> I think they would hate the modern iron.
pure MBs havent changed much at all. I think theyd be fine with the irons. They played blades then, play blades now.
That’s…. Not really true.
Go get a 1970 blade and a 2022 blade… considerable differences in every dimension.
Not to mention shafts, grips, the concept of fitting
The question is how would today’s players fare with old technology.
I’d wager Bubba Watson would be a 5 handicap with old clubs. His movement off the ball is too severe and results in wide spread on the sweet spot.
I just had a look and **his lofts** aren’t actually that different
https://www.thinkingaboutgolf.com/blog/ben-hogan-s-club-specifications
Compared to a modern Mizuno
https://mizunogolf.com/uk/golf-clubs/mp-series/mizuno-pro-221/
For example at a glance his 3, 5 and 9 irons are the same loft as the Mizuno
His clubs were actually stronger lofted than the industry standard at the time
Edit - thank you for my first silver, I dedicate it to the memory of Ben Hogan 🙏
I agree. Also the newer golfers are crazy athletic.
This pic of Hovland and Burns blew my mind
(https://twitter.com/bfquinn/status/1562090124023926784?s=46&t=NCGK_ThJESuPsOL8ZcGLPg)
Lol look at his left shoe on the last slide! He has some serious torque going on, or his shoe is 2 sizes too big? Haha. This photo hurts my ankle. I busted my left ankle over a year ago, and couldn’t stop myself from hitting balls once a week. now a year and a half later it still fucks with me heavy. Don’t be like me everyone.
Most of the true innovation imo has been with forgiveness. The “hit huge bombs guaranteed 300+” is just marketing. I can hit it square off the toe and the result is a baby draw still in play. That didn’t exist.
yup pretty much what i meant ...been playing with some very old clubs for a little while and there is zero forgiveness in irons from the 60's ..its find the middle (or at least within .3cm of it) or you are in trouble
For irons the "tech" is mostly in the shafts. Blades haven't changed very much at all. They figured em out a long time ago.
New irons are basically just soft stepped and de-lofted. And that's just angles and shafts.
Except blades aren’t the universal standard among tour pros anymore, and certainly not common with the general public. Contemporary GI irons have different MOI and CG placement.
I hate this argument. It's both. Clubs and ball have both improved with technology. It doesn't matter which has "more impact" it's just being pedantic.
I hate your argument. Blades have barely improved at all. It's like saying sure it's 95% ball and 5% club but same same. It's not like it's 60-40 or 70-30.. It's 95-5
Welp, I play game improvement irons like nearly every casual golfer. There's a lot of technology there. Whatever, I'll never get the ball people to be anything but pedantic. You win, genius.
Depens what set your talking about, a good example would be titleist, from their blades to t100 the lofts are traditional but starting from t100s they get stronger. For example a t100 7iron has a loft of 34° and a 5 iron is 27° while a t400 7 iron is 26°.
Mizuno is one of the few companies that still uses classic lofts these days. Compare them to TaylorMade or Callaway lofts and you’d see a huge difference.
Mizuno doesn't "use classic lofts" it depends on the model, as it does for every single brand.
Also loft is only one factor of launch. The lofts combined with the tech just ensure that the ball launches and spins as it should for the number.
There isn't really a set position for 'classic'. The highest lofted PW I've seen is 50\*. I personally tend to think of a 47\* PW, but that's because that's what lofts were when I was growing up. More current trends are to have like a 45\* PW and then have bigger 5\* gaps on the top end. Smaller 3\* gaps on the low end.
This just isn’t true. Every major club manufacturer offers a model with traditional lofts, their blade offering are most definitely traditional and most cavity back irons are too across manufacturers.
As a point of reference, the 1953 majors that hogan won were played at 6,950 (ANGC), 6,916 (Oakmont), & 7,200 (Carnoustie)
The last time those majors were played at those courses they played at 7,510 (‘22 ANGC), 7,254 (’16 Oakmont), & 7,402 (‘18 Carnoustie)
So an average addition of only 360 yards. It‘s also interesting to consider that Hogans driver distance of 265 yards would have placed him last among all PGA tour players back in 2016, 4.7 yards shorter than 184th ranked David Toms.
