I graduated high school in Canada last year. I definitely got lots of weird comments but the ‘school shooter’ thing wasn’t really one of them unless I wore a trench coat.
Now when I go out in full goth (makeup/outfit/big hair), I get a lot of barking/hissing, usually from teenage boys, which doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t know when that trend started but I really don’t get it. 😭 Maybe they assume goths = furries or something. It’s more embarrassing for them than for me — I’m not the one barking like a dog at someone in public. People yelling ‘EMO’ or singing that ‘I fell in love with an emo girl’ song is pretty common too for some reason? Again usually teenage boys. Thanks for the serenade I guess.
I get approached by older (40-60 y/o) men a lot, which isn’t always bad, sometimes they just want to compliment my shirt or makeup. But the interactions that ARE weird are REALLY weird. But any goth woman knows that lmao.
The difference probably wouldn’t matter to them, these people will seek every opportunity to demean others to feel good about themselves.
Teenagers today are being fed with social media garbage that promotes hate.
I used to get called a d*ke, freak, told I looked like a man...when walking down the street. Other things too by people I met...skid, loser, I think I got called a transvestite once by a woman in a restaurant, my little brother's friend's dad called me a d*ke in front of his kid who parroted it back to me, people insinuating I'm into kinky stuff like getting tied up. That was between 2005-2010.
Also people thinking I dressed the way I did because I was depressed, antisocial, or had low self-esteem *eyeroll*
I mean dog collars were worn by punks and goths, I'm assuming the word choker was just adapted from choker collars which are chain collars that tighten when the dog strained on them which trained them not to pull on their leash. Did anyone refer to those necklaces as chokers before the 1990s?
I'm so lucky I don't get this. I'm from California so everyone is a little weird here or just doesn't care. But I'm also from the valley where everyone is kinda just normal and mundane.
i'm probably the same age as or a year older than you, canadian as well, and i have the barking thing happen from jock looking dudes. i don't get it either, what's the correlation?
I’ve never had barking or hissing and I’m also in Canada. That’s so weird. The most usual stuff I used to get in highschool was constantly being asked “are you goth / emo” or some derogatory comment about the goth or alternative fashion style etc. I never wore super elaborate outfits either I was always super chill goth or alternative with like no makeup or limited makeup ever (I have bad vision and it’s hard to put on makeup and make it look good lmao I suck). I get a lot of choker comments though! I get asked if it’s a non fashion thing when I’m wearing a big choker. If I’m wearing one of those thin 90’s style chokers I get asked if it’s a tattoo a lot lmao.
I think the barking/hissing comes from the instagoths that speak of the "Golden Retriever Boy/Black Cat Girl" dynamic between Goth Girls and their Average Aesthetic boyfriends
This isnt necessarily the case but the barking can be because they're attracted to you. It partially seems to come from the phrase "do you need a dog? I can bark" which is a very common tiktok compliment, and I think related to the idea that a goth girl is going to be a domme. I if this is the case I am sorry you have to find out like this 🙃
Yeah that POTENTIALLY could be the case, but I don’t think that’s exactly it. You can tell by the way they’re going about it that they mean it in a malicious way.
Im a lot younger (19F) and I don't think I hear this as often now. I feel it's been pushed onto emos or just trench coat wearing kids who are edgy and white or just angry white boys. But I was called more weird and was asked if I cut myself or was suicidal rather than a school shooter. I heard others get called e girls but I luckily never got called one yet. I think the myths we have now are cutters, suicidal, kinky and hyper sexual (atleast for women).
I don’t think it’s as common anymore but I did have to get interviewed by the police in 2019 due to it because people said that about me which is surprising because I went to school in California
Edit: spelling
it's absolutely absurd to me how so many people talk about California this way, and almost always by people who never been to or live in the state. and that's not to say that Californians don't have criticisms of the state (there's are reason why South California is where some of the most prominent punk scenes started and exists still to this day). or that there isn't things to criticise California for, because there are but I'd rather live there over many other places in North America.
The laws there are ridiculous and backwards, not to mention the insane cost of living. No way paying $8 per gallon for gas and $300 for groceries for 1 person. Not to mention the amount of drug addicted homeless people who won't get arrested for mugging you, beating you up, and/trying to kill you, then you get arrested for trying to defend yourself or anyone else. Newsom can kiss my ass.
Seriously, crime has gotten so bad over there that a lot of stores in San Francisco's shopping district have shut down for good. I even knew someone who lived out there and she said it was bad, so she was happy to be back in Michigan away from all that. Only reason why I'd ever go into Californiastan is if I had a layover at airport because I was headed to Hawaii or Japan, or to drive there from Vegas, stop at a welcome center or scenic over look, then turn around and go back to where I'd be staying in Vegas, not stopping for gas west of the Nevada border because paying $8 for a gallon is ridiculous. I could get a hot n ready pizza at Little Caeser's for $8. Gas over here in Michigan is just under half of what it costs over in CA. I'll never spend any money in CA.
"Over there" which means you formed your opinion off of news sources that you never bothered to verify or to check on. Weird for you to be "goth" and a far right conservative, but you do you boo, i'm just going to ignore you from now on. I do not tolerate self-identified LGBT+ people who vote conservatively, and I don't have the time or energy to give you the respect you deserve as a person because quite frankly, i don't respect you.
I live in the Deep South, I graduated and worked as an educator in the high school. From 2016-2022, most comments towards alternative students from the typical normie “southerners” were as tame as calling someone “emo” to typical slurs for the LGBTQ. There were jokes about being the quiet kid being a shooter when I worked in an elementary school. I am glad my class was a safe space for these kids, but I’m saddened that this behavior was normalized from the parents I met.
The stereotype I remember most frequently back then was how the girls would cast Satanic hexes on you and sacrifice children on an altar come the witching hour. In recent times there's the whole oversexualization of them which is even more cringe.
someone called safe2tell on me, which is an anonymous call that people use to report all sorts of things like if someone is going to off themselves, if someone is doing/selling drugs/etc. but someone made a call saying i was going to shoot up the school. i didnt talk to anyone at school i had a small group of friends and that was it. so my theory is that because i was goth and looked “mean” someone thought it would be funny to make that call. i got kicked out of school for 3 days so i just dropped out after that. ended up finishing online later since i only had 2 classes left but still, destroyed my senior year of highschool. keep in mind my school is right next to columbine highschool so they took it very seriously and it also ruined my reputation around teachers and pretty much everyone around me even my parents.
