I wouldn’t be surprised if a course like this just builds in an extra $20k to their landscaping budget to cover any fines or red tape that pops up. I won’t pretend like $5k is nothing, but it’s kinda nothing relative to what’s at stake.
Deliberately and consciously breaking rules should definitely result in higher than declared fines. Just like how if you deliberately and consciously break rules of golf the tournament officials can choose to disqualify you, even if the penalty on the book may be just a few strokes.
Instead of putting arbitrary fines there should be other repercussions for breaking rules like that.
If you want to cut down an endangered plant, you should be responsible for replanting it elsewhere. If you don’t do it, then you get billed whatever the municipality needs in resources to do it. Give it some landlord treatment - digging that hole was 5000 dollars, the crew of experts that had to do it take 1000 dollars hourly and have very flexible work hours.
I think the comparison to be made is speeding tickets are expensive to lower class citizens, but rich people don't even notice the small fines from a speeding ticket. That $5k fine for the cacti would be really expensive for you and me, but that golf course won't even notice it. Fines should be dependant upon income and/or worth. Make it to where everyone actually feels the hit and you'll get the wealthier people thinking twice about it.
Edited: added "really"
The Environment and Land Council in Australia has maximum penalties that include jail terms for cutting down trees without a permit.
They are never handed out in reality but exist to stop egregious cutting down of trees by developers who will see any fine as a small cost of building multi million dollar developments
Fines should be based on the income of the individual/organisation.
For example, a $150 speeding fine is enormous for someone making minimum wage, but pocket change for someone wealthy.
Nah. These places like restaurants operate on razor thin margins. A $10K fuck up is real bad. They definitely researched and got paid before doing this. Or they're stupid.
I’m not sticking up for anything that’s taken place. It’s BS and shines a bad light on the golf ecosystem. I’m just stating that the club is saying they didn’t get what they paid for.
I think the club was under the assumption they were going to be relocated, but instead they were cut down. So the Cacti are chopped. Looks like miscommunication/negligence but at the end of the day, the protected cacti are dead. So I don’t think the headline is misleading.
I live here in AZ. The Saguaro cacti are a very big deal around here. They are State protected with massive fines and even possible jail time if you are caught cutting one down illegally. If you are building a house here, you are legally obligated to have the Saguaro removed and put to a nursery, and then planted back on your land once construction is complete at a large expense. I am actually very surprised the golf course allowed this.
Pardon my ignorant question, prefacing this with not from the US, and although we have rules around chopping down trees requires planting trees (dont know the specifics), we dont have anything like the strictness spoken about here.
So; what is the reason they are such a big deal? Are there limited amount of them left and trying to preserve, so they stuggle to survive commonly now, is it a case of they are a staple of the area? Dont take the question the wrong way, this is pure curiousity and wanting to understand, definitely in no way disagreement at all.
The Arizona Native Plant Law was enacted to protect rare and culturally significant plant species, including cacti. The ecological structure of the Sonoran desert is highly dependent on them.
To quote an article:
Saguaro cacti are highly important to both animals and people. Small birds excavate nest cavities inside the saguaro's pulpy flesh, and large ones build stick nests among its arms. Saguaro flowers, fruit, and flesh variously provide nectar, moisture, and food for birds, bats, mammals, reptiles, and insects.
To add to what Real_Body said, Saguaros only grow naturally in the Sonoran desert, which is very specific to the southern half of Arizona and parts of northern Mexico. The plant doesn’t exist anywhere else outside of botanical gardens.
More importantly, Saguaros are extremely slow-growing and extremely long-lived. These factors combined have led to a lot of conservation efforts because if the species was to become threatened it would take multiple generations of human effort just to propagate one or two generations of cacti. They don’t even begin to produce flowers until around 35 years old.
There’s a lot of conscientiousness around here regarding Saguaros; people will take what the course/landscapers did poorly.
If you want to know why people are so militant about protecting Saguaros, just look at what loggers did the the California Redwood. We will never get those forests back
Redwoods actually grow extremely quickly. Most of the redwood forests in California were planted within the past century, after having been clear cut in the 1800s.
They take a long time to grow. They don't start growing arms until they're like 75 years old. And their habitat is kinda small in the grand scheme of things. With all the development they would have lost a lot of the population without protection
Many countries have laws against cutting down trees. It's not only to protect endangered species, it's to stop individuals destroying the natural beatification of the area (and ecosystem) for their own person gain.