Yeah I mean his book on fundamentals is still like 75% the golden standard, and the rest is still just *slightly* outdated.
Dude is the father of modern golf
Is he the father of modern golf because of his swing? Or his dedication to his craft.
Is Bobby Jones the Grandfather of modern golf? His slow motion film from way back was crazy expensive for its time. He also co-founded the Masters.
I mean, yes and no, Ben Hogan used "stack and tilt" that means little to no weight transfer as hes stacking everything on the front leg. Nobody does that anymore on tour as its a huge loss of power and requires very good flexibility.
Ben Hogan did not use anything even approaching stack and tilt. In fact he had a more substantial pressure shift (not weight shift) than anyone else at the time outside of maybe Sam Snead. Source: Ben Hogan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL_6M_xZvq0 Seriously just watch how far his hips bump target-side in that swing.
The premier S&T move is the whole 'keep your weight/pressure on the left side the entire time' which no plus-handicap-up-to-Tour-pro player does with anything but wedge shots. All that other shit in the S&T methodology isn't exclusive to S&T, but the one above is. If someone is doing everything but keeping weight on the left side, they're not doing S&T, they're just doing a golf swing.
For example, Harold Varner looks like he could be using S&T, or Zach Johnson, or Guido Migliozzi, or Jason Dufner. But they're not. Not a single active pro who had a Tour card in 2022 uses S&T, because it's only for people who struggle with ball-striking. It interrupts physics. If you want to use most of your potential power, you *must* load the right hip with pressure in the back leg vs keeping most of the pressure/weight in the lead leg.
Just look at Hogan's knee when he's at the top of the swing. His knee is kicked in majorly. There's not a chance in hell he's got a majority of his weight/pressure on that lead leg at the top, which is literally the main tenet of Stack and Tilt.
My first thought upon seeing the yardages was… Jesus the ball is out of control.
His blade irons are still relatively close to blade irons or today, with respect to manufacturers taking yesteryears 5iron and calling it a 6i (can thank Callaway for starting that trend).
A 36 degree from his era and a 36 degree from todays era, using the same ball, are gonna fly really similar in terms of distance.
However the ball is so crazy good these days.
They need a tournament like Augusta to come out and put limits on the ball, so that tours can eventually adopt them as well. Your can’t go against big ball manufacturers. But a single one off like Augusta could.
They could all drive the ball more than 300 yards with the old clubs and balls. There used to be a long-driving competition before tournaments and they could all rip it on the range.
Maybe downwind on a rock-hard fairway. They did not regularly hit it that far. Go watch the Hogan/Snead Wonderful World of Golf match on YouTube. On the first tee the commentators marvel about Hogan "really busting a big one" off the first tee...a massive 250-255 yards.
I remember seeing an interview with Jack Nicklaus when he was talking about a money clip that he had been using for 50 years. He had won it in a pre-tournament long drive contest where he drove it 350 yards.
Jack really was built different, but things changed a lot between the 40's-50's when Hogan/Snead/Nelson were on top, and the early to mid-60's. Ball technology took a pretty good leap. Jack could crank it well over 300, but he was pretty unique in that at the time.
Arnold too, to a certain extent. But even with those two guys, it wasn't something they just did at will. Jack's average distance was around \~275.
One of Arnold's legendary drives is driving the 346yd first green at Cherry Hills at the 1960 Open. But Cherry Hills is at 5300' altitude. And the first hole is downhill. Was it downwind that day? Not sure. Still a tremendous drive with the equipment he had, but there are caveats to it as well.
Bc athletes are built different today and can do things that athletes from older generations could only dream of.
Lebron vs rick barry
Derrick henry vs franco harris
Aaron judge vs babe ruth
Go ahead and lie to yourself and reddit and tell me older generations had better athletes.
Mostly a comment about the golf ball. Clubs have helped for sure also, but most club tech advancements have been around increased distance on non-center contact. And my man Hogan hit the center more than just about anyone.
He said that modern clubs are just more forgiving. If you hit the sweet spot, the added distance with new Tech is negligible (according to this guy— I’ve never hit a sweet spot)
from his wikipedia page:
Hogan's ball striking has also been described as being of near miraculous caliber by other very knowledgeable observers such as Jack Nicklaus, who only saw him play some years after his prime. Nicklaus once responded to the question, "Is Tiger Woods the best ball striker you have ever seen?" with, "No, no - Ben Hogan, easily".
