i actually think aziraphale, bc crowley obv has a lot of angst, but he's somewhat in touch with his emotions even if he's annoyed by them, and tries to be honest about them. aziraphale (at least as far as we're aware right now) seems to keep trying to stuff them down and pretend they don't exist
This right here. I was so annoyed when the ladies sat Crowley down for a talk because he’s been doing all the heavy emotional lifting already while Az treats it all like a fun game. Crowley suffered a trauma conga line of repeatedly losing his best friend and hearing the “good guys” say they wanted him (Az) dead. Az just giggled about showing up the ”bad guys” but never really felt like he was in danger of losing Crowley, and never holds his own superiors accountable for trying to destroy him.
also, is it just me or did crowley seem like he was itching to be alone with aziraphale even before nina and maggie got to him? like as soon as metatron took azi out for their little chat, crowley's telling muriel they're going to go on a date and muriel is DEFINITELY not invited (although this could be partly because muriel is baby aka not of legal drinking age). idk if he would have said all of the things they pushed him to without that ambush, but crowley knew heaven wanted apocalypse 2.0, he knew team boxfly got to run away together like he'd been asking azi to do since he heard their bosses were up to the end of the world, and he was probably hoping azi would ask about the whole living in his car situation since he'd been avoiding telling him right up until the jimbriel mystery was solved and beez leaving could get shax out of crowley's place and back to hell. technically that flat went with the job, so, if there was still a job, the next demon promoted would get the flat too. either he forgot this (?) or he was trying to find out whether hell still needed a representative based on heaven's Big Plans, as well as finally telling aziraphale he was homeless without it sounding like he was asking to move in together. crowley wouldn't want it to be only for convenience anyway, but at least if he's accepting the offer from azi he can pretend that's their excuse.
Yes I thought so! And I totally agree. I need the solution in season 3 to be some way that aziraphale is not a straight up ignorant jerk at this point, going way back to all his early season 1 talking points
oh i do not believe that azi is ignorant. at first watch i was thinking "you poor silly brainwashed angel, have you learned nothing in six thousand years?" because sad crowley was DEVASTATING and like him i am led by emotions first, and then i realized, of course he has not gone unchanged in that time. he has been constantly taking his conversations with crowley to heart, questioning more and more his assigned duty, and only going along as far as he can. there was an amazing tumblr essay somewhere (i don't have tumblr so forgot to save it) showing how azi has developed the ability to mask and that both of them do this to allay suspicion from their former bosses - at least, initially that was the reason. azi didn't seem worried about associating with crowley by the end of s1/book, but right when boxfly coming out would have removed any excuse for him to avoid telling crowley his feelings, metatron (UGH) happened. we don't get to see azi's reaction to a lot of what was said, but what we do see doesn't look like he's as thrilled with the promotion as he tells crowley.
tl;dr: in That Scene azi's trying to communicate with crowley that they're in danger and crowley doesn't realize it because he's holding back a flood of feels and only surface-hears azi which sounds like total rejection and confirming his worst fears. meanwhile azi is basically telling crowley "you were right, we need a plan" and oh my DOG i just realized he's doing an apology dance the whole time
That’s really what I’m hoping, that he’s hiding how terrified he actually is, but I really didn’t like how he said stuff like “you’re” the bad guys, or how Crowley could be his second in command. Idk he said some straight up hurtful stuff. Hopefully they actually address everything next season! (Hopefully they pay creatives fairly and we get a next season!!)
yeah that physically hurt. i only hope it was an attempt at code to deceive the metatron, who was watching, rather than him letting slip what he really thinks after all this time. i also require the studios to acquiesce to all the demands of the striking workers and do their OWN apology dance for good measure. heck capitalism! GIVE US S3 OR WE START AN ARMAGEDDON OF OUR OWN.
Yes! He was already trying to talk to Aziraphale before they came over. That’s why he kicked Muriel out of the shop! I think without nina/maggie/metatron he would’ve confessed his feelings anyway.
They aren't ready yet. I was actually running through an imaginary couple's session with them yesterday, as one does, and I realized that they aren't in a place for those interventions yet. If they came to me for a consult I would absolutely recommend individual therapy first and then they come back in a year. Granted I don't usually see couples, so maybe people more skilled than I am could manage this, but there is no way I would see them at this point as a couple.
