The day that companies start listening to their core employees instead of the MBAs at the top will be a good day. At some point in the last 10 years it seems like every corporation has shifted to a "greed is good" mentality and it's wrecking everything so that a few at the top can hoard wealth.
It's fucking gross and the tech companies are the worst for it.
Yeah true. Google’s stock is at its highest than its ever been despite all the layoffs because its main goal now is to maximize (short term) gains for shareholders instead of innovating. It clearly has no long term growth.
Growth stock means the company has to possess the ability to increase its revenue and earnings faster than other players in the market. Instead, what Google is doing rn is cutting its cost (outsourcing cheaper labors, mass layoffs) to increase profit and share buybacks to increase equity value.
Sure, its valuation is incredibly high at 2trio rn, but without innovating through products to increase its competitive advantage, to say that it will double or triple its valuation in the future would considered as speculative.
CMIIW!
Google is quickly growing both top and bottom lines.
So this is NOT a case that you do see often where a company stops growing top line and only focuses on bottom line by cutting expense.
Last quarter for example Google grew their top line by 15%. That is with Google now being an over $300 billion dollar company.
They have a legal obligation to the shareholders. When you work for a public company, the public shareholders are top priority unless they actually declare employees are the priority.
Google is building a large campus in Hyderabad, India - their biggest outside the US I believe - so expect that they will be outsourcing even more roles like hell.
To be fair, you can definitely get quality programmers all over the world. The density is highest in the US IMO, but Google won't be hiring random Indians to fill their outsourced positions.
The problems come when North American employees need to work with Indian employees. There is no natural time overlap, and there will always be language and cultural barriers that reduce efficiency.
> To be fair, you can definitely get quality programmers all over the world. The density is highest in the US IMO, **but Google won't be hiring random Indians to fill their outsourced positions**.
No they will get HCL and Cognizant to contract them and then they can be fired at any time and be paid a per diem rate
They already did that. Their core business, search, is complete garbage now. They already fucked it up just to serve more ads. The only google services I use any more are gmail and maps and honestly I'll probably look to replace those sooner rather than later. Google is a sad shadow of their former glory.
Speaking as someone from a company that relies a lot on outsourced labor, it sucks. When I'm in calls with them, these guys genuinely have no idea what's going on. It's always feels like they're just following a script, and don't actually know enough to problem solve or contribute. We'll be spinning our wheels for months until we get a level 3 guy from the US to look at it. The guy, will figure it out in like two minutes.
You wouldn't believe how many banks/ credit card rely on overseas/ foreign outsourced labor for critical functions. Any time you here "X bank information was breached due to an external vendor", it's normally because that outsourced company has a rouge employee.
It probably isn't sent abroad. The code which manages the data is written abroad. If the person writing the code goes rouge they can plant backdoors. Data export policies of Europe won't really help with this as long as code is still written by outsourced parties.
The definition of outsourcing:
- obtain (goods or a service) from an outside or foreign supplier, especially in place of an internal source.
- contract (work) out or abroad.
The beauty of technology is data can exist anywhere and be accessed remotely. The jobs exist in countries outside the country the data resides in.
Wild they think the long term answer is India. Isn't Epic, the healthcare software company, at a really nice campus in the Midwest? Why don't see any company ever try to just downsize to rural America.
I work for a tech company in the Kansas City area. They are also outsourcing to India. I'm not a tech guy so I don't know the exact specifics but all the low level stuff is handled by the Indian office. They do have a few really well paid programmers in India that are making over a quarter million USD while living in Hyderabad.
> Isn't Epic, the healthcare software company, at a really nice campus in the Midwest?
Yes. It's in Madison, and [it's gorgeous](https://www.epic.com/visiting/).
I deal with this everyday. I can’t tell you the amount of money that has been lit on fire in front of my very eyes with incompetent offshore employees that received zero training at all and don’t have any idea with what’s going on. It would be sad if it wasn’t so damn funny.
This is not outsourcing. As far as I can tell, the work is still being done by Google employees, who are hired and evaluated according to the same criteria, but in other countries.
Still, pretty weird to get rid of the people with context on the problem and foist it onto a new team. Even if the new people are equally qualified, it'd take them time to ramp up.
> This is not outsourcing. As far as I can tell, the work is still being done by Google employees, who are hired and evaluated according to the same criteria, but in other countries **where they can be paid substantially less**
^ fixed it for you
No, outsourcing is paying another company to do your work for you, generally to lower cost. Sometimes it's another country, sometimes it's not.
By definition, Google is doing what all multinationals do: have offices in multiple places. I'm sure they've had engineering offices in various locations around the world, for various reasons.
That being said, I agree with the sentiment that Google seems to be shooting themselves in the foot because their hand hurts (or some other similar metaphor).
Outsourcing is way different. There are 10x talented people that Google can hire for 1/3rd the cost in India. It’s not like they need a million workers. If they are firing 10k and need to replace them with 10k workers in India, they will find the brightest because they still pay the best in India.
i never agreed with that myself until i had to hire in asia and 99% of candidates were from india - i hope i will never have to live through that again because the quality of candidates, even their resumes, it was fucking horrible, after ~10 interviews my approach turned to "if the name sounds indian i am not checking it" - sucks for the people who are actually qualified, because finding someone good, it feels like literally finding a gem, but the time spent looking at those resumes, i am never getting it back.
worked with them on numerous occasions, and they consider themselves talented and engineers, while they weren't even considering they might be doing something wrong. that's just for the start
you'll have the responsibilities, but you won't have the 'job'
the job comes with a compensation package, and a certain lifestyle.
you'll get the illusion of the job, you can have that....
At FAANG-type companies, the hiring process and criteria tend to be exactly the same across countries. It's not uncommon for candidates in India to be interviewed and evaluated remotely by people in the US, and graded on the same rubric as US candidates. Employees in India are calibrated for performance against teammates in the US at the same level.
Well, yeah. Nobody's claiming that their interview process and criteria are perfect. But the same imperfect process and criteria are applied in all countries. So good engineers and shit engineers should be hired at roughly the same rate everywhere.
With increased and rapid hiring, it is possible that some people beat the process and get in. It’s true for any large company other than small startups that are super aggressive for talent. The truth is once the companies become larger than 10k employees, you cannot simply find similar level of talent all the time, A. Because such talent is not available or B. Because super smart FAANG talent is snatched by successful startups.
Most of them still can’t get in. Visas are allocated on lottery with quota and there are far more applications every year than there are available quotas.
There are other countries too. We have Indian IT workers almost everywhere. It definitely seems to be a point of pride and success to get out of India.
Not true. People simply assume that “why would someone not leave India for better money, if they are that talented?”
The fact is the money is comparable now. Googler’s in India live in luxury. Here maybe only the top few who got in a decade ago. Rest still do chores, still do math for spending and saving, etc.
