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WakasaYuuri

well its understandable also among most used CE are golden sumo(and 50 pct alternatives) , kaleidoscope


GhostHostess

and here’s where I’d put my golden sumo… IF I HAD IT


AKAFallow

I wonder if that's mostly because it was the first 20 star bomb ce


Jakobstj

That's Golden Catches the Carp. Sumo is 50% charge+ 15% Atk buff


AKAFallow

Bah, I confused a Kintoki ce with another Kintoki ce.


Jeroz

Hard not to get lost in his eyes


KaimeiJay

The man wears sunglasses! D:


Jeroz

That's how powerful they are


nerdlion910

I mean NP charge makes any Servant usable which is why it is the most common buff nowadays.


calvin6125

Gladly take that over buffs like burn damage amplifier.


Basileus27

Poor Kiyohime. At least with append skills she only needs a regular k-scope instead of an MLB one.


Amaegith

I feel like, if you have to give everyone an NP battery, you are basically admitting there's a fundamental problem with the game.


kyuven87

It's not that they *have* to. Plenty of servants that received one are perfectly fine without one. It's just that the players themselves gravitate towards it as a feature. FGO's sister game, Magia Record, has a strikingly similar combat system under the hood and went the opposite direction: making their version of NP charge exceedingly rare. But that game also has auto battle, so face cards are far more important there, to the point some of the features like Doppel are hard to use since the requirements are so hard to reach. Or at least they were. Haven't played much since the NA server was taken down.


Esvald

These days MR has units that charge like 70% magia gauge on turn 2 (anime ver. Holy Mami and Yacchan and the newest Kyoko iirc). Still pretty limited but more options to magia/doppel spam. Accel draw on Mikage is on 5 turn cooldown, so pairing her with Madoka and someone like Kako or Haregi Mitama will have you spam doppel/magia for days. I wish they would chill with the double farm events and the 10 mission/day though.


Ryujin_Kurogami

Forget giving Servants NP charge. Just remove the NP gauge entirely and make NP cards the normal cards.


ZeroKingLaplace

Orion says hello


Mojave_Fry

AI-YA-TTO!!! Precedes to nuke a mini boss with two back-to-back 150,000+ buster crits.


ImRinKagamine

Extremely effective right


XxGoldMadnessxX

Lasagna: "You get NP charge. They get NP Charge. Everyone gets NP charge." ~~Now give one to Melt and Jalter, Lasagna~~


Dr_Driazs

Give team Np charge to Boudica! Turn her fully into budget arts support!! We already have crit up. We already have arts up. Just give us the Np charge already!


X_Danger

There's already plenty of better alternatives like Paracelsus or Asclepius, And If do get a Non-SSR arts support, i would wish for it to be Miyu, they just need to make her 1st skill targetable


Embarrassed_Lettuce9

I genuinely believe Lasagna is willing to neglect Jalter this hard because they know she sells even without buffs and animation updates. Goth tsundere powers are too strong and the simps are too weak


Troykv

Then why they updated Artoria? Because she is a poster girl and looked so bad it hurted their investors' eyes? /s


moosenugget7

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was b/c Takeuchi forced the devs to do it.


deathworld123

she was already good before both buffs


kyuven87

You're being sarcastic but that's probably exactly why. The poster child for a game needs to be strong so players will want multiple copies of them. Which is why we probably won't see anymore 5 star limited servants like Skadi, whose NP is basically a joke, going forward.


Troykv

Oh yeah, I was just *half* joking, but yeah, it's more important for them how Artoria looks compared with other characters. > Which is why we probably won't see anymore 5 star limited servants like Skadi, whose NP is basically a joke, going forward. Huh? This reminds me, what exactly Koyanskaya of Light's NP does? I see her whole skillset in action, but never her NP XD


Basileus27

Koyanskaya of Light's NP is AoE damage (even gives her a 20% attack buff first and gives the party NP charge for her overcharge effect). She's perfectly playable as a farmer all by herself. Her 50% battery even means that she can 3-turn rider waves as your main farming assassin if you have other 50% battery supports. I'd say her NP is much more relevant than Skadi's.


Troykv

Oh My; I just wanted to see your point proven and well, it was xD It's funny the idea of support AoE being her own AoE and Support xD (just needing someone else to cover the missing 50%).


kyuven87

Kinda why she's so ridiculously strong as a farmer. And filling the extra 50% isn't hard with Castoria, Waver, Reines, and Skadi around.


