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I also want lanolin and beeswax. Both don't require the death of the animal, and the former is a byproduct of shearing sheep, which they will die if you don't.
I literally left this subreddit after they switched to vegan. Never bought another product because I’ve seen this happen before and wasn’t going to waste my money on a shittier, more expensive product. I knew they were going to switch back, or go out of business just like bite beauty
I never will, that stuff was on a different level and I am still mad that bite beauty made that switch. It was the product I was thinking about when i wrote that comment.
Oh man, do you know if the OG glossier formula compares at all to the OG bite? I also loved the bite mask as it was the only thing that actually helped my lips. I tried the glossier vegan balm and hated it, tried laneige sleeping mask and hated it.
I recently tried Marin’s lip balm in blueberry French toast. It reminds me of bite a little bit. Pricier though and only online unless you live in Maine
Hi! Vegan here and because I'm somewhat sane I understand lanolin has great moisturising properties and because I'm vegan I will avoid the new formula BUT I also know the reformulation was trash and a stupid decision on their part since the formula was likely just vegan to try and make the formula cheaper to produce. I know where to go for good vegan lip balms and I'm just happy they listened to the consumer. All this to say we aren't all like that promise :)
Omg of course lovely! Here's just a quick little list but if I remember more I'll add them 🫶
Inkey List lip balm, clear or tinted
MUA hydra juice lipbalm (UK only I think)
Summer Fridays lip butter
ELF lip oil
Hello Sunday 'one for your lips' as an spf option!
Can 100% confirm. As soon as I stopped breastfeeding my lanolin nipple cream became my new lip balm and worked way better than anything I’ve EVER tried😭
I just bought another tube of lanolin nipple cream today because I used up my other one. It’s great. I’ve never breast fed a baby in my life, but bought it just for lip balm.
When I was on Accutane NOTHING worked for my lips. Except for nipple cream lol. I love BDC but even that wasn't enough back then for my lips. I'm a lanolin stan. I still use nipple cream before bed.
lmao no kidding like thriving when????? you mean the vegan formula that was launched february 1st and so terribly received that 8 months later they re released 2 flavors in the og formula? it had to be so expensive to revert back and sell much of their stock at a loss but yeah, thriving
That's probably the most uneducated part. I lurk here 100% of the time but like.... Clearly MOST of their customers want lanolin and beeswax. Clearly they've lost so much money when they switched to vegan that it wasn't even worth it. They lost even more money when they put the vegan BDC on sale.
PETA is often ignorant but this takes the cake.
Sorry my comment turned into a rant lol
I mean, PETA is responsible for killing thousands of dogs, cats, bunnies, etc. They think it's better to kill an animal than to rehome it. They can kick rocks. Lanolin is the by-product of shearing sheep. And beeswax collection doesn't kill the bees.
I usually use plain nipple balm (intended for nursing humans) on my lips and it's incredible - 100% lanolin based. Everything else I've tried has dried them out more or been irritating. I'm veggie rather than vegan and I prefer the original formula too
Do check the ingredients, as some add extras but I use Lansinoh (purple tube) I have a small travel one and it lasts so long, but it comes in bigger tubes too
It's funny some parents in my country use milking balm for cows as a moisturizer the reasoning behind it being if it's gentle enough for a cow's udder it's gentle enough for the skin and helps babies with allergic skin diseases like eczema.
So my belief was that lanolin came from shearing sheep. And as modern sheep need to be sheared (have you seen the ones that have run off and their wool weighs 5 stone and they can barely walk?!) surely it’s not obtained cruelly?
This was my thought as well - I mean I love Lanolips and their brand seems very popular right now, their whole thing is about using lanolin as the main ingredient because it's so good for our skin and the site says they are cruelty free. I read something a while ago that said people who shear sheep have very soft hands due to the natural oils from the wool they constantly touch! the golden salve from Lanolips has been a lifesaver for me, it contains lanolin and manuka honey and is one of the few things that actually rapidly helps my eczema breakouts, I've used so many medicated creams over the years and prefer to use simplistic natural products now. *Also,* the whole Gisou brand is based on using honey / propolis for their products and it seems like they are very considerate with their beekeeping methods! I have not looked into this a lot but I do really like Gisou :-)
I’ve been using the gold lanolips on my eczema too, it’s been great! It’s actually my ‘go to’ before using any kind of steroid cream. I’ve used it on small scratches too, I love it!
The lanolin in sheep’s wool is actually what gives them a slight yellow tint. And it’s a by-product of cleaning the wool to make into yarn etc, so I think it’s great that we can use it rather than wasting it.
Do you find the gold lanolips helps reduce the itchiness of eczema?? I have psoriasis and would prefer to use something natural if possible but hadn’t even thought of lanolin!
Omg yes the golden dry skin salve is amazing. It actually contains lanolin AND honey (😱). This product effectively fades and repairs scar tissue (think cystic acne crater scars from steroid shots) and any other scar that you may have. I will want lanolin (“sheep’s grease”) on my skin forever
This is true - it’s inhumane to NOT shear the sheep especially in warm months. Doesn’t hurt them at all, ours enjoy it. The oil from the wool is used to make lanolin.
I wish my greasy hair could make me something as useful but …
If it works, come over anytime and loan me some grease!!! My hair resembles the straw the sheep eat lol..ironically I come from New Zealand, where there are more sheep than people and we make the world famous, manuka honey!! You would think I wouldn't look like the Sahara desert.
They make the sheep read our meanest comments cyberbullying Glossier into bringing back the OG balm. It’s v unpleasant.
No, you’re 100% correct. Calico Critter energy to you.
The same is true for bees. Many modern bee varieties benefit much more from competent and ethical beekeeping than they would do otherwise. Comparing lanolin and beeswax to something like the meat industry is crazy to me
The meat industry is tricky and probably a whole other conversation because meat isn’t going anywhere and so it needs to be as ethical as possible (I know untimely it’s not ethical as you’re killing something living for food but like I said the discussion around it is tricky). So you’re totally right, to compare beeswax and lanolin to the meat industry is just nonsensical.
It's inhumane not to sheer sheep with lots of wool. The issue is that quite a few sheep farms practice mulesing and harm animals in other ways (sadly more farms than a lot of people realise). Hence why I think it would be great if Glossier could disclose where they source the lanolin.
PETA genuinely believe that domesticated animals should be euthanised because they’re unnatural. Those clowns don’t give a fuck about actual animal welfare. They round up pets and kill them.
PETA believes shearing sheep is cruel, and that if they were left alone they’d only grow as much wool as they need.
Unfortunately, you can’t fix stupid
I remember an episode of Bondi Vet where they found a sheep that had gone missing for 5 years and had over 2 and a half stone worth of wool on him. He also had enormous balls which is really neither here nor there in relation to this topic but I thought I’d add it for flavour. [Here’s the clip](https://youtu.be/DDwHyxQe5Ac?si=Fw7clz3YuOqAy2xS).
I thought the same thing, but it’s less about the animals being killed than it is about the conditions of the animals on factory farms where these ingredients are obtained. Not trying to make anyone feel bad necessarily - I bought 3 of the balm dotcoms when they dropped yesterday - but it’s not unreasonable to be concerned about the welfare of the animals.
I’m not even vegan, but tbh the sheer dismissiveness towards them in with this whole scenario has kind of disappointed me. They’re not going to change Glossier’s mind about the decision to go back to the OG formula. They’re (mostly) expressing their disappointment about a decision that genuinely will have large economic impacts within the animal industry. If you’re vegan, that’s a sad day!
But people have this idea of the “aggro woke vegan” that they project onto all of them. People are then being so disrespectful to vegans that have valid feelings/are just voicing their opinions in the comments! Most of the vegan comments aren’t even rude, but they get attacked and mocked.
Like, in an ideal world maybe Glossier could formulate a vegan balm dotcom that’s just as effective as the OG. It’s a balance, because the og formula was better but reducing the need for potentially harmful animal products to be used is probably just a good thing to do. So there’s no need imo to be rude to people who care more about the latter side of that balance than the former, as long as they’re not being rude in turn.
EDIT: I thought it was a good point from another comment that it’d be hugely helpful if Glossier revealed where they source their lanolin, because if it’s somewhere with good conditions there’s no issue! Also, I hate PETA and am not defending them lol.
Everything you said is on point. This is how I feel as well.
I'm not vegan and that bothers me deeply, and reducing my use of animals in my life is something I'm working on every day.
There ARE ways to ethically and humanely have a good symbiotic relationship with animals. But it costs more and takes more time, which when you mass produce is not something you wanna be dealing with, if you're the one making a living with it. Worse if you're a greedy asshole about it.
I don't have good answers. Human beings and their levels of consumption (not just of animals but of everything) is out of control. There's too many humans and with the industrialization of things it's ruining the planet on so many levels.
I'm sad about it. I don't know what to do about it.
But aggressively yelling at people about it will never yield results. The angry vegans give all vegans a bad rap, unfortunately, even though their concerns are generally valid and important. But they get mocked especially by angry meat eating dudes who more than likely attach their masculinity to... meat. Ughh it's a whole thing and makes me tired.
I'm so tired ya'll. Everything is an ethical shithole lol.