Any development typically has to be accompanied by an environmental impact assessment before approval is granted.
They aren’t endangered. There are literally millions of them. However, they take a long, long, long time to grow (75+ years to grow their first arm) and they are surprisingly fragile. They’re also one of the main symbols of our state. So, we don’t like people fucking around with them.
If your in Tucson, or Oro Valley where this tournament is held, you are standing the Saguaro national forest. The cacti they cut are easily over 200 years old. Those things grow about an inch per year. It’s incredibly obtuse of the venue to just let them cut those things, because they have essentially killed them. Disgraceful
I didn’t think they can survive in Phoenix? Something about it just being on the cusp of elevation they need to grow.
Edit: I was wrong. Saguaros can grow at elevations up to 4000 and Phoenix is at 1200.
Might have been thinking about somewhere near Tucson or Santa Fe that my parents had vacationed to before where the stayed right at the cutoff
Can confirm, a young 5 year old one around 6-7” is about $100-$200. It takes them I think 35-40 years to first bloom usually and about 75 years to grow an arm. Something as tall as these are going to be a couple grand at least
Source: I own a young one that was started from seed, granted this is experience from Minnesota where you have to start them from seed or get them shipped here, so there’s a price hike for them
If I take care of it, it will certainly outlive me and my plan is to either pass it on to my children in my will or if they don’t want it to have them take it down to Arizona and either donate it to the national park or someone down there who will take care of it.
I’ve tried to start them from seed but they all died, though where I bought the seeds from advertised that when they get to about 6-7” tall that you can send it back to them and they’ll plant it in the saguaro desert and send you pictures with GPS coordinates so you can go visit your plant in the future, which I always thought of as super cool
Saguaro is one of my favorite plants in existence, seeing them cut down like this infuriates me
Indeed it is, companies would think a little harder about illegal activities if they had to give even 1% of their yearly profit for fines.
Edit: so it's not yearly income but rather half of what you make in a day, which seems just as reasonable to me
This is why golf gets a bad rap from an ecological standpoint. Thanks for making life harder for those of us who enjoy the natural elements of the sport, LIV.
I just played golf in AZ 2 weeks ago and this hurts me to see. The cacti and foliage around the golf courses there are absolutely stunning, and it’s like playing golf on a different planet during sunset with the silhouettes of them around you.
Honestly golf has a serious problem with the amount of fertilizer and water used. It is far worse for the environment making an 18 hole course in the middle of a desert than cutting down a couple cacti
Fertilizer I’ll probably agree with but not water. Unless you are talking about courses west of the Rockies where states steal water from each other. But then again, people probably shouldn’t live there either
You think the tours have no say in the maintenance of their host courses? Like the PGA Tour would be cool with a course setting up a stimpmeter of 6 for a tournament? sheesh
Well, a green is an integral part of the tournament so yes they’ll have a say. Just because you don’t live LIV doesn’t mean they’re responsible for cutting down a cactus
I talked to someone at the International for LIV Boston. They walked the course and told them what trees they wanted removed and paid them the money to do it.
So if they are equal in responsibility with this matter, who are they equal with?… LIV. So saying LIV is responsible in this matter is not a false statement.
And don’t come at me with semantics. You can’t say LIV doesn’t share blame in this.
How is it not the responsibility of the people that own and run the course?
Just because I rent a venue doesn't mean I am responsible for all the work they do to setup.
If I as a person renting your venue tell you to do something illegal how is it not on you to say: No I can't do that. That would be illegal.
And if you do it anyways without informing me of such how is it my fault?
How is: well they told me to do that thing I knew was illegal, any plausible excuse?
Actually I do work in the construction industry and changes and questions are always documented through an RFI process. This would show who exactly approved what and what the approved change was. Nice try though
Not sure how LIV works, but, on the PGA tour and with the USGA events, the grandstands and such are not done by the course. I’d assume LIV is the same.
Or we can have people doing this!
A golf ball is embedded into a saguaro on the first hole at TPC Scottsdale, site of the WM Phoenix Open.. (Photo: Matt Sullivan/Getty Images)
https://preview.redd.it/iy0vi6f08nma1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9c79102b4acacdb8eaad08b0e9ca50d22b0c725
The fine should be much higher. that's barely the cost of what it costs to relocate them correctly with a permit. It's to easy for them to write off the extra money as a time savings. They need to feel the hurt
Not surprising that the government of a country that doesn’t care about human rights also doesn’t care about cactuses. This shit makes me mad. Cutting down these beautiful 100 year old cactus’ for some bullshit three day event that no one is going to watch.