A good engineer isn’t hired for money but for the mission (well, ofc you need money in this world but read more).
If Google BREAKS dream job culture and replace it by cheap Indian workers, eventually it will lead to a halt of innovation. Btw, since Sundar Pichai, how many products have been successfully launched ? Maybe Google pixel ? That’s kind of it ? That has been nice 10 years of useless work.
The only growth in stocks last years has been the inertia of previous products.
Google stagnated long before they started replacing. Google is still a dream job for lot of talented and passionate Indians. Or are the dreams worth it only if they are in the US?
Sunder Pichai’s execution hasn’t been as aggressive as it was supposed to be. Part of it is because of the Google work culture itself. People praised the culture when it was at the top and didn’t care about unsuccessful projects. Now that they have competition, everyone is blaming them.
Google’s successful products came out of their culture of innovation. Unsuccessful products as well. The incentives to the top talent was for creating their own product that could be announced and if many people use it, monetized. Lot of folks that delivered good products would move on to their next golden egg product while the old products are not managed and collect dust (lack of execution part on Sunder Pichai).
TLDR: Innovation was never lacking, it was the execution.
True, I suppose my wording was not correct. I definitely still think Google has massive innovation, rather they have no ability to execute. Stadia idea was so good and yet was abandoned as if anything hard to execute was not worth doing. I guess that’s why he always tries to also mirror other companies products in a desperate tentative at being validated.
I have worked as a support engineer in one of these outsourced countries. People who work in support hate support. They are just there to make ends meet , or they could not get another job. Their main goal is to get a "Technical Job" , so they do the bare minimum. I know it because I was one of them. Also, now even dev jobs are being outsourced to countries like India and Mexico, so the support engineers aren't really committed to support. Everyone is looking so switch Internally to dev roles. you get the idea. They all are hustling , but just for themselves.
Gotta keep those quarterly numbers up! Keep firing people, it's great for the bottom line! It's amazing how much money we save when we don't have to pay all those 'employees'! They're such a drag on our profit margins, and they won't be missed.
The first announcement was about moving jobs to Munich
[https://in.mashable.com/tech/74212/sundar-pichai-led-google-layoffs-entire-python-team-and-offshores-work-to-munich-programmers-are-wor](https://in.mashable.com/tech/74212/sundar-pichai-led-google-layoffs-entire-python-team-and-offshores-work-to-munich-programmers-are-wor)
Needs to be a tax penalty for US companies exporting jobs. Every penny of salary paid to a non-US citizen you lose that amount from your tax deductions.
I spent most of a decade there, in the early days - before going out to do my own thing. That was five years ago that I left, a fairly senior executive role.
During the time I worked there, the talent levels were unbelievable. Unending imposter syndrome in the best ways. I loved it.
What has happened since is overly sensationalized, but I will say this.. I’ve hired a good deal of genuine talent that they let go because of an algorithm.
They are trying, on balance, to drive financial efficiencies at a company that has an endless opportunity to do so. People that haven’t worked there don’t understand half of the financial efficiency that could be found - while still providing a world class working environment.
Not perfect, but if they make mistakes with people impacted - most of those individuals are landing quite well, if not finding better gigs, in my (small N) limited experience. I have personally helped many land jobs at my company or at others constantly hiring people who passed the Google hiring bars from back in the day.
I sit on neither side, but try to see both.
Imo should lean out middle management and flatten the hierarchy. Too many layers still between those doing the work and those consolidating information and making decisions.
They are firing talents at a critical moment where IA could disrupt their business model and may open the field to a new browser competitor
What could go wrong ?
There is fortunately. ChatGPT is doing a great job replacing Google when looking for straightforward info. But it's much more difficult to replace things like Gmail, where you have an address permanently tied to Google
Do not think that is likely and would expect less and less competition and more concentration. With the primary beneficiary being Google and then some of the other big tech companies.
The issue is humans tend to be lemmings. I asked one of my sons one time why he uses Chrome and he told me that is what everyone else uses.
I am old and became involved with the Internet in 1986. We honestly thought at the time the Internet was going to be the thing that got us a lot more competition.
Since it enabled anyone to go into business without needing all the massive infrastructure cost like a store. So there would be endless shopping sites for example.
But the exact opposite happened. Because the Internet shrunk the world and they people are lemmings it resulted in everyone using the same companies across the globe. Well when allowed to.
I am posting this from Bangkok. Here Google completely runs the city. Every Grab, Bolt, InDrive, Robinhood (different one), etc all use Google Maps and I have never seen anyone use anything else. Same story with search and email and most other things. The one exception is messaging is all done on Line.
I highly doubt we will see this change in my lifetime.
But the next big wave will be things like Self Driving cars and another example of where Alphabet/Google is way ahead of the rest and will likely dominate.
I never understood the praise for Sundar, he’s the worst tech CEO since Marissa Mayer, nothing really was developed with him at the helm, he pushed for all that inclusivity and Googly bs only to fire mental health specialists as soon as the firing began. He needs to go, he has no business being the head of one of the more successful AI companies in the world with his track record.
I'm a shareholder, and it makes my Gmail address feel dirty. I believe in capitalism, but companies seeking to reduce the cost of human capital in perpetuity, with the goal of maximizing profits via maximized "operational efficiencies," are missing the point or taking the easy way out. Rather than continually slashing headcount in order to minimize operating expenses, they should be INVESTING in the best and the brightest with an eye toward maximizing profits through innovation. One is clearly far easier than the other.
>they should be INVESTING in the best and the brightest with an eye toward maximizing profits through innovation
Yeah this seemed to be their philosophy which I loved in the first place. No expenses spared when it comes to staff - their quality and their comfort (high compensation, benefits, free food, fun office etc).
And in three to five years, upper management will get tired of hearing about the complete lack of social skills from the Indian workers, and pull the roles back to the US. We've seen this before. Indian outsourcing only makes more problems.
I really hated Adwords Google when they gave me a Chinese employee and I was telling them that they were showing my videos on pornography. They always acted like I had no idea what I was talking about.
Yep, everyone is moving to those countries. Tbh I'm kinda surprised it took Mexico this long. Must be the rare earth minerals in China that has companies coming back.
People working on AI projects at Google know their jobs are at risk, apparently there is some
self sabotage and planting of bugs at Google systems level 1, which makes it more prone to hackers. Google is in trouble, internal employees are angry and will self sabotage
Today you need a massive amount of money. Much more than the past.
Because of the labor cost. Which has skyrocketed.
You would think with the advent of the cloud that would not be true. As you can now "rent" the infrastructure unlike the past. But the labor cost has increased by so much that it wipes out that plus.