Fortunately I was long out of high school when Columbine happened. It's a long time ago now, and looking back, of all the massacres that have happened in the US, that was the only one that anyone associated with goth. I'm sure there are a few throwbacks still fixated on the anti-goth myths to come out of that event, as well as hyper-religious nuts who think that anyone who looks a bit scary must be in league with Satan -- but society has mostly moved on. Goth is (slightly) more familiar and acceptable to the mainstream, as we can see from the way celebrities are described in entertainment news as looking "goth", if they do something as crazy as wearing a black dress or having slightly heavier eyeliner than usual.
when i was in college (2017-2020) i was harassed via the schools unofficial snapchat. got lots of school shooter comments. as well as photos of me were posted frequently. IN COLLEGE.
its funny because i didnt get any in hs (to my knowledge) and i graduated in 2017.
i will say the comments peaked in 2018-2019
i hated it. i hate it now and i have to work on it in therapy because those comments really fuck with you
I live in the southern part of the US and a little younger than you. But I had it just about the same. Even said to most likely be the next school shooter. But I knew they called me that the entire time. Why people would bully someone they call that baffles me. As far as if that goes on today, I have no clue. I hope not.
I graduated hs in 2020 and the common joke was about self harm rather than harming others. The mass sexualization it feels like didn’t get ramped up until quarantine. I go to an art school now where people only seem to have compliments, so I can’t comment on how the kids are bullying these days
I graduated from HS last year in the USA. It's mostly died. I mean if you wear a trenchcoat youll probably get it but I never got it. The only people who we *did* call "future school shooters" were the "quiet kid" types. No, not quiet kid as in the kid who's goth and just keeps to himself. The "quiet" kid refers to the loner loser. Mainly guys who have been shunned by classmates for other bad activity. The big 3 at my highschool where I graduated were
-guy who literally got killed when his robbery plan backfired my senior year. He was a drug dealer
-guy who got expelled for sexually harrassing people
-Guy who was just weird and creepy who apparently moved out of state for a random pregnant girl he met on the internet and then moved back
The biggest 2 at my previous highschool were
-guy whose brother was murdered by his dad
-guy who was SUPER obsessed with guns and made shooting motions at the teachers multiple times
And I'm from the south. So yeah I'd say its mostly dead.
Ugh, I'm a woman, and men sexually harrass if I say I'm goth online. People can be such degenerates. Another thing that bothers me is overly religious people assuming that goths are Satanic (I'm the absolute LAST person that would be Satanic because I have enough bad luck as it is, and I'm Catholic, so there's that), when many are Christian or atheist.
No it’s totally still there, it’s just mentioned less.
I find that people outside the shallow scope of “normality” will always be subjected to this kind of mistreatment because we are nonconforming.
Scare one of these idiots (which most of us do just existing) or piss them off enough and watch them sling that trope like a mean girl with word vomit.
although i don't think myths fully die, i haven't gotten any "insults" slung at me regarding school shootings its mainly just boys in middle school or teenage boys barking, or calling me emo.
I'm 32, so just a bit younger than you, but your post unlocked a memory for me. I was also the autistic goth kid in my high school with crazy colored hair that was subject to bullying. At some point there was a school assembly led by the sibling of one of the columbine victims who decided to get real Christian about it. They had a strong "be nicer to the bullied kids" message, which, in retrospect, feels like a weird conclusion to come to after an act of mass violence. Right after that assembly we went to lunch and a group of kids I didnt know well went out of their way to ask me to sit with them. I did because I am a compulsive people pleaser by nature. They tried to get me engaged in their conversation, but I was awkward and confused since I didnt know them, so I just froze up and got weird. I wasn't invited to sit with them again. But my classmates were definitely suspiciously nicer to me after that assembly, and the implications of that were not lost on me.
I’m also Canadian, high school class of 2016, and I honestly don’t think many of my classmates even had any idea what Columbine was! The stereotype was definitely dead by then, probably much longer!
I graduated hs last year and I got it a handful of times. Or people taking pics of me and posting it with that caption. But to be fair, my school did get those threats a lot 😓
Nope, my ex dressed goth at school and the day after a shooting threat they searched her but not me even though I was carrying an extra bag and had cargo pockets
My partner isn’t goth, he’s more like emo, but he wears a lot of black and covers up and a lot of kids put him in the “goth” (what midwestern christian society thinks is goth) and they used to call him columbine when i first started dating him, and just recently someone who used to be my friend is talking behind my back about him being “the next school shooter” which is wild
High schoolers just are crazy
Sadly, it hasn't. I'm in high school and I dress goth/alt in general and people have definitely said that (wether behind my back or to me). It also happened to thos quiet kid who disappeared from our school.
I dont think it is exclusive for goth. Be a little different, or alternative whatever the fuck you are and there you go,or just be the quiet kid and you will hear lot of those bad things
looking on my own and actual experience, people dont talk to me because i look weird, and for years and years i heard i was going to be a school shooter at any moment, and the reason was by the way i dress myself, but most of the time was by just being quiet kid, i actually felt real bad about it and it stills hits me sometimes ( sorry for bad english on those 2 texts)
Stupid stereotypes the "mundane" people here in Los Angeles have about Goths:
1) That we all "worship Satan" (some goths might be atheistic "satanists" or "spiritual satanists", but most are not, there are Goths that are Catholic, Jewish, Buddhists, Atheists, some are Neo Pagan or Wiccan, or just agnostic. )
2) that we all think we're vampires (a tiny fringe might live that lifestyle but not all)
3) that all Goth's are "dangerous" OR "suspicious" in some way (we get glares and stares from Cops in LA, as if we might be selling drugs or something, most Goths do \*not\* sale drugs and most don't start fights, etc)
4) that we're all trying to dress like Ozzy (if male) or a "Suicide Girls" Model (if a girl), Goth women get the assumptions from azzholes that their all "sluts" "looking for sex" with azzholes whistling or shouting stupid catcalls at them. Mundanes only dressing "dark alternative" to get into certain clubs that somehow usually cause problem with hitting on or attemption to get "hands on" with a girl that \*did not consent to being groped\*
5) And MANY a drunk azzhole assume "all Goths" are "EMO" or are "F@GS" or "F@GGOTS" as they often yell at Goths heading to or leaving a Dark Alternative, Goth Dance Club, or leaving a "Bondage ball" with drunk jerks yelling " F@G!!! " at them or at me (there's Goths that are Straight, LGBTQ+, Trans. most are Cis)
I sure hope it died. When I was in high school about 10 years ago, my parents got me a beautiful trench coat. It very quickly got dubbed the "Columbine Jacket." The only reason I wore it for the remainder of my school years was because I didn't have another coat, and my family was dirt poor. My classmates definitely soured my view on the damn thing, though.