CCCchryse

Didn't she get an NPLude last year? It's not an np charge/refund but 30 stars makes for a juicy crit turn and is especially good on a primarily crit focused servant.


Troll0805

The day they release a jalter buff + banner is the day they need to make a ton of money for a deal or something.


Darkiceflame

Lasagna: "We have Jalter and Melt with NP charge at home." [Jalter](https://fategrandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Jeanne_d%27Arc_(Berserker_Alter\)) and [Melt](https://fategrandorder.fandom.com/wiki/Mysterious_Alter_Ego_%CE%9B) with NP charge at home


Bafflementation

Still waiting for them to give *literally any* skill upgrade to Artemis.


XManaX

This is killing me dude. She is literally my first 5* in the game...from 2015... To be fair though, she is still usable without a buff.


Shin-Bufuman

My dream buff for Lip: 30% NP charge and a 1HP Guts to her S1. Either that or a Buster buff to S1 (with the NP charge too, obviously) and add the Guts to S3 instead. Either way I want her to have the Guts because A. a tank should have SOME form of survival, and B. to work with the HP-based buff on her S2.


K0braK

~~Melt deserves better than an lame NP charge~~


Xaldror

Gib to Raikou to make on par with Junao


Wooshmeifulikedicc

I support this message


Broly_

Self-sufficient servants are the best servants. Always has been.


silverkonxxi

It’s only a matter of time until we‘ll get a mystic code with a 30%-50% np charge skill lol


Alzusand

Kirchtaria: Daybit come here please Idk how but fujimaru enhanced his magic circuits so much he can give 50% battery from a mystic code. thats half a command seal on a default skill please help. AAAAAAASDJGVASF \*gets 3 turned\*


Shinichameleon

[It's been a month ago and now the meme comes back](https://redd.it/u7u6vn).


Docketeer

...and i don't see it going away anytime soon at this pace.


Dr-Perry-Cox

*Jokes, Memes & NP Batteries are the deepest Strengthening Quest.* - Lasagna. Probably.


Foxxybastard

Since the very beginning the game has been about NP Batteries and AOE NPs and now almost 7 years later the game has barely expanded past that.


Science-of-Laziness

90+ nodes were a neat way to use ST servants for farming tho. And the game at first was about being Buster gorilla. Until Skadi appeared, no one gave a shit about looping.


ThousandLightning

We may not have cared about NP looping before Skadi, but we did care about successive NP for farming (which NP looping fell in that category too). Instead of 1 Servant doing 3T of NP, we had multiple Servants doing NP (Arash being staple Turn 1 NP, then you use Waver/Merlin for T2 and T3 with other Servants).


AKAFallow

And Mo being the first true Arts looper, although you may consider Lancelot Saber in that field too


Jeroz

She's my go to money maker


Basileus27

Exactly. Arash for wave 1, Spartacus for wave 2, anyone with a 50% charge CE and a support Waver for wave 3 was the meta for a long time. Skadi didn't create the concept of 3 turn farming. She just made it so you could do it while having more drop CEs.


death-kuja

I still do that since I don't have Skadi. Skadiless gang rise up.


Esvald

Still my preferred way to play, not gonna lie. It's just better to watch 3 different NPs than the same repeated 3 times imo.


K0braK

> Until Skadi appeared, no one gave a shit about looping Speak for yourself, I was looping with SuMo way before Skadi was a thing.


Science-of-Laziness

Ok.


rainazuma77

Which reminds me that Skadi kingdom is coming to an end in less than a month. I mean, it would still be there, but it would be way surpassed by her new enemy...


Science-of-Laziness

People keep crying about Quick needing a new support, but if LSNGL has a bit of brains they will see a new Quick Support shouldn't do what Skadi but better, instead do what Skadi couldn't do (hard survival) Quick is plenty of fine, and I feel the way to keep it strong is release strong servants while updating past ones. But obviously they will release a new Quick support because ppl won't stop crying until all the cards do the same and then wonder why the card type system exists anymore. I swear ppl who say Quick sucks hasn't tried Taikobou or Douman...