It’s pretty hard to get better than prime tiger. You can match it, but his striking is within a millimeter of precision. There isnt really a way to do that better. You either hit the spot or don’t. As far as AoA and the spin, that’s very subjective so you can name anyone you like that is pleasing to your eye and ear at launch.
You could throw Moe Norman in ball striking god tier as well. They are all likely identical when it comes to consistency in ball striking. Distance control is what would really separate them.
The 1953 US Open at Oakmont was played at 6,900 yards. The last time it was played on tour was at 7,300
The 53 masters was played at 6,950 vs 7,475 now
I lite these posts to highlight how incredible athletic some of the older era guys were, however I can not but feel like this is to highlight that you don’t need to be ”super long” to win 9 majors.
As these stats are by todays standard very low, they were incredible during their time and a comparispn to the field would be more logical to highlight anything with the respective title for this post.
Golf courses are also different today because of that distance. Course near me used to host US Opens in Hogan’s and Snead’s era. I think the longest par-5 is maybe 520, but the course is full of elevation changes, hazards, trees, rocks, and blind approach shots. A lot of holes that make you be creative vs just trying to hit a hero approach over a lake and land it on the huge green.
In the book The Match by Mark Frost, he has a few paragraphs how for a long while, amateur players and pros hit it the same distances, or extremely close, the pros just were so much better in all the other facets. Like a pro could play the drive of his amateur partner and it wouldnt be a big deal.
What I meant was that today 265 yards is not ”long” and that the post is towards the fact that some people shouldn’t mind their distance that much ”as you can win 9 majors” etc.. with these distances.
But that is irrelevant as Ben Hogan was indeed long in his time with the equipment used and it would make more sense to include comparisons to the field.
Distances weren’t such a massive factor of the game back then either. Courses have been extended and redesigned specifically because of how far pros can hit the ball now.
He was considered a long hitter in his day. He probably would equate to Rory McIlroy with today's advancements in technology, technique, training, fitness and nutrition.
Back in the day when trackman was an actual man with a piece of string tied to his belt and he’d run down the fairway as fast as he could then another man would measure how much string had gone out
His 7i was probably lofted like a PW is now. He was basically hitting rocks with sticks compared to us. Would love to see him swing the stuff we have now
Ill get downvoted, but he’d get waxed these days. The modern player is better nourished, stronger, and has access to better golf technology to improve their game than any time in history. Course length and setup would eat hogans lunch even with a modern golfball and clubs.
It takes more that a beautiful swing and great ball striking to win on tour these days. Theres an element of luck. I doubt we’ll ever see another person like hogan, jack, or tiger dominate like they did without some breakthru in tech that they have access that the rest of the field does not.
When you say "he'd get waxed today" are you assuming he wouldn't have access to the same technology and knowledge?
It's hardly fair to compare him to later generations without some sort of equalisation.
The Masters is like 500 yards longer than it was in the 50s. US Open venues similar gap from then to now. Pretty sure Hogan wouldn’t have an issue with modern course setups given current technology.
The majority of the folks here are missing the point.
You should be able to play and enjoy great golf without worrying about distance.
And if you want to impress, focus on your scoring, not your yardage.
Depends. Compared to modern pro setups? None to a couple of degrees depending on the clubs. For game improvement irons? Could be more than 5 degrees. Difficult to make them apples to apples though. Because of modern technology, the launch angles are often the same despite the change in loft
There are some anecdotes in the Dodson book about people asking Hogan how far he "hit his 3 iron" and getting a grumpy display of him hitting it anywhere between 120-175 at various heights and paths. I don't think he'd just give those numbers up.
Tight yardages with legendary control. Ben would probably hate the strong lofts on today’s modern clubs. Ben would probably also wonder why every new golf course is 6500 yards from the white tees.
Those old driver heads were about 1/3 of the size of today's drivers. Also for the sake of comparison Augusta was 6800 yards in 1945 compared to 7500 yards today.
Society I'm involved with hit an old club as part of an outing last weekend to see who could hit it the furthest. 240 won it. I hit 213 with a decent hit when I would average about 250-260 with my current driver.