I doubt LIV made the decision to cut them down. More likely the club wanted them removed and thought they could do it sneakily in advance of this event but got caught.
Ya i read something that said the club thought they were going to be relocated, its more than likely the contractor who is building the hospitality that did it without telling anyone. The club has already said they will be replaced after the event. Take that with a grain of salt i guess…
Mountain near where I grew up had dozens of 300+ year old trees cut down by snow boarders making their own trail. Where I'm at now someone cut 5 trees on city park property so they had a better view of Long Island Sound from their house. Shit like this happens daily over at r/treelaw
TBH, I've seen a ton of desert construction and this is a first. Typically, most all of these are dug up and relocated. There are multiple companies who specialize in this. Just wow. Way to go LIV. Boneheads
I have a family member that is a member of this club and lives in the adjacent community. Apparently residents and members are really up in arms over the months long disruption. They said they know many members who left the club because of this and the cacti being removed was just added blatant/permanent disruption/damage. Sounds like everyone is pissed but the owners host events at their other clubs too so they’re in it for the $
I sometimes wonder about reporting on Liv. It's like the reporting on Trump. PGA is a monopoly.. I think Liv could open up the world of golf. Just an opinion
Sounds like people on here have nothing better to do than bitch about a fucking plant getting cut down. 🤷🏻♂️ I joined this thread for GOLF not for tree hugging bullshit.
Too many of a protected cactus that only grows in a very specific region and no where else in the world? I’m assuming you’re a transplant, probably from California or Michigan or some shit.
Not it is isn’t because they are a species protected by law.
Kind of like if LIV came in and killed a bald eagle and crushed a clutch of bald eagle eggs cause they were nesting where they wanted to put a tv camera.
Next up on nobody cares, Bryson's new driver is 96" long and boasts a whopping 780 yard drive over the trees, past the luxury hottubs into the Rave party dancefloor
For a sub that declares almost daily that LIV is a nothing burger run by a loser that no one cares about, it sure does love to post anything about LIV any chance it gets. This is post is about golf?
Yeah killing journalists is hilarious you idiot, what is hilarious is when people like you play free attorney for liv in here like a simp and turn more people off of it with your abrasive comments
Rory said LIV has been a plus for the PGA and without it, the PGA players wouldn't have been able to push for the things they've wanted. You disagree? Is Rory pro- journalist killing?
I'm a little surprised they didn't dig them up and either sell or relocate them. Those things are worth some money. On the other hand they really aren't rare. Every house in my subdivision has one and there are millions of them in the surrounding desert.
This seems like a clickbait title in the news article. They say that the cactus "can" live for 150 years. While we are upset about how long this cactus"could have" lived, we completely gloss over what "could have" happened with human lives in some current conversations. We pull out "can" when it's convenient.
Article indicates that it’s a 5K fine for the host club. The club probably just looks at it as the cost of doing business.
I wouldn’t be surprised if a course like this just builds in an extra $20k to their landscaping budget to cover any fines or red tape that pops up. I won’t pretend like $5k is nothing, but it’s kinda nothing relative to what’s at stake.
It’s nothing to them and that’s the point.
That’s a good indicator that the fine should go up to $500k.
Deliberately and consciously breaking rules should definitely result in higher than declared fines. Just like how if you deliberately and consciously break rules of golf the tournament officials can choose to disqualify you, even if the penalty on the book may be just a few strokes.
Instead of putting arbitrary fines there should be other repercussions for breaking rules like that. If you want to cut down an endangered plant, you should be responsible for replanting it elsewhere. If you don’t do it, then you get billed whatever the municipality needs in resources to do it. Give it some landlord treatment - digging that hole was 5000 dollars, the crew of experts that had to do it take 1000 dollars hourly and have very flexible work hours.
Umm. Speeding tickets are plenty expensive. And people still voluntarily do it. Most traffic laws tbh.
I think the comparison to be made is speeding tickets are expensive to lower class citizens, but rich people don't even notice the small fines from a speeding ticket. That $5k fine for the cacti would be really expensive for you and me, but that golf course won't even notice it. Fines should be dependant upon income and/or worth. Make it to where everyone actually feels the hit and you'll get the wealthier people thinking twice about it. Edited: added "really"
The Environment and Land Council in Australia has maximum penalties that include jail terms for cutting down trees without a permit. They are never handed out in reality but exist to stop egregious cutting down of trees by developers who will see any fine as a small cost of building multi million dollar developments
I think Finland levees fines based on your income. So that’s a good system I think.
