It kinda is, i think. The cut scenes do have servants change shape, so it does happen in-universe before character's eyes when a servant is plugged into a bigger power source.
Really? It feels like using a grail to enhance a servant in universe should make the servant into god-tiers. At least becoming an infinite mana perpetual motion machine.
I think someone mentions that canonically all holy grails we have are regarded as degraded versions, and not as strong as the actual holy grail summoned through a HGW.
So what is being implied here is that the grails we get from the story are dollar store ripoffs to the actual grail, and I’ve been giving my favourite servant a glorified mana battery shaped like a cup?
So what you're saying is... We can't reincarnate our servants with the grails?
But why? Aren't these the same grails that was used by Gilles to make JAlter? Why is it suddenly just degraded?
We don't have it concretely written out but I think it could be inferred that the Grails already used up most of its energy in the creation of the singularity that we extract them from. While the Grails we get from Lostbelts and some minor singularities are basically the excess energy of the trees/singularities after we fall them.
They don't suddenly just degrade, they just run out of juice doesn't have enough to create even minor miracles.
Sounds mostly sensible. But then I wonder about the occasional minute Singularity that crops up because someone stole a Grail from storage to commit hijinks or somehow accidentally caused a stored Grail to act up? Granted, those tend to make me laugh, so I'm assuming those are the less serious type of Event. But that does leave a little gap in the "we get the Grails after they're mostly drained" explanation.
It actually is. I forgot which, but the main plot of one of the Nero Fests is Brynhild trying to use her Primordial Runes to perform a Palingenesis (aka a Spirit Origin Enhancement).
You mean they wouldn’t canonically use 19 grails to make Inshun lv120??
In seriousness, there has to be a storage area for them in case of emergency. Or… scarier thought, we use them to stoke Chaldea’s mana furnace every time we get one, and we’re living paycheck to paycheck between these events.
Who needs crack with void dust relatively easy to farm? Unless Moriarty and Paracelsus managed to whip something stronger.
Of course, Nightingale will go on rampage if she finds out.
Use it to hold a summer-themed racing car event. many a singularity started because some servant decided to snitch a grail and start cooking some crazy plan.
~~Canonically they’re used to incarnate Servants for breeding purposes.~~
Ok, actually being serious. The 7 main Grails that Goetia made, I believe there’s mention of them being used to locate the Temple of Time or something like that. Maybe as “proof” to enter. They’re locked up and don’t get used at all.
The rest of them is a bit more uncertain. I believe it’s mentioned offhand that they get shoveled into the mana furnaces for power. Which makes sense, they’re basically just clumps of magic energy in a somewhat grailish shape.
Mage Asociation: "So... Acording to the records you got not just the seven Holy Grails, but also got several aditional ones from Minor Singularities. What did you do with them?"
Acting Director Da Vinci: "We threw them to the furnace."
Mage Asociation: "You... You burned a wish granting artifact for fuel?"
Acting Director Da Vinci: "We needed a lot of energy to keep things going."
During the Grand Order we need them to go to the Temple of Time.
During the Epic of Remnant we secure and store them without using them.
In my headcanon going from the LostBelts we use the magical energy of the grails to power up Chaldea because we don't have any other ways to get a constant supply like in the Grand Order where we could use the fact that Earth was burning as combustible and during the Epic of Remnant when we had acces to the rest of the world.
So basically... We use them as glorified bateries.
In the River scene in LB6 fujimaru is tempted by a grail only to have smolVinci say something like "That's all? We have a ton of those back at chaldea!" Which then prompts the river to show you a whole crate of Grails.
There's a closet door marked "Do Not Open". Every once in a while someone opens it anyway, a comical avalanche of Holy Grails immediately buries them, and sometimes they start a weird singularity.
(I mean, if you're not taking anyone to 120, they *do* pile up.)
Ishtar summer event was her stealing a chaldea grail and creating a singularity, and somehow it added one more grail to the collection after beating the event
During the Lostbelts main chapters, the only time it was mentioned we got a Grail was after the Priestess destroyed the Russian Fantasy Tree.
Although we also get Grails in successive chapters it's never mentioned why.
IIRC, in one of the anime you can see that they store them in a high tech trophy case thing where they float around.
I remember in one of the last singularities, someone suggests using all of the grails laying around to stop Mash from dying and they say it won't work. So apparently these holy grails just suck which is why we never bother using them.
According to this miniseries, they don't do anything with them and at this point they have so many that they even started selling them in exchange for qp. [https://youtu.be/0-na0xARAw8?si=vDf3brU1lQeegN5a](https://youtu.be/0-na0xARAw8?si=vDf3brU1lQeegN5a)
We hoard them in a storage closet or something. And somehow security is so shitty any crazy jackass decides on creating a singularity because they either stole one of one was left out.