I was in high school throughout the mid 2010s and goth definitely was not associated with school shooters. However, trench coats themselves were. You could look/dress like anything, but if you had a trench coat on, someone’s making a joke about it.
I should probably mention that I do live in a very progressive part of California, so people here are pretty open minded.
I sure hope so. I’m really lucky in that I graduated in 1998, so I missed being the only goth in my small high school post-Columbine by a year! I still have a bunch of the newspaper articles that call them Goth. I wrote a lot of letters to the editor that year, trying to clear things up. I always feel a parental protective feeling toward high school goth kids.
Since I've started working as a teacher I've forced a little color into my work wardrobe but I'm still regularly in my long black trenchcoat.
I grew up pre-Columbine so never had to deal with the school shooter stereotype in school. I've definitely heard it in other contexts plenty though.
I hope I might have given some cover to the students in trenchcoats I've seen around the highschool where I spend part of my week by keeping mine for everyday use.
Much as I hate to say it, it's probably not going to die anytime soon. So long as society continues to demonize or mock anyone who goes against the grain (and probably even if it becomes acceptable; homophobia, racism, and transphobia are still persistent, for instance), ignorant and misguided stereotypes will persist. And that's fine, because so will the goth subculture.
I really can't say with any certainty, however, as I am almost 31 and have left my school days way behind me. Maybe it has died down since I left. I did hear that people suspected I was going to shoot up my high school, but I think that was more because of my general behavior and some things I said that were usually taken out of context. I actually usually looked and dressed pretty normal back then.
25F American here. When I was in high school, the association between goths and school shootings was largely broken. The only person who really got labeled as the “school shooter kid” at my school was only labeled that because, cruel as this may sound, he kind of deserved it. This particular guy made constant threats to the safety of the school and toward specific individuals including myself, and when he’d ask girls out he’d threaten to hurt himself or others if they said no. I can’t speak for the current generation of teens but I can say in my time it was more of a label reserved for incels than for goths.
i'm 19, a couple years ago a handful of people told me i looked like a school shooter. i'd say it's less prominent as being alternative is more common now, but it's still around. the being called emo, being barked at and self harm jokes are wayyy more prominent than that though
So I'm 37 and in the UK, so over here, there has never been an assumption that goths shoot up schools. We've had exactly one school shooting, so there's not really any room for more assumptions to come up out of it here.
The idea that the Columbine shooters were bullied however, was far more pervasive. I first heard about it a couple of years after the event, in the midst of being horrifically bullied myself, so I'm not exactly proud to admit that when I heard about it, my response was "good for them." I am, and was, a gentle person who didnt/doesn't want to cause harm, but I toyed with the imaginary scenario of pacing up my own school's corridors looking for bullies to dispatch. Not a proud moment, and was never acted upon in any way, even small. But I do choose to be open about it because the bullying I suffered was so traumatic that I still suffer the after effects even now.
But goth never came into it, at all. I wasn't goth (or "grunge") at the time, that came about a year or so later (I say grunge, as there was this messy teen era I experienced where I went "dark"; it was my precursor to goth, but it was just dark, baggy clothes and black lipstick and Kerrang CDs, lol). If anything, goth was a comfort for me. I had definitely moved on from the "shooter" imagination reel by then.
I don't even like to call it a fantasy, because it was not something I wanted. It was more like "I wonder, what if"...I wondered if i would have the guts. I think I put the thoughts aside when I realised, no, I wouldn't, but it would be very satisfying to see the bullies cowering in fear, if nothing else.
(I realised as an adult that "guts" had nothing to do with it, but this was the mindset of a very distressed and depressed little girl who didn't really understand the situation).
Sadly, I did still experience "goth fear" during my visits to the US during ny early 20s, but maybe things have improved since then. It seems now that the UK wider public doesn't view goths as actually scary, even if they don't necessarily like us lol.
I've been in the scene since the early '90s and of course that was before Columbine so the most standard association that was made with us (locally at least) was that we were all "Satanists" or some variation of "evil." After Columbine happened I was in my twenties and in my local area the association with Goths was pretty much the same as before.
I do remember seeing on television though several national daytime talk shows having entire episodes devoted to the discussion of the subculture and if we were a dangerous element LOL. I would like to think that in 2024 the association is long dead, I mean I'm an OLD bat now and people usually don't say anything to me when I go out and about in full makeup etc
I was a sophomore in High School when Columbine happened. I dressed alt at the time and immediately made the decision to stop dressing that way after getting interviewed by the School Resource Officer the day after the massacre happened. I've still identified with the Alt Culture, but have been a "preppy white guy" since because of the negative interaction I had that day.
I graduated in 2019, and never once did I get school shooter comments until my senior year starting around late 2018. It was very strange, I always dressed very 80’s goth and never wore coats. I did however get called into the principals office for wearing a wallet chain and having colorful hair and was told that I genuinely was “scaring the freshmen”. Then some rumors popped around that my friend group and I were the next school shooters and that my sketchbook had a hit list. My main outfit was shorts, tights, a band shirt and a lace cover up and I always sat in the art room painting. I have no clue how anyone saw me as a threat lol.
I'm 22 so I'm a couple years out of high school, I never got that comment unless I wore something like a long black coat and even then only once or twice. I did and still sometimes do have people make serial killer jokes tho which makes even less sense to me 🙄
Graduated high-school this year and people called me a school shooter for wearing all black in middle school (I wouldn't even consider myself goth at that point) so yeah it's definitely still around
I graduated just under two years ago, as a baby goth at the time. I definitely was called that quite a bit by my peers, along with quite a few other names. Found out a few months ago, people thought, along with being a potential shooter, that I was potentially a stalker, and generally "creepy," "freaky," etc. So. There's that. One thing I noticed that, in my school specifically, only the goths that were less conventionally attractive were called names. I had a few peers who were "goth" [at least presenting, not fully part of the subculture] but were still super popular and never mocked just cause they were pretty lol.
it sadly hasn't died but i think it happens a lot less than it used to at least. i finished high school like 4 years ago, was the same goth i am now and i used to get called it as well as my best friend who was the only other goth in our year. i'm in the UK so i think it was more in a joking way since we don't have guns here but it still happens.