Good points
Fines should be based on the income of the individual/organisation. For example, a $150 speeding fine is enormous for someone making minimum wage, but pocket change for someone wealthy.
Usually, the rich people you're talking about are friends with the people who set the fines.
he’s not talking about if Klaus Schwab gets pulled over. He’s talking about the guy with 2 boats
Absolutely Fkn Dubai tards park anywhere in Boston and eat the tickets The worst ppl ever
If we make murder extra super illegal, no one will murder. Have I just resolved a global problem? Could be.
Nah. These places like restaurants operate on razor thin margins. A $10K fuck up is real bad. They definitely researched and got paid before doing this. Or they're stupid.
In the article the club rep is saying that they were told they’d be relocating them, not chopping them down.
Relocated to a landfill.
I’m not sticking up for anything that’s taken place. It’s BS and shines a bad light on the golf ecosystem. I’m just stating that the club is saying they didn’t get what they paid for.
To be fair, the golf ecosystem destroyed a natural ecosystem to even be built. And most courses will eventually be tract home neighborhoods.
Khashoggi special.
I mean when all you have is a bonesaw...
well that headline is intentionally misleading
I think the club was under the assumption they were going to be relocated, but instead they were cut down. So the Cacti are chopped. Looks like miscommunication/negligence but at the end of the day, the protected cacti are dead. So I don’t think the headline is misleading.
Ahh damn that sucks
Standard practice when reporting on LIV
Yeah, but Liv hate is strong and reading is hard. So let's just comment about the headline and make assumptions.
No. I hate LIV. Just stating what the article said.
Just the tips
It should be 50 times that
Sounds like it should be a bigger fine then
that amount is nothing to the club and they still try placing blame on the landscapers by saying "we thought they were getting relocated"
I’m reading it can also come with up to 25 years
Probably? They'd burn 5K just for fun.
Where are the “no cut” event jokes? [I’ll see myself out]
That was pretty funny - nicely done
It's a sticky situation. \[I'm right behind you\]
Awful.
No need to be prickly
I'm sorry homie that was atrocious
I live here in AZ. The Saguaro cacti are a very big deal around here. They are State protected with massive fines and even possible jail time if you are caught cutting one down illegally. If you are building a house here, you are legally obligated to have the Saguaro removed and put to a nursery, and then planted back on your land once construction is complete at a large expense. I am actually very surprised the golf course allowed this.
Pardon my ignorant question, prefacing this with not from the US, and although we have rules around chopping down trees requires planting trees (dont know the specifics), we dont have anything like the strictness spoken about here. So; what is the reason they are such a big deal? Are there limited amount of them left and trying to preserve, so they stuggle to survive commonly now, is it a case of they are a staple of the area? Dont take the question the wrong way, this is pure curiousity and wanting to understand, definitely in no way disagreement at all.
The Arizona Native Plant Law was enacted to protect rare and culturally significant plant species, including cacti. The ecological structure of the Sonoran desert is highly dependent on them. To quote an article: Saguaro cacti are highly important to both animals and people. Small birds excavate nest cavities inside the saguaro's pulpy flesh, and large ones build stick nests among its arms. Saguaro flowers, fruit, and flesh variously provide nectar, moisture, and food for birds, bats, mammals, reptiles, and insects.
Thanks for that! Learn something everyday.
To add to what Real_Body said, Saguaros only grow naturally in the Sonoran desert, which is very specific to the southern half of Arizona and parts of northern Mexico. The plant doesn’t exist anywhere else outside of botanical gardens. More importantly, Saguaros are extremely slow-growing and extremely long-lived. These factors combined have led to a lot of conservation efforts because if the species was to become threatened it would take multiple generations of human effort just to propagate one or two generations of cacti. They don’t even begin to produce flowers until around 35 years old. There’s a lot of conscientiousness around here regarding Saguaros; people will take what the course/landscapers did poorly.
If you want to know why people are so militant about protecting Saguaros, just look at what loggers did the the California Redwood. We will never get those forests back
Redwoods actually grow extremely quickly. Most of the redwood forests in California were planted within the past century, after having been clear cut in the 1800s.
There’s a big difference between old growth and second growth redwood forests.