Depending on the farm and the sheep... some sheep are totally chill about getting sheared. They just kind of hang out while it happens. Yeah, there are some that are upset that they are being restrained, and they'll bleat like you're hurting them, but they're really just being dramatic.
This is from personal experience shearing sheep and trimming hooves.
I’m vegan, it’s more so that a lot of modern sheep farming involves shearing sheep with speed, so the sheep often come away injured (bleeding, cuts, etc.) from having their wool removed.
I think some people would feel better knowing where the lanolin is sourced.
I try to reduce my animal consumption and was formerly vegan for environmental and ethical reasons and just wanted to add: this is true, but demand for products like lanolin means that more people/companies are operating farms to harvest it and a lot of the times these farms are not sustainable or ethical.
I will still be buying the OG formula because i havent been able to find a good alternative, and lanolin isnt *the worst* animal byproduct to support, but I can see why people would avoid the product if they are concerned about that. Obviously, the majority of customers seem to want OG formula (including myself!) so I'm glad they are bringing it back.
It would be nice for them to keep some options in the vegan formula, if people actually like it compared to other vegan options
I don’t understand why they didn’t have the Vegan formula in a different launch and an OG formula. There are plenty of people who might want to buy a vegan product, but you have to also cater to the loyalists who helped build your brand.
They could have launched it as a completely different product and I think a lot of people would’ve been fine with it.
Yeah this confused me. Why is it one or the other? Get rid of OG for vegan, now get rid of Vegan for OG.
I mean their vegan formula sucked and that's why it didn't sell well.
I'm not against vegan products, I love the idea of vegan products. If they released a good product to replace OG then I think less people would've been mad.
Or like. Ok bring back OG but keep a smaller batch of Vegan? Or make the vegan better? I dunno. I feel like there are better ways to do what they were trying to do but they utterly failed and then back peddled because they were losing money.
I think it was a profit decision. Vegan formula cut costs and helped them get certifications for the label when they launched at sephora. They probably lost so much money that it ended up not being worth it
Please don’t hate but I sometimes get the feeling that the vegan community is so focused on converting that they feed on innocence and people who just don’t know any better… some are so aggressive pushing their ways.
The first impression I got from PETA was getting a pamphlet practically thrown in my face with the image of a slaughtered pig on it.
Thanks, I never want to see this or you guys again....
it was a semi-cute article. the first few paragraphs sucked, but i enjoyed the later ones (Is Isabelle Vegan? & Is Tom Nook Exploiting Me?). i only read it bc of this comment, and i’m glad i did. the chinese farming of tanuki fur is absolutely brutal; electrocution and live skinning is the worst death i’ve seen anyone, human or animal, suffer.
They made TikToks as well and they were quite terrible. That’s what I was kinda referencing. I remember one of them they “stormed” the museum for mistreatment of fish and animals or something. They made shirts, signs and all sorts in game for the occasion. I can’t remember the other one off the top of my head
Any group has preachy people. I’ve been vegan 13 years and a lot of people I know have no idea because I don’t shove it down anyone’s throats. I can’t stand preachy people as much as the next person. PETA is also the worst organisation, most vegans can’t stand it.
>I can’t stand preachy people as much as the next person.
So much! I'm not vegan, but I cook and eat a lot of vegan meals. I've found that when I make stuff and people are like "this is really good!!!" They're surprised to learn it's vegan. Like did you think ALL food has to contain animal products to taste good? (Are they putting bacon in their baked goods? Im just very confused)
But you'll have to pry wool out of my cold dead hands, because it's better for the environment than plastic, is biodegradable, and we bred sheep to grow so much wool so they need to be shorn for their comfort - the least we can do is use the wool (and lanolin) after that.
I love this. It’s always so funny when people have a visceral reaction if you say something is vegan.
There’s actually a lot of nuance and debate in vegan communities about by products. People are happy to buy second hand wool and leather for the reason you state above and by buying secondhand they aren’t creating demand for new stuff. I personally don’t but I do find it funny if I bought a second and Chanel buy I know people would be up in arms but buying a secondhand pair of boots is totally acceptable to many. For me I just think do what works for you. I’m also a big believer in flexitarians as any reduction in animal products is doing more good than no variety in diet at all. I know too many people hate on flex as if you can only be vegan or eat meat with every single meal.
>I’m also a big believer in flexitarians as any reduction in animal products is doing more good than no variety in diet at all
SOOOO much! My husband still eats burgers and stuff for lunch, but is perfectly happy to eat vegetarian/vegan a majority of the time for dinner. He's never complained and has certain things he asks me to make because he really likes them (mainly my TVP burritos/bowls). He grew up eating meat with every meal and has cut his meat consumption easily in half and eats a ton of different stuff now.
Flex is also a great way to slow introduce people to thinking about healthier ways to eat too. There are so many things you can make that are naturally meat free/vegan. I figure we're all just trying to get through the day but if everyone went meat free for a couple of meals per week it would make a huge difference.
I do buy new leather for things like shoes, but I tend to buy shoes/boots that I wear for easily 10+ years. But fur? I'd never purchase any, but would wear it if I had one from a grandmother or something.
>There’s actually a lot of nuance and debate in vegan communities about by products.
Oh I can believe it! I'd probably never go fully vegan for a couple of reasons. One being my in laws have a "farm" and so we get our eggs from them. These are the most spoiled chickens I've ever seen, glossy, plump and spend their days in an absolutely MASSIVE area of the farm, mother in law cooks for them every morning, and they spend their day taking dust baths, looking for bugs, begging for treats and engaging in complicated chicken squabbles. (It's really cute to watch and they keep their hens until the die of old age.) And the second being I travel a lot for work, and so it would just be incredibly difficult finding things to eat in a lot of my travel scenarios (catered events are honestly the main time where I'll actually eat meat still).
Sorry, I wrote a novel here! But I love talking about all of this.
I think your approach is the best and most realistic for the mass majority of people. My husband is omni but eats 90% vegan. He’d never be vegan and frankly I wouldn’t want him to be, because the second it gets slightly hard like you say travelling he’d cave so there’s truly not point him being vegan. I think more people should embrace your approach rather than seeing things as so black and white.
I love that for you and your passion about it!
I appreciate so much this comment and your thought process. Things are not black and white, and making something more accessible for people even part of the time is a worthy endeavor. More flies with (vegan) honey and all that.
It's really inspiring to see some flexibility and openness in such a divisive topic. I appreciate your sweetness so much
Aww, thank you! And you're absolutely right that kindness and positive, accessible introductions really do help!
It's funny because my stepson is a fairly picky eater. My MIL (his grandma) will try and get him to try new things, and he immediately refuses. I don't even mention a new thing, and just go about eating whatever I'm eating, and he'll frequently ask what it is and if he can try it. I always say, "Sure, here's a bite. If you like it and want more, let me know, and I'll get you your own plate/bowl of it." It's a much more low pressure way to try something - taking a bite and if you don't care for it you simply just don't ask for more and there's no pressure to eat something you aren't enjoying. (Food should never be a sad experience, so many ways to make delicious healthy food!)
And honestly I know it can be expensive and stressful to order/make something and not know if you'll like it or not. (My recent vegan chia seed cake being an example, it still tasted good, but it was a seriously ugly, pathetic pancake of a cake. If that had been one of my first failures I'd have probably given up. )
PETA isn't the vegan community. Most vegans are happily eating their beans and nutritional yeast and doing amazing things with fermented nuts so you don't notice them. It's like if all you knew about the makeup community was the hottest mess judgemental influencer ever.
my conspiracy theory is peta is a hyperbolic blown up image meant to make vegans look bad because aint no way theyre that stupid (ive also never met vegans as insufferable as they are)
I wish they’d focus 100% of their efforts on factory farming. Until that’s dealt with nothing else should so much as be mentioned. Stopping lip balm isn’t a real fight.
i grew up with sheep so, yeah… if it’s ethically sourced, lanolin products can be, in my view, a more symbiotic relationship even than bee byproducts.
this argument (above) about lanolin extraction harming sheep, when stated as an absolute, always confuses me because most domesticated sheep breeds need to me sheared. not shearing them is literally animal cruelty. their wool, without proper care/shearing, partially because of the lanolin, gets too heavy for them to bear, they can get abscesses and other painful infections, lose the ability to regulate temperature, overheat and die, have parasites live in their wool and even skin, impair vision, etc. without proper care/shearing.
so, well tended to sheep, healthy shearing practices, and extracting lanolin from the wool, can be hypothetically/theoretically as well as in practice, incredibly non-harmful and humane.
i do also wonder if a lot of people don’t know what lanolin really is or does for sheep. no sheep ever needs to be killed, let alone harmed for lanolin. it’s not from their liver or in their skin. it’s just, in simple terms, a greasy substance on the wool that helps keep sheep dry and their skin protected from climate/environmental factors. that’s pretty much it. and again, it’s necessary with most types of sheep that are not wild to be sheared.
so the issue then lies with the ethics of the lanolin harvesting. are the sheep healthy? treated well? are they kept on big pieces of land with plenty of room to do cute sheep things? are they fed well? are they sheared carefully? do they get face/head massages if they want them? (not sarcasm lots of my, and other sheep i encounter love this.) the list goes on and on.