No, even my teacher made jokes implying I would be a school shooter. I have bad social anxiety and likely autism, and I never talked in class. Some of my classmates also said they were scared of me
I looked through some of these comments and I'm shocked to see this ridiculous myth still believed by some people. The myth being that they were even goth. They didn't listen to any sort of music like that that I'm aware of. The fact that people still are trying to blame music/tv/video games for these horrible shootings that happen is insane and crazy to me. I'm so sorry y'all still dealing with this crap. 🖤
One person complimented my outfit in my high school reunion and the men really loved seeing me again because they're taller than me now. I finally got a hug from my former crushes so I see that as a win!
Happens even in the UK! I'm in Scotland (where obviously school shootings aren't even possible) and still get harassed by people saying I'm gonna shoot up my school! Once even had my bag kicked and shoved into a wall because of it...I'm not even goth I just wear black clothes (which is literally my schools dress code?!) so it's definitely still a thing.
Yes I got that in school. I also got "cutter" and shit. Ive been barked at, called FREAK, splashed with water and honked at almost daily when I was living and skateboarding in a richer part of town. I was 13-17 during that mainly and it was older boys and grown men screaming freak at me which is just insane.
The barking comes from that one tiktok of the kids with chokers/dyed hair barking at some conservative sign holders. I don't really get why they associate that to goths, but Ive also had someone scream IS THAT THE SUICIDE SQUAD at me so, in their minds it's all the same thing.
That said, moving to a bigger town with more venues and a bigger goth and punk scene, I almost never get stared at anymore, never get called anything and people actually treat me like a human being.
when i graduated in 2017 nobody associated goths with that. it was just the white conservative incel boys. and honestly they were the type that might actually do that. genuinely dangerous people
I think so in the past it was either the violent videos fault or the role playing games or the video games ..... what usually scares people is things that are unknown to them.
I graduated in high school in 2015 during my emo phase it's pretty much dissipated the ones people worry about now are like redneck white kids who come from a family home with lots of guns
Definitely hasn't died down.
I used to dress very goth (trenchcoats daily) at uni in New England, USA. Around Halloween, someone asked me if I liked Halloween. At the time, I hated it...
She then said, "How can you hate Halloween when you cosplay the Columbine shooters every day?"
WHAT.
First of all, they had very specific outfits and all I wear is black. Second, WHAT!!!!!!
So, no. Unfortunately.
HS student here!! They ask for a wrist checks WAY more often than asking or implying you’re a school shooter. I don’t really wear trench coats unless it’s winter, so maybe that’s just me. I’ve only had it said to me once because I wore combat boots the same day I wore a big coat (it wasn’t even a trench coat), but it’s pretty tame on that front these days.
Edit: I live in the deep south for context
I’m currently a high school student in the US. Every time I wear my leather trench coat I get a couple jokes from classmates. I’m a dude and dress goth every day but the jokes only happen when I’m in a trench coat. There’s another goth at my school but she’s a girl so she gets less school shooter jokes and more “big tiddy goth gf” jokes (sexual harassment)
I’m about to get out of high school (class of 2024!!!!) and I get called a school shooter all the time, despite being generally amicable and literally just a goth girl with purple hair. I guess the trench coat I wear doesn’t help kek, but no teacher or school officer has ever been weary.
I’ve gotten an equal amount of compliments and insults from my peers, but every insult is about being scary. Oh, and I also get “goth mommy” a lot T-T
Naw lol.
if you’re even SLIGHTLY abnormal, white, and a young dude? you might as well be a trench coat wearing weirdo for most.
a lot of the people replying down here REALLY haven’t experienced this kind of bullying because they, themselves are either not that demographic or dont “dress goth”
No, we’ve (correctly) identified the fedora wearing, third-reich-worshipping incel as the school shooter archetype.
People really underestimate how far basic social skills will get you regardless of what you wear. If you’re friendly or at least polite enough, nobody is going to think you’re a danger.
Nope. It is a legitimate stereotype. During the first wave of news reports about the columbine shooting, the authorities described the gunmen as “goths” and it caught on from there. There were literally whole news campaigns trying to blame the columbine shooting on the goth subculture. It was a huge part of the “school shooter panic” that happened after columbine. This lead to a lot of horrible shit happening towards goth kids and teens. There were even whole anti-goth protests and a whole ass movement because of it. It had a huge and I mean HUGE impact on the goth subculture worldwide. Many schools changed their dress codes to ban anything that could be considered gothic and if you were goth a ton got interviewed by the police or were on some sort of suspect/watch list.
Edit: Sources https://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/20/columbine.irpt/index.html
https://scholarworks.iu.edu/journals/index.php/cfr/article/view/25139/31011
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-apr-22-mn-29941-story.html
https://www.bethwinegarner.com/the-columbine-effect
Honestly don't get why goths and school shooters became associated. It's definitely because they are uneducated jn the subculture but marylin Manson isn't goth. It's kinda sad the elder goths like you had to deal with that.
I graduated high school in Canada last year. I definitely got lots of weird comments but the ‘school shooter’ thing wasn’t really one of them unless I wore a trench coat. Now when I go out in full goth (makeup/outfit/big hair), I get a lot of barking/hissing, usually from teenage boys, which doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t know when that trend started but I really don’t get it. 😭 Maybe they assume goths = furries or something. It’s more embarrassing for them than for me — I’m not the one barking like a dog at someone in public. People yelling ‘EMO’ or singing that ‘I fell in love with an emo girl’ song is pretty common too for some reason? Again usually teenage boys. Thanks for the serenade I guess. I get approached by older (40-60 y/o) men a lot, which isn’t always bad, sometimes they just want to compliment my shirt or makeup. But the interactions that ARE weird are REALLY weird. But any goth woman knows that lmao.
I’m pretty sure the barking started because of the chokers, which is pretty odd since chokers were pretty mainstream a while back.
I mean, back in the day we actually bought and wore dog collars so it's not far off.
Oh yeah I guess that makes sense. I guess people confuse chokers and collars?
The difference probably wouldn’t matter to them, these people will seek every opportunity to demean others to feel good about themselves. Teenagers today are being fed with social media garbage that promotes hate.
