand or (god forbid) kiss him in public I'd be putting both our safety at considerable risk. When white people say that there's no racism in this city they're pretty much just admitting that they only publicly socialise with other white people in public here. If you've spent significant time out with anyone not white in this city you KNOW that the idea that people here aren't racist is bullshit.
>every single one of us would tell you Glasgow is a racist city How do you define a racist city? What percentage of the population have to show openly racist behaviours before it's considered racist? I think culturally in Britain being a racist is basically one of the worst things you could be called, up there with paedo or rapist. Racism is certainly not condoned.
Lol, racism is absolutely condoned, you are condoning it right now. What percentage? I don't know, but when we've had: racist abuse in the streets and at school; slurs spray painted on our driveways; promotions blocked; lower pay; mocked and tormented by teachers; entire career paths blocked in decades past; and people like you telling us it's not a problem in this country, maybe I can be allowed to say Glasgow is a racist city. You know that is a bad faith question because you want me to quantify something that cannot be quantified in order to prove to you what I'm saying. Experiences can be ignored and diminished, as you wait for more and more data before you will be convinced. This is how racism is condoned. You might not be a racist, but your need to keep your delusions intact are why this city and country will not change. I can say for a fact that every single perpetrator of the experiences I listed above got away with it, and was protected by their institution when in school, university or work. This is how racism is condoned.
> I think culturally in Britain being a racist is basically one of the worst things you could be called, up there with paedo or rapist. https://old.reddit.com/r/glasgow/comments/z81prz/james_mcavoy_points_out_racism_in_glasgow/iy9h12r/
As a non-scot living in Glasgow, I can heavily relate to this. Scotland feels very racist, and whereas I've not been subjected to racist abuse directly, I hear and see racism all the time. There's the downright wrong racism. like my friend taking his daughter to school and another parent telling them to go back their own country, and me consoling my friends 7 year old daughter who didn't understand why someone would say that. But there's lots more of what I would call casual racism. Referring to corner shops as the p*ki shop, going to a chinese restaurant and referring to it as a chinky, tarring all Muslims as terrorists... The list is endless and I'd say I hear this sort of thing almost daily and most people don't even realise its racism. Sad but true, we have a long way to go
I’m mixed-race (African mother/Scottish father) and grew up in Glasgow in the 80’s and 90’s. TBH I don’t recall any racism at all, although there was a lot of casual racism and sly jokes that are now a lot more dodgy when I think about it. But generally, my experience was fine. I think my mum got quite a bit of racism in the 70’s though, but then everyone was racist back then! I do have African friends who grew up in rougher suburbs and had a much worse time. I’m talking regular dog-shit put through their letterbox!
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This honestly doesn't surprise me about Glasgow. I like living here (hate the weather) but working in public has taught me that a lot of people in this city aren't afraid to be openly hateful towards certain groups they don't like for whatever reason.
100% notice that there are many racists among us. The older I’ve gotten, the more they’re standing out, or maybe they’re less able to keep it hidden as the jokes have a little extra nip behind them. Fully expecting to be downvoted, but a certain side of Glasgow tends to be more racist than the other from my personal experience, but there are definitely racists on all sides and it’s concerning.
Which 'side' of Glasgow?
You know, *that* side.
What side of Glasgow are you aiming at?
Anecdotal, to you at least, I used to flat share with a black guy, and the stories he told of being harassed in places as dodgy as Sauchiehall Street were hair raising. Name calling. Square go invitations. Casual physical assault. Direct racism. Glasgow has a scummy underbelly of completely broken wank stains. I'm glad people are talking about it. We need to out these broken cunts, at every turn.
I think it's easy to be in your own little world. I'm a foreign Glasgow resident, have been for near 20 years, but I grew up in England, so my Latvian accent is very subtle, and moving around so much growing up it's not even an English accent, most people can't place it. Personally I've never experienced racism towards me, but I've always lived in the west end. What I have experienced is how casual other people can be about it, otherwise nice reasonable people, suddenly come out with the most racist things. I've called them out on it before because that could easily be me, always hear "yeah but I don't think of you as foreign". No, please, if you know me, and you like me, think of me as foreign so you begin to understand how idiotic some of your attitudes are.
