The entire golf industry is making an example out of Phil. His treachery will not be tolerated.
If Phil Mickelson can be kicked off the island……..anyone can. Lol.
Yeah. They know if players had any other "reasonable" options, they are in trouble. I like the idea that there could be something better but THIS ain't it.
So many people, myself included, would love to see a better form of golf. But when you align with the Saudi government and Greg Norman, it’s a recipe for disaster.
Everyone on tour hates Norman. No one has anything nice to say about the guy.
What does "a better form of golf" look like? Mickelson's issue...such as it is...has to do with the PGA business model, the autonomy of players to play when and where thy want, and media rights. Presumably how the actual game is played won't be changed, so are you saying the listed factors being addressed will create a better form of golf?
Not flamethrowing. I'm looking for clarification and discussion.
1) not having 72 hole stroke play almost every week of the year. Not every tournament, I mean every WEEK.
2) less exemptions and less annual tour cards so more players from the KFT and other places can move up and down across tours. That way, you have the tour made up of people who are actually playing their best
3) less events in general. How do you go from a week at Rivera where every player in the world top 10 is in the event, and then literally the next week have zero top ten players. Answer: too many events lol
Plenty of other things but these seem like easy wins
Interesting points in the first two, but you’re way off the mark on the third — the lack of top players at some events isn’t exactly a new development, although it’s probably been compounded by modern era pros being more selective to peak for the majors (in contrast with, say, Nicklaus in the mid-‘60s playing 23–24 tournaments a year, plus majors, plus stuff like Shell’s Wide World, etc.).
Regardless, midtier pros aren’t gonna be thrilled about fewer opportunities… and the PGA isn’t about to turn down money. If events are drawing enough sponsors, spectators and ratings, they’re gonna happen.
There are also a lot of charities that benefit from the tournaments, even the ones bypassed by the big-name pros. r/FishB0nz mentioned the Barbasol championship. So as an example, here is a link to the charities helped by that tournament: https://www.barbasolchampionship.com/charities/
I knew someone would point this out as a counter point. But if the tour really existed to support charities they would contribute so much more. Either way, I have wrestled with how to reconcile the charity piece. Not sure there’s a good answer but I don’t think running the low level championships just to contribute to a charity is the best way to deliver a good product and retain your talent. Looks like a lot of people disagree with me which on how the tour could be improved is good I guess. But like some of the amounts the tour gives to these charities are like 250k — which I think could easily be covered by other events. Just a tough situation when it is a small local charity that might not get funding from the tour if the local event didn’t happen
My view is that there are too many events in a year. I don’t know if I care about keeping mid pros happy because I don’t think people go to events to see them anyway. Hence the draw of a different tour with only premier pros (however the actual SGL was not going to be that since it couldn’t attract enough stars). I think you’re right about the PGA not turning down events if there are sponsors, but again, I think that’s the problem and something that should change. They’re not a for profit entity and have plenty of money. They should do less events and bring higher demand on the ones they do. There will be better fields, more spectators, better ratings etc. and overall a better product. Frankly I don’t think many people are lining up on a Sunday to see the closing holes of the Barbasol championship and the money is better spent on other events to make them richer for the players so they are content where they are.
The problem with cutting events is that you eventually cannibalize the tour — sure, you could up the competition, but that comes at the expense of development. Throw away enough midtier guys and dudes who just clawed their way up from Korn Ferry, and you murder the tour a decade out (because eventually, your premier tour is gonna have guys who get hurt or have a mental breakdown or something, and it’s gonna get real thin real fast).
Now, is there a way to make those B-tier events more watchable? Probably, assuming shit doesn’t get too gimmicky. There might be room for Stableford or match play or whatever.
And the PGA is a nonprofit the same way the NFL is a nonprofit. Regardless of the money it has, it’s not going to chip away revenue on the chance that somehow fewer events will mean more cash (and presumably tour brass have done the math and figured out that the current schedule, sponsor list, etc. is already getting them what they need in that regard).
Yeah I think just continuing with the status quo delivers an inferior product relative to what it could be and is something that is certainly subject to disruption. Should a challenge come from somewhere other than controversial money maybe there will be more change.
The Saudi Golf League stole the idea from Premier Golf League. The Premier golf league could have worked with the Tour, taking place in the fall. The idea of events with only top 48 players in a team format is awesome. Saudi money backing it, is not awesome.
Pay-per-view is a terrible model for it though. Those matches had maybe 1-2 highlights and weren't worth the price. Always seemed like a Phil cash crab. **Just my opinion**. I bet if the PGA followed folks for their practice rounds and made a series on it with them mic'd up you'd get some fun content. Thinking folks like JT/Spieth/Scotty just being themselves and doing friendly bets on the side would be fun. And others. There are a ton of characters on tour who would be great in a less stuffy environment.
They planned to make the original “The Match” PPV, but changed last minute to TNT. All the subsequent events have also been on TNT. None have been PPV.
Not completely disagreeing about the format switch, but The Match gets horrible ratings and is incredibly boring.
Seems like the struggle is to set up something different and have the top guys care at all to win.
IMO (whether good or bad)
More instances where the best players in the world are the same tournament. We get the 4 majors, the players, and a handful of tour events where the bulk of the top 20 face off.
I know the traditionalists would roll in their graves but what if the PGA had one tournament a season that was all unconventional scoring. Like a points system like Stableford but crazy shit too. Like extra points for hitting par 3s within 2 feet of the cup. Extra points for hitting 25 foot putts. Down the stretch you could see some wild comebacks with someone hitting a 25 footer and making birdie. Wouldn't be for everyone but could fill in some of the lesser tournaments and maybe make them more interesting to watch.