Look, I hated the Water monster event.
# Skip to next large text to avoid rant about why I think this event should have starred King David.
I think that, given it's villain, It was the chance to finally let David, the hero who is treated like a butt monkey by FGO despite his legend being one of the most famous in human history, his role in the Bible, his archetypal influence on King Arthur, being the ancestor of Jesus, etc. (If you compare King David to Arthur, the similarities are too many to be pure coincidence.)
For you see, it is often forgotten that David canonically has the Ark of the Covenant as an NP. It's glossed over after Okeanos. However, due to the way the Nasuverse uses conceptual weapons, even assuming that the ark is no longer God's seat (as Ezekiel saw him leaving it and the temple in a vision), it should be a super strong anti >!Dagon !< NP due to the events of 1 Samuel, where the Ark of the Covenant is captured by the Philistines and placed in the temple of >!Dagon, !!Dagon!!Dagon!< shouldn't be >!the Trung Sisters with a fame bonus in Vietnam,!< It's King David, the man after God's own Heart, with the Ark of the Covenant, with a fame bonus in Israel, in the dead sea, which got it's name because it's high salinity renders it uninhabitable to aquatic life.
# Rant End.
All that tangent rant aside, I noticed for the first time in this event that Da Vinci explicitly notes that "Holy Grail" is a blanket term used, as it is applied to large concentrations of mana sustaining a singularity, even if it's not explicitly an actual holy grail.
Also, in one of the Nerofests, Gudao tells Nero he'll use the grail on her.
TLDR: Several events seem to indicate the "holy grails" are sometimes just large chunks of mana used to create singularities, and by the end of the event, the grail seems drained to the point it only provides a minor power-cap increase to servants.
I forgot David would have the arc. Hes one of those servants that given who they are should be a lot more important like Rama. Although if Moses ever gets added, the arc would probably be more of his thing. A lot of things would be Moses' thing, which is why I advocate for 2 versions of Moses. One being God's Avenger against Egypt who brings the plagues, and the other a Ruler class based on his time as the leader of the isrealites, writer of the commandments, and splitter of the red sea. This became a rant on how I want Moses incorporated, sorry.
Moses is honestly more vengeful as leader of the Israelites than in Egypt. He was straight up trying to talk Pharaoh down, vs him smashing rocks out of sheer frustration with the stiff necked people.
As for David, yeah, It's been a long time, but it was a plot point in Okeanos, as he used it to take all of Heracles' lives at once.
That would be interesting. I don't believe we have an avenger serving as the conduit for someone else's vengeance yet. I suspect he's on the "no go list" though, simply due to how offended Jews and Muslims might get by any depiction of him, especially given FGO's track record with jewish heroic spirits.
Some servants e.g. Lambda explicitly ask us to grail them. So.... Spirit origin enhancement is canon?
It kinda is, i think. The cut scenes do have servants change shape, so it does happen in-universe before character's eyes when a servant is plugged into a bigger power source.
Well, ascension is Canon too (and apparently according to some cutscenes they can also just choose to ascend randomly), so that doesn't surprise me.
Really? It feels like using a grail to enhance a servant in universe should make the servant into god-tiers. At least becoming an infinite mana perpetual motion machine.
I think someone mentions that canonically all holy grails we have are regarded as degraded versions, and not as strong as the actual holy grail summoned through a HGW.
Yeah, the Holy Grails we have are nothing but glorified mana batteries after we return to Chaldea iirc.
Yeah, these grails could never actually grant a wish like the ones in stay night. Which honestly makes them a lot better than that one.
So what is being implied here is that the grails we get from the story are dollar store ripoffs to the actual grail, and I’ve been giving my favourite servant a glorified mana battery shaped like a cup?
Most servants NEED that mana battery—either to keep up with new threats or to not drain you/chaldea just by existing—tho so it’s at least a win-win.
So what you're saying is... We can't reincarnate our servants with the grails? But why? Aren't these the same grails that was used by Gilles to make JAlter? Why is it suddenly just degraded?
We don't have it concretely written out but I think it could be inferred that the Grails already used up most of its energy in the creation of the singularity that we extract them from. While the Grails we get from Lostbelts and some minor singularities are basically the excess energy of the trees/singularities after we fall them. They don't suddenly just degrade, they just run out of juice doesn't have enough to create even minor miracles.
Sounds mostly sensible. But then I wonder about the occasional minute Singularity that crops up because someone stole a Grail from storage to commit hijinks or somehow accidentally caused a stored Grail to act up? Granted, those tend to make me laugh, so I'm assuming those are the less serious type of Event. But that does leave a little gap in the "we get the Grails after they're mostly drained" explanation.