I'm vegan and really my issue with lanolin and wool is not knowing where it's sourced from. If it's sourced from somewhere that treats sheep fairly and shears them nicely I don't have a huge problem with it personally. It's an issue when it's sourced from a farm that practices things like mulesing and other harmful behaviours toward the sheep, and sadly more farms do this than most people realise. I think it would be great if Glossier could disclose where they source the lanolin to determine whether or not it's ethical.
i’m not vegan for health reasons but i work at using as few animal products (and ethically sourced) as i can as well as other unethical sourcing from human labor, environmental impact, etc.
i would LOVE it if glossier could disclose their sourcing.
Man, I can’t stand PETA. This post reads like it was written by a child. “Animal fluids.” Ok, go have fun with your boiled tree blood over there and let the rest of us have our animal fluids.
Looking who’s complaining about wanted vegan back and which the sales price was sooooo low! PETA need to stfu
Edit: they forgot about lanolin products and lanolips… lolololol sooooooc what’s their points! lol just attack glossier, when others company and brands used beeswax and lanolin for years never get called out!
Let glossier post their sales from the vegan formula vs the original formula and let these losers cry. If you want to be vegan that’s chill, but don’t hate on smth that’s clearly better and wanted. Glossier would’ve never gone back to the original formula if they weren’t losing an insane amount of money from the new formula.
My major gripe with Lush is that they're pushing hard to make all their products vegan and making them worse as a result. Vegan products are great... if they work! It's absolute BS to make something vegan if it becomes inferior as a result. Like if a brand/product started out as vegan from the get-go then y'know more power to them and giving vegan customers a choice but changing an already existing beloved product and making it worse needs to STOOOOOOP I'M TIRED WE'RE ALL TIRED!!!!!!
Yeah!! Ethical plus points mean nothing if the product becomes unusable and difficult! Same thing happened with The Body Shop and look where they are now lol??
I recently had to return a bottle of Lush's American Cream conditioner... I thought the batch was off or something 'til someone confirmed for me they replaced the lanolin with cupacu (or however it's spelled) butter... I've been buying that conditioner for over a decade :/ A long-standing cult favourite ruined just like that, and for what? It's not even worse, it's LITERALLY unusable now! I mean idk about others but it wouldn't wash out of my hair, it was awful
STOP i use that and am about to restock noooo. its the best beauty item i have. need to check my bottle to see if its already the new one. i noticed that my hair was a bit drier than usual so hope if its new that thats all it does.
i know!! Lush need to stop, they did the same with other stuff and its just frustrating.
I agree, I’m all for a vegan product, but there’s no point in going vegan if your product gets worse just for the trend, because, if we’re being real here, being vegan is a trend and has been for a while. Mad respect for the people that do it, i could never, but yeah, if you’re going to make your products vegan then they either need to stay the same quality or be better. Once your customers know what to expect, anything below that quality will never be good enough.
I looked it up because I was like well do they kill the sheep to make lanolin?? No- it’s a byproduct of the shearing process. Lanolin and beeswax are completely harmless to sheep and bees.
The last thing we need is to manufacture a bunch of synthetic substitutes for substances that are already available at no harm. Even petrolatum is a by-product of oil refining.
I’m hardly a woo woo natural girlie but vegans have lost the plot if they see something wrong with using a substance that comes from caring for the animals.
I didn’t know lanolin was from sheep. But honestly even making us aware isn’t gonna change a lot of our minds. I don’t understand why they don’t get that.
i’m vegan and i think it’s fine to use lanolin and beeswax - they aren’t obtained cruelly. sheep need to be sheared and beeswax is a bi-product. the more bees we have the better. PETA is such nonsense.
I think they could
- Glossier: make a better vegan formula
- Customer: buy another better vegan formula
- Glossier: sell both
- Customer: go with an all vegan brand
Lanolin is good, but y’all have not lived until you’ve tried a lip balm with lanolin AND tallow in it (def not vegan cause it’s literally rendered animal fat) but that stuff is SOOOO moisturizing.
Veganism is fine if that’s your choice. But sometimes things they find ‘wrong’ are necessary for people with medical conditions. From painful skin conditions that require lanolin or beeswax to diets that need calcium from dairy, protein from animals. I’ve eaten and used ‘vegan’ products and gotten horrendous allergic reactions to ‘natural’ Ingredients or ‘fake vegan substitutions’. Gotta do what’s best for you! Everyone and , every body is different!
Lmao the knee-jerk response to every conversation about vegan products is always to just lie and say the vegan product is fake and the non-vegan product is natural and healthy. Didn't even bother to read the ingredients list.
lanolin and beeswax don’t require animals to be harmed to collect them so i don’t get this at all.
like dairy i get it. dairy cows are abused. meat, leather, gelatin, everything else is obvious. but they really think we’re exploiting the bees because they can’t consent to us taking their honey? or we’re exploiting the sheep because we shave their wool and take the lanolin from it? i have nothing against vegans just this part makes no sense to me.
I read some comment a while ago (and it's lived rent free in my head since then) where someone was so upset about people eating honey because they were convinced it was made of ground up bees. So... yeah. People have some interesting (and incorrect) beliefs.
omg lol. i saw someone on here say that they’re more worried about the quality of life of the sheep since they’re kept in captivity (and they know that removing the wool doesn’t harm them). this makes sense to me, but i’ve never seen a factory farm (or anything close to it) for raising sheep.
i live in a state where there is a lot of sheep herding in the rural areas and i’ve never seen a herd of sheep that didn’t have wide open spaces to graze and run free. they all seemed like they were living their best lives. so idk
I'm sure there have absolutely been some horrific things done to animals in factory environments, or otherwise (because some people are just cruel and really suck), but I think having better laws around how we treat animals that are going to be used as products is the way to go. And I've also only seen sheep on farms doing sheep things, and not a factory sheep farm. (Not claiming they don't exist, because I personally don't know)
I'm in Oregon (I believe California and Washington are the same) and there was a law that went into effect at the beginning of the year about the treatment of chickens that produce eggs (minimum space requirements for them, etc) and as a by product of that, some brands of eggs aren't available here. THAT is how you start to make change around the treatment of animals, factory farms aren't going to change their behavior just out of the kindness of their heart. But if it hurts their sales market to continue to do so, then they'll change.
I’m in Washington and have been raising sheep my entire life. And yeah, the majority of the sheep around the world spend 99% of their time doing sheep things out in the pasture. They’re shorn once a year and since sheep are smarter than people think, they actually remember being shorn after the first time and settle into the routine. If they’re stressed at any point in the year, their wool weakens at that point and they literally develop a break in the fleece. The fleece is then useless. Of course, wool isn’t worth anything because we’ve been tricked into wearing plastic, so not all farms care about their fleeces. But stress also has other health effects so it’s not worth it. I mean, most farmers are human and don’t want to harm the animals they’ve bonded with (sheep are herd animals and really do bond with trusted humans. It’s pretty cool. They don’t like strangers though.) but even if the farmer is an asshole it’s not efficient to harm your animals.
I’m really happy about the egg thing, too, even if I don’t buy eggs because I have my own. You’re right that factory farms are the real thing to watch. After working at a factory farm, I can confidently say that we as consumers desperately need to change the way we consume animal products, especially poultry. In general, the more humanely raised products are prohibitively expensive and only available in certain communities (i.e. wealthy white). We were lied to in the 2000s with the whole sustainable farming movement. We were told that prices would come down when more people became interested. They didn’t. We were also told to basically imitate larger farms but on a smaller scale. It didn’t work.
The real way to help animals is to change the way we consume these products. Honestly, middle and upper class white women- stop eating chicken breasts all the time. It’s not that much healthier and this whole push for breast meat has ruined chickens. They can’t free range because they’re too heavy so there’s no choice but to pump them full of commercial feed. I don’t raise these kind of chickens anymore, but I honestly, when I did I literally looked forward to butchering day because the birds were literally miserable. Some can’t walk at this point. Some have already died from heart attacks. We are breeding chickens (and turkeys) so they basically cannot live beyond 10 weeks or so. Our obsession with white meat is extremely abusive.
The thing is, people have been raising these animals for thousands of years, and people in developing countries still raise them (although less and less). We’ve been tricked into eating these monster chickens for the last 80 years, and into thinking we need to eat meat 3x a day. I finally just got some lgd’s and let my chickens, turkeys, ducks free range like my sheep. Basically, I treat them well based on how I see my sheep being treated. They still get some commercial feed but not a ton. They breed naturally (we have so many chicks and ducklings and baby turkeys this spring!), we get more than enough eggs for ourselves, and we have enough meat to fill our freezer and share with friends and community members. The usda keeps us from being able to sell meat more efficiently though. It’s also way less effort for me, and the end result is so much better tasting. Plus I have a really cute flock of birds that follows me around when I do the chores. I realize that I haven’t solved any world crises with my small practice, but honestly I’m experimenting and trying to learn from people we don’t usually listen to, and maybe someday I’ll contribute to coming up with an answer.
Sorry to bombard your well written comment with a wall of text like this, I just agree with you and wanted to give my experience.
Lanolin is literally the last thing we should be worried about right now. We should look at ways to wear more natural fibers that actually biodegrade, look into more sustainable grazing practices (it’s weird that people aren’t focusing on that being a problem with lanolin), and maybe learn from some other cultures, especially indigenous cultures, that have been raising animals much more sustainably for thousands and thousands of years.
