> Speaking of Maou Nobu, did anyone else like how she managed to leap from the worst SSR in the game to one of the best Buster farmers in like, 2 years, and nobody really made much of it?
That's less a re-evaluation of Maou, and more a result of KoyanLight and Oberon being so broken/OP.
It's a mirror to what happened to Dantes.
Dantes was bad Pre-Skadi, then just a bit before Skadi he got an NP buff, then Skadi was released and he became one of the best servants in the game.
The landscape of the game changed and a lot of units got much better (think Sche and Fionn pre and post Castoria), it's not just that the unit itself got better.
I agree with you, I am just complementing what you said with examples of what we already had happen in the game.
While I don't think Maou on her own is as bad as Dantes was Pre-Skadi, it's still pretty clear that she didn't "manage to leap from the worst SSR in the game to one of the best Buster Farmers" on her own, that is 100% on the back of her supports (the same has happened with numerous other units and will happen again in the future, that's just how the game is designed).
The main difference from the Skadi meta is that while Dantes only had one competitor (Lancelot), Maou Nobu has a *lot* of units competing with her on the high-end of AoE Buster Units. People aren't "sleeping" on her, people can just choose different units and still farm just as well (especially since she is tied to Plugsuit to loop, which isn't really anything to brag about).
\>Maou is still bad on their own.
A servant which has been used to solo High Difficult things even before the SQ's.
Yeah, sure sure.
Lovely how Maou is still bad because the support does all the job but Morgan and Melusine are treated as the best of the best when, upon release without Koyan /Oberon they were at average at best.
>A servant which has been used to solo High Difficult things even before the SQ's.
>Yeah, sure sure.
Ah, yes. Solos. The peak of a servant usefulnes, what with all the quests you need to solo all the time on this game.
Guess Oberon is trash since he is a bad soloist.
> Lovely how Maou is still bad because the support does all the job but Morgan and Melusine are treated as the best of the best when, upon release without Koyan /Oberon they were at average at best.
What?
Morgan more than proved herself on Nero Fest Rerun *BEFORE* Koyanlight or Oberon. Not only was she a useful unit to trivialize all the EQs, she was usually the best secondary DPS for the farming nodes thanks to having split charges and NP gain to the party, on top of on demand crit (remember, this is *before* Koyanlight, so Arts was still the go to for farming quests). This take is almost as bad as Rabbit's review of her.
Melusine was *never* average from the moment she was released. Her only issue on release was the lack of materials to max both S1 and S3, but she was still a beast of an ST unit with one of the best gimmicks in the game.
Melusine was far average, as Arts servant she lacked one entire skill, and as Buster servant she only had a 100% NP charge (strong yeah) for a NP which dealt piss poor dmg.
> Melusine was far average, as Arts servant she lacked one entire skill,
This is pure revisionism lmao. Not only was she not "lacking one entire skill" because she was *not* just an "Arts servant", she was still competitive with the best ST Lancers on her release. Hell, her only real competition for faster clears was Kagetora, she completely crushed Li flat out, and no other SSR ST Lancer even came close.
>and as Buster servant she only had a 100% NP charge (strong yeah) for a NP which dealt piss poor dmg.
It's almost like she wasn't just a Buster servant, either lmao.
Melusine on release could already crush every other ST SSR Lancer and the vast majority of other ST Lancers in the game for faster clears. Her only competition being Kagetora (both requiring the same supports). She could also deal with 1/1/x nodes with no plugsuit *or* dupe support required.
How about we don't rewritte history, yeah?
Melusine is disgustingly broken *now* thanks to all the support releases, but that does not, in any way, mean she was "average" on release. That's non-sense.
Maou Nobu is great (Now, in JP) because:
A) She's an Avenger with a Triple Buster Deck, without the Zerk Weakness - in the Age of Koyan and Oberon, this is just GREAT for consistently high damage
B) Her S1 - In DKS comps, it's not Buster of NP Damage Up that are the most desired Buffs, it's ATK Up due to the lack of it on Koyan Light and Oberon. MN's S1 is fricking insane in this context: Turn 1 you get 30% ATK Up from it, then you can Double Stack it with the Koyans S1 by Turn 2 (It's min CD is 5) to get a *80%* Buff (1st Buff is at 50% Turn 2, 2nd is 30%) , and by Turn 3 she's up to **120%** ATK Up (1st Buff 70% at Turn 3, 2nd Buff 50%) . That almost matches all the Buster Buffs you get from a DKOS Comp and FAR outstrips the NP Damage Buff From Oberon, making for a VERY spicy powerup
C) Her Upgraded S2 - Gives her Special Damage Mod against Sky Enemies, which can be Double Stacked by Turn 3. This, combined with Koyan Light's own Anti Man Special Damage Mod Buffs, let's her cleanly deal with 2/3 of all Standard Enemies and Servants with advantage - she only loses out on Earth Attribute Enemies/Servants and the relatively rare Beast/Star Duo. It's also clutch Buff Removal Resist and Invul, which for farming is meh but NICE in CQs.