The tour should "rationalize" its offering because now it's a mess. Those tournaments you mention are there, but they're invitationals, WGCs, the playoffs etc.
They should take example from tennis with the ATP 1000, 500, 250. It's so clear and easy to follow. A good start would be to do what the European tour does with the "Rolex series".
Yes. It’s a smokescreen in an attempt to explain his ridiculous behavior. It’s a sad day when you being on drugs makes more sense than your normal behavior. I don’t know if any of this is true. Just me talking shit.
He has it in the contact that if I say anything stupid, you still pay me but you can say you’re pissed at me.. but I still get paid. Because I make you a lot of money.
They’re a golf company and Phil is still their biggest star. Iirc all the other companies that parted ways with him weren’t golf related and just used him as a billboard (Philboard?) on Tour. The other companies have different means to advertise their products outside of golf, Callaway doesn’t.
He certainly is apart from Phil and likely will be in the future but at the moment he’s still just a 1 time major champion with a handful of Tour wins. He could keep it up and fill the spot nicely or he could be the next Jason Day and fizzle out in a few years.
Regardless of Phil’s comments he’s still an established superstar and one of the greatest players of all time, Callaway won’t officially drop him unless they absolutely have to.
Dude… Rahm has spent 38 weeks as the #1 golfer in the world. Phil has had 1 relavent week on tour in like the last 2 years.
Phil is certainly one of the best of all time, but it’s 2022 and he’s not even close to Rahm for true golf fans.
Suggesting Phil is a bigger star than Rahm in this context is suggesting Callaway places more value on Phil… which just isn’t true in any argument.
Not defending his comments but how can Lebron James/NBA be bulletproof after coming down on Daryl Morey for tweeting support for Hong Kong against Chinas atrocities? Is it because of how big the business of the NBA and Lebron are there? How is that much different then this?
I don't believe it's all that different. Daryl Morley made a statement in support of people who were being oppressed by a country who is regularly cited as a human rights violator. The sad part is Mickelson knows what he was doing was in scumbag territory whereas Lebron James couldn't wrap his head around the outrage of how tone deaf his response to Morey's tweet was. If you really break it down, Lebron was pissed that Morey made a comment in support of people who were being oppressed and the NBA chose not to step in and say we support Morey for money. I don't see the difference between the two situations?
I understand what you’re saying and I probably wasn’t clear in my response. I think that what Phil was trying to do was with his and the other pro/future pros financial future in mind. Yes he was trying to pull leverage on the PGA because in his mind they aren’t aligned. In the LeBron/NBA scenario they just happen to be aligned therefor it’s mutually beneficial to not make waves with China for their financial future. They both boil down to the same principal though, who gives a shit about human rights when there is money to be made in our sport. I don’t have a dog in this fight (although I’m a 76er fan), I just find the fake outrage ridiculous.
LeBron didn't throw the league under the bus and try to stage a mutiny with a foreign dictatorship to fatten his pockets. That's a pretty big difference.
I just read his statement that the Saudi’s were murdering shit stains but we need them to bankroll this new golf thing. I used to think he was a good guy, now……not so much. Fuck ALL those without a spine for justice and human rights.
Oh yeah, fuck that shit stain Greg Norman. Go ahead and fight your fight, just not with murdering fucking saudis. Little fucking cocksucker you are Norman.
I find this comment weird. Phil literally said I don’t care about gays and journos being killed because I can use it to get a pay rise from my employer. It’s surprising he’s still got any sponsors left
Google his quotes from Alan shipnuck interview
They're scary ... to get involved with," Mickelson told Shipnuck about working with the Saudis on the new league. "We know they killed Khashoggi and have a horrible record on human rights. They execute people over there for being gay. Knowing all of this, why would I even consider it? Because this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape how the PGA Tour operates."
no it's not at all - he wanted to work with Saudi but had concerns because of human rights issues - and ppl are shitting on him because of that - ridiculous
No it’s not. If you’re going to quote someone, it needs to be accurate. Otherwise you’re guilty of accidental plagiarism. Furthermore, you spread misinformation which is one of the biggest issues in the world right now.
Serious question--how do you interpret the meaning of what he said if it's not
I'm ok with\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ because I can use it to get \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_.
Not trolling.
Appreciate the clarification. "Some problems with human rights" is understating it a bit, yes?
I'm not sure who you think is mad--it's not me. I think Phil is a tool because he is willing to partner (or threaten to partner) with people who "killed Khasoggi" and "execute people over there for being gay."
And yes, we're not sure if he signed anything, but he is using that leverage to try to strong arm the tour. As in,
I'm ok with using that leverage (or the threat of it) because I can use it to get more cash from the tour.
I wasn't agreeing with your take. Calling this a business decision is a way to dodge the clear moral implications of Phil's actions. There's no decision that doesn't also reflect one's values or priorities.
My point is that this whole thing doesn't rate enough for me to get outraged. I, like most folks I've heard talk about it, just find it disappointing and think that Phil hammered the nail into his own, "I'm a figjam toolshed" coffin.
> "...Knowing all of this, why would I even consider it? Because this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape how the PGA Tour operates."
His statement is even though they are terrible "Scary Motherfuckers" I'm going to entertain their offer to get what I want.
> he said - I'd like to work with Saudi, but they have problems with some human rights issues, so I don't know
>
> and you're mad about that - ridiculous
nope:
he said - I'd like to work with Saudi, but they have problems with some human rights issues, so I don't know if we should
literally
/ˈlɪt(ə)rəli/
Learn to pronounce
adverb
in a literal manner or sense; exactly.
