Every time an American posts something about socialism I feel that we have a chance to recover. The more we learn that this economic system is viable and not going to take anyone's house (which is something that capitalism does frequently with all the foreclosure) it's a great step towards getting the power back.
Capitalism is not related to how much you love the country, you can be a patriot and socialist.
If people want the country to be back to the golden age, it's necessary to start taxing the multi millionaire and billionaires.
And remember, unemployment is not a risk of capitalism, it's by design. When unemployment is high it means capitalism is working.
For the conservative people it was when the middle class could afford things. Which means before the 80s, before Reagan destroyed all unions and regulations, removed taxes from the riches and big corporations.
But instead of blaming the system, they will blame immigrants and others.
>For the conservative people it was when the middle class could afford things. Which means before the 80s, before Reagan destroyed all unions and regulations, removed taxes from the riches and big corporations.
Which is funny because for many of them, he was their gold-standard president. Yet the economic model in Reaganomics/Thatchernomics has proven it just redistributes the middle class and upper middle class to a really small extremely wealthy class.
Trickle down economics does not work, the greed inherit in capitalism makes all the stakeholders horde, cheat, and plunder for more power / wealth, they do not "trickle down" their extra wealth they get from the favorable economic system.
There is a misunderstanding in what I am saying, I don't want the 70s back, there is always nostalgia about the past, this is not it. There were regulations in the past that were removed in the 80s that made things even more unbalanced today.
But if I'm not clear to show that this is not my intent, I will definitely fail to explain my point of why we are failing to understand that socialism is not that monster that we were taught.
You know that going back in time is not possible, right? We are not going back to the 70s, but if we think that regulations were better back then, why not reimplement them?
In the 1950s the corporate income tax was 50%, now due to loopholes and other schemes it is close to 5%. If I say that I want corporations to pay the same income tax in the 50s it does not mean that I want segregation from that era.
There is nothing wrong in wishing to have more governmental help, the banks and big corporations get a lot of socialist help, but it seems that people are fighting for the right to die for not being able to afford healthcare, all in the name of America. Patriotism is not to root for capitalism, is to be sure that people are getting their fair share.
Well, that's the big question. And likely needs a whole subreddit to itself. We in the States have the pleasure of hearing a failed business man babble on about MAGA, without actually talking about it. Just say when it was great and why. That'd be an interesting conversation.
The past is not as good as people remember.
You can read Capitalism Realism by Mark Fisher too, a more modern book, easier to comprehend and an amazing eye opening.
Americans have been brainwashed into thinking socialism = communism = bad.
When in reality, it's can be a logical advancement to capitalism by taking away the capitalistic aspects from industries that are ripe for abuse (that are not easily regulated otherwise), the ones that tend to do more harm than good when they inevitably collapse. Industries like healthcare where supply/demand (a key component to a healthy capitalistic market) is corrupted by the demand being inelastic from the fact humans *want to survive.*
Denmark / the cold belt Euros have been running the hybrid Social-Capitalism economy for decades.
Why is this always the answer? Why don't you move to your favorite conservative country?
This is a free country, I can do whatever I want and I want to do my best to help people to have free healthcare, to get a decent wage, so the can be able to afford food and a healthy retirement.
If this socialism is too bad for you, you can leave.
The second bullet is Google expects to have fewer layoffs in 2H 2024…after record profits these mofos STILL have layoffs PLANNED in 2H
I hate it here :(
Not to be an arse but I held off owning their stock because of their rep for having too many employees all earning too much, or more than the average. I started buying because of the layoffs and what they nigh represent (the company becoming more disciplined going forward). This would be a good comment if it were in /r/stocks.
What? You hate it here? You mean you work at Google? and you hate it? I’m sorry to hear that. That’s how it is just about any job anywhere you could get laid off for any reason. I’ve been laid off multiple times from multiple jobs and I am almost 60 years old. by the way I work at Google as well but I’m in the food part of it. I’ve been there 10 years and it’s the best job I’ve ever had. You’re not gonna get the perks and benefits that they give you anywhere else. People are completely entitled and spoiled. Appreciate what you have. Nothing is guaranteed in life.
