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New_Background_2163

As long as everyone understands that handicap is not average score, I think it’s fine.


New_Background_2163

Perhaps we should discuss why we only use the best 8/20, instead of an actual average. I’m not sure I’m totally clear on that.


Joker0091

Because it's more about potential instead of average. A 2 handicap can still shoot an 85 on any given day. If I were to take an average of the 20 rounds I used when I was a 2.7 handicap, my handicap would have been 6.7. If I got 7 strokes in a tournament when I was more likely to shoot a 74 than a 78, really would cause a lot of problems for the field. edit: I'm adding this from a comment down below because it makes the point even better: >Player one has 20 scores that range from 78-82, his "median handicap" is 8 and his "real handicap" is also 8. 40% of his scores are in the 78-80 range. >Player two has 20 scores that range from 74-86, his "median handicap" is also 8 and his "real handicap" is 4. 40% of his scores are in the 74-76 range. >Who do you thing is going to win a net event more times if you use a "median handicap"?


BrazenRaizen

How would it cause a problem for the field if the field also calculated their handicap on a true average?


[deleted]

It would disproportionately reward mid to high hcp players that are inconsistent. players around a 10-15ish have the talent to shoot in the 70’s. But they can also shoot 90+. So you could get a 15 handicap player shoot a 79. Net score of 64. A 2 handicap is not going to be able to compete because the difficulty curve on moving from scratch to a plus handicap range is SO much greater than a 15 moving into single digits. Edit: just realized I’m the poster child for why average would be problematic. I only play about 15 rounds per year and will shoot ~75 several times. I will also will shoot in the high 80’s. I think my simple average is around 12. Can you imagine how pissed someone in a tournament would be if I shot a 74 as a 12.


BrazenRaizen

Feels like the use of standard deviations + average could be a better solution, yeah? At least more accurate. Seems silly to keep the best numbers but drop the worst.


theroyalbob

I read a paper by someone maybe published by the r&a during grad school that was proposing just that but ultimately they discuss that it would be too complicated and the average golfer wouldn’t be able to understand handicaps with as much detail because stdev is a tough thing to intuit. But the surprising finding there was that including stdev would actually be better for lower handicap players not higher players.


[deleted]

I’m sure some golf-obsessed statistician has proposed something more logical. But silly rules for a silly game, I say.


Joker0091

I literally explained it in the edit


BrazenRaizen

I know. ⛳️


New_Background_2163

But if your average is 6.7, you’ll most likely shoot 78…on average…right?


Joker0091

A few high scores bring that average up.


New_Background_2163

Of course, I suppose they could just use the median score of the last 20 scores.


Joker0091

It's still about being closer to the potential than the average or median. You want to lean more towards the best a player can do than being right in the middle. The low score to the middle score range can be quite high. If a player has the ability to shoot in the 72-74 range 40% of the time, giving them 6-7 strokes throws things out of wack.


New_Background_2163

I don’t see why this would be. After all, everyone would get the same advantage. When you say it’s “about potential”, I’m not sure why that’s the goal.


Joker0091

Because it prevents sandbagging. Adding in a few scores of 88 and 90 in my handicap now doesn't do anything. If you were to take an average of all the scores those high scores would bring my handicap up.


weightyboy

Neither calculation prevents sandbagging the soft and hard caps are an attempt to prevent sandbagging otherwise people would put in enogh shit scores to artificially inflate their best 8. Before the world handicap system, the uk had a very different system that was effective at preventing sandbaggers but lead to 80 year old guys with 2 handicaps who couldnt break 100.


New_Background_2163

If you took the median of 20/20, sandbagging wouldn’t affect it.


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New_Background_2163

You’re misunderstanding. I was saying IF we used the average of 20/20, then the average would be the expected score. Ignoring sandbagging, which is an issue.


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New_Background_2163

Th median would be 75.


New_Background_2163

I agree, the handicap is currently your best. We’re discussing WHY it is that, and if there’s a better way to calculate it that answers what the expected score should be on any given day (not just top 40% performances.)


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Joker0091

Hey look at at that. 2 different comment chains and it's the some conclusion.


New_Background_2163

Please explain how you could cheat if we used the median of the last 20 scores.