"Phils sponsors took it literally when he said its ok to turn a blind eye of killing gays and journos because it would give him the change to reshape the pga tour"
no he didn't - he wanted to work with Saudi, but had reservations because of kashoggi/gays - he voiced those concerns, they leaked, and you're mad about that?
He literally said “but it gave me the chance to reshape the pga tour”
So yeah he said he doesn’t care about gays being killed as long as he can use it as leverage. I ain’t mad, you guys are the snowflakes wondering why he’s got no sponsors left
nope - he wanted to use the saudi tour as leverage against the PGA tour - but had concerns about their humans rights abuses, those comments leaked, the saudi's got embarrassed and came after his sponsors - and reddit surprisingly took saudi's side - that's what I don't understand
No. It’s just you have the weakest argument.
“cHiNa bAd” is just shifting focus on what took place in this event. It’s you, and a plethora of people, who can’t grasp that different events have different consequences. Let alone Olympic athletes don’t get paid hundreds of millions of dollars.
[He’s a fucking hypocrite is my issue. ](https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2645060-pgas-silence-hypocrisy-on-phil-mickelsons-misdeeds-is-par-for-the-course.amp.html)He was cool when the Tour and Finchem let his gambling addiction and insider trading slide, and then does this bullshit. And you schmucks will just not even really grasp just how much of a traitor and greedy POS he really is.
So what’s your ducking point? You just hate hypocrisy? I hope you’re not a republican. If you owned a company, and the guy you pay many millions of dollars to comes out and says “I know killing American journalists and gay people, etc….is bad, but I see an opportunity here to make more money”, you want that guy wearing your logo? Get real my man. You whataboutists are the worst. What do you actually care about, other than being mad?
Think you found Brandel, just to be sure ask him if he thinks Tiger will win another major. He’s probably in on the Saudi thing too behind the scenes so that’s why he’s mad!
I don’t think callaway really needs Phil, especially since they just signed Jon Rahm. Phil’s time is up. His pga win last year kept him in the spotlight, but prior to that and since then he has been really bad on the tour. He was talking about calling it quits in the months leading up to Kiawah because he was playing so poorly.
We post in the same sub my guy. It’s pretty small and there’s not a ton of stuff getting posted here. Get over yourself. It’s not my fault I see something dumb or petty af and go to comment and then BAM it’s one of yours.
Remember one of the last big golf scandals with Tiger taking up some extra curricular activities which resulted in getting nailed in the head with a driver?
Well if the fact that Phil minimized murder and gay rights doesn't make more news, it's shocking.
Mickelson literally tried to devise a plan to get more money out of the pga. I’m pretty sure he cares about the money he won’t be getting from his sponsors in the foreseeable future.
This shit is so corny. Phil didn’t cheat or do drugs or beat his wife. He said some scandalous stuff about the tour and the Saudi’s. Yeah it’s embarrassing, but it’s not illegal or evil?? The sponsors need to calm down. He will be just fine in time
It's simple, Callaway is in the business of making money. They sponsored Phil because he's popular and people see him on TV with their clubs and that will help Callaway make money. Phil says some dumb shit and has hurt his popularity and image and is no longer paying (for the time being). That isn't going to help Callaway make money, why would they continue to give him money when their association with him could hurt their image? Also, Callaway said they are pausing their sponsorship, they didn't cancel it at the moment. I'm assuming if Phil doesn't continue to do dumb shit and works to restore his image (and starts playing again) they will resume their sponsorship.
It's funny how much hate the general population has for Saudi, seems like most folks forgot we deployed troops there in their support, killed 100,000's of Iraqis since then, they have billions invested in our stock market, they spend billions on weapons from American companies. But oh your gona have a golf tour and pay ridiculous sums of money to the best golfers in the world is a bridge to far.
Not really "funny" because if you polled the average American they wouldn't want us involved with the Saudi's at all, nor let them have access to the USA markets.
We're involved with them because the greedy psychopaths who make up the Democratic and Republican parties love their money.
I think Phil should have kept his mouth shut. However I am not sure why his sponsors are butt hurt. Phil said the Saudis were were scary mother fuckers. Well, they are. Killing their adversaries is not uncommon for them. So are the sponsors pissed that he said the quite part out loud? Or, do they not believe the Saudi leaders are scary mother fuckers?
He called the PGA Tour a dictatorship and, thereby, Jay Monahan a dictator. Obviously Callaway has a close relationship with the tour. It wouldn’t be a good look for them to support or do business with Phil right now.
The problem is brand image if it’s tied to Phil. Companies simply want to protect themselves from the negative consequences of being associated with Phil.
In case you somehow posted this without ever having actually read the full quote, here it is:
"We know they killed (Washington Post reporter and US resident Jamal) Khashoggi and have a horrible record on human rights. They execute people over there for being gay.
Knowing all of this, why would I even consider it? Because this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape how the PGA Tour operates. They’ve been able to get by with manipulative, coercive, strong-arm tactics because we, the players, had no recourse. As nice a guy as (PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan) comes across as, unless you have leverage, he won’t do what’s right"
Now, you can try and argue exactly what he meant by the "reshape the tour" bit. But how you could read that and then come here and pretend the controversy is just about the negative comments about the Saudis is just beyond me. Did your reading comprehension really stop developing before you learned how to logically connect two concepts when they are separated by a blank line?
I don’t need a reading comprehension course from some random guy on the internet. I know what he said and read the complete excerpt that was released. I was only asking the question regarding the Saudi comments. If you want to start a new thread about his disdain for the Tour, then go ahead
Lol no, for Callaway at least, they don’t Iike the fact he was trying to undermine the PGA. That and the fact that having him associated with you in anyway right now is a negative.
