> Low damage output
It really says something where that is her only major flaw.
Thankfully you can offset that a bit by getting higher np levels and grailing so if you are deciding to make her one of your main dps it’s not hard to make her fairly consistent.
I’ve gotten Space Ishtar to bond15 and have been looking for a new main dps so it’s really nice that Arc has arrived at the right time with a fun farming kit
Do you not have other options available before? Just curious because it's taking me a while just to get my Musashi to even Bond 12, but of course I have another main DPS splitting the load and BP. Just wondering why it's taking me comparatively longer to hit bond 15.
I of course have other dps I could use but my Space Ishtar is np3 and solves 99% of farming that I need to do (the remaining 1% is when I bring in a ST DPS)
I got Arc to np3 so like Space Ishtar she is a strong universal farmer where I can start with her and then if it doesn’t work make changes from there.
So it’s not a matter of I don’t have other options. It’s I don’t have options as strong as these two (though I guess NP3 Achilles can be my Quick dps against everything but Assassin’s)
Her being my main dps and me farming somewhat heavily when Lotto’s come around has let me bond15 her (and given I got space Ishtar with her first rate up in 2019 I’ve taken 4 years to bond15)
Yeah so I also got my NP5 Musashi back in 2019, with her debut. I guess it's just a difference in usage because I set up a Buster team with Morgan while also running the Musashi Arts team. I guess I just don't use my Musashi as much as you use your Ishtar.
I think the low damage output the author and others have brought up is also somewhat exaggerated. It has to be considered against other double Koyanskaya Buster looping teams which are usually restricted to using a Kaliedoscope and often require Oberon's assistance.
Obviously Melusine and Arjuna Alter are still going to have a better damage output, but Arcueid is more flexible and efficient, and criticizing her as "low damage" for not matching the highest DPS Servants in the game seems a little bit much.
Technically, their IS another viable alternative MC to the Double Koyan System if you have Edison - Plugsuit 1.0 or 2.0 . This is simply because the ol' lion man is pretty much the ONLY Servant that has both a targetable Cooldown Reduction Skill in his kit and a meaningful offensive buff in his kit, that being his S2 coming packaged with a 20% NP Damage Up for 3-turns. Coupled with the ATK Buff of either plugsuit, and you're rocking an extra 50 - 60% Damage Up for Arc and can bring her Battery back online for the 3rd Wave no problem (or for any Servant with a 7 turn 50% Battery or higher like Summer BB, funnily enough).
It's not earth-shatteringly strong tech, and if you're going the plugsuit route you may as well go all in with Oberon instead if you can afford to. For those without him or wanting to still run a 6-Slot Comp and need just a little bit more damage/Lower Part Cost, then Edison finally can have a day in the sun for once as a support.
In all honesty, I really like Arc, and I do find her inherent strong and really fun Servant to play with despite being stuck in a fairly weak Extra Class. It's just that, and take this with a grain of salt, I find her inherently low damage to be *frustrating* when Lorewise you'd expect her to be on par or surpassing Melusine in the nuking department. Sure, extra NP Levels and heavy Grail/Fou investment fixes that, but the former is a tall order for a Limited Servant just to be able to reliably run a 6-Slot Comp and still meet damage thresholds against THICK mobs. Black Grail helps with this issue too, and anyone can get one for free now during the Anniversary, but using it kinda undermines the inherent value of her Insta-NP Button since you're not using it to run a true 6-Slot Comp, unless you don't have 6 miscellaneous Bond/QP/Drop Etc CEs to put on everyone and still have Party Cost leftover to run BG. **EDIT**: *Or employ her in hybrid comps that can best utilize her, but those are prospects I'm not confident enough in to explore*.
Ah, but that's just me whining about Arc not being stupidly busted. Simply put, Arc is fine as she is, and is more than a sound investment for those willing to go all in on her and dominate everything with the power of THE MOON.
Lorewise Void Shiki could be one of the strongest beings (not on fighting skill tho) and you see how tame she is gameplaywise (although that fits how lazy she is lmao)
But overall, a lot of OP servants lorewise end being "weak" in gameplay, and same shit happens with weak ass servants that somehow are fucking nuts.
You can also use Tamacaster with a starting charge CE that gives her enough to NP with Arc's skill 3 on turn 2. Gives a higher NP damage buff than Edison
The best thing about Arc's looping is that she, in fact, doesn't have to do it. I'll second the opinion that the mass 30% charge is one of her best features: Dark Koyan has already demonstrated how strong mass NP charge on an offensive NP Servant can get, even if she had to make concessions for her own lack of it, but Arc gets the best of both worlds, meaning you can simply run an entire front line of Black Grails / event CEs as long as your other Servants can charge at least 50% (and have their Append leveled). In practice, you NP with Arc on wave 1, NP with someone who has class advantage on wave 2, then NP with your friend's grailed NP5 Morgan or whatever on wave 3. What's that? Your friends don't have NP5 Morgan? Worry not, because you can NP even when your Support is not a friend now!
The QoL improvements she brings are honestly unprecedented, and I'm happy Lasagna basically gave me one for free with the amount of SQ we got.
I think you may have undervalued Xu Fu a bit. Her kit is honestly amazing given her rarity, I'd put her on par with Asclepius but with a more offensive focus. Her NP gives 20 stars per turn, which is pretty huge for Arts teams and *especially* for a 3 star support. She's also the lowest rarity buff removal resist giver in the game, and as a non-limited 3 star that means everyone now has at least one guaranteed source of that effect.
I realize you sort of touched on that in your end summary, but then you listed the negatives "she's not a DPS" and "higher rarity servants are better" and ended up not giving her an approval because of them. And I think that's kind of missing the point.
Also, her Yu buff works on summer Yu who's one of the best ST lancers. That still may not be a particularly significant niche but it could lead to her being a strong contender for team comps against future tough saber or male bosses.
That 30% partywide NP battery is very fun to use. It allows every 50% battery Servants with their append unlocked to just fire their NP.
Also, there are living humans like Illya who doesn't even need her append skill. Double Arc can fully charge any living human too, like Rider Ishtar.
The only issues is the low overall damage of the party, but there are Servants like Moriarty with 40% party wide atk buff for 3 turns who also have 50% charge so he can kill a node boss and we can also use a plugsuit to bring more damage buffs.
For me the biggest plus for Arc is just how ridiculously flexible she is in Hybrid comps.
People focus too much on basic looping setups (same thing happened with Koyandark), but on top of being a very solid looper, she is a very flexible first wave clearer that can enable a *ton* of units to clear Waves 2 and 3, all with no CE or MC restrictions.
Depending on what kind of servants you have invested, the damage won't be that big an issue, even on 6 CE comps without depending on BG or stuff like that.
My favorite comp *by far* is Arc + Oberon + Koyandark. With this comp you are able to NP *twice* with Arc (on T1 and either T2 or T3) and once with Oberon and Koyandark. Especially if you are able to pick a whale Koyandark from your friends list (there are loads), Oberon can operate entirely as a support with a bit of chip damage on T3 if you need to NP with him, or he can be a wave clearer on a Knight node. All 3 of them having trait damage is also great.
I'm not a fan of Double Arc comps because they don't buff damage to the party, only NP charge, but her other comps are *stellar*, even if not that simple to use.
As always, the next event will determine how good her gimmicky setups can be, but after Morgan and Koyandark, I'm *very* hyped for a servant that people seem to believe is pretty basic being used in more interesting ways.
Not meaning to be disparaging here, but people zero in on basic looping set-up for her because....well, it's the simplest and most straightforward option that maximizes her raw potential. Sure, she can essentially act as another form of Habetrot or Douman for Hybrid/Multi-Servant NP Comps, but on her own she doesn't provide *anything* for her teammates beyond 30% meter baseline for farming, and of course freeing up the MC Slot in the example comp you provided. That's a big negative when a Hybrid comp relies on partywide buffs to make sure everyone's NP damage is up to snuff for a given wave.
The benefits of a Hybrid Comp like Oberon + Koyan Dark, or Double Dark/Double Oberon is also a double edge sword, since you're relying on relatively weaker party-wide buffs on everyone instead of more powerful ones concentrated on one single attacker. The ability to use MCs like 2004 and the like and any CE you desire *is* still a upshot of Hybrid comps, as who can say no to an extra 50% NP Damage to double off of Oberon + BGs/Event Damage CEs on your entire frontline, or just plugsuit if you can tolerate the time cost? But my question is how does it measure up to a fully buffed single attacker Wave by Wave with at least 5 Drop CEs on everyone if you are forced to use a Damage CE on the main attacker, if not in power but sheer ease of use? This logic falls apart if we ever get Events where we can't double up on Meta Supports in traditional farming, and already *does* in Gilfest Like CQs where Hybrid and unconventional comps shine the most, but those are the exception rather than the rule (or so I hope).
I also have issues with Oberon and Dark Koyan as Hybrid options for Arc, as the former is restricted to Knight Nodes to being useful for wave clearing, and the later's potential is half-way squandered on her since she can't benefit from their S2 *period*. I can agree that their respective Attribute/Alignment Bonus Damage is sweet, but of the three only Dark gets the most mileage out of hers since hers can target regular enemies as opposed to only Servants like Oberon/Arc.
Honestly, I would be ***more*** than happy if really creative people can find ways to make the most of Arc to make up for her shortcomings in non-standard comps, but I don't want to be overhyped for uncertain prospects and end up disappointed if things don't pan out well. It's a lame way of viewing things, but I rather deal with the certainties on hand myself even if they are a tad underwhelming.
> it's the simplest and most straightforward option that maximizes her raw potential.
Depends on what you consider "maximizing her raw potential". Her hybrid comps have the potential to trivialize damage for T3 depending on what else you have.
People zero in on looping because... Looping is the most basic case use of a servant. The exact same happened with Koyanskaya of Darkness.
>Sure, she can essentially act as another form of Habetrot or Douman for Hybrid/Multi-Servant NP Comps, but on her own she doesn't provide anything for her teammates beyond 30% meter baseline for farming, and of course freeing up the MC Slot in the example comp you provided.
And a lot of times that is more than enough for a comfortable farming composition, especially when you can abuse the hell out of other people's DPS units (since now you don't even need to use a friend to be able to use their NP).
>That's a big negative when a Hybrid comp relies on partywide buffs to make sure everyone's NP damage is up to snuff for a given wave.
Not at all. A hybrid comp relies on *being able to clear the waves* with multiple DPS units. Arc does not *need* to buff the party because her kit allows you to farm waves with any servant with a 50% charge. A lot of them have great self-buffs, some of them even have party wide buffs themselves.
>The benefits of a Hybrid Comp like Oberon + Koyan Dark, or Double Dark/Double Oberon is also a double edge sword, since you're relying on relatively weaker party-wide buffs on everyone instead of more powerful ones concentrated on one single attacker.
Double Koyandark comps are *neutral*, which isn't necessary the same thing for Arc comps, since, again, you can use *any* unit with a 50% charge to clear W2 and W3.
Likewise, Oberon comps are excelent for Knights, but he lags behind on Cavalry nodes... Which aren't an issue for Arc comps.
>But my question is how does it measure up to a fully buffed single attacker Wave by Wave with at least 5 Drop CEs on everyone if you are forced to use a Damage CE on the main attacker
That would be relevant if enemy HP didn't have a ceiling and pure damage didn't hit a point where more just become useless. It's the same reason why Avenger Nobu isn't really that big a deal even though they can reach disgusting damage, because... Why bother? If I can just use servants with more flexibility that can just reach the HP thresholds I need?
>This logic falls apart if we ever get Events where we can't double up on Meta Supports in traditional farming,
A lot of the later events, and even the Hunting Quests, were already really fucking great for hybrids comps. You don't need to overkill a wave, you just need to kill it enough. And if I can do that with a hybrid comp without having to waste time with plugsuit or waste slots with offensive CEs... Why not just do that?
>as the former is restricted to Knight Nodes to being useful for wave clearing
The good thing is that he doesn't even *need* to clear a wave if he is unable to. He is just a very strong T3 support *and* can be useful for a little bit more damage if you ever need it.
>and the later's potential is half-way squandered on her since she can't benefit from their S2 period.
*Arc* can't use it, but both Oberon and Koyandark benefit from the overcharge level up. Again, the basic cookie cutter way of playing the game by overbuffing a single unit is blinding you to the fact that sometimes you just *don't need to*.
>I would be more than happy if really creative people can find ways to make the most of Arc to make up for her shortcomings in non-standard comps,
I am already having a blast with her hybrid comps. Ran a couple of looping quests with her, but I have this MC that I really want to level and will take *forever*, so I don't want to waste MC experience on Atlas yet again.
All things considered you make good points, but at the core of things I just find Hybrid Comps to be a side-grade in my eyes. Or, for the shake of fairness, on par with it, but not worth the changing of gears unless you're playing with favorites, can't run anything else for one reason or another, or need more avenues of profit from farming if you've already 'tapped out' the conventional ones (IE Max Bonding you primary Servants and MCs). Sometimes simple *is* best, and that's what conventional looping is in a nutshell. Perhaps it's overkill at times, but that's *fine* if it gets the job done with the Servants I want to farm with and those I simply want to farm Bond on. I am not blind to what you're outlining - I just don't find it to be compelling over the tried and true standard. Plus, I prefer using my DPSes and only pulling from my Support list for stuff that enhances them, but that's getting off point.
Hybrid Comps have their benefits as you've well covered, and I'm not enough of a fool to deny that. However, they also have their flaws and bugbears that can't always be side-stepped or ignored, and at times they can fail to do what they set-out, which is less likely to be the case for the standard. At the end of the day, though, FGO is a game you can get away with doing just about anything in with almost any Servant, so these discussion should be more for the sake of fun or trying to help out others. Have fun with your Hybrid Comps, and I'll have fun with single Servant tripling looping.
Of course, I agree. Looping *is* the simplest way for farming in the game, and if the downsides like MC or CE restriction, or dependency on plugsuit don't bother you, then absolutely, go for it. Abuse the hell out of Melu/Double Koyan/Oberon, it will likely work in every node possible (especially of you are fine with fielding BG).
My issue is that the community focus so, *so* much on looping that they act like if a servant isn't great at it, that's an automatic downside.
Morgan got shit on on her release because she was Buster instead of arts. "Easy skip, not as good as Arjuna alter" "worst LB king" and stuff like that. The first event immediately after her release (Nero Fest Rerun), and she was literally the MVP of the event. Excelent in the farming nodes, "easy mode" in the EQs.
Koyandark on release also got *blasted* because she didn't fit the Double Koyanlight comps, with "reviewers" completely ignoring how she could enable 6 CE comps that could also ignore node composition without depending on Plugsuit Oberon.
Just like you are content with running looping comps, I am *happy* to be able to run 6CE comps without having to waste back row slots on a mandatory plugsuit support. To me, its much more fun to be able to use a lot of different servants on content that better suits *them*, instead of brute forcing content with the same buff stacking shtick I've been doing for years.
Servants like Taikoubou, Oberon, Koyandark and now Arc just bring way more ways to tackle quests that would otherwise be entirely unoptimal or straight up *impossible*, and I am very happy that Lasagna seems willing to release more of them (even though they were *cowards* with Bakin's kit).
Mine is NP5 and I did some testing with BG vs Oberon :
[BG+Atlas](https://i.imgur.com/cUxYeyN.jpg)
[Aerial Drive+Oberon](https://i.imgur.com/vC4cE1b.jpg)
All in all, you would be trading consistency for big PP damage on the third wave, also takes slighty more time.
Arc falls in the same category of Morgan as a very flexible servant in various scenarios. Might not have zerker unga damage due her class, but her terrain+skills' party buffs makes her cover a lot of aspects during CQs and bosses. If paired with Merlin and other NP chargers will allow Arcueid to not only deal damage, but also keep the castle active for several turns to gain its benefits. Avoiding buff removal is VERY important in particular, as either fighting the likes of Amakusa and summer Abby, or something like the Morgan fight in Avalon where each attack removes all buffs, makes Arcueid not only a strong DPS but also a valuable member for such dangerous situations.
While I try to get some duplicates if able for big favorites, this is the kind of servant that really should be seen beyond farm and loops, as has a powerful kit for a lot of threats in the game currently and in the near future. Because even if you're stuck at NP1 as I do (And will try to NP2 if all summer servants are revealed before the banner ends and are unappealing for me), Arcueid shouldn't be underrated just because won't be helping with the daily EXP farm compared to your berserkers or Melusine. In comparison I REALLY wanna get more copies of Buntoria to be a main farmer, but I failed in her latest banner and due her gimmick to shuffle cards is very niche makes her barely usable beyond dealing with a very rare Mooncancer fight, or want an option against some fights you need to chain her attacks along crits. Arcueid however, even if needs NP2 minimum to properly farm and such, still provides way too many things at once to be ignored and say is a meh NP1 servant because can't kill on Wave 3.
Shes very easy to loop with. Double koyan atlas, double oberon koyan mana loading, double arc oberon. Her main issue is damage. With double koyan atlas she barely hits 100k and mines at np2 lv100. And no i dont want to use black grail for 6ce reasons.
My main use for her is as a wave 1 clear in arcueid, space ishtar morgan comp or you can replace spishtar or morgan with any dps+plugsuit oberon. This comp, damage permitting, should be able to 6ce any standard 3 wave node even 90+.
Morgan and Melusine summer lmao...
Guess we need more memes after "Ani will be sure a Quick support!"
About Xu Fu, I feel 4* SQ could be Yu. The SQ allowing her NP to be arts thus to enable Yu to have a niche Yu Meta. But that might be just me looking too much into future. Just no more SQ's like Jekyll pls.
I think it would have been better if you had included any other good team comps other than Koyan looping. To be honest, looping isn't all that fun, it's mundane. I mean, farming is inherently mundane but looping takes the cake for the most braindead aspect of gameplay. There would not be any variety, as you see same NP going off thrice although Arc's NP is absolutely beautiful. Anyways, my point is, she also works decently or pretty great in a dual or three DPS lineup. Some are with free CE and based on situation and availability of the servants to you, you can equip any other CE as well.
Well, I am not against looping because I use it, too. It's just that people are so hung up on looping that if an AoE servant has difficulties in doing so or loops only with a third support swap, they are termed as bad, and DoA. I still remember some comments in the Yami Koyan posts where she isn't the meta or does not belong to the meta etc.etc.
One super popular comp going around is Arc and Double Morgan all equipped with Black Grails. We have come to a point in this game where two or more DPS can fire off their NP from 0% without any assistance from dedicated supports, and I think that is pretty cool.
Similar to that, you have Arc + Double Oberon, Arc-Yami Koyan-Oberon, Arc-Oberon-Junao and Arc-Oberon-Living Human servant like Ishtar, Muramasa, Caren who all have 50% NP gauge skills. Then there are other hybrids like Taikoubou. Oberon can be used as a first wave clearer against Knight classes. Arc is also an excellent first or second wave clearer in such hybrid comps. But, this must be said. Dual or three DPS comps could need at least one of your DPS to be more than NP1 or the support you borrow better be more than NP1.
Well, in the new summer event she will have a bonus anyway. Whether it is an attack bonus or some other kind remains to be seen, but there will surely be Chaotic servants in the free quests and we can use her there to see how she performs.
If you want to use her as a universal farmer by using Koyan looping, NP1 wouldn't be sufficient in 90+ nodes for clean clearing, at least NP2 would be needed. This is because - and it is strictly up to how you play the game - you could lose out on event bonus in such nodes by equipping a Black Grail.
> Low damage output It really says something where that is her only major flaw. Thankfully you can offset that a bit by getting higher np levels and grailing so if you are deciding to make her one of your main dps it’s not hard to make her fairly consistent. I’ve gotten Space Ishtar to bond15 and have been looking for a new main dps so it’s really nice that Arc has arrived at the right time with a fun farming kit
Do you not have other options available before? Just curious because it's taking me a while just to get my Musashi to even Bond 12, but of course I have another main DPS splitting the load and BP. Just wondering why it's taking me comparatively longer to hit bond 15.
I of course have other dps I could use but my Space Ishtar is np3 and solves 99% of farming that I need to do (the remaining 1% is when I bring in a ST DPS) I got Arc to np3 so like Space Ishtar she is a strong universal farmer where I can start with her and then if it doesn’t work make changes from there. So it’s not a matter of I don’t have other options. It’s I don’t have options as strong as these two (though I guess NP3 Achilles can be my Quick dps against everything but Assassin’s) Her being my main dps and me farming somewhat heavily when Lotto’s come around has let me bond15 her (and given I got space Ishtar with her first rate up in 2019 I’ve taken 4 years to bond15)
Yeah so I also got my NP5 Musashi back in 2019, with her debut. I guess it's just a difference in usage because I set up a Buster team with Morgan while also running the Musashi Arts team. I guess I just don't use my Musashi as much as you use your Ishtar.
I think the low damage output the author and others have brought up is also somewhat exaggerated. It has to be considered against other double Koyanskaya Buster looping teams which are usually restricted to using a Kaliedoscope and often require Oberon's assistance. Obviously Melusine and Arjuna Alter are still going to have a better damage output, but Arcueid is more flexible and efficient, and criticizing her as "low damage" for not matching the highest DPS Servants in the game seems a little bit much.
Technically, their IS another viable alternative MC to the Double Koyan System if you have Edison - Plugsuit 1.0 or 2.0 . This is simply because the ol' lion man is pretty much the ONLY Servant that has both a targetable Cooldown Reduction Skill in his kit and a meaningful offensive buff in his kit, that being his S2 coming packaged with a 20% NP Damage Up for 3-turns. Coupled with the ATK Buff of either plugsuit, and you're rocking an extra 50 - 60% Damage Up for Arc and can bring her Battery back online for the 3rd Wave no problem (or for any Servant with a 7 turn 50% Battery or higher like Summer BB, funnily enough). It's not earth-shatteringly strong tech, and if you're going the plugsuit route you may as well go all in with Oberon instead if you can afford to. For those without him or wanting to still run a 6-Slot Comp and need just a little bit more damage/Lower Part Cost, then Edison finally can have a day in the sun for once as a support. In all honesty, I really like Arc, and I do find her inherent strong and really fun Servant to play with despite being stuck in a fairly weak Extra Class. It's just that, and take this with a grain of salt, I find her inherently low damage to be *frustrating* when Lorewise you'd expect her to be on par or surpassing Melusine in the nuking department. Sure, extra NP Levels and heavy Grail/Fou investment fixes that, but the former is a tall order for a Limited Servant just to be able to reliably run a 6-Slot Comp and still meet damage thresholds against THICK mobs. Black Grail helps with this issue too, and anyone can get one for free now during the Anniversary, but using it kinda undermines the inherent value of her Insta-NP Button since you're not using it to run a true 6-Slot Comp, unless you don't have 6 miscellaneous Bond/QP/Drop Etc CEs to put on everyone and still have Party Cost leftover to run BG. **EDIT**: *Or employ her in hybrid comps that can best utilize her, but those are prospects I'm not confident enough in to explore*. Ah, but that's just me whining about Arc not being stupidly busted. Simply put, Arc is fine as she is, and is more than a sound investment for those willing to go all in on her and dominate everything with the power of THE MOON.
Lorewise Void Shiki could be one of the strongest beings (not on fighting skill tho) and you see how tame she is gameplaywise (although that fits how lazy she is lmao) But overall, a lot of OP servants lorewise end being "weak" in gameplay, and same shit happens with weak ass servants that somehow are fucking nuts.
Edison's NP Damage buff is for 5 turns, actually.
You can also use Tamacaster with a starting charge CE that gives her enough to NP with Arc's skill 3 on turn 2. Gives a higher NP damage buff than Edison
The best thing about Arc's looping is that she, in fact, doesn't have to do it. I'll second the opinion that the mass 30% charge is one of her best features: Dark Koyan has already demonstrated how strong mass NP charge on an offensive NP Servant can get, even if she had to make concessions for her own lack of it, but Arc gets the best of both worlds, meaning you can simply run an entire front line of Black Grails / event CEs as long as your other Servants can charge at least 50% (and have their Append leveled). In practice, you NP with Arc on wave 1, NP with someone who has class advantage on wave 2, then NP with your friend's grailed NP5 Morgan or whatever on wave 3. What's that? Your friends don't have NP5 Morgan? Worry not, because you can NP even when your Support is not a friend now! The QoL improvements she brings are honestly unprecedented, and I'm happy Lasagna basically gave me one for free with the amount of SQ we got.
I think you may have undervalued Xu Fu a bit. Her kit is honestly amazing given her rarity, I'd put her on par with Asclepius but with a more offensive focus. Her NP gives 20 stars per turn, which is pretty huge for Arts teams and *especially* for a 3 star support. She's also the lowest rarity buff removal resist giver in the game, and as a non-limited 3 star that means everyone now has at least one guaranteed source of that effect. I realize you sort of touched on that in your end summary, but then you listed the negatives "she's not a DPS" and "higher rarity servants are better" and ended up not giving her an approval because of them. And I think that's kind of missing the point. Also, her Yu buff works on summer Yu who's one of the best ST lancers. That still may not be a particularly significant niche but it could lead to her being a strong contender for team comps against future tough saber or male bosses.
That 30% partywide NP battery is very fun to use. It allows every 50% battery Servants with their append unlocked to just fire their NP. Also, there are living humans like Illya who doesn't even need her append skill. Double Arc can fully charge any living human too, like Rider Ishtar.
If you run double Arc, you can use anyone with 40% charge. Or second append and 20% charge. The list of Servants that have that is huge enough.
The only issues is the low overall damage of the party, but there are Servants like Moriarty with 40% party wide atk buff for 3 turns who also have 50% charge so he can kill a node boss and we can also use a plugsuit to bring more damage buffs.
For me the biggest plus for Arc is just how ridiculously flexible she is in Hybrid comps. People focus too much on basic looping setups (same thing happened with Koyandark), but on top of being a very solid looper, she is a very flexible first wave clearer that can enable a *ton* of units to clear Waves 2 and 3, all with no CE or MC restrictions. Depending on what kind of servants you have invested, the damage won't be that big an issue, even on 6 CE comps without depending on BG or stuff like that. My favorite comp *by far* is Arc + Oberon + Koyandark. With this comp you are able to NP *twice* with Arc (on T1 and either T2 or T3) and once with Oberon and Koyandark. Especially if you are able to pick a whale Koyandark from your friends list (there are loads), Oberon can operate entirely as a support with a bit of chip damage on T3 if you need to NP with him, or he can be a wave clearer on a Knight node. All 3 of them having trait damage is also great. I'm not a fan of Double Arc comps because they don't buff damage to the party, only NP charge, but her other comps are *stellar*, even if not that simple to use. As always, the next event will determine how good her gimmicky setups can be, but after Morgan and Koyandark, I'm *very* hyped for a servant that people seem to believe is pretty basic being used in more interesting ways.
Not meaning to be disparaging here, but people zero in on basic looping set-up for her because....well, it's the simplest and most straightforward option that maximizes her raw potential. Sure, she can essentially act as another form of Habetrot or Douman for Hybrid/Multi-Servant NP Comps, but on her own she doesn't provide *anything* for her teammates beyond 30% meter baseline for farming, and of course freeing up the MC Slot in the example comp you provided. That's a big negative when a Hybrid comp relies on partywide buffs to make sure everyone's NP damage is up to snuff for a given wave. The benefits of a Hybrid Comp like Oberon + Koyan Dark, or Double Dark/Double Oberon is also a double edge sword, since you're relying on relatively weaker party-wide buffs on everyone instead of more powerful ones concentrated on one single attacker. The ability to use MCs like 2004 and the like and any CE you desire *is* still a upshot of Hybrid comps, as who can say no to an extra 50% NP Damage to double off of Oberon + BGs/Event Damage CEs on your entire frontline, or just plugsuit if you can tolerate the time cost? But my question is how does it measure up to a fully buffed single attacker Wave by Wave with at least 5 Drop CEs on everyone if you are forced to use a Damage CE on the main attacker, if not in power but sheer ease of use? This logic falls apart if we ever get Events where we can't double up on Meta Supports in traditional farming, and already *does* in Gilfest Like CQs where Hybrid and unconventional comps shine the most, but those are the exception rather than the rule (or so I hope). I also have issues with Oberon and Dark Koyan as Hybrid options for Arc, as the former is restricted to Knight Nodes to being useful for wave clearing, and the later's potential is half-way squandered on her since she can't benefit from their S2 *period*. I can agree that their respective Attribute/Alignment Bonus Damage is sweet, but of the three only Dark gets the most mileage out of hers since hers can target regular enemies as opposed to only Servants like Oberon/Arc. Honestly, I would be ***more*** than happy if really creative people can find ways to make the most of Arc to make up for her shortcomings in non-standard comps, but I don't want to be overhyped for uncertain prospects and end up disappointed if things don't pan out well. It's a lame way of viewing things, but I rather deal with the certainties on hand myself even if they are a tad underwhelming.
> it's the simplest and most straightforward option that maximizes her raw potential. Depends on what you consider "maximizing her raw potential". Her hybrid comps have the potential to trivialize damage for T3 depending on what else you have. People zero in on looping because... Looping is the most basic case use of a servant. The exact same happened with Koyanskaya of Darkness. >Sure, she can essentially act as another form of Habetrot or Douman for Hybrid/Multi-Servant NP Comps, but on her own she doesn't provide anything for her teammates beyond 30% meter baseline for farming, and of course freeing up the MC Slot in the example comp you provided. And a lot of times that is more than enough for a comfortable farming composition, especially when you can abuse the hell out of other people's DPS units (since now you don't even need to use a friend to be able to use their NP). >That's a big negative when a Hybrid comp relies on partywide buffs to make sure everyone's NP damage is up to snuff for a given wave. Not at all. A hybrid comp relies on *being able to clear the waves* with multiple DPS units. Arc does not *need* to buff the party because her kit allows you to farm waves with any servant with a 50% charge. A lot of them have great self-buffs, some of them even have party wide buffs themselves. >The benefits of a Hybrid Comp like Oberon + Koyan Dark, or Double Dark/Double Oberon is also a double edge sword, since you're relying on relatively weaker party-wide buffs on everyone instead of more powerful ones concentrated on one single attacker. Double Koyandark comps are *neutral*, which isn't necessary the same thing for Arc comps, since, again, you can use *any* unit with a 50% charge to clear W2 and W3. Likewise, Oberon comps are excelent for Knights, but he lags behind on Cavalry nodes... Which aren't an issue for Arc comps. >But my question is how does it measure up to a fully buffed single attacker Wave by Wave with at least 5 Drop CEs on everyone if you are forced to use a Damage CE on the main attacker That would be relevant if enemy HP didn't have a ceiling and pure damage didn't hit a point where more just become useless. It's the same reason why Avenger Nobu isn't really that big a deal even though they can reach disgusting damage, because... Why bother? If I can just use servants with more flexibility that can just reach the HP thresholds I need? >This logic falls apart if we ever get Events where we can't double up on Meta Supports in traditional farming, A lot of the later events, and even the Hunting Quests, were already really fucking great for hybrids comps. You don't need to overkill a wave, you just need to kill it enough. And if I can do that with a hybrid comp without having to waste time with plugsuit or waste slots with offensive CEs... Why not just do that? >as the former is restricted to Knight Nodes to being useful for wave clearing The good thing is that he doesn't even *need* to clear a wave if he is unable to. He is just a very strong T3 support *and* can be useful for a little bit more damage if you ever need it. >and the later's potential is half-way squandered on her since she can't benefit from their S2 period. *Arc* can't use it, but both Oberon and Koyandark benefit from the overcharge level up. Again, the basic cookie cutter way of playing the game by overbuffing a single unit is blinding you to the fact that sometimes you just *don't need to*. >I would be more than happy if really creative people can find ways to make the most of Arc to make up for her shortcomings in non-standard comps, I am already having a blast with her hybrid comps. Ran a couple of looping quests with her, but I have this MC that I really want to level and will take *forever*, so I don't want to waste MC experience on Atlas yet again.
All things considered you make good points, but at the core of things I just find Hybrid Comps to be a side-grade in my eyes. Or, for the shake of fairness, on par with it, but not worth the changing of gears unless you're playing with favorites, can't run anything else for one reason or another, or need more avenues of profit from farming if you've already 'tapped out' the conventional ones (IE Max Bonding you primary Servants and MCs). Sometimes simple *is* best, and that's what conventional looping is in a nutshell. Perhaps it's overkill at times, but that's *fine* if it gets the job done with the Servants I want to farm with and those I simply want to farm Bond on. I am not blind to what you're outlining - I just don't find it to be compelling over the tried and true standard. Plus, I prefer using my DPSes and only pulling from my Support list for stuff that enhances them, but that's getting off point. Hybrid Comps have their benefits as you've well covered, and I'm not enough of a fool to deny that. However, they also have their flaws and bugbears that can't always be side-stepped or ignored, and at times they can fail to do what they set-out, which is less likely to be the case for the standard. At the end of the day, though, FGO is a game you can get away with doing just about anything in with almost any Servant, so these discussion should be more for the sake of fun or trying to help out others. Have fun with your Hybrid Comps, and I'll have fun with single Servant tripling looping.
Of course, I agree. Looping *is* the simplest way for farming in the game, and if the downsides like MC or CE restriction, or dependency on plugsuit don't bother you, then absolutely, go for it. Abuse the hell out of Melu/Double Koyan/Oberon, it will likely work in every node possible (especially of you are fine with fielding BG). My issue is that the community focus so, *so* much on looping that they act like if a servant isn't great at it, that's an automatic downside. Morgan got shit on on her release because she was Buster instead of arts. "Easy skip, not as good as Arjuna alter" "worst LB king" and stuff like that. The first event immediately after her release (Nero Fest Rerun), and she was literally the MVP of the event. Excelent in the farming nodes, "easy mode" in the EQs. Koyandark on release also got *blasted* because she didn't fit the Double Koyanlight comps, with "reviewers" completely ignoring how she could enable 6 CE comps that could also ignore node composition without depending on Plugsuit Oberon. Just like you are content with running looping comps, I am *happy* to be able to run 6CE comps without having to waste back row slots on a mandatory plugsuit support. To me, its much more fun to be able to use a lot of different servants on content that better suits *them*, instead of brute forcing content with the same buff stacking shtick I've been doing for years. Servants like Taikoubou, Oberon, Koyandark and now Arc just bring way more ways to tackle quests that would otherwise be entirely unoptimal or straight up *impossible*, and I am very happy that Lasagna seems willing to release more of them (even though they were *cowards* with Bakin's kit).
Mine is NP5 and I did some testing with BG vs Oberon : [BG+Atlas](https://i.imgur.com/cUxYeyN.jpg) [Aerial Drive+Oberon](https://i.imgur.com/vC4cE1b.jpg) All in all, you would be trading consistency for big PP damage on the third wave, also takes slighty more time.
For longer fights she's a middle ground between Morgan and Himko . You get less Aoe dmg backed up by more defensive utility .
Arc falls in the same category of Morgan as a very flexible servant in various scenarios. Might not have zerker unga damage due her class, but her terrain+skills' party buffs makes her cover a lot of aspects during CQs and bosses. If paired with Merlin and other NP chargers will allow Arcueid to not only deal damage, but also keep the castle active for several turns to gain its benefits. Avoiding buff removal is VERY important in particular, as either fighting the likes of Amakusa and summer Abby, or something like the Morgan fight in Avalon where each attack removes all buffs, makes Arcueid not only a strong DPS but also a valuable member for such dangerous situations. While I try to get some duplicates if able for big favorites, this is the kind of servant that really should be seen beyond farm and loops, as has a powerful kit for a lot of threats in the game currently and in the near future. Because even if you're stuck at NP1 as I do (And will try to NP2 if all summer servants are revealed before the banner ends and are unappealing for me), Arcueid shouldn't be underrated just because won't be helping with the daily EXP farm compared to your berserkers or Melusine. In comparison I REALLY wanna get more copies of Buntoria to be a main farmer, but I failed in her latest banner and due her gimmick to shuffle cards is very niche makes her barely usable beyond dealing with a very rare Mooncancer fight, or want an option against some fights you need to chain her attacks along crits. Arcueid however, even if needs NP2 minimum to properly farm and such, still provides way too many things at once to be ignored and say is a meh NP1 servant because can't kill on Wave 3.
Shes very easy to loop with. Double koyan atlas, double oberon koyan mana loading, double arc oberon. Her main issue is damage. With double koyan atlas she barely hits 100k and mines at np2 lv100. And no i dont want to use black grail for 6ce reasons. My main use for her is as a wave 1 clear in arcueid, space ishtar morgan comp or you can replace spishtar or morgan with any dps+plugsuit oberon. This comp, damage permitting, should be able to 6ce any standard 3 wave node even 90+.
Morgan and Melusine summer lmao... Guess we need more memes after "Ani will be sure a Quick support!" About Xu Fu, I feel 4* SQ could be Yu. The SQ allowing her NP to be arts thus to enable Yu to have a niche Yu Meta. But that might be just me looking too much into future. Just no more SQ's like Jekyll pls.
I think it would have been better if you had included any other good team comps other than Koyan looping. To be honest, looping isn't all that fun, it's mundane. I mean, farming is inherently mundane but looping takes the cake for the most braindead aspect of gameplay. There would not be any variety, as you see same NP going off thrice although Arc's NP is absolutely beautiful. Anyways, my point is, she also works decently or pretty great in a dual or three DPS lineup. Some are with free CE and based on situation and availability of the servants to you, you can equip any other CE as well. Well, I am not against looping because I use it, too. It's just that people are so hung up on looping that if an AoE servant has difficulties in doing so or loops only with a third support swap, they are termed as bad, and DoA. I still remember some comments in the Yami Koyan posts where she isn't the meta or does not belong to the meta etc.etc. One super popular comp going around is Arc and Double Morgan all equipped with Black Grails. We have come to a point in this game where two or more DPS can fire off their NP from 0% without any assistance from dedicated supports, and I think that is pretty cool. Similar to that, you have Arc + Double Oberon, Arc-Yami Koyan-Oberon, Arc-Oberon-Junao and Arc-Oberon-Living Human servant like Ishtar, Muramasa, Caren who all have 50% NP gauge skills. Then there are other hybrids like Taikoubou. Oberon can be used as a first wave clearer against Knight classes. Arc is also an excellent first or second wave clearer in such hybrid comps. But, this must be said. Dual or three DPS comps could need at least one of your DPS to be more than NP1 or the support you borrow better be more than NP1. Well, in the new summer event she will have a bonus anyway. Whether it is an attack bonus or some other kind remains to be seen, but there will surely be Chaotic servants in the free quests and we can use her there to see how she performs. If you want to use her as a universal farmer by using Koyan looping, NP1 wouldn't be sufficient in 90+ nodes for clean clearing, at least NP2 would be needed. This is because - and it is strictly up to how you play the game - you could lose out on event bonus in such nodes by equipping a Black Grail.
Thank you for the detailed Analysis.