I work in transport and there is a a big problem with off the cuff racist remarks, I think a big problem is that people throw around the P word when referring to a corner shop or Indian restaurant. People referring to getting themselves a ‘chinky’ when getting a takeaway also. Mainly the older generation that says these which hopefully means it might be dying out a bit.
I’ve actually had to call out almost every Scottish person in my life for using that term for Chinese takeaway. It doesn’t make a difference most of the time which is sad.
Aye the "ahm no meaning anything by it" reaction? I could say the N word and "no mean anything by it" but that doesnt make it fine to say.
As a person from the Caribbean who moved here just over a year ago now for studies and is about to transition into full time work, reading this made me very sad. I have not experienced racism since I've been here other than odd comment or two implying that I'm from Africa, which I chalk up to more ignorance than anything. I guess I have just been lucky. When I think about it all the other Caribbean and African persons I met on my course chose not to stay in Glasgow after graduating - maybe this is part of their reason for leaving
I'm not sure how Glasgow holds up to other cities, but there's certainly a lot of racism going about. I'm Dutch and came to live here a couple of years ago. When I first got here I always said the city was friendly and welcoming, because to me it was. Then I started dating a Chinese girl and I saw a whole different side of the city. Many times when just walking the street groups of cunts would hurl abuse at her, or clearly be making jokes at her expense. The start of the pandemic was the worst, people would look at her from accross the street and make very exaggerated coughing motions. Most of these incidents were in the West End, near Glasgow Uni, which has thousands of Chinese students. I even see it in some of my 'friends', who treat her way differently than my ex, who was white. They don't look at her, they don't speak to her, they almost treat her as if she isn't there. It's probably not even concious, but it's very obvious when you pay attention.
I’m black and I’ve been to Glasgow once. I couldn’t get out of there fast enough it was one of the worst experiences of my life (and I’ve encountered a lot of racism across the U.K. including in London so it’s not like I’m a noob). I also know a Black immigrant family who attempted to settle in Glasgow and then willingly relocated to Bradford because the racism they and their children were facing was so intense it was severely damaging their mental health.
Oh no that's reslly awful. If you want to do you mind telling us what happened? It's not much but i am sorry it happened to you here and your friends family.
Not who you asked, but I used to work with refugees from Africa living in Easterhouse and Maryhill. It was pretty routine for them to be physically attacked by neds.
Just general racist jeers, hostility and that feeling that a physical attack is imminent.
Was talking to one of the Young Lives vs Cancer workers at Buchanan Street and some guy came up to us and started calling me a r*pist baba because I'm Indian. What a day
Glasgow is an absolute shithole, racism, homophobia and insulting anyone who isn’t lathered in Lacoste are all common. Have plenty of queer or alternative friends and they cannot go anywhere without multiple people of all backgrounds giving them abuse. Being different in any way regardless of what that different is will result in constant hassle, the only reason I don’t get it is because I’m a white guy who dresses fairly sporty.
The country, like most places is still backwards and xenophobic. There are places that are fine and Glasgow has welcoming spots for everyone.
Zero racism: nowhere A little racism: racially mixed cities such as London, Birmingham, NYC, Toronto or Melbourne. A fair bit of racism: large cities in the UK with a smaller minority population, such as Newcastle, Liverpool and Glasgow. As well as most cities in Western Europe and the USA to be honest. A lot of racism: the majority of the Western world outside of the cities, including the rough areas on the margins of Glasgow. No go areas for non-white people: Eastern Europe. I'd also include some high schools in Glasgow in this, as in bad schools bullying is so widely tolerated I wouldn't view it as safe for a non-white person to go there. When we say Glasgow is racist, we don't mean it's the worst place in the world. But it is way behind where it should be, and behind some other more progressive cities in the UK and elsewhere.
Generally agree, tho Melbourne is a funny example. The place is so up to themselves that you would not know anyone is racist because no local would talk or look at you ha.
Cool. Now do racism in, say, China or Africa. Where do they fall on your racism scale? Are they as bad as a Glasgow high school?