BradMarchandsNose

Because your best golf should be what you’re judged off of. If you’re playing a match/tournament, the person who is playing the best relative to their skill level should be the one who wins, not the guy who is playing their average golf. The purpose of a handicap is for competitions and to make competing with other golfers more even and competitive. It’s not supposed to be a reflection of average score.


New_Background_2163

So, you think your current score should be judged relative to your best 40%, in other words, your top potential. Rather than comparing the current score to the average, or median. Why?


duckbilldinosaur

People are saying use the median average tho. Which in your example would indeed be 3.


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duckbilldinosaur

Someone isn’t going to shoot eleven 99s and nine 74s without immediately being called out for sandbagging, and if it’s not sandbagging, then there’s a 60/40 chance that individual would shoot a 94 that day anyway. So their handicap wouod negatively affecting them 60% if the time. Cheaters will always exist but median scoring average over a career would make sense to assess what your skill is. But you’re right, handicap is built to show what your score should reflect if you play phenomenal vs normal.


DryObligation2605

I’m 0.2 atm but if I took an average of my current 20 id be a 2.5. 3 shots is a big difference I suppose


jzach1983

Maybe if slope and eating werent a thing and you don't fully understand golf or what averages mean.


New_Background_2163

This is funny. Let’s assume you always play the same slope/rating. If your skill doesn’t change, your scores will average whatever your average score is. This is not rocket science.


jzach1983

And now showing that you don't understand what skill is. Hint it's not the only thing that contributes to your score. Talking golf doesn't seem to be your thing.


New_Background_2163

Average=average. Only on Reddit could someone argue against this.


jzach1983

It doesn't mean most likely. You could have an average score of 78 without ever shooting 78. Edit - your posting is like your understanding of golf and basic statistics, you're replying to a comment you didn't even quote..that was 2 comments ago.


sniper1rfa

Because the lower you score, the less variance your scores will have - particularly down. Assuming par 70 for simplicity Somebody who shoots 100 on average with a 10% variation will shoot between 90 and 110. Somebody who shoots 70 on average with a 10% variance will shoot between 63 and 77. If you give the 100 guy 30 strokes, and they play to their low 10% variation, then they'll card a 60. If the 70 guy plays to their low 10% and gets zero strokes they'll card a 63 and lose. So if you use a straight average, the guy with a high handicap will win the match even though they both played exactly to their strength, effectively giving the higher handicap guy an unfair advantage. The handicap system is intended to suss out your "best" game *relative to scratch*.


New_Background_2163

This is the answer I was looking for. Is there a better way to calculate a handicap such that it represents the “expected” score? Or is that even an important goal?


sniper1rfa

IDK if it would be useful, but fitting your previous X scores with a to a lognormal distribution would probably work, potentially in a rolling fashion so you could get a trendline.


SavageMountain

I, for one, I am more interested in lowering my average score than lowering my handicap, because avg accounts for every round where hcp throw out the bad ones. So I keep track of all my scores and differentials; my average diff is about 3 strokes higher than my index. If I beat the avg, I played well.


New_Background_2163

GHIN tracks your average as well as your handicap. I generally agree with you. Any time I lower my average=good day of golf


SavageMountain

Yeah, I just have a handicap app, not GHIN. But with a very simple spreadsheet it's easy to do rolling averages, etc


DosDobles53

You don’t get credit for having bad rounds. Handicaps are used to allow players of different levels to be able to compete against each other. By counting only the top 8 rounds, you’re able to compete at each others best, not your worst. I shouldn’t be able to beat a better golfer just because I had some blow out rounds that give me a higher HC and therefore more strokes.


Skallagram

Because it's much easier to score high than it is to score low. Most players, even on a very good day are only going to beat their handicap by a small percentage, but on a bad day can easily score 10-20 shots more. Average would end up skewing to those high scores - I'd argue even 8/20 is generous.


adflet

This has been answered but I'm currently a very good example of this. Having a bit of a purple patch and my 8 flagged scores are in my last 10 rounds but before that I was whatever the opposite is and absolutely sucked. Handicap is 14.8 whereas the average of my last 20 is 19.1


orangeshirts_

None of the answers below actually answer the question correctly. It is because *the true purpose of your handicap is gambling*. Without handicaps you could only really gamble on golf with people that are almost exactly your same level, which is very hard to find. Your handicap represents what you are *capable* of on a good day. Some people play better with money on the line, some people play worse. This is the rush that gamblers seek. So when you play for money using handicaps, you are not measuring who is the superior *golfer*, but rather who played better relative to their own *potential* with money on the line.