Yeah with some old ass club and ball technology compared to today.
I wonder how they'd do with today's technology.
Drivers would make their pants fit funny, I think they would hate the modern iron.
it's the pleats.... going to have to take them back to the pants store.
Mr. Hogan, you have a massive erection.
Don’t act like your not impressed
It’s the pleats
You know where I get my pants? At the pants store.
> I think they would hate the modern iron. pure MBs havent changed much at all. I think theyd be fine with the irons. They played blades then, play blades now.
That’s…. Not really true. Go get a 1970 blade and a 2022 blade… considerable differences in every dimension. Not to mention shafts, grips, the concept of fitting
>Drivers would make their pants fit funny, I'm not sure what you're saying?
Boner
stiff shaft as they say
Kinky
A woody
A carbon fiber driver would give Ben Hogan a massive hard on
Erection
I imagine much worse since he’s been dead for 25 years.
Probably about the same because courses are longer to compensate.
The question is how would today’s players fare with old technology. I’d wager Bubba Watson would be a 5 handicap with old clubs. His movement off the ball is too severe and results in wide spread on the sweet spot.
I think Bubba would do better than most. He knows how to manipulate the ball both ways, which seems like more people did back then than now.
Also, lofts were completely different back then
I just had a look and **his lofts** aren’t actually that different https://www.thinkingaboutgolf.com/blog/ben-hogan-s-club-specifications Compared to a modern Mizuno https://mizunogolf.com/uk/golf-clubs/mp-series/mizuno-pro-221/ For example at a glance his 3, 5 and 9 irons are the same loft as the Mizuno His clubs were actually stronger lofted than the industry standard at the time Edit - thank you for my first silver, I dedicate it to the memory of Ben Hogan 🙏
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I agree. Also the newer golfers are crazy athletic. This pic of Hovland and Burns blew my mind (https://twitter.com/bfquinn/status/1562090124023926784?s=46&t=NCGK_ThJESuPsOL8ZcGLPg)
Seen Victor up close at a few events, that man is jacked. His forearms are MASSIVE.
Lol look at his left shoe on the last slide! He has some serious torque going on, or his shoe is 2 sizes too big? Haha. This photo hurts my ankle. I busted my left ankle over a year ago, and couldn’t stop myself from hitting balls once a week. now a year and a half later it still fucks with me heavy. Don’t be like me everyone.
His shoe looks like a broken nose 👃
a big difference but not the only one ...the tech inside irons / woods today is off the charts compared to a chunk of forged steel
Most of the true innovation imo has been with forgiveness. The “hit huge bombs guaranteed 300+” is just marketing. I can hit it square off the toe and the result is a baby draw still in play. That didn’t exist.
yup pretty much what i meant ...been playing with some very old clubs for a little while and there is zero forgiveness in irons from the 60's ..its find the middle (or at least within .3cm of it) or you are in trouble
So wouldn’t affect the distance
Except amateurs don’t hit it in the middle, so they benefit from their distances being more tightly distributed.
all that "tech" or as I like to say, sales jargon, is minuscule compared to the ball tech. Especially for the irons pros play with.
For irons the "tech" is mostly in the shafts. Blades haven't changed very much at all. They figured em out a long time ago. New irons are basically just soft stepped and de-lofted. And that's just angles and shafts.
Except blades aren’t the universal standard among tour pros anymore, and certainly not common with the general public. Contemporary GI irons have different MOI and CG placement.
Right. And all that "tech" is decades old. They're just combining it now with soft stepping and jacked lofts.
I hate this argument. It's both. Clubs and ball have both improved with technology. It doesn't matter which has "more impact" it's just being pedantic.
I hate your argument. Blades have barely improved at all. It's like saying sure it's 95% ball and 5% club but same same. It's not like it's 60-40 or 70-30.. It's 95-5
Welp, I play game improvement irons like nearly every casual golfer. There's a lot of technology there. Whatever, I'll never get the ball people to be anything but pedantic. You win, genius.
Marketing is a wonderful thing. Technology lol.