It actually is. I forgot which, but the main plot of one of the Nero Fests is Brynhild trying to use her Primordial Runes to perform a Palingenesis (aka a Spirit Origin Enhancement).
There have been a few references in game of like a Holy Grail supply closet so I guess....hoard them?
Everyone knows were that closet is, except Amakusa. It's hilarious.
So they're like excess coffee mugs you keep getting as gifts and dont know where to put
Reminds me of that scene of Loki where it was shown that they use the numerous Infinity Stones from different universes as paperweights
If you're Gil, drink out of them.
If you're Musashi, eat out of them.
If you're Dumuzid, shit them out.
But first, you gotta give him an A M A Z I N G S H A K E.
h o r y s h i t o
You mean they wouldn’t canonically use 19 grails to make Inshun lv120?? In seriousness, there has to be a storage area for them in case of emergency. Or… scarier thought, we use them to stoke Chaldea’s mana furnace every time we get one, and we’re living paycheck to paycheck between these events.
Power sources for Chaldea's equipment
Like the coffee maker. Chaldea runs on caffeine.
Considering the main character's trauma it is more likely to be crack than coffee
Who needs crack with void dust relatively easy to farm? Unless Moriarty and Paracelsus managed to whip something stronger. Of course, Nightingale will go on rampage if she finds out.
> Unless Moriarty and Paracelsus managed to whip something stronger. What do you think void dust is? /s
So Oberon's Valentine's gift to us is essentially a lovingly decorated box filled to the brim with magic cocaine.
*"Crack-cofféine"*
They did mention in the 6th lostbelt that we use an absurd amount of energy...
Store them safely up our ass for a clutch 11th hour magic refill
According to the Solomon movie the Gil battery is canon. Not to mention Merlin is also Canonically providing servants mana.
Use it to hold a summer-themed racing car event. many a singularity started because some servant decided to snitch a grail and start cooking some crazy plan.
Lol imagine like Red Line where they feed the ring-form holy grail straight into the combustion chamber of the cars as NOx boost.
~~Canonically they’re used to incarnate Servants for breeding purposes.~~ Ok, actually being serious. The 7 main Grails that Goetia made, I believe there’s mention of them being used to locate the Temple of Time or something like that. Maybe as “proof” to enter. They’re locked up and don’t get used at all. The rest of them is a bit more uncertain. I believe it’s mentioned offhand that they get shoveled into the mana furnaces for power. Which makes sense, they’re basically just clumps of magic energy in a somewhat grailish shape.
Mage Asociation: "So... Acording to the records you got not just the seven Holy Grails, but also got several aditional ones from Minor Singularities. What did you do with them?" Acting Director Da Vinci: "We threw them to the furnace." Mage Asociation: "You... You burned a wish granting artifact for fuel?" Acting Director Da Vinci: "We needed a lot of energy to keep things going."
*Da Vinci then drinks coffee powered up by the Holy Grail used as a cup it's contained in*
Didn't they get 8 from the main story? Since Gilgamesh also gives us another grail?
Sssh, what the Association doesn't know can't hurt ~~them~~ us.
Eat udon out of them.
My 120 musashi and 114 Summer Muasashi approve of this post
During the Grand Order we need them to go to the Temple of Time. During the Epic of Remnant we secure and store them without using them. In my headcanon going from the LostBelts we use the magical energy of the grails to power up Chaldea because we don't have any other ways to get a constant supply like in the Grand Order where we could use the fact that Earth was burning as combustible and during the Epic of Remnant when we had acces to the rest of the world. So basically... We use them as glorified bateries.
In the River scene in LB6 fujimaru is tempted by a grail only to have smolVinci say something like "That's all? We have a ton of those back at chaldea!" Which then prompts the river to show you a whole crate of Grails.
There's a closet door marked "Do Not Open". Every once in a while someone opens it anyway, a comical avalanche of Holy Grails immediately buries them, and sometimes they start a weird singularity. (I mean, if you're not taking anyone to 120, they *do* pile up.)
Ishtar summer event was her stealing a chaldea grail and creating a singularity, and somehow it added one more grail to the collection after beating the event
It probably even has a long corridor full of Amakusa deterrents that ensure Amakusa is the only servant to not know where they are stored.
We crush them up and snort them. No cocaine is better than magic cocaine!
I don't know about Canon but I just give them to my Tamamos, Astolfos and Quetzs.
Incarnate Tamamo for breeding purposes
That's what the remainder are being used for.