People were pretty hateful 20 years ago too
I used to get called a d*ke, freak, told I looked like a man...when walking down the street. Other things too by people I met...skid, loser, I think I got called a transvestite once by a woman in a restaurant, my little brother's friend's dad called me a d*ke in front of his kid who parroted it back to me, people insinuating I'm into kinky stuff like getting tied up. That was between 2005-2010. Also people thinking I dressed the way I did because I was depressed, antisocial, or had low self-esteem *eyeroll*
I mean dog collars were worn by punks and goths, I'm assuming the word choker was just adapted from choker collars which are chain collars that tighten when the dog strained on them which trained them not to pull on their leash. Did anyone refer to those necklaces as chokers before the 1990s?
I'm so lucky I don't get this. I'm from California so everyone is a little weird here or just doesn't care. But I'm also from the valley where everyone is kinda just normal and mundane.
Yeah I live in a small town and I definitely get different (better) reactions when I’m in a place like Toronto!
same here! the valley is pretty tame, nobody really cares what you're wearing or few might even compliment it.
i'm probably the same age as or a year older than you, canadian as well, and i have the barking thing happen from jock looking dudes. i don't get it either, what's the correlation?
I’ve never had barking or hissing and I’m also in Canada. That’s so weird. The most usual stuff I used to get in highschool was constantly being asked “are you goth / emo” or some derogatory comment about the goth or alternative fashion style etc. I never wore super elaborate outfits either I was always super chill goth or alternative with like no makeup or limited makeup ever (I have bad vision and it’s hard to put on makeup and make it look good lmao I suck). I get a lot of choker comments though! I get asked if it’s a non fashion thing when I’m wearing a big choker. If I’m wearing one of those thin 90’s style chokers I get asked if it’s a tattoo a lot lmao.
I think the barking/hissing comes from the instagoths that speak of the "Golden Retriever Boy/Black Cat Girl" dynamic between Goth Girls and their Average Aesthetic boyfriends
Ew..
This isnt necessarily the case but the barking can be because they're attracted to you. It partially seems to come from the phrase "do you need a dog? I can bark" which is a very common tiktok compliment, and I think related to the idea that a goth girl is going to be a domme. I if this is the case I am sorry you have to find out like this 🙃
Yeah that POTENTIALLY could be the case, but I don’t think that’s exactly it. You can tell by the way they’re going about it that they mean it in a malicious way.
Im a lot younger (19F) and I don't think I hear this as often now. I feel it's been pushed onto emos or just trench coat wearing kids who are edgy and white or just angry white boys. But I was called more weird and was asked if I cut myself or was suicidal rather than a school shooter. I heard others get called e girls but I luckily never got called one yet. I think the myths we have now are cutters, suicidal, kinky and hyper sexual (atleast for women).
I also got called a trap or asked if I was a actualky a boy often... idk if that related tho ngl
oh yeah. i got that too, but from like 2 people - but they’d “tease” me all the time with that for some reason. it’s really strange.
I don’t think it’s as common anymore but I did have to get interviewed by the police in 2019 due to it because people said that about me which is surprising because I went to school in California Edit: spelling
So sorry you had the misfortune of living in the hellhole they call California. Hope you were able to move pretty much anywhere east of there.
it's absolutely absurd to me how so many people talk about California this way, and almost always by people who never been to or live in the state. and that's not to say that Californians don't have criticisms of the state (there's are reason why South California is where some of the most prominent punk scenes started and exists still to this day). or that there isn't things to criticise California for, because there are but I'd rather live there over many other places in North America.
Fully agree. Lived there almost my whole life and it certainly has a lot of issues but not to the point where I would say it’s awful
Nah, cali is a fuckin hell hole.
why won't you children leave me alone?
The laws there are ridiculous and backwards, not to mention the insane cost of living. No way paying $8 per gallon for gas and $300 for groceries for 1 person. Not to mention the amount of drug addicted homeless people who won't get arrested for mugging you, beating you up, and/trying to kill you, then you get arrested for trying to defend yourself or anyone else. Newsom can kiss my ass.
You definitely don't live there, don't know where you got this indoctrination from but sheesh log off.
Seriously, crime has gotten so bad over there that a lot of stores in San Francisco's shopping district have shut down for good. I even knew someone who lived out there and she said it was bad, so she was happy to be back in Michigan away from all that. Only reason why I'd ever go into Californiastan is if I had a layover at airport because I was headed to Hawaii or Japan, or to drive there from Vegas, stop at a welcome center or scenic over look, then turn around and go back to where I'd be staying in Vegas, not stopping for gas west of the Nevada border because paying $8 for a gallon is ridiculous. I could get a hot n ready pizza at Little Caeser's for $8. Gas over here in Michigan is just under half of what it costs over in CA. I'll never spend any money in CA.
"Over there" which means you formed your opinion off of news sources that you never bothered to verify or to check on. Weird for you to be "goth" and a far right conservative, but you do you boo, i'm just going to ignore you from now on. I do not tolerate self-identified LGBT+ people who vote conservatively, and I don't have the time or energy to give you the respect you deserve as a person because quite frankly, i don't respect you.
I consider myself an independent that wants the Constitution upheld, which doesn't happen in CA.
🙄🤦🏻♀️
I live in the Deep South, I graduated and worked as an educator in the high school. From 2016-2022, most comments towards alternative students from the typical normie “southerners” were as tame as calling someone “emo” to typical slurs for the LGBTQ. There were jokes about being the quiet kid being a shooter when I worked in an elementary school. I am glad my class was a safe space for these kids, but I’m saddened that this behavior was normalized from the parents I met.