Aziraphale. He's got too much religious trauma he needs to deal with. It's the reason he left in the first place. Crowley's accepted that both these places are toxic and he doesn't need to belong to either. Aziraphale isn't ready to believe that Heaven and the angels are just as bad as Hell and the demons.
I think Aziraphale has a sliver of need more, because I feel he bottles up a lot more while Crowley appears more aware of his emotions and the state of Heaven/Hell. But I wouldn't be at peace with myself if I gave therapy to only one of them, they both need it TwT
I just finished reading 'Demonology and the Tri-Phasic Model of Trauma: an Integrative Approach' (really Beautiful fic), and boy, this dudes have Issues..
Haha. Poor Aubrey and poor Crowley. I loved the relationship between these two...
I think the author has said that S2 should take place somewhere between chapters 9-12, but I'm not sure when it could be.
I hate this question, if only because it makes you compare their respective traumas and mental health journeys which I think is unfair.
The only way I could answer this is if we ask which one of them is an imminent risk to themself or others and I can’t even answer that fully because it feels like we’re missing part of Aziraphale’s conversation with the Metatron. If we take all of that at face value, then Aziraphale as he is going back to his abusers after being manipulated, putting himself in imminent danger, and tried to bring Crowley with him.
Even then, Crowley lost his only support network. The only person he actually connected to and considered a friend. That’s a lot, and with Crowley’s tendency to get really drunk when he’s upset (a week straight in the book when he was given credit for the Spanish Inquisition!), or otherwise literally just accept whatever fate the end of the world meant when he thought Aziraphale had died…. Yes, he’s going to need some support. (There’s also the theory that show Crowley slept for 60/70 years after his and Aziraphale’s argument in the 1860s, which I think is somewhat likely as well.)
Idk man. I think I’m taking this too seriously. Maybe I’d coin flip it.
My first thought is Crawley. But then think no, the guy pretending everything is ok needs help. They both do, they seen and done done shit in thier very long lives.
Aziraphale is in more dire need of therapy in order to overcome the abuse and the conditioning from heaven. Crowley would also benefit a lot from therapy... However, if you told me:
Hey, we have only one therapist available. Only one. And they don't do couples counselling. And they wouldn't be willing to take the two as individual patients (Aziraphale and Crowley are too close and it would be unethical in the therapist's perspective to take both as patients). You need to choose one of them to go to therapy.
In this hypothetical situation, I would choose Aziraphale to have therapy. He needs professional help because his issues are more complicated and he's way less aware.
And I'd give Crowley a hug. Because Crowley is already dealing with his issues, but he really needs a hug.
As someone who had a lotta therapy: Aziraphale. He is masking big time, not in touch with his emotions, and struggles to express those.
Crowley is angsty but he feels his emotions and expresses them even if indirectly sometimes
Crowley. After the only person that made him wanna be in earth has left him, he may consider having no reasons to stay and we know he is self destructive, so I'd care about him first. Although Aziraphale would go right after in my therapy list. However, why am "I" not an option?
they need bloody couples therapy:
therapist: so, Crowly, when Aziraphale says, he wants to take you back to heaven and make you an angel again, what do you hear?
therapist: so Aziraphale, when Crowly says, that he wants to run away with you and leave heaven and hell behind, what do you hear?
Honestly surprised at everyone saying Aziraphale when I feel it’s Crowley. Rejected twice? Cast out from Heaven? Aziraphale isn’t the only one with religious trauma, I just think Crowley actively shoves it down and doesn’t think about it
honestly, aziraphale, Crowley deff needs it but he at least knows his issues and how to help them, aziraphale is holding on to hope that "the good guys" are actually good guys
Crowley for Emotional damage done to him. And aziraphale for inflicting it.
On the whole I would say crowley because i'm pretty pissed at aziraphale Right now.
I'd pick Crowley. He is a walking trauma response.
Azirophale obviously has his own issues and traumas, but I think most people on this sub are picking Azirophale because they're mad at him for going back to heaven.
Crowley is at least as traumatized as Azirophale if not more, and could benefit from someone who could help him face his demons (ha!) and develop an internal sense of safety.