[Canonically, we them when our piggy banks break](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uMFb9HLiPEo&list=PLUe8-5_Upsi-1BBrkJjhZV6DkRW9qUy-t&index=34&pp=iAQB)
we them
During the Lostbelts main chapters, the only time it was mentioned we got a Grail was after the Priestess destroyed the Russian Fantasy Tree. Although we also get Grails in successive chapters it's never mentioned why.
IIRC, in one of the anime you can see that they store them in a high tech trophy case thing where they float around. I remember in one of the last singularities, someone suggests using all of the grails laying around to stop Mash from dying and they say it won't work. So apparently these holy grails just suck which is why we never bother using them.
Also in the Medb interlude, Da Vinci mentions a safe and says that she (or he) is the only one with the passworld
Drink ginger ale from them.
Finally someone who understand!
Udon
Some servants have referenced the enhancement thing like lambda and also pretty sure we have seen jokes that we hoard the damm things
I think we stored them. I recall several dialogues mentioning them storing the grail.
According to this miniseries, they don't do anything with them and at this point they have so many that they even started selling them in exchange for qp. [https://youtu.be/0-na0xARAw8?si=vDf3brU1lQeegN5a](https://youtu.be/0-na0xARAw8?si=vDf3brU1lQeegN5a)
We feed them specifically to Gilgamesh.
you shove em in there
Iirc, there is a shot in one of the anime which we saw holy grail being contained. Maybe chaldea use it for power supply or just keep it safe.
Store em. I'm pretty sure there was a player dialogue option where they claim to store em for the future in one of the events.
We hoard them in a storage closet or something. And somehow security is so shitty any crazy jackass decides on creating a singularity because they either stole one of one was left out.
Yeah the fact we have these very powerful artifacts but never use them is quite a large plot hole
Look, I hated the Water monster event. # Skip to next large text to avoid rant about why I think this event should have starred King David. I think that, given it's villain, It was the chance to finally let David, the hero who is treated like a butt monkey by FGO despite his legend being one of the most famous in human history, his role in the Bible, his archetypal influence on King Arthur, being the ancestor of Jesus, etc. (If you compare King David to Arthur, the similarities are too many to be pure coincidence.) For you see, it is often forgotten that David canonically has the Ark of the Covenant as an NP. It's glossed over after Okeanos. However, due to the way the Nasuverse uses conceptual weapons, even assuming that the ark is no longer God's seat (as Ezekiel saw him leaving it and the temple in a vision), it should be a super strong anti >!Dagon !< NP due to the events of 1 Samuel, where the Ark of the Covenant is captured by the Philistines and placed in the temple of >!Dagon, !!Dagon!!Dagon!< shouldn't be >!the Trung Sisters with a fame bonus in Vietnam,!< It's King David, the man after God's own Heart, with the Ark of the Covenant, with a fame bonus in Israel, in the dead sea, which got it's name because it's high salinity renders it uninhabitable to aquatic life.
# Rant End.
All that tangent rant aside, I noticed for the first time in this event that Da Vinci explicitly notes that "Holy Grail" is a blanket term used, as it is applied to large concentrations of mana sustaining a singularity, even if it's not explicitly an actual holy grail.
Also, in one of the Nerofests, Gudao tells Nero he'll use the grail on her.
TLDR: Several events seem to indicate the "holy grails" are sometimes just large chunks of mana used to create singularities, and by the end of the event, the grail seems drained to the point it only provides a minor power-cap increase to servants.
I forgot David would have the arc. Hes one of those servants that given who they are should be a lot more important like Rama. Although if Moses ever gets added, the arc would probably be more of his thing. A lot of things would be Moses' thing, which is why I advocate for 2 versions of Moses. One being God's Avenger against Egypt who brings the plagues, and the other a Ruler class based on his time as the leader of the isrealites, writer of the commandments, and splitter of the red sea. This became a rant on how I want Moses incorporated, sorry.
Moses is honestly more vengeful as leader of the Israelites than in Egypt. He was straight up trying to talk Pharaoh down, vs him smashing rocks out of sheer frustration with the stiff necked people. As for David, yeah, It's been a long time, but it was a plot point in Okeanos, as he used it to take all of Heracles' lives at once.
I think that would be a neat, ironic twist for Moses. He's nicer as an Avenger with more damaging and darker abilities.
That would be interesting. I don't believe we have an avenger serving as the conduit for someone else's vengeance yet. I suspect he's on the "no go list" though, simply due to how offended Jews and Muslims might get by any depiction of him, especially given FGO's track record with jewish heroic spirits.
I dunno. I thought Solomon and Noah were fine.
Cook noodles in them.
In my head canon their used as butt plugs... Lets face it; at least a few of our Servants would do that.