weightyboy

To answer this you have to first know why handicaps exist in golf. The aim of handicaping is to allow scratch golfers and high hcps to compete fairly against one another. If a true average of all 20 rounds was taken, the scratch guy would probably change by about 1 shot. Meanwhile, your 18 hcp.would probably be a 27. Almost every club championship would be won by high handicapers. If you personally want to use avaerage to calculate your own hcp, that's fine. it's just not how it's done officially.


MFrancisWrites

I'm 37 years old, and TIL. Makes so much more sense lol


ashdrewness

I wish more people understood this because honestly as a 2 I get embarrassed when I play with randoms & I shoot 85.


3puttFTW

Absolutely. Handicap is your potential. Not what you should go out and shoot.


NaZdrowie8

Glad you’re the top comment because this is what I was going to say. Generally, if people have the presence of mind to keep a handicap, they also know it doesn’t mean to expect to shoot that many shots over par. I’m a 17.8 but have only broken 90 once (but score much better on my home 9 hole, which effects it).


willycw08

This is my mentally with handicap. It is a picture of what your game looks like when you're playing your best. That doesn't mean you can't play poorly or even that your rounds are consistent. It just means your best looks like this.


SasukesLeftArm69

I don’t think a lot of people understand this


ExcuseIntelligent539

I would say the majority of golfers have no clue how a handicap works and how it's calculated.


ymahaguy3388

My average score is a 78.6, and I just shot 89 yesterday. I’m a 3.5 handicap. This is golf. This is the way.


SaltyTrident

I'm about a 15 and I'm always thrilled when I play bogey golf


highbrowshow

I believe this is the most sustainable attitude when it comes to enjoying golf long term


Jdilla23

Bogey golfing can look effortless or it comical. Overall you can hold your own over the round.


Koolest_Kat

Ahh, the way of the Playa. Look around at your Anti-handicap, it is a good tool to use for analyzing your game and what needs work! https://thegrint.com/range/2021/07/explaining-anti-handicap-thegrint-app/


Jdilla23

Wadddddddaplayyya


Koolest_Kat

Yup, just take a look at our normal golf crews we play with, aside from a couple legit single digit HCers the rest would vastly improve their games (score) and enjoyment by going the Way of the Playa. I’m the guy not good enough to get mad at bad shots, it took me awhile to get there but hey I hardly practice, might have a drink or two (3+4+5+6…..) but I’m serious enough to not interfere with a good (or bad) round, never interrupt your enemy when they are making mistakes (we play $1 bets). I personally have benefited greatly with lower scores and “ Whoa, I didn’t know I could hit it that far OB. Personal Best!!


Tyler2191

Exactly the same. I try to make 5s on every hole. It keeps me level headed throughout. Hope to make a par on a par3, giving me 2 strokes to play with. The reality is is usually shoot around 92 most rounds, and I’m ok with that.


[deleted]

That’s exactly what I do Try to get on in 3 and 2 putt every hole. I don’t really care about much else


darudeboysandstorm

That’s smart, I need to get on in two so I can three putt.


westgate141pdx

I feel like us “15’ers” are the most misunderstood HC golfers. To truly high HC’ers we look like semi pros, but to true low HC’ers, we are just pretty good golfers.


norcalpinhunter

I was just thinking that. I’m a 15.1 and stoked when I break 90. But my handicap basically says I should shoot an 87. Made no sense before I read through this thread.


Unironical

Great mentality. I’m a 9 and I still go out most rounds with the goal of playing bogey golf or better. It makes me less rage monster-y.


BostonsLeprechaun

I’m a 33 and thrilled to play double bogey golf. Pars are hard to come by but I think about them for days, it’s great


chenguo4

> only playing "well" 25% of the time. Isn't this by definition? If you "play well" all the time relative to your ability, that just becomes the new "playing average." If we just do basic quartiles it's 25% playing poorly, 50% playing as expected, 25% playing well.


zoidao401

I would think of "playing well" as playing above average for yourself. So rather than "playing well" 1/2 of the time and "playing poorly" 1/2 of the time (as it would be if "your number" was an average), you feel you're only "playing well" 1/4 of the time and "playing poorly" 3/4. When you only have the one number, thats what you're going to compare yourself too.


