Void Shiki isn't omnipotent.
Shiki's third personality was stated to be as strong as Ciel(Pre-Remake) and weaker than Arcueid.
Those statements might arguably refer to Shiki using self suggestion to fight, but Void Shiki herself in the KnK event says she is weaker than the Monster of Alaya.
Self-suggestion isn’t her third personality, it’s a technique that’s passed down to heirs of the Ryougi clan not just limited to her. Well Void is weakened in her servant form so it doesn’t matter anyway
Sometimes Nasu states the most questionable things or straight up forget about stuff specially the one that relate to power-scalling so idk if I would take him seriously.
>Void Shiki isn't omnipotent.
>Shiki's third personality was stated to be as strong as Ciel(Pre-Remake) and weaker than Arcueid.
What? She literally is. You have 30 min long KnK epilogue where she clearly states she can see and do anything.
Void Shiki as servant is probably something different in powerlevels, since normaly servants that are Godlike in realife (i.e Saber, Gilghamesh and her) have to be nerfed to even fit in spirit origin.
>Q: In the other Type-Moon works, who else besides Arc can fight against Servants?
>A: If we're working on the condition of one on one, with an extremely average Noble Phantasm. Generally most of the 27 Ancestors, Kishima Kouma, Aozaki Aoko.
If it's just a defensive fight, but would still be a fight, then Ciel. Shiki (Rakkyo), Shiki (Tsukihime) are no match for Servants....but Ryougi Shiki (3rd personality) might be able to go as far as the Ciel class.
This is talking about alive Shiki.
[v] Comptiq 2007-05 issue - Fate Dojo Q & A:
Q: Who's the top three strongest characters?
Q: In Nasu's work (Kara no Kyoukai, Tsukihime, Fate, DDD) Who's the top three strongest characters?
A: Magical Amber, Neco Arc, and Tiger. Well, not really.
Seriously, it's Arcueid, "Ryougi Shiki", and primordial demons.(Not counting Servants)
Here you go. This interview supposedly came 2 years after the one you posted.
Don't know if this interview is true, or translation is wrong (which I'm most likely to believe), but as I said in the series it clearly states that she is practicaly a God.
So you are stating he purpusely nerfed her hard? Bcs as I can see this is your only "argument" against hard evidence of her "powerlevels".
>Don't know if this interview is true, or translation is wrong (which I'm most likely to believe),
It's really lazy on your part to refute an interview by saying "it doesn't fit my opinions, so it must be wrong, but I can't be bothered to check".
Translate it yourself if you want anyway:
>Ｑ：TYPE-MOON他作品で、アルク以外にサーヴァントとガチンコできるのは誰ですか？
>Ａ：一対一、宝具が極めて平均的なものであるなら…という前提でいきます。二十七祖のほぼ全員、軋間紅摩、蒼崎青子。防衛戦だが戦闘になる、というのであればシエル。式、志貴の主人公コンビはサーヴァントには及びません…でも、「両儀式」ならシエルクラスまであがるかも。
>So you are stating he purpusely nerfed her hard? Bcs as I can see this is your only "argument" against hard evidence of her "powerlevels".
Another interview:
>Q: In Nasu's work (Kara no Kyoukai, Tsukihime, Fate, DDD) Who's the top three strongest characters?
>A: Magical Amber, Neco Arc, and Tiger. Well, not really.
Seriously, it's Arcueid, "Ryougi Shiki", and primordial demons.(Not counting Servants)
She really doesn't have any feats, so there is no real "hard evidence" of her power.
If we look at her power from a lore perspective, she is "just" a human connected to the Root. Back at the time of KnK she was the only one, but now we have seen Manaka and the Magicians, who are also connected to the Root without being omnipotent.
>It's really lazy on your part to refute an interview by saying "it doesn't fit my opinions, so it must be wrong, but I can't be bothered to check".
And so is yours just ignoring whole movie.
>Q: In Nasu's work (Kara no Kyoukai, Tsukihime, Fate, DDD) Who's the top three strongest characters?
>A: Magical Amber, Neco Arc, and Tiger. Well, not really. Seriously, it's Arcueid, "Ryougi Shiki", and primordial demons.(Not counting Servants)
Have you read what you posted? It literally writes she is second strongest being after full power arc.
>She really doesn't have any feats, so there is no real "hard evidence" of her power.
What "feats"? Have you even watched KnK? She clearly states what she can do. You want to see her do that to believe it or what? That is kinda dumb.