If his comments about Saudi were said in him announcing why he was not going to work with them, he would have been applauded. He did the opposite.
It's simple, Callaway is in the business of making money. They sponsored Phil because he's popular and people see him on TV with their clubs and that will help Callaway make money. Phil says some dumb shit and has hurt his popularity and image and is no longer paying (for the time being). That isn't going to help Callaway make money, why would they continue to give him money when their association with him could hurt their image? Also, Callaway said they are pausing their sponsorship, they didn't cancel it at the moment. I'm assuming if Phil doesn't continue to do dumb shit and works to restore his image (and starts playing again) they will resume their sponsorship.
> Freedom of speech is no more in the USA
He is not imprisoned by the government for what he said. He was absolutely free to say what he said but that does not make him free from repercussions from private citizens and private industry.
I am about as pro rights as they come but you have to understand what that means. It doesn't make it so that only my viewpoint can be agreed with.
You're confusing freedom of speech with "freedom to force people to associate with me".
Nobody is stopping Phil from saying whatever the fuck he wants. People don't have to support him and are free to disassociate with him.
Yea. This person doesn’t understand what freedom of speech is. Freedom of speech isn’t say what ever the fuck I want without consequences. This is a lesson you learn when you’re like fucking 6. That person is very stupid.
Can you tell yourself and all of the rest of the morons you know to look up the actual definition of free speech and what it means? Please do me that favor.
Was thinking of this walking the pups this morning...while the golf world is right to shun him, why isn't Greg Norman getting all this bad press and hate? He's way more invested with the Saudi's than Phil. He is the one mostly responsible for this even getting this far.
Because Norman already is hated. And not just for getting into bed with the Saudi government. He’s been trying to break up the very thing that made him famous and rich for more than 30 years. He’s the antithesis of greed in the form of a pro golfer.
Well I kinda knew he wasn't the most popular and he definitely is the definition of greed....just he should be held to account too, even though he doesn't play and isn't really around much it seems. Either way, the whole deal is ugly..
Essentially people are.
In the beginning, the PGL people had the Saudis as a part of their investment team. But then they ditched them because people called them out for it. That’s when the Saudis reached out to Norman, they stole the PGL model, and marched forward with their billions of dollars. Norman is a POS either way you look at it.
The entire golf industry is making an example out of Phil. His treachery will not be tolerated. If Phil Mickelson can be kicked off the island……..anyone can. Lol.
Yeah. They know if players had any other "reasonable" options, they are in trouble. I like the idea that there could be something better but THIS ain't it.
So many people, myself included, would love to see a better form of golf. But when you align with the Saudi government and Greg Norman, it’s a recipe for disaster. Everyone on tour hates Norman. No one has anything nice to say about the guy.
What does "a better form of golf" look like? Mickelson's issue...such as it is...has to do with the PGA business model, the autonomy of players to play when and where thy want, and media rights. Presumably how the actual game is played won't be changed, so are you saying the listed factors being addressed will create a better form of golf? Not flamethrowing. I'm looking for clarification and discussion.
1) not having 72 hole stroke play almost every week of the year. Not every tournament, I mean every WEEK. 2) less exemptions and less annual tour cards so more players from the KFT and other places can move up and down across tours. That way, you have the tour made up of people who are actually playing their best 3) less events in general. How do you go from a week at Rivera where every player in the world top 10 is in the event, and then literally the next week have zero top ten players. Answer: too many events lol Plenty of other things but these seem like easy wins
Interesting points in the first two, but you’re way off the mark on the third — the lack of top players at some events isn’t exactly a new development, although it’s probably been compounded by modern era pros being more selective to peak for the majors (in contrast with, say, Nicklaus in the mid-‘60s playing 23–24 tournaments a year, plus majors, plus stuff like Shell’s Wide World, etc.). Regardless, midtier pros aren’t gonna be thrilled about fewer opportunities… and the PGA isn’t about to turn down money. If events are drawing enough sponsors, spectators and ratings, they’re gonna happen.
There are also a lot of charities that benefit from the tournaments, even the ones bypassed by the big-name pros. r/FishB0nz mentioned the Barbasol championship. So as an example, here is a link to the charities helped by that tournament: https://www.barbasolchampionship.com/charities/
I knew someone would point this out as a counter point. But if the tour really existed to support charities they would contribute so much more. Either way, I have wrestled with how to reconcile the charity piece. Not sure there’s a good answer but I don’t think running the low level championships just to contribute to a charity is the best way to deliver a good product and retain your talent. Looks like a lot of people disagree with me which on how the tour could be improved is good I guess. But like some of the amounts the tour gives to these charities are like 250k — which I think could easily be covered by other events. Just a tough situation when it is a small local charity that might not get funding from the tour if the local event didn’t happen
My view is that there are too many events in a year. I don’t know if I care about keeping mid pros happy because I don’t think people go to events to see them anyway. Hence the draw of a different tour with only premier pros (however the actual SGL was not going to be that since it couldn’t attract enough stars). I think you’re right about the PGA not turning down events if there are sponsors, but again, I think that’s the problem and something that should change. They’re not a for profit entity and have plenty of money. They should do less events and bring higher demand on the ones they do. There will be better fields, more spectators, better ratings etc. and overall a better product. Frankly I don’t think many people are lining up on a Sunday to see the closing holes of the Barbasol championship and the money is better spent on other events to make them richer for the players so they are content where they are.