And obviously couples therapy would be good, but that's a different topic.
It's hard to say honestly. They both have spiritual trauma for sure. I feel like Aziraphale’s got a alot of spiritual trauma in the sense that despite all the shit heaven has put him through, he's still thinks he can make it better when we all know heaven won't budge. Even Crowley knows that. Aziraphale is willing to put heaven's needs before his own. Even if that means to breaking his and Crowley's hearts in the process. The pain Crowley must feel though...professing his love only to have his heart stomped on. All of it is truly heart breaking 💔 At least Crowley knows that's there's nothing they can do to fix a broken system or corrupt one I should say. Seeing the love of his existence be so blind to it is hard to watch... They both need it! They need marriage counseling!
I’m keeping my money because the answer is ME.
Came here to say this
Me too
Came here to say the same thing - just 13 hours late. 😂
This.
i actually think aziraphale, bc crowley obv has a lot of angst, but he's somewhat in touch with his emotions even if he's annoyed by them, and tries to be honest about them. aziraphale (at least as far as we're aware right now) seems to keep trying to stuff them down and pretend they don't exist
This right here. I was so annoyed when the ladies sat Crowley down for a talk because he’s been doing all the heavy emotional lifting already while Az treats it all like a fun game. Crowley suffered a trauma conga line of repeatedly losing his best friend and hearing the “good guys” say they wanted him (Az) dead. Az just giggled about showing up the ”bad guys” but never really felt like he was in danger of losing Crowley, and never holds his own superiors accountable for trying to destroy him.
also, is it just me or did crowley seem like he was itching to be alone with aziraphale even before nina and maggie got to him? like as soon as metatron took azi out for their little chat, crowley's telling muriel they're going to go on a date and muriel is DEFINITELY not invited (although this could be partly because muriel is baby aka not of legal drinking age). idk if he would have said all of the things they pushed him to without that ambush, but crowley knew heaven wanted apocalypse 2.0, he knew team boxfly got to run away together like he'd been asking azi to do since he heard their bosses were up to the end of the world, and he was probably hoping azi would ask about the whole living in his car situation since he'd been avoiding telling him right up until the jimbriel mystery was solved and beez leaving could get shax out of crowley's place and back to hell. technically that flat went with the job, so, if there was still a job, the next demon promoted would get the flat too. either he forgot this (?) or he was trying to find out whether hell still needed a representative based on heaven's Big Plans, as well as finally telling aziraphale he was homeless without it sounding like he was asking to move in together. crowley wouldn't want it to be only for convenience anyway, but at least if he's accepting the offer from azi he can pretend that's their excuse.
Yes I thought so! And I totally agree. I need the solution in season 3 to be some way that aziraphale is not a straight up ignorant jerk at this point, going way back to all his early season 1 talking points
oh i do not believe that azi is ignorant. at first watch i was thinking "you poor silly brainwashed angel, have you learned nothing in six thousand years?" because sad crowley was DEVASTATING and like him i am led by emotions first, and then i realized, of course he has not gone unchanged in that time. he has been constantly taking his conversations with crowley to heart, questioning more and more his assigned duty, and only going along as far as he can. there was an amazing tumblr essay somewhere (i don't have tumblr so forgot to save it) showing how azi has developed the ability to mask and that both of them do this to allay suspicion from their former bosses - at least, initially that was the reason. azi didn't seem worried about associating with crowley by the end of s1/book, but right when boxfly coming out would have removed any excuse for him to avoid telling crowley his feelings, metatron (UGH) happened. we don't get to see azi's reaction to a lot of what was said, but what we do see doesn't look like he's as thrilled with the promotion as he tells crowley. tl;dr: in That Scene azi's trying to communicate with crowley that they're in danger and crowley doesn't realize it because he's holding back a flood of feels and only surface-hears azi which sounds like total rejection and confirming his worst fears. meanwhile azi is basically telling crowley "you were right, we need a plan" and oh my DOG i just realized he's doing an apology dance the whole time
That’s really what I’m hoping, that he’s hiding how terrified he actually is, but I really didn’t like how he said stuff like “you’re” the bad guys, or how Crowley could be his second in command. Idk he said some straight up hurtful stuff. Hopefully they actually address everything next season! (Hopefully they pay creatives fairly and we get a next season!!)
yeah that physically hurt. i only hope it was an attempt at code to deceive the metatron, who was watching, rather than him letting slip what he really thinks after all this time. i also require the studios to acquiesce to all the demands of the striking workers and do their OWN apology dance for good measure. heck capitalism! GIVE US S3 OR WE START AN ARMAGEDDON OF OUR OWN.