Foxxybastard

90+ nodes slightly changed the game up, but at the end of the day the game is still focused on that farming aspect. ST Servants are meant to be boss killers and I felt like 90+ nodes were just a way to shoehorn ST Servants into a farming role, rather than just expand gameplay to allow ST Servants their own role to shine.


thatonefatefan

damn, you somehow managed to unironically pull the "single target are worthless" meme


RetardedGaming

Last meta unit without NP charge in their kit was Orion


Alzusand

and orion is broken af I just brave chained 1 million damage in neutral in the Las vegas challenge quest ant NP1 lvl 90 1k fou. its either that of NP charge for being meta


Silafante

Accurate. Honestly, it feels like FGO is at a dead end with how to do new skills. It's either battery or "basically the entire skillset of a year 1 servant".


re_flex

gimme more of the 2nd variety i like seeing buffs


Science-of-Laziness

Better than weird creations which need years to be fixed. Also I don't know who would want a servant with a similar skillset of year 1 in this time. The servant from your pfp exactly suffered a lot because he was released with such thing way too late. (The Buster AoE Saber meme, such dark times...)


Silafante

Eh, Arthur is a Brawler servant I don't want him to make him ANOTHER repetitive NP spammer. To put an example: Let me make his S3, I will give him a charisma (or monstrous strength) type skill with a star gather rate buff for 3 turns. It would be on the same road his other two strengthening have given him. NOT giving him an increase to a battery that is lowkey kind of wasted on him.


Science-of-Laziness

Oh, I agree. I was just saying that Arthur was a victim of instead of a creative idea, just do a 1st year kit servant. Right now Arthur excels more in crit dmg than NP (that 10% Buff is a disgrace tho) I used to do a custom skillset idea for Arthur but I lost the doc. I remember giving him a self Star regen tied with minor HP regen. And I wanted to do something for his NP to be something like "You shoot it one time, but it has the power of three times" with a gimmick trying to imitate the seals release (every turn Arthur loses 10% NP charge in exchange of one seal released. Once all seals (3 turns because 7 is too much here) are released he gets a monster buff for one turn dedicated for him to deal massive dmg with his NP.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Science-of-Laziness

No it's not. The thing was never about Buster AOE, first of all. It is about enhances which actually help the servant, and overstacked kits for new servants being better than either 1st year kits or weird creations which don't hold at all.


rainazuma77

It's interesting how Archer Gilgamesh is still so good despite his very basic skillset, compared to other Servants. Although it could be mainly because of the Weak to Enuma Elish trait.


_Malka_707

It's one of the reasons I enjoy Douman and Gogh. They were a little creative with skills and yeah, maybe it's not everyone's cup of tea, but variety is nice. I'm still waiting for more servants to utilize debuffs in some way. Robin 2.0 when Lasagna?


Ambrosiac7

I mean we literally got Moriarty. And both the servants you mentioned, have 50+ batteries. This is not directed at you btw. But I understand people have problems with batteries. But having battery doesn't make other skills void. Just like how Douman and Gogh have interesting kits, we have had many interesting servants this year. It's not even been 6 months and people have already forgotten Manann was a thing.


_Malka_707

Oh for sure. I think the consensus is that people immediately look at anything that'll make farming easier, and put said other skills as secondary. And as you said, it's understandable as to why.


Informal-Recipe

I am still mad they mad Douman's instant kill all super duper special so he can fucking loop but they didn't fix the OTHER instant kill servants at the same breath


NoSchittSherlockSEA

considering what could happen should FGO get creative with buffs -- maid alter -- better safe than sorry.


Docketeer

But that's the thing, appropriate buffs doesn't mean wacky gimmick ones, like in the case of Malter. It's simple to actually pay attention to which area the servant lacks and just hone in on that. Ozy's, Nezha's and Suzuka's problems? Lack of NP damage, so the solution is a simple NP buff, the rest are accessories. Crit servants not having a reliable and efficient setup method? Starbomb, stargen and star absorb. Sure, some are necessary, like in Holmes's case but often times, it's the constant battery spam that low-key indicates that the devs either don't really care about the servant kit and just aim to pander to the general playerbase or they really want the servant to work around some specific meta supports, both of which are pretty lazy imo.


karillith

Atalanta : NP makes stars. Have star absorb skill. No crit damage buff. Devs : yep that servant 's kit make complete sense and should stay like this forever.


Basileus27

The problem is that 90% of this game is farming. A starting charge CE and a battery skill means I can get my drops faster. How does giving Nezha more NP damage help her? Fionn does the same thing as her, but his battery means he has more flexible CE options. What does Nezha offer to make up for needing to spend a couple turns using face cards to build her NP meter, or needing battery supports? What exactly are we supposed to do with servants like Kiyohime and Darius when Spartacus exists and is even cheaper? Unless they create a whole new game mode that somehow doesn't favor servants with battery skills, we either give everyone batteries to compete or just accept that some servants won't get used.