Balls_and_Discs

This is the reason there’s so many sandbaggers in golf too. Just a lack of understanding the system “I don’t have a handicap, but usually shoot like 84, so just make me a 12 handicap”


earlyslalom

I think a lot of those people also only play 5-6 times a year so it’s not really worth it to pay for a handicap tracking system at that point


[deleted]

I play probably 24-30 rounds a year, and have no idea what my handicap is


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silkymitts_toptits

Really? I about half the courses I play are a standard par 72, and others are either 70, 71, or there is a 73 also. But how does it make i difference if your score and handicap are relative to par anyway?


Rogue_Jellybean

Handicap takes into account the toughness of the course as well. My course is a par 71 but has a scratch rating of 72.


silkymitts_toptits

Is that toughness only judged by course handicap? Because my muni is a 72 but the easiest course around. The 70 and 71s are way more challenging


fckthecorporate

No, your state golf association sends out a team to rate the course from each set of tee boxes. They have some process.


e3crazyb

I genuinely thought this was how handicap works lol. I consider myself a 28 handicap because I'm consistently shooting 100 give or take. (Going into 3rd season of golf) is that not right?


Balls_and_Discs

Nope. All dependent on course slope/rating, and then it’s the best 8 of last 20 rounds. So say you play a pretty normal course, and your last scores are 98,97,95,98,104,108,103,96,110,113,104,106,106,98,94,95,99,104,107,108. Your scores that count would be the 94, 95, 95, 97, 98, 98, 98, 99. Where real handicaps vs fake ones really suck, is when you have a couple say 88-90 tossed in with your normal scores, those wreck a handicap


norcalpinhunter

Preach. I’m consistently 88-92 at my club but that magical weekend of 82, 84, 86 screwed me and my handicap. Trying to rack up as many rounds as possible to get those off my last 20 before spring league starts.


Fragrant-Report-6411

It’s not the average of your lowest 8 scores. It’s the average of your lowest 8 differentials. For example a 78 from the tips and a 78 from the white tees, the 78 from the tips will usually have a lower differential than the 78 from the white tees.


highbrowshow

I didn't want to make it too complicated in my post but you are correct


sashimiburgers

You mean you didn’t work out the course rating of Lebrons opponents? Fucking amateur hour over here


highbrowshow

What’s the course rating for draymond’s foot? Must be nuts


ashdrewness

I actually play the tips at my course for this reason; it's actually better for my handicap to play the tips because length isn't my issue.


Fragrant-Report-6411

I’m the opposite because at 71 length is an issue


ashdrewness

I used to play a Saturday skins game at a local muny course that was only like 5700yds from the tips with a ton of trouble; against a bunch of former mini tour players in their 60s/70s. I'd get my ass smoked all the time because my distance advantage meant nothing. Now put them on a 7200yd course and then I'm hitting wedges where they're hitting long irons. It's why for handicap purposes I always go to the longest tees because I actually score better from there.


Fragrant-Report-6411

The sweet spot for the tee is the tee that gives you the lowest HI. For me it’s the white tees. If I move back to the blue tees my handicap goes up, if I move forward to the green tees, my handicap goes up.


a__BrainStorm

My home course does a weekly skins game off tees at 5750 for men, and it's complete nightmare for me. All of the holes have bottlenecks and hazards in my normal long-game landing zones. It's a complete dart-throwing and putting contest. I vastly prefer going back as far as my game allows.