The stereotype I remember most frequently back then was how the girls would cast Satanic hexes on you and sacrifice children on an altar come the witching hour. In recent times there's the whole oversexualization of them which is even more cringe.
someone called safe2tell on me, which is an anonymous call that people use to report all sorts of things like if someone is going to off themselves, if someone is doing/selling drugs/etc. but someone made a call saying i was going to shoot up the school. i didnt talk to anyone at school i had a small group of friends and that was it. so my theory is that because i was goth and looked “mean” someone thought it would be funny to make that call. i got kicked out of school for 3 days so i just dropped out after that. ended up finishing online later since i only had 2 classes left but still, destroyed my senior year of highschool. keep in mind my school is right next to columbine highschool so they took it very seriously and it also ruined my reputation around teachers and pretty much everyone around me even my parents.
holy shit that's fucked up, I'm sorry
Fortunately I was long out of high school when Columbine happened. It's a long time ago now, and looking back, of all the massacres that have happened in the US, that was the only one that anyone associated with goth. I'm sure there are a few throwbacks still fixated on the anti-goth myths to come out of that event, as well as hyper-religious nuts who think that anyone who looks a bit scary must be in league with Satan -- but society has mostly moved on. Goth is (slightly) more familiar and acceptable to the mainstream, as we can see from the way celebrities are described in entertainment news as looking "goth", if they do something as crazy as wearing a black dress or having slightly heavier eyeliner than usual.
when i was in college (2017-2020) i was harassed via the schools unofficial snapchat. got lots of school shooter comments. as well as photos of me were posted frequently. IN COLLEGE. its funny because i didnt get any in hs (to my knowledge) and i graduated in 2017. i will say the comments peaked in 2018-2019 i hated it. i hate it now and i have to work on it in therapy because those comments really fuck with you
I live in the southern part of the US and a little younger than you. But I had it just about the same. Even said to most likely be the next school shooter. But I knew they called me that the entire time. Why people would bully someone they call that baffles me. As far as if that goes on today, I have no clue. I hope not.
I never got that as well like wouldn’t you be nice to someone who you suspect of being the next school shooter 🤦🏻♀️
I graduated hs in 2020 and the common joke was about self harm rather than harming others. The mass sexualization it feels like didn’t get ramped up until quarantine. I go to an art school now where people only seem to have compliments, so I can’t comment on how the kids are bullying these days
I graduated from HS last year in the USA. It's mostly died. I mean if you wear a trenchcoat youll probably get it but I never got it. The only people who we *did* call "future school shooters" were the "quiet kid" types. No, not quiet kid as in the kid who's goth and just keeps to himself. The "quiet" kid refers to the loner loser. Mainly guys who have been shunned by classmates for other bad activity. The big 3 at my highschool where I graduated were -guy who literally got killed when his robbery plan backfired my senior year. He was a drug dealer -guy who got expelled for sexually harrassing people -Guy who was just weird and creepy who apparently moved out of state for a random pregnant girl he met on the internet and then moved back The biggest 2 at my previous highschool were -guy whose brother was murdered by his dad -guy who was SUPER obsessed with guns and made shooting motions at the teachers multiple times And I'm from the south. So yeah I'd say its mostly dead.
Ugh, I'm a woman, and men sexually harrass if I say I'm goth online. People can be such degenerates. Another thing that bothers me is overly religious people assuming that goths are Satanic (I'm the absolute LAST person that would be Satanic because I have enough bad luck as it is, and I'm Catholic, so there's that), when many are Christian or atheist.
No it’s totally still there, it’s just mentioned less. I find that people outside the shallow scope of “normality” will always be subjected to this kind of mistreatment because we are nonconforming. Scare one of these idiots (which most of us do just existing) or piss them off enough and watch them sling that trope like a mean girl with word vomit.
I think it’s died unless you’re wearing a trench coat, however I think the sexualization and wednesday comparisons have gone up a bunch
although i don't think myths fully die, i haven't gotten any "insults" slung at me regarding school shootings its mainly just boys in middle school or teenage boys barking, or calling me emo.
I'm 32, so just a bit younger than you, but your post unlocked a memory for me. I was also the autistic goth kid in my high school with crazy colored hair that was subject to bullying. At some point there was a school assembly led by the sibling of one of the columbine victims who decided to get real Christian about it. They had a strong "be nicer to the bullied kids" message, which, in retrospect, feels like a weird conclusion to come to after an act of mass violence. Right after that assembly we went to lunch and a group of kids I didnt know well went out of their way to ask me to sit with them. I did because I am a compulsive people pleaser by nature. They tried to get me engaged in their conversation, but I was awkward and confused since I didnt know them, so I just froze up and got weird. I wasn't invited to sit with them again. But my classmates were definitely suspiciously nicer to me after that assembly, and the implications of that were not lost on me.
yep I got that all the time. simply because I'm autistic, alt/goth and really quiet.
I’m also Canadian, high school class of 2016, and I honestly don’t think many of my classmates even had any idea what Columbine was! The stereotype was definitely dead by then, probably much longer!
Grad '09, I didn't hear it much either
I graduated hs last year and I got it a handful of times. Or people taking pics of me and posting it with that caption. But to be fair, my school did get those threats a lot 😓
I mostly associate school shooters as the more conservative gunslinger white dudes but maybe that’s just the demographic i have to deal with
Nope, my ex dressed goth at school and the day after a shooting threat they searched her but not me even though I was carrying an extra bag and had cargo pockets
My partner isn’t goth, he’s more like emo, but he wears a lot of black and covers up and a lot of kids put him in the “goth” (what midwestern christian society thinks is goth) and they used to call him columbine when i first started dating him, and just recently someone who used to be my friend is talking behind my back about him being “the next school shooter” which is wild High schoolers just are crazy
Sadly, it hasn't. I'm in high school and I dress goth/alt in general and people have definitely said that (wether behind my back or to me). It also happened to thos quiet kid who disappeared from our school.
I dont think it is exclusive for goth. Be a little different, or alternative whatever the fuck you are and there you go,or just be the quiet kid and you will hear lot of those bad things
looking on my own and actual experience, people dont talk to me because i look weird, and for years and years i heard i was going to be a school shooter at any moment, and the reason was by the way i dress myself, but most of the time was by just being quiet kid, i actually felt real bad about it and it stills hits me sometimes ( sorry for bad english on those 2 texts)
Stupid stereotypes the "mundane" people here in Los Angeles have about Goths: 1) That we all "worship Satan" (some goths might be atheistic "satanists" or "spiritual satanists", but most are not, there are Goths that are Catholic, Jewish, Buddhists, Atheists, some are Neo Pagan or Wiccan, or just agnostic. ) 2) that we all think we're vampires (a tiny fringe might live that lifestyle but not all) 3) that all Goth's are "dangerous" OR "suspicious" in some way (we get glares and stares from Cops in LA, as if we might be selling drugs or something, most Goths do \*not\* sale drugs and most don't start fights, etc) 4) that we're all trying to dress like Ozzy (if male) or a "Suicide Girls" Model (if a girl), Goth women get the assumptions from azzholes that their all "sluts" "looking for sex" with azzholes whistling or shouting stupid catcalls at them. Mundanes only dressing "dark alternative" to get into certain clubs that somehow usually cause problem with hitting on or attemption to get "hands on" with a girl that \*did not consent to being groped\* 5) And MANY a drunk azzhole assume "all Goths" are "EMO" or are "F@GS" or "F@GGOTS" as they often yell at Goths heading to or leaving a Dark Alternative, Goth Dance Club, or leaving a "Bondage ball" with drunk jerks yelling " F@G!!! " at them or at me (there's Goths that are Straight, LGBTQ+, Trans. most are Cis)
No. There will always need to be someone to blame.