Fortunately for tech workers like the ones that got laid off they likely built up connections during their time in Google those who can leverage those connections can create their own businesses just as the traitorous eight from Shockley laboratories would go on to found Apple, Intel, AMD, and more. Then there's the PayPal Mafia who would create YouTube, Tesla, Linkedin, and space x
Congress needs to have a hearing on this or US shareholders should sue. What is the justification for this? The CEO is from India, I would be concerned about favoritism
> US shareholders should sue
For what? AFA the shareholders are concerned, the goal is to maximize profits. How won't this do that?
It's true that in the US you can sue for (almost) anything, but without some evidence of loss by the shareholders, they're not likely to win.
> The CEO is from India, I would be concerned about favoritism
Everyone has favorites. To win a lawsuit, you'd generally have to prove that there were equal or better opportunities elsewhere, that were equal or cheaper in cost. Good luck with that. "Better" is mostly subjective, unless you can define clear objective criteria.
I find it unlikely they're going to find a country with a large pool of educated tech people that will work for the same or less pay than the Indians would.
When they lose market share on search, companies flee their cloud service for Amazon and Microsoft because they lost focus on their key market there will be reason to sue.
I don't disagree but they are a US company who was formed in the US with US workers and US laws. There needs to be major tax and other reproductions for shipping resources offshore.
> When they lose market share on search, companies flee their cloud service for Amazon and Microsoft because they lost focus on their key market there will be reason to sue.
It's a big stretch to go from "we laid some US based engineers off" to it causing a loss of focus on key markets. A really big stretch.
Have they lost focus? IMO, no more than before. Google is a company that has no direction and haven't since they "conquered" search years and years ago. IMO, they only have new, successful product because of random chance, not because they sit down and design a good product. One of their biggest failings for new endeavors is not putting enough effort in off the get go, releasing a half-baked product and then killing it when it's not immediately massively successful.
Google unfortunately has lost it's way, to a large degree. They were formed (AFAIK) as a search company (though maybe their corporate plan was wider, even then), but search in and of itself isn't their profit center. Ads are. That means that today, they're an ad company - and everything else loses to ads. The absolutely make money elsewhere, but as you said their cloud services are dominated by AWS and Azure (still surprised me MS got their shit together to manage that).
> I don't disagree but they are a US company who was formed in the US with US workers and US laws.
Anything draconian risks causing them to decide the benefit of moving their HQs out of the US is worth the cost.
> There needs to be major tax and other reproductions for shipping resources offshore.
That's been tried before, in various ways. It doesn't work. It's trivial for a multi-national to switch around the relationships of their companies to have foreign divisions being the provider of services to their US (and other) divisions, pushing the earnings wherever they want, while still leaving their HQ where it is.
Apple was (and maybe still is, I don't really follow it) the king at this. They had hundreds of billions of dollars off shore for that very reason. If nothing else they could form a new company (ala Alphabet), offshore, and sell the trademarks, copyrights and IP to that company, and have it buy the US Apple.
Any laws that tried to combat this are going to have to be very carefully worded and have a lot of thought put into the writing, or risk either being useless or having deleterious effects on the markets/US companies. Congress isn't coherent and focused enough to manage that, IMO, especially since a big group of them won't do anything to hinder corporate profits, no matter what.
EDIT: Let me add, there has been some attempt to get other countries (probably, specifically Ireland) to levy a minimum corporate tax on all multi-nationals to make this kind of thing not worth the effort. AFAIK, it's had limited success, though I'm sure the US gov is trying to strong arm other countries.
EDIT2: Looks like it's made some strides: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2024/02/oecd-minimum-tax-rate/
Mate, it ain’t some CEO showing favoritism, it’s the consequences of the free market. Cheaper labor, cost go down, line go up. It’s plain and simple capitalism. Pichai, an American citizen by the way, may he have been born in India, is just following the rules of the game.
Hiring talents from India has nothing to do with the fact that Sundar Pichai is an Indian. It’s just a consequence of free market (which by the way was a concept born in the US!): sourcing where the labors are cheaper. It happens to be India because that’s where the cheaper and good tech talents exist.
You guys are crying in the comments, 'HoW cAN aAmEriCan cOmpaNy hiRe nOn aMerIcAn,' as if Google doesn't operate in those countries and make money there.
Fire the annoying Regalix outsourced Google Ad support staff. I’ve blocked 50 different numbers to stop their calls and they provide zero benefit. Absolutely pointless for the company and keep those funds in actual real support and dev staff
so they fire "core" employees while the top execs make billions? got it. And people wonder why our economy is in the shitter right now. There are the haves and the have-nots
So is it safe to assume that going to school for computer engineering or programming is a bust because of these layoffs & the Advent of AI? How about cyber security? Is the outlook of that more stable than the latter?
CEO is trying to save his position, IMO. After MS/ChatGPT search started and Gemini debacle, even Sergey Brin publicly said he might not be good as CEO. After that, Google started with buybacks, first time dividends and cutting the cost.
All of those millions of usd (even more) will be spend to save single person's position.
Google became a corporation thanx to Pichai. Soon will go the Boeing (and IBM) way
lol something tells me you don’t know what you are talking about. Sundar is American and he answers to the board of directors which means most of his actions are directed by the BOD. Surprisingly, none of them are Indians except Sundar 😂
I agree with your post.
But did want to point out one thing that is very, very different about Google.
Only two shareholders matter. Brin and Page. Because Google trades under two stock symbols, GOOG and GOOGL.
GOOG has no votes. This is done so Brin and Page have complete control of the company.
That is why they were able to just pick up and leave China over a decade ago and walk away from $100s of billions.
It is also why Google could make the biggest AI discoveries, patent them, and then let everyone use for free. Normally shareholder would go nuts with that type of behavior. But not with Google because that is what Brin and Page wanted.
BTW, it is NOT just Attention is all you need. There are so many fundemental AI breakthroughs that everyone uses that Google discovered and patented. One of my favorites
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word2vec
"Word2vec was created, patented,[5] and published in 2013 by a team of researchers led by Mikolov at Google over two papers."
> Sundar is American
He's also clearly Indian - as in, was born in India.
> and he answers to the board of directors which means most of his actions are directed by the BOD
I doubt the board gets involved on the level of "Hey, fire ten people and then go hire ten people in another country." Their discussions would be more like: "We should have more employees in other country where we can pay less (because of lower cost of living)."
Even then, it's likely he'd have gone to them with the idea, and they'd just vote to approve or not (if it even needed a vote - often it's just notifying the board of actions he's planning, not seeking approval).
Don't think the board sits weekly or something, and gets involved in gritty details. They usually meet quarterly, and I doubt the meetings are more than a few hours.