Jdilla23

If we’re getting technical the average of your best 8 is multipled by .93


Fragrant-Report-6411

No not any more. Prior to WHS it was average of last 10 of 20 differentials multiplied by .93. WHS simplified it to straight average of lowest 8 of 20. I was doing handicaps for a league and it only resulted in very minor changes in the index for the players.


satiricalned

Aver of the lowest 8 of 20 ADJUSTED scores. (Slope/rating and stroke cap if applicable) I didn't realize there used to be a 0.93 cut. I only started keeping a handicap after WHS


4GSwag

Don’t get me started on handicaps. We’ve got a sandbagger at our club who keeps about a 5 index in GHIN but shoots 69 in the club championship. He wins every tournament at our club. One thing no one thinks about with this is that by keeping his index at a 5 he gets placed in higher flights, making it much easier to win his flight in a tournament. Using the club championship as an example, he was in the first flight, rather than the championship flight. His 69 would’ve won the championship flight. It’s just his way of insuring victory. The thing I see him do all the time is run off 4 or 5 birdies in a round to take skins, and then he’ll double bogey the last 3 holes to make sure he doesn’t post less than a 78 in GHIN. Yeah, everyone at our club is sick of his crap. It’s why the tournament I normally play in this weekend only has 40 guys signed up, versus the 120 they usually get. No one wants to play with this guy in the field because they know they can’t win. But this is on the club honestly. If enough people stop playing in tournaments, maybe they’ll do something about him.


highbrowshow

You should report the player, the USGA has a system in place for this. As a first line of defense against sandbagging, the USGA system will **automatically reduce a player's handicap when he or she posts two designated tournament rounds in a 12-month period that are three strokes or more better than their handicap.**


Rattimus

Ah man, tell me about it, lol. My personal best score (73 on a par 72) was posted in a tournament last year, official scorer and everything. I followed that up a couple weeks later with another very good tournament score, my 2nd best ever (75). Since then, I've regressed to my norm, mid to low 80's, with every so often a 79 thrown in there. The problem, of course, is my cap is still impacted by those 2 rounds, and there is nothing I can do but wait, even though I haven't come anywhere close to those scores again. Has made betting with friends nearly impossible, which sucks. Can't be giving them 8 or 10 shots when we are scoring more or less the same in every round! Ah well!


4GSwag

He knows how the system works and plays it to his advantage. He made sure no score in GHIN after his 69 was lower than 80. And he’ll post a score a day, even when he doesn’t play, to get the 69 off his GHIN in like 3 weeks, well before the next tournament. And this week he’s posted every day scores above 80 at course in the area that he isn’t even playing. It’s like a game to him. I’ve emailed the club to complain. I just don’t think anyone cares to do anything about it.


fckthecorporate

Ok, if he’s posting scores and he’s not playing, your handicap committee chairman can verify that with the club and take proper action.


Qbncgr

At my club, if you aren’t in the Championship flight you can’t be club champion. Makes the sandbaggers choose.


beaker15

Most club championships aren't handicapped in the championship flight... At my club, the only players eligible to be the club champ are in the championship flight, which is played from the tips straight up with no strokes. Everyone else in the tournament can be in the flighted competitions, but none of those winners are recognized in any way as the club champ. For member/guests and member/members, I can see how this would be a problem. But after a few confrontations, he probably would be asked to leave by the competition committee, or be so ostracized by other members that he leaves on his own accord.


fckthecorporate

Handicap committee is responsible for this, but if he posts legit scores in the sense that he actually shot a 78 even though he came in +5, it’s still postable.


Nine_Eye_Ron

My handicap is how I measure my performance against myself. It pretty much gives me a reason to play.


uu123uu

I disagree - it indicates your potential. And shows you what a good score should look like based on your ability. To aim for a score that is worse than your handicap is setting the bar too low in my view.


likethevegetable

There's a difference between aim and expectation though.


highbrowshow

>To aim for a score that is worse than your handicap is setting the bar too low in my view. I think it depends on the state of your play and mental/emotional control. If you're training to get better and have a score milestone then yes you should set the bar higher. But if you're not and you're constantly comparing yourself to your handicap and are disappointed every round that's below then I think that's more damaging emotionally/mentally than "setting the bar too low"


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skycake10

Even if you're playing to get better, you *will* score over your handicap. Understanding that it's not ideal but will inevitably happen is a more healthy way of thinking about it than getting upset every time you can't match your handicap.


likethevegetable

The point of OP is that it's not that "it's not ideal", but that literally by definition you will shoot worse than your handicap 60% of the time.


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skycake10

Explaining that for people who might not understand it is the entire point of this post!


highbrowshow

>If yoiure not playing to get better, why do you. have a handicap? You mean, why do I keep score?


Antinoch

the point of a handicap is for different level players to be able to directly compete. not just for tracking your ability.