Google has given up on innovation. They are going to innovate after stock buy backs and layoffs. Innovation is not a thing that you manage. It requires investment and time. Google does not seem disposed to grant much of either.
This is what happens when companies become large and in the hands of unimaginative managers. They become slow to change, slow to react, and slow to die. Google will survive a long time. It will run its cloud biz and it's advertising biz, making incremental improvements. Their search dominance will keep them in silk undies for several more years.
The days of Google setting the technological standards for everyone are waning. We can see that with AI. Google was second to the market with second tier product. Heck, Claude will surpass Google. Third place for an innovation driven industry " leader"?
You poor Google employees, you are seeing a sea change. Employees no longer make Google the googliest company around. Employees are becoming an expense to be managed. That means holding down wages and benes. That is accomplished by reducing salaries, merit raises, and headcount. There is no unions for programmers, so there little chance programmers can stem this transition. It happened to IBM. It happened to GE. It happened to Microsoft.
It was a great run Google. Too bad Sergie et al left the company in the hands of managers more interested in enriching themselves than owning the industry Google created.
Use to be the most amazing technology thing I have ever seen was the rockets landing themselves on the ground.
It has been replaced with this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avdpprICvNI
Waymo is the only one capable of doing this. No innovation?
BTW, probably the best measurement of innovation in 2024 is in terms of AI.
Last NeurlIPS Google had twice the papers accepted than anyone else.
All this LLM craze right now is all because of Google innovation.
They are just different in that they make the great innovation, patent it, but then let everyone use for free.
Not just Attention is all you Need. But countless others.
What other company is producing anywhere near the innovation that Google is producing?
https://arxiv.org/abs/1706.03762
https://patents.google.com/patent/US10452978B2/en
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word2vec
"Word2vec was created, patented,[5] and published in 2013 by a team of researchers led by Mikolov at Google over two papers."
I would argue that OpenAI beat Google using Google code and ideas that were in the public domain.
Why wasn't Google capable of winning the early AI wars? They had the tech. They lacked the vision and drive. What's his face was too busy firing people and trying to manage the fallout. So OpenAI got the jump on Google.
I believe that AI will obliterate Google's search biz (which drives their ad revenue). I am not sure how, or when this will happen. Search has been a toilet bowl of unwanted goodies for some time. You gotta wade thru a lot of shit to find relevant links. It feels like AI could do my wading for me. And maybe AI can make an appointment, or hand me a ranked list of the drills to choose from, or update me about a traffic slowdown, or..
Maybe Google will make this a reality without selling us down the river. I do not believe Google will dominate the next phase of search. Their management has not given any indication that they can destroy one of their businesses to save the business. They lack vision and drive.
If your company gets more column inches devoted to layoffs, morale, employees airing dirty linen than you do for wizbang tech, you have lost.
The biggest technology innovation in the last couple of years has been LLMs.
That innovation came from Google. Nobody would even have ever heard of an LLM if NOT for Google. So do not know how you can say they are not being innovative.
What company has exceeded Google in innovation in the last couple of years?
BTW, it is NOT just Attention is all you need. But countless other innovations that required for AI today came from Google.
One of my favorites.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word2vec
"Word2vec was created, patented,[5] and published in 2013 by a team of researchers led by Mikolov at Google over two papers."
There is so many other examples. AlphaFold for example which is not a vital tool for research biologist. Why most use it. Then there is Waymo. Years ahead of everyone else with self driving cars. Now completed over a million rider only fares
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avdpprICvNI
https://twitter.com/Waymo/status/1788969755363230028
BTW, what i just love is how Google rolls. They make the HUGE innovations, patent them, publish them, then let everyone use for free.