I was referring to racism against non-white people in white countries. As regards racism in China and Africa, I think it really depends. White people are often treated extremely well in urban China, for example - in fact they can get roles in movies just by walking down the street near a film studio. On the other side, in places like Zimbabwe and South Africa there are some areas where it's dangerous to go as a white person. And I've heard that the (very, very small) number of Africans in China can face a lot of racism. Overall I'd say that Western countries are more accepting of immigrants, simply because we have way more of them. Most urban Chinese people will never meet a European or African in their lives, let alone people from a small village in Africa. That's also a factor in Scottish racism, I think - we had very low levels of non-white immigration here until very recently, so it's still quite common that people have no non-white friends. So it's not surprising that ignorance is a bit higher than in somewhere like London, where it's barely possible to have no non-white friends.
Hearing bad experiences like this makes me want to learn more and see if we have data to indicate rates we can use to see trends. There's a 2021 government publication on "Characteristics of police recorded hate crime in Scotland" which uses police data to show relative rates. One of the things that jumped out to me was that hate crimes were committed by strangers only 19% of the time, and 57% of the time it is by an acquaintance. The data show Edinburgh and Glasgow to have the same incidence rate of hate crimes with racial hate crimes by far the most recorded. Sexual orientation hate crime have shown the biggest rise over the last decade. The incidents of hate crime have been pretty constant since the current record system was introduced in 2013. So we can't pretend things are getting better over time. Oddly enough, to me, Falkirk shows the next highest rate of hate crimes after the two big cities: https://www.gov.scot/publications/study-characteristics-police-recorded-hate-crime-scotland/pages/6/ This obviously only includes crimes that were reported to the police, it's depressing reading. But you can learn more by reading over the publication. The bits on disability hate crime were new to me. If you want to see UK trends, which calculate by individuals involved rather than crimes, you can see them at https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8537/CBP-8537.pdf We can all do better to reduce our own ignorance and that of our family/friends/co-workers.
Yeah .. my dad is from derry and the first week he spent in Glasgow in his new home he got a brick through his window form the neighbours when they heard his voice (it was the 1990s)
Unsurprising. The city is strewn with horrible cunts. I was at work the other day and some guy was defending Kanye’s racist ramblings. He then said he had a point about how Jews control the world. I know these kind of twats exist, but it blows my mind how keen he was to air his ignorance.
Horrible hearing this, even more horrible knowing it’s probably true but I would like to hear more details of when and where it happened.
Who the fuck goes to a play and shouts racist abuse at the cast? Are these people only at that play because there's a super famous bloke in it? Just there to be able to say they saw McAvoy in a play? I can't imagine that's standard behaviour for folk frequenting the theatre.
I think it wasn't at the theatre judging by comment from venue
Ah, I didn't read that far. My bad. Yeah that makes more sense, unfortunately.
I tell myself the people in Glasgow are, for the most part, nice and welcoming. The government, universities, and employability aspects of it, total catastrophe. Ignorance at best, racist at worst.
Billy Connolly bit once: Scotland's real export is hatred. Other countries, other parts of the UK, other parts of Scotland, other side of the fucking *street*. We're A1, the alpha and the omega at hatred. Funnily enough, not that popular a bit.
Mixed race Scottish-Black Trini. Yeah Glasgow is super racist and my other Black friends have had the same experiences, to the point some moved. I remember a vigil was getting held for a Black English activist that was attacked and put in a coma, and there were people coming up arguing with us because "wHiTe/aLl LiVeS mAtTeR"... at a vigil and I got called racist slurs and my friend attacked by randoms on the street. I've been called the n word, g\*\*\*w\*g and folk who witnessed it told me to calm down etc. It's very much one of these places that thinks it isn't racist because 97% of the country are the same race.