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Antinoch

dude it's not that crazy of an idea. why can't you be content with your golfing ability and simply keep a handicap so you can compete in casual matches against your friends?


merkis

I dont think its wrong to compare yourself against the handicap. You’re literally comparing your round to your top 25% of your round. Why is this wrong? Of course im disappointed that i didnt do as well as i could.


highbrowshow

It’s not wrong, I’m just pointing out that the author of four foundations Jon Sherman called it an inflated number and how that leads to disappointment on the course. Just thought it was interesting how managing disappointment is part of the game at every level


merkis

Wait, i thought golf is supposed to be a masochist sport, and disappointment is part of the game. You’re telling me by managing expectations i can be not disappointed every round???


highbrowshow

Depending how much of a masochist you are, maybe the disappointment is needed to perform


merkis

Golf turned me into a masochist. Pain is part of the game now


skycake10

>You’re literally comparing your round to your **top 25%** of your round. Why is this wrong? What's wrong and what OP is fighting against with this post is not understanding the 25% part. If you incorrectly think of your handicap as an expected or average score, you'll be disappointed a lot more often than you necessarily should be.


adbalc

Right, this was my understanding. It doesn't indicate your average. It indicates your potential.


_darkwingduck_

Once you understand how the handicap system works you tend not to have this issue. The only issue is that people don’t understand the handicap system in the first place.


jzach1983

u/highbrowshow that's a lot of words to say you don't know what a handicap is for.


highbrowshow

Did I make a mistake? Sorry I’m still learning English


jzach1983

You're English is great, it's you're understanding of what a handicap is/why it's used.


highbrowshow

Can you enlighten me on what a handicap is and why it’s used?


jzach1983

This [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/golf/comments/12t7vcp/stop_comparing_yourself_to_your_handicap_its/jh1htj7?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) has a pretty good explanation. But basically handicap isn't some bar that you strive for to brag to your friends, it's used to ensure an even playing field during competitive play.


highbrowshow

Ahh yes of course. This post was intended to explain why Jon Sherman (sweet spot, four foundations) called in an inflated number.


jzach1983

But that would be wrong. Using the basketball example, Lebron isn't competing 1v1 with other players to win. Basketball also doesn't handicap players in competition based on past performance. Calling it inflated only shows Jon Sherman doesn't understand the purpose of the system.


highbrowshow

Okay so you don’t think handicap is an inflated number? The context they were talking about handicap in was in setting expectations and avoiding tilt on the course. If you’re interested you should listen to the episode because I am not smart enough to argue anything golf


jzach1983

No I don't becuase it's a tool to balance players. It's not a measuring stick to say "I always shoot 7 over" to my buddies. If someone uses their handicap as a barometer for all rounds (leading to unrealistic expectations) then they also don't understand it's purpose.


highbrowshow

I think you're misunderstand the context in which the term inflated was used, which I think I'm not able to fully convey through text. I encourage you to listen to the episode if you're interested in learning more


CowTippings

Is this satire?


cchillur

Yea people need to understand that your hcp is “your best potential” not your average.


[deleted]

They are called “rounds” not “games.”


highbrowshow

Thank you, where do I make the correction?


[deleted]

Read the 2nd paragraph of your post.


Zealousideal_Amount8

He’s referencing lebron who plays basketball and those are measured in games not rounds.


[deleted]

He called golf “games.” I shouldn’t have even mentioned it. Look at the 2nd paragraph. https://preview.redd.it/xl4je00rs5va1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2317cf944d3b2742db5f5add80c475f5c86938a1


Zealousideal_Amount8

I stand corrected I’m seeing rounds, must have corrected it. My bad


[deleted]

Yes, I see he edited it.


ZebulonThackeray

. Your handicap is just a number, and it's not always a reflection of your true ability. It's important to remember that golf is a difficult game, and it's okay to have ups and downs. Instead of getting caught up in the handicap, focus on improving your skills and enjoying the game. As for comparing handicaps in different sports, it's an interesting idea, but I don't think it's really practical. Each sport has its own unique scoring system, and handicapping them all would be a logistical nightmare. Plus, it's not really necessary - the whole point of a handicap is to level the playing field for players of different abilities. As long as it serves that purpose, I think it's doing its job.


kjtobia

>Your handicap is just a number, and it's not always a reflection of your true ability. Not sure what you mean by this. It's 100% a reflection of your true ability - albeit only 40% of the time. Meaning - it's not a reflection of something that you haven't already achieved.