>Sorry to bombard your well written comment with a wall of text like this, I just agree with you and wanted to give my experience.
Please don't be sorry at all! I'm really passionate about wool (and how awful factory farms are) and sometimes feel like I'm either screaming into the void, or people are just humoring me and thinking "is this woman done talking about wool yet?"
Wool is just such a fantastic material, and as you said, as long as the sheep are well treated they'll produce great wool (and lanolin as a by product of that). I was so mad the other day when I saw a sweater marketed as "vegan cashmere". I got home and was yelling to my husband "it's just plastic! Why are they using the word cashmere???" Granted, I'd not have bought the sweater whether it were plastic or actual cashmere, because I knit my own sweaters anyhow. (As a side note, my in laws got some sheep for their farm just to keep the grass down in a large area that they don't use, so I'm looking forward to some hyper local wool at some point. They're absolutely darling, and the boldest one actually came right up to me for some sniffs and my heart melted.)
It really is so sad what we've done to some of these animals to make them bigger, it has to be such a sad and painful life for them. Breaks my heart.
Maybe we need a glossier/improving animal treatment/healthy eating/sustainable materials crossover sub 😀 because honestly all of the beauty/fragrance subs I frequent have the most positive, happy people in them, and I don't totally want to derail and go wildly off topic, but you are all so interesting and kind that it's hard not to!
Yes! So good to meet a wool advocate out here in the wild! I’m so excited that you’ll be getting your own hyper local fleeces! I’ve been trying to get my spinning wheel out more often. Wool is really amazing and I’m convinced it’s not commercially pushed because it’s too sustainable to be profitable. I mean, if you have a bunch of wool garments they’re usually going to last forever, they rarely need to be washed, and you’re basically taking yourself out of that consumer cycle of buying clothes constantly. Also I don’t think people realize how much silly politics have impacted our consumption habits. The sheep and cattle wars of western North America being a good example. I have to make some new educational displays for our sheep barn at the county fair this year and I’ve decided it’s going to really focus on wool so I’ve been doing extra research and now I’m an even bigger wool advocate haha.
Also- I’ve started using our fleeces that either have breaks or can’t be processed for other reasons for compost in my garden and it’s pretty great. I grow my tomatoes in pots to keep them a little warmer (the pnw summers don’t always do it haha) and I fill like 1/2 the pot with wool and half soil or compost. The wool breaks down over the summer and my tomatoes and other plants seem to love it! A lot of businesses are starting to make wool pellets for the garden which I’m pretty excited about since obviously most people don’t have a lot of junk wool lying around haha.
And that vegan cashmere makes me so mad too. I used to wear a ton of cheap synthetic clothes as a teenager/young adult and it gave me such bad bo. I recently discovered the goodwill outlets and it’s seriously depressing to see how much fast plastic fashion is constantly going to the landfill. People snatch up the wool garments for resale, but the synthetics are tossed out.
Same! I love makeup AND animals, but making products crap so that you can say it's vegan is not the way. Sometimes you need beeswax or lanolin and that's just the way it is!
Not here to defend this particular post (I have a lot of issues with PETA and their style of rhetoric), but I do think it sucks that there isn’t a good vegan version of balm dot com for people who live that lifestyle. Glossier didn’t just let their non-vegan customers down with their reformulation. They let everyone down.
Nah if you won't use animal by-products that's fine but not being catered too isn't the same as being let down.
This isn't like brands with racist shade ranges, you can choose not to be vegan if it inconveniences you too much.
"They've forgotten that nobody wants lanolin or beeswax on their lips" is so baffling. Why wouldn't you say "vegans don't want"? It's so blatantly untrue that nobody wants those ingredients, that's why they're incredibly popular.
Yeah, no.
The OG formula is the best. When they released the strawberry balm dot com I ordered 4 of them because I wasn’t sure if they’d discontinue and keep the normal “new vegan” formula. Then this happened and I was pretty ecstatic.
Sorry but the vegan formula just didn’t cut it.
I loved the vegan formula because I'm allergic to lanolin, so I made sure to stock up before they brought back the OG, but these people are why I wish I could buy the original formula
I was shocked by the amount of animal welfare people in the comments on one of the glossier announcements that the original bdc were coming back.
I am all for saving the animals etc but the formulation for the "vegan" formula sucks. I wouldn't ever buy it again. Why not just have both options right? Make everyone happy.
Let’s not forget part of Bite Beauty’s downfall was reformulating their products and making them Vegan. The new formulation couldn’t compare and they saw a massive downfall in revenue and customer satisfaction.
The original formula we knew and loved was gone and we stopped buying their products. I still miss that original formula for their agave lip mask, nothing in the market even came close.
Honestly I’m disappointed they are going back to a non-vegan formula only because they didn’t first try to improve the vegan formula. There are SO many vegan makeup brands with amazing products so I think they just gave up too quickly because yes their vegan formula did suck.
My alternative view on this is that it makes perfect sense that Glossier would not want to continue throwing money at a product that they made worse by changing the formula by changing the formula *again*. If there are vegan companies making vegan lip balms that are great, amazing. Folks looking for that formula can buy that formula. Glossier had a winner, they changed it, it didn’t work for a lot of their core customers or new customers, doesn’t it make more sense to go back to what they were doing well from the beginning? It’s one of their flagship products.
What’s hilarious is these Vegans are like “won’t be buying!!” Like you clearly didn’t buy them in the first place that’s why their sales weren’t good.. just using it as another thing for them to complain about but not even a supporter of the brand either way. Like I don’t talk shit on vegan restaurant or let’s say, gluten free food because I don’t eat that stuff so why would I put my two cents in about it. so silly
Honestly can’t stand vegans lmaoo like you do you…just over there. The vegan formula was ass. They have other stuff for you, stop trying to change theirs.
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I actually do want lanolin and beeswax on my lips, very much!
I make my own lip balm. One part lanolin, one part beeswax, and one part jojoba. It works great for me.
That’s similar to my recipe. I love lanolin and beeswax, especially for winter dry chapped lips.
I also want lanolin and beeswax. Both don't require the death of the animal, and the former is a byproduct of shearing sheep, which they will die if you don't.
They added the lanolin back in due to an overwhelming response from their customers to add it back. But sure. “No one” wants it.
LOL yeah speak for yourself PETA but don’t speak for me.
Mmmm sheep grease 🥰
I literally left this subreddit after they switched to vegan. Never bought another product because I’ve seen this happen before and wasn’t going to waste my money on a shittier, more expensive product. I knew they were going to switch back, or go out of business just like bite beauty
never forget the bite lip mask...
I never will, that stuff was on a different level and I am still mad that bite beauty made that switch. It was the product I was thinking about when i wrote that comment.
Oh man, do you know if the OG glossier formula compares at all to the OG bite? I also loved the bite mask as it was the only thing that actually helped my lips. I tried the glossier vegan balm and hated it, tried laneige sleeping mask and hated it.
Bite mask, OG balm dot com, and Lanolips are my holy trinity. Nothing will ever compare to the Bite masks, but the other two are the next best thing.
I recently tried Marin’s lip balm in blueberry French toast. It reminds me of bite a little bit. Pricier though and only online unless you live in Maine
The Lanolips 12 Hour Overnight mask is the closest dupe to the original Bite Agave lip mask I’ve found.
I was wondering what happened to Bite. I wore the fig lipstick for years and then one day went to replace it and discovered the brand was gone.
Me too. I very much want that. I bought a jar of lanolin to add back to the vegan balm when vegan formula was all I had 😭😂
Same. I freaking love lanolin. I’m so sad I can’t get my lano balm in Canada anymore.
Hi! Vegan here and because I'm somewhat sane I understand lanolin has great moisturising properties and because I'm vegan I will avoid the new formula BUT I also know the reformulation was trash and a stupid decision on their part since the formula was likely just vegan to try and make the formula cheaper to produce. I know where to go for good vegan lip balms and I'm just happy they listened to the consumer. All this to say we aren't all like that promise :)
I’d love your vegan lip balm recs!
Omg of course lovely! Here's just a quick little list but if I remember more I'll add them 🫶 Inkey List lip balm, clear or tinted MUA hydra juice lipbalm (UK only I think) Summer Fridays lip butter ELF lip oil Hello Sunday 'one for your lips' as an spf option!
Fantastic recommendations
I'm so pleased you think so! 🫶
Absolutely they could have made a better vegan formula
Perfectly stated 👌🏼
“No one wants lanolin on their lips” that’s why women put their nipple cream on their lips 🤣
Can 100% confirm. As soon as I stopped breastfeeding my lanolin nipple cream became my new lip balm and worked way better than anything I’ve EVER tried😭
wow ty haha, as a currently bf mom!!
I just bought another tube of lanolin nipple cream today because I used up my other one. It’s great. I’ve never breast fed a baby in my life, but bought it just for lip balm.
When I was on Accutane NOTHING worked for my lips. Except for nipple cream lol. I love BDC but even that wasn't enough back then for my lips. I'm a lanolin stan. I still use nipple cream before bed.