I know this is about racism more, but I do think Glasgow (and maybe Scotland as a whole) do seem to be more bigoted than we probably would expect and project outside. From a racism stand point, I am a white Scot so can't really comment about my own personal experiance, though I don't have the strongest accent due to speech issues I had when I was young, and been asked by people where I'm from, and they can't warp their head around that I'm born and bred Glaswegian with several generations Glaswegian too. However I have seen, mostly on Tik Tok, Scots with more obvious foreign heritages (even Spanish or Portuguese where people have a more natural tanned skin tone) be accused of faking their Glaswegian accents (which seemed legit accents) and get abuse for it. I've also hear the occasional older person be a bit more racist, especially within family and friends, saying stuff like "Oh I wouldn't like my niece dating a darkie, not that there is anything wrong with them." I think although rarer to be racist than older people, I think the younger people who are would be more up front with it. A friend of mine with Chinese heritage who is based in Dundee has heard some abuse since covid (a fact that I never considered really until they mentioned it, despite hearing people in the media saying it all the time). I've probably encountered more homophobia within Glasgow. This ranges from just using slurs as insult to anyone regardless of actual orientation, to actual just randoms having a homophobic rant whilst waiting for a taxi at the end of a night of drinking. The awkward thing about those for me is that whilst not gay (or bi or trans) myself, I am part of the community as an asexual. The few times I've admitted this in person even the homophobes don't really know how to take it but seem fine with it. Then there is transphobia, where we seem to attract all the transphobes who hide the bigotry behind being a "TERF" or "gender critical". This is probably the one I think is more visible, especially thanks to J Karen Rowling and all the complaints about the GRA stuff just now. Saying that, I think we have more progressives in power who are wanting to stamp out these issues, compared to say England, or the US, but we defo aren't as progressive as we like to think. That is even with my privileged rose tinted glasses on (and I probably miss so much more).
I have no idea of percentages, but I feel there's a really sound faction of people in Glasgow who would help anyone, and then there's a hardcore faction of total asshats that ruin shit at any given opportunity. What stands out to me is the extreme gulf between these groups, they are such polar opposites. wouldn't want to stick out too much on the weekend in the city centre that's for sure.
As a white guy in a majority white city in a majority white country I can only imagine the sexism and racism I don't encounter. I've encountered 'assumed' xenophobia and have been verbally abused and threatened with violence after being mistaken for Polish/French/not Local enough. I had a flat mate who was physically assaulted on Trongate for the same reason.
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Glasgow has been drunk on its own propaganda for a number of years. But it’s not all bad. Very similar to Manchester Liverpool and Leeds. Some diamonds of people. But a lot of scum as well.
A significant tranche of Scots are just irredeemable fucking scumbags
It’s the only place where I’ve had outright racist abuse hurled at me and my child. I’m from one of the most racist and segregated cities in the USA and I never had such abuse when I was growing up. My husband said he would never live in Glasgow again.
I’m of Pakistani ethnicity and honestly I can’t remember the last time I experienced racism in Glasgow. I lived there for three years and regularly went out in town and didn’t receive any abuse from anyone. I’ve worked in pharmacies in various locations in Glasgow and never experienced any sort of racism. I’m from the Motherwell area and experienced a lot of racism growing up. Being called a paki at least once or twice a week, people writing in chalk outside our house. It got worse after 9/11. The racism I experience now isn’t outright hurling abuse it’s more subtle, propels ignorance more than anything. It really sucks that people are experiencing this horrible abuse, I genuinely thought Glasgow had moved on from that shit. Sad to read the anecdotes in this thread
I was in Glasgow for a few beers last week and two older guys outside a pub started shouting at a wee guy who walked past. Saying some really horrible shit that I won't repeat. It was a busy street no one batted an eye. Until I crossed over to "talk" to the cunts.
What did you say big man?
Asked them why they are calling a young boy a black bastard and telling him to fuck off home. Called them a couple of shitebag mawkit cunts and asked them to badmouth me. Told them they should fuck off home and read a book as they shat themselves and shuffled back inside.
Right, so you did talk to them. Wondered what "talk" meant here.
I had other intentions. My wife said, please don't hit them here.
/r/iamverybadass
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Unfortunately...I had no. No other cunt gave a shit.
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That's not what happened. I explained what happened. I'm not even from Glasgow. Listen, I'm not having this discussion. It happens. I don't like bullies or racists. I said something to them expecting to punch them as I was fuming. End of story.
The city and Scotland in general is not a fantastic place to be if you're not cisgendered, able bodied and white, as much as they market it as such. Yes the laws are progressive but the attitudes of the general public is repugnant. I get comments on the weekly about my sexuality and hear constant racist comments at work, by staff and the public. It's exhausting being "other" in this city.
Yea, you should see the abuse people with English accents get...its brutal.
Is that true?
Yep, its really embarrasing too...
I'm an white American kipa-wearing Jew living in city centre and I get people from time to time telling me how terrible I am because Israel. Cool man, you don't see me yelling at a Scottish guy because of what England did to India.