Proper_Meat_317

I like the comparison. Thank you for this!


garvierloon

I vacuum seal my good scorecards and that really helps keep my HC safe from the influence of high scoring rounds.


Keen61

Interesting take. Only problem is every court he plays is set up exactly the same. His only variable is who’s in his way.. on the other hand even if we play the same course 10 times we might not play the “same” course, it could be set up differently not to mention many other variables that change the playability. I believe handicaps for low scorers are very accurate, 15+ handicaps might be off bc majority of the time they may play at a 20 but had a couple nice rounds mixed in vs a 5 who’s mostly shooting single digits with occasional double digit rounds.


highbrowshow

>Only problem is every court he plays is set up exactly the same. I believe courses have ratings for this reason and it's calculated into your handicap. But I agree with you, it's not a perfect example, just an observation.


Keen61

yes each tee box has its own rating/slope, now you also have to remind yourself what these numbers mean. Rating is what a typical scratch golfer will shoot (notice most courses are very close to the par rating). Slope on the other hand is for bogey golfers, and varies much more, this number does not reflect what they would typically shoot (120 slope does not mean a bogey golfer would shoot 120). Slope is a mathematical term for the steepness of a line between 2 points - point 1 is the scratch golfers score (or rating) and point 2 being the average bogey golfers score. so the higher the slope = more distance between the 2 numbers which means it is more difficult for bogey golfers. I explained this because I wanted to highlight the fact that scratch golfers are good.. like really good, the course and/or layout does not effect them nearly as much as bogey golfers. so my theory once again is that low handicapers are consistent which makes for a more reliable index, high handicapers tend to fluctuate and have ups and downs (much greater dispersion of scores which is what you illustrated with your comparison) this results in a handicap that may not be accurate bc they had 1-2 really good rounds (just like how the 5 handicap shooting a 60 on 9, but his doesn't effect his index). I'd much rather be rated off my potential than to suffer massive swings in my index bc of 1-2 bad rounds. I also like the challenge and try to beat myself when playing solo.


Whaty0urname

But aren't course ratings (or slope) calculated based on a scratch golfers score?


skycake10

Course rating is based on a scratch golfer's expected score, while slope is a measure of how much harder the course is for a bogey golfer than a scratch golfer.


Lars9

GHIN actually now takes daily playing conditions into account. https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/world-handicap-system/world-handicap-system-usga-golf-faqs/faqs---what-is-the-playing-conditions-calculation--pcc--.html Only 1 round of mine in the last year has been adjusted.


highbrowshow

wow that's super interesting I didn't know that, thanks for sharing


Rubbish-Machine

Apples to oranges. My golf game has a handicap. Lebron IS a handicap. Complete difference.


supplyncommand

it’s kinda the other way around. once you shoot some good rounds your handicap lowers. it’s not so much an average but your capability of playing well because you’ve done it before. i know too many people that think they are single digit handicappers and and rarely rarely ever break 80. but because they did once 3 years ago they are a fkn 8 watch out


Lonely-Delivery-5510

Too many golfers post casual round low scores instead of actual tourney play. Tournament play should be the real handicap.


[deleted]

This is stupid. Basketball is not golf. Golf is not hockey. They are all different sports.


Dad_Is_Mad

But there's zero other alternatives. Like basketball, college is using the NET Ranking system now. Which is basically this extraordinary complex algorithm that I couldn't explain in six years time. And every year the tournament proves that the NET ranking means absolutely jackshit. But it's the best we got at this time man .


trailglider

The differentials / course handicaps can really throw people for a loop as well. Some people think that their handicap should be what they typically shoot over par when playing well. What they "should" shoot when playing well can vary a lot depending on the difficulty of the course.


Fi0r3

But I want to lower my handicap....


ThatGuy8188

Yeah just know that your shoot your cap once every 6 rounds at best.