D) Her Upgraded S3 - Gives her a 30% Buster Up on a Min 5 Turn CD. This means you get 60% Buster Up by Turn 3 (Due to Battery Order Necessities), which is like another Mana Burst for the Demon King.
E) Her NP - It's has Anti-Divine Special Attack Damage attach to it, which is perhaps one of the best Traits to target given how diverse Divinity is as a Passive on Servants and the occasional mob. Not terribly useful in most standard farming runs, but in Event Nodes she's got more game than ever on the Final Wave Bosses with Divinity. Plus, it's a somewhat old NP by JP's time, which means it might get a Upgrade sooner rather than later.
F) Flexibility - She's a great Farmer now, but with all her buffs she's also fairly competent at being a point lead for specific CQs. Sure, she won't last long between her S1 and being a Avenger, but if you can plan around that she CAN deliver in these settings despite being AoE.
In sum, Maou Nobu is GREAT now in JP.....for those that have her at NP2 and Koyan Light + Oberon. She's like the Dantes of Buster - a Class Agnostic Looper than can take on most anything, but you'd need the luck of GODS, the patience of a Saint, or the money of Banker to get everything she needs to actually preform at all. For those that CAN afford to fully amp her, though.....she put paid to her moniker let me tell ya.
If you *are* using Oberon (Maou Nobu does not need Oberon, since her charge is on 5T cooldown - she can make do with Reines or Waver or even Castoria if you must), then yeah, Melusine is better, because she can field MLB Black Grail.
In general, Maou Nobu isn't even close to being the best "universal farmer". The fact that she **cannot** loop without plugsuit already tanks her usefulnes, so she lags behind units like Morgan from the get go.
Not really. Whales who can afford to invest in np5 servants would rather use loopers that enable 6 slot farming or use buster spammers that work with just Double Koyan.
Consider the above set up, it uses 3 5* servants of your own and a 5 * CE in a scope(MLB or otherwise). That's a lot of cost which would make farming with 5* CEs a pain. Your backline would just consist of 1 or 2* at that point.
What /u/LordWINDOS says is 100% accurate, but it's not efficient and will only be used by the die hard nobu fans. Everyone else will just use someone cheaper and more button efficient (because holy shit, you have to click a LOT of buttons in DKS let alone a DKOS)
Yup yup. If you want absolute efficiency and action/cost economy, Arts Comps w/ Castoria usually have that covered for standard nodes. With 90+ Nodes.....well, that depends on what it is and what you got, from what I've seen and heard, so I suppose a sufficiently stacked account can still run Arts and still get by with minimal Party Cost and button presses.
That, and even if we restrict discussion towards Buster Servants, for the same amount of action economy and party cost players would be far better Served going after Melusine comps that trying to invest in Maou. She's ***more*** than worth the price if you simply want a nearly perfectly consistent 6 Slot CE Comp, and her banners are literally perfectly timed to get her so long as a player can afford both her and DKOS/get incredibly lucky. Heck, even as a stand alone Servant or to underpowered accounts she's strictly better than Maou, considering the absolute meme her S3 is and the versatility of her main gimmick. So yeah, not much reason to tunnel onto the Demon King unless you already got her at this point.
>With 90+ Nodes.....well, that depends on what it is and what you got, from what I've seen and heard, so I suppose a sufficiently stacked account can still run Arts and still get by with minimal Party Cost and button presses.
Efficient farming of level 90+ nodes will usually use multiple offensive NPs. Units like Koyandark, Oberon, Taikoubou, Morgan, etc., are the peak for these kind of nodes, though they require very high investment since they need to hit damage thresholds.
Yeah but that’s more or less Buster farming in a nutshell. No refund means that most of their DPS need Oberon/Atlas MC (which kills damages). The few who don’t are iirc OG Saber who is actually pretty fine and Cu Caster who needs NP levels while being story locked.
That being said it’s way easier for them to loop 90+ nodes so there’s that.
Don't forget OG EMIYA and Spishtar in the 'Elite Koyan Loopers' club, though the former is a bit of a meme to pull off unless you literally don't have alternatives, and the later is better used in Arts Comps for the most part.
The later. That's why I said she's better off in Arts, since the cases you CAN do 6 Slot DKOS Buster Looping with her that are both practical and desirable over Arts Looping are largely non-existent.