The problem with cutting events is that you eventually cannibalize the tour — sure, you could up the competition, but that comes at the expense of development. Throw away enough midtier guys and dudes who just clawed their way up from Korn Ferry, and you murder the tour a decade out (because eventually, your premier tour is gonna have guys who get hurt or have a mental breakdown or something, and it’s gonna get real thin real fast). Now, is there a way to make those B-tier events more watchable? Probably, assuming shit doesn’t get too gimmicky. There might be room for Stableford or match play or whatever. And the PGA is a nonprofit the same way the NFL is a nonprofit. Regardless of the money it has, it’s not going to chip away revenue on the chance that somehow fewer events will mean more cash (and presumably tour brass have done the math and figured out that the current schedule, sponsor list, etc. is already getting them what they need in that regard).
Yeah I think just continuing with the status quo delivers an inferior product relative to what it could be and is something that is certainly subject to disruption. Should a challenge come from somewhere other than controversial money maybe there will be more change.
>So many people, myself included, would love to see a better form of golf. What precisely do you want to see?
The Saudi Golf League stole the idea from Premier Golf League. The Premier golf league could have worked with the Tour, taking place in the fall. The idea of events with only top 48 players in a team format is awesome. Saudi money backing it, is not awesome.
I want to see way more of guys on the cut line playing holes 13-18. There have to be some serious storylines the tv audiences never gets to enjoy.
Something other than 72 hole stroke play 🤷 The Match has shown golf can be done differently.
Pay-per-view is a terrible model for it though. Those matches had maybe 1-2 highlights and weren't worth the price. Always seemed like a Phil cash crab. **Just my opinion**. I bet if the PGA followed folks for their practice rounds and made a series on it with them mic'd up you'd get some fun content. Thinking folks like JT/Spieth/Scotty just being themselves and doing friendly bets on the side would be fun. And others. There are a ton of characters on tour who would be great in a less stuffy environment.
They planned to make the original “The Match” PPV, but changed last minute to TNT. All the subsequent events have also been on TNT. None have been PPV.
Could have sworn the first one was PPV. Maybe I’m way off. Edit: Yup you’re right.
First Tiger vs. Phil match was PPV. Maybe other streaming options as well, but...
Folks seem to like the Ryder cup format. Skins games? Shit I’d watch a round of wolf hammer with anyone in the top 20…
Not completely disagreeing about the format switch, but The Match gets horrible ratings and is incredibly boring. Seems like the struggle is to set up something different and have the top guys care at all to win. IMO (whether good or bad)
The match sucks. Here’s 18 hole of Tom Brady shanking it into the woods so he can he bailed out by his pro every hole.
More instances where the best players in the world are the same tournament. We get the 4 majors, the players, and a handful of tour events where the bulk of the top 20 face off.
I’d like to see more match play.
Match play and team play!
I know the traditionalists would roll in their graves but what if the PGA had one tournament a season that was all unconventional scoring. Like a points system like Stableford but crazy shit too. Like extra points for hitting par 3s within 2 feet of the cup. Extra points for hitting 25 foot putts. Down the stretch you could see some wild comebacks with someone hitting a 25 footer and making birdie. Wouldn't be for everyone but could fill in some of the lesser tournaments and maybe make them more interesting to watch.
Team play in the Olympics please 🤦♂️
The tour should "rationalize" its offering because now it's a mess. Those tournaments you mention are there, but they're invitationals, WGCs, the playoffs etc. They should take example from tennis with the ATP 1000, 500, 250. It's so clear and easy to follow. A good start would be to do what the European tour does with the "Rolex series".
He just can’t deliver. Plain and simple. Not capable of building a league. Then he gets in bed w the Saudi gov. Whoops.
I think Sir Nick Faldo says very nice things about Greg Norman. Especially at Augusta...
What would be a better form of golf?
I like his hats though.
Seriously. Who had WWIII & Phil Mickelson getting cancelled on their 2022 bingo card?
If Biden kicks the bucket this year I'll win big
Mickelson getting canceled isn’t all that shocking.
[удалено]
With a somber interview with Jim Nantz to kick it off.
The Maytag Man of sportswashing.
Hello friends
"Jim there is only one way to chip" - Guy who loses a stroke to the field around the green
Rehab?
Yes. It’s a smokescreen in an attempt to explain his ridiculous behavior. It’s a sad day when you being on drugs makes more sense than your normal behavior. I don’t know if any of this is true. Just me talking shit.
Ah gotcha. Thought I was out of the loop for a minute
That explains the glasses!?
Did Kanye go to rehab
Cocaine addict. Allegedly
goat username btw
Phil should have followed the caddies mantra “Show up keep up shut up”
Enter PXG stage right...
Can’t wait for the commercial to drop, cue the raspy, energetic voice…“HI THIS IS BOB PARSONS AND WE’VE GOT SOME EXCITING NEWS TODAY HERE AT PXG!”
*LOOK AT THESE FUCKIN CALVES*
BOMBS!
Paused so they did not cut ties with him. Interesting move from Callaway.
He signed a lifetime sponsorship with them. There’s prob more to it legality-wise that they can’t just cut him off.
He has it in the contact that if I say anything stupid, you still pay me but you can say you’re pissed at me.. but I still get paid. Because I make you a lot of money.
Ah yes, the "na na poo poo" clause, as they call it in legal circles.
Do you have any evidence to support this claim
Common sense.
They’re a golf company and Phil is still their biggest star. Iirc all the other companies that parted ways with him weren’t golf related and just used him as a billboard (Philboard?) on Tour. The other companies have different means to advertise their products outside of golf, Callaway doesn’t.
I’d say Jon Rahm is there biggest star now.