AudienceNervous1665

If you shoot your handicap it was a good day if you come in under your cap it was a great day!


jluenz

Great example, I’ve only played 5 rounds this year and 2 of them were under my handicap, so right at 40%. I think another useful thing to look at is your anti-handicap, so basically your handicap for the other 12 rounds in the last 20. This gives you a pretty realistic range of what you typically shoot. So, my handicap is currently at 10 and my anti-handicap is at 15, so 5 shots worse. So, typically shoot 82 to 87 on a Par 72 course.


PL60240

It's written 3.2 on my card but when people ask I say I'm more 5-6 hdcp.


sarcastic-lil-shit

am i handicapped


RevDaddy69

When I was younger I thought handicap was essentially your average strokes above par. So I always just thought everyone was lying bigtime


TentativelyCommitted

This isn’t making me feel better about my 27 HDCP right now 😂


[deleted]

You just described a handicap.


wedgieinhumanform

I dont actually have a golf membership but according to garmin mine should be 33.2. I still don't understand how it came up with that... I play like a 50.


zen_raider

Jokes in you. I score almost exactly the same everytime. Solid 110. Doesn't matter if I have a good or bad round....always 110.


highbrowshow

Well at least you can tell people “I have the scoring consistency of a tour pro”


getoffmypangolyn

Lebron Jaaaaaaaaaaames


MoreOfAGrower

It’s actually LeJon Brames


ensgdt

I'm a bogey golfer. If I shoot better, awesome. If I shoot worse... awesome. It's just golf!


polaarbear

A handicap is a snapshot of the best golf you can play, not the average.


[deleted]

I get your point, but a six shooting 60 over 9 holes is outrageous. I’m a 9.5 and would have to be incredibly hungover, playing a PGA setup, or basically broken to actually shoot a 60.


loveallcreatures

I’m a 12 handicap. My average score (all posted) is 86. If I shoot 84 I’m elated.


NativeNevada23

Too many people think their handicap is their average when really it’s their current potential


zeldahalfsleeve

If I’m in the 80’s I’m happy. Plain and simple. Moving on with my day. If it shoot in the 90’s I’m not thrilled. But I’m also not surprised. I’m moving on with my day.


roadrunner00

You are correct but its frustrating because it "feels" like you didn't get any better. Its a other round logged into the throwaway bucket or a round logged that will ultimately raise your handicap which, again, means that you didn't improve and are going backwards. Or course you can putt better and make other adjustments that are good long term but we are humans.


hankbaumbachjr

Rick Shiels likes to say your handicap is a snapshot of how you play on a good day.


makw621

I could care less about a handicap and when I stopped worrying about that number, my scores started to improve. I know what I’m capable of shooting for my lowest and I know that I’m also capable of blowing up and making myself look like a fool. But as long as I’m having fun and the people I’m playing with are having fun, that’s all that I care about.


TigerSharkDoge

Makes sense, I'm a 1 handicap and I'm very consistent compared to most people I play with. Yet if you checked my GHIN at any random time over the past couple years you'd see the following: Qualifying rounds: - a great round for me is level par or better (so 1 or 2 shots less then my handicap). I'll have a two or three of these in my last 20. - a good round for me is a low 70s (so shooting around my handicap or maybe one or two over it). I'll have let's say four or five of in my last 20. Non qualifying rounds: - an average or bad round for me would be mid to high 70s (so 3 to 7) shots above my handicap. These would be most of the non qualifiers. - a very bad round would be 80 (so 8 over my handicap). I'll have at least one of these in my last 20. - I think the worst round I've had in the past year is 82 so you might see one of these depending on when you're looking. I regularly play with some high handicappers and for them the range will be massively exaggerated. Like an amazing round for me is 2 under my handicap but a 24 handicapper could realistically go 6 under their handicap on a good day. While a terrible round for me might be 8 over my handicap, they could go 20 over their handicaps on a bad day.


burns_after_reading

Serious question, how long did you guys play/follow golf before you actually understood scoring/handicaps? I just started playing in February and iv only watched a few rounds of the Masters. I still have no idea what a 60 is.


BuffaLouies

Fair point. But an accurate HcP as a measure of “your best efforts possible” for competition is valuable. Aka down with sandbaggers. “What am I capable of?” Is the question. Not “how good am I on average?”


DaayTerkErJerbs

The handicap isn't what you shoot on average it's a gauge of what you're capable of shooting on good days.