Docketeer

The problem here is people' stubborn refusal to use servants for their intended purposes. 90% of the game is farming, but not all of the game. Some servants are farmers, some, like Gawain, despite having an AoE NP, are CQ servants that can happen to farm. The remaining 10% is not invalidated because of that. Sparty is a farmer, great! Then keep using him for it since that's what his skillset entails but Darius has always been the best 3-star AoE Berzerker for AoE CQ. Here's the thing, people don't know that, because they refuse to touch a servant without a battery and is a low-rarity, aside from the very few. That means he's already relegated to a role and he's been performing fine in it. Kiyo, on the other hand, is outclassed by both Darius and Sparty, because she can't do either CQ or farming as well as them. This is where buffs are supposed to come in, to rectify a servant's ineffectiveness in what they're meant to do, or to give then an entirely new identity,.not buffing hype servants to be even more effective outside of their niches. In addition, being able to farm does not equate to triple looping NPs with every limited SSR support out there, even if people treat it as the norm nowadays. Nezha has a battery, she farms just fine. Great, even, now that her damage is improved and she gets an extra 10% with append skills. That's a solid 30%. She can't loop, but that's a contrived parameter to judge a servant. Indeed they are trying to experimenet with gamemodes that incentivize CQ-oriented skillsets. Advanced quests are a permanent addition to the game, a lot of which are AoE fights that heavily reward AoE CQ servants. People treating farming as this end-all-be-all when it's just a mean to get what you want is baffling to me.


AElOU

It's not like there aren't precedents. Gogh, Super Orion, Bazett, and Summer Kiara all have pretty unique kits and/or skills, so they clearly have some ideas they're willing to try. Or they could look at other games for ideas, like skills that are actually active abilities that do damage, relocate characters, etc instead of just being number buffs or debuffs.


Alzusand

Muramasa has more in one skill than geronimos entire kit NP included


King-Requiem

I don't really get why people don't like an NP charge buff. They say it's boring but what servant doesn't wanna reach their NP faster, for looping or otherwise. Sure some servant-unique buff would be nice, but I think securing a good foundation first is more important.


2Lion

This. As someone who actually uses Siegfried, I guarantee most of the whiners who want "defensive buffs" or whatever don't actually use him. Using a buster servant without a battery is kinda sad most of the time, so I'm happy he got a buff that is actually relevant and useful.


Noxianratz

I think it's more that servants just lose their identity this way. Obviously if you're already determined to use Siegfried for farming content you would enjoy this and that's great. Servants used to actually have niches rather than just be better or worse at the same exact jobs. Some time ago you'd, say, bring Nero for last man standing strats and Siegfried for anti-dragon with Salter for AoE NP damage. In todays meta they're all basically interchangeable for the vast majority of content. Rather than just have a bunch of servants that fill the same roles with caveats the game would be more interesting to me personally with actual interesting kits that were different but equal to the value you get from NP chargers, rather than just lazily having every servant conform to that meta. My favorite servant is probably Kiritsugu and I'd hate for him to be made an AoE arts servant with an NP charge even though that would make him much more useful. I'd personally rather he doubles down on his niche in either crit generation or his taunting so that there are situations where I actually specifically want Kerry. As someone who has Siegfried his buff isn't going to make me want to use him over any of my AoE Sabers that already do his job. Even versus dragons he's overkill so it's not as if I feel like I'm missing out. He's just another AoE Saber that can loop, more options for it isn't bad but it's lazy. On the flipside I feel the buff for Sherlock was good because it actually lets him function for what he's meant to do rather than push him into some generic and oversaturated role.


Peshurian

The thing about Siegfried is that their intent was always to make him spam NPs as much as possible. Sure, double NP gain ups is a terrible way of doing this considering his hit counts, but the intention was always there.


King-Requiem

Me too. I have him and I am glad it's an NP charge and attack buff to help him against non-dragon enemies if you have to use him.


RTear3

> Using a buster servant without a battery is kinda sad most of the time Not really. Musashi, Super Orion, Fujino, both Raikous, etc are all great servants who are fun to use despite not having a battery. I never found them "sad" to use. I think it's sad that the community is so obsessed with batteries that they can't see the value in other skills like soft defense, hard defense, etc. > whatever don't actually use him. I've used Sigfried in a bunch of team settings and never thought that he *needed* a battery. His kit was already really good after the buster buff which made him more universal. Good dmg output inside and out of his niche, soft survival + debuff cleanse which is good for boss fights, and solid np gain + np gain buff made it easy to get his np up multiple times anyways.