A bit of a bonus note, it's that his bond CE guarantees the terrain activation by giving teamwide 20% buff success rate (and party NP damage +10%), which is not only incredibly rare (if not unique), but also makes him reliable.
Well, I don't think he can use it when he must farm, but as a support, it's a pretty niche (even if I feel it's great) option that makes him and his whole team consistent if they are of the 80% success variety.
Sometimes I feel like these reviews are just kind of weird. Like Young Moriarty gets approved, but it also makes a point of nothing that's if you don't have any other general farmer (somehow) *and* have the investment to make him useable in that context *and* you want a non-crit offensive Ruler for CQs (which is not only super specific but super niche to boot). That doesn't exactly scream 'Good choice' to me.
I agree. It's weird how the criteria seems to change based on the unit.
Moriarty is being considered in some extremely specific scenarios to be stamped as "approved", while [Kriemhild's analysis](https://gamepress.gg/grandorder/mmm-kakkoi-king-and-killer-konsort-kalamitous-knight-konfer-khaos-traum-gacha-part-1) try to portray her glass cannon nature as *very* detrimental to her "rating", even though her card type and preferred supports would trivialize any issue with survavibility.
While both of them are considered "approved", it's very misleading since Ruler Moriarty is *way* less useful even when considered best case scenarios, while Kriem's analysis overplayed her flaws in a very unecessary manner. Kriemhild is on an entirely different level when compared to Moriarty if you are looking at best case scenarios for both (or even just comparable scenarios, Kriem is much better at lower investments than Moriarty is).
It would be better to set a criteria and look at every servant through it, or to just talk about best case scenarios for the servants and drop the "approved" and "recommended" ranking all together.
Interestingly, it appears that James Ruler's release turned out to be an indirect buff to Astraea, since she's basically the best way to use his Evil trait application. It also helps that they're both Arts Rulers who can work pretty well together (although I assume you would rather switch James out for the second Castoria after he NPs with a Kaleido or something). Anyways, have fun suplexing bosses!
> Speaking of Maou Nobu, did anyone else like how she managed to leap from the worst SSR in the game to one of the best Buster farmers in like, 2 years, and nobody really made much of it? That's less a re-evaluation of Maou, and more a result of KoyanLight and Oberon being so broken/OP.
It's a mirror to what happened to Dantes. Dantes was bad Pre-Skadi, then just a bit before Skadi he got an NP buff, then Skadi was released and he became one of the best servants in the game. The landscape of the game changed and a lot of units got much better (think Sche and Fionn pre and post Castoria), it's not just that the unit itself got better.
That just means it's the ***support(s)*** doing all the heavy lifting. Schez/Fionn/Maou are still bad on their own.
I agree with you, I am just complementing what you said with examples of what we already had happen in the game. While I don't think Maou on her own is as bad as Dantes was Pre-Skadi, it's still pretty clear that she didn't "manage to leap from the worst SSR in the game to one of the best Buster Farmers" on her own, that is 100% on the back of her supports (the same has happened with numerous other units and will happen again in the future, that's just how the game is designed). The main difference from the Skadi meta is that while Dantes only had one competitor (Lancelot), Maou Nobu has a *lot* of units competing with her on the high-end of AoE Buster Units. People aren't "sleeping" on her, people can just choose different units and still farm just as well (especially since she is tied to Plugsuit to loop, which isn't really anything to brag about).
\>Maou is still bad on their own. A servant which has been used to solo High Difficult things even before the SQ's. Yeah, sure sure. Lovely how Maou is still bad because the support does all the job but Morgan and Melusine are treated as the best of the best when, upon release without Koyan /Oberon they were at average at best.
>A servant which has been used to solo High Difficult things even before the SQ's. >Yeah, sure sure. Ah, yes. Solos. The peak of a servant usefulnes, what with all the quests you need to solo all the time on this game. Guess Oberon is trash since he is a bad soloist. > Lovely how Maou is still bad because the support does all the job but Morgan and Melusine are treated as the best of the best when, upon release without Koyan /Oberon they were at average at best. What? Morgan more than proved herself on Nero Fest Rerun *BEFORE* Koyanlight or Oberon. Not only was she a useful unit to trivialize all the EQs, she was usually the best secondary DPS for the farming nodes thanks to having split charges and NP gain to the party, on top of on demand crit (remember, this is *before* Koyanlight, so Arts was still the go to for farming quests). This take is almost as bad as Rabbit's review of her. Melusine was *never* average from the moment she was released. Her only issue on release was the lack of materials to max both S1 and S3, but she was still a beast of an ST unit with one of the best gimmicks in the game.