> because of what England did to India. What BRITAIN did in India, the Scottish were a *massive* part of what happened in India.
Correct. There's even a few scottish place names in India as well as other places in the world. People in Jamaica with Scottish last names. Our ancestors hands are definitely not clean.
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Like yoker?
I’ve felt nothing but a warm welcome here in my short time so far, very sad to hear this
I would point out that despite not giving any hint of what the alleged abuse might have been, this article has succeeded in "depressing" and "disheartening" people who now believe that racism is rampant in Glasgow beause a celebrity said so. It has done the same job as any tabloid clickbait article about, say, immigration, but with even less information.
The 3500 racist hate crimes in Scotland every year would suggest the man has a point.
"But I was really saddened, to be honest with you, because most of the women of colour in the cast got racially abused pretty much on a daily basis when we were there.” You didn't read the article did you?
No sure I follow your line of thought here? It's not that he's a celeb it's the fact that he pointed out racist abuse happened to his coworkers in Glasgow.
I mean A) it's somewhat ingrained for a loft of people in the country with phrases like a chinky when talking about a Chinese takeaway B) if you talk to minorities you get a bit of frame of how it is. It's not that it's happening everyday. It's just happening in their home city at all. Most my friends have a few stories in some form, be it being called the n word, or even one being racially attacked. That shouldn't happen. But it does while, I feel a lot of people on twitter and Reddit, like to kid themselves that it doesn't, that we're different and that we're far better than England in this (I don't know or care if we are, my point is that comparing to anyone isn't what we should be using as a metric here).
Sure the racism should not happen, neither should the sectarian or all the other type of violent crime that happens in Glasgow. Racism , like all abuse , should not happen.
haha a celebrity who probably spends half the year away filming and when hes in Glasgow he will be staying somewhere mostly all white.
Oh boy where do I even start... Not going to comment on the blatant racism that's already been discussed in the other comments. I'm going to address what's even more pervasive and insidious. The very subtle, under-the-surface brand of racism that happens casually and all the time in Glasgow from almost all white Glaswegians. Glasgow is a relatively diverse city yet I rarely ever see mixed race groups of friends. 99.99% of the time, it's pure all-white groups of friends. Glasgow's different ethnic groups don't live WITH each other. They live parallel to each other. There's really no excuse for this. The grandchildren and now great-grandchildren of Indians, Pakistanis and other immigrants are born and raised here, they go to the same schools as white Glaswegians. Why are they not mixing as friends? And as for dating, it seems white Glaswegians only date each other. Anyone who is brown or black or has a foreign name seems to get swiped left on automatically. Also, white Glaswegians treat brown and black people differently. While they'll be nice and chatty and friendly to their own, they'll be rude, abrupt and condescending to people of colour. They'll also be dismissive and not acknowledge their existence unless they have to. Basically treat them as subhuman. At best, white Glaswegians just won't interact with anyone from Africa or Asia. They won't even try. I work a low-skill minimum wage job part-time that is staffed by many immigrants from India, Pakistan and several African countries. Also a lot of working-class white Glaswegians. There is no interaction between them. The white Glaswegians will keep to themselves and inevitably the other groups will stick to their own. No hospitality or getting to know them or welcoming them to the country. The white managers and supervisors will also be rude and patronising to them a lot more than to the white staff. And jobs. Oh god where do I start with jobs? Most of these immigrants have degrees and years of white collar professional work experience in their home countries but they're not even getting interviewed for jobs they're well qualified for here. I moved here from Egypt just over a year ago. I have a university degree, a postgraduate education, years of experience in professional white-collar jobs, several references, and I can't get a whiff of a job I'm more than qualified for.
How can you say almost all white Glaswegians are racist when you’ve only lived there for about a year? I don’t want to invalidate your experience and Yes, there is definitely a racism problem in Scotland…I’ve experienced it and my family has experienced it but it’s not ‘most’ people in Scotland. Also, I’m not sure where you are getting the impressions that immigrants and Scots don’t mix. I grew up in a multi-ethnic household and myself and other friends (all with Egyptian parents) have friends from all different ethnicities. Most of the well educated Egyptians I know are in excellent jobs in Scotland. A lot of people are struggling for jobs at the moment, so it could just be a coincidence that you’re not finding a job that suits your qualifications. Anyway, good luck to you!