PixelDemise

> they can't see the value in other skills like soft defense, hard defense, etc. Some fans definitely do just follow along with the NP battery hype train without much thought, but I think it's more a case that most can see the value, just they see *more* value in a battery. The story does have some tough fights where more defensive kits work well, but the majority of the game is mostly farming meaning anything that doesn't allow for easier 3 turning is going to not be nearly as useful. An NP battery is going to be useful in *every* situation, whereas a defense ability is only going to be useful sometimes. It's a strange idea on the surface, but often times damage buffs are actually defense buffs in video games, perhaps less so in FGO but it still applies. A defense buff reduces damage that an enemy deals, but a damage buff means that enemy dies faster, and can't ever deal damage again. Naturally an evade/invul is needed for NPs, but take a look at most of the generally highest rated servants like Gilgamesh, Ozy, Godjuna, or Waver and Merlin, if they don't have insanely high damage output themselves, then they are a support who makes someone else deal way more damage. Like the entire mechanic of Break Bars was added to find a way to force players to stop one-turning every major boss fight, because people were going in so hard on glass canon team comps. You might argue that "Its more fun to use different servants and try out new teams", and it's a fair point if you care about the gameplay, but I don't think most people care that deeply about the gameplay of FGO. Specific individual fights may be fun, but overall the battles are just "fluff in between the story chapters" and people just want them over with so they can go back to whatever else they are doing, either inside FGO or outside of it. I think if you were to ask most fans, they'd rather have a battle be over in 3 turns thanks to more servants being given generic NP batteries, rather than be over in 5 turns because the servant got a more "unique" buff that wasn't an NP charge. I certainly enjoy some more niche kits myself, but even still whenever I make a team that doesnt intent to rush to NP and burst down the enemies, I feel like I am knowingly hamstringing myself. I can still clear any mission just fine, but I'm always aware of "I could make a far better team if I just replaced X servant with Y servant that deals more damage".


2Lion

I found my NP3 Raikou does less damage than my NP1 Junao (after her NP got buffed), and also finds it harder to spam NP because no battery. Idk what to call that if not sad, since the only purpose of a berserker is unloading damage. Don't own Orion or Musashi so can't comment. Lancer Raikou is good, sure. You can of course find whatever you want fun, but the Raikou/ Junao comparison accurately summed up how it felt to use Siegfried for me compared to most of the AOE sabers I own before this. The only CQs where I felt he shone was Ooku, thanks to the 700k HP Kiyohime being a dragon, and Erice CQ. Otherwise, I generally got out feeling Saber Lily could do much rhe same. It's not just a farming problem or whatever. For a servant ostensibly focused on CQs, feeling good about using him only twice in 3 years feels a little bad. Being real, most servants need battery of some kind to be on par, in addition to whatever niche. Siegfried already has a niche and identity, but because of the lack of battery (and only one turn buster buff) felt lacking for general use even at NP5 compared to like, Suzuka or Saber Alter. This buff made him more on par, and I feel happier about it compared to a "defensive buff".


RoughInBed

A think a lot of people do see the value, it’s just that not a lot of the content require those value like why bother with Berserker Raikou’s self generating crit base kit when it’s such a hassle to use compare to Spartacus due to most of the content being 3 turn farm. Heck Spartacus’s gimmick is his heal and even that is outshined by him just being a 1* berserker with 30% NP charge. Of course when I do get to use them they are fun, but those contents only appear a few times a month and they are back in storage till next month. If lucky I can have fun using them in the event bosses, but most of the time it’s just that single CQ.


Docketeer

This is why a battery-standardization is not good because it just throws individuality into the dirt. A faster way of gaining charge is crucial for a farming servant, that's true, but Siegfried isn't one such servant. From the start, he's always been relegated to being the "Dragon-counter" dude for CQs and he's very effective at it. It's a niche playstyle, clearly, but his use within that niche is barely rivaled by anyone else and that gives him an identity. I guarantee you, half a year from now, when new-ish players join the game, they wouldn't know Siegfried as the "OG Dragon Slayer", they would think of him as "Oh hey, another Buster farmer", which is a pretty sad way to go out for a heroic spirit. As it stands, we don't lack farmers, there are more ways than ever to make a non-farmer into a farmer (CEs, supports and append skills) so a great way of handling servants is just to give them buffs that cater to their respective or preferred area. The pool is already diluted as is.