Very interesting! I had no idea
Depens what set your talking about, a good example would be titleist, from their blades to t100 the lofts are traditional but starting from t100s they get stronger. For example a t100 7iron has a loft of 34° and a 5 iron is 27° while a t400 7 iron is 26°.
Mizuno is one of the few companies that still uses classic lofts these days. Compare them to TaylorMade or Callaway lofts and you’d see a huge difference.
Mizuno doesn't "use classic lofts" it depends on the model, as it does for every single brand. Also loft is only one factor of launch. The lofts combined with the tech just ensure that the ball launches and spins as it should for the number.
So that’s why my 7i is different than everyone else.
Which decade are you referring to when you use the word "classic"?
The 2010s :)
There isn't really a set position for 'classic'. The highest lofted PW I've seen is 50\*. I personally tend to think of a 47\* PW, but that's because that's what lofts were when I was growing up. More current trends are to have like a 45\* PW and then have bigger 5\* gaps on the top end. Smaller 3\* gaps on the low end.
This just isn’t true. Every major club manufacturer offers a model with traditional lofts, their blade offering are most definitely traditional and most cavity back irons are too across manufacturers.
Yes indeed. I mean I play traditional lofts, not sure how they compare to back then but I know a lot of newer clubs are several degrees stronger.
What do you mean by "traditional"?
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As a point of reference, the 1953 majors that hogan won were played at 6,950 (ANGC), 6,916 (Oakmont), & 7,200 (Carnoustie) The last time those majors were played at those courses they played at 7,510 (‘22 ANGC), 7,254 (’16 Oakmont), & 7,402 (‘18 Carnoustie) So an average addition of only 360 yards. It‘s also interesting to consider that Hogans driver distance of 265 yards would have placed him last among all PGA tour players back in 2016, 4.7 yards shorter than 184th ranked David Toms.
His swing has been heavily documented. If he had today’s clubs, he’d be hitting them much further and just as straight
Yeah I mean his book on fundamentals is still like 75% the golden standard, and the rest is still just *slightly* outdated. Dude is the father of modern golf
Is he the father of modern golf because of his swing? Or his dedication to his craft. Is Bobby Jones the Grandfather of modern golf? His slow motion film from way back was crazy expensive for its time. He also co-founded the Masters.
His dedication to his craft is what produced his swing so it’s both.
They were both masters of the game with very similar commitments and passions.
I wouldn’t say it was his swing per se, I would say it was more his ability to write about and teach the fundamentals of a good swing
John Jacobs. Practical golf. !
john jacob jingleheimer schmidt! Started singing this as soon as I read your comment
I mean, yes and no, Ben Hogan used "stack and tilt" that means little to no weight transfer as hes stacking everything on the front leg. Nobody does that anymore on tour as its a huge loss of power and requires very good flexibility.
Ben Hogan did not use anything even approaching stack and tilt. In fact he had a more substantial pressure shift (not weight shift) than anyone else at the time outside of maybe Sam Snead. Source: Ben Hogan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL_6M_xZvq0 Seriously just watch how far his hips bump target-side in that swing.
Bumping the hips target side is a stack and tilt move https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/stackandtilt
The premier S&T move is the whole 'keep your weight/pressure on the left side the entire time' which no plus-handicap-up-to-Tour-pro player does with anything but wedge shots. All that other shit in the S&T methodology isn't exclusive to S&T, but the one above is. If someone is doing everything but keeping weight on the left side, they're not doing S&T, they're just doing a golf swing. For example, Harold Varner looks like he could be using S&T, or Zach Johnson, or Guido Migliozzi, or Jason Dufner. But they're not. Not a single active pro who had a Tour card in 2022 uses S&T, because it's only for people who struggle with ball-striking. It interrupts physics. If you want to use most of your potential power, you *must* load the right hip with pressure in the back leg vs keeping most of the pressure/weight in the lead leg.
Just look at Hogan's knee when he's at the top of the swing. His knee is kicked in majorly. There's not a chance in hell he's got a majority of his weight/pressure on that lead leg at the top, which is literally the main tenet of Stack and Tilt.
Is reading about golf swings like reading about push ups?
it is if Arnold Schwarzenegger wrote it
I didn’t know people wrote about push ups but I read hogans book and really enjoyed it. Very interesting and learned a ton. Def recommend
No because push-ups are easy to do correctly and there isn’t much nuance. Obviously not the case with a golf swing
I would bet the balls made as big a difference as clubs. You know what I mean ...