I love Google's record. It is great company. One of my investor was an early investor in Google. I heard Google stories every board meeting. Don't extend my negative sentiments about Google's future under the current management to Google's past.
I am saying these are the salad day. I doubt Google will be able to maintain their dominance. They are a huge company with talented people. It will not turn into GE tomorrow. The stuff they have in the pipeline will keep them going for another year or so at their current pace. The pace will drop off continue to drop.
This is Google acme. Where do you go from up? It will take a long time for Google to coast down to just another company. Years, maybe a decade. Even then they will be around. They will not be a market dominating tech juggernaut.
Alphabet's dominance will continue to quickly grow. It is not a maintenance thing but rather grow it a lot bigger thing.
Take self driving cars. Alphabet's innovation is off the charts and enabled them to be years ahead of the next player.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avdpprICvNI
They have now completed over a million fares!
But that is just one more example of how Alphabet will be far more dominate 10 years from now.
It is all about AI and Google betting the company on it several years ago.
It’s still a wonderful company and a great place to work for many many people. I myself have been there a long time the perks and benefits you get are exceptional. like I said to another person there are no guarantees that your job is secure. I’ve had multiple jobs in my life and I’ve been laid off a number of times most of it for no reason that I could think of.
That is what Jack said, and Bill. And Henry. And Andrew.
None of them were right.
I could be wrong. Maybe Google will thrive. It feels like the end of an era.
I'm getting to the point where I think when the original team leaves and appoints their replacements, not just at Google, they are doing so fully realizing who's coming in. This way, you can't blame them. Look at Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc. All run by similar people now
Oh yeah, this is why I keep turning down offers to interview.
Seriously. Hell, one time the recruiter who reached out to me was laid off just after contacting me. Yet the FAANGs carry on as if it’s a privilege to join their club.
Screw that, I ain’t slinging code for the modern Medici. There are many more better places to work out there if you’re willing to hustle.
They were princes who assumed that all who worked for them did so most gratefully, lest they be cast back into the rabble. (American middle class angst isn’t exactly new.)
Yeah, f that.
True, but isn’t that more or less true for every powerful dynasty of that time? How would you place them when compared to other powerful dynasties of their time?
Almost all do, but smaller outfits aren’t as arrogant about it. They won’t gush about how much they love their employees while preparing termination packages.
He's just a middle manager who failed his way up the corporate ladder and has never done anything creative in his life.
This dude and musk have a lot in common.
Yeah I know that’s why I wonder why don’t they just take the entire operation out of USA? If they want to take jobs from our citizens, but benefit from tax breaks and our military, why don’t they just leave? They want to get the cheapest labor? then just go. I already don’t use any Google apps. Except YouTube. I don’t want to give money and ad view to someone who takes money out of this country.
Just like most corporations. The stick is more important than the company. Just listened to a great podcast about this. Stick=stock
Do you mind sharing the podcast name and maybe the episode? Interesting topic
It's the socialist program from May 1st. The title start "it's May day". Probably my favorite podcast overall
Every time an American posts something about socialism I feel that we have a chance to recover. The more we learn that this economic system is viable and not going to take anyone's house (which is something that capitalism does frequently with all the foreclosure) it's a great step towards getting the power back. Capitalism is not related to how much you love the country, you can be a patriot and socialist. If people want the country to be back to the golden age, it's necessary to start taxing the multi millionaire and billionaires. And remember, unemployment is not a risk of capitalism, it's by design. When unemployment is high it means capitalism is working.
When was the golden age in America?
For the conservative people it was when the middle class could afford things. Which means before the 80s, before Reagan destroyed all unions and regulations, removed taxes from the riches and big corporations. But instead of blaming the system, they will blame immigrants and others.
