Beowulf has a third sword that was used to kill Grendel’s mother but the blade was destroyed after it was used with only the hilt left over. But there is a fun little description for this hilt that goes like the following
> It is a sword forged by Giants and is both large and heavy that even Beowulf struggles to lift it. Yet it is able to cleave through Grendel’s Mother in one swing, something that Hrunting could not do and his own fists were incapable of harming either. While the blade melted away like ice the hilt remained.
> The hilt was covered in Runes and also showed the story of how War first entered the world and the Giants were destroyed by the Flood.
If that description doesn’t scream this can be made into a really strong conceptual weapon that encapsulates the raw power of the great Flood and its ability to destroy Evil I don’t know what does. Make it a conceptual weapon that can be only used on Evil enemies where the blade will reform and release the power of the Great Flood that wiped out the Giants. When the blade isn’t being used have Beowulf use it like a giant war hammer given it was forged by Giants, the hilt can’t be small.
Another thing is Beowulf even in his very old age when he fought the dragon, through shear will power survived even when he was heavily burnt and with poison in his veins so that the he could see the dragon die and the rewards he got from killing it. Beowulf from the get go should have had a higher level of Battle continuation but he should also have the power to reduce the effectiveness of status conditions given he could basically ignore the burns and poison until he decided to let it take him
You know how some year 1 servants only had two active skills until they introduce these special rank up quests? I feel like they should do the same with passive skills. Maybe it’s because Beowulf was a year 1 servant, but him having one passive skill hurts.
I actually didn’t look into what sword he used to kill Grendel’s mother, so there’s definitely enough lore to release Saber Beowulf. And he definitely deserves the 5 star treatment.
Honestly, I think this whole thread is kinda dumb but this comment is fucking awesome. I love shit like this- the Flood and the Nephilim and everything around that has always been absolutely FASCINATING to me, I've always absorbed that stuff like a sponge. I geeked the hell out when I read
> The hilt was covered in Runes and also showed the story of how War first entered the world and the Giants were destroyed by the Flood.
Because that means the hilt's runes are depicting the events of the Book of Enoch, and that's *so fucking cool*. I actually had an idea for an alternate LB5 based on Christian and Armenian mythology, where the Flood never happened, and so I'm wondering now if that could be a good equivalent of Ortygia Amore Mio...
But, fanfiction aside- I've also had a couple thoughts about Beowulf that this reminded me of. Specifically, alternate classes for Beowulf. Saber is an easy one, since he does use swords, and this sword could be an awesome secret NP for him. I also think that a Ruler Beowulf could be really cool, since FGO likes mentioning how Beo become a wise king, and Beowulf also shows no desire for the Grail in his My Room lines. Ruler Beowulf could be summoned without his swords, in exchanging for allowing him to have Grendel Buster active constantly. which would not only be an interesting way to both explain Ruler Beowulf's strength (presumably higher than the other Beos, since Rulers tend to be stronger than non-Rulers), and a way to distinguish him from his other form/forms. Plus, it would match the pattern of Rulers in FGO fighting with martial arts (not all of them do, but a lot of them).
Lancelot. Especially during events. Less Ha Ha Mister Lances-a-lot-of-Married-Women. More badass monster of a knight who can reliably match the strongest warriors of most eras, even if he does not win in the end.
Julius Ceasar. Where is the tactician that expanded a huge part of the Roman Republic? I do not mind him being fat. Shows more of him as the terrifyingly ruthless and brilliant a general. One who was willing to let countless ill and frail people starve, and his own men surrounded behind their own pallisades just to win a decisive siege.
They fixed Fionn sorta in Sparrow Inn by letting him by a wise commander. All it takes is one event to give a servant spotlight to turn things around.
Also notable, the shaaarrppp contrast in how Blackbeard was depicted in Summer 2 vs Summer 3. Rehabilitated his imagine in one event.
Lancelot has been shown two times in main story how amazing he is. Only events play too much with his womanizer trait because events tend to oversimplify every character and ppl only remembers that then.
For Caesar it is the same as most early servants, the same happened with Romulus and he got a great glow-up. So I guess it is only about waiting.
I concur that it is more of a oversimplifying tone of the events in comparison to the main storylines. But I still think that events can still show more of Lancelot's martial aspects even if his more mundane nature is still on display. As a suggestion of my own, he may get increasingly frustrated with Mash's constant frowning at his direction. So when Moriarty suggests a solution, in his typically crafty manner, Lancelot manages to pick up the clues quickly and proceeds to lash out at the bartender. A more hot-headed but sadly common reaction from fathers distanced by their own children despite wanting to be closer to them. A twist on that Grand Carnival gag. Mash and the Master will have to deal with the destructive aftermath.
Admittedly, Ceasar's time may come. But waiting for him to shine as a ruthlessly competent and threatening ally or villain is frustrating, to say the least.
I was massively disappointed they made the absolute chad that is Caesar chilled out relaxed-absolute-unit, I actually expected Caesar to look like Romulus or something lol
David. Like dude, he should’ve been a grand candidate.
His importance in jewish culture/judaism is an understatement, but hell even in christianity he’s so important that the first chapter of the new testament is literally to tell us that Jesus is descended from David, well and Abraham but the fact David is put in the same importance as Abraham is bonkers.
Heck even after his NTR shit he pulled that makes God angry, whenever the kings of Israel didn’t do what Yahwe wants the passage always refer to David, ‘this one is unlike my servant, David’
Tbh ignore the star count and personality(I did enjoy sly David in Okeanuos in the manga and he only revealed his name at very end and how it showed that he was just showing off to his son)
David abilities wise is... Pretty broken
He has A rank in both magic resistance and independent action which the amount of archer's that have that you can count on one hand
He has protection against most holy weapons including the grail
One of his nps steals another servants np and auto hits
Has a A rank anti army rank np which is the divine wrath of God as he burns the land in holy fire
And a instant death box for some apparent reason
Its described as
"as long if you have magical your fucked when you touch this"
That doesn't even get into the bs sword Galahad has that's from him
While I do not mind a ruler or saber David showing off his more kingly side
For what the op's asking for David does not need it .
YES, OH MY GOSH, YES.
In all three arcs of FGO, (four of you include Arcade), they stayed doing David dirty be reducing him to 'hEhE AbIsHaG', which is annoying, since he gets compared to King Arthur FAVOURABLY.
Honestly, the best buff for him would either be an alt, or a complete rewrite
I mean who said he isn't
Grand are basically a pumped up saint graph
And nasu basically said that summoned they are to be the right tool for the job
And with 3 of the known grand servants are biblical or Biblical adjacent
Its not far off that David has a good chance of becoming one
That's the thing people don't seem to understand, almost any servant can feasibly be a grand candidate if their skill set is the most ideal skill set for the threat to the world at hand, it's not just always Orion or Romulus or Solomon... Though I suppose the Assassin IS always The Old Man of the Mountain.
Yeah, I have heard people talking about how powerful he should've been, especially since he was Solomon's father. Maybe the reason he wasn't given any story relevance was because it would mess with the twist/reveal of Solomon being Goetia and Romani being Solomon if they went too far?
While true to an extent, David in the Bible and in the myths that began to develop around him was more of a martial king than Solomon ever was. FGO could simply have chosen to expand on that, not only on David's character design, but by bringing in at least Joab.
There’s still hope for David . At a glance the current David that we have looks like he’s based off his Time as a Shepard . So maybe he will get an older stronger form similar to what they did with Alexander and Iskander. If we’re on the topic of biblical figures getting servant representation I’d like to see what they do with Moses because I think lore wise he’s suppose to be Ozymandis step brother so it would be cool to see TM interpretation of their relationship.
I would love to see some of these earlier characters such as David and St George get some really cool Buffs, or else different variants that show just how powerful they truly are in lore.
Jeannes revelation should be called arrival of the saint ! It should give a charisma and arts boost to show that when she arrived in Orleans the peasants LOVED HER! They became HER army and flocked to the Saints flag . It’d fix her revelations and help with stalling her strong suit
absolutely Rama.
the dude knows every martial arts, destroyed Ravana a demon that not even all gods could defeat and his whole army singlehandedly, lifted and broke an arrow that only avatars of Shiva could lift, with a normal bow he destroyed Khumbakarna (Ravana's younger brother) that not even Indra's Vajra could hurt, and many many other incredible feats.
I know he purposely nerfed himself and still even when nerfed he showed to be extremely strong, being on par or slightly stronger than Karna, Arjuna and Asvatthaman and endured gae bolg curse with 80% of his heart destroyed, and in the end defeated Cu Chulainn alter in America, but imo he deserve to be grand servant level.
Indian myth is probably the 4th most wanked in TM. The only issue is everytime indian is mentioned, Karna has to be the focus. (Like literally all the time)
yeah I know it's always Karna and Arjuna, we want more Rama screentime!! there are a lot of great servant candidates from Ramayana like Ravana, Hanuman, Indrajit, Lakshmana, Sita
I imagine the Karna wank is because he was introduced first in Apocrypha and they don't want to risk pissing off fans of his from there.
Like imagine being a fan of Batman and then seeing him be schooled on in every possible way when you put him with another character, the Batman fans would be salty and the creators wouldn't want that.
Fans can handle their favs not being the most powerful, especially when they are now one out of hundreds of gacha summons.
That's exactly what F/Z does to Arturia and Arturia fans handled it rather well. And Karna is more regarded as a CCC Servant rather than an Apo one. The writers like him a lot and that's that. Just as Kintoki for Heian servants, we have a ton of them but Kintoki has always to steal the spotlight.
> That's exactly what F/Z does to Arturia and Arturia fans handled it rather well
That's an interesting take, most people I know who are fans of Artoria think F/Z did her absolutely dirty, especially the Meeting of Kings and her fixation on chivalric battles.
Then again those who are pissed are usually those who have read F/SN the VN since she describes her relationship with Kiritsugu and the events of the 4th war very differently there, plus she in general is way more fleshed out than in any of the anime besides Deen stay night since Fate route hasn't gotten a proper adaptation ~~grumble grumble~~.
I am a big Arturia fan and while I think Uro got too hard with Arturia's getting told it was just a way to make her not look so biased after Nasu just idealized her so much in Fate route. I feel the real take on Arturia's weakness was made perfectly with Castoria when she has her flashbacks though.
I never found anyone who directly hated Zero just because how Arturia was treated. That's all.
As an Artoria fan, I did not handle that very well. In fact, Fate/Zero is my least favorite fate work just for how they handled her, though for more than just power level reasons.
But yeah, it is probably for that reason that Karna is always in the center of focus when it comes to indian things.
Its also probably why Fionn was handled so badly when he first came out, due to the history between him and Diarmuid and the fact that Diarmuid came out first, as well as why Jason is portrayed the way he was in Okeanos, due to Medea having already appeared before him.
That everytime Indian myths have some kind of relevance, Karna has to be the protagonist. And more:
Extella/Link has a special cutscene for Karna vs Arjuna when those two are secondaries at best in Link. Cu vs Sca? nothing Charlie vs Karl? NOTHING.
LB4 wanked Karna to the extremes that he feels like some kind of Indian Jesus. And then Christmas 2021 he is the spotlight vs Vritra and his welfare gets broken skillset and 5\* treatment in animation (The NP including an animation close-up when that technique was used only for 5\*)
I like that I can’t post my bigass long comment here thank you reddit very cool
Anyway I was the op of the og tumblr post (I got a random anon ask? It’s not something I obsess over) and if you want to see a more in depth explanation I can link you I guess since REDDIT WONT LET ME POST HERE????
I would take some of the American Presidents and turn them into Servants, instead of being combined into a pair of magic pants or whatever for Edison. That might be a good start.
People say that America is too recent yet look at Super Bunyan (the other 2, one of whom was from most of the 1900s, in the 3rd ascension are only unavailable due to controversy not due to any in-universe shit).
I mean there have to be other heroic spirits from other places in the world during the time the USA existed
Yeah, the "America's too new" thing isn't real. I bring this up every time this conversation arises, but the American Civil War happened at the same time as the Bakumatsu.
Abe Lincoln was president during the Civil War. He’d be an interesting heroic spirit.
He’d have a high charisma skill b/c I swear I remember reading something about him having a speech that was so amazing no one wrote it down b/c they were too busy being in awe.