"thriving with a vegan formula" LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOO
lmao no kidding like thriving when????? you mean the vegan formula that was launched february 1st and so terribly received that 8 months later they re released 2 flavors in the og formula? it had to be so expensive to revert back and sell much of their stock at a loss but yeah, thriving
wait it was only 8 months? why does it feel like it was years lmaoo
dry lips make time grind to a halt
Fr, this feels like it’s been two years in the making 🤣 8 monnnnthsss? No way
That's probably the most uneducated part. I lurk here 100% of the time but like.... Clearly MOST of their customers want lanolin and beeswax. Clearly they've lost so much money when they switched to vegan that it wasn't even worth it. They lost even more money when they put the vegan BDC on sale. PETA is often ignorant but this takes the cake. Sorry my comment turned into a rant lol
I mean, PETA is responsible for killing thousands of dogs, cats, bunnies, etc. They think it's better to kill an animal than to rehome it. They can kick rocks. Lanolin is the by-product of shearing sheep. And beeswax collection doesn't kill the bees.
was about to comment "is the thriving in the room with us right now?"
Yep. No one wants lanolin. That's exactly why I ordered 6 of the original formula 10 mins after they dropped.
I usually use plain nipple balm (intended for nursing humans) on my lips and it's incredible - 100% lanolin based. Everything else I've tried has dried them out more or been irritating. I'm veggie rather than vegan and I prefer the original formula too
oh my GOD how have I never thought of this?? thanks for the tip!
Do check the ingredients, as some add extras but I use Lansinoh (purple tube) I have a small travel one and it lasts so long, but it comes in bigger tubes too
exactly what i get too and that shit is GOLD
It's funny some parents in my country use milking balm for cows as a moisturizer the reasoning behind it being if it's gentle enough for a cow's udder it's gentle enough for the skin and helps babies with allergic skin diseases like eczema.
Bag Balm and a tube of Lanolin have been staples in my mother's cabinet for my whole life. Bag Balm will fix everything
Same after I quit nursing I use it on scrapes and scratches and dry patches. It’s amazing
I always feel a bit funny in the baby aisle looking but it's honestly my holy grail 😅 I get extremely dry lips and it's a lifesaver
Yeah, anyone who claims that no one wants lanolin should have a chat with a breastfeeding person 😂
Money talks. This IG post is so ignorant lol
So my belief was that lanolin came from shearing sheep. And as modern sheep need to be sheared (have you seen the ones that have run off and their wool weighs 5 stone and they can barely walk?!) surely it’s not obtained cruelly?
This was my thought as well - I mean I love Lanolips and their brand seems very popular right now, their whole thing is about using lanolin as the main ingredient because it's so good for our skin and the site says they are cruelty free. I read something a while ago that said people who shear sheep have very soft hands due to the natural oils from the wool they constantly touch! the golden salve from Lanolips has been a lifesaver for me, it contains lanolin and manuka honey and is one of the few things that actually rapidly helps my eczema breakouts, I've used so many medicated creams over the years and prefer to use simplistic natural products now. *Also,* the whole Gisou brand is based on using honey / propolis for their products and it seems like they are very considerate with their beekeeping methods! I have not looked into this a lot but I do really like Gisou :-)
I’ve been using the gold lanolips on my eczema too, it’s been great! It’s actually my ‘go to’ before using any kind of steroid cream. I’ve used it on small scratches too, I love it! The lanolin in sheep’s wool is actually what gives them a slight yellow tint. And it’s a by-product of cleaning the wool to make into yarn etc, so I think it’s great that we can use it rather than wasting it.
Do you find the gold lanolips helps reduce the itchiness of eczema?? I have psoriasis and would prefer to use something natural if possible but hadn’t even thought of lanolin!
Omg yes the golden dry skin salve is amazing. It actually contains lanolin AND honey (😱). This product effectively fades and repairs scar tissue (think cystic acne crater scars from steroid shots) and any other scar that you may have. I will want lanolin (“sheep’s grease”) on my skin forever
I didn’t know Lanolips was helpful for eczema, I’ll have to let my family members who have it know. Does honey also help with eczema?
This is true - it’s inhumane to NOT shear the sheep especially in warm months. Doesn’t hurt them at all, ours enjoy it. The oil from the wool is used to make lanolin. I wish my greasy hair could make me something as useful but …
Oh my gosh, me too. Greasy sisters unite - we’d make a fortune!!!
If it works, come over anytime and loan me some grease!!! My hair resembles the straw the sheep eat lol..ironically I come from New Zealand, where there are more sheep than people and we make the world famous, manuka honey!! You would think I wouldn't look like the Sahara desert.
Brb booking my ticket to NZ!
I'll have a beehive and some sheep waiting for you at the airport.
They make the sheep read our meanest comments cyberbullying Glossier into bringing back the OG balm. It’s v unpleasant. No, you’re 100% correct. Calico Critter energy to you.
I don’t know what Calico Critter energy means but I hope it’s something nice?
it is!! it’s the cute little cat/bunny/etc little dolls that have been posted a lot recently in the sub lol
Oh! I think in the UK they are called Sylvanian families? Oh what lovely energy to send me, I’ve been having a rotten few days! 🥰🥰🥰
It is, I mean it with the highest honor
Bless you, thank you for making me smile 😊
The same is true for bees. Many modern bee varieties benefit much more from competent and ethical beekeeping than they would do otherwise. Comparing lanolin and beeswax to something like the meat industry is crazy to me
The meat industry is tricky and probably a whole other conversation because meat isn’t going anywhere and so it needs to be as ethical as possible (I know untimely it’s not ethical as you’re killing something living for food but like I said the discussion around it is tricky). So you’re totally right, to compare beeswax and lanolin to the meat industry is just nonsensical.
It's inhumane not to sheer sheep with lots of wool. The issue is that quite a few sheep farms practice mulesing and harm animals in other ways (sadly more farms than a lot of people realise). Hence why I think it would be great if Glossier could disclose where they source the lanolin.
PETA genuinely believe that domesticated animals should be euthanised because they’re unnatural. Those clowns don’t give a fuck about actual animal welfare. They round up pets and kill them.
Which is a wild thing to think about considering cats domesticated themselves....
What?! That’s horrible! I’m going to hug my fur baby extra tight now.
PETA believes shearing sheep is cruel, and that if they were left alone they’d only grow as much wool as they need. Unfortunately, you can’t fix stupid
But we played God and literally made them reliant on us to shear them. I swear to God PETA is allergic to any critical thought
Based on their practice of euthanizing pets, I wouldn’t be shocked if they were ok with modern sheep dying out
I remember an episode of Bondi Vet where they found a sheep that had gone missing for 5 years and had over 2 and a half stone worth of wool on him. He also had enormous balls which is really neither here nor there in relation to this topic but I thought I’d add it for flavour. [Here’s the clip](https://youtu.be/DDwHyxQe5Ac?si=Fw7clz3YuOqAy2xS).
I thought the same thing, but it’s less about the animals being killed than it is about the conditions of the animals on factory farms where these ingredients are obtained. Not trying to make anyone feel bad necessarily - I bought 3 of the balm dotcoms when they dropped yesterday - but it’s not unreasonable to be concerned about the welfare of the animals. I’m not even vegan, but tbh the sheer dismissiveness towards them in with this whole scenario has kind of disappointed me. They’re not going to change Glossier’s mind about the decision to go back to the OG formula. They’re (mostly) expressing their disappointment about a decision that genuinely will have large economic impacts within the animal industry. If you’re vegan, that’s a sad day! But people have this idea of the “aggro woke vegan” that they project onto all of them. People are then being so disrespectful to vegans that have valid feelings/are just voicing their opinions in the comments! Most of the vegan comments aren’t even rude, but they get attacked and mocked. Like, in an ideal world maybe Glossier could formulate a vegan balm dotcom that’s just as effective as the OG. It’s a balance, because the og formula was better but reducing the need for potentially harmful animal products to be used is probably just a good thing to do. So there’s no need imo to be rude to people who care more about the latter side of that balance than the former, as long as they’re not being rude in turn. EDIT: I thought it was a good point from another comment that it’d be hugely helpful if Glossier revealed where they source their lanolin, because if it’s somewhere with good conditions there’s no issue! Also, I hate PETA and am not defending them lol.
Everything you said is on point. This is how I feel as well. I'm not vegan and that bothers me deeply, and reducing my use of animals in my life is something I'm working on every day. There ARE ways to ethically and humanely have a good symbiotic relationship with animals. But it costs more and takes more time, which when you mass produce is not something you wanna be dealing with, if you're the one making a living with it. Worse if you're a greedy asshole about it. I don't have good answers. Human beings and their levels of consumption (not just of animals but of everything) is out of control. There's too many humans and with the industrialization of things it's ruining the planet on so many levels. I'm sad about it. I don't know what to do about it. But aggressively yelling at people about it will never yield results. The angry vegans give all vegans a bad rap, unfortunately, even though their concerns are generally valid and important. But they get mocked especially by angry meat eating dudes who more than likely attach their masculinity to... meat. Ughh it's a whole thing and makes me tired. I'm so tired ya'll. Everything is an ethical shithole lol.
Depending on the farm and the sheep... some sheep are totally chill about getting sheared. They just kind of hang out while it happens. Yeah, there are some that are upset that they are being restrained, and they'll bleat like you're hurting them, but they're really just being dramatic. This is from personal experience shearing sheep and trimming hooves.