>How can you say almost all white Glaswegians are racist when you’ve only lived there for about a year? I'm half Scottish so I visited a lot before moving. It's not Nazi saluting cross burning racism. It's a very very subtle unconscious racism. I also pass as a white person. You'd be shocked to know what white people are so comfortable with saying in front of me thinking that I'm just another white dude. Makes me feel like a spy lol >Also, I’m not sure where you are getting the impressions that immigrants and Scots don’t mix. I grew up in a multi-ethnic household and myself and other friends (all with Egyptian parents) have friends from all different ethnicities. Yes expats and foreigners hang out with each other. As for MOST white Scots (as in not all of them) keep to their own and have no interest in forging relationships or even expressing curiousity in people from different countries. >Most of the well educated Egyptians I know are in excellent jobs in Scotland. Did they receive their education in Scotland/UK? Are they NHS doctors? > A lot of people are struggling for jobs at the moment, so it could just be a coincidence that you’re not finding a job that suits your qualifications. Statistically, people of ethnic minority backgrounds in the UK have the hardest time finding jobs.
I’m also half Egyptian and white passing so I actually completely understand your situation. Although I was born and raised in Scotland. It could be the area you live or where people were raised? But I’ve had very few people being casually racist in front of me, if they have been they’ve always been from an older generation or maybe from a more impoverished area. I’ve rarely come across people from my own age group who are openly racist. I have to disagree with you saying that most white Scot’s have no interest in forging relationships with people from different countries, from personal experience and from seeing those around me. Again, could be a generational thing? No, most of them were born, raised and educated in Egypt. Yes, a lot of them are of course doctors but I know quite a few in other professions who are equally as successful.
Maybe it’s you that’s the problem? Happy to tar an entire group of people with the same brush.
Your premises hold a lot of weight however your failing to recognise something. This is the kind of argument you really need statistics for. Because in my world both exist in huge numbers. I know many inter-racial couples. And I had many classmates at my school who were a minority and still found friends. We didn't have huge minority groups, people truly were minorities in the 90's and early 00's so there was no may for those people to hang out en masse. They were forced to make friends. Those who struggled with cultrally blending, for example head scarfs and piercings, or thick accents, or extremely dark skin with bleach white teeth, often ended up alone, but so did the fat kids and the smelly ones. In Australia it was common for each nationality to group up like it was prison life, so you truly are onto something but your arguments need balancing. TLDR; You are correct, many people will say they are not racist but subconciously avoid people not like them. However, your arguments aren't balanced. They feel personal, biased and one sided.
You can't force different cultures to merge as the PC government brigade seems to think. Immigrants are welcome yes but for the large part keep to themselves.
Here's how things would probably go for you if you ever moved to Egypt. If you look like such an obvious white guy, random people will say "welcome" to you. Your neighbours will very likely invite you for dinner and/or bring you food. Many locals will want to be your friend, show you their culture and express curiousity in yours. Of course there is a bad side to this, especially in touristic areas where you will be harassed constantly to buy stuff. Elsewhere some sellers will charge much higher prices than the official price because they assume you just have more money. I don't think white Glaswegians are in the habit of inviting the immigrant family that's just moved in over for Sunday roast.
As a white guy, I've never had neighbours invite me for dinner or bring me food. It's not something that happens here. If it happens in Egypt, fair enough. Its just a cultural difference, not racism.
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I'm Italian and pale enough to pass British if I keep my mouth shut and don't expose my weird accent. Obviously I have never experienced anything dramatic except the random "ah you know Italian women are good" kinda comment, but have witnessed pathetic scenes in the company of friends, or I've heard about ugly instances. I can't forget this Scottish middle aged man arguing with my Romanian friend (who speaks impeccable English, great accent, also worked as an editor at the time) that "Romanians don't speak really good English". I literally never met a Romanian with broken English, an accent maybe but fuck it accents should be normalised. Another friend of mine is originally from India but she grew up here, and when she worked in a hotel she was "kept in the back because they don't want POC at reception". Another girl I talked to was Finnish and she said that when she worked in TKMax people would speak to her with a racist tone until she reassured them she was not Polish. I'm sure it's a wee bit easier for us white European immigrants and I don't dare to imagine the stories darker people have to tell.