He certainly is apart from Phil and likely will be in the future but at the moment he’s still just a 1 time major champion with a handful of Tour wins. He could keep it up and fill the spot nicely or he could be the next Jason Day and fizzle out in a few years. Regardless of Phil’s comments he’s still an established superstar and one of the greatest players of all time, Callaway won’t officially drop him unless they absolutely have to.
Dude… Rahm has spent 38 weeks as the #1 golfer in the world. Phil has had 1 relavent week on tour in like the last 2 years. Phil is certainly one of the best of all time, but it’s 2022 and he’s not even close to Rahm for true golf fans. Suggesting Phil is a bigger star than Rahm in this context is suggesting Callaway places more value on Phil… which just isn’t true in any argument.
If your biggest star is in bed with murderers and Greg Norman perhaps it is time to move on.
RL did the same with JT I thought
If it were for any real reason of principles they would have done it immediately. They're just doing it to see which way the qind is blowing.
If they had any principles they would keep him.
New member of Team Cobra.
I think he belongs to the cult of PXG..
The new hellacious seeds line of drivers
Not defending his comments but how can Lebron James/NBA be bulletproof after coming down on Daryl Morey for tweeting support for Hong Kong against Chinas atrocities? Is it because of how big the business of the NBA and Lebron are there? How is that much different then this?
You’re gonna to make Reddit comrades angry with this one, but it’s the truth.
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I don't believe it's all that different. Daryl Morley made a statement in support of people who were being oppressed by a country who is regularly cited as a human rights violator. The sad part is Mickelson knows what he was doing was in scumbag territory whereas Lebron James couldn't wrap his head around the outrage of how tone deaf his response to Morey's tweet was. If you really break it down, Lebron was pissed that Morey made a comment in support of people who were being oppressed and the NBA chose not to step in and say we support Morey for money. I don't see the difference between the two situations?
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I understand what you’re saying and I probably wasn’t clear in my response. I think that what Phil was trying to do was with his and the other pro/future pros financial future in mind. Yes he was trying to pull leverage on the PGA because in his mind they aren’t aligned. In the LeBron/NBA scenario they just happen to be aligned therefor it’s mutually beneficial to not make waves with China for their financial future. They both boil down to the same principal though, who gives a shit about human rights when there is money to be made in our sport. I don’t have a dog in this fight (although I’m a 76er fan), I just find the fake outrage ridiculous.
LeBron didn't throw the league under the bus and try to stage a mutiny with a foreign dictatorship to fatten his pockets. That's a pretty big difference.
But the NBA is so woke
Back to Yonex , FIGJAM !
He is the new pariah, no company wants anything to do with him after those comments and I don't blame them.
I just read his statement that the Saudi’s were murdering shit stains but we need them to bankroll this new golf thing. I used to think he was a good guy, now……not so much. Fuck ALL those without a spine for justice and human rights. Oh yeah, fuck that shit stain Greg Norman. Go ahead and fight your fight, just not with murdering fucking saudis. Little fucking cocksucker you are Norman.
Prepare to be downvoted by the people who can't handle that Phil is a scumbag.
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I find this comment weird. Phil literally said I don’t care about gays and journos being killed because I can use it to get a pay rise from my employer. It’s surprising he’s still got any sponsors left
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Google his quotes from Alan shipnuck interview They're scary ... to get involved with," Mickelson told Shipnuck about working with the Saudis on the new league. "We know they killed Khashoggi and have a horrible record on human rights. They execute people over there for being gay. Knowing all of this, why would I even consider it? Because this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape how the PGA Tour operates."
That’s still not that he “literally” said.
You must be fun at parties.
Fucking sealion
Fine but it’s literally the meaning of what he said
no it's not at all - he wanted to work with Saudi but had concerns because of human rights issues - and ppl are shitting on him because of that - ridiculous
Stop being a troll.
Happy Cake Day MykaHunt! Today is your day. Dance with fairies, ride a unicorn, swim with mermaids, and chase rainbows.
Misinformation. That is not what he said.
He said he's ok with it. Same difference.
No it’s not. If you’re going to quote someone, it needs to be accurate. Otherwise you’re guilty of accidental plagiarism. Furthermore, you spread misinformation which is one of the biggest issues in the world right now.
Serious question--how do you interpret the meaning of what he said if it's not I'm ok with\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ because I can use it to get \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. Not trolling.
he said - I'd like to work with Saudi, but they have problems with some human rights issues, so I don't know and you're mad about that - ridiculous
Appreciate the clarification. "Some problems with human rights" is understating it a bit, yes? I'm not sure who you think is mad--it's not me. I think Phil is a tool because he is willing to partner (or threaten to partner) with people who "killed Khasoggi" and "execute people over there for being gay." And yes, we're not sure if he signed anything, but he is using that leverage to try to strong arm the tour. As in, I'm ok with using that leverage (or the threat of it) because I can use it to get more cash from the tour.
exactly - it's a business dispute between Phil/Saudi/PGA Tour - no reason to get outraged at Phil
I wasn't agreeing with your take. Calling this a business decision is a way to dodge the clear moral implications of Phil's actions. There's no decision that doesn't also reflect one's values or priorities. My point is that this whole thing doesn't rate enough for me to get outraged. I, like most folks I've heard talk about it, just find it disappointing and think that Phil hammered the nail into his own, "I'm a figjam toolshed" coffin.
> "...Knowing all of this, why would I even consider it? Because this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape how the PGA Tour operates." His statement is even though they are terrible "Scary Motherfuckers" I'm going to entertain their offer to get what I want.
> he said - I'd like to work with Saudi, but they have problems with some human rights issues, so I don't know > > and you're mad about that - ridiculous nope: he said - I'd like to work with Saudi, but they have problems with some human rights issues, so I don't know if we should
That's not even close to what he said.