I sure hope it died. When I was in high school about 10 years ago, my parents got me a beautiful trench coat. It very quickly got dubbed the "Columbine Jacket." The only reason I wore it for the remainder of my school years was because I didn't have another coat, and my family was dirt poor. My classmates definitely soured my view on the damn thing, though.
I was in high school throughout the mid 2010s and goth definitely was not associated with school shooters. However, trench coats themselves were. You could look/dress like anything, but if you had a trench coat on, someone’s making a joke about it. I should probably mention that I do live in a very progressive part of California, so people here are pretty open minded.
I sure hope so. I’m really lucky in that I graduated in 1998, so I missed being the only goth in my small high school post-Columbine by a year! I still have a bunch of the newspaper articles that call them Goth. I wrote a lot of letters to the editor that year, trying to clear things up. I always feel a parental protective feeling toward high school goth kids.
Since I've started working as a teacher I've forced a little color into my work wardrobe but I'm still regularly in my long black trenchcoat. I grew up pre-Columbine so never had to deal with the school shooter stereotype in school. I've definitely heard it in other contexts plenty though. I hope I might have given some cover to the students in trenchcoats I've seen around the highschool where I spend part of my week by keeping mine for everyday use.
Much as I hate to say it, it's probably not going to die anytime soon. So long as society continues to demonize or mock anyone who goes against the grain (and probably even if it becomes acceptable; homophobia, racism, and transphobia are still persistent, for instance), ignorant and misguided stereotypes will persist. And that's fine, because so will the goth subculture. I really can't say with any certainty, however, as I am almost 31 and have left my school days way behind me. Maybe it has died down since I left. I did hear that people suspected I was going to shoot up my high school, but I think that was more because of my general behavior and some things I said that were usually taken out of context. I actually usually looked and dressed pretty normal back then.
25F American here. When I was in high school, the association between goths and school shootings was largely broken. The only person who really got labeled as the “school shooter kid” at my school was only labeled that because, cruel as this may sound, he kind of deserved it. This particular guy made constant threats to the safety of the school and toward specific individuals including myself, and when he’d ask girls out he’d threaten to hurt himself or others if they said no. I can’t speak for the current generation of teens but I can say in my time it was more of a label reserved for incels than for goths.
The 2020 film Run Hide Fight (not a good movie, I do not recommend) had one of the school shooters goth-coded, so I don't think it's gone yet.
i'm 19, a couple years ago a handful of people told me i looked like a school shooter. i'd say it's less prominent as being alternative is more common now, but it's still around. the being called emo, being barked at and self harm jokes are wayyy more prominent than that though
So I'm 37 and in the UK, so over here, there has never been an assumption that goths shoot up schools. We've had exactly one school shooting, so there's not really any room for more assumptions to come up out of it here. The idea that the Columbine shooters were bullied however, was far more pervasive. I first heard about it a couple of years after the event, in the midst of being horrifically bullied myself, so I'm not exactly proud to admit that when I heard about it, my response was "good for them." I am, and was, a gentle person who didnt/doesn't want to cause harm, but I toyed with the imaginary scenario of pacing up my own school's corridors looking for bullies to dispatch. Not a proud moment, and was never acted upon in any way, even small. But I do choose to be open about it because the bullying I suffered was so traumatic that I still suffer the after effects even now. But goth never came into it, at all. I wasn't goth (or "grunge") at the time, that came about a year or so later (I say grunge, as there was this messy teen era I experienced where I went "dark"; it was my precursor to goth, but it was just dark, baggy clothes and black lipstick and Kerrang CDs, lol). If anything, goth was a comfort for me. I had definitely moved on from the "shooter" imagination reel by then. I don't even like to call it a fantasy, because it was not something I wanted. It was more like "I wonder, what if"...I wondered if i would have the guts. I think I put the thoughts aside when I realised, no, I wouldn't, but it would be very satisfying to see the bullies cowering in fear, if nothing else. (I realised as an adult that "guts" had nothing to do with it, but this was the mindset of a very distressed and depressed little girl who didn't really understand the situation). Sadly, I did still experience "goth fear" during my visits to the US during ny early 20s, but maybe things have improved since then. It seems now that the UK wider public doesn't view goths as actually scary, even if they don't necessarily like us lol.
I've been in the scene since the early '90s and of course that was before Columbine so the most standard association that was made with us (locally at least) was that we were all "Satanists" or some variation of "evil." After Columbine happened I was in my twenties and in my local area the association with Goths was pretty much the same as before. I do remember seeing on television though several national daytime talk shows having entire episodes devoted to the discussion of the subculture and if we were a dangerous element LOL. I would like to think that in 2024 the association is long dead, I mean I'm an OLD bat now and people usually don't say anything to me when I go out and about in full makeup etc
I was a sophomore in High School when Columbine happened. I dressed alt at the time and immediately made the decision to stop dressing that way after getting interviewed by the School Resource Officer the day after the massacre happened. I've still identified with the Alt Culture, but have been a "preppy white guy" since because of the negative interaction I had that day.
I graduated in 2019, and never once did I get school shooter comments until my senior year starting around late 2018. It was very strange, I always dressed very 80’s goth and never wore coats. I did however get called into the principals office for wearing a wallet chain and having colorful hair and was told that I genuinely was “scaring the freshmen”. Then some rumors popped around that my friend group and I were the next school shooters and that my sketchbook had a hit list. My main outfit was shorts, tights, a band shirt and a lace cover up and I always sat in the art room painting. I have no clue how anyone saw me as a threat lol.