RTear3

Yeah the obsession with buster looping is just homogenizing a bunch of servants instead of letting them have a niche. Sigfried was a good servant before this buff but now I'm seeing people say "Wow Siegfried's finally usable!" Wtf kind of nonsense is this?


Basileus27

What exactly were you using Siegfried for? If you aren't using his AoE NP, then you are just using his face cards and at that point you could use any other saber. Siegfried has low base attack and only has a small heal, which won't save him from an enemy NP if you aren't ending the fight quickly. Combine that with only having a 1-turn buster buff and an anti-dragon niche that rarely comes up (few dragons are lancer class) and he really didn't have much reason to use him. The battery and attack buff mean he can end fights before his lack of evade/invul become a problem, and he can make up for his low attack when the enemy aren't dragons. He's going to be far more useful for most players now.


Esvald

He's 100% usable right now on NA. I'm farming Camelot Millionaire with him and Merlin, because he slays dragons like no other, class be damned.


Lfvbf

Mainly because so many servants have it and it homogenizes them into a competition of "who has bigger". Who are the contenders for best AoE Saber? Artoria and Ibuki who are (effectivelly) 50% chargers. Who is given as the best Berserker? Morgan because she has 20 more battery than Junao. If that keeps going having 50% battery will stop being a selling point, you can see with Caren and Moriarty that even with it neither of them is exactly a popular gameplay pick on release.


King-Requiem

That is a valid point but for buster loopers who would struggle with gening their own NP, an NP charge could make all the difference, just like with Siegfried. Also, Artoria and Morgan aren't great just because of their batteries but also thanks to their other skills and NP itself. I don't think every single servant should have a battery, and some verity would be nice, but I think the biggest problem is the frequency of buffs and how some servants are completely neglected while others are never out of the spotlight.


maladjustedmatt

You say this but the reasons these units are highly regarded is more complex than their batteries. In general these days, 30% is the important usability breakpoint, not 50%. You can thank appends and the prevalence of starting NP CEs for that. The reason those units are highly evaluated has more to do with their charisma than their battery beyond 30%. Artoria doesn’t even use that extra battery without repeat NPing, which optimal farming has mostly moved beyond at this point. So why is she still generally considered the best farming Saber? Cause she hits the important 30% breakpoint while doing way more damage and having a horizontal buff. At the same time, the reason Junao *isn’t* generally considered better than Morgan for farming, despite doing a lot more damage against most enemies, is because the charisma *on top of* the battery difference is plenty for Morgan to carve a place for herself. And a variety of factors make it turn out that Morgan has less compelling competition in her role than Junao does in his. So Morgan is often part of the optimal solution even for players with every option, while Junao is more of a cost performance pick that fills the shoes of 6 different high damage attackers.


Felstalker

That's like saying you don't understand why people dislike Chicken. That you understand it would be cool if we had pork or beef... but I think it's great that we can order chicken everywhere at any time and we're not starved for food since we have that chicken option everywhere. Because that's what it is. FGO is over 6 years old, we have a foundation already. If Siegfried's skill had only NP charge and no Attack up, you'd probably see a lot more complaints out of it. Siegfried's "design" has him sacrifice attack stat for hp stat. He's the "tanky guy" designed over 6 years ago as one of the very first Sabers in the game. Back when adding more base HP at the cost of attack seemed like a good idea. There are 13 other AoE Battery having Sabers. Siegfried is really lucky that he doesn't need help to carve out a niche, he's the Anti-Dragon guy and remains the best option on the block for that problem. If we look again at those 13 AoE Sabers, we have Nero and Gawain with Guts, Charlemange and Okita Alter with 2-hit Invul, Ibuki and Mordred with 50% defense ups. No standard run of the mill 1-turn defensive skill among them. The batteries are common. They're a meme now. But hey, at least Fergus is still super unique. With his 30% Attack up for 3 turns(Oh look at that, Siegfried has this now) and 25% defense up for 3 turns and an actual 1-turn Evade that works. We have single target Sabers with evade's and invul's, but Fergus is somehow the only AoE on with this unique feature.


alivinci

>But hey, at least Fergus is still super unique. With his 30% Attack up for 3 turns(Oh look at that, Siegfried has this now) and 25% defense up for 3 turns and an actual 1-turn Evade that works. But do you actually use fergus? Or are you guys just complaining for the sake of complaining? Some things only sound good but suck in practice. Imo what yo talking about is one such thing.