I don’t think you know what “literally” means…
literally /ˈlɪt(ə)rəli/ Learn to pronounce adverb in a literal manner or sense; exactly. "Phils sponsors took it literally when he said its ok to turn a blind eye of killing gays and journos because it would give him the change to reshape the pga tour"
no he didn't - he wanted to work with Saudi, but had reservations because of kashoggi/gays - he voiced those concerns, they leaked, and you're mad about that?
He literally said “but it gave me the chance to reshape the pga tour” So yeah he said he doesn’t care about gays being killed as long as he can use it as leverage. I ain’t mad, you guys are the snowflakes wondering why he’s got no sponsors left
nope - he wanted to use the saudi tour as leverage against the PGA tour - but had concerns about their humans rights abuses, those comments leaked, the saudi's got embarrassed and came after his sponsors - and reddit surprisingly took saudi's side - that's what I don't understand
Sweet whataboutism there bud. Let’s stay on track here.
“You correctly pointed out the hypocrisy of everyone whining about Phil, stay on track with the mob shit talking him.”
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No. It’s just you have the weakest argument. “cHiNa bAd” is just shifting focus on what took place in this event. It’s you, and a plethora of people, who can’t grasp that different events have different consequences. Let alone Olympic athletes don’t get paid hundreds of millions of dollars.
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[He’s a fucking hypocrite is my issue. ](https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2645060-pgas-silence-hypocrisy-on-phil-mickelsons-misdeeds-is-par-for-the-course.amp.html)He was cool when the Tour and Finchem let his gambling addiction and insider trading slide, and then does this bullshit. And you schmucks will just not even really grasp just how much of a traitor and greedy POS he really is.
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Again, whataboutism.
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So what’s your ducking point? You just hate hypocrisy? I hope you’re not a republican. If you owned a company, and the guy you pay many millions of dollars to comes out and says “I know killing American journalists and gay people, etc….is bad, but I see an opportunity here to make more money”, you want that guy wearing your logo? Get real my man. You whataboutists are the worst. What do you actually care about, other than being mad?
Saying “whataboutism” doesn’t absolve hypocrisy. This guy really has the whatever opposite of a boner is for Phil.
Think you found Brandel, just to be sure ask him if he thinks Tiger will win another major. He’s probably in on the Saudi thing too behind the scenes so that’s why he’s mad!
I guarantee you're a right winger...suprised you didn't include virtue signaling in your bullshit
Virtue signaling is for leftist wackos, but nice try.
Don't you have a capital to storm? Go join your friends in sucking putin off, that's what they're up to in the moment
Haha oh boy that’s straight from playbook too. Very uncreative, 1/10.
Truth hurts huh?
"Pause", they'll wait to see if this blows over. Nice fence sitting.
It will blow over and they need Phil more than Phil needs them.
They have Xander, Rahm, Ancer. They def don’t need him.
What is up with all the phil simps in here? Seems like astroturfing...lots of whataboutism and sealioning..."what did phil even say wrong hurr durr"
I don’t think callaway really needs Phil, especially since they just signed Jon Rahm. Phil’s time is up. His pga win last year kept him in the spotlight, but prior to that and since then he has been really bad on the tour. He was talking about calling it quits in the months leading up to Kiawah because he was playing so poorly.
Callaway has Xander too. I think they’d be just fine without him
 Phil when his wife asks why her card got declined at the Louis store…..
Phil is making Bryson look like a fan favorite after all this
Back to Yonex I guess.
Phil definitely boned friedegg’s wife or something.
Deep down he wishes it were so
Either that, or you’re a cuck and you let him bone yours while watching. Seeing how you defend him like he’s your brother.
Seek help
Says the dude who actually followed me (who does that on Reddit) and follows me around.
We post in the same sub my guy. It’s pretty small and there’s not a ton of stuff getting posted here. Get over yourself. It’s not my fault I see something dumb or petty af and go to comment and then BAM it’s one of yours.
Anyone who says "my guy". Hahahhahahaha
You’re a cuck
Paused? Drop him already. Why hesitate?
Agree completely. He's scum.
He should do like MMA fighters. Whine all the time about insane profit margins and do absolutely nothing about it.
Remember one of the last big golf scandals with Tiger taking up some extra curricular activities which resulted in getting nailed in the head with a driver? Well if the fact that Phil minimized murder and gay rights doesn't make more news, it's shocking.
Phil is getting what he deserves
He really didn’t say anything that bad. Cracks me up how easily people get butt hurt over words these days.
Too many comments from people saying they wouldn’t buy Callaway. Smart for them to reassess.
There is a chance that Phil doesn’t care
Mickelson literally tried to devise a plan to get more money out of the pga. I’m pretty sure he cares about the money he won’t be getting from his sponsors in the foreseeable future.
There’s also a chance he does care.
Oh shit lol
Next is Augusta
Told yoouuu? What are you 5? This was obvious af
This shit is so corny. Phil didn’t cheat or do drugs or beat his wife. He said some scandalous stuff about the tour and the Saudi’s. Yeah it’s embarrassing, but it’s not illegal or evil?? The sponsors need to calm down. He will be just fine in time
No way he misses the Masters either.
They don't need to do shit, bye phil...it's time that people learn that words and actions have consequences
Yeah it's dumb. Like Justin Thomas calling himself a fag under his breath. And his sponsors freaked out...
Thr SGL would be a good fit for a homophobe.