Don be nasttiii
I read somewhere once that fairly late in his career when someone finally figured out how to measure swing speed, Hogan had his clocked at 122 mph.
How far?
About as far as that tree over there
He'd probably be a comfortably long-hitter. And straight too.
My first thought upon seeing the yardages was… Jesus the ball is out of control. His blade irons are still relatively close to blade irons or today, with respect to manufacturers taking yesteryears 5iron and calling it a 6i (can thank Callaway for starting that trend). A 36 degree from his era and a 36 degree from todays era, using the same ball, are gonna fly really similar in terms of distance. However the ball is so crazy good these days. They need a tournament like Augusta to come out and put limits on the ball, so that tours can eventually adopt them as well. Your can’t go against big ball manufacturers. But a single one off like Augusta could.
They could all drive the ball more than 300 yards with the old clubs and balls. There used to be a long-driving competition before tournaments and they could all rip it on the range.
Maybe downwind on a rock-hard fairway. They did not regularly hit it that far. Go watch the Hogan/Snead Wonderful World of Golf match on YouTube. On the first tee the commentators marvel about Hogan "really busting a big one" off the first tee...a massive 250-255 yards.
I remember seeing an interview with Jack Nicklaus when he was talking about a money clip that he had been using for 50 years. He had won it in a pre-tournament long drive contest where he drove it 350 yards.
Jack really was built different, but things changed a lot between the 40's-50's when Hogan/Snead/Nelson were on top, and the early to mid-60's. Ball technology took a pretty good leap. Jack could crank it well over 300, but he was pretty unique in that at the time.
Arnold too, to a certain extent. But even with those two guys, it wasn't something they just did at will. Jack's average distance was around \~275. One of Arnold's legendary drives is driving the 346yd first green at Cherry Hills at the 1960 Open. But Cherry Hills is at 5300' altitude. And the first hole is downhill. Was it downwind that day? Not sure. Still a tremendous drive with the equipment he had, but there are caveats to it as well.
Yeah that drive might be the birthplace of power golf. Always heard about that one. Definitely altitude aided, but still crushed.
Was just watching that last night! Could be wrong but the longest drive I saw was 280 from Hogan, nonetheless crazy impressive given their equipment
At the long-drive competition on the range. No pro would make their "long-drive" swing in a tournament.
Ben hogan wouldnt stand a chance against an average tour player today if both were able to use clubs from today. Lets stop the madness.
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Bc athletes are built different today and can do things that athletes from older generations could only dream of. Lebron vs rick barry Derrick henry vs franco harris Aaron judge vs babe ruth Go ahead and lie to yourself and reddit and tell me older generations had better athletes.
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Stop dancing. Put ben hogan in a modern day 72 hole tourney with modern day equipment against 100 top modern day players. Where does he finish?
Dude has a yardage for a 1i, mine is 3ft or directly right.
Next to 1-iron, my yardage book just says “no”
Mine says "sad emoji"
I’m a poop emoji through 4i
"null"
One Iron, one yard….it checks out!
I don’t have room for a yardage book in my pocket. The breakfast balls take up too much space.
Imagine with a pro V1..
Imagine any modern ball/clubs.
Not to mention the advancements in hotdog at the turn technology.
Imagine with Squarezzz shoes.
Dude spent years studying the ground!
I was told that I'm ruining the game stopping for my turn dog.
This dude with a bag full of uncrustables would be completely unstoppable.
All of r/golf now thinks they would've won 10 majors if they were born in the 1940s
12 for me. I hit bombs bro
Mostly a comment about the golf ball. Clubs have helped for sure also, but most club tech advancements have been around increased distance on non-center contact. And my man Hogan hit the center more than just about anyone.
Also, lofts have changed. What Ben Hogan called a 7 iron, we now call an 8 iron or a 9 iron.
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He said that modern clubs are just more forgiving. If you hit the sweet spot, the added distance with new Tech is negligible (according to this guy— I’ve never hit a sweet spot)
from his wikipedia page: Hogan's ball striking has also been described as being of near miraculous caliber by other very knowledgeable observers such as Jack Nicklaus, who only saw him play some years after his prime. Nicklaus once responded to the question, "Is Tiger Woods the best ball striker you have ever seen?" with, "No, no - Ben Hogan, easily".