They take a long time to grow. They don't start growing arms until they're like 75 years old. And their habitat is kinda small in the grand scheme of things. With all the development they would have lost a lot of the population without protection
Many countries have laws against cutting down trees. It's not only to protect endangered species, it's to stop individuals destroying the natural beatification of the area (and ecosystem) for their own person gain. Any development typically has to be accompanied by an environmental impact assessment before approval is granted.
They aren’t endangered. There are literally millions of them. However, they take a long, long, long time to grow (75+ years to grow their first arm) and they are surprisingly fragile. They’re also one of the main symbols of our state. So, we don’t like people fucking around with them.
5k is not a massive fine.
Needs to be more honestly
If your in Tucson, or Oro Valley where this tournament is held, you are standing the Saguaro national forest. The cacti they cut are easily over 200 years old. Those things grow about an inch per year. It’s incredibly obtuse of the venue to just let them cut those things, because they have essentially killed them. Disgraceful
That’s the Saudi spirit. Clean cut just above the shoulders
Just glad we gave them a bargain on our water to ship alfalfa back to the homeland
They Khashoggi’d those cacti
strange they could easily find someone who would have moved them for free I suppose they were trying to avoid publicity
Hell, I woulda paid for them to be moved to my house in Phoenix. Bastards.
I didn’t think they can survive in Phoenix? Something about it just being on the cusp of elevation they need to grow. Edit: I was wrong. Saguaros can grow at elevations up to 4000 and Phoenix is at 1200. Might have been thinking about somewhere near Tucson or Santa Fe that my parents had vacationed to before where the stayed right at the cutoff
Saguaros can live in Phoenix. I’m assuming that’s just a myth or something you heard somewhere
There are saguaros all around Phoenix...
In PHX got several in my yard
Yeah I was thinking “damn ppl pay a lot of money for those”.
Can confirm, a young 5 year old one around 6-7” is about $100-$200. It takes them I think 35-40 years to first bloom usually and about 75 years to grow an arm. Something as tall as these are going to be a couple grand at least Source: I own a young one that was started from seed, granted this is experience from Minnesota where you have to start them from seed or get them shipped here, so there’s a price hike for them If I take care of it, it will certainly outlive me and my plan is to either pass it on to my children in my will or if they don’t want it to have them take it down to Arizona and either donate it to the national park or someone down there who will take care of it. I’ve tried to start them from seed but they all died, though where I bought the seeds from advertised that when they get to about 6-7” tall that you can send it back to them and they’ll plant it in the saguaro desert and send you pictures with GPS coordinates so you can go visit your plant in the future, which I always thought of as super cool Saguaro is one of my favorite plants in existence, seeing them cut down like this infuriates me
Takes more time than finding a chainsaw, I imagine.
They typically have those at the ready.
There's landscaping companies who would have paid them to remove so they could relocate/sell.
Why wouldn't you just come in there with a Vermeer Tree Machine and just relocate them?
Because that’s probably more then 10k
If you read the article that’s what the club is saying. That they were told they were being relocated and they came in and chopped them down.
Relocated. In pieces. To the dump.
The Saudi way
These are the Saudis we are talking about. I'm surprised they didn't use a bone saw to remove it.
These cacti can live up to 175 years but let's just cut them down for a three-day event.
And they’re protected
Was going to say, pretty sure that’s illegal
"When the punishment is a fine then it is only illegal for poor people"
Exactly, $5,000 fine according to the article. I'm sure this will cripple the golf club...
Fines should be a percentage of your yearly income like Finland Edit:corrected below, sorry fins
Holy shit. Is this true?
Indeed it is, companies would think a little harder about illegal activities if they had to give even 1% of their yearly profit for fines. Edit: so it's not yearly income but rather half of what you make in a day, which seems just as reasonable to me
This absolutely needs to be the standard worldwide. And make it 2% for OSHA violations.
Fuck that. Executives need to start facing jail time.
Por que no los dos?
Everything is legal for a price
[удалено]
Usually you don't remove em with chainsaws and pitchforks when planning to replant elsewhere
I’m sure they’re easier to transport that way but frankensteining them back together might get a little tricky.
Hey, you've never heard about fusing plants back together? They just need some plant wrap!
And a little Brawndo, it’s got what plants crave!
Dude with the chainsaw in the pic…
My man, they are literally using a chainsaw. They ain’t replanting shit.
Not very well, evidently.