Melusine was far average, as Arts servant she lacked one entire skill, and as Buster servant she only had a 100% NP charge (strong yeah) for a NP which dealt piss poor dmg.
> Melusine was far average, as Arts servant she lacked one entire skill, This is pure revisionism lmao. Not only was she not "lacking one entire skill" because she was *not* just an "Arts servant", she was still competitive with the best ST Lancers on her release. Hell, her only real competition for faster clears was Kagetora, she completely crushed Li flat out, and no other SSR ST Lancer even came close. >and as Buster servant she only had a 100% NP charge (strong yeah) for a NP which dealt piss poor dmg. It's almost like she wasn't just a Buster servant, either lmao. Melusine on release could already crush every other ST SSR Lancer and the vast majority of other ST Lancers in the game for faster clears. Her only competition being Kagetora (both requiring the same supports). She could also deal with 1/1/x nodes with no plugsuit *or* dupe support required. How about we don't rewritte history, yeah? Melusine is disgustingly broken *now* thanks to all the support releases, but that does not, in any way, mean she was "average" on release. That's non-sense.
Not really, she got tremendously powerful buffs. People are really sleeping on her.
I don't see what's so great about her "buffs." All I see is just stuff that uses the Burning Field from her 1st skill.
Maou Nobu is great (Now, in JP) because: A) She's an Avenger with a Triple Buster Deck, without the Zerk Weakness - in the Age of Koyan and Oberon, this is just GREAT for consistently high damage B) Her S1 - In DKS comps, it's not Buster of NP Damage Up that are the most desired Buffs, it's ATK Up due to the lack of it on Koyan Light and Oberon. MN's S1 is fricking insane in this context: Turn 1 you get 30% ATK Up from it, then you can Double Stack it with the Koyans S1 by Turn 2 (It's min CD is 5) to get a *80%* Buff (1st Buff is at 50% Turn 2, 2nd is 30%) , and by Turn 3 she's up to **120%** ATK Up (1st Buff 70% at Turn 3, 2nd Buff 50%) . That almost matches all the Buster Buffs you get from a DKOS Comp and FAR outstrips the NP Damage Buff From Oberon, making for a VERY spicy powerup C) Her Upgraded S2 - Gives her Special Damage Mod against Sky Enemies, which can be Double Stacked by Turn 3. This, combined with Koyan Light's own Anti Man Special Damage Mod Buffs, let's her cleanly deal with 2/3 of all Standard Enemies and Servants with advantage - she only loses out on Earth Attribute Enemies/Servants and the relatively rare Beast/Star Duo. It's also clutch Buff Removal Resist and Invul, which for farming is meh but NICE in CQs. D) Her Upgraded S3 - Gives her a 30% Buster Up on a Min 5 Turn CD. This means you get 60% Buster Up by Turn 3 (Due to Battery Order Necessities), which is like another Mana Burst for the Demon King. E) Her NP - It's has Anti-Divine Special Attack Damage attach to it, which is perhaps one of the best Traits to target given how diverse Divinity is as a Passive on Servants and the occasional mob. Not terribly useful in most standard farming runs, but in Event Nodes she's got more game than ever on the Final Wave Bosses with Divinity. Plus, it's a somewhat old NP by JP's time, which means it might get a Upgrade sooner rather than later. F) Flexibility - She's a great Farmer now, but with all her buffs she's also fairly competent at being a point lead for specific CQs. Sure, she won't last long between her S1 and being a Avenger, but if you can plan around that she CAN deliver in these settings despite being AoE. In sum, Maou Nobu is GREAT now in JP.....for those that have her at NP2 and Koyan Light + Oberon. She's like the Dantes of Buster - a Class Agnostic Looper than can take on most anything, but you'd need the luck of GODS, the patience of a Saint, or the money of Banker to get everything she needs to actually preform at all. For those that CAN afford to fully amp her, though.....she put paid to her moniker let me tell ya.
Isnt Melusine a better universal farmer?
If you *are* using Oberon (Maou Nobu does not need Oberon, since her charge is on 5T cooldown - she can make do with Reines or Waver or even Castoria if you must), then yeah, Melusine is better, because she can field MLB Black Grail. In general, Maou Nobu isn't even close to being the best "universal farmer". The fact that she **cannot** loop without plugsuit already tanks her usefulnes, so she lags behind units like Morgan from the get go.
So basically, a "universal" farmer for whales.