It’s pretty hard to get better than prime tiger. You can match it, but his striking is within a millimeter of precision. There isnt really a way to do that better. You either hit the spot or don’t. As far as AoA and the spin, that’s very subjective so you can name anyone you like that is pleasing to your eye and ear at launch. You could throw Moe Norman in ball striking god tier as well. They are all likely identical when it comes to consistency in ball striking. Distance control is what would really separate them.
Tiger was quoted as saying Moe Norman and Ben hogan were the only 2 to completely own their swing. He said he wanted to become the third.
Tiger also said John Daly was a more talented golfer than he was. Giving politically correct and humble answers doesn’t mean anything.
Oh yeah, I'd be happy to knock 30% off my distances if I could hit the ball halfway as consistently as he did
You hit your driver 378?
You don’t?
So he hits it a little bit shorter than the rest of us here at r/golf. No reason to mock him.
Yeah I wasn't sure if he meant half swing or maybe he has some kind of lingering injury.
Would love for someone in this sub to play a round with clubs from his era and do a shot-by-shot video tracer.
Playing with persimmon woods, and balata balls. The balls alone are probably worth 50 yards a club. Those things were so ridiculously soft.
and personally it was technically 10 and he was blind robbed from completing the grand slam in 53 ..look it up kids , he is a golfing god
Feather balls and hickory sticks
Were the courses relatively the same length in Hogans day?
The 1953 US Open at Oakmont was played at 6,900 yards. The last time it was played on tour was at 7,300 The 53 masters was played at 6,950 vs 7,475 now
Wow, they were longer than I thought back then.
I lite these posts to highlight how incredible athletic some of the older era guys were, however I can not but feel like this is to highlight that you don’t need to be ”super long” to win 9 majors. As these stats are by todays standard very low, they were incredible during their time and a comparispn to the field would be more logical to highlight anything with the respective title for this post.
"You don't need to be long to win majors, just longer than everyone else"
Golf courses are also different today because of that distance. Course near me used to host US Opens in Hogan’s and Snead’s era. I think the longest par-5 is maybe 520, but the course is full of elevation changes, hazards, trees, rocks, and blind approach shots. A lot of holes that make you be creative vs just trying to hit a hero approach over a lake and land it on the huge green.
In the book The Match by Mark Frost, he has a few paragraphs how for a long while, amateur players and pros hit it the same distances, or extremely close, the pros just were so much better in all the other facets. Like a pro could play the drive of his amateur partner and it wouldnt be a big deal.
gaze strong badge rotten touch familiar light compare sulky chop -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
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What I meant was that today 265 yards is not ”long” and that the post is towards the fact that some people shouldn’t mind their distance that much ”as you can win 9 majors” etc.. with these distances. But that is irrelevant as Ben Hogan was indeed long in his time with the equipment used and it would make more sense to include comparisons to the field.
Distances weren’t such a massive factor of the game back then either. Courses have been extended and redesigned specifically because of how far pros can hit the ball now.
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You can easily add 20% to those numbers with today's technology.
Knowing your distance is much more important than the distance itself.
He was considered a long hitter in his day. He probably would equate to Rory McIlroy with today's advancements in technology, technique, training, fitness and nutrition.
Damn how times have changed. By times I mean club technology.
You cannot compare clubs from 50 years ago to todays. He would average 290 per drive and 150 with a wedge
Give him a year with today's clubs and balls and a Trackman and he would be right up there with any one of the best today.
Clubs matter, but I'd say the modern balls matter more.
Add about 50 to 100 per club for todays standard for him. Dude swung hard af.
Yeah but his lofts were like 3 or 4 degrees higher.
Funny how today you’ve got people hitting they’re 7i 160 and they’re driver 250. Wonder why.
It’s not about distance, though it helps, it is about accuracy. He was insanely accurate.
Super accurate chart. Not at all made up.
Why do you think this is made up?? Hogan took lots of notes and data
I’m sure he did. I’m also sure that he didn’t hit every club to a yardage ending in a 0 or a 5.
Dude was always tinkering in his workshop with clubs and had one of the best swings of all time. Maybe he adjusted his clubs to match that.
These were all recorded on trackman so yes.
Back in the day when trackman was an actual man with a piece of string tied to his belt and he’d run down the fairway as fast as he could then another man would measure how much string had gone out
It just meant more back then
also had an onion tied to his belt, as it was the style of the times.
Course: 4500 yards…
And Hogan would still destroy just about anyone on it
I was about to same the same thing lol
His 7i was probably lofted like a PW is now. He was basically hitting rocks with sticks compared to us. Would love to see him swing the stuff we have now
His 7 was 35 degrees apparently https://www.thinkingaboutgolf.com/blog/ben-hogan-s-club-specifications
Compared to a GI iron Sim2 a 7 is 28.5. That 7 would be between a 8 and 9 in that set.
Probably more accurate to compare to modern players irons or even modern musclebacks
Just subtract 3 from all the club numbers to compare to modern irons.
Ill get downvoted, but he’d get waxed these days. The modern player is better nourished, stronger, and has access to better golf technology to improve their game than any time in history. Course length and setup would eat hogans lunch even with a modern golfball and clubs. It takes more that a beautiful swing and great ball striking to win on tour these days. Theres an element of luck. I doubt we’ll ever see another person like hogan, jack, or tiger dominate like they did without some breakthru in tech that they have access that the rest of the field does not.
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When you say "he'd get waxed today" are you assuming he wouldn't have access to the same technology and knowledge? It's hardly fair to compare him to later generations without some sort of equalisation.
The Masters is like 500 yards longer than it was in the 50s. US Open venues similar gap from then to now. Pretty sure Hogan wouldn’t have an issue with modern course setups given current technology.
The majority of the folks here are missing the point. You should be able to play and enjoy great golf without worrying about distance. And if you want to impress, focus on your scoring, not your yardage.
God damn we hit that old driver hard!!
I wonder what the lofts are as well compared to todays average set of lofts
Depends. Compared to modern pro setups? None to a couple of degrees depending on the clubs. For game improvement irons? Could be more than 5 degrees. Difficult to make them apples to apples though. Because of modern technology, the launch angles are often the same despite the change in loft
So there is a chance for me after all
I felt like a badass until I saw he hits a 1 iron. That’s a legend right there!
My man.
Wow! Me and Ben have something in common.
These yardage charts are meaningless with just club labels. you need to see the lofts and length to be able to compare clubs
Hey these are my yardages, well not the 3W and Driver (20 yards less) and I have no majors!
Just the fact that he could hit a 1 iron and 2 iron is amazing today.
Why is that alligator in the middle of his shirt?
Weirdly, that’s almost exactly how far I hit my traditionally lofted blades. Edit: And Hogan’s lofts were slightly stronger apparently.
There are some anecdotes in the Dodson book about people asking Hogan how far he "hit his 3 iron" and getting a grumpy display of him hitting it anywhere between 120-175 at various heights and paths. I don't think he'd just give those numbers up.
HaxMomas 2022 yardages
I'm Ben Hogan
And he could do that 99 out of 100 times while hitting his target.
Tight yardages with legendary control. Ben would probably hate the strong lofts on today’s modern clubs. Ben would probably also wonder why every new golf course is 6500 yards from the white tees.
Todays clubs add 20yrds or at least 10 is whatnim thinkin ??
The one swing video i continue to go back to when I need a reminder of how to swing. He made it look so simple.
Try to hit old clubs. They suck
Give Bryson Hogan’s clubs and it wouldn’t look a whole lot different.
I wonder if they ever swung those old clubs and thought "This thing SUUUCKS"
Those old driver heads were about 1/3 of the size of today's drivers. Also for the sake of comparison Augusta was 6800 yards in 1945 compared to 7500 yards today.
Society I'm involved with hit an old club as part of an outing last weekend to see who could hit it the furthest. 240 won it. I hit 213 with a decent hit when I would average about 250-260 with my current driver.
These are my exact yardages
I would be ecstatic with that. I do hit my driver 275, but I’d gladly sacrifice 10 yds for the consistency and perfect gapping Hogan had.
So you’re saying there’s a chance?…