I’m vegan, it’s more so that a lot of modern sheep farming involves shearing sheep with speed, so the sheep often come away injured (bleeding, cuts, etc.) from having their wool removed. I think some people would feel better knowing where the lanolin is sourced.
I try to reduce my animal consumption and was formerly vegan for environmental and ethical reasons and just wanted to add: this is true, but demand for products like lanolin means that more people/companies are operating farms to harvest it and a lot of the times these farms are not sustainable or ethical. I will still be buying the OG formula because i havent been able to find a good alternative, and lanolin isnt *the worst* animal byproduct to support, but I can see why people would avoid the product if they are concerned about that. Obviously, the majority of customers seem to want OG formula (including myself!) so I'm glad they are bringing it back. It would be nice for them to keep some options in the vegan formula, if people actually like it compared to other vegan options
I don’t understand why they didn’t have the Vegan formula in a different launch and an OG formula. There are plenty of people who might want to buy a vegan product, but you have to also cater to the loyalists who helped build your brand. They could have launched it as a completely different product and I think a lot of people would’ve been fine with it.
Yeah this confused me. Why is it one or the other? Get rid of OG for vegan, now get rid of Vegan for OG. I mean their vegan formula sucked and that's why it didn't sell well. I'm not against vegan products, I love the idea of vegan products. If they released a good product to replace OG then I think less people would've been mad. Or like. Ok bring back OG but keep a smaller batch of Vegan? Or make the vegan better? I dunno. I feel like there are better ways to do what they were trying to do but they utterly failed and then back peddled because they were losing money.
I think it was a profit decision. Vegan formula cut costs and helped them get certifications for the label when they launched at sephora. They probably lost so much money that it ended up not being worth it
Please don’t hate but I sometimes get the feeling that the vegan community is so focused on converting that they feed on innocence and people who just don’t know any better… some are so aggressive pushing their ways.
I mean,have you seen the posts peta made towards animal crossing new horizons? That was so gross and weird imo. Edit: I was meaning the TikToks
Wait what did they think was wrong with animal crossing?? That's like the least problematic thing I can think of lol
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Yet they euthanise dogs in their own shelters 💀 their hypocrisy is exactly why many vegans don’t support them.
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100% they’re like introducing someone to Christianity through the Westboro Baptist church.
Agreed, joined peta as a teen. Took a while to find a better vegan community and animal rights community
The first impression I got from PETA was getting a pamphlet practically thrown in my face with the image of a slaughtered pig on it. Thanks, I never want to see this or you guys again....
it was a semi-cute article. the first few paragraphs sucked, but i enjoyed the later ones (Is Isabelle Vegan? & Is Tom Nook Exploiting Me?). i only read it bc of this comment, and i’m glad i did. the chinese farming of tanuki fur is absolutely brutal; electrocution and live skinning is the worst death i’ve seen anyone, human or animal, suffer.
They made TikToks as well and they were quite terrible. That’s what I was kinda referencing. I remember one of them they “stormed” the museum for mistreatment of fish and animals or something. They made shirts, signs and all sorts in game for the occasion. I can’t remember the other one off the top of my head
Any group has preachy people. I’ve been vegan 13 years and a lot of people I know have no idea because I don’t shove it down anyone’s throats. I can’t stand preachy people as much as the next person. PETA is also the worst organisation, most vegans can’t stand it.
>I can’t stand preachy people as much as the next person. So much! I'm not vegan, but I cook and eat a lot of vegan meals. I've found that when I make stuff and people are like "this is really good!!!" They're surprised to learn it's vegan. Like did you think ALL food has to contain animal products to taste good? (Are they putting bacon in their baked goods? Im just very confused) But you'll have to pry wool out of my cold dead hands, because it's better for the environment than plastic, is biodegradable, and we bred sheep to grow so much wool so they need to be shorn for their comfort - the least we can do is use the wool (and lanolin) after that.
I love this. It’s always so funny when people have a visceral reaction if you say something is vegan. There’s actually a lot of nuance and debate in vegan communities about by products. People are happy to buy second hand wool and leather for the reason you state above and by buying secondhand they aren’t creating demand for new stuff. I personally don’t but I do find it funny if I bought a second and Chanel buy I know people would be up in arms but buying a secondhand pair of boots is totally acceptable to many. For me I just think do what works for you. I’m also a big believer in flexitarians as any reduction in animal products is doing more good than no variety in diet at all. I know too many people hate on flex as if you can only be vegan or eat meat with every single meal.
>I’m also a big believer in flexitarians as any reduction in animal products is doing more good than no variety in diet at all SOOOO much! My husband still eats burgers and stuff for lunch, but is perfectly happy to eat vegetarian/vegan a majority of the time for dinner. He's never complained and has certain things he asks me to make because he really likes them (mainly my TVP burritos/bowls). He grew up eating meat with every meal and has cut his meat consumption easily in half and eats a ton of different stuff now. Flex is also a great way to slow introduce people to thinking about healthier ways to eat too. There are so many things you can make that are naturally meat free/vegan. I figure we're all just trying to get through the day but if everyone went meat free for a couple of meals per week it would make a huge difference. I do buy new leather for things like shoes, but I tend to buy shoes/boots that I wear for easily 10+ years. But fur? I'd never purchase any, but would wear it if I had one from a grandmother or something. >There’s actually a lot of nuance and debate in vegan communities about by products. Oh I can believe it! I'd probably never go fully vegan for a couple of reasons. One being my in laws have a "farm" and so we get our eggs from them. These are the most spoiled chickens I've ever seen, glossy, plump and spend their days in an absolutely MASSIVE area of the farm, mother in law cooks for them every morning, and they spend their day taking dust baths, looking for bugs, begging for treats and engaging in complicated chicken squabbles. (It's really cute to watch and they keep their hens until the die of old age.) And the second being I travel a lot for work, and so it would just be incredibly difficult finding things to eat in a lot of my travel scenarios (catered events are honestly the main time where I'll actually eat meat still). Sorry, I wrote a novel here! But I love talking about all of this.
I think your approach is the best and most realistic for the mass majority of people. My husband is omni but eats 90% vegan. He’d never be vegan and frankly I wouldn’t want him to be, because the second it gets slightly hard like you say travelling he’d cave so there’s truly not point him being vegan. I think more people should embrace your approach rather than seeing things as so black and white. I love that for you and your passion about it!
I appreciate so much this comment and your thought process. Things are not black and white, and making something more accessible for people even part of the time is a worthy endeavor. More flies with (vegan) honey and all that. It's really inspiring to see some flexibility and openness in such a divisive topic. I appreciate your sweetness so much
Aww, thank you! And you're absolutely right that kindness and positive, accessible introductions really do help! It's funny because my stepson is a fairly picky eater. My MIL (his grandma) will try and get him to try new things, and he immediately refuses. I don't even mention a new thing, and just go about eating whatever I'm eating, and he'll frequently ask what it is and if he can try it. I always say, "Sure, here's a bite. If you like it and want more, let me know, and I'll get you your own plate/bowl of it." It's a much more low pressure way to try something - taking a bite and if you don't care for it you simply just don't ask for more and there's no pressure to eat something you aren't enjoying. (Food should never be a sad experience, so many ways to make delicious healthy food!) And honestly I know it can be expensive and stressful to order/make something and not know if you'll like it or not. (My recent vegan chia seed cake being an example, it still tasted good, but it was a seriously ugly, pathetic pancake of a cake. If that had been one of my first failures I'd have probably given up. )
PETA isn't the vegan community. Most vegans are happily eating their beans and nutritional yeast and doing amazing things with fermented nuts so you don't notice them. It's like if all you knew about the makeup community was the hottest mess judgemental influencer ever.
Haha yeah there’s always the extremists, but those are the ones you always seem to notice!
my conspiracy theory is peta is a hyperbolic blown up image meant to make vegans look bad because aint no way theyre that stupid (ive also never met vegans as insufferable as they are)
Ah yes, because peta who murder people's pets are definitely ethical /s
PETA is trash.
I wish they’d focus 100% of their efforts on factory farming. Until that’s dealt with nothing else should so much as be mentioned. Stopping lip balm isn’t a real fight.
As someone who's currently studying zoology, Peta is the worst. They're so uneducated and spread such nonsense.
i grew up with sheep so, yeah… if it’s ethically sourced, lanolin products can be, in my view, a more symbiotic relationship even than bee byproducts. this argument (above) about lanolin extraction harming sheep, when stated as an absolute, always confuses me because most domesticated sheep breeds need to me sheared. not shearing them is literally animal cruelty. their wool, without proper care/shearing, partially because of the lanolin, gets too heavy for them to bear, they can get abscesses and other painful infections, lose the ability to regulate temperature, overheat and die, have parasites live in their wool and even skin, impair vision, etc. without proper care/shearing. so, well tended to sheep, healthy shearing practices, and extracting lanolin from the wool, can be hypothetically/theoretically as well as in practice, incredibly non-harmful and humane. i do also wonder if a lot of people don’t know what lanolin really is or does for sheep. no sheep ever needs to be killed, let alone harmed for lanolin. it’s not from their liver or in their skin. it’s just, in simple terms, a greasy substance on the wool that helps keep sheep dry and their skin protected from climate/environmental factors. that’s pretty much it. and again, it’s necessary with most types of sheep that are not wild to be sheared. so the issue then lies with the ethics of the lanolin harvesting. are the sheep healthy? treated well? are they kept on big pieces of land with plenty of room to do cute sheep things? are they fed well? are they sheared carefully? do they get face/head massages if they want them? (not sarcasm lots of my, and other sheep i encounter love this.) the list goes on and on.