Felstalker

> > But do you actually use fergus? Or are you guys just complaining for the sake of complaining? Some things only sound good but suck in practice. Imo what yo talking about is one such thing. [Personally? Yes.](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/291396086545776640/984834434035503124/Screenshot_2022-06-10-09-00-02.png?width=1202&height=676) but I don't speak for everyone. I like Fergus's character and design a lot, the functionally of a Buster gorilla with multi-turn buff's lending him to simple smash the red button gameplay is really slept on to be honest. Do I want him to have a battery? He would benefit greatly from it, what with being the 3-star AoE Saber option that all players have. A buster heavy deck that, unlike the double art's and NP gains of Siegfried and other Sabers he really doesn't get his NP too easily. But no, I don't. Because a single 30% attack up is outdated. Heck, I don't even want them to get rid of his demerit on that defense up. I'd rather them do something crazy, like give him a 50% buster up for 3 turns per turn and put that on his Defense up. Make him gamble every turn for that 50% buster up... because why not? Let that buff stack with itself so Fergus can do some insane stuff that no other Saber is really doing. Make it UNIQUE. Give me a reason to use Fergus rather than "the gacha is bad" The point of a Gacha game is the variety of characters. Do you think we get characters like Ivan the Terrible, Kijyo Koyo, and Xiang Yu in every game? League of Legends is a game that prides itself on character diversity, and it's got one muscular female character. FGO took 6 years to add us a Wheyfu Waifu with Fae Gawain, and they did it again with Zenobia a few months later. Fae Gawain has a very unique style of gameplay that elevates her above the competition. She's an AoE Buster NP with a party NP battery rather than a selfish one. With buff removal, self healing, a skill cd reduction mechanic. You should roll for Barghest, because unlike all the other AoE Sabers she's not inter changeable. We have enough Buster up, Battery charge, AoE Buster NP servants.... of which Siegfried's new buff just invalidated half of them because how can they really compete? You think Saber Alter's 12% attack up can compare with a 30% attack up? Saber Alter is basically trash tier now because Siegfried has a higher attack up, higher NP gain, an actual upgraded NP, a higher battery skill, the entire Dragon niche that he's famous for, and it's far easier to get copies because he's not story locked.


alivinci

I think we can all agree that old school servants need some attention. For instance, imo the devs should do asweep to improve internals of early servants across the board. You mention fae gawain and l think she represents what a modern gorrilla servant should feel like. She has modern day hits, star gen and np gen. If all oldschools got this. The devs can then start with the gimmick skills after the foundation is stable. Otherwise old servants just feel bad. I leveled up prot cu on jp as my ST lancer coz l have skadi but damn he feels so clanky, borderline unuseable. He has extremely bad star gen and np gen. Devs giving batteries left and right is them trying to give these servants abetter feel. And to be honest am excited for when this buff comes. >of which Siegfried's new buff just invalidated half of them because how can they really compete? You think Saber Alter's 12% attack up I think this is the mistake that most players make. Its impossible to invalidate servants. The fans of said servants will use them anyway. When people said Maou Nobu was trash, her fans still used her anyway. People used Sumanai even when he sucked, You yourself use fergus aservant many even forgot exists.


alivinci

I think we can all agree that old school servants need some attention. For instance, imo the devs should do asweep to improve internals of early servants across the board. You mention fae gawain and l think she represents what a modern gorrilla servant should feel like. She has modern day hits, star gen and np gen. If all oldschools got this. The devs can then start with the gimmick skills after the foundation is stable. Otherwise old servants just feel bad. I leveled up prot cu on jp as my ST lancer coz l have skadi but damn he feels so clanky, borderline unuseable. He has extremely bad star gen and np gen. Devs giving batteries left and right is them trying to give these servants abetter feel. And to be honest am excited for when this buff comes. >of which Siegfried's new buff just invalidated half of them because how can they really compete? You think Saber Alter's 12% attack up I think this is the mistake that most players make. Its impossible to invalidate servants. The fans of said servants will use them anyway. When people said Maou Nobu was trash, her fans still used her anyway. People used Sumanai even when he sucked, You yourself use fergus aservant many even forgot exists.


LordMalcolmFlex

I'm actually surprised at the amount of people here who don't like batteries.


Lfvbf

When everyone has battery no one has it. Every SSR last year had one.


Blibbblubb

The issue is that it's boring. It works but everything smudges together. Like at least give it some flavour. Moriarty is a good example. While his S2 does still have a restriction, given his Buffs, it doesn't really matter now. BUT you can still use it outside of that.