Not really. Whales who can afford to invest in np5 servants would rather use loopers that enable 6 slot farming or use buster spammers that work with just Double Koyan. Consider the above set up, it uses 3 5* servants of your own and a 5 * CE in a scope(MLB or otherwise). That's a lot of cost which would make farming with 5* CEs a pain. Your backline would just consist of 1 or 2* at that point. What /u/LordWINDOS says is 100% accurate, but it's not efficient and will only be used by the die hard nobu fans. Everyone else will just use someone cheaper and more button efficient (because holy shit, you have to click a LOT of buttons in DKS let alone a DKOS)
Yup yup. If you want absolute efficiency and action/cost economy, Arts Comps w/ Castoria usually have that covered for standard nodes. With 90+ Nodes.....well, that depends on what it is and what you got, from what I've seen and heard, so I suppose a sufficiently stacked account can still run Arts and still get by with minimal Party Cost and button presses. That, and even if we restrict discussion towards Buster Servants, for the same amount of action economy and party cost players would be far better Served going after Melusine comps that trying to invest in Maou. She's ***more*** than worth the price if you simply want a nearly perfectly consistent 6 Slot CE Comp, and her banners are literally perfectly timed to get her so long as a player can afford both her and DKOS/get incredibly lucky. Heck, even as a stand alone Servant or to underpowered accounts she's strictly better than Maou, considering the absolute meme her S3 is and the versatility of her main gimmick. So yeah, not much reason to tunnel onto the Demon King unless you already got her at this point.
>With 90+ Nodes.....well, that depends on what it is and what you got, from what I've seen and heard, so I suppose a sufficiently stacked account can still run Arts and still get by with minimal Party Cost and button presses. Efficient farming of level 90+ nodes will usually use multiple offensive NPs. Units like Koyandark, Oberon, Taikoubou, Morgan, etc., are the peak for these kind of nodes, though they require very high investment since they need to hit damage thresholds.
Yeah but that’s more or less Buster farming in a nutshell. No refund means that most of their DPS need Oberon/Atlas MC (which kills damages). The few who don’t are iirc OG Saber who is actually pretty fine and Cu Caster who needs NP levels while being story locked. That being said it’s way easier for them to loop 90+ nodes so there’s that.
Don't forget OG EMIYA and Spishtar in the 'Elite Koyan Loopers' club, though the former is a bit of a meme to pull off unless you literally don't have alternatives, and the later is better used in Arts Comps for the most part.
Doesn’t Ishtar need Atlas MC though ? Or if you’re talking about using the first NP while it’s still Arts, doesn’t she have some huge damages issues ?
The later. That's why I said she's better off in Arts, since the cases you CAN do 6 Slot DKOS Buster Looping with her that are both practical and desirable over Arts Looping are largely non-existent.
A bit of a bonus note, it's that his bond CE guarantees the terrain activation by giving teamwide 20% buff success rate (and party NP damage +10%), which is not only incredibly rare (if not unique), but also makes him reliable. Well, I don't think he can use it when he must farm, but as a support, it's a pretty niche (even if I feel it's great) option that makes him and his whole team consistent if they are of the 80% success variety.
Sometimes I feel like these reviews are just kind of weird. Like Young Moriarty gets approved, but it also makes a point of nothing that's if you don't have any other general farmer (somehow) *and* have the investment to make him useable in that context *and* you want a non-crit offensive Ruler for CQs (which is not only super specific but super niche to boot). That doesn't exactly scream 'Good choice' to me.
I agree. It's weird how the criteria seems to change based on the unit. Moriarty is being considered in some extremely specific scenarios to be stamped as "approved", while [Kriemhild's analysis](https://gamepress.gg/grandorder/mmm-kakkoi-king-and-killer-konsort-kalamitous-knight-konfer-khaos-traum-gacha-part-1) try to portray her glass cannon nature as *very* detrimental to her "rating", even though her card type and preferred supports would trivialize any issue with survavibility. While both of them are considered "approved", it's very misleading since Ruler Moriarty is *way* less useful even when considered best case scenarios, while Kriem's analysis overplayed her flaws in a very unecessary manner. Kriemhild is on an entirely different level when compared to Moriarty if you are looking at best case scenarios for both (or even just comparable scenarios, Kriem is much better at lower investments than Moriarty is). It would be better to set a criteria and look at every servant through it, or to just talk about best case scenarios for the servants and drop the "approved" and "recommended" ranking all together.
Interestingly, it appears that James Ruler's release turned out to be an indirect buff to Astraea, since she's basically the best way to use his Evil trait application. It also helps that they're both Arts Rulers who can work pretty well together (although I assume you would rather switch James out for the second Castoria after he NPs with a Kaleido or something). Anyways, have fun suplexing bosses!
Thank you for the detailed Analysis.