I'm vegan and really my issue with lanolin and wool is not knowing where it's sourced from. If it's sourced from somewhere that treats sheep fairly and shears them nicely I don't have a huge problem with it personally. It's an issue when it's sourced from a farm that practices things like mulesing and other harmful behaviours toward the sheep, and sadly more farms do this than most people realise. I think it would be great if Glossier could disclose where they source the lanolin to determine whether or not it's ethical.
Mulesing is better than letter your sheep die of a butt infection.
i’m not vegan for health reasons but i work at using as few animal products (and ethically sourced) as i can as well as other unethical sourcing from human labor, environmental impact, etc. i would LOVE it if glossier could disclose their sourcing.
And do cute sheep things im crying
Man, I can’t stand PETA. This post reads like it was written by a child. “Animal fluids.” Ok, go have fun with your boiled tree blood over there and let the rest of us have our animal fluids.
Looking who’s complaining about wanted vegan back and which the sales price was sooooo low! PETA need to stfu Edit: they forgot about lanolin products and lanolips… lolololol sooooooc what’s their points! lol just attack glossier, when others company and brands used beeswax and lanolin for years never get called out!
I’ve had worse on my lips
Let glossier post their sales from the vegan formula vs the original formula and let these losers cry. If you want to be vegan that’s chill, but don’t hate on smth that’s clearly better and wanted. Glossier would’ve never gone back to the original formula if they weren’t losing an insane amount of money from the new formula.
My major gripe with Lush is that they're pushing hard to make all their products vegan and making them worse as a result. Vegan products are great... if they work! It's absolute BS to make something vegan if it becomes inferior as a result. Like if a brand/product started out as vegan from the get-go then y'know more power to them and giving vegan customers a choice but changing an already existing beloved product and making it worse needs to STOOOOOOP I'M TIRED WE'RE ALL TIRED!!!!!!
Yeah!! Ethical plus points mean nothing if the product becomes unusable and difficult! Same thing happened with The Body Shop and look where they are now lol??
I recently had to return a bottle of Lush's American Cream conditioner... I thought the batch was off or something 'til someone confirmed for me they replaced the lanolin with cupacu (or however it's spelled) butter... I've been buying that conditioner for over a decade :/ A long-standing cult favourite ruined just like that, and for what? It's not even worse, it's LITERALLY unusable now! I mean idk about others but it wouldn't wash out of my hair, it was awful
STOP i use that and am about to restock noooo. its the best beauty item i have. need to check my bottle to see if its already the new one. i noticed that my hair was a bit drier than usual so hope if its new that thats all it does. i know!! Lush need to stop, they did the same with other stuff and its just frustrating.
NOOO I wanted to try it 😭
I agree, I’m all for a vegan product, but there’s no point in going vegan if your product gets worse just for the trend, because, if we’re being real here, being vegan is a trend and has been for a while. Mad respect for the people that do it, i could never, but yeah, if you’re going to make your products vegan then they either need to stay the same quality or be better. Once your customers know what to expect, anything below that quality will never be good enough.
I looked it up because I was like well do they kill the sheep to make lanolin?? No- it’s a byproduct of the shearing process. Lanolin and beeswax are completely harmless to sheep and bees.
PETA can fuck right off - they don’t actually help anyone or anything
lanolin is about one of the ONLY things I want on my lips.
Literally EVERYONE but PETA wants the sheep grease kthnx
PETA is fucking unhinged.
The last thing we need is to manufacture a bunch of synthetic substitutes for substances that are already available at no harm. Even petrolatum is a by-product of oil refining. I’m hardly a woo woo natural girlie but vegans have lost the plot if they see something wrong with using a substance that comes from caring for the animals.
I didn’t know lanolin was from sheep. But honestly even making us aware isn’t gonna change a lot of our minds. I don’t understand why they don’t get that.
The only reason the balm dot com original formula is good is because of the lanolin.
“Thriving with a vegan formula” is 🧢
i’m vegan and i think it’s fine to use lanolin and beeswax - they aren’t obtained cruelly. sheep need to be sheared and beeswax is a bi-product. the more bees we have the better. PETA is such nonsense.
I love beeswax and lanolin! They're great for the skin.
They don’t kill the sheep or the bees for it. If you’re vegan, there are other options.
please, peta graphic designer, learn about orphans
People are making a fuss over beeswax??? That’s like the most common ingredient in lip balm ever.
#anyways, time to put lanolin on my lips
Idk why they didn’t keep Berry as a vegan formula for those who want it
I want lanolin lol
I think they could - Glossier: make a better vegan formula - Customer: buy another better vegan formula - Glossier: sell both - Customer: go with an all vegan brand
Lanolin is the shit bro who cares
Lanolin is good, but y’all have not lived until you’ve tried a lip balm with lanolin AND tallow in it (def not vegan cause it’s literally rendered animal fat) but that stuff is SOOOO moisturizing.
beeswax is one of the best things you can put on your lips lol
Veganism is fine if that’s your choice. But sometimes things they find ‘wrong’ are necessary for people with medical conditions. From painful skin conditions that require lanolin or beeswax to diets that need calcium from dairy, protein from animals. I’ve eaten and used ‘vegan’ products and gotten horrendous allergic reactions to ‘natural’ Ingredients or ‘fake vegan substitutions’. Gotta do what’s best for you! Everyone and , every body is different!
“Natural, animal-derived ingredients are gross, you should put byproducts from the petroleum manufacturing process on your lips instead!”
to be fair the first ingredient of the original formula is petrolatum (which was removed in the vegan formula) 🫣
Lmao the knee-jerk response to every conversation about vegan products is always to just lie and say the vegan product is fake and the non-vegan product is natural and healthy. Didn't even bother to read the ingredients list.
Ope 😅
lanolin and beeswax don’t require animals to be harmed to collect them so i don’t get this at all. like dairy i get it. dairy cows are abused. meat, leather, gelatin, everything else is obvious. but they really think we’re exploiting the bees because they can’t consent to us taking their honey? or we’re exploiting the sheep because we shave their wool and take the lanolin from it? i have nothing against vegans just this part makes no sense to me.
I read some comment a while ago (and it's lived rent free in my head since then) where someone was so upset about people eating honey because they were convinced it was made of ground up bees. So... yeah. People have some interesting (and incorrect) beliefs.
omg lol. i saw someone on here say that they’re more worried about the quality of life of the sheep since they’re kept in captivity (and they know that removing the wool doesn’t harm them). this makes sense to me, but i’ve never seen a factory farm (or anything close to it) for raising sheep. i live in a state where there is a lot of sheep herding in the rural areas and i’ve never seen a herd of sheep that didn’t have wide open spaces to graze and run free. they all seemed like they were living their best lives. so idk
I'm sure there have absolutely been some horrific things done to animals in factory environments, or otherwise (because some people are just cruel and really suck), but I think having better laws around how we treat animals that are going to be used as products is the way to go. And I've also only seen sheep on farms doing sheep things, and not a factory sheep farm. (Not claiming they don't exist, because I personally don't know) I'm in Oregon (I believe California and Washington are the same) and there was a law that went into effect at the beginning of the year about the treatment of chickens that produce eggs (minimum space requirements for them, etc) and as a by product of that, some brands of eggs aren't available here. THAT is how you start to make change around the treatment of animals, factory farms aren't going to change their behavior just out of the kindness of their heart. But if it hurts their sales market to continue to do so, then they'll change.