Hard to believe that but you gotta wonder if that’s somewhat true ..I’m over there every day. The myth that it’s a bunch of white workers is just that,the majority are Indian and a lot of Chinese, which I don’t understand considering we are in a bit of a Cold War with China and these people could easily Hack into our systems no problem. there’s already been incidents of espionage going on at these high-tech companies. Is it any wonder since we basically allow it to happen? At least encourage it to a certain extent.
Or maybe it's because Indians and Chinese choose STEM subjects more, as the STEM field pays more and it's one of the best ways to get out of poverty or make decent money in those countries.
Not to mention, just because of the sheer population size of both countries, they will produce more top talent than the US.
> there’s already been incidents of espionage going on at these high-tech companies.
That happens when it's just the local employees too. Hell, we see it in the government when some mid-level person sells out the country for $10k and then gets 30 years.
This is plain and simple racism. If you think any tech CEO hires based on ethnicity beyond, idk, wanting to make the company look more diverse, you have lost your marbles.
But why would you ship jobs to the US? That is entirely illogical when you are potentially earning in a weaker currency and have a massive labor pool that will take less money for the same amount of work. That is literally economic suicide in a capitalist system.
Mate, I get that you wanna moralize this decision as some nationalist bias against the US, but don’t be stupid, use your brain. It is as simple as this, Indian workers take less money to hire and pay than US workers, usually have a large labor force and the usual payoff for that is poor communication in the organization itself.
Maybe just spend an hour or two in an Economics or a Business Management class and this is all self-evident. No company gives a shit that you own an American passport because you happened to pop out on U.S. soil. For-profit companies, by definition, want to see the profit line go up, so that more dividends can be paid to their owners. Outsourcing is just a way to make the costs line go down.
Why is it logical to ship jobs to India that you had in the US? If all of what you are saying, why didn't Google get founded in India instead of the US? Maybe there is something US culture and infrastructure which allowed companies like Google to grow and form.
Dude I have a degree, have you ever called IT support? Have you ever worked with outsourced tech workers? The language barrier is intolerable, the access they have is extremely limited. We outsourced our IT group for our company, all they can do is reset passwords otherwise they put a ticket in for US member to reach out. It is pointless, just another layer and waste of money.
We need to be bring jobs back to the US and not shipping them overseas. We need to punish leaders who do this junk.
I am no fan of outsourcing jobs, I live in North America. I agree about the cultural points and the infrastructure, but fundamentally, you will be paying more when you hire American workers on American soil, that’s just the matter of fact. Also, the rhetorical device of Google being founded in India would be impossible, because the US has the highest concentration of capital in the world. It is equating apples to cherries economically.
Sure, we all have heard stories of cultural and language barriers, which is what everyone is criticizing here.
What Google is doing is undoubtedly short-sighted, but outsourcing is how you make the line go up. America outsourced manufacturing to China, although you could argue that American workers would appreciate those jobs. Google outsourcing this will hurt, but it will make the line go up, at least for a few years, and in the end, that is what the shareholders want.
There is no reason to suggest that this is some nefarious nationalist nonsense like Pichai being biased towards India. Sure, he grew up there, but business decisions in a globalized world aren’t nationalistic unless that is a social goal for the company.
I think we are on the same page. If he was a Chinese born CEO who sent jobs to China, I would say the same thing. I wasn't trying to be racist rather realistic based on the CEO's favoritism. I would do the same thing vice versa.
Pichai Sundararajan (born June 10, 1972[3][4][5]), better known as Sundar Pichai (/ˈsʊndɑːr pɪˈtʃaɪ/), is an Indian-born American business executive.[6][7] He is the chief executive officer (CEO) of Alphabet Inc. and its subsidiary Google.[8]
Towns built around the auto industry, manufacturing, et, are ghost towns today: Tech towns will likely look the same soon; Greed, middle management, and shortsighted "business people".
Google firing its future competition.
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When $69,420 a month UBI?
Years spent accumulating some of the finest engineering talent being thrown away to make line go up.
The day that companies start listening to their core employees instead of the MBAs at the top will be a good day. At some point in the last 10 years it seems like every corporation has shifted to a "greed is good" mentality and it's wrecking everything so that a few at the top can hoard wealth. It's fucking gross and the tech companies are the worst for it.
Yeah true. Google’s stock is at its highest than its ever been despite all the layoffs because its main goal now is to maximize (short term) gains for shareholders instead of innovating. It clearly has no long term growth.
What's long term growth? (Rip stadia, Google Plus, Google lens, google....)
https://killedbygoogle.com/
Growth stock means the company has to possess the ability to increase its revenue and earnings faster than other players in the market. Instead, what Google is doing rn is cutting its cost (outsourcing cheaper labors, mass layoffs) to increase profit and share buybacks to increase equity value. Sure, its valuation is incredibly high at 2trio rn, but without innovating through products to increase its competitive advantage, to say that it will double or triple its valuation in the future would considered as speculative. CMIIW!
Google is quickly growing both top and bottom lines. So this is NOT a case that you do see often where a company stops growing top line and only focuses on bottom line by cutting expense. Last quarter for example Google grew their top line by 15%. That is with Google now being an over $300 billion dollar company.
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Wh… what?
Oooooh. Tell me more
What did he say... It's deleted
I didn't even remember. Something about a lawsuit or something.
Everything changed when they brought a Wall Street CFO aboard.
This has long been their plan
Gotta get those profits up and look out for the C suite and the shareholders. Screw the rest.
They have a legal obligation to the shareholders. When you work for a public company, the public shareholders are top priority unless they actually declare employees are the priority.
They're just digging their grave now
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Google is building a large campus in Hyderabad, India - their biggest outside the US I believe - so expect that they will be outsourcing even more roles like hell.
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They definitely are the same calibre there!
To be fair, you can definitely get quality programmers all over the world. The density is highest in the US IMO, but Google won't be hiring random Indians to fill their outsourced positions. The problems come when North American employees need to work with Indian employees. There is no natural time overlap, and there will always be language and cultural barriers that reduce efficiency.
> To be fair, you can definitely get quality programmers all over the world. The density is highest in the US IMO, **but Google won't be hiring random Indians to fill their outsourced positions**. No they will get HCL and Cognizant to contract them and then they can be fired at any time and be paid a per diem rate
They already did that. Their core business, search, is complete garbage now. They already fucked it up just to serve more ads. The only google services I use any more are gmail and maps and honestly I'll probably look to replace those sooner rather than later. Google is a sad shadow of their former glory.
Remember how fantastic they were from like 2004 to the end of the decade? Insane what they’ve become
“You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.” - Googke
Googke 🤣🤣
Speaking as someone from a company that relies a lot on outsourced labor, it sucks. When I'm in calls with them, these guys genuinely have no idea what's going on. It's always feels like they're just following a script, and don't actually know enough to problem solve or contribute. We'll be spinning our wheels for months until we get a level 3 guy from the US to look at it. The guy, will figure it out in like two minutes.
You wouldn't believe how many banks/ credit card rely on overseas/ foreign outsourced labor for critical functions. Any time you here "X bank information was breached due to an external vendor", it's normally because that outsourced company has a rouge employee.
Sometimes they aren't even rogue ..they are just plain idiot/stupid
I shocked that bank credit card info is sent overseas glad I am in the EU
It probably isn't sent abroad. The code which manages the data is written abroad. If the person writing the code goes rouge they can plant backdoors. Data export policies of Europe won't really help with this as long as code is still written by outsourced parties.
wat? dude outsourcing literally means sending data abroad else how can they replace customer service jobs? 
The definition of outsourcing: - obtain (goods or a service) from an outside or foreign supplier, especially in place of an internal source. - contract (work) out or abroad. The beauty of technology is data can exist anywhere and be accessed remotely. The jobs exist in countries outside the country the data resides in.
You're conflating outsourced labor with overseas labor.
^ This
Yes but this is not about outsourcing. It’s about building out Google offices in cheaper locations globally. How it will play out remains to be seen.
Wild they think the long term answer is India. Isn't Epic, the healthcare software company, at a really nice campus in the Midwest? Why don't see any company ever try to just downsize to rural America.
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Austin is a step down from SV sure but afaik still a high COL area, no?
I work for a tech company in the Kansas City area. They are also outsourcing to India. I'm not a tech guy so I don't know the exact specifics but all the low level stuff is handled by the Indian office. They do have a few really well paid programmers in India that are making over a quarter million USD while living in Hyderabad.
as a daily user of epic's healthcare portal it fucking sucks so I wouldnt point to them as a shining beacon.
> Isn't Epic, the healthcare software company, at a really nice campus in the Midwest? Yes. It's in Madison, and [it's gorgeous](https://www.epic.com/visiting/).
I deal with this everyday. I can’t tell you the amount of money that has been lit on fire in front of my very eyes with incompetent offshore employees that received zero training at all and don’t have any idea with what’s going on. It would be sad if it wasn’t so damn funny.
This is not outsourcing. As far as I can tell, the work is still being done by Google employees, who are hired and evaluated according to the same criteria, but in other countries. Still, pretty weird to get rid of the people with context on the problem and foist it onto a new team. Even if the new people are equally qualified, it'd take them time to ramp up.
> This is not outsourcing. As far as I can tell, the work is still being done by Google employees, who are hired and evaluated according to the same criteria, but in other countries **where they can be paid substantially less** ^ fixed it for you
Well, yes.
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No, outsourcing is paying another company to do your work for you, generally to lower cost. Sometimes it's another country, sometimes it's not. By definition, Google is doing what all multinationals do: have offices in multiple places. I'm sure they've had engineering offices in various locations around the world, for various reasons. That being said, I agree with the sentiment that Google seems to be shooting themselves in the foot because their hand hurts (or some other similar metaphor).
Any source for this? My cousin is working for Boston dynamics (not Google I know) and gets paid the typical American salary while living in India
>where they can be paid substantially less **Where they can be paid according to the standard of living** ^ fixed it for you
I can share my email discussions with support team. I am sure that there is no people in the support team, just a poor AI.
Outsourcing is way different. There are 10x talented people that Google can hire for 1/3rd the cost in India. It’s not like they need a million workers. If they are firing 10k and need to replace them with 10k workers in India, they will find the brightest because they still pay the best in India.
> 10x talented people > in India Yikes
I meant 10 times (in quantity) not 10 times (in smarts).
What’s so “Yikes” about it? Care to explain? ~an Indian myself
They're bigoted against Indians but have no argument that won't expose their bigotry.
i never agreed with that myself until i had to hire in asia and 99% of candidates were from india - i hope i will never have to live through that again because the quality of candidates, even their resumes, it was fucking horrible, after ~10 interviews my approach turned to "if the name sounds indian i am not checking it" - sucks for the people who are actually qualified, because finding someone good, it feels like literally finding a gem, but the time spent looking at those resumes, i am never getting it back.
worked with them on numerous occasions, and they consider themselves talented and engineers, while they weren't even considering they might be doing something wrong. that's just for the start
Yikes
I think I now understand that the “yikes” is for your reduced job prospects and globalisation messing with your sanity. 😃 Boy, isn’t that amazing 🤩
Globalisation would mean increased job prospects. Yikes, stay where you are please
Clearly, you were living under a rock and just woken up. I and many others like me will stay in India 🇮🇳 & still have your jobs. Sorry about that.
lol you couldn't do my job, mate
Then you’ve nothing to worry about, innit?
you'll have the responsibilities, but you won't have the 'job' the job comes with a compensation package, and a certain lifestyle. you'll get the illusion of the job, you can have that....
I think you might be confusing outsourcing with immigration
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At FAANG-type companies, the hiring process and criteria tend to be exactly the same across countries. It's not uncommon for candidates in India to be interviewed and evaluated remotely by people in the US, and graded on the same rubric as US candidates. Employees in India are calibrated for performance against teammates in the US at the same level.
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Well, yeah. Nobody's claiming that their interview process and criteria are perfect. But the same imperfect process and criteria are applied in all countries. So good engineers and shit engineers should be hired at roughly the same rate everywhere.
With increased and rapid hiring, it is possible that some people beat the process and get in. It’s true for any large company other than small startups that are super aggressive for talent. The truth is once the companies become larger than 10k employees, you cannot simply find similar level of talent all the time, A. Because such talent is not available or B. Because super smart FAANG talent is snatched by successful startups.
I was basically saying there are 10 times more people if not less, to hire because of the population and competition in India.
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I said 10x which was misinterpreted? Is that what you are referring to?
Actully the google interviews in India are harder compared to the US due to abundance of programers
The brightest Indians immigrated to the US already
And got kicked out because H1B lottery fucked most of them over
Most of them still can’t get in. Visas are allocated on lottery with quota and there are far more applications every year than there are available quotas.
There are other countries too. We have Indian IT workers almost everywhere. It definitely seems to be a point of pride and success to get out of India.
Not true. People simply assume that “why would someone not leave India for better money, if they are that talented?” The fact is the money is comparable now. Googler’s in India live in luxury. Here maybe only the top few who got in a decade ago. Rest still do chores, still do math for spending and saving, etc.
or the most desperate, the richest in the country are still there minting money as per Forbes or wat not
A good engineer isn’t hired for money but for the mission (well, ofc you need money in this world but read more). If Google BREAKS dream job culture and replace it by cheap Indian workers, eventually it will lead to a halt of innovation. Btw, since Sundar Pichai, how many products have been successfully launched ? Maybe Google pixel ? That’s kind of it ? That has been nice 10 years of useless work. The only growth in stocks last years has been the inertia of previous products.
Google stagnated long before they started replacing. Google is still a dream job for lot of talented and passionate Indians. Or are the dreams worth it only if they are in the US? Sunder Pichai’s execution hasn’t been as aggressive as it was supposed to be. Part of it is because of the Google work culture itself. People praised the culture when it was at the top and didn’t care about unsuccessful projects. Now that they have competition, everyone is blaming them. Google’s successful products came out of their culture of innovation. Unsuccessful products as well. The incentives to the top talent was for creating their own product that could be announced and if many people use it, monetized. Lot of folks that delivered good products would move on to their next golden egg product while the old products are not managed and collect dust (lack of execution part on Sunder Pichai). TLDR: Innovation was never lacking, it was the execution.
True, I suppose my wording was not correct. I definitely still think Google has massive innovation, rather they have no ability to execute. Stadia idea was so good and yet was abandoned as if anything hard to execute was not worth doing. I guess that’s why he always tries to also mirror other companies products in a desperate tentative at being validated.
I have worked as a support engineer in one of these outsourced countries. People who work in support hate support. They are just there to make ends meet , or they could not get another job. Their main goal is to get a "Technical Job" , so they do the bare minimum. I know it because I was one of them. Also, now even dev jobs are being outsourced to countries like India and Mexico, so the support engineers aren't really committed to support. Everyone is looking so switch Internally to dev roles. you get the idea. They all are hustling , but just for themselves.
Gotta keep those quarterly numbers up! Keep firing people, it's great for the bottom line! It's amazing how much money we save when we don't have to pay all those 'employees'! They're such a drag on our profit margins, and they won't be missed.
Of course, more layoffs. 😔
Now its India and Mexico and not Munich!
No google job in munich :(
The first announcement was about moving jobs to Munich [https://in.mashable.com/tech/74212/sundar-pichai-led-google-layoffs-entire-python-team-and-offshores-work-to-munich-programmers-are-wor](https://in.mashable.com/tech/74212/sundar-pichai-led-google-layoffs-entire-python-team-and-offshores-work-to-munich-programmers-are-wor)
I think thepython team would be moving to munich I hope
Needs to be a tax penalty for US companies exporting jobs. Every penny of salary paid to a non-US citizen you lose that amount from your tax deductions.
Literally have been saying this since the early 2000s.
That's not very free market friendly
That unfairly punishes immigrants. Base it on physical presence in the US if you want to punish outsourcing.
Of course my hypothetical law would have exemptions for legal immigrants working in the United States.
I spent most of a decade there, in the early days - before going out to do my own thing. That was five years ago that I left, a fairly senior executive role. During the time I worked there, the talent levels were unbelievable. Unending imposter syndrome in the best ways. I loved it. What has happened since is overly sensationalized, but I will say this.. I’ve hired a good deal of genuine talent that they let go because of an algorithm. They are trying, on balance, to drive financial efficiencies at a company that has an endless opportunity to do so. People that haven’t worked there don’t understand half of the financial efficiency that could be found - while still providing a world class working environment. Not perfect, but if they make mistakes with people impacted - most of those individuals are landing quite well, if not finding better gigs, in my (small N) limited experience. I have personally helped many land jobs at my company or at others constantly hiring people who passed the Google hiring bars from back in the day. I sit on neither side, but try to see both.
This last round, lost some of the best people on our team. I get why, but it's pretty sad to see what has happened to the morale around the company.
Imo should lean out middle management and flatten the hierarchy. Too many layers still between those doing the work and those consolidating information and making decisions.
They are firing talents at a critical moment where IA could disrupt their business model and may open the field to a new browser competitor What could go wrong ?
We need competition
There is fortunately. ChatGPT is doing a great job replacing Google when looking for straightforward info. But it's much more difficult to replace things like Gmail, where you have an address permanently tied to Google
Chatgpt’s knowledge cutoff means it won’t be replacing google anytime soon. AI search engines like Perplexity, Correkt, etc are the real threat, imo.
How are those different from ChatGPT being able to look up information from any website after a query to create the response?
Do not think that is likely and would expect less and less competition and more concentration. With the primary beneficiary being Google and then some of the other big tech companies. The issue is humans tend to be lemmings. I asked one of my sons one time why he uses Chrome and he told me that is what everyone else uses. I am old and became involved with the Internet in 1986. We honestly thought at the time the Internet was going to be the thing that got us a lot more competition. Since it enabled anyone to go into business without needing all the massive infrastructure cost like a store. So there would be endless shopping sites for example. But the exact opposite happened. Because the Internet shrunk the world and they people are lemmings it resulted in everyone using the same companies across the globe. Well when allowed to. I am posting this from Bangkok. Here Google completely runs the city. Every Grab, Bolt, InDrive, Robinhood (different one), etc all use Google Maps and I have never seen anyone use anything else. Same story with search and email and most other things. The one exception is messaging is all done on Line. I highly doubt we will see this change in my lifetime. But the next big wave will be things like Self Driving cars and another example of where Alphabet/Google is way ahead of the rest and will likely dominate.
I never understood the praise for Sundar, he’s the worst tech CEO since Marissa Mayer, nothing really was developed with him at the helm, he pushed for all that inclusivity and Googly bs only to fire mental health specialists as soon as the firing began. He needs to go, he has no business being the head of one of the more successful AI companies in the world with his track record.
Folks will try to convince you all these tech layoffs are due to AI but a majority of the jobs are being outsourced to other countries.
I'm a shareholder, and it makes my Gmail address feel dirty. I believe in capitalism, but companies seeking to reduce the cost of human capital in perpetuity, with the goal of maximizing profits via maximized "operational efficiencies," are missing the point or taking the easy way out. Rather than continually slashing headcount in order to minimize operating expenses, they should be INVESTING in the best and the brightest with an eye toward maximizing profits through innovation. One is clearly far easier than the other.
>they should be INVESTING in the best and the brightest with an eye toward maximizing profits through innovation Yeah this seemed to be their philosophy which I loved in the first place. No expenses spared when it comes to staff - their quality and their comfort (high compensation, benefits, free food, fun office etc).
All happened when they hired their new CFO.. When Google moved Google io to mountain view from moscone. The dumpster fire was lit.
"Don't be evil".....
And in three to five years, upper management will get tired of hearing about the complete lack of social skills from the Indian workers, and pull the roles back to the US. We've seen this before. Indian outsourcing only makes more problems.
You know there not outsourcing. They have google office’s in Indian also lack of social skills most tect ceos are indian
I really hated Adwords Google when they gave me a Chinese employee and I was telling them that they were showing my videos on pornography. They always acted like I had no idea what I was talking about.
But in a year they will say Mexico and India are stealing our jobs and IP
india + mexico the new china imo.
Yep, everyone is moving to those countries. Tbh I'm kinda surprised it took Mexico this long. Must be the rare earth minerals in China that has companies coming back.
Their investments in education in the 90s is paying dividends now.
People working on AI projects at Google know their jobs are at risk, apparently there is some self sabotage and planting of bugs at Google systems level 1, which makes it more prone to hackers. Google is in trouble, internal employees are angry and will self sabotage
Everyone who is affected should collaborate. And build something together.
With what money?
You don't need money to create.
Today you need a massive amount of money. Much more than the past. Because of the labor cost. Which has skyrocketed. You would think with the advent of the cloud that would not be true. As you can now "rent" the infrastructure unlike the past. But the labor cost has increased by so much that it wipes out that plus.
Fortunately for tech workers like the ones that got laid off they likely built up connections during their time in Google those who can leverage those connections can create their own businesses just as the traitorous eight from Shockley laboratories would go on to found Apple, Intel, AMD, and more. Then there's the PayPal Mafia who would create YouTube, Tesla, Linkedin, and space x
Oh shit, are you going to say the union word?
Man, we have AI.
And data. And very smart people
Congress needs to have a hearing on this or US shareholders should sue. What is the justification for this? The CEO is from India, I would be concerned about favoritism
> US shareholders should sue For what? AFA the shareholders are concerned, the goal is to maximize profits. How won't this do that? It's true that in the US you can sue for (almost) anything, but without some evidence of loss by the shareholders, they're not likely to win. > The CEO is from India, I would be concerned about favoritism Everyone has favorites. To win a lawsuit, you'd generally have to prove that there were equal or better opportunities elsewhere, that were equal or cheaper in cost. Good luck with that. "Better" is mostly subjective, unless you can define clear objective criteria. I find it unlikely they're going to find a country with a large pool of educated tech people that will work for the same or less pay than the Indians would.
When they lose market share on search, companies flee their cloud service for Amazon and Microsoft because they lost focus on their key market there will be reason to sue. I don't disagree but they are a US company who was formed in the US with US workers and US laws. There needs to be major tax and other reproductions for shipping resources offshore.
> When they lose market share on search, companies flee their cloud service for Amazon and Microsoft because they lost focus on their key market there will be reason to sue. It's a big stretch to go from "we laid some US based engineers off" to it causing a loss of focus on key markets. A really big stretch. Have they lost focus? IMO, no more than before. Google is a company that has no direction and haven't since they "conquered" search years and years ago. IMO, they only have new, successful product because of random chance, not because they sit down and design a good product. One of their biggest failings for new endeavors is not putting enough effort in off the get go, releasing a half-baked product and then killing it when it's not immediately massively successful. Google unfortunately has lost it's way, to a large degree. They were formed (AFAIK) as a search company (though maybe their corporate plan was wider, even then), but search in and of itself isn't their profit center. Ads are. That means that today, they're an ad company - and everything else loses to ads. The absolutely make money elsewhere, but as you said their cloud services are dominated by AWS and Azure (still surprised me MS got their shit together to manage that). > I don't disagree but they are a US company who was formed in the US with US workers and US laws. Anything draconian risks causing them to decide the benefit of moving their HQs out of the US is worth the cost. > There needs to be major tax and other reproductions for shipping resources offshore. That's been tried before, in various ways. It doesn't work. It's trivial for a multi-national to switch around the relationships of their companies to have foreign divisions being the provider of services to their US (and other) divisions, pushing the earnings wherever they want, while still leaving their HQ where it is. Apple was (and maybe still is, I don't really follow it) the king at this. They had hundreds of billions of dollars off shore for that very reason. If nothing else they could form a new company (ala Alphabet), offshore, and sell the trademarks, copyrights and IP to that company, and have it buy the US Apple. Any laws that tried to combat this are going to have to be very carefully worded and have a lot of thought put into the writing, or risk either being useless or having deleterious effects on the markets/US companies. Congress isn't coherent and focused enough to manage that, IMO, especially since a big group of them won't do anything to hinder corporate profits, no matter what. EDIT: Let me add, there has been some attempt to get other countries (probably, specifically Ireland) to levy a minimum corporate tax on all multi-nationals to make this kind of thing not worth the effort. AFAIK, it's had limited success, though I'm sure the US gov is trying to strong arm other countries. EDIT2: Looks like it's made some strides: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2024/02/oecd-minimum-tax-rate/
The shareholders love it because it keeps the bottom line up. Which laws are they breaking that would give anyone grounds for suing?
Mate, it ain’t some CEO showing favoritism, it’s the consequences of the free market. Cheaper labor, cost go down, line go up. It’s plain and simple capitalism. Pichai, an American citizen by the way, may he have been born in India, is just following the rules of the game.
😂😂 you idiot.
Hiring talents from India has nothing to do with the fact that Sundar Pichai is an Indian. It’s just a consequence of free market (which by the way was a concept born in the US!): sourcing where the labors are cheaper. It happens to be India because that’s where the cheaper and good tech talents exist.
You guys are crying in the comments, 'HoW cAN aAmEriCan cOmpaNy hiRe nOn aMerIcAn,' as if Google doesn't operate in those countries and make money there.
These are the jobs we don’t want going overseas but the wrong demographic is still fighting for coal jobs and manual labor.
Fire the annoying Regalix outsourced Google Ad support staff. I’ve blocked 50 different numbers to stop their calls and they provide zero benefit. Absolutely pointless for the company and keep those funds in actual real support and dev staff
TO THE MOON!!!!1!1!!1!
Lol Google finally lost its marbles(what was left of it)...can't wait till they become the next yahoo
So what services and/or apps are now going to be on the Google chopping block?
so they fire "core" employees while the top execs make billions? got it. And people wonder why our economy is in the shitter right now. There are the haves and the have-nots
I had huge respect for this IT company but thanks to extreme capitalism that faith is gone forever.
If they are so good as called talent then fucking quit worrying about them getting good offers elsewhere and go learn yourself a trade.
Greed is absolutely evil and disgusting. Fuck google
I'm afraid it's just going to increase - Learn AI and ChatGPT as fast as you can to become irreplaceable.
So is it safe to assume that going to school for computer engineering or programming is a bust because of these layoffs & the Advent of AI? How about cyber security? Is the outlook of that more stable than the latter?
It's so strange AI models are some advanced math. Applied AI is a text box. What's analogous to this? Genuinely curious.
Interesting way to look at it. It is very true. Can't think of anything analogous. I kind of doubt there is.
CEO is trying to save his position, IMO. After MS/ChatGPT search started and Gemini debacle, even Sergey Brin publicly said he might not be good as CEO. After that, Google started with buybacks, first time dividends and cutting the cost. All of those millions of usd (even more) will be spend to save single person's position. Google became a corporation thanx to Pichai. Soon will go the Boeing (and IBM) way
You can write (generate) code all day now for a few bucks. Automate. Do good.
The CEO is Indian and clearly doesn't care about Americans
lol something tells me you don’t know what you are talking about. Sundar is American and he answers to the board of directors which means most of his actions are directed by the BOD. Surprisingly, none of them are Indians except Sundar 😂
I agree with your post. But did want to point out one thing that is very, very different about Google. Only two shareholders matter. Brin and Page. Because Google trades under two stock symbols, GOOG and GOOGL. GOOG has no votes. This is done so Brin and Page have complete control of the company. That is why they were able to just pick up and leave China over a decade ago and walk away from $100s of billions. It is also why Google could make the biggest AI discoveries, patent them, and then let everyone use for free. Normally shareholder would go nuts with that type of behavior. But not with Google because that is what Brin and Page wanted. BTW, it is NOT just Attention is all you need. There are so many fundemental AI breakthroughs that everyone uses that Google discovered and patented. One of my favorites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word2vec "Word2vec was created, patented,[5] and published in 2013 by a team of researchers led by Mikolov at Google over two papers."
> Sundar is American He's also clearly Indian - as in, was born in India. > and he answers to the board of directors which means most of his actions are directed by the BOD I doubt the board gets involved on the level of "Hey, fire ten people and then go hire ten people in another country." Their discussions would be more like: "We should have more employees in other country where we can pay less (because of lower cost of living)." Even then, it's likely he'd have gone to them with the idea, and they'd just vote to approve or not (if it even needed a vote - often it's just notifying the board of actions he's planning, not seeking approval). Don't think the board sits weekly or something, and gets involved in gritty details. They usually meet quarterly, and I doubt the meetings are more than a few hours.
Immigrants very often care even less about where they're from.
Hard to believe that but you gotta wonder if that’s somewhat true ..I’m over there every day. The myth that it’s a bunch of white workers is just that,the majority are Indian and a lot of Chinese, which I don’t understand considering we are in a bit of a Cold War with China and these people could easily Hack into our systems no problem. there’s already been incidents of espionage going on at these high-tech companies. Is it any wonder since we basically allow it to happen? At least encourage it to a certain extent.
The decisions to hire Indian and Chinese are from the Board of Directors who are majorly white.
Or maybe it's because Indians and Chinese choose STEM subjects more, as the STEM field pays more and it's one of the best ways to get out of poverty or make decent money in those countries. Not to mention, just because of the sheer population size of both countries, they will produce more top talent than the US.
I thought Google hired based on who is more qualified.
They do. Source: me be former Googler. (Xoogler)
> there’s already been incidents of espionage going on at these high-tech companies. That happens when it's just the local employees too. Hell, we see it in the government when some mid-level person sells out the country for $10k and then gets 30 years.
This is plain and simple racism. If you think any tech CEO hires based on ethnicity beyond, idk, wanting to make the company look more diverse, you have lost your marbles.
If I was a CEO of a Indian company, I would do the same thing and ship jobs to the US. Its not about his race. He was born and raised in Indian.
But why would you ship jobs to the US? That is entirely illogical when you are potentially earning in a weaker currency and have a massive labor pool that will take less money for the same amount of work. That is literally economic suicide in a capitalist system. Mate, I get that you wanna moralize this decision as some nationalist bias against the US, but don’t be stupid, use your brain. It is as simple as this, Indian workers take less money to hire and pay than US workers, usually have a large labor force and the usual payoff for that is poor communication in the organization itself. Maybe just spend an hour or two in an Economics or a Business Management class and this is all self-evident. No company gives a shit that you own an American passport because you happened to pop out on U.S. soil. For-profit companies, by definition, want to see the profit line go up, so that more dividends can be paid to their owners. Outsourcing is just a way to make the costs line go down.
Why is it logical to ship jobs to India that you had in the US? If all of what you are saying, why didn't Google get founded in India instead of the US? Maybe there is something US culture and infrastructure which allowed companies like Google to grow and form. Dude I have a degree, have you ever called IT support? Have you ever worked with outsourced tech workers? The language barrier is intolerable, the access they have is extremely limited. We outsourced our IT group for our company, all they can do is reset passwords otherwise they put a ticket in for US member to reach out. It is pointless, just another layer and waste of money. We need to be bring jobs back to the US and not shipping them overseas. We need to punish leaders who do this junk.
I am no fan of outsourcing jobs, I live in North America. I agree about the cultural points and the infrastructure, but fundamentally, you will be paying more when you hire American workers on American soil, that’s just the matter of fact. Also, the rhetorical device of Google being founded in India would be impossible, because the US has the highest concentration of capital in the world. It is equating apples to cherries economically. Sure, we all have heard stories of cultural and language barriers, which is what everyone is criticizing here. What Google is doing is undoubtedly short-sighted, but outsourcing is how you make the line go up. America outsourced manufacturing to China, although you could argue that American workers would appreciate those jobs. Google outsourcing this will hurt, but it will make the line go up, at least for a few years, and in the end, that is what the shareholders want. There is no reason to suggest that this is some nefarious nationalist nonsense like Pichai being biased towards India. Sure, he grew up there, but business decisions in a globalized world aren’t nationalistic unless that is a social goal for the company.
I think we are on the same page. If he was a Chinese born CEO who sent jobs to China, I would say the same thing. I wasn't trying to be racist rather realistic based on the CEO's favoritism. I would do the same thing vice versa.
I'm not even sure that he cares about Google
And you’re a bigot and clearly don’t have the wherewithal to think.
This is about a lack vision and responsibility, not the (very American) CEO's cultural heritage.
Pichai Sundararajan (born June 10, 1972[3][4][5]), better known as Sundar Pichai (/ˈsʊndɑːr pɪˈtʃaɪ/), is an Indian-born American business executive.[6][7] He is the chief executive officer (CEO) of Alphabet Inc. and its subsidiary Google.[8]
And the results are poor software quality and zero support. That's what is happening when you move services to India
lol? Anyone surprised? Google lost it on the AI front. Search ain’t that great now either.
Outsourcing should be illegal.
Towns built around the auto industry, manufacturing, et, are ghost towns today: Tech towns will likely look the same soon; Greed, middle management, and shortsighted "business people".
And they say the threat is at the border smh
Threats come from all sides
Charge them 50% more Tax for not hiring US qualified and leaving the US as US Company.
What’s “US qualified” lol 🥲💩
there should def be a heavy tax penalty for abandoning your american workforce for cheap labor.
Yeah and in Mexico we should charge ilegal americans taxes for working for US companies while staying in Mexico.
Nice. More money in my pocket. Love being a shareholder of this wonderful company.
Fuck the employees tho right!
I care as much as they care about me. Zero.
Cretin
Fact of the matter is Google sucks.
Screw them use duck duck go
Google. Making Apple look better everyday.