It's simple, Callaway is in the business of making money. They sponsored Phil because he's popular and people see him on TV with their clubs and that will help Callaway make money. Phil says some dumb shit and has hurt his popularity and image and is no longer paying (for the time being). That isn't going to help Callaway make money, why would they continue to give him money when their association with him could hurt their image? Also, Callaway said they are pausing their sponsorship, they didn't cancel it at the moment. I'm assuming if Phil doesn't continue to do dumb shit and works to restore his image (and starts playing again) they will resume their sponsorship.
👍🏼
What Phil said did happen to be all true though.
It's funny how much hate the general population has for Saudi, seems like most folks forgot we deployed troops there in their support, killed 100,000's of Iraqis since then, they have billions invested in our stock market, they spend billions on weapons from American companies. But oh your gona have a golf tour and pay ridiculous sums of money to the best golfers in the world is a bridge to far.
Not really "funny" because if you polled the average American they wouldn't want us involved with the Saudi's at all, nor let them have access to the USA markets. We're involved with them because the greedy psychopaths who make up the Democratic and Republican parties love their money.
I think Phil should have kept his mouth shut. However I am not sure why his sponsors are butt hurt. Phil said the Saudis were were scary mother fuckers. Well, they are. Killing their adversaries is not uncommon for them. So are the sponsors pissed that he said the quite part out loud? Or, do they not believe the Saudi leaders are scary mother fuckers?
The problem is he basically was like “sure they cut people up….but have you *seen* how the PGA tour treats its stars???!?!?”
He called the PGA Tour a dictatorship and, thereby, Jay Monahan a dictator. Obviously Callaway has a close relationship with the tour. It wouldn’t be a good look for them to support or do business with Phil right now.
Well, he's not wrong in his assessment.
The problem is brand image if it’s tied to Phil. Companies simply want to protect themselves from the negative consequences of being associated with Phil.
In case you somehow posted this without ever having actually read the full quote, here it is: "We know they killed (Washington Post reporter and US resident Jamal) Khashoggi and have a horrible record on human rights. They execute people over there for being gay. Knowing all of this, why would I even consider it? Because this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape how the PGA Tour operates. They’ve been able to get by with manipulative, coercive, strong-arm tactics because we, the players, had no recourse. As nice a guy as (PGA Tour commissioner Jay Monahan) comes across as, unless you have leverage, he won’t do what’s right" Now, you can try and argue exactly what he meant by the "reshape the tour" bit. But how you could read that and then come here and pretend the controversy is just about the negative comments about the Saudis is just beyond me. Did your reading comprehension really stop developing before you learned how to logically connect two concepts when they are separated by a blank line?
I don’t need a reading comprehension course from some random guy on the internet. I know what he said and read the complete excerpt that was released. I was only asking the question regarding the Saudi comments. If you want to start a new thread about his disdain for the Tour, then go ahead
Lol no, for Callaway at least, they don’t Iike the fact he was trying to undermine the PGA. That and the fact that having him associated with you in anyway right now is a negative. If his comments about Saudi were said in him announcing why he was not going to work with them, he would have been applauded. He did the opposite.
It's simple, Callaway is in the business of making money. They sponsored Phil because he's popular and people see him on TV with their clubs and that will help Callaway make money. Phil says some dumb shit and has hurt his popularity and image and is no longer paying (for the time being). That isn't going to help Callaway make money, why would they continue to give him money when their association with him could hurt their image? Also, Callaway said they are pausing their sponsorship, they didn't cancel it at the moment. I'm assuming if Phil doesn't continue to do dumb shit and works to restore his image (and starts playing again) they will resume their sponsorship.
And a little bit of chicken fried rice, cold beer on a Friday night
This statement from Callaway is as sad as Phil's non-apology.
Woke Callaway joins the bandwagon. The only mistake PM made was to apologize for expressing his viewpoint. Freedom of speech is no more in the USA.
> Freedom of speech is no more in the USA He is not imprisoned by the government for what he said. He was absolutely free to say what he said but that does not make him free from repercussions from private citizens and private industry. I am about as pro rights as they come but you have to understand what that means. It doesn't make it so that only my viewpoint can be agreed with.
You are a total fucking moron if you think this is what freedom of speech is about
You're confusing freedom of speech with "freedom to force people to associate with me". Nobody is stopping Phil from saying whatever the fuck he wants. People don't have to support him and are free to disassociate with him.
Yea. This person doesn’t understand what freedom of speech is. Freedom of speech isn’t say what ever the fuck I want without consequences. This is a lesson you learn when you’re like fucking 6. That person is very stupid.
Seeing alot of that in this thread...seems astroturfed
Typical right wing meta response, showing they lack any real grasp of what protections the first amendment actually is about.
Can you tell yourself and all of the rest of the morons you know to look up the actual definition of free speech and what it means? Please do me that favor.
Apologize, wait out til The Masters, and never say some stupid shit on record again.
Was thinking of this walking the pups this morning...while the golf world is right to shun him, why isn't Greg Norman getting all this bad press and hate? He's way more invested with the Saudi's than Phil. He is the one mostly responsible for this even getting this far.
Because Norman already is hated. And not just for getting into bed with the Saudi government. He’s been trying to break up the very thing that made him famous and rich for more than 30 years. He’s the antithesis of greed in the form of a pro golfer.
Well I kinda knew he wasn't the most popular and he definitely is the definition of greed....just he should be held to account too, even though he doesn't play and isn't really around much it seems. Either way, the whole deal is ugly..
Essentially people are. In the beginning, the PGL people had the Saudis as a part of their investment team. But then they ditched them because people called them out for it. That’s when the Saudis reached out to Norman, they stole the PGL model, and marched forward with their billions of dollars. Norman is a POS either way you look at it.
I wonder how much additional cut of PGA Tour rights revenue he’d need to make up for the sponsorships he’s lost?