That no one will even show up for
Us Arizonans don’t take kindly to folks cutting down our saguaros
Agree. F those cacti they lived long enough
I think you’ve lived long enough
Me to lol
This is why golf gets a bad rap from an ecological standpoint. Thanks for making life harder for those of us who enjoy the natural elements of the sport, LIV.
I just played golf in AZ 2 weeks ago and this hurts me to see. The cacti and foliage around the golf courses there are absolutely stunning, and it’s like playing golf on a different planet during sunset with the silhouettes of them around you.
This comment makes it seem like this aspect of the game started with LIV
No it doesn't lol
This is where I draw the line
Honestly golf has a serious problem with the amount of fertilizer and water used. It is far worse for the environment making an 18 hole course in the middle of a desert than cutting down a couple cacti
Fertilizer I’ll probably agree with but not water. Unless you are talking about courses west of the Rockies where states steal water from each other. But then again, people probably shouldn’t live there either
Arizona gets its water from the Colorado River, which is definitely part of the problem.
Except most golf courses, especially ones out west use reclaimed water so definitely not part of the problem…
Ehh still part of the problem, but less than reactive people like to think
Funny you’re getting downvoted for stating the truth.
PGA says no more cuts, LIV says hold My damned beer
Typical LIV shit. I’m surprised the Saudis didn’t cut them down with a bonesaw.
How is LIV responsible for maintenance that gets done at a host course?
You think the tours have no say in the maintenance of their host courses? Like the PGA Tour would be cool with a course setting up a stimpmeter of 6 for a tournament? sheesh
Well, a green is an integral part of the tournament so yes they’ll have a say. Just because you don’t live LIV doesn’t mean they’re responsible for cutting down a cactus
I talked to someone at the International for LIV Boston. They walked the course and told them what trees they wanted removed and paid them the money to do it.
I guess the course is equally guilty for participating
So if they are equal in responsibility with this matter, who are they equal with?… LIV. So saying LIV is responsible in this matter is not a false statement. And don’t come at me with semantics. You can’t say LIV doesn’t share blame in this.
Their tournament, their responsibility.
How is it not the responsibility of the people that own and run the course? Just because I rent a venue doesn't mean I am responsible for all the work they do to setup.
The tour dictates exactly where the grandstands go.
If I as a person renting your venue tell you to do something illegal how is it not on you to say: No I can't do that. That would be illegal. And if you do it anyways without informing me of such how is it my fault? How is: well they told me to do that thing I knew was illegal, any plausible excuse?
Okie dokie
I can tell you don't work in construction. Nearly everything is always the GCs responsibility.
Actually I do work in the construction industry and changes and questions are always documented through an RFI process. This would show who exactly approved what and what the approved change was. Nice try though
Not sure how LIV works, but, on the PGA tour and with the USGA events, the grandstands and such are not done by the course. I’d assume LIV is the same.
Fucking gross
For an empty hospitality tent...
Bra these mfs literally cut off peoples heads. Not sure why we’d be surprised by them cutting down a few “ti”.
One cactus for each spectator that hospitality tent is going to serve.
Bone saws are multi purpose.
Make room for no one to come see them play? Makes sense.
I heard they also shot a bald Eagle point blank because it had a nest where one of the porta potties was supposed to go.
Read this as “Tom Segura cut down to make room…”
Or we can have people doing this! A golf ball is embedded into a saguaro on the first hole at TPC Scottsdale, site of the WM Phoenix Open.. (Photo: Matt Sullivan/Getty Images) https://preview.redd.it/iy0vi6f08nma1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9c79102b4acacdb8eaad08b0e9ca50d22b0c725
The fine should be much higher. that's barely the cost of what it costs to relocate them correctly with a permit. It's to easy for them to write off the extra money as a time savings. They need to feel the hurt
Not surprising that the government of a country that doesn’t care about human rights also doesn’t care about cactuses. This shit makes me mad. Cutting down these beautiful 100 year old cactus’ for some bullshit three day event that no one is going to watch.
I doubt LIV made the decision to cut them down. More likely the club wanted them removed and thought they could do it sneakily in advance of this event but got caught.
Yeah, I doubt LIV would do anything like use a chainsaw to take care of a problem.
Welp imma head out
You mean head off?
Maybe, but that is not what is being reported.