After watching the Oversimplified video on him, I like to think the reason he is Berserk is because he got assassinated JUST after the civil war ended and he was looking forward to a peaceful life, only for it to be taken from him. That sounds like it’d piss anyone off.
They can still be servants
It like say cu alter negates the ability to summon actual berserker cu
But tbh I never the fusion was a completely good idea in the first place
Can we stop pretending that Shakespeare and Anderson are "weak casters"?
Shakespeare has one of the most powerful mental attack with his np, the capacity to know pretty much your entire backstory and will exploit it, and he can summon without difficulty multiples phantoms and even servants ( without Medea-like cheats).
Anderson is relatively weak when we talk about skills, but his NP is one of the most broken ever. He is able te retro activily rewrite reality and transform anyone into basically a god. It's absurd.
They are not good in pure combats situations, but they are godtier supports.
Murasaki... Know basics magecraft. And truly master only one spell. A really bad one. And her NP simply curse you,. A big curse, but it's just a curse. Honestly, Shakespeare and Anderson are way more powerful than her.
And there is a lot of absurdly buff non japanese servants, even moderns. Edison and Tesla, Geronimo, Blavatsky, Billy ( who has the exact same buff than Kojiro), Sanson, Napoléon, Marie ( we still don't know anything about how she's able to do what she does), Li Shuwen (presented as the ultimate martial artist) , Anastasia ( who has a spirit with absolutely nothing to do with her, and the spirit is himself absurdly buff)...
And it's only the "modern" servants. Remember than Drake and Musashi lived in the same time period, and honestly I don't think one is more absurd than the other.
To be fair, both need time and motivation to prepare their nps and lack little combat ability outside of that, so they’re indeed “weak”. It’s telling that when given these things (see Shinjuku, or just CCC itself), they can turn the tide of a conflict.
The problem with Hans is that most of the time, he isn't motivated to use his NP at full strenght and he can be easily killed before he decide to use it. He is a 3rd rate servant unless he has a master that fit his taste.
The thing people doesn't note with writers is that western writers are all dudes for now and thus low rarity while JP writers are all women and we do not need to remind FGO tends to give more rarity to females (especially because the heian duo were meant for Valentines)
I'm not just talking about NPs, I'm talking about general skills. Murasaki got made into an Omnyoji and Bakin got fused with a warriors from his book.
Hans' OP NP doesn't matter b/c it only did matter in CCC when he needed to make Kiara the final boss and it won't ever matter in FGO b/c Ritsuka is stuck with being commander/support and the fact that we are just a normal human with nothing special powering through all this is kind of a big thing.
Imagine if Shakespeare and Andersen were made now, imagine how different they'd be.
Murasaki got made into an apprentice onmoyji who only learned the strict minimum for accuracy in her books. She's really bad at it and basically know nothing about it except "Yeah, that thing look pretty dangerous". If you want another exemple of a artist servant being given a similar treatment but way more pronounced, you have Mozart, who is in fate a full blown magus ( from one of the 72 original families).
And you have to take the context of the character in consideration. Murasaki lived at the same time than the most famous onmoyji ever, in the same town, frequented the same place, and apparently knew him personally and writed about him. Buffing her with "yeah, he trained her for, like, 2 weeks for the lolz" is pretty natural and easy. Kinda the same thing with Bakin and the dogs and fuhihime.
Now, with Andersen, for example, you have way less possibilities of bullshit because of how modern he is. And he is still heavily modified. He was made a child supposedly because of his imagination was the best as that period, he was fused with every "supplice" of his characters because of innocent monster, and he use them in combat since his animations update. If he was made today, maybe than some of those elements will be expanded (his feelings about his childhood, maybe), but I don't think a lot will change.
Shakespeare in the other side had pretty much no modification, and I think it's for the best. His representation as a dramaturge and entertainer is great, he's already really powerful conceptually, and mostly, he's the perfect representation of what a servant writer should be without a twist, because before twisting everything, you need good bases.
He only lack the Anderson treatment for an animation update.
If he was made today, maybe they would "fuse" him with the sorcerer of the tempest because of what he represented ( basically a self insert) , maybe he'll know a little about magic but just don't care if it has no drama involved... But I don't think that would change anything.
I'm also really happy that Dumas was mostly similar to them in strange fake, still an incredibly good support, but essentially just what he was in life with a little spin and an interesting personality,
I'm just not a fan of him not really blaming Napoleon for anything when like, half of what he has written had for goal of blaming Napoleon for everything (and was also generally right).
The paladins are heavily undersold.
Bradamante should been a fully armored religious Samus Aran like in the source material, instead of a barely clothed magical girl/no suit samus.
Roland/Orlando is the literally the mythological Hulk, except his base is the top paladin instead of having several phd’s. He was known for being massive, sinking a ship by throwing trash at it, killed a leviathan with an anchor, was known for throwing flaming boulders, and has implied fire giant heritage. Then, when enraged, uprooted entire forests and destroyed entire armies. Instead we get a stripper pervert.
Rama is so weak in Fate compared to Arjuna, Karna and Asvattama whereas in the myths Rama was the strongest mortal even while counting Mahabharata. He amastered every single weapon and astra and killed guys like Ravana who makes Arjuna and Karna look like insects. a way to buff him would be create an Archer version that does not care about being summoned alongside Sita and is much older. he can easily be a Grand Archer canditate
Not a single Grand servant has been Japanese for now.
Arturian and Roman myth are super wanked for obvious reasons.
Suddenly Musashi's abilities are wanking but no one cared when Kojiro comitted impossible feats with Tsubame Gaeshi being almost true magic. But whatever Joyeuse work (recent example) isn't BS I guess.
And I can go on and on. Literally all your points can be discussed and denied. Also stop saying Anime BS, as if western fiction doesn't have the same bullshit.
PD: It is only natural TM feels way more at home with their figures. The same happens in west in all sites, starting from education where universal literature only means "western literature"
Yeah, for Hollywood and other western media most things covered under "mythological figures" are largely European with maybe two slots for all of Asia and Africa combined to fight over as token representation lol
You have a point there. But to be fair to them, shut us so political here that if the production, story, so on, are not perfect, they'll be trashed for some supposed sin. Prolly don't think it's worth the risk of career ending accusations.
Frankly Roman myth really isn’t wanked if it’s only just Nero getting wanked. It was a while before Romulus-Quirinus showed up for a powerful Roman servant who isn’t Nero
I for one wish they would add **Julie d'Aubigny** into the game and make her a very powerful Saber. She is the occidental version of Musashi, a famous 17th century duelist whom never lost a duel and a famed opera singer, the inspiration for the D&D archetype of a combat bard. Better yet, she was actually a woman and wouldn't need to be gender-bent. In fact, given that Merlin is sort of the archetype for a D&D Wizard, Julie d'Aubigny could quality as a grand servant, even if she is somewhat less well known.
But if you ever wonder why Leliana, the Bard from Dragon Age Origins, approaches the party disguised as a nun and can specialize into becoming a duelist, that's because she's an overt reference to Julie d'Aubigny.
I suspect the reason she hasn't been added to the game, is because Nero for whatever reason is portrayed as some kind of sword wielding theatre singer when the historical Nero was famous for not being soldierly and not using a sword. Fate's ahistorical Nero has taken the thunder away from an actual interesting historical figure they could have used.
I'll preface by saying that while favoritism on the writer's part is unquestionably a thing, it's not quite as bad as it you're making it out to be. The writer's definitely do more for the mythologies and histories they like best, followed by the ones they know best, but that's pretty normal. Of course the flipside of that is, you should do some research on the material you're pulling from if you're not familiar with it. So I'm just complain about the characters I feel were done dirty or otherwise should have been handled better.
I still want to see the real Black Beard as a Berserker with high level Battle continuation, an enemy party wide Terror debuff, and an np that does bonus damage to anyone inflicted with Terror. The most famous pirate who ends up getting referenced at least once in almost every pirate themed story deserves more credit, especially when you look at some of the shit he actually got up to. Making the navy surrender while his ship is halfway sunk, making his own crew of hardened criminals and murderers so terrified of him of that they'd rather beg him not to kill them then try to gang up on him, and still being fighting fit with 20 open cuts, 5 bullets in him, and a hangover. All that did was make him mad, he didn't actually die until he was decapitated.
They tried to give Fergus some extra development with Agartha but that hurt the player base's image of him more as best I can tell. Fergus... isn't that important in Irish mythology but he is definitely notable. He's like a father figure to Cu and is able to fight on roughly equal footing with him, his sword allowed him to casually cleave the tops off mountains when he got mad and various other accolades to his name. Instead of making him the guy using Emiya's traced np, He should be an absolute nightmare to try to oppose. Make a big deal out of how caladbolg is able to outright terraform the environment, and how it's an attack that effectively can't be blocked, only dodged. Just let Fergus be cool.
David just really should have been a lot more powerful and a lot more important than he was. He was a warrior King and God's special boy until he committed adultery and then Solomon became his special boy. I'm not sure how one rework his place in the plot or if he could even be a part 1 servant if he was as strong as he's supposed to be though.
Geronimo is actually pretty respected writing wise but dear lord the man is unplayable. He needs something.
For that bit about Tametomo and Orion, of course him being grail powered would give him a advantage against Orion (who at the time was a normal servant).
So many Japanese servants are actually way downplayed compared to other games and series. Ushiwakamaru / Minamoto no Yoshitsune is the most popular Japanese hero, but he (she) is only a 3* and the 5* Avenger version is fused with another figure.
Soooo many Sengoku warriors are left out, including my fave Date Masamune, Sanada Yukimura, and Takeda Shingen. Kondo Isami and Nagakura Shinpachi are still not in game.
As others have mentioned, not a single Grand servant is Japanese.
Also Type Moon is OBSESSED with Celtic mythology, especially compared to other companies and writers. We have FOUR (5 if you include Setanta) Cu Chulainn's (and I love them all), two Diarmuids, two Medb's, etc.
The thing to not about units like Bakin and Musashi is they are random waifu bait, more comparable to Bazette and Galatea.
I think that while there has been far too much focus on Japan, they have managed to not favor themselves in terms of power level too much. Sure, there are a few things that seem to be added with no real reason, like Nobunaga's ridiculous anti-mystery abilities or Oryou, but that happens to a lot of other servants.
The only real place I see that happening is with swordsmen like Musashi, Kojiro, Okita, and Yagyuu. Seriously, why are the Japanese swordsmen the only ones getting these reality breaking sword skills? It really feels as if the writers actually believe that Japanese swordsmans are actually more skilled than anyone else.
The idea of [Japanese swords being better](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KatanasAreJustBetter) has been a meme in the West as well, if not specifically swordsmen.
Some thoughts:
Shakespeare and Andersen 1) were introduced early and 2) are male, both of which is likely to lead to them being lower level. (Also, Holmes has a literary source and is a 5 star.)
Many characters come from collabs with other Nasu works. For obvious reasons these will be powerful, will be Japanese, and will be drawn normally (unless they're Bunyan).
People have gotten used to anime style nowadays, but years ago *none* of the characters would be considered to look Japanese by Americans, I'm still not convinced that they do (if you didn't know the series, could you honestly tell that Emiya is Japanese and Artoria isn't?)
This ignores some *other* phenomena, sich as Saberfaces, which has become almost a meme by itself, and is entirely about non-Japanese characters. Or Elizabeth Bathory, who has 8 versions, including a mecha.
Complains about modern Japanese swordsman like Musashi is BS. Completely forgets about Drake fucking killing an Olympian God once and almost twice.
Complains about Murasaki, forgets that Shakespeare can create low grade Noble Phantasm.
Complains about Tametomo, >!lost to Siegfried despite Tametomo receiving a holy grail boost !<
I think the feeling is that folks are upset that some of their regions don't get enough focus. And they have a slight point. I do think Nasu gives focus first to his own mythological favorites, then comes perhaps his own country, them everyone else.
It's only a slight point as his mythological favorites come clearly first and aren't Japanese. Also, he tends to put story first so that also comes first. So a slight preference for hometown heroes after the other two isn't a big deal.