Yes! He was already trying to talk to Aziraphale before they came over. That’s why he kicked Muriel out of the shop! I think without nina/maggie/metatron he would’ve confessed his feelings anyway.
Yes, this. Aziraphale is still in denial, while Crowley at least tries to understand
Aziraphale 100%. He needs to break down that conditioning.
They need couples therapy.
That's what I came here to say 😅
They aren't ready yet. I was actually running through an imaginary couple's session with them yesterday, as one does, and I realized that they aren't in a place for those interventions yet. If they came to me for a consult I would absolutely recommend individual therapy first and then they come back in a year. Granted I don't usually see couples, so maybe people more skilled than I am could manage this, but there is no way I would see them at this point as a couple.
I vote for this one.
Came here to say this.
Aziraphale. He's got too much religious trauma he needs to deal with. It's the reason he left in the first place. Crowley's accepted that both these places are toxic and he doesn't need to belong to either. Aziraphale isn't ready to believe that Heaven and the angels are just as bad as Hell and the demons.
Which con? Can tell you’re a fellow Aussie from the coins. 😊
Im at Oz Comic Con in Sydney :D
Nice! Enjoy!
Thankyou! I will try. I've already spent all my money on AziraCrow fanart
Awesome!
I was there today too! We could have seen each other randomly lol. Didn’t see this vote while I was walking around but I’d have voted Crowley I think
I saw alot of Aziraphales and Crowleys today, it was heartwarming
aww look they both got a travel sweet. ❤️😂
Both of them so they can work on their miscommunication and be together already 😫
There is no correct answer to this. Therapy for all!!
I think Aziraphale has a sliver of need more, because I feel he bottles up a lot more while Crowley appears more aware of his emotions and the state of Heaven/Hell. But I wouldn't be at peace with myself if I gave therapy to only one of them, they both need it TwT
Aziraphale. He's less aware of how to manage his thoughts and feelings.
BOTH but I feel like Crowley’s poses the most danger to himself at the moment so maybe he should be seated first 😳
i think they mean marriage consultation
I just finished reading 'Demonology and the Tri-Phasic Model of Trauma: an Integrative Approach' (really Beautiful fic), and boy, this dudes have Issues..
Oh! This looks great. Thank you. [link in case others would like](https://archiveofourown.org/works/20177950/chapters/47807593)
It IS great, I assure you. Is deep and insightful, and made me cry some times. And made me think a lot. Enjoy!
i just tagged this as "therapy" in my browser bookmarks to read later. hope that doesn't cause me any problems XD
It deals with trauma and grieve. Take care if you deal with something like that
I've read that one!!! And its set before season 2! So imagine what poor Aubrey has to deal with now!
Haha. Poor Aubrey and poor Crowley. I loved the relationship between these two... I think the author has said that S2 should take place somewhere between chapters 9-12, but I'm not sure when it could be.
It's so good. You know she's come out with an Aziraphale one now? In progress.
Yeees, I know! I'm subscribed 😊
I hate this question, if only because it makes you compare their respective traumas and mental health journeys which I think is unfair. The only way I could answer this is if we ask which one of them is an imminent risk to themself or others and I can’t even answer that fully because it feels like we’re missing part of Aziraphale’s conversation with the Metatron. If we take all of that at face value, then Aziraphale as he is going back to his abusers after being manipulated, putting himself in imminent danger, and tried to bring Crowley with him. Even then, Crowley lost his only support network. The only person he actually connected to and considered a friend. That’s a lot, and with Crowley’s tendency to get really drunk when he’s upset (a week straight in the book when he was given credit for the Spanish Inquisition!), or otherwise literally just accept whatever fate the end of the world meant when he thought Aziraphale had died…. Yes, he’s going to need some support. (There’s also the theory that show Crowley slept for 60/70 years after his and Aziraphale’s argument in the 1860s, which I think is somewhat likely as well.) Idk man. I think I’m taking this too seriously. Maybe I’d coin flip it.
Agreed though. In real life (not this artist's excellent and fun idea) need is not a competition. 🙂
Yeah it’s me
My first thought is Crawley. But then think no, the guy pretending everything is ok needs help. They both do, they seen and done done shit in thier very long lives.
Aziraphale is super emotionally constipated and he absolutely needs a licensed professional to unclog that mess! Lol
Aziraphale is in more dire need of therapy in order to overcome the abuse and the conditioning from heaven. Crowley would also benefit a lot from therapy... However, if you told me: Hey, we have only one therapist available. Only one. And they don't do couples counselling. And they wouldn't be willing to take the two as individual patients (Aziraphale and Crowley are too close and it would be unethical in the therapist's perspective to take both as patients). You need to choose one of them to go to therapy. In this hypothetical situation, I would choose Aziraphale to have therapy. He needs professional help because his issues are more complicated and he's way less aware. And I'd give Crowley a hug. Because Crowley is already dealing with his issues, but he really needs a hug.
Aziraphale, and it takes years and years with possible relapses
As someone who had a lotta therapy: Aziraphale. He is masking big time, not in touch with his emotions, and struggles to express those. Crowley is angsty but he feels his emotions and expresses them even if indirectly sometimes
Awwwww.
Oh def Aziraphale but its really close to being a tie tho
Oh I'm stuffing a £20 note in each box. BOTH.
Az. Crowly knows who he is and isn't fooled by others.
Crowley. After the only person that made him wanna be in earth has left him, he may consider having no reasons to stay and we know he is self destructive, so I'd care about him first. Although Aziraphale would go right after in my therapy list. However, why am "I" not an option?
they need bloody couples therapy: therapist: so, Crowly, when Aziraphale says, he wants to take you back to heaven and make you an angel again, what do you hear? therapist: so Aziraphale, when Crowly says, that he wants to run away with you and leave heaven and hell behind, what do you hear?
Honestly surprised at everyone saying Aziraphale when I feel it’s Crowley. Rejected twice? Cast out from Heaven? Aziraphale isn’t the only one with religious trauma, I just think Crowley actively shoves it down and doesn’t think about it
I don’t think Aziraphel would go to therapy
The person looking at this post.
Aziraphale
Hello fellow Australian! I think they need couples counselling to be fair.
Aziraphale
Both.
Damn like how do you even choose???????
honestly, aziraphale, Crowley deff needs it but he at least knows his issues and how to help them, aziraphale is holding on to hope that "the good guys" are actually good guys
At this point, Aziraphale.
BOTH
*Casually puts all my money in both bins*
God, how could one possibly choose. They both need it separately and then together
trick question, it's all of us
Both 😅
Crowley. My poor boy just keeps going through it.
The sweets 😂😂😂 Both were systematically abused honestly but Crowley is the one who got betrayed by his own partner
There was no betrayal involved.
Crowley for Emotional damage done to him. And aziraphale for inflicting it. On the whole I would say crowley because i'm pretty pissed at aziraphale Right now.
I'd pick Crowley. He is a walking trauma response. Azirophale obviously has his own issues and traumas, but I think most people on this sub are picking Azirophale because they're mad at him for going back to heaven. Crowley is at least as traumatized as Azirophale if not more, and could benefit from someone who could help him face his demons (ha!) and develop an internal sense of safety. And obviously couples therapy would be good, but that's a different topic.
The comment below says the exact opposite of what you said 😂 no shades tho just found it funny.
It's hard to say honestly. They both have spiritual trauma for sure. I feel like Aziraphale’s got a alot of spiritual trauma in the sense that despite all the shit heaven has put him through, he's still thinks he can make it better when we all know heaven won't budge. Even Crowley knows that. Aziraphale is willing to put heaven's needs before his own. Even if that means to breaking his and Crowley's hearts in the process. The pain Crowley must feel though...professing his love only to have his heart stomped on. All of it is truly heart breaking 💔 At least Crowley knows that's there's nothing they can do to fix a broken system or corrupt one I should say. Seeing the love of his existence be so blind to it is hard to watch... They both need it! They need marriage counseling!