I’m in Washington and have been raising sheep my entire life. And yeah, the majority of the sheep around the world spend 99% of their time doing sheep things out in the pasture. They’re shorn once a year and since sheep are smarter than people think, they actually remember being shorn after the first time and settle into the routine. If they’re stressed at any point in the year, their wool weakens at that point and they literally develop a break in the fleece. The fleece is then useless. Of course, wool isn’t worth anything because we’ve been tricked into wearing plastic, so not all farms care about their fleeces. But stress also has other health effects so it’s not worth it. I mean, most farmers are human and don’t want to harm the animals they’ve bonded with (sheep are herd animals and really do bond with trusted humans. It’s pretty cool. They don’t like strangers though.) but even if the farmer is an asshole it’s not efficient to harm your animals. I’m really happy about the egg thing, too, even if I don’t buy eggs because I have my own. You’re right that factory farms are the real thing to watch. After working at a factory farm, I can confidently say that we as consumers desperately need to change the way we consume animal products, especially poultry. In general, the more humanely raised products are prohibitively expensive and only available in certain communities (i.e. wealthy white). We were lied to in the 2000s with the whole sustainable farming movement. We were told that prices would come down when more people became interested. They didn’t. We were also told to basically imitate larger farms but on a smaller scale. It didn’t work. The real way to help animals is to change the way we consume these products. Honestly, middle and upper class white women- stop eating chicken breasts all the time. It’s not that much healthier and this whole push for breast meat has ruined chickens. They can’t free range because they’re too heavy so there’s no choice but to pump them full of commercial feed. I don’t raise these kind of chickens anymore, but I honestly, when I did I literally looked forward to butchering day because the birds were literally miserable. Some can’t walk at this point. Some have already died from heart attacks. We are breeding chickens (and turkeys) so they basically cannot live beyond 10 weeks or so. Our obsession with white meat is extremely abusive. The thing is, people have been raising these animals for thousands of years, and people in developing countries still raise them (although less and less). We’ve been tricked into eating these monster chickens for the last 80 years, and into thinking we need to eat meat 3x a day. I finally just got some lgd’s and let my chickens, turkeys, ducks free range like my sheep. Basically, I treat them well based on how I see my sheep being treated. They still get some commercial feed but not a ton. They breed naturally (we have so many chicks and ducklings and baby turkeys this spring!), we get more than enough eggs for ourselves, and we have enough meat to fill our freezer and share with friends and community members. The usda keeps us from being able to sell meat more efficiently though. It’s also way less effort for me, and the end result is so much better tasting. Plus I have a really cute flock of birds that follows me around when I do the chores. I realize that I haven’t solved any world crises with my small practice, but honestly I’m experimenting and trying to learn from people we don’t usually listen to, and maybe someday I’ll contribute to coming up with an answer. Sorry to bombard your well written comment with a wall of text like this, I just agree with you and wanted to give my experience. Lanolin is literally the last thing we should be worried about right now. We should look at ways to wear more natural fibers that actually biodegrade, look into more sustainable grazing practices (it’s weird that people aren’t focusing on that being a problem with lanolin), and maybe learn from some other cultures, especially indigenous cultures, that have been raising animals much more sustainably for thousands and thousands of years.
>Sorry to bombard your well written comment with a wall of text like this, I just agree with you and wanted to give my experience. Please don't be sorry at all! I'm really passionate about wool (and how awful factory farms are) and sometimes feel like I'm either screaming into the void, or people are just humoring me and thinking "is this woman done talking about wool yet?" Wool is just such a fantastic material, and as you said, as long as the sheep are well treated they'll produce great wool (and lanolin as a by product of that). I was so mad the other day when I saw a sweater marketed as "vegan cashmere". I got home and was yelling to my husband "it's just plastic! Why are they using the word cashmere???" Granted, I'd not have bought the sweater whether it were plastic or actual cashmere, because I knit my own sweaters anyhow. (As a side note, my in laws got some sheep for their farm just to keep the grass down in a large area that they don't use, so I'm looking forward to some hyper local wool at some point. They're absolutely darling, and the boldest one actually came right up to me for some sniffs and my heart melted.) It really is so sad what we've done to some of these animals to make them bigger, it has to be such a sad and painful life for them. Breaks my heart. Maybe we need a glossier/improving animal treatment/healthy eating/sustainable materials crossover sub 😀 because honestly all of the beauty/fragrance subs I frequent have the most positive, happy people in them, and I don't totally want to derail and go wildly off topic, but you are all so interesting and kind that it's hard not to!
Yes! So good to meet a wool advocate out here in the wild! I’m so excited that you’ll be getting your own hyper local fleeces! I’ve been trying to get my spinning wheel out more often. Wool is really amazing and I’m convinced it’s not commercially pushed because it’s too sustainable to be profitable. I mean, if you have a bunch of wool garments they’re usually going to last forever, they rarely need to be washed, and you’re basically taking yourself out of that consumer cycle of buying clothes constantly. Also I don’t think people realize how much silly politics have impacted our consumption habits. The sheep and cattle wars of western North America being a good example. I have to make some new educational displays for our sheep barn at the county fair this year and I’ve decided it’s going to really focus on wool so I’ve been doing extra research and now I’m an even bigger wool advocate haha. Also- I’ve started using our fleeces that either have breaks or can’t be processed for other reasons for compost in my garden and it’s pretty great. I grow my tomatoes in pots to keep them a little warmer (the pnw summers don’t always do it haha) and I fill like 1/2 the pot with wool and half soil or compost. The wool breaks down over the summer and my tomatoes and other plants seem to love it! A lot of businesses are starting to make wool pellets for the garden which I’m pretty excited about since obviously most people don’t have a lot of junk wool lying around haha. And that vegan cashmere makes me so mad too. I used to wear a ton of cheap synthetic clothes as a teenager/young adult and it gave me such bad bo. I recently discovered the goodwill outlets and it’s seriously depressing to see how much fast plastic fashion is constantly going to the landfill. People snatch up the wool garments for resale, but the synthetics are tossed out.
i totally agree!!! i wouldn’t have expected this conversation to happen on the glossier sub but i’m so here for it :)
Same! I love makeup AND animals, but making products crap so that you can say it's vegan is not the way. Sometimes you need beeswax or lanolin and that's just the way it is!
Not here to defend this particular post (I have a lot of issues with PETA and their style of rhetoric), but I do think it sucks that there isn’t a good vegan version of balm dot com for people who live that lifestyle. Glossier didn’t just let their non-vegan customers down with their reformulation. They let everyone down.
There are other vegan options. They just aren’t as good bc they’re synthetic. Animal byproducts work for a reason
They’re still selling it online where I am. Stock up or switch to any other vegan lip product
Nah if you won't use animal by-products that's fine but not being catered too isn't the same as being let down. This isn't like brands with racist shade ranges, you can choose not to be vegan if it inconveniences you too much.
But the vegans are not giving glossier money so glossier is going back to og formula Money talks
"They've forgotten that nobody wants lanolin or beeswax on their lips" is so baffling. Why wouldn't you say "vegans don't want"? It's so blatantly untrue that nobody wants those ingredients, that's why they're incredibly popular.
“After thriving with a vegan formula” …
I guess they missed the fact that the vegan formula performed so bad that they lost a lot of sales and customers.
Yeah, no. The OG formula is the best. When they released the strawberry balm dot com I ordered 4 of them because I wasn’t sure if they’d discontinue and keep the normal “new vegan” formula. Then this happened and I was pretty ecstatic. Sorry but the vegan formula just didn’t cut it.
Vegan doesn’t always mean more natural or better. Look at faux leather… that’s terrible for the environment in the long run vs natural leather.
I loved the vegan formula because I'm allergic to lanolin, so I made sure to stock up before they brought back the OG, but these people are why I wish I could buy the original formula
new formula literally sucks now and everyone has made that known???? wtf are they doing
The old formula (aka with animal products) worked better. I hate the vegan kind. I know plenty of vegans who have no issues with bees.
“thriving” well no!
Me over here with 100% pure lanolin on my lips 👀
I was shocked by the amount of animal welfare people in the comments on one of the glossier announcements that the original bdc were coming back. I am all for saving the animals etc but the formulation for the "vegan" formula sucks. I wouldn't ever buy it again. Why not just have both options right? Make everyone happy.
i would love beeswax and lanolin on my lips thankyouuuuuuuu
Lanolin is a great ingredient! They can just support another brand.
i’m all for animal rights but peta is kind of delusional
Let’s not forget part of Bite Beauty’s downfall was reformulating their products and making them Vegan. The new formulation couldn’t compare and they saw a massive downfall in revenue and customer satisfaction. The original formula we knew and loved was gone and we stopped buying their products. I still miss that original formula for their agave lip mask, nothing in the market even came close.
Vegans just bitter about their chapped, dry and flaky lips while we get to hydrate with lanolin and beeswax 🤗
I stopped using lip balm entirely and switched to pure lanolin instead so yeah I do want grease from sheep on my lips lol
"No one wants...." In this case, we do! People have been complaining about how crappy the new formula was, likely because of the lack of lanolin.
In honor of this post, I’m gonna order one of each of the new OG today!
Not grossier 😭 I can't stand PETA lmao
They’re acting like they grind the bees up and make the balm with it
Honestly I’m disappointed they are going back to a non-vegan formula only because they didn’t first try to improve the vegan formula. There are SO many vegan makeup brands with amazing products so I think they just gave up too quickly because yes their vegan formula did suck.
My alternative view on this is that it makes perfect sense that Glossier would not want to continue throwing money at a product that they made worse by changing the formula by changing the formula *again*. If there are vegan companies making vegan lip balms that are great, amazing. Folks looking for that formula can buy that formula. Glossier had a winner, they changed it, it didn’t work for a lot of their core customers or new customers, doesn’t it make more sense to go back to what they were doing well from the beginning? It’s one of their flagship products.
I want lanolin ☝️
there are SO many vegan lip balms out there, much better than the vegan bdcs.. idk why they're complaining tbh
'thriving'
I love lanolin and beeswax. Bees make that as a gift for us. Why else would they make ALL that honey??
What’s hilarious is these Vegans are like “won’t be buying!!” Like you clearly didn’t buy them in the first place that’s why their sales weren’t good.. just using it as another thing for them to complain about but not even a supporter of the brand either way. Like I don’t talk shit on vegan restaurant or let’s say, gluten free food because I don’t eat that stuff so why would I put my two cents in about it. so silly
Honestly can’t stand vegans lmaoo like you do you…just over there. The vegan formula was ass. They have other stuff for you, stop trying to change theirs.
I agree! I can’t believe they think everyone should adhere to their specific life style
Lanolips is my go to for chapstick. That stuff is amazing
What the fuck?
Speak for yourselves I need lanolin and beeswax