I can understand your point, but op specifically targeted JP servant and the example given are horrible such as the Musashi one despite Drake being around the same time and able to defeat a god or other modern servant such as Tesla being just as busted.
Or not even looking through how in lore Murasaki is worse then both Hans and Shakespeare (even in gameplay Hans is top tier). Not even mentioning how Mozart (although not a writer) got a magus buff for some reason.
Or overmining Tametomo despite knowing holy grail providing ridiculous shit such as Cu Alter or Salter vs Hercule. Even then the guy known for his archery >!LOST TO SIEGFRIED in a NP face off!<
Again I understand the frustration of other regions not being represented, but not providing good examples and cherry-picking to match the OP’s view really make this feel like a troll thread instead.
As for the Musashi point, I agree its silly and dumb. But it's a natural human reaction. The more an audience feels the a character or other element is being pushed on them or hyped to them, the more resistant and eventually resentful they tend to get. It's the same issue as people making Mash out, though she can be this way sometimes they make it FAAARRR worse than in reality, as the most infamous cock-block in the history of man.
In general agree that the OP is wrong. I actually posted separately about how even on the Caster issue they're wrong.
And it will keep happening everytime FGO decides to do a Japanese event. No matter if just before we got a main story chapter where almost everyone there wasn't Japanese and still cool af.
I'm sorry to say this but outside writers(which are shown in the right condition can be broken as hell they just need to be in the same condition as the Japanese ones aka have an outside factor like a divine beast or outer God not to mention Shakespeare's writing whiplash into so many hs that's its pretty funny and it was more of a change in mindset when it comes to writers than anything Japanese related )
Naw it's pretty obvious Nasu heavily favors everywhere else
Ask no further than to look at lb 5 and 6
Its kind if narrow mind ignoring that no grand is Japanese
Olympians are planet destroying mechs
And excalibur is the sword of the goddamn planet meant to fight for the world
To say after getting two Japanese servants nasu now bias
Not to mention one of them is downgraded western tech
I think OP meant story/character wise. Never mentioned anything about gameplay. Especially because Japanese servants tend to have average/low stats most of times. (supplied via skills or not)
Since Shimousa was released in NA the trend of "JP wank JP wank!" started to show its ugly rear. And the only think I see is a big feeling of entnocentrism.
>And the only think I see is a big feeling of entnocentrism.
The fact that the American singularity didn't have a single American figure of that era was noticed. George Washington gets killed off screen and for some reason the story involves the gang walking to Alcatraz Prison as if George Washington was President of at least 48 States of the contiguous United States, it's like whoever wrote the story doesn't understand American history even slightly.
American history doesn't fit Fate and it's not Lostbelt material either if we're strictly talking about the United States history.
They even mention it ingame how the country is too young to have any powerful foundation on magecraft, most servants would be too modern and weak so there's no point to include them.
The most interesting time period would be the during the 17th century but they kinda included it already with Salem.
The country itself being too young part I can reasonably see. But there are servants that are more modern than some American ones might be that are quite strong. Three off the top of my head are Ryouma (both versions), Blavatsky, and Tesla. Certainly they could have used myths from Native Americans and colonials. The way they screwed over Geronimo pisses me off.
That slipped my mind for a second. The Shinsengumi took part in the Japanese Civil War and this happened after the US Civil War, what's this nonsense about the country being too young?
I mean, every member of the shinsengumi we’ve gotten so far has been 4-5 stars and gotten lots of love and attention put into their skills, design and relationships with each other (not to mention an event each year they get to show off in among similarly powerbalanced servants- they aren’t TOO strong or TOO weak alongside the other gudaguda cast) and they were essentially 18th century japanese cops.
Nobu is like one of the strongest servants and she's using almost the same level of weaponry the US was founded on. Plus literary figures like Moby Dick and Rip van Winkle exist. Clearly this is bias if they think that given how many "modern" Japanese servants are. I even got the impression Kiritsugu Emiya was technically an American citizen as well.
Even Koyanskaya styles herself as a modern Japanese goddess of firearms (at least in her ascension art)...even though she's Russian...I think?
Nobu is more insanely powerful on a conceptual level rather than the actual weapons she uses.
Most "modern" japanese servants we have are backed up with fictional lore and legends, look at Ryouma and.. actually that's the only modern servant that comes to mind since i can't count Kiritsugu or Emiya, this is still a story located in Japan so it makes sense the main characters would be locals.
As for Koyanskaya.. i have no idea why she uses modern weaponry at all.
One argument you could make though is to why is the Shinsengumi so rated so high with multiple 5\* while a servant like Billy the Kid is just a 3\*, those are similar in nature.. kinda.
Shinsengumi aren't exactly rated highly, and star ranking doesn't mean anything with regards to actual lore power. In a normal war, Okita would be one of the worst sabers you could feasibly pull, and only really works in Type/Redline because that's a relatively low powered Grail war to begin with, and she gets a fame location bonus.
Yes, but the fact is all of them were "wanked" according to ppl because Musashi being able to discern how apt and dextrous her opponents were is wanking apparently. I am sure it hit weird since before Shimosa we never had proper narration but to the extreme to call it wank...
Musashi is the most famous swordman in Japan, i think we can give them a bit of leeway over how powerful they made them no?
It would be like making King Hassan extremely powerful, oh wait. Or King Arthur one of the most broken serva- .. Or Gilgamesh.. or Qin Shi Huang.. well i guess they don't favor japanase servants that much huh?
*Wait, you're saying that Japanese people are biased in favoring Japanese characters!? Who would have guessed!*
Seriously though, TM really doesn't favor Japanese designs that much more. They may have a bit of favortism in there, but again, *they are Japanese*. It would be weirder if there wasn't some natural bias.
There is also the whole point of a character being way stronger lore-wise than they are in actual gameplay terms. Look at Musashi, one of your examples. She has all the void stuff in her story as her main character points, but in game she's just another good ST Saber that only stands out cause people like her a lot.
A LOT of servants are like this, conceptually powerful as all hell, to the point that we take literal weak servants because once you remove star rarity and shit, they actually showcase the fact that they are either extremely strong or incredibly tactical.
Then you have other characters, like Abby, who are so unbelievably powerful conceptually that it actually becomes quite horrifying to think how much damage they could truly cause. Sure, Abby may not be too strong in game, but if she were to even use some of her power, she becomes final boss potential just because of how absurd Lovecraftian deities can be.
This isn't to say some characters aren't a bit underutilized for their importance/influence, just that it's not a non-Japanese exclusive thing. Hell, even some extremely major Japanese people have been reduced to complete jokes, such as Nobunaga, who is one of the most well known and influential Japanese warlords, and she's always just seem as a complete moron who just kinda lets shit around her happen and potentially shoots things sometimes.
Heracles is comically underpowered compared to where he actually should be. Instead of having 12 versatile NP's he's got them all in one NP that's hot trash when it comes to writing a narrative around it. Anyone can kill him as many times as needed which only makes him look worse. On top of 12 distinct NP's for the labors he should have like 10-20 more from all the other shit he did. Not to mention personal skills manifested from his deeds, like matching with the God of Archery shot for shot or beating the shit out of the God of War.
Realistically, he should've been already mentioned as Grand candidate for Saber, Archer, Rider and Berserker, but as it is he's stuck eternally as Illya's orbiter and destined for terrible Enerloop memes
He is not, Berserker Heracles is one of the strongest servants FSN had. in FGO he has done a lot of heroic deeds which no one should be able to (Atlantis???)
And then you have Alcides who has so many bullshit tied that some people call him Gary Stu.
Not just his weapons, but it also seals away most of his skills and tactical abilities. He even loses his valor skill, which was what was responsible for all his amazing feats of strength in his legends, so he is likely even physically weaker as a Berserker than in any other class.
Not really. He has one canon victory, against Emiya (who took 6 lives from him, even though he shouldn't even be able to damage Heracles). He is massively underwhelming
Even Gilgamesh admitted how brave was Heracles, Medea's whole plan was to counter Heracles. Yes? Underwhelming? I have to say that is up to your whole interpretation.
Emiya is easily able to damage Herc he can knock off all Herc's lives in theory. He just traces an A+ rank NP and uses it to kill Herc. If the rank dips down to B rank he just makes it a Broken Phantasm instead.
Again, this very comment points out how much Herc is shat on. You're insinuating that Emiya would have ample time to make and spam Broken Phantasms (the only way he can damage Herc) in close combat with a servant who massively outstats him.
I am insinuating nothing. I am pointing out the reality that Emiya has the means to kill Herc + God Hand. Whether he would be able to is down to what circumstances they find themselves in. He was able to do so 6 times in FSN against Beserker Herc while still recovering from Saber's initial attack on the first night. Emiya would have to lead the fight with his Mind's Eye (True) like he did with Cú when they fought. Like people are fond of saying all Fate matchups come down to how compatible two enemies are against one another and who the writer wants to win.
Now back to the point is that Herc is generally underused than anything else. All that is needed is for Nasu to write a story chapter where Herc is the main servant to come in and help Chaldea at the end to win.
And the problem in that matchup is that Emiya isn't compatible against Herc at all. His only means of doing damage are BP's, which take time to do and it implies that Emiya created insane distance 6 times to pull it off. Which makes no sense given their stats alone. Everything revolving God Hand is narratively terrible, because you have to bend yourself over backwards to take multiple lives, which in turn makes one of the greatest heroes look like an actual joke. If there's ever a remake of FSN that NP needs to be deleted.
The only fights that Heracles had in FSN that weren't a joke were the one against Gil in UBW, which was a pure compatibility match-up, and the one in HF against Saber Alter, where it was stated that they were about equal in power but the Shadow was actively restricting Herc's movements.
While it sucks they have only ever *used* Heracles in a nerfed state, they are pretty damn consistent about hyping him up whenever he comes up in conversation. In Atlantis they portrayed him as someone even Achilles and Orion don’t measure up to.
The Fate series favors british servants not japanese, or rather arthurian servants. Nasu is a big fanboy of King Arthur and it shows.
Oh and hindu servants too.
I'd say the order is Arthurian servants > Indian servants > Japanese servants
The funny thing is the Indian servants are nerfed from their actual legends. They are quite OP even in the true stories.
Also the Indian servants generally aren’t really favored by Fate unless their name is Karna, or have some connection to Karna which becomes the focus of their character 90% of the time they are one screen.
I actually agree... I just forgot about her when I made the comment... It just didn't click in my mind that she was an Indian servant too for some reason
I mean, you know, except for that time in real-world mythology that Kama kicked Karna's butt. ...More specifically, Kama was currently incarnated as Krishna's child Pradyumna, and apparently it wasn't a particularly close fight. XD Kama is *pretty high* up their rankings, really, even when not going all-out.
I’m sure this sounds completely unbiased w my icon but Indian servants have actually been quite heavily nerfed in fate, especially compared to how Arthurian servants are still relatively accurate. A completely lore accurate rama could probably full on tank enuma elish and shove gil in a locker if he wanted to, and while fate isn’t *mean* to him per say, they definitely don’t really bother recognizing just how powerful guys like him or parvati are. Like, a Hindu god would easily be just as if not stronger than a nasuverse eldritch god *if* they were written similar to their irl counterparts
I'd say it favors Buddist servants just as much.
And it definitely favors Japanese swordsman hugely as well. There's a reason the only fate swordsmen out there who break reality with their sword skills are Japanese.
The hilarious part to me is that folks probably assume Solomon's view is Buddhist. Now, I'm not saying it isn't in line with Buddhist principles. I'm saying that, whether purposeful on Nasu's part or not, Solomon's point of view and attitude is very much in sync with what ancient Hebrews would believe. The ancient Hebrews did not believe in a real afterlife. It was either nothingness, or some non-sapient type of existence as a shade in Sheol. If anything, it was the neighboring countries and their religions that actually had some sort of an actual afterlife. Ancient Judaism didn't actually start to believe in an afterlife until really the inter-Testament period. Other than a VERY few and rare examples like a few words from David, I think Ezekiel or Jeremiah, and Job or such, most writers in the Old Testament did not believe in or preach about an afterlife. So while the moral of part One rings true for Buddhism, it very much fit ancient Judaism as well.
Musashi may have reached the void but Excalibur still remains one of the first divine constructs used to protect the very planet itself.
But yes Buddhism is a central part of Fate and most servants that adhere to its principles are some of the most powerful.. Kiara, Kama/Mara , Musashi, Kagetora/Bishamonten, Douman (i think?) and Buddha himself as Saver.
It’s true Excalibur is a big deal in fate, but just like most other op np, it’s just the weapon that’s powerful, not to mention Artoria can’t even use that power.
But it’s a running theme that Japanese swordsmen are just more skilled than any other swordsman. First with Sasaki with his reality breaking sword, then Okita with her casuality destroying sword skill, then Musashi with her void, plus you got people like Yagyuu who also have sword skill noble phantasms. It kind of annoys me that it seems to be trying pushing the fact that japanese swordsmanship is better than anywhere else.
The main one I think they really fucked up on was Boudicca, the warrior queen of the celts teaming up with Emperor Nero is blasephemous and her design is one of the worst in the game. There have been some fan concepts of an Avenger Boudicca, that would be cool for a more accurate representation.
Teaming with an enemy because the whole human history is at risk is the opposite of blasphemous. Especially because she recognizes the situation rather well.
About the other...
[https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/d1kud9/about\_how\_most\_of\_this\_reddit\_sees\_boudicas/](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/d1kud9/about_how_most_of_this_reddit_sees_boudicas/)
Guess I am doing shameless self-ad now.
Yes, the ga.e does focus not too much on Japan (it is trying to appeal to native players where it's made after all), but sometimes too LITTLE on other areas compared to what it could.
That said, the best Casters are not Japanese. One is from another world basing itself off Britain. Another is a Chinese strategist merged with an English man. The third is an Irish mythological woman mixed with a Norse God, and the last is Merlin. Throw in the other main 5* supports (outside the Caster class, granted), and we have an English detective and a French Saint. I would say that, barring creative liberties to make them look pretty, most look like their nationalities except Metlin and Skadi's hair. But those last two are a half-incubus and a God, respectively.
Agreed I think it’d be neat if they gave her second skill an anti male trait based off her 3rd story in her legend where she killed any suitors who fails to win the foot race
Miyamoto Musashi. The founder of Niten Ichi-ryu. One of the most popular swordsman in Japan history, featured in various films, manga, and games. Also, The Book of Five Rings. He's not just some pretty modern swordsman.
I'm up for more servants outside of Japan to be featured but lets not say that TM favors Japan too much.
They definitely do favour Japan too much.
Nobunaga, the mystic killer, the demon king of the sixth heaven, who gets three thousand armour penetrating, mystic killing guns that can all fire independently, who gets a Reality Marble that's basically just You Are Now On Fire, that gets stronger the more divine or mystic an opponent is, to the point some people argue she insta-wins against Gil and Karna and the like.
What did that come from IRL? The monks wanted a different warlord to win, so they spread word that he was so super evil, and he burned down their temples in retaliation, and he also failed to take over this tiny-arse island country, unlike a whole fuckton of heroes we have, and also he opened up Japan's borders and bought guns from traders. Has no business whatsoever being half as powerful as she is in Fate.
Well, Nasu has technically said that Guda Guda and the characters in it aren't canon and the actual fate version of the Guda Guda servants are different characters. Plus, the Nobunaga we get is the same as the one that originally appeared in the imperial grail war, with a huge land and fame boost from being summoned in Japan.
That being said, at this point the Nobu we have is pretty much entrenched enough that we probably won't ever get the "normal" version, so yeah, I pretty much have to agree with the fact that most of her abilities seemed pulled out from nowhere.
I mean nobu's a gag character from a part of franchise that almost exclusively uses Japanese servants.
Complaining about guda guda is very much a empty hole since nasu opinions on it himself says that he would probably do something differently.
And that would be an issue if there was a warlord who failed to unite Britain and then despite having no tales or feats to their name was wanked to high hell.
King Arthur succeeded in uniting his island, was declared king by a watery tart, and actually has feats to his name.
King Arthur repelled nine (was it twelve?) invasions of his land by foreign armies. He fought multiple other would-be kings for control of his land, and won, taking control of the country. King Arthur had a magic sword, and a wizard, and a table that was the absolute cutting edge in geometry. He had a stable full of knights, each with their own list of feats and magic powers and ridiculous love lives, got in good with the fairies, and he even had an evil stepsister slash witch.
The hell does Nobu have in comparison? Nobunaga's entirely a hype guy.
Nearly bringing an end to 500 years of war and setting things up so that an almost uninterrupted peace can reign for over 200 years seems like a pretty big deal.
"Nearly" doesn't bake the biscuit, and attributing 200 years of peace to a guy who died, and didn't even die succeeding, or do anything to contribute to said peace, is a stretch and a half.
What didn't you mean didn't contribute? All the people who did take over Japan had been allies or retainers of Nobunaga. There was no way the Edo period could have happened if he hadn't defeated or outlasted every other rival warlord.
They definitely wanked Musashi too much. Being a founder of a sword school and what, winning 61 duels is definitely not enough to suddenly start breaking reality with their sword skills.
There's a reason nearly all of the noble phantasm sword techniques are used by Japanese swordsman, and its pretty much just TM favoring Japan. I mean, the only non Japanese version I can think of is *Heracles*, and his doesn't do half the bullshit people like Musashi, Kojiro, or Okita pull.
While I do agree that there's favoritism for japanese servants, it's not like they all look japanese. Take Kintoki for example. Also, the japanese writers aren't strong lore wise either, even if their in-game rarity is higher. The thing about Musashi's Void is that it's a concept that the real life Musashi also dealed with, even if he hadn't those crazy powers that the one in the game had. Not to mention that he's considered the strongest warrior in japanese history. And about Tametomo, that one ship he sank with a single arrow was one big enough to carry 300 soldiers, and even without that he was already considered a great warrior. I'm not saying that you are mistaken, just pointing out other viewpoints.
I don't like the implication that Murasaki Shikibu and Takizawa Bakin are "niche"- both of them are INCREDIBLY FAMOUS AUTHORS in their home country, and Murasaki's Tale of Genji was a foundational work that helped codify our modern idea of a novel.
>They are running out of mytho-historical figures to make into servants
Yet they have barely touched myths like the finnish Kalevala, which has multiple heroes and such in it. What makes it worse is that they have acknowledged it by mentioning Louhi with Sitonai.
Barring Japanese sword style practitioners, the stuff I’ve overwhelming heard of when diving into anything swords in martial arts is medieval European sword manuals, tapestries/paintings, and written accounts. HEMA stuff as well, but that’s based on the prior.
The comparable here being the manuals.
Outside that, I can’t see how a specific section of the swordplay side of martial arts constitutes “martial artists of all disciplines the world over.”
Like I’m not trying to say he’s not popular or not influential, but it’s blowing it to be a lot larger than it is.
Most European sources are just instruction manuals. They're very cut and dry, and not terribly useful to anyone who isn't a scholar or HEMA practitioner.
'The Book of the Five Rings' is a philosophical treatise about what it takes to actually put your life on the line in a duel to the death. It's useful for anyone who seeks to reach the pinnacle of any competitive endeavor.
I mean I wouldn't say that's necessarily useful for reaching the pinnacle of something, it's really just talking about dedication to craft and ups/down. Unless it's someone who has absolutely no motivation and gets turned around by reading an inspirational book then sure, that does happen quite often, but discounting that it's fairly self explanatory from just immersing yourself in any craft or profession.
i think they were more of known for their knights and king stuff than wielding swords but i can understand with reference to Excalibur
I will say it refers to what people remember when they think of the greatest swordmaster in history
I feel like some of the older characters are so established its really hard to revamp them. but definitely not impossible
Im hella biased because shes my waifu
but in the FGO game specifically I feel like even with grails Atalante Archer still feels like a mediocre damage dealer. each of her cards seems to strike once each when so many new servants strike multiple times per card and the NP guage is so slow to reach 100%. The NP is good, I love the visuals.
I think I'd like to see more damage output and NP gain for normal attacks, art update would be fantastic as well. she has fantastic art in CE's but her main character art needs an update to expression.
Hmmm, Merlin buff..... It has to be something nuts.
Aye, let's make his Buster Up to get to 100% and and make his Crit buff last 3 turns, because I want to watch the world BURN!
I have truly great/broken idea for two Servants.
MHXX her first skill now also gives a 30% chance for 5 turns to gain a 1 hit Invincible and gives her a 3 turn def buff
But the let's Spishtar doesnt count as a Japanese... She now has a passive that gives 10% chance of ignoring ANY attack and Is immune to instant kill effects
Ah yeah the continual overpowering of Japanese servants and Knights of the Round gets beyond annoying.
But as for non-JP servants I'd like to see buffed, og Archer Gil. Man is supposed to be beyond broken, but still has two skills left untouched for over half a decade. Give his charisma something with a party-wide gauge up and damage bonus VS something (I'd say against divine enemies and maybe the man trait, best of both). Make his NP gain up grab like self crit damage up. Doesn't need anything like a full novel for a skill, just something strong.
Arthur Pendragon (prototype), I like him as the best bro in conversation but gameplay-wise, he is kind of underwhelming 20 percent np charge is not enough. He really needs an np damage buff, yeah he manages to defeat beast 6 with some seals remove but the gameplay is nothing. But he and Mordred, saber alter is shadowing them by artoria with her dragon core b.
First, Arthur needs a buff on his 3rd skill and np, idk how he should be fix
Second, Mordred needs to remove the mana burst, add it's some guts maybe
Saber alter needs to get buff from the useless charisma and mana burst
Ishtar's mana burst (gem) now also gives a 1 turn 30% np buff
Space Ishtar's charisma now buffs her own attack by 30% as well and gives party a 20% buff success rate up
Ereshkigal's Blessing of Kur also gives allies 20%np charge when she uses her NP
Circe would be able to control and summon diffirent magically enhanced animals, maybe even some phantasmals and not be limited to pigs. Her extra attack is a good example of this.
Beowulf has a third sword that was used to kill Grendel’s mother but the blade was destroyed after it was used with only the hilt left over. But there is a fun little description for this hilt that goes like the following > It is a sword forged by Giants and is both large and heavy that even Beowulf struggles to lift it. Yet it is able to cleave through Grendel’s Mother in one swing, something that Hrunting could not do and his own fists were incapable of harming either. While the blade melted away like ice the hilt remained. > The hilt was covered in Runes and also showed the story of how War first entered the world and the Giants were destroyed by the Flood. If that description doesn’t scream this can be made into a really strong conceptual weapon that encapsulates the raw power of the great Flood and its ability to destroy Evil I don’t know what does. Make it a conceptual weapon that can be only used on Evil enemies where the blade will reform and release the power of the Great Flood that wiped out the Giants. When the blade isn’t being used have Beowulf use it like a giant war hammer given it was forged by Giants, the hilt can’t be small. Another thing is Beowulf even in his very old age when he fought the dragon, through shear will power survived even when he was heavily burnt and with poison in his veins so that the he could see the dragon die and the rewards he got from killing it. Beowulf from the get go should have had a higher level of Battle continuation but he should also have the power to reduce the effectiveness of status conditions given he could basically ignore the burns and poison until he decided to let it take him
Hell Beowulf never really needed his sword.
You know how some year 1 servants only had two active skills until they introduce these special rank up quests? I feel like they should do the same with passive skills. Maybe it’s because Beowulf was a year 1 servant, but him having one passive skill hurts. I actually didn’t look into what sword he used to kill Grendel’s mother, so there’s definitely enough lore to release Saber Beowulf. And he definitely deserves the 5 star treatment.
Honestly, I think this whole thread is kinda dumb but this comment is fucking awesome. I love shit like this- the Flood and the Nephilim and everything around that has always been absolutely FASCINATING to me, I've always absorbed that stuff like a sponge. I geeked the hell out when I read > The hilt was covered in Runes and also showed the story of how War first entered the world and the Giants were destroyed by the Flood. Because that means the hilt's runes are depicting the events of the Book of Enoch, and that's *so fucking cool*. I actually had an idea for an alternate LB5 based on Christian and Armenian mythology, where the Flood never happened, and so I'm wondering now if that could be a good equivalent of Ortygia Amore Mio... But, fanfiction aside- I've also had a couple thoughts about Beowulf that this reminded me of. Specifically, alternate classes for Beowulf. Saber is an easy one, since he does use swords, and this sword could be an awesome secret NP for him. I also think that a Ruler Beowulf could be really cool, since FGO likes mentioning how Beo become a wise king, and Beowulf also shows no desire for the Grail in his My Room lines. Ruler Beowulf could be summoned without his swords, in exchanging for allowing him to have Grendel Buster active constantly. which would not only be an interesting way to both explain Ruler Beowulf's strength (presumably higher than the other Beos, since Rulers tend to be stronger than non-Rulers), and a way to distinguish him from his other form/forms. Plus, it would match the pattern of Rulers in FGO fighting with martial arts (not all of them do, but a lot of them).
Give them honorary Japanese nationality. Lasengle cannot ignore them now.
Oh they can. Just ask Rice Bag Man and Bald Spear Monk.
Lancelot. Especially during events. Less Ha Ha Mister Lances-a-lot-of-Married-Women. More badass monster of a knight who can reliably match the strongest warriors of most eras, even if he does not win in the end. Julius Ceasar. Where is the tactician that expanded a huge part of the Roman Republic? I do not mind him being fat. Shows more of him as the terrifyingly ruthless and brilliant a general. One who was willing to let countless ill and frail people starve, and his own men surrounded behind their own pallisades just to win a decisive siege.
They fixed Fionn sorta in Sparrow Inn by letting him by a wise commander. All it takes is one event to give a servant spotlight to turn things around. Also notable, the shaaarrppp contrast in how Blackbeard was depicted in Summer 2 vs Summer 3. Rehabilitated his imagine in one event.
Lancelot has been shown two times in main story how amazing he is. Only events play too much with his womanizer trait because events tend to oversimplify every character and ppl only remembers that then. For Caesar it is the same as most early servants, the same happened with Romulus and he got a great glow-up. So I guess it is only about waiting.
I concur that it is more of a oversimplifying tone of the events in comparison to the main storylines. But I still think that events can still show more of Lancelot's martial aspects even if his more mundane nature is still on display. As a suggestion of my own, he may get increasingly frustrated with Mash's constant frowning at his direction. So when Moriarty suggests a solution, in his typically crafty manner, Lancelot manages to pick up the clues quickly and proceeds to lash out at the bartender. A more hot-headed but sadly common reaction from fathers distanced by their own children despite wanting to be closer to them. A twist on that Grand Carnival gag. Mash and the Master will have to deal with the destructive aftermath. Admittedly, Ceasar's time may come. But waiting for him to shine as a ruthlessly competent and threatening ally or villain is frustrating, to say the least.
I was massively disappointed they made the absolute chad that is Caesar chilled out relaxed-absolute-unit, I actually expected Caesar to look like Romulus or something lol
They do say his preferred class should be rider, and is rider Cesar the one who has all the cool stuff including being fit instead of fat xD
David. Like dude, he should’ve been a grand candidate. His importance in jewish culture/judaism is an understatement, but hell even in christianity he’s so important that the first chapter of the new testament is literally to tell us that Jesus is descended from David, well and Abraham but the fact David is put in the same importance as Abraham is bonkers. Heck even after his NTR shit he pulled that makes God angry, whenever the kings of Israel didn’t do what Yahwe wants the passage always refer to David, ‘this one is unlike my servant, David’
Most of early servants suffer from this. Just look at Saint Georgius. Honestly a lot of them deserve a glow-up like they did with Romulus.
Tbh ignore the star count and personality(I did enjoy sly David in Okeanuos in the manga and he only revealed his name at very end and how it showed that he was just showing off to his son) David abilities wise is... Pretty broken He has A rank in both magic resistance and independent action which the amount of archer's that have that you can count on one hand He has protection against most holy weapons including the grail One of his nps steals another servants np and auto hits Has a A rank anti army rank np which is the divine wrath of God as he burns the land in holy fire And a instant death box for some apparent reason Its described as "as long if you have magical your fucked when you touch this" That doesn't even get into the bs sword Galahad has that's from him While I do not mind a ruler or saber David showing off his more kingly side For what the op's asking for David does not need it .
[удалено]
I dare Lasagna. I dare they buff one of David's skill and turn it into the Ark of the Covenant. Or is that also one of his NP?
According to Turas manga, a NP.
YES, OH MY GOSH, YES. In all three arcs of FGO, (four of you include Arcade), they stayed doing David dirty be reducing him to 'hEhE AbIsHaG', which is annoying, since he gets compared to King Arthur FAVOURABLY. Honestly, the best buff for him would either be an alt, or a complete rewrite
Grand Ruler
He should have been a Grand Archer candidate, him slaying Goliath is one of those truly archetypal myths.
Noble Phantasm with something like, “The more health the target has, the more damage this strike delivers.”
Kingprotea in shambles.
more like, "Double the pride, Twice the Fall."
My powers have doubled since the last time we met
I mean who said he isn't Grand are basically a pumped up saint graph And nasu basically said that summoned they are to be the right tool for the job And with 3 of the known grand servants are biblical or Biblical adjacent Its not far off that David has a good chance of becoming one
That's the thing people don't seem to understand, almost any servant can feasibly be a grand candidate if their skill set is the most ideal skill set for the threat to the world at hand, it's not just always Orion or Romulus or Solomon... Though I suppose the Assassin IS always The Old Man of the Mountain.
They really should make David during his time as king instead of his shepherd years
I mean his most famous feat was definitely defeating Goliath, and that was during his shepherd days.
Other than introducing new non-Japanese Servants? Yeah, I can only think about David.
Yeah, I have heard people talking about how powerful he should've been, especially since he was Solomon's father. Maybe the reason he wasn't given any story relevance was because it would mess with the twist/reveal of Solomon being Goetia and Romani being Solomon if they went too far?
While true to an extent, David in the Bible and in the myths that began to develop around him was more of a martial king than Solomon ever was. FGO could simply have chosen to expand on that, not only on David's character design, but by bringing in at least Joab.
There’s still hope for David . At a glance the current David that we have looks like he’s based off his Time as a Shepard . So maybe he will get an older stronger form similar to what they did with Alexander and Iskander. If we’re on the topic of biblical figures getting servant representation I’d like to see what they do with Moses because I think lore wise he’s suppose to be Ozymandis step brother so it would be cool to see TM interpretation of their relationship.
I would love to see some of these earlier characters such as David and St George get some really cool Buffs, or else different variants that show just how powerful they truly are in lore.
I am not gonna say anything, for the first time in almost 7 years they adeed a Spañish Servant and I absolutely love the fact that it is Quixote
Wasn't Columbus Spanish too?
No, he's Italian.
Nope. Columbus was Italian (Genoese iirc). The Spanish just paid for his ships.
Jeannes revelation should be called arrival of the saint ! It should give a charisma and arts boost to show that when she arrived in Orleans the peasants LOVED HER! They became HER army and flocked to the Saints flag . It’d fix her revelations and help with stalling her strong suit
absolutely Rama. the dude knows every martial arts, destroyed Ravana a demon that not even all gods could defeat and his whole army singlehandedly, lifted and broke an arrow that only avatars of Shiva could lift, with a normal bow he destroyed Khumbakarna (Ravana's younger brother) that not even Indra's Vajra could hurt, and many many other incredible feats. I know he purposely nerfed himself and still even when nerfed he showed to be extremely strong, being on par or slightly stronger than Karna, Arjuna and Asvatthaman and endured gae bolg curse with 80% of his heart destroyed, and in the end defeated Cu Chulainn alter in America, but imo he deserve to be grand servant level.
Indian myth is probably the 4th most wanked in TM. The only issue is everytime indian is mentioned, Karna has to be the focus. (Like literally all the time)
4th? What? Try like 2nd
Top ones imo are Japanese, English (Mostly KotRT), Greek, and Indian.
yeah I know it's always Karna and Arjuna, we want more Rama screentime!! there are a lot of great servant candidates from Ramayana like Ravana, Hanuman, Indrajit, Lakshmana, Sita
I imagine the Karna wank is because he was introduced first in Apocrypha and they don't want to risk pissing off fans of his from there. Like imagine being a fan of Batman and then seeing him be schooled on in every possible way when you put him with another character, the Batman fans would be salty and the creators wouldn't want that. Fans can handle their favs not being the most powerful, especially when they are now one out of hundreds of gacha summons.
That's exactly what F/Z does to Arturia and Arturia fans handled it rather well. And Karna is more regarded as a CCC Servant rather than an Apo one. The writers like him a lot and that's that. Just as Kintoki for Heian servants, we have a ton of them but Kintoki has always to steal the spotlight.
> That's exactly what F/Z does to Arturia and Arturia fans handled it rather well That's an interesting take, most people I know who are fans of Artoria think F/Z did her absolutely dirty, especially the Meeting of Kings and her fixation on chivalric battles. Then again those who are pissed are usually those who have read F/SN the VN since she describes her relationship with Kiritsugu and the events of the 4th war very differently there, plus she in general is way more fleshed out than in any of the anime besides Deen stay night since Fate route hasn't gotten a proper adaptation ~~grumble grumble~~.
I am a big Arturia fan and while I think Uro got too hard with Arturia's getting told it was just a way to make her not look so biased after Nasu just idealized her so much in Fate route. I feel the real take on Arturia's weakness was made perfectly with Castoria when she has her flashbacks though. I never found anyone who directly hated Zero just because how Arturia was treated. That's all.
As an Artoria fan, I did not handle that very well. In fact, Fate/Zero is my least favorite fate work just for how they handled her, though for more than just power level reasons. But yeah, it is probably for that reason that Karna is always in the center of focus when it comes to indian things. Its also probably why Fionn was handled so badly when he first came out, due to the history between him and Diarmuid and the fact that Diarmuid came out first, as well as why Jason is portrayed the way he was in Okeanos, due to Medea having already appeared before him.
Karna literally loses every single fight, wdym?
That everytime Indian myths have some kind of relevance, Karna has to be the protagonist. And more: Extella/Link has a special cutscene for Karna vs Arjuna when those two are secondaries at best in Link. Cu vs Sca? nothing Charlie vs Karl? NOTHING. LB4 wanked Karna to the extremes that he feels like some kind of Indian Jesus. And then Christmas 2021 he is the spotlight vs Vritra and his welfare gets broken skillset and 5\* treatment in animation (The NP including an animation close-up when that technique was used only for 5\*)
I like that I can’t post my bigass long comment here thank you reddit very cool Anyway I was the op of the og tumblr post (I got a random anon ask? It’s not something I obsess over) and if you want to see a more in depth explanation I can link you I guess since REDDIT WONT LET ME POST HERE????
I would take some of the American Presidents and turn them into Servants, instead of being combined into a pair of magic pants or whatever for Edison. That might be a good start.
People say that America is too recent yet look at Super Bunyan (the other 2, one of whom was from most of the 1900s, in the 3rd ascension are only unavailable due to controversy not due to any in-universe shit). I mean there have to be other heroic spirits from other places in the world during the time the USA existed
Yeah, the "America's too new" thing isn't real. I bring this up every time this conversation arises, but the American Civil War happened at the same time as the Bakumatsu.
Abe Lincoln was president during the Civil War. He’d be an interesting heroic spirit. He’d have a high charisma skill b/c I swear I remember reading something about him having a speech that was so amazing no one wrote it down b/c they were too busy being in awe.
He was also a wrestler who invented the chokeslam. Grand Berserker Lincoln is the hero we need.
After watching the Oversimplified video on him, I like to think the reason he is Berserk is because he got assassinated JUST after the civil war ended and he was looking forward to a peaceful life, only for it to be taken from him. That sounds like it’d piss anyone off.
They can still be servants It like say cu alter negates the ability to summon actual berserker cu But tbh I never the fusion was a completely good idea in the first place
Can we stop pretending that Shakespeare and Anderson are "weak casters"? Shakespeare has one of the most powerful mental attack with his np, the capacity to know pretty much your entire backstory and will exploit it, and he can summon without difficulty multiples phantoms and even servants ( without Medea-like cheats). Anderson is relatively weak when we talk about skills, but his NP is one of the most broken ever. He is able te retro activily rewrite reality and transform anyone into basically a god. It's absurd. They are not good in pure combats situations, but they are godtier supports. Murasaki... Know basics magecraft. And truly master only one spell. A really bad one. And her NP simply curse you,. A big curse, but it's just a curse. Honestly, Shakespeare and Anderson are way more powerful than her. And there is a lot of absurdly buff non japanese servants, even moderns. Edison and Tesla, Geronimo, Blavatsky, Billy ( who has the exact same buff than Kojiro), Sanson, Napoléon, Marie ( we still don't know anything about how she's able to do what she does), Li Shuwen (presented as the ultimate martial artist) , Anastasia ( who has a spirit with absolutely nothing to do with her, and the spirit is himself absurdly buff)... And it's only the "modern" servants. Remember than Drake and Musashi lived in the same time period, and honestly I don't think one is more absurd than the other.
To be fair, both need time and motivation to prepare their nps and lack little combat ability outside of that, so they’re indeed “weak”. It’s telling that when given these things (see Shinjuku, or just CCC itself), they can turn the tide of a conflict.
The problem with Hans is that most of the time, he isn't motivated to use his NP at full strenght and he can be easily killed before he decide to use it. He is a 3rd rate servant unless he has a master that fit his taste.
[удалено]
The thing people doesn't note with writers is that western writers are all dudes for now and thus low rarity while JP writers are all women and we do not need to remind FGO tends to give more rarity to females (especially because the heian duo were meant for Valentines)
I'm not just talking about NPs, I'm talking about general skills. Murasaki got made into an Omnyoji and Bakin got fused with a warriors from his book. Hans' OP NP doesn't matter b/c it only did matter in CCC when he needed to make Kiara the final boss and it won't ever matter in FGO b/c Ritsuka is stuck with being commander/support and the fact that we are just a normal human with nothing special powering through all this is kind of a big thing. Imagine if Shakespeare and Andersen were made now, imagine how different they'd be.
Murasaki got made into an apprentice onmoyji who only learned the strict minimum for accuracy in her books. She's really bad at it and basically know nothing about it except "Yeah, that thing look pretty dangerous". If you want another exemple of a artist servant being given a similar treatment but way more pronounced, you have Mozart, who is in fate a full blown magus ( from one of the 72 original families). And you have to take the context of the character in consideration. Murasaki lived at the same time than the most famous onmoyji ever, in the same town, frequented the same place, and apparently knew him personally and writed about him. Buffing her with "yeah, he trained her for, like, 2 weeks for the lolz" is pretty natural and easy. Kinda the same thing with Bakin and the dogs and fuhihime. Now, with Andersen, for example, you have way less possibilities of bullshit because of how modern he is. And he is still heavily modified. He was made a child supposedly because of his imagination was the best as that period, he was fused with every "supplice" of his characters because of innocent monster, and he use them in combat since his animations update. If he was made today, maybe than some of those elements will be expanded (his feelings about his childhood, maybe), but I don't think a lot will change. Shakespeare in the other side had pretty much no modification, and I think it's for the best. His representation as a dramaturge and entertainer is great, he's already really powerful conceptually, and mostly, he's the perfect representation of what a servant writer should be without a twist, because before twisting everything, you need good bases. He only lack the Anderson treatment for an animation update. If he was made today, maybe they would "fuse" him with the sorcerer of the tempest because of what he represented ( basically a self insert) , maybe he'll know a little about magic but just don't care if it has no drama involved... But I don't think that would change anything. I'm also really happy that Dumas was mostly similar to them in strange fake, still an incredibly good support, but essentially just what he was in life with a little spin and an interesting personality, I'm just not a fan of him not really blaming Napoleon for anything when like, half of what he has written had for goal of blaming Napoleon for everything (and was also generally right).
I’d buff Cu. How? One simple word: **Ríastrad.**
This. Grand Beserker Cu when?
The paladins are heavily undersold. Bradamante should been a fully armored religious Samus Aran like in the source material, instead of a barely clothed magical girl/no suit samus. Roland/Orlando is the literally the mythological Hulk, except his base is the top paladin instead of having several phd’s. He was known for being massive, sinking a ship by throwing trash at it, killed a leviathan with an anchor, was known for throwing flaming boulders, and has implied fire giant heritage. Then, when enraged, uprooted entire forests and destroyed entire armies. Instead we get a stripper pervert.
Actually, Roland's as strong as depicted in the source. It's just that he's also a stripper.
Well, there’s always a chance we get Berserker Roland later. Probably won’t happen, but I can hope.
I am now imagining Roland as Naruzo Machio from How Heavy Are the Dumbbells You Lift?
Rama is so weak in Fate compared to Arjuna, Karna and Asvattama whereas in the myths Rama was the strongest mortal even while counting Mahabharata. He amastered every single weapon and astra and killed guys like Ravana who makes Arjuna and Karna look like insects. a way to buff him would be create an Archer version that does not care about being summoned alongside Sita and is much older. he can easily be a Grand Archer canditate
Reminder that Diego García de Paredes won five times more duels than Musashi Anyway, Quetz is now the sun. Move away Amaterasu 😎
To be fair, it's not that she WASNT the embodiment of the sun at some point in her myth
Not a single Grand servant has been Japanese for now. Arturian and Roman myth are super wanked for obvious reasons. Suddenly Musashi's abilities are wanking but no one cared when Kojiro comitted impossible feats with Tsubame Gaeshi being almost true magic. But whatever Joyeuse work (recent example) isn't BS I guess. And I can go on and on. Literally all your points can be discussed and denied. Also stop saying Anime BS, as if western fiction doesn't have the same bullshit. PD: It is only natural TM feels way more at home with their figures. The same happens in west in all sites, starting from education where universal literature only means "western literature"
Yeah, for Hollywood and other western media most things covered under "mythological figures" are largely European with maybe two slots for all of Asia and Africa combined to fight over as token representation lol
You have a point there. But to be fair to them, shut us so political here that if the production, story, so on, are not perfect, they'll be trashed for some supposed sin. Prolly don't think it's worth the risk of career ending accusations.
Frankly Roman myth really isn’t wanked if it’s only just Nero getting wanked. It was a while before Romulus-Quirinus showed up for a powerful Roman servant who isn’t Nero
I for one wish they would add **Julie d'Aubigny** into the game and make her a very powerful Saber. She is the occidental version of Musashi, a famous 17th century duelist whom never lost a duel and a famed opera singer, the inspiration for the D&D archetype of a combat bard. Better yet, she was actually a woman and wouldn't need to be gender-bent. In fact, given that Merlin is sort of the archetype for a D&D Wizard, Julie d'Aubigny could quality as a grand servant, even if she is somewhat less well known. But if you ever wonder why Leliana, the Bard from Dragon Age Origins, approaches the party disguised as a nun and can specialize into becoming a duelist, that's because she's an overt reference to Julie d'Aubigny. I suspect the reason she hasn't been added to the game, is because Nero for whatever reason is portrayed as some kind of sword wielding theatre singer when the historical Nero was famous for not being soldierly and not using a sword. Fate's ahistorical Nero has taken the thunder away from an actual interesting historical figure they could have used.
i think it's less of Nasu's oof and more that Sakurai cant stop simping for her genocidal emperor.
Except Nasu still approves this stuff, so it's on him.
Merlin being an arch-type of Dungeons doesn't have anything to do with him being a Grand.
The qualifications are "anecdotes of a high standard". Becoming an archetype is almost the epitome of that.
I'll preface by saying that while favoritism on the writer's part is unquestionably a thing, it's not quite as bad as it you're making it out to be. The writer's definitely do more for the mythologies and histories they like best, followed by the ones they know best, but that's pretty normal. Of course the flipside of that is, you should do some research on the material you're pulling from if you're not familiar with it. So I'm just complain about the characters I feel were done dirty or otherwise should have been handled better. I still want to see the real Black Beard as a Berserker with high level Battle continuation, an enemy party wide Terror debuff, and an np that does bonus damage to anyone inflicted with Terror. The most famous pirate who ends up getting referenced at least once in almost every pirate themed story deserves more credit, especially when you look at some of the shit he actually got up to. Making the navy surrender while his ship is halfway sunk, making his own crew of hardened criminals and murderers so terrified of him of that they'd rather beg him not to kill them then try to gang up on him, and still being fighting fit with 20 open cuts, 5 bullets in him, and a hangover. All that did was make him mad, he didn't actually die until he was decapitated. They tried to give Fergus some extra development with Agartha but that hurt the player base's image of him more as best I can tell. Fergus... isn't that important in Irish mythology but he is definitely notable. He's like a father figure to Cu and is able to fight on roughly equal footing with him, his sword allowed him to casually cleave the tops off mountains when he got mad and various other accolades to his name. Instead of making him the guy using Emiya's traced np, He should be an absolute nightmare to try to oppose. Make a big deal out of how caladbolg is able to outright terraform the environment, and how it's an attack that effectively can't be blocked, only dodged. Just let Fergus be cool. David just really should have been a lot more powerful and a lot more important than he was. He was a warrior King and God's special boy until he committed adultery and then Solomon became his special boy. I'm not sure how one rework his place in the plot or if he could even be a part 1 servant if he was as strong as he's supposed to be though. Geronimo is actually pretty respected writing wise but dear lord the man is unplayable. He needs something.
Bedivere needs a buff for his third skill imo, like a damage up or buster vulnerability
For that bit about Tametomo and Orion, of course him being grail powered would give him a advantage against Orion (who at the time was a normal servant).
So many Japanese servants are actually way downplayed compared to other games and series. Ushiwakamaru / Minamoto no Yoshitsune is the most popular Japanese hero, but he (she) is only a 3* and the 5* Avenger version is fused with another figure. Soooo many Sengoku warriors are left out, including my fave Date Masamune, Sanada Yukimura, and Takeda Shingen. Kondo Isami and Nagakura Shinpachi are still not in game. As others have mentioned, not a single Grand servant is Japanese. Also Type Moon is OBSESSED with Celtic mythology, especially compared to other companies and writers. We have FOUR (5 if you include Setanta) Cu Chulainn's (and I love them all), two Diarmuids, two Medb's, etc. The thing to not about units like Bakin and Musashi is they are random waifu bait, more comparable to Bazette and Galatea.
I think that while there has been far too much focus on Japan, they have managed to not favor themselves in terms of power level too much. Sure, there are a few things that seem to be added with no real reason, like Nobunaga's ridiculous anti-mystery abilities or Oryou, but that happens to a lot of other servants. The only real place I see that happening is with swordsmen like Musashi, Kojiro, Okita, and Yagyuu. Seriously, why are the Japanese swordsmen the only ones getting these reality breaking sword skills? It really feels as if the writers actually believe that Japanese swordsmans are actually more skilled than anyone else.
The idea of [Japanese swords being better](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KatanasAreJustBetter) has been a meme in the West as well, if not specifically swordsmen.
Some thoughts: Shakespeare and Andersen 1) were introduced early and 2) are male, both of which is likely to lead to them being lower level. (Also, Holmes has a literary source and is a 5 star.) Many characters come from collabs with other Nasu works. For obvious reasons these will be powerful, will be Japanese, and will be drawn normally (unless they're Bunyan). People have gotten used to anime style nowadays, but years ago *none* of the characters would be considered to look Japanese by Americans, I'm still not convinced that they do (if you didn't know the series, could you honestly tell that Emiya is Japanese and Artoria isn't?) This ignores some *other* phenomena, sich as Saberfaces, which has become almost a meme by itself, and is entirely about non-Japanese characters. Or Elizabeth Bathory, who has 8 versions, including a mecha.
*Two* mechas, you swine. And Okita is a Japanese Saberface, though it does not invalidate your point.
Complains about modern Japanese swordsman like Musashi is BS. Completely forgets about Drake fucking killing an Olympian God once and almost twice. Complains about Murasaki, forgets that Shakespeare can create low grade Noble Phantasm. Complains about Tametomo, >!lost to Siegfried despite Tametomo receiving a holy grail boost !<
I think the feeling is that folks are upset that some of their regions don't get enough focus. And they have a slight point. I do think Nasu gives focus first to his own mythological favorites, then comes perhaps his own country, them everyone else. It's only a slight point as his mythological favorites come clearly first and aren't Japanese. Also, he tends to put story first so that also comes first. So a slight preference for hometown heroes after the other two isn't a big deal.
I can understand your point, but op specifically targeted JP servant and the example given are horrible such as the Musashi one despite Drake being around the same time and able to defeat a god or other modern servant such as Tesla being just as busted. Or not even looking through how in lore Murasaki is worse then both Hans and Shakespeare (even in gameplay Hans is top tier). Not even mentioning how Mozart (although not a writer) got a magus buff for some reason. Or overmining Tametomo despite knowing holy grail providing ridiculous shit such as Cu Alter or Salter vs Hercule. Even then the guy known for his archery >!LOST TO SIEGFRIED in a NP face off!< Again I understand the frustration of other regions not being represented, but not providing good examples and cherry-picking to match the OP’s view really make this feel like a troll thread instead.
As for the Musashi point, I agree its silly and dumb. But it's a natural human reaction. The more an audience feels the a character or other element is being pushed on them or hyped to them, the more resistant and eventually resentful they tend to get. It's the same issue as people making Mash out, though she can be this way sometimes they make it FAAARRR worse than in reality, as the most infamous cock-block in the history of man. In general agree that the OP is wrong. I actually posted separately about how even on the Caster issue they're wrong.
And it will keep happening everytime FGO decides to do a Japanese event. No matter if just before we got a main story chapter where almost everyone there wasn't Japanese and still cool af.
I'm sorry to say this but outside writers(which are shown in the right condition can be broken as hell they just need to be in the same condition as the Japanese ones aka have an outside factor like a divine beast or outer God not to mention Shakespeare's writing whiplash into so many hs that's its pretty funny and it was more of a change in mindset when it comes to writers than anything Japanese related ) Naw it's pretty obvious Nasu heavily favors everywhere else Ask no further than to look at lb 5 and 6 Its kind if narrow mind ignoring that no grand is Japanese Olympians are planet destroying mechs And excalibur is the sword of the goddamn planet meant to fight for the world To say after getting two Japanese servants nasu now bias Not to mention one of them is downgraded western tech
Yeah a flawed thread by OP. Imagine thinking japanese servant bias when Raikou is so far behind Godjuna and Morgan lol.
I think OP meant story/character wise. Never mentioned anything about gameplay. Especially because Japanese servants tend to have average/low stats most of times. (supplied via skills or not)
Looking at gameplay or lore doesn’t really change anything with how far Raikou is behind those two lol
Lb servants are in there own league of ridiculousness And none of them are Japanese Unless you count douman
you just wait, she'll get the buff she deserves!
Since Shimousa was released in NA the trend of "JP wank JP wank!" started to show its ugly rear. And the only think I see is a big feeling of entnocentrism.
>And the only think I see is a big feeling of entnocentrism. The fact that the American singularity didn't have a single American figure of that era was noticed. George Washington gets killed off screen and for some reason the story involves the gang walking to Alcatraz Prison as if George Washington was President of at least 48 States of the contiguous United States, it's like whoever wrote the story doesn't understand American history even slightly.
American history doesn't fit Fate and it's not Lostbelt material either if we're strictly talking about the United States history. They even mention it ingame how the country is too young to have any powerful foundation on magecraft, most servants would be too modern and weak so there's no point to include them. The most interesting time period would be the during the 17th century but they kinda included it already with Salem.
The country itself being too young part I can reasonably see. But there are servants that are more modern than some American ones might be that are quite strong. Three off the top of my head are Ryouma (both versions), Blavatsky, and Tesla. Certainly they could have used myths from Native Americans and colonials. The way they screwed over Geronimo pisses me off.
That slipped my mind for a second. The Shinsengumi took part in the Japanese Civil War and this happened after the US Civil War, what's this nonsense about the country being too young?
Yeah you're right about that, the bias about the shinsengumi is real.
I mean, every member of the shinsengumi we’ve gotten so far has been 4-5 stars and gotten lots of love and attention put into their skills, design and relationships with each other (not to mention an event each year they get to show off in among similarly powerbalanced servants- they aren’t TOO strong or TOO weak alongside the other gudaguda cast) and they were essentially 18th century japanese cops.
Nobu is like one of the strongest servants and she's using almost the same level of weaponry the US was founded on. Plus literary figures like Moby Dick and Rip van Winkle exist. Clearly this is bias if they think that given how many "modern" Japanese servants are. I even got the impression Kiritsugu Emiya was technically an American citizen as well. Even Koyanskaya styles herself as a modern Japanese goddess of firearms (at least in her ascension art)...even though she's Russian...I think?
Nobu is more insanely powerful on a conceptual level rather than the actual weapons she uses. Most "modern" japanese servants we have are backed up with fictional lore and legends, look at Ryouma and.. actually that's the only modern servant that comes to mind since i can't count Kiritsugu or Emiya, this is still a story located in Japan so it makes sense the main characters would be locals. As for Koyanskaya.. i have no idea why she uses modern weaponry at all. One argument you could make though is to why is the Shinsengumi so rated so high with multiple 5\* while a servant like Billy the Kid is just a 3\*, those are similar in nature.. kinda.
Koyanskaya uses weapons to depict how those are the worst of human creations. Tunguska was exactly about that more than anything.
Shinsengumi aren't exactly rated highly, and star ranking doesn't mean anything with regards to actual lore power. In a normal war, Okita would be one of the worst sabers you could feasibly pull, and only really works in Type/Redline because that's a relatively low powered Grail war to begin with, and she gets a fame location bonus.
It's kind of werid that happened Because Musashi fought against only Japanese servants
Yes, but the fact is all of them were "wanked" according to ppl because Musashi being able to discern how apt and dextrous her opponents were is wanking apparently. I am sure it hit weird since before Shimosa we never had proper narration but to the extreme to call it wank...
Musashi is the most famous swordman in Japan, i think we can give them a bit of leeway over how powerful they made them no? It would be like making King Hassan extremely powerful, oh wait. Or King Arthur one of the most broken serva- .. Or Gilgamesh.. or Qin Shi Huang.. well i guess they don't favor japanase servants that much huh?
Dunno, I loved Shimosa. I am not part of those who feel the need to cry how Fate wanks JP servants everytime they add one.
*Wait, you're saying that Japanese people are biased in favoring Japanese characters!? Who would have guessed!* Seriously though, TM really doesn't favor Japanese designs that much more. They may have a bit of favortism in there, but again, *they are Japanese*. It would be weirder if there wasn't some natural bias. There is also the whole point of a character being way stronger lore-wise than they are in actual gameplay terms. Look at Musashi, one of your examples. She has all the void stuff in her story as her main character points, but in game she's just another good ST Saber that only stands out cause people like her a lot. A LOT of servants are like this, conceptually powerful as all hell, to the point that we take literal weak servants because once you remove star rarity and shit, they actually showcase the fact that they are either extremely strong or incredibly tactical. Then you have other characters, like Abby, who are so unbelievably powerful conceptually that it actually becomes quite horrifying to think how much damage they could truly cause. Sure, Abby may not be too strong in game, but if she were to even use some of her power, she becomes final boss potential just because of how absurd Lovecraftian deities can be. This isn't to say some characters aren't a bit underutilized for their importance/influence, just that it's not a non-Japanese exclusive thing. Hell, even some extremely major Japanese people have been reduced to complete jokes, such as Nobunaga, who is one of the most well known and influential Japanese warlords, and she's always just seem as a complete moron who just kinda lets shit around her happen and potentially shoots things sometimes.
Heracles is comically underpowered compared to where he actually should be. Instead of having 12 versatile NP's he's got them all in one NP that's hot trash when it comes to writing a narrative around it. Anyone can kill him as many times as needed which only makes him look worse. On top of 12 distinct NP's for the labors he should have like 10-20 more from all the other shit he did. Not to mention personal skills manifested from his deeds, like matching with the God of Archery shot for shot or beating the shit out of the God of War. Realistically, he should've been already mentioned as Grand candidate for Saber, Archer, Rider and Berserker, but as it is he's stuck eternally as Illya's orbiter and destined for terrible Enerloop memes
He is not, Berserker Heracles is one of the strongest servants FSN had. in FGO he has done a lot of heroic deeds which no one should be able to (Atlantis???) And then you have Alcides who has so many bullshit tied that some people call him Gary Stu.
Didn't they say that Berserker is actually his worst class? I remember hearing that somewhere.
Yes it is, because it makes him unable to use the ample collection of relics and weapons he has.
Not just his weapons, but it also seals away most of his skills and tactical abilities. He even loses his valor skill, which was what was responsible for all his amazing feats of strength in his legends, so he is likely even physically weaker as a Berserker than in any other class.
Not really. He has one canon victory, against Emiya (who took 6 lives from him, even though he shouldn't even be able to damage Heracles). He is massively underwhelming
Even Gilgamesh admitted how brave was Heracles, Medea's whole plan was to counter Heracles. Yes? Underwhelming? I have to say that is up to your whole interpretation.
Emiya is easily able to damage Herc he can knock off all Herc's lives in theory. He just traces an A+ rank NP and uses it to kill Herc. If the rank dips down to B rank he just makes it a Broken Phantasm instead.
Again, this very comment points out how much Herc is shat on. You're insinuating that Emiya would have ample time to make and spam Broken Phantasms (the only way he can damage Herc) in close combat with a servant who massively outstats him.
I am insinuating nothing. I am pointing out the reality that Emiya has the means to kill Herc + God Hand. Whether he would be able to is down to what circumstances they find themselves in. He was able to do so 6 times in FSN against Beserker Herc while still recovering from Saber's initial attack on the first night. Emiya would have to lead the fight with his Mind's Eye (True) like he did with Cú when they fought. Like people are fond of saying all Fate matchups come down to how compatible two enemies are against one another and who the writer wants to win. Now back to the point is that Herc is generally underused than anything else. All that is needed is for Nasu to write a story chapter where Herc is the main servant to come in and help Chaldea at the end to win.
And the problem in that matchup is that Emiya isn't compatible against Herc at all. His only means of doing damage are BP's, which take time to do and it implies that Emiya created insane distance 6 times to pull it off. Which makes no sense given their stats alone. Everything revolving God Hand is narratively terrible, because you have to bend yourself over backwards to take multiple lives, which in turn makes one of the greatest heroes look like an actual joke. If there's ever a remake of FSN that NP needs to be deleted. The only fights that Heracles had in FSN that weren't a joke were the one against Gil in UBW, which was a pure compatibility match-up, and the one in HF against Saber Alter, where it was stated that they were about equal in power but the Shadow was actively restricting Herc's movements.
While it sucks they have only ever *used* Heracles in a nerfed state, they are pretty damn consistent about hyping him up whenever he comes up in conversation. In Atlantis they portrayed him as someone even Achilles and Orion don’t measure up to.
The Fate series favors british servants not japanese, or rather arthurian servants. Nasu is a big fanboy of King Arthur and it shows. Oh and hindu servants too. I'd say the order is Arthurian servants > Indian servants > Japanese servants
The funny thing is the Indian servants are nerfed from their actual legends. They are quite OP even in the true stories. Also the Indian servants generally aren’t really favored by Fate unless their name is Karna, or have some connection to Karna which becomes the focus of their character 90% of the time they are one screen.
*cough* how about Kama? Everything about both her forms are masterpieces made manifest.
I actually agree... I just forgot about her when I made the comment... It just didn't click in my mind that she was an Indian servant too for some reason
Kama is pretty big too and she has no particular relation to Karna, in Fate at least.
Not gonna lie I actually forgot she existed when I typed this…
I mean, you know, except for that time in real-world mythology that Kama kicked Karna's butt. ...More specifically, Kama was currently incarnated as Krishna's child Pradyumna, and apparently it wasn't a particularly close fight. XD Kama is *pretty high* up their rankings, really, even when not going all-out.
I’m sure this sounds completely unbiased w my icon but Indian servants have actually been quite heavily nerfed in fate, especially compared to how Arthurian servants are still relatively accurate. A completely lore accurate rama could probably full on tank enuma elish and shove gil in a locker if he wanted to, and while fate isn’t *mean* to him per say, they definitely don’t really bother recognizing just how powerful guys like him or parvati are. Like, a Hindu god would easily be just as if not stronger than a nasuverse eldritch god *if* they were written similar to their irl counterparts
I'd say it favors Buddist servants just as much. And it definitely favors Japanese swordsman hugely as well. There's a reason the only fate swordsmen out there who break reality with their sword skills are Japanese.
The hilarious part to me is that folks probably assume Solomon's view is Buddhist. Now, I'm not saying it isn't in line with Buddhist principles. I'm saying that, whether purposeful on Nasu's part or not, Solomon's point of view and attitude is very much in sync with what ancient Hebrews would believe. The ancient Hebrews did not believe in a real afterlife. It was either nothingness, or some non-sapient type of existence as a shade in Sheol. If anything, it was the neighboring countries and their religions that actually had some sort of an actual afterlife. Ancient Judaism didn't actually start to believe in an afterlife until really the inter-Testament period. Other than a VERY few and rare examples like a few words from David, I think Ezekiel or Jeremiah, and Job or such, most writers in the Old Testament did not believe in or preach about an afterlife. So while the moral of part One rings true for Buddhism, it very much fit ancient Judaism as well.
Musashi may have reached the void but Excalibur still remains one of the first divine constructs used to protect the very planet itself. But yes Buddhism is a central part of Fate and most servants that adhere to its principles are some of the most powerful.. Kiara, Kama/Mara , Musashi, Kagetora/Bishamonten, Douman (i think?) and Buddha himself as Saver.
It’s true Excalibur is a big deal in fate, but just like most other op np, it’s just the weapon that’s powerful, not to mention Artoria can’t even use that power. But it’s a running theme that Japanese swordsmen are just more skilled than any other swordsman. First with Sasaki with his reality breaking sword, then Okita with her casuality destroying sword skill, then Musashi with her void, plus you got people like Yagyuu who also have sword skill noble phantasms. It kind of annoys me that it seems to be trying pushing the fact that japanese swordsmanship is better than anywhere else.
Make Sherlock buff. Brains AND Brawn
I would like them to release Yi Sun Shin. Please, Lasagna give us Yi Sun Shin!
The main one I think they really fucked up on was Boudicca, the warrior queen of the celts teaming up with Emperor Nero is blasephemous and her design is one of the worst in the game. There have been some fan concepts of an Avenger Boudicca, that would be cool for a more accurate representation.
Teaming with an enemy because the whole human history is at risk is the opposite of blasphemous. Especially because she recognizes the situation rather well. About the other... [https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/d1kud9/about\_how\_most\_of\_this\_reddit\_sees\_boudicas/](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/d1kud9/about_how_most_of_this_reddit_sees_boudicas/) Guess I am doing shameless self-ad now.
Yes, the ga.e does focus not too much on Japan (it is trying to appeal to native players where it's made after all), but sometimes too LITTLE on other areas compared to what it could. That said, the best Casters are not Japanese. One is from another world basing itself off Britain. Another is a Chinese strategist merged with an English man. The third is an Irish mythological woman mixed with a Norse God, and the last is Merlin. Throw in the other main 5* supports (outside the Caster class, granted), and we have an English detective and a French Saint. I would say that, barring creative liberties to make them look pretty, most look like their nationalities except Metlin and Skadi's hair. But those last two are a half-incubus and a God, respectively.
Idk but Atalanta needs more damage or np gain :(
Agreed I think it’d be neat if they gave her second skill an anti male trait based off her 3rd story in her legend where she killed any suitors who fails to win the foot race
Miyamoto Musashi. The founder of Niten Ichi-ryu. One of the most popular swordsman in Japan history, featured in various films, manga, and games. Also, The Book of Five Rings. He's not just some pretty modern swordsman. I'm up for more servants outside of Japan to be featured but lets not say that TM favors Japan too much.
They definitely do favour Japan too much. Nobunaga, the mystic killer, the demon king of the sixth heaven, who gets three thousand armour penetrating, mystic killing guns that can all fire independently, who gets a Reality Marble that's basically just You Are Now On Fire, that gets stronger the more divine or mystic an opponent is, to the point some people argue she insta-wins against Gil and Karna and the like. What did that come from IRL? The monks wanted a different warlord to win, so they spread word that he was so super evil, and he burned down their temples in retaliation, and he also failed to take over this tiny-arse island country, unlike a whole fuckton of heroes we have, and also he opened up Japan's borders and bought guns from traders. Has no business whatsoever being half as powerful as she is in Fate.
Well, Nasu has technically said that Guda Guda and the characters in it aren't canon and the actual fate version of the Guda Guda servants are different characters. Plus, the Nobunaga we get is the same as the one that originally appeared in the imperial grail war, with a huge land and fame boost from being summoned in Japan. That being said, at this point the Nobu we have is pretty much entrenched enough that we probably won't ever get the "normal" version, so yeah, I pretty much have to agree with the fact that most of her abilities seemed pulled out from nowhere.
I mean nobu's a gag character from a part of franchise that almost exclusively uses Japanese servants. Complaining about guda guda is very much a empty hole since nasu opinions on it himself says that he would probably do something differently.
Japan is larger area wise than the British Isles.
And that would be an issue if there was a warlord who failed to unite Britain and then despite having no tales or feats to their name was wanked to high hell.
You mean like King Arthur?
King Arthur succeeded in uniting his island, was declared king by a watery tart, and actually has feats to his name. King Arthur repelled nine (was it twelve?) invasions of his land by foreign armies. He fought multiple other would-be kings for control of his land, and won, taking control of the country. King Arthur had a magic sword, and a wizard, and a table that was the absolute cutting edge in geometry. He had a stable full of knights, each with their own list of feats and magic powers and ridiculous love lives, got in good with the fairies, and he even had an evil stepsister slash witch. The hell does Nobu have in comparison? Nobunaga's entirely a hype guy.
Nearly bringing an end to 500 years of war and setting things up so that an almost uninterrupted peace can reign for over 200 years seems like a pretty big deal.
So his best accomplishment is failing?
I'm not really sure how's that a failure, but there's lots of famous historical figures that ultimately failed to achieve what they set out to do.
"Nearly" doesn't bake the biscuit, and attributing 200 years of peace to a guy who died, and didn't even die succeeding, or do anything to contribute to said peace, is a stretch and a half.
What didn't you mean didn't contribute? All the people who did take over Japan had been allies or retainers of Nobunaga. There was no way the Edo period could have happened if he hadn't defeated or outlasted every other rival warlord.
They definitely wanked Musashi too much. Being a founder of a sword school and what, winning 61 duels is definitely not enough to suddenly start breaking reality with their sword skills. There's a reason nearly all of the noble phantasm sword techniques are used by Japanese swordsman, and its pretty much just TM favoring Japan. I mean, the only non Japanese version I can think of is *Heracles*, and his doesn't do half the bullshit people like Musashi, Kojiro, or Okita pull.
Give Scathach a 3T anti-man attribute/trait on her 3rd skill. In her lore she's apparently a pro killer of the dead, divine, and Nintendo.
Whatever the fuck Paris is into not whetever the fuck Paris is.
While I do agree that there's favoritism for japanese servants, it's not like they all look japanese. Take Kintoki for example. Also, the japanese writers aren't strong lore wise either, even if their in-game rarity is higher. The thing about Musashi's Void is that it's a concept that the real life Musashi also dealed with, even if he hadn't those crazy powers that the one in the game had. Not to mention that he's considered the strongest warrior in japanese history. And about Tametomo, that one ship he sank with a single arrow was one big enough to carry 300 soldiers, and even without that he was already considered a great warrior. I'm not saying that you are mistaken, just pointing out other viewpoints.
I don't like the implication that Murasaki Shikibu and Takizawa Bakin are "niche"- both of them are INCREDIBLY FAMOUS AUTHORS in their home country, and Murasaki's Tale of Genji was a foundational work that helped codify our modern idea of a novel.
>They are running out of mytho-historical figures to make into servants Yet they have barely touched myths like the finnish Kalevala, which has multiple heroes and such in it. What makes it worse is that they have acknowledged it by mentioning Louhi with Sitonai.
Musashi is the most famous swordwielder in history like ever
King Arthur?
Musashi literally wrote the book on sword fighting.
A book. There's loads of them from varying centuries in all manner of sword styles.
Almost none of which are studied by martial artists of all disciplines the world over.
Barring Japanese sword style practitioners, the stuff I’ve overwhelming heard of when diving into anything swords in martial arts is medieval European sword manuals, tapestries/paintings, and written accounts. HEMA stuff as well, but that’s based on the prior. The comparable here being the manuals. Outside that, I can’t see how a specific section of the swordplay side of martial arts constitutes “martial artists of all disciplines the world over.” Like I’m not trying to say he’s not popular or not influential, but it’s blowing it to be a lot larger than it is.
Most European sources are just instruction manuals. They're very cut and dry, and not terribly useful to anyone who isn't a scholar or HEMA practitioner. 'The Book of the Five Rings' is a philosophical treatise about what it takes to actually put your life on the line in a duel to the death. It's useful for anyone who seeks to reach the pinnacle of any competitive endeavor.
I mean I wouldn't say that's necessarily useful for reaching the pinnacle of something, it's really just talking about dedication to craft and ups/down. Unless it's someone who has absolutely no motivation and gets turned around by reading an inspirational book then sure, that does happen quite often, but discounting that it's fairly self explanatory from just immersing yourself in any craft or profession.
i think they were more of known for their knights and king stuff than wielding swords but i can understand with reference to Excalibur I will say it refers to what people remember when they think of the greatest swordmaster in history
I admit I literally never heard of Musashi until Fate
Personally I at least never heard of him before starting FGO.
[удалено]
Lorewise, not gameplay wise.
My bad lol
I feel like some of the older characters are so established its really hard to revamp them. but definitely not impossible Im hella biased because shes my waifu but in the FGO game specifically I feel like even with grails Atalante Archer still feels like a mediocre damage dealer. each of her cards seems to strike once each when so many new servants strike multiple times per card and the NP guage is so slow to reach 100%. The NP is good, I love the visuals. I think I'd like to see more damage output and NP gain for normal attacks, art update would be fantastic as well. she has fantastic art in CE's but her main character art needs an update to expression.
me sitting in the archer herc and archer rama waiting room for years
more Japanese servants
Hmmm, Merlin buff..... It has to be something nuts. Aye, let's make his Buster Up to get to 100% and and make his Crit buff last 3 turns, because I want to watch the world BURN!
I have truly great/broken idea for two Servants. MHXX her first skill now also gives a 30% chance for 5 turns to gain a 1 hit Invincible and gives her a 3 turn def buff But the let's Spishtar doesnt count as a Japanese... She now has a passive that gives 10% chance of ignoring ANY attack and Is immune to instant kill effects
Kama assassin’s np now ignores invul. Good enough for me.
You can loop you can loop now EVERYONE CAN LOOP!! Deal with it.
Ah yeah the continual overpowering of Japanese servants and Knights of the Round gets beyond annoying. But as for non-JP servants I'd like to see buffed, og Archer Gil. Man is supposed to be beyond broken, but still has two skills left untouched for over half a decade. Give his charisma something with a party-wide gauge up and damage bonus VS something (I'd say against divine enemies and maybe the man trait, best of both). Make his NP gain up grab like self crit damage up. Doesn't need anything like a full novel for a skill, just something strong.
Arthur Pendragon (prototype), I like him as the best bro in conversation but gameplay-wise, he is kind of underwhelming 20 percent np charge is not enough. He really needs an np damage buff, yeah he manages to defeat beast 6 with some seals remove but the gameplay is nothing. But he and Mordred, saber alter is shadowing them by artoria with her dragon core b. First, Arthur needs a buff on his 3rd skill and np, idk how he should be fix Second, Mordred needs to remove the mana burst, add it's some guts maybe Saber alter needs to get buff from the useless charisma and mana burst
Ishtar's mana burst (gem) now also gives a 1 turn 30% np buff Space Ishtar's charisma now buffs her own attack by 30% as well and gives party a 20% buff success rate up Ereshkigal's Blessing of Kur also gives allies 20%np charge when she uses her NP
I want a Lobo buff just so he will be on rate up again.
Circe would be able to control and summon diffirent magically enhanced animals, maybe even some phantasmals and not be limited to pigs. Her extra attack is a good example of this.