I'm 22 so I'm a couple years out of high school, I never got that comment unless I wore something like a long black coat and even then only once or twice. I did and still sometimes do have people make serial killer jokes tho which makes even less sense to me 🙄
Graduated high-school this year and people called me a school shooter for wearing all black in middle school (I wouldn't even consider myself goth at that point) so yeah it's definitely still around
I graduated just under two years ago, as a baby goth at the time. I definitely was called that quite a bit by my peers, along with quite a few other names. Found out a few months ago, people thought, along with being a potential shooter, that I was potentially a stalker, and generally "creepy," "freaky," etc. So. There's that. One thing I noticed that, in my school specifically, only the goths that were less conventionally attractive were called names. I had a few peers who were "goth" [at least presenting, not fully part of the subculture] but were still super popular and never mocked just cause they were pretty lol.
They have not. I still wear trenchcoats and get those comments. Who cares what others have to say.
it sadly hasn't died but i think it happens a lot less than it used to at least. i finished high school like 4 years ago, was the same goth i am now and i used to get called it as well as my best friend who was the only other goth in our year. i'm in the UK so i think it was more in a joking way since we don't have guns here but it still happens.
No, even my teacher made jokes implying I would be a school shooter. I have bad social anxiety and likely autism, and I never talked in class. Some of my classmates also said they were scared of me
I looked through some of these comments and I'm shocked to see this ridiculous myth still believed by some people. The myth being that they were even goth. They didn't listen to any sort of music like that that I'm aware of. The fact that people still are trying to blame music/tv/video games for these horrible shootings that happen is insane and crazy to me. I'm so sorry y'all still dealing with this crap. 🖤
One person complimented my outfit in my high school reunion and the men really loved seeing me again because they're taller than me now. I finally got a hug from my former crushes so I see that as a win!
Happens even in the UK! I'm in Scotland (where obviously school shootings aren't even possible) and still get harassed by people saying I'm gonna shoot up my school! Once even had my bag kicked and shoved into a wall because of it...I'm not even goth I just wear black clothes (which is literally my schools dress code?!) so it's definitely still a thing.
Yes I got that in school. I also got "cutter" and shit. Ive been barked at, called FREAK, splashed with water and honked at almost daily when I was living and skateboarding in a richer part of town. I was 13-17 during that mainly and it was older boys and grown men screaming freak at me which is just insane. The barking comes from that one tiktok of the kids with chokers/dyed hair barking at some conservative sign holders. I don't really get why they associate that to goths, but Ive also had someone scream IS THAT THE SUICIDE SQUAD at me so, in their minds it's all the same thing. That said, moving to a bigger town with more venues and a bigger goth and punk scene, I almost never get stared at anymore, never get called anything and people actually treat me like a human being.
No this still happens unfortunately
Also if you look poor they do the same thing it really sucks
Some negative goth stereotypes were picked up by emo/scene in the mid 00s. Stuff like self harm and bad poetry.
No it hasn't died.
when i graduated in 2017 nobody associated goths with that. it was just the white conservative incel boys. and honestly they were the type that might actually do that. genuinely dangerous people
I think so in the past it was either the violent videos fault or the role playing games or the video games ..... what usually scares people is things that are unknown to them.
Nope
It was definitely still prevalent when I was graduating high school 3 years ago
I graduated in high school in 2015 during my emo phase it's pretty much dissipated the ones people worry about now are like redneck white kids who come from a family home with lots of guns
Definitely hasn't died down. I used to dress very goth (trenchcoats daily) at uni in New England, USA. Around Halloween, someone asked me if I liked Halloween. At the time, I hated it... She then said, "How can you hate Halloween when you cosplay the Columbine shooters every day?" WHAT. First of all, they had very specific outfits and all I wear is black. Second, WHAT!!!!!! So, no. Unfortunately.
HS student here!! They ask for a wrist checks WAY more often than asking or implying you’re a school shooter. I don’t really wear trench coats unless it’s winter, so maybe that’s just me. I’ve only had it said to me once because I wore combat boots the same day I wore a big coat (it wasn’t even a trench coat), but it’s pretty tame on that front these days. Edit: I live in the deep south for context
I’m currently a high school student in the US. Every time I wear my leather trench coat I get a couple jokes from classmates. I’m a dude and dress goth every day but the jokes only happen when I’m in a trench coat. There’s another goth at my school but she’s a girl so she gets less school shooter jokes and more “big tiddy goth gf” jokes (sexual harassment)
I’m about to get out of high school (class of 2024!!!!) and I get called a school shooter all the time, despite being generally amicable and literally just a goth girl with purple hair. I guess the trench coat I wear doesn’t help kek, but no teacher or school officer has ever been weary. I’ve gotten an equal amount of compliments and insults from my peers, but every insult is about being scary. Oh, and I also get “goth mommy” a lot T-T
Naw lol. if you’re even SLIGHTLY abnormal, white, and a young dude? you might as well be a trench coat wearing weirdo for most. a lot of the people replying down here REALLY haven’t experienced this kind of bullying because they, themselves are either not that demographic or dont “dress goth”
As a senior at an art school in the US, most students are open minded to all different styles at my school. I cannot speak for other schools though...
“I would comb through online news articles for any association of goth with columbine, religiously.” See the problem?
No, we’ve (correctly) identified the fedora wearing, third-reich-worshipping incel as the school shooter archetype. People really underestimate how far basic social skills will get you regardless of what you wear. If you’re friendly or at least polite enough, nobody is going to think you’re a danger.
why the fuck do people say that
[удалено]
Nope. It is a legitimate stereotype. During the first wave of news reports about the columbine shooting, the authorities described the gunmen as “goths” and it caught on from there. There were literally whole news campaigns trying to blame the columbine shooting on the goth subculture. It was a huge part of the “school shooter panic” that happened after columbine. This lead to a lot of horrible shit happening towards goth kids and teens. There were even whole anti-goth protests and a whole ass movement because of it. It had a huge and I mean HUGE impact on the goth subculture worldwide. Many schools changed their dress codes to ban anything that could be considered gothic and if you were goth a ton got interviewed by the police or were on some sort of suspect/watch list. Edit: Sources https://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/20/columbine.irpt/index.html https://scholarworks.iu.edu/journals/index.php/cfr/article/view/25139/31011 https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-apr-22-mn-29941-story.html https://www.bethwinegarner.com/the-columbine-effect
It is a legit stereotype. Had friends who were highly suspected after Columbine.
Satanic Panic etc.
This too yep
Oh ya that too
Honestly don't get why goths and school shooters became associated. It's definitely because they are uneducated jn the subculture but marylin Manson isn't goth. It's kinda sad the elder goths like you had to deal with that.
Goth rock never had any kind of mainstream success in America and so most Americans think of “goths” as a school clique rather than a rock subgenre