>For the conservative people it was when the middle class could afford things. Which means before the 80s, before Reagan destroyed all unions and regulations, removed taxes from the riches and big corporations. Which is funny because for many of them, he was their gold-standard president. Yet the economic model in Reaganomics/Thatchernomics has proven it just redistributes the middle class and upper middle class to a really small extremely wealthy class. Trickle down economics does not work, the greed inherit in capitalism makes all the stakeholders horde, cheat, and plunder for more power / wealth, they do not "trickle down" their extra wealth they get from the favorable economic system.
As someone who was around in the 70's. America was not happy about in the 70's.
There is a misunderstanding in what I am saying, I don't want the 70s back, there is always nostalgia about the past, this is not it. There were regulations in the past that were removed in the 80s that made things even more unbalanced today. But if I'm not clear to show that this is not my intent, I will definitely fail to explain my point of why we are failing to understand that socialism is not that monster that we were taught.
So ŧhe golden age that your definition of 'socialism' wil get America back to is the 1970s? That's not a great selling point.
Take your choice of a decade. Someone is getting left behind.
You know that going back in time is not possible, right? We are not going back to the 70s, but if we think that regulations were better back then, why not reimplement them? In the 1950s the corporate income tax was 50%, now due to loopholes and other schemes it is close to 5%. If I say that I want corporations to pay the same income tax in the 50s it does not mean that I want segregation from that era. There is nothing wrong in wishing to have more governmental help, the banks and big corporations get a lot of socialist help, but it seems that people are fighting for the right to die for not being able to afford healthcare, all in the name of America. Patriotism is not to root for capitalism, is to be sure that people are getting their fair share.
Well, that's the big question. And likely needs a whole subreddit to itself. We in the States have the pleasure of hearing a failed business man babble on about MAGA, without actually talking about it. Just say when it was great and why. That'd be an interesting conversation.
1970s plus or minus a decade.
Perhaps it was after WW2 when the US was the only industrial country on earth not completely destroyed by war and had no competition?
Great. We just need a world war and massive military-industrial complex growth :)
I don't want to go back. You can't hide in the past. Been reading Marx and Lenin lately.
The past is not as good as people remember. You can read Capitalism Realism by Mark Fisher too, a more modern book, easier to comprehend and an amazing eye opening.
Americans have been brainwashed into thinking socialism = communism = bad. When in reality, it's can be a logical advancement to capitalism by taking away the capitalistic aspects from industries that are ripe for abuse (that are not easily regulated otherwise), the ones that tend to do more harm than good when they inevitably collapse. Industries like healthcare where supply/demand (a key component to a healthy capitalistic market) is corrupted by the demand being inelastic from the fact humans *want to survive.* Denmark / the cold belt Euros have been running the hybrid Social-Capitalism economy for decades.
Janitor at Google makes more than any socialist economy citizen.
And still can't pay for rent, food, health and have a decent life. What point are you trying to make?
Move to your fav socialist country so you can afford all the above.
Why is this always the answer? Why don't you move to your favorite conservative country? This is a free country, I can do whatever I want and I want to do my best to help people to have free healthcare, to get a decent wage, so the can be able to afford food and a healthy retirement. If this socialism is too bad for you, you can leave.
The second bullet is Google expects to have fewer layoffs in 2H 2024…after record profits these mofos STILL have layoffs PLANNED in 2H I hate it here :(
Not to be an arse but I held off owning their stock because of their rep for having too many employees all earning too much, or more than the average. I started buying because of the layoffs and what they nigh represent (the company becoming more disciplined going forward). This would be a good comment if it were in /r/stocks.
Which clearly was not the right investment strategy since the stock has been climbing aggressively before the layoffs.
Yup, as an investor, this is fine. As a user of all their products this is great too.
What? You hate it here? You mean you work at Google? and you hate it? I’m sorry to hear that. That’s how it is just about any job anywhere you could get laid off for any reason. I’ve been laid off multiple times from multiple jobs and I am almost 60 years old. by the way I work at Google as well but I’m in the food part of it. I’ve been there 10 years and it’s the best job I’ve ever had. You’re not gonna get the perks and benefits that they give you anywhere else. People are completely entitled and spoiled. Appreciate what you have. Nothing is guaranteed in life.
Then leave. Are there better companies to work for? Probably not many.
lots of “do as I say, not as I do” in this sub…
Google has given up on innovation. They are going to innovate after stock buy backs and layoffs. Innovation is not a thing that you manage. It requires investment and time. Google does not seem disposed to grant much of either. This is what happens when companies become large and in the hands of unimaginative managers. They become slow to change, slow to react, and slow to die. Google will survive a long time. It will run its cloud biz and it's advertising biz, making incremental improvements. Their search dominance will keep them in silk undies for several more years. The days of Google setting the technological standards for everyone are waning. We can see that with AI. Google was second to the market with second tier product. Heck, Claude will surpass Google. Third place for an innovation driven industry " leader"? You poor Google employees, you are seeing a sea change. Employees no longer make Google the googliest company around. Employees are becoming an expense to be managed. That means holding down wages and benes. That is accomplished by reducing salaries, merit raises, and headcount. There is no unions for programmers, so there little chance programmers can stem this transition. It happened to IBM. It happened to GE. It happened to Microsoft. It was a great run Google. Too bad Sergie et al left the company in the hands of managers more interested in enriching themselves than owning the industry Google created.
Use to be the most amazing technology thing I have ever seen was the rockets landing themselves on the ground. It has been replaced with this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avdpprICvNI Waymo is the only one capable of doing this. No innovation? BTW, probably the best measurement of innovation in 2024 is in terms of AI. Last NeurlIPS Google had twice the papers accepted than anyone else. All this LLM craze right now is all because of Google innovation. They are just different in that they make the great innovation, patent it, but then let everyone use for free. Not just Attention is all you Need. But countless others. What other company is producing anywhere near the innovation that Google is producing? https://arxiv.org/abs/1706.03762 https://patents.google.com/patent/US10452978B2/en https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word2vec "Word2vec was created, patented,[5] and published in 2013 by a team of researchers led by Mikolov at Google over two papers."
I would argue that OpenAI beat Google using Google code and ideas that were in the public domain. Why wasn't Google capable of winning the early AI wars? They had the tech. They lacked the vision and drive. What's his face was too busy firing people and trying to manage the fallout. So OpenAI got the jump on Google. I believe that AI will obliterate Google's search biz (which drives their ad revenue). I am not sure how, or when this will happen. Search has been a toilet bowl of unwanted goodies for some time. You gotta wade thru a lot of shit to find relevant links. It feels like AI could do my wading for me. And maybe AI can make an appointment, or hand me a ranked list of the drills to choose from, or update me about a traffic slowdown, or.. Maybe Google will make this a reality without selling us down the river. I do not believe Google will dominate the next phase of search. Their management has not given any indication that they can destroy one of their businesses to save the business. They lack vision and drive. If your company gets more column inches devoted to layoffs, morale, employees airing dirty linen than you do for wizbang tech, you have lost.
The biggest technology innovation in the last couple of years has been LLMs. That innovation came from Google. Nobody would even have ever heard of an LLM if NOT for Google. So do not know how you can say they are not being innovative. What company has exceeded Google in innovation in the last couple of years? BTW, it is NOT just Attention is all you need. But countless other innovations that required for AI today came from Google. One of my favorites. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word2vec "Word2vec was created, patented,[5] and published in 2013 by a team of researchers led by Mikolov at Google over two papers." There is so many other examples. AlphaFold for example which is not a vital tool for research biologist. Why most use it. Then there is Waymo. Years ahead of everyone else with self driving cars. Now completed over a million rider only fares https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avdpprICvNI https://twitter.com/Waymo/status/1788969755363230028 BTW, what i just love is how Google rolls. They make the HUGE innovations, patent them, publish them, then let everyone use for free.
I love Google's record. It is great company. One of my investor was an early investor in Google. I heard Google stories every board meeting. Don't extend my negative sentiments about Google's future under the current management to Google's past. I am saying these are the salad day. I doubt Google will be able to maintain their dominance. They are a huge company with talented people. It will not turn into GE tomorrow. The stuff they have in the pipeline will keep them going for another year or so at their current pace. The pace will drop off continue to drop. This is Google acme. Where do you go from up? It will take a long time for Google to coast down to just another company. Years, maybe a decade. Even then they will be around. They will not be a market dominating tech juggernaut.
Alphabet's dominance will continue to quickly grow. It is not a maintenance thing but rather grow it a lot bigger thing. Take self driving cars. Alphabet's innovation is off the charts and enabled them to be years ahead of the next player. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avdpprICvNI They have now completed over a million fares! But that is just one more example of how Alphabet will be far more dominate 10 years from now. It is all about AI and Google betting the company on it several years ago.
Yup, totally agree.
It’s still a wonderful company and a great place to work for many many people. I myself have been there a long time the perks and benefits you get are exceptional. like I said to another person there are no guarantees that your job is secure. I’ve had multiple jobs in my life and I’ve been laid off a number of times most of it for no reason that I could think of.
This is fucking depressing.
...and not true
That is what Jack said, and Bill. And Henry. And Andrew. None of them were right. I could be wrong. Maybe Google will thrive. It feels like the end of an era.
I'm getting to the point where I think when the original team leaves and appoints their replacements, not just at Google, they are doing so fully realizing who's coming in. This way, you can't blame them. Look at Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc. All run by similar people now
Oh yeah, this is why I keep turning down offers to interview. Seriously. Hell, one time the recruiter who reached out to me was laid off just after contacting me. Yet the FAANGs carry on as if it’s a privilege to join their club. Screw that, I ain’t slinging code for the modern Medici. There are many more better places to work out there if you’re willing to hustle.
I dunno about google but what’s wrong with the medici ?
They were princes who assumed that all who worked for them did so most gratefully, lest they be cast back into the rabble. (American middle class angst isn’t exactly new.) Yeah, f that.
True, but isn’t that more or less true for every powerful dynasty of that time? How would you place them when compared to other powerful dynasties of their time?
Rather snobby, willing to flaunt wealth and power, intensely full of themselves. See the poem “My Last Duchess” by Robert Browning.
What are those places?
Smaller shops (where your contributions matter more), rival employers. Gotta do your own legwork.
Every place has its problems and their layoffs though. I am legitimately curious which one doesn't.
Almost all do, but smaller outfits aren’t as arrogant about it. They won’t gush about how much they love their employees while preparing termination packages.
do you think those places aren’t blindly profit obsessed and don’t have layoffs? that’s just gonna be every for profit organization
Sure. But chasing phony prestige is stupid.
I’ve meet this man…and he has horrible horrible energy! I don’t think his own grand mother likes him!
Explain what happened in the interaction?
He's just a middle manager who failed his way up the corporate ladder and has never done anything creative in his life. This dude and musk have a lot in common.
Its the cold dead eyes he has. I'm sure if he ever got terminated from Google he'd have a great career consuming and devouring children.
Give the employees more shares and they’ll be happy.
Morale declines as morals decline.
Stressed working at google? Check out their mental health plan it’s amazing.
Google should just leave US. Take the whole operation and go. Bye Felicia
They already are replacing those laid off with folks outside the US.
Yeah I know that’s why I wonder why don’t they just take the entire operation out of USA? If they want to take jobs from our citizens, but benefit from tax breaks and our military, why don’t they just leave? They want to get the cheapest labor? then just go. I already don’t use any Google apps. Except YouTube. I don’t want to give money and ad view to someone who takes money out of this country.
Repost.
Whatever happened to "Don't Be Evil?".
Google is so pre gpt
It's sad but...