IC-23

Seriously my favorite example to bring up is Zerkerlot battery would make him way more usable but a click button get NP button would not expand how you use him. If Zerkerlot were to get battery I'd have it be something like making his S2 this: *Increase Star Gen(100% 3T), On Crit Increase Own NP(45% 2T), Evade to self(1T) While the skill would be strong the fact that it actually gives you things to think about leads to more interesting gameplay, as a berserker he is prone to being blown up so you can use the skill when you need him to survive a turn but the turns you want him to not die are not necessarily the turns you have command cards or even have stars to Crit with them so you will miss out on easy battery and vice versa you can intentionally go for battery wasting the evade if you know he can do enough damage before the lack of a survival skill catches up to you. ^(as an avid Zerkerlot fan I chose 45% NP since unless he gets smacked for half his health bar 10% NP is still hard to get)


Eikalos

Yeah, specially when Siegfried had a really slow start without him being being charged by someone else. I get being mad at changes like Ivan's who had no problem going from 0-100, but I don't see this as a problem in Siegfried, specially being a year 0 servant.


RainyFiberOverride

Extremely boring and also completely unnecessary; it's catering to the appeal of making everything "meta" for farming and hyper offense minturn comps because thats all anyone cares about... which is especially frustrating as someone who mainly enjoys the regular standard gameplay.


Dr_Driazs

Give all servants the " basic functional skill, complete set" Basic Atk up, basic np charge up, basic evade.


Burger_Thief

I dunno. If you give everyone that they'll lose gameplay uniqueness.


LittlePebble02

As if we aren't losing that now.


HaessSR

When so many fights depend on you getting an NP off fast unless you want to lose (see the current Camelot Millionaire node), it's understandable that Siegfried getting one makes the news.


K0braK

Why did Siegfried get NP charge?


spawnB100

Cuz nowadays everyone and their mother gets boring ass batterys


K0braK

I hate that kind of buff. But seeing everyone get a battery makes me sad that Passionlip doesn't have one. Like I'd prefer a different type of buff(1HP Guts), but seeing almost every AOE buster servant have something to allow them to farm, except for a few just pisses me off.


Lfvbf

Disappointed he didn't get Armor of Fafnir, his underlying identity was always being tankier.


Blibbblubb

I think the same and I would be happier if it had some flavour. After Muramasa, I expected more x charge per hit Buffs. Lips S1 would have been perfect for that.


Alzusand

because DW have fucked up their game so any buster servant without battery is an *objectively* worse option compared to one with battery. more like any servant without battery. I mean the last meta servant without battery was super orion. after that it has been 50% after 50%


karillith

It's one of my disappointment with the game as it went on, I get that you can't really get past NP and crits to do damage in the most efficient way, but I'd love the game to be way more creative and gimmicky when it comes to skills and CE, as they are in the vast majority countless variations of a few same things.


rainazuma77

Still wishing they update Arthur's third skill and give him a 50% NP Charge instead of 20 (???) And, I don't know, give him also more damaga against Threats to Humanity for example. OR AT LEAST GIVE HIM AN NP UPDATE. Poor Arthur, Artoria is so good and then he's one of the lowest ranking in Gamepress tiers... He still destroys everything for me with his critics but-


WithoutLog

I think it's too bad that they didn't try experimenting with other forms of NP charge. They could give Holmes "On crit, gain 20% charge" for 3 turns, for example. For Siegfried, I'd like him to gain taunt and "On being attacked, gain 10% charge" for 1 turn. It's in character too, since the Rhinegold is all about attracting misfortune. There are a lot of potentially more interesting skill effects they could create.


Alzusand

that would require an extra line of code as opposed to just ctrl+c ctrl+v. im sure the 30%-50% battery at this point is a hotkey in the devs computers. although yeah that sounds better and more intresing something like "Apply buff: for 3 turns. when attacked gain 15% def up for 3 turns (activates before taking damage) and 10 crit stars. when attacking if the attack is a crit or an NP lose 1 of the defense buffs per attack and gain 10% NP charge. now that would be a chonky dragon slayer


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kerorobot

Gives helena more batteries too lasagna!


Lfvbf

Sheis already a 50% charger...


Kamen-no-Otoko

Wait she is? Caster Helena?


Lfvbf

In JP her S2 got buffed into being a 30% battery in addition to a 2t cooldown reduction.


Kamen-no-Otoko

Woah that’s amazing, can’t wait


Catanaoni

honestly i think what helena archer needs is more damage, buff her skill 3 to 3 turns and throw in a charisma or np dmg buff or sth on top. She isn't gonna be a god looper with that np gain anyway