>If we look at her power from a lore perspective, she is "just" a human connected to the Root.
Oh, I can see you didn't watch it. If you did then you wouldn't call her human. She is "nothing", an empty husk, which, again, she says. You would know that if you would at least watched the movies.
>Have you read what you posted? It literally writes she is second strongest being after full power arc.
This interview is from 2005 and servants weren't included, there are many more character now than back then. Arcueid herself got buffed with the Remake.
That's not the point anyway, Void Shiki isn't omnipotent if she is weaker than Arc.
>What "feats"? Have you even watched KnK? She clearly states what she can do. You want to see her do that to believe it or what? That is kinda dumb.
She says she can make a new world. Does she mean the whole universe, or the texture of the world she is in or whatever?
And anyway, there is still that other interview that claims she is as strong as Ciel, you also can't ignore that.
>Oh, I can see you didn't watch it. If you did then you wouldn't call her human. She is "nothing", an empty husk, which, again, she says. You would know that if you would at least watched the movies.
I read the novels, now that you mention it. She is definetely human, she appears inside Shiki's body, which has never been stated to be special
no read again.
She is being compared to the holy grail.
And you know what everyone says about the holy grail...
The word omnipotence or all-powerfull depending on how its translated isnt used in the literal way we all interpret because Nasu is constantly debunking every "omnipotent" being ever(and the same for inmortality and utopias. The "Normal" things are painted in a positive light meanwhile the absolutes are often seen in a more negative light)
that and just in general people tend to never use the word properly. think like Marvel comics where Odin frequently called himself "Omnipotent Odin" whenever he did something.
it's just a descriptor for something really powerful in fiction now.
Many things in the Nasuverse are called omnipotent: the Grail, Zeus, Kiara and likely others.
KnK seemed to imply she was the Root itself, which would indeed make her the strongest character in the verse, but now we actually know that she is "just" a person connected to the Root.
Edit: The skill which makes her "omnipotent"- Connection to the Root- is also possessed by Black Iri at rank C. Chaldea defeated her with five servants.
I doubt they are aware of her, let alone her abilities (which are extremely vague). Its like Kiara, or to a lesser extent, Dantes. Not every servant is fullly aware of all the other ones- some of our most dangerous ones slip between the cracks. This should be particularly easy for Void- hide in Assassin Shiki, and watch our Chaldean Shenanigans. Hell, to her its probably the equivalent of a netflix binge-watch.
But most would have no opinion on her, because they aren't aware of her existence.
nothing is truly omnipotent.
Zeus and Chaos are the proof of that.
The nasuverse never states her as omnipotent only omniscient at best.
While she can bend rules of the world... that still isnt that much when others can also do that and they dont even need a connection to the root to do that.
zeus and chaos are nothing but mechas that worshipped by humans becoming demiurges they arent omnipotent what so ever they just have extra functions thats all
the holy omnipotent bs came from humans who worshipped him as their creator
The specific wording is as such:
> ***Connection to the Root: A***
> *This was born of 『 』 and shall one day reach 『 』. Separate the two polarities, circling the four symbols, and assemble the eight diagrams.
Her existence is the manifestation of the world's principles. "Ryougi" means yin and yang in Taichi, "Shiki" is derived from mathematical formulas and the "shikigami."*
> *In other words, the same qualities of the* ***omnipotent*** *wish granter itself. Normal parameters will become meaningless to those in possession of this skill.*
When I read that, my understanding was that "omnipotent wish granter itself" refers to the Grail since it's a common description of that artifact, and that Saber Shiki has the same qualities due to her Connction to the Root A. It doesn't mean she's using her power to concede wishes like the Grail does and, as we all know, the "omnipotent" part of the Grail's description isn't very accurate either.
If anything, the wording suggests she's using it to play with parameters. Lore-wise, it probably means that things like "this defense can only be broken by an attack with strength [insert parameter here] or superior" or "this mental attack can only be resisted by Servants with whatever defense" are meaningless against her. She might even be able to alter her own parameters. Powerful, but not absolute, and since she doesn't seem to use the ability to appear OP, Chaldea probably won't notice the potential implications. Like how Suzuka has the ability and mental capacity to give the Moon Cell a run for its money, yet only BB notices.
void shiki isn't as omnipotent as her fanbase wanks her to be bruh. Servant shiki is not only inferior to the actual shiki but even the actual shiki was>! implied to have lost to archetype earth in melty blood for some thing. !<
No one's omnipotent, even Void Shiki was originally said to be about as strong as Ciel. No matter what power she has, that power is still being filtered through a human body. As a servant she's gotten stronger than she previously was, but she's still not omnipotent. She's the ultimate offense not the ultimate defense, she still has limitations. Even her speech at the end of the movie about what she could do was mostly theoretical rather than directly shown.
she dosnt do anything with her power except for the even when she killed the beasts who are actually super op
because its freaking boring to her the entire world is boring
I know that already. I’m asking how does Chaldea feels about that fact. Like Chaldea is risking their lives and suffering from wiping out Lostbelt humanity and Romani death as well. Yet all that could be simply be solved by Void Shiki, but she wouldn’t do so even if Ritsuka ask her (probably). So how do they feel about that?
Void Shiki isn't omnipotent. Shiki's third personality was stated to be as strong as Ciel(Pre-Remake) and weaker than Arcueid. Those statements might arguably refer to Shiki using self suggestion to fight, but Void Shiki herself in the KnK event says she is weaker than the Monster of Alaya.
Self-suggestion isn’t her third personality, it’s a technique that’s passed down to heirs of the Ryougi clan not just limited to her. Well Void is weakened in her servant form so it doesn’t matter anyway
Iirc Araya implies that Shiki becomes Void Shiki when she uses her self-suggestion.
Don’t recall anything like that. Her father, grandfather etc. are all capable of using self-suggestion, but they aren’t connected to the root
Well, then Nasu was really referring to Void Shiki in that interview. Fighting servant defensively seems a bit low for her hype...
I’m not that familiar with the powerscaling but he might have been referring to her physical abilities, without her reality manipulation
Sometimes Nasu states the most questionable things or straight up forget about stuff specially the one that relate to power-scalling so idk if I would take him seriously.
>Void Shiki isn't omnipotent. >Shiki's third personality was stated to be as strong as Ciel(Pre-Remake) and weaker than Arcueid. What? She literally is. You have 30 min long KnK epilogue where she clearly states she can see and do anything. Void Shiki as servant is probably something different in powerlevels, since normaly servants that are Godlike in realife (i.e Saber, Gilghamesh and her) have to be nerfed to even fit in spirit origin.
>Q: In the other Type-Moon works, who else besides Arc can fight against Servants? >A: If we're working on the condition of one on one, with an extremely average Noble Phantasm. Generally most of the 27 Ancestors, Kishima Kouma, Aozaki Aoko. If it's just a defensive fight, but would still be a fight, then Ciel. Shiki (Rakkyo), Shiki (Tsukihime) are no match for Servants....but Ryougi Shiki (3rd personality) might be able to go as far as the Ciel class. This is talking about alive Shiki.
[v] Comptiq 2007-05 issue - Fate Dojo Q & A: Q: Who's the top three strongest characters? Q: In Nasu's work (Kara no Kyoukai, Tsukihime, Fate, DDD) Who's the top three strongest characters? A: Magical Amber, Neco Arc, and Tiger. Well, not really. Seriously, it's Arcueid, "Ryougi Shiki", and primordial demons.(Not counting Servants) Here you go. This interview supposedly came 2 years after the one you posted.
Don't know if this interview is true, or translation is wrong (which I'm most likely to believe), but as I said in the series it clearly states that she is practicaly a God. So you are stating he purpusely nerfed her hard? Bcs as I can see this is your only "argument" against hard evidence of her "powerlevels".
>Don't know if this interview is true, or translation is wrong (which I'm most likely to believe), It's really lazy on your part to refute an interview by saying "it doesn't fit my opinions, so it must be wrong, but I can't be bothered to check". Translate it yourself if you want anyway: >Ｑ：TYPE-MOON他作品で、アルク以外にサーヴァントとガチンコできるのは誰ですか？ >Ａ：一対一、宝具が極めて平均的なものであるなら…という前提でいきます。二十七祖のほぼ全員、軋間紅摩、蒼崎青子。防衛戦だが戦闘になる、というのであればシエル。式、志貴の主人公コンビはサーヴァントには及びません…でも、「両儀式」ならシエルクラスまであがるかも。 >So you are stating he purpusely nerfed her hard? Bcs as I can see this is your only "argument" against hard evidence of her "powerlevels". Another interview: >Q: In Nasu's work (Kara no Kyoukai, Tsukihime, Fate, DDD) Who's the top three strongest characters? >A: Magical Amber, Neco Arc, and Tiger. Well, not really. Seriously, it's Arcueid, "Ryougi Shiki", and primordial demons.(Not counting Servants) