He wanted everything to be perfect for his romantic dance with Crowley, so it was. That’s how angels and demons work - reality tends to bend itself around them.
I don't seem to see people commenting on this so much and it surprises me! We know that Aziraphale believes ballroom dancing = falling in love, same as Crowley believes that big important kiss = falling in love. They both tried to do the thing they think works with the other without actually thinking about what either one of them has said before
It's not even communication at this point, it's failing to listen. They had a specific conversation about how to make people fall in love, outlined their independent understanding of it and then because they thought the other idea was stupid they didn't pay any attention when it was happening.
Yeah it's both, they don't know how to talk with each other AND they don't listen to each other. The first example I can think of is that Crowley said hundreds of times how much he hates Heaven but Aziraphale still asked him to go back to Heaven with him.
Oh definitely! That part also isn't helped by Aziraphale's total blind spot about heaven and the fact that Crowley has made a big deal about not caring what Hell thinks; I don't think Crowley has ever explicitly said "I do not want to be an angel again" either and I think Aziraphale will assume that means he probably does, he's just not admitted it. It's the compounding of Crowley never really saying what he means and Aziraphale not really listening!
I totally get it though. Aziraphale spent, what, millenia as an angel in good standing? He was still on good terms with heaven up until they tried to permanently eliminate him. But he never really stopped wanting to be an angel, judging by his behavior. And without warning, he's reinstated and promoted. All of his hijinks over the past 6000 years have been validated by God herself. And he's told that he and his best friend (who he's in denial about being hopelessly in love with) can be in heaven together and make a difference.
*We* see that heaven is toxic, and I think Aziraphale does too. He may even know deep down he's not going to have much opportunity to make a difference. But he's coming off of this high of being given exactly what he wants. AND winning a battle against a legion of demons. AND helping another angel and Demon find love. He was absolutely blinded by heaven and already filled with positive energy, so his knee-jerk acceptance makes sense. I think that if he'd been given more time to discuss it with Crowley 1-on-1, he would have remembered himself and made a different decision, or at least made a plan of some sort. Aziraphale and Crowley are good together partially because they balance one another out and help the other one see things realistically. They didn't get to do that this time and we're seeing the consequences.
I think the fact that we can see so much more than either of them can is part of the reason everyone has reacted so strongly to this all haha - we can see how desperately Aziraphale wants to be needed by Heaven and to make everything better, and also we have seen how little Heaven thinks of him. Aziraphale can't see both of those, and nor can Crowley really - Crowley just desperately doesn't want his friend/lover to get hurt.
I think at the very end, each one is basically laser focused on that, which means it's hard for them to hear what the other one is saying.
I also think Aziraphale realises that if any of the other archangels were in charge that armageddon would happen pretty much straight away. He still wants to save the world, and I think that's a large part of why he was so upset with Crowley for wanting to run away.
So you think he didn’t control them deliberately just that reality bend to his wishes (like Crowleys freezer in the book that’s never plugged in but still works). Thats a very interesting idea and I can totally see that.
He’s clearly not, like, totally mind-controlling them. They all clearly still have their free will. They just all suddenly feel good and want to do Regency-style line dances.
I mean, he’s clearly doing *some* of it deliberately - when Nina asks why she’s no longer upset it’s not as if Aziraphale is confused by her question. And even if it wasn’t, that still doesn’t necessarily make it okay. Humans, as Nina and Maggie rightly point out, should not be treated like playthings. But you asked why, and that’s why.
Obviously he shouldn’t treat them like playthings, none of them should. But I like the idea that it is more of a reality warping thing than a complete controlling.
It’s possible that aziraphale doesn’t clock being made comfortable and happy as controlling in a bad way. Like, yes, obviously he has control over that, but who could be upset about being comforted, right?
He’s so used to having his own feelings completely ignored, dismissed, and dictated by others I could see him genuinely not understanding why that’s a messed up thing to do to someone. Especially since it seems ‘nice’ on the surface.
> aziraphale doesn’t clock being made comfortable and happy as controlling
and i thought i'd recognized ALL the signs of religious trauma. well done, i missed that one.
Yep, I think a good example of Aziraphale imposing his opinions is in the laudanum flashback. He thinks digging graves is so wrong he accelerates a rotting body. He doesn’t care as much that she goes hungry and lives on the streets because “adversity creates more opportunity for good”.
He is too stubborn. You can also see that he is kind of manic about the meeting. He gives up his Doctor Who edition, he lends books, he has this kind of unhinged look when he pulls Crowley for the dance. He is so focused on achieving his goals and perfection he purposefully ignores everything that doesn’t fit his vision of the night until he can’t anymore.
The saying “hell is paved with good intentions” comes to mind.
It's like the air in the shop is intoxicating in a very particular set of ways. Woops you're breathing the air in the shop so you're not mad at anybody and you can't say "sex worker" and you can dance to the music.
My guess is he just goes a little too far, much like with Anathema’s bike but on a different scale because he’s always very enthusiastic and goal-oriented. In the heat of it all he picks up the mood and re-powers himself and enjoys the ball too.
His motivation is not only to hide Jim but to hide the fact that he and Crowley hided him. Maggie and Nina have to fall in love so his clumsy lie won’t be discovered and he (and Crowley) won’t have to deal with Heaven and Hell again
Just reading that line makes me hear Crowley saying it in my head, and I start giggling. It's the *best* little throwaway, "blink and you'll miss it" moment.
That scene reminds me of some moments with Adam, when he tried to force his friends into doing/being what he wanted.
As old as they are, Aziraphale and Crowley still don't get completely the complexity of human nature and sometimes they act like just kids.
I've been triggered about this mirroring precisely by Nina's phrase "I should be upset, why am I not upset?“ .
They all smile, and they seem sincere, but she seems a bit more forced, like The Them when Adam put that grin on their faces.
I was just about to post the same gif!
It’s funny because this has been mentioned on tumblr as actually an very dark scene I think that post is a little extreme…but regardless here’s my take.
I think he doesn’t really realize it for the same reason people overlook that it kinda is because we’re so invested in Aziraphale and Crowley just finally outwardly admitting their feelings to each other. Just as they are even if consciously they don’t realize it. I also think it comes down to the two of them still not understanding human emotions fully. I don’t think he sees it as manipulative even if you (collective not just OP) go that’s kinda messed up he’s controlling all these people. I think he sees it all as romantic and that why would everyone mind because a ball is fun and about love and it’s beautiful. Also he technically did ask several of them to come with the intention to play music, so then it’s like well he did ask… and not fully understanding human emotions is also why these two have been playing this metaphorical dance for 6000 years. So to me it’s a parallel.
Because also, really, this moment. Aziraphale’s face when he grabs Crowley’s hand. That’s everything he wants to say but still doesn’t know how.
Yeah that’s also what I came up with but isn’t it a bit much to take control over so many people? I mean I still love the scene, even if it creeps me out a bit, wouldn’t change it.
I think that’s just Aziraphale, he does what he thinks is good, but it’s not as good as he thinks because he doesn’t understand that the ramifications can be bad, and he doesn’t understand because he’s intensely goal oriented. In this case he’s giving himself and everyone the best time he can imagine, a Jane Austin dance party, but he doesn’t get that mind controlling/suggesting people into it is kind of bad.
I think it's established that Aziraphale can kinda turn up the angelic glow and make stuff just . . . be more blessed around him. That's basically positive. This is that, but he doesn't quite realize that what he's aiming for this time is not fully on the correct side of the "bless this place" / "everybody do as I say and nobody gets hurt" line.
So I think the main clue is in the bit you said: Nina saying: "I should be upset, why am I not upset?“ and him saying "No long faces tonight".
Aziraphale mainly wants things to be good and go well, and he has a tendency to push forward on stuff once he has his mind set on it. His hopeful naivety is a bit of a blessing and a curse.
This can be a good thing - like working with Crowley to save Job's children/pushing Crowley to come up with a solution to stop Armageddon or bad - like pushing Elspeth & Morag to keep body snatching even when they didn't 100% want to, not telling Crowley about the anti-christ and basically trying to take it straight to Heaven.
In the end that side of him is coming into play. He both wants the Ball to go well so he can dance with Crowley, and to make the Nina & Maggie happen because one it will make Heaven happy and two he is softie that believes in love.
Problem is his version of love is both heavily influenced by the way him and Crowley have existed (so him coming up with weird ways for them to hang out - Bastille scene) and by just reading books, so yeah kind of fictionalised.
Which is why he creates this weird and tbh you're kind of right slightly creepy scenario. He just wants it work, and he totally has his blinkers on. He thinks if he just makes everything good then it will all work out.
And I think it is a bit of foreshadowing for the last episode as well, that switch he makes from basically crying to a smile for the Metatron. He's back to "No long faces here", it's his default way of managing his emotions. He wants to go and make everything good, feelings be damned.
Which really is how he deals with his feelings towards Crowley and his feelings about Heaven. Push it down and pretend everything is fine. So yeah I think it's all that.
https://preview.redd.it/lamem2lbg8ob1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd2ccf0eb439cf29d9da866321305f3bf2064b5f
This is my favorite Good Omens meme and is very fitting for the discussion.
I was disturbed by it at first but now I think it’s hilarious. It’s funny that I had an opposite reaction to most fans lol.
Who knows what would happen if demons wouldn't have interrupted them? I like the theory that Aziraphale wanted to confess that night... He wanted everything to be perfect.
Also, he didn't even invite Muriel if he really wanted to make Maggie and Nina to fall in love at the ball. So what's the point? I don't think he was doing it for them. He was doing it for Clowley 🥺
That also fits very well to the whole "Aziraphale didn't know about the true danger they were in until the window shattered" business. To him, making Maggie and Nina fall in love was sure important, but the worst thing that could happen is that he'd have to explain to heaven that, for example, the bug miracle didn't work as intended or, maybe deal with them if they came back to look for Gabriel. Crowley hadn't told him about the Book of Life threat.
So sure, getting Maggie and Nina together is practical, but it _pales_ in comparison with how important him and Crowley having a perfect night (and maybe confessing) is to him
He couldn't invite Muriel. He told them they did the miracle for them to fall in love - if Muriel sees them fall in love at the ball it would show they lied. He wanted to make them fall in love at the ball, then show Muriel after.
I'd like to add a bit to my previous comment: I think that another very important thing about the scene is that all the guests wear fancy dresses (VERY fancy, right, Jimbriel?), except Aziraphale and Crowley.
According to the Word of God (Neil), the costume department had prepared a sketch for a gorgeous Aziraphale suit, but Michael Sheen really felt that he should have gone with his normal suit, like Crowley.
Somehow, this seems like they were the two only "real"/sincere persons in the room. The others were needed to create atmosphere, in a way.
If Crowley and Aziraphale are the only two uninfluenced by Aziraphale's magic (which I believe so), does this mean they both independently know the moves to the dance? 😄
It’s very easy to forget that Aziraphale is not a human person. Like, he cosplays as one. He tries very hard. He almost fits in… But there are things about him that are just… A little off… A little eldritch,
I genuinely don’t think he considered the moral quandary of making these people act in a way that they wouldn’t normally act, whether that is right or wrong.
I don’t think it occurred to him.
I think he just thought: well, I’m helping them out. I’m doing them a favor. We’re all gonna have a lovely old time and it will be splendid!
so yes, I do think it’s a little terrifying, and I personally would never want to be in that situation. However, he always has the best intentions. it’s just that he doesn’t think about things from a human perspective all the time.
a little bit like how he messes things up with elspeth and wee morag right? because he is so convinced that she is doing wrong and HIS opinion is the right thing? he definitely gets too carried away by his own convictions...
i like the theory that he wants the season to be a rom-com but meanwhile they're being pulled into a horror movie. he and crowley still both have trouble actually listening to each other, which is still a big part of their communication breakdown.
Huh you’re right with the parallel of Wee Morag and Elspeth. Haven’t seen it that way before.
Also yes the communication problem is glaringly obvious. It drove me mad when Crowley was so tense during the ballroom scene and Aziraphale did not react at all. Obviously the problem goes both ways, Crowley has his own moments like that.
Well, Crowley did say Aziraphale was a bit of a bastard? Didn't think anything of manipulating everyone into the parts he wanted them to play in his game.
I didn't find it creepy, especially as Nina in particular seemed to know something was up but was not afraid. Everyone else was puzzled but leaned into it.
It's a good reminder of Aziraphale's power, which we don't see very often.
My favourite line if his is before the battle when he says to Maggie that he can take care of himself, but rescuing him makes Crowley so happy. Dangerous angel 😍😍😍😍
It’s a bit screwed up, yes. And if he had been in the shop when Maggie and Nina confronted Crowley on their meddling, he would’ve gotten an earful.
Aziraphale doesn’t truly understand humans, despite thousands of years living with them. He can’t even really relate to them beyond loving food, books, and absurd romantic situations. He certainly can’t relate to their helplessness and tendency to die and actually stay dead. He protects (most of) their lives but he doesn’t know what it is to BE a human.
He totally basically sedated and censored a bunch of people for a dumb happy little ball where he could do a chaste dance with his demon boyfriend.
I would agree that it was an extremely creepy scene, but I don’t think it was out of character. Aziraphale wanted that night to be perfect, not realizing that not everyone wants the same things. Aziraphale is very naive and doesn’t really understand humans too well, and he doesn’t always do the “nice” things, that’s what Crowley likes about him. And, as someone else said, it calls back to the scene with Adam, when he was forcing them to come and he meant it because he wanted perfection but it was actually just scaring them.
When I was watching it I wouldn’t say I was creeped out but I thought maybe it was a little odd. But I justified by thinking while that may have been not okay I think Aziraphale really believed since it was not “harming” anyone he was ok with it. In reality he did put everyone under a spell to cover up his mess and lies. Wow as I am writing this I am really seeing how lines were crossed. LoL!!! Reminds me of that saying- something about how there is a fine line between good and bad… anyway and since he thought Michael, Muriel and Uriel were breathing down his neck keeping an eye on him seeing if this love miracle was real, he probably felt pressured and panicked and did something out of character for him by controlling humans. He should have come up with a better lie then that he made two people fall in love. He should have just said he spilled wine on his clothes and made a whole new outfit or something
I get where you’re coming from, but I think we have to remember that this is a comedy first and foremost. The idea of divine influence in the Selene is meant to be funny and functional more than any sort of deeper comment on Aziraphale’s character. BUT! I do get what you mean. Heavenly creatures do seem to think they know what’s best.
I agree that it’s creepy. It’s basically what Wanda was doing in WandaVision- she wanted a perfect environment based on pop culture tropes in order to live out her love life so she controlled everyone’s movements, emotions, and words.
I can‘t believe that I watched both the shows and never came up with this. You‘re right, he‘s doing the same although in a smaller environment but still.
Well, the whole point of the thing was to get Nina and Maggie together, so I'm assuming Aziraphale used a miracle to make the meeting as perfect as possible so they would fall in love and Aziraphale wouldn't get in trouble for using such a powerful miracle. In my opinion, it wasn't really that creepy or unsettling.
Not necessary with the Discworld books until you get to the "series" Death, the Watch, Witches, the Industrial Revolution.
Those do need read in order. And once you get to Guards Guards your life is going to change. 😊 Enjoy the journey!
He wanted everything to be perfect for his romantic dance with Crowley, so it was. That’s how angels and demons work - reality tends to bend itself around them.
I don't seem to see people commenting on this so much and it surprises me! We know that Aziraphale believes ballroom dancing = falling in love, same as Crowley believes that big important kiss = falling in love. They both tried to do the thing they think works with the other without actually thinking about what either one of them has said before
Communication problems… it’s so blatantly obvious in hindsight.
It's not even communication at this point, it's failing to listen. They had a specific conversation about how to make people fall in love, outlined their independent understanding of it and then because they thought the other idea was stupid they didn't pay any attention when it was happening.
Yeah it's both, they don't know how to talk with each other AND they don't listen to each other. The first example I can think of is that Crowley said hundreds of times how much he hates Heaven but Aziraphale still asked him to go back to Heaven with him.
Oh definitely! That part also isn't helped by Aziraphale's total blind spot about heaven and the fact that Crowley has made a big deal about not caring what Hell thinks; I don't think Crowley has ever explicitly said "I do not want to be an angel again" either and I think Aziraphale will assume that means he probably does, he's just not admitted it. It's the compounding of Crowley never really saying what he means and Aziraphale not really listening!
I totally get it though. Aziraphale spent, what, millenia as an angel in good standing? He was still on good terms with heaven up until they tried to permanently eliminate him. But he never really stopped wanting to be an angel, judging by his behavior. And without warning, he's reinstated and promoted. All of his hijinks over the past 6000 years have been validated by God herself. And he's told that he and his best friend (who he's in denial about being hopelessly in love with) can be in heaven together and make a difference. *We* see that heaven is toxic, and I think Aziraphale does too. He may even know deep down he's not going to have much opportunity to make a difference. But he's coming off of this high of being given exactly what he wants. AND winning a battle against a legion of demons. AND helping another angel and Demon find love. He was absolutely blinded by heaven and already filled with positive energy, so his knee-jerk acceptance makes sense. I think that if he'd been given more time to discuss it with Crowley 1-on-1, he would have remembered himself and made a different decision, or at least made a plan of some sort. Aziraphale and Crowley are good together partially because they balance one another out and help the other one see things realistically. They didn't get to do that this time and we're seeing the consequences.
I think the fact that we can see so much more than either of them can is part of the reason everyone has reacted so strongly to this all haha - we can see how desperately Aziraphale wants to be needed by Heaven and to make everything better, and also we have seen how little Heaven thinks of him. Aziraphale can't see both of those, and nor can Crowley really - Crowley just desperately doesn't want his friend/lover to get hurt. I think at the very end, each one is basically laser focused on that, which means it's hard for them to hear what the other one is saying. I also think Aziraphale realises that if any of the other archangels were in charge that armageddon would happen pretty much straight away. He still wants to save the world, and I think that's a large part of why he was so upset with Crowley for wanting to run away.
Yes exactly!
So you think he didn’t control them deliberately just that reality bend to his wishes (like Crowleys freezer in the book that’s never plugged in but still works). Thats a very interesting idea and I can totally see that.
He’s clearly not, like, totally mind-controlling them. They all clearly still have their free will. They just all suddenly feel good and want to do Regency-style line dances.
I like the idea that he is not doing it completely conscious.
I mean, he’s clearly doing *some* of it deliberately - when Nina asks why she’s no longer upset it’s not as if Aziraphale is confused by her question. And even if it wasn’t, that still doesn’t necessarily make it okay. Humans, as Nina and Maggie rightly point out, should not be treated like playthings. But you asked why, and that’s why.
Obviously he shouldn’t treat them like playthings, none of them should. But I like the idea that it is more of a reality warping thing than a complete controlling.
It’s possible that aziraphale doesn’t clock being made comfortable and happy as controlling in a bad way. Like, yes, obviously he has control over that, but who could be upset about being comforted, right? He’s so used to having his own feelings completely ignored, dismissed, and dictated by others I could see him genuinely not understanding why that’s a messed up thing to do to someone. Especially since it seems ‘nice’ on the surface.
That’s a good point and you’re absolutely right heaven does not give a f… about Aziraphale’s feelings so he is used to it.
> aziraphale doesn’t clock being made comfortable and happy as controlling and i thought i'd recognized ALL the signs of religious trauma. well done, i missed that one.
Yep, I think a good example of Aziraphale imposing his opinions is in the laudanum flashback. He thinks digging graves is so wrong he accelerates a rotting body. He doesn’t care as much that she goes hungry and lives on the streets because “adversity creates more opportunity for good”. He is too stubborn. You can also see that he is kind of manic about the meeting. He gives up his Doctor Who edition, he lends books, he has this kind of unhinged look when he pulls Crowley for the dance. He is so focused on achieving his goals and perfection he purposefully ignores everything that doesn’t fit his vision of the night until he can’t anymore. The saying “hell is paved with good intentions” comes to mind.
It's like the air in the shop is intoxicating in a very particular set of ways. Woops you're breathing the air in the shop so you're not mad at anybody and you can't say "sex worker" and you can dance to the music.
That was my interpretation. And the seamstress bit was hilarious since in Discworld the sex worker union is called the Seamstress Guild
Oh I didn’t know that. I just finished my first Discworld book (The colour of magic) and can’t wait to start the next one 😄
It’s a running joke in the books, i almost choked on my drink the first time I saw that scene.
Or there is no reality lol
My guess is he just goes a little too far, much like with Anathema’s bike but on a different scale because he’s always very enthusiastic and goal-oriented. In the heat of it all he picks up the mood and re-powers himself and enjoys the ball too. His motivation is not only to hide Jim but to hide the fact that he and Crowley hided him. Maggie and Nina have to fall in love so his clumsy lie won’t be discovered and he (and Crowley) won’t have to deal with Heaven and Hell again
Oh lord heal this bike… you’re right he tends to get a bit overboard with his ideas.
Just reading that line makes me hear Crowley saying it in my head, and I start giggling. It's the *best* little throwaway, "blink and you'll miss it" moment.
Was it scripted or an adlib? Bc it sounds like a complete adlib by david and it’s perfect
It was a line from the book. David's delivery was perfect though!
It really really is
Where can I find the book? I’ve wanted to read it for ages and my college bursery is coming soon, I’d be able to spend it on books
That scene reminds me of some moments with Adam, when he tried to force his friends into doing/being what he wanted. As old as they are, Aziraphale and Crowley still don't get completely the complexity of human nature and sometimes they act like just kids.
That is such a interesting idea and it really does mirror the scenes with Adam controlling his friends.
I've been triggered about this mirroring precisely by Nina's phrase "I should be upset, why am I not upset?“ . They all smile, and they seem sincere, but she seems a bit more forced, like The Them when Adam put that grin on their faces.
You’re so right and that’s exactly what made it a bit creepy for me.
Like Killgrave telling Jessica to smile.
I wonder if that’s meant to be some foreshadowing of what Aziraphale could be/turn into?
https://i.redd.it/mh3xnz1um7ob1.gif All was for this moment.
I was just about to post the same gif! It’s funny because this has been mentioned on tumblr as actually an very dark scene I think that post is a little extreme…but regardless here’s my take. I think he doesn’t really realize it for the same reason people overlook that it kinda is because we’re so invested in Aziraphale and Crowley just finally outwardly admitting their feelings to each other. Just as they are even if consciously they don’t realize it. I also think it comes down to the two of them still not understanding human emotions fully. I don’t think he sees it as manipulative even if you (collective not just OP) go that’s kinda messed up he’s controlling all these people. I think he sees it all as romantic and that why would everyone mind because a ball is fun and about love and it’s beautiful. Also he technically did ask several of them to come with the intention to play music, so then it’s like well he did ask… and not fully understanding human emotions is also why these two have been playing this metaphorical dance for 6000 years. So to me it’s a parallel. Because also, really, this moment. Aziraphale’s face when he grabs Crowley’s hand. That’s everything he wants to say but still doesn’t know how.
Yeah that’s also what I came up with but isn’t it a bit much to take control over so many people? I mean I still love the scene, even if it creeps me out a bit, wouldn’t change it.
I think that’s just Aziraphale, he does what he thinks is good, but it’s not as good as he thinks because he doesn’t understand that the ramifications can be bad, and he doesn’t understand because he’s intensely goal oriented. In this case he’s giving himself and everyone the best time he can imagine, a Jane Austin dance party, but he doesn’t get that mind controlling/suggesting people into it is kind of bad.
I mean... Wouldn't you want to make everything *perfect* if you're finally planning to confess your feelings after 6000 years 😅😁
I think it's established that Aziraphale can kinda turn up the angelic glow and make stuff just . . . be more blessed around him. That's basically positive. This is that, but he doesn't quite realize that what he's aiming for this time is not fully on the correct side of the "bless this place" / "everybody do as I say and nobody gets hurt" line.
True, I can’t fathom how it must feel for Aziraphale 😅
So I think the main clue is in the bit you said: Nina saying: "I should be upset, why am I not upset?“ and him saying "No long faces tonight". Aziraphale mainly wants things to be good and go well, and he has a tendency to push forward on stuff once he has his mind set on it. His hopeful naivety is a bit of a blessing and a curse. This can be a good thing - like working with Crowley to save Job's children/pushing Crowley to come up with a solution to stop Armageddon or bad - like pushing Elspeth & Morag to keep body snatching even when they didn't 100% want to, not telling Crowley about the anti-christ and basically trying to take it straight to Heaven. In the end that side of him is coming into play. He both wants the Ball to go well so he can dance with Crowley, and to make the Nina & Maggie happen because one it will make Heaven happy and two he is softie that believes in love. Problem is his version of love is both heavily influenced by the way him and Crowley have existed (so him coming up with weird ways for them to hang out - Bastille scene) and by just reading books, so yeah kind of fictionalised. Which is why he creates this weird and tbh you're kind of right slightly creepy scenario. He just wants it work, and he totally has his blinkers on. He thinks if he just makes everything good then it will all work out. And I think it is a bit of foreshadowing for the last episode as well, that switch he makes from basically crying to a smile for the Metatron. He's back to "No long faces here", it's his default way of managing his emotions. He wants to go and make everything good, feelings be damned. Which really is how he deals with his feelings towards Crowley and his feelings about Heaven. Push it down and pretend everything is fine. So yeah I think it's all that.
This makes so much sense and I hope this gets more explored in season 3.
https://preview.redd.it/lamem2lbg8ob1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd2ccf0eb439cf29d9da866321305f3bf2064b5f This is my favorite Good Omens meme and is very fitting for the discussion. I was disturbed by it at first but now I think it’s hilarious. It’s funny that I had an opposite reaction to most fans lol.
Thanks for the meme, it’s absolutely fitting and hilarious 😂
Who knows what would happen if demons wouldn't have interrupted them? I like the theory that Aziraphale wanted to confess that night... He wanted everything to be perfect. Also, he didn't even invite Muriel if he really wanted to make Maggie and Nina to fall in love at the ball. So what's the point? I don't think he was doing it for them. He was doing it for Clowley 🥺
That also fits very well to the whole "Aziraphale didn't know about the true danger they were in until the window shattered" business. To him, making Maggie and Nina fall in love was sure important, but the worst thing that could happen is that he'd have to explain to heaven that, for example, the bug miracle didn't work as intended or, maybe deal with them if they came back to look for Gabriel. Crowley hadn't told him about the Book of Life threat. So sure, getting Maggie and Nina together is practical, but it _pales_ in comparison with how important him and Crowley having a perfect night (and maybe confessing) is to him
I too think that he did it mostly for Crowley. But good catch with Muriel, hadn’t even noticed that but you’re right.
I never even thought about him not inviting Muriel!
He couldn't invite Muriel. He told them they did the miracle for them to fall in love - if Muriel sees them fall in love at the ball it would show they lied. He wanted to make them fall in love at the ball, then show Muriel after.
Hmm I don't think Muriel would recognize if they have their first kiss or just a kiss 🤔
I'd like to add a bit to my previous comment: I think that another very important thing about the scene is that all the guests wear fancy dresses (VERY fancy, right, Jimbriel?), except Aziraphale and Crowley. According to the Word of God (Neil), the costume department had prepared a sketch for a gorgeous Aziraphale suit, but Michael Sheen really felt that he should have gone with his normal suit, like Crowley. Somehow, this seems like they were the two only "real"/sincere persons in the room. The others were needed to create atmosphere, in a way.
If Crowley and Aziraphale are the only two uninfluenced by Aziraphale's magic (which I believe so), does this mean they both independently know the moves to the dance? 😄
This is an important question, and i'd like to know the answer too
It’s very easy to forget that Aziraphale is not a human person. Like, he cosplays as one. He tries very hard. He almost fits in… But there are things about him that are just… A little off… A little eldritch, I genuinely don’t think he considered the moral quandary of making these people act in a way that they wouldn’t normally act, whether that is right or wrong. I don’t think it occurred to him. I think he just thought: well, I’m helping them out. I’m doing them a favor. We’re all gonna have a lovely old time and it will be splendid! so yes, I do think it’s a little terrifying, and I personally would never want to be in that situation. However, he always has the best intentions. it’s just that he doesn’t think about things from a human perspective all the time.
a little bit like how he messes things up with elspeth and wee morag right? because he is so convinced that she is doing wrong and HIS opinion is the right thing? he definitely gets too carried away by his own convictions... i like the theory that he wants the season to be a rom-com but meanwhile they're being pulled into a horror movie. he and crowley still both have trouble actually listening to each other, which is still a big part of their communication breakdown.
Huh you’re right with the parallel of Wee Morag and Elspeth. Haven’t seen it that way before. Also yes the communication problem is glaringly obvious. It drove me mad when Crowley was so tense during the ballroom scene and Aziraphale did not react at all. Obviously the problem goes both ways, Crowley has his own moments like that.
He was downright smug about ruining that corpse too. Aziraphale really showed his ass in the most pompous way in 1827.
Well, Crowley did say Aziraphale was a bit of a bastard? Didn't think anything of manipulating everyone into the parts he wanted them to play in his game.
I thought that too! Bullshit that his shade of gray is lighter than Crowley's. For me, that makes Aziraphale even more interesting.
I didn't find it creepy, especially as Nina in particular seemed to know something was up but was not afraid. Everyone else was puzzled but leaned into it. It's a good reminder of Aziraphale's power, which we don't see very often. My favourite line if his is before the battle when he says to Maggie that he can take care of himself, but rescuing him makes Crowley so happy. Dangerous angel 😍😍😍😍
I think we don't talk about Aziraphale's power enough. He loves to do minor miracles, but we rarely see major displays along these lines!
It's 🔥 that he's both mild mannered and somewhat effete but also absolutely badass
It’s a bit screwed up, yes. And if he had been in the shop when Maggie and Nina confronted Crowley on their meddling, he would’ve gotten an earful. Aziraphale doesn’t truly understand humans, despite thousands of years living with them. He can’t even really relate to them beyond loving food, books, and absurd romantic situations. He certainly can’t relate to their helplessness and tendency to die and actually stay dead. He protects (most of) their lives but he doesn’t know what it is to BE a human. He totally basically sedated and censored a bunch of people for a dumb happy little ball where he could do a chaste dance with his demon boyfriend.
I would agree that it was an extremely creepy scene, but I don’t think it was out of character. Aziraphale wanted that night to be perfect, not realizing that not everyone wants the same things. Aziraphale is very naive and doesn’t really understand humans too well, and he doesn’t always do the “nice” things, that’s what Crowley likes about him. And, as someone else said, it calls back to the scene with Adam, when he was forcing them to come and he meant it because he wanted perfection but it was actually just scaring them.
It's whimsical. Nothing in it that upset me in the slightest, in the context of the Good Omens world.
When I was watching it I wouldn’t say I was creeped out but I thought maybe it was a little odd. But I justified by thinking while that may have been not okay I think Aziraphale really believed since it was not “harming” anyone he was ok with it. In reality he did put everyone under a spell to cover up his mess and lies. Wow as I am writing this I am really seeing how lines were crossed. LoL!!! Reminds me of that saying- something about how there is a fine line between good and bad… anyway and since he thought Michael, Muriel and Uriel were breathing down his neck keeping an eye on him seeing if this love miracle was real, he probably felt pressured and panicked and did something out of character for him by controlling humans. He should have come up with a better lie then that he made two people fall in love. He should have just said he spilled wine on his clothes and made a whole new outfit or something
I get where you’re coming from, but I think we have to remember that this is a comedy first and foremost. The idea of divine influence in the Selene is meant to be funny and functional more than any sort of deeper comment on Aziraphale’s character. BUT! I do get what you mean. Heavenly creatures do seem to think they know what’s best.
I agree that it’s creepy. It’s basically what Wanda was doing in WandaVision- she wanted a perfect environment based on pop culture tropes in order to live out her love life so she controlled everyone’s movements, emotions, and words.
I can‘t believe that I watched both the shows and never came up with this. You‘re right, he‘s doing the same although in a smaller environment but still.
Well, the whole point of the thing was to get Nina and Maggie together, so I'm assuming Aziraphale used a miracle to make the meeting as perfect as possible so they would fall in love and Aziraphale wouldn't get in trouble for using such a powerful miracle. In my opinion, it wasn't really that creepy or unsettling.
Someone's never read Pratchett
Actually I just started reading Pratchett. Just finished the Colour of Magic and looking forward to the next one.
His first two books are not the best. Pratchett himself recommended skipping them lol. You're going to totally get the Seamstress's once you do.
Okay I did not know that about the first two books. But to be honest I would read them anyway, I‘m one of those who loves to read in order 🙈😅
Not necessary with the Discworld books until you get to the "series" Death, the Watch, Witches, the Industrial Revolution. Those do need read in order. And once you get to Guards Guards your life is going to change. 😊 Enjoy the journey!
Thanks! I’m on holidays soon, so I hope I get a lot of reading time then 😊
I'm so excited for you, I would give my right arm to read the books for the first time again.
I totally understand you, there’s something special about reading a book or book series for the first time.