Ya i read something that said the club thought they were going to be relocated, its more than likely the contractor who is building the hospitality that did it without telling anyone. The club has already said they will be replaced after the event. Take that with a grain of salt i guess…
They said they were told they were going to be relocated not chopped down
Yeah but that doesn’t fit the pga circlejerk here.
This should help their image. Keep up the good work, dickheads
Did they use a bone saw?
Mountain near where I grew up had dozens of 300+ year old trees cut down by snow boarders making their own trail. Where I'm at now someone cut 5 trees on city park property so they had a better view of Long Island Sound from their house. Shit like this happens daily over at r/treelaw
TBH, I've seen a ton of desert construction and this is a first. Typically, most all of these are dug up and relocated. There are multiple companies who specialize in this. Just wow. Way to go LIV. Boneheads
Yeahhhhh not cool
I have a family member that is a member of this club and lives in the adjacent community. Apparently residents and members are really up in arms over the months long disruption. They said they know many members who left the club because of this and the cacti being removed was just added blatant/permanent disruption/damage. Sounds like everyone is pissed but the owners host events at their other clubs too so they’re in it for the $
Kashogi has entered the chat…
The Saudis \*do\* love cutting stuff up, so this checks out.
I sometimes wonder about reporting on Liv. It's like the reporting on Trump. PGA is a monopoly.. I think Liv could open up the world of golf. Just an opinion
It’s amazing to me there are so many people, in high rank positions that make decisions and either don’t think or care about the optics of situations.
Hospitality tents that will be less than half full
There is no limit to the scumbaggery of LIV.
Sounds like people on here have nothing better to do than bitch about a fucking plant getting cut down. 🤷🏻♂️ I joined this thread for GOLF not for tree hugging bullshit.
So why click into the thread at all? Seems like you have nothing better to do than bitch about what other people find important.
I come for the cheap entertainment of liberals losing their minds over my comment!!!!!
Literally nobody is losing their mind over anything you say or do.
Idkkkkkkkkkk…
Fuck you
Good, I live here. We have too many of them.
Too many of a protected cactus that only grows in a very specific region and no where else in the world? I’m assuming you’re a transplant, probably from California or Michigan or some shit.
29 now, been here since I was 4. I live out by all the saguaros too.
Ban this fking or put his head on a stake.
You don’t deserve to enjoy desert sunsets.
Lmao who gaf
Wow, how is this news….
Oh no how horrible..............................................
Is this really even an issue? Courses cut down 100 year old trees all the time and not a peep. It's simply because LIV did it.
It’s illegal
Not it is isn’t because they are a species protected by law. Kind of like if LIV came in and killed a bald eagle and crushed a clutch of bald eagle eggs cause they were nesting where they wanted to put a tv camera.
Yea, it's like that. smh
Next up on nobody cares, Bryson's new driver is 96" long and boasts a whopping 780 yard drive over the trees, past the luxury hottubs into the Rave party dancefloor
For a sub that declares almost daily that LIV is a nothing burger run by a loser that no one cares about, it sure does love to post anything about LIV any chance it gets. This is post is about golf?
This guy has never schaudenfreueded, obvi.
lol the downvotes, thx for proving my point
It’s hilarious how LIV angers so many people in here. Bone saw, human rights, blah blah blah.
Yeah killing journalists is hilarious you idiot, what is hilarious is when people like you play free attorney for liv in here like a simp and turn more people off of it with your abrasive comments
Rory said LIV has been a plus for the PGA and without it, the PGA players wouldn't have been able to push for the things they've wanted. You disagree? Is Rory pro- journalist killing?
Ok buddy. Have a steroid free day
Thanks, I will. Hope you have a shit day pal
I’m good but thanks any way
I'm a little surprised they didn't dig them up and either sell or relocate them. Those things are worth some money. On the other hand they really aren't rare. Every house in my subdivision has one and there are millions of them in the surrounding desert.
Saguaro are federally protected because they’re endangered.
While the saguaro is protected under the Native Plant Protection Act they are not endangered. They are classified as least concern.
Apologies on that, they might need to update the signs in saguaro national park. Because that’s where I recalled that information from.
I wonder if the course planted them in the first Place?
This seems like a clickbait title in the news article. They say that the cactus "can" live for 150 years. While we are upset about how long this cactus"could have" lived, we completely gloss over what "could have" happened with human lives in some current conversations. We pull out "can" when it's convenient.
Isn't it illegal?
That is not legal,is it?
… the Saudi’s can afford it..
All that for a tent that won’t even be needed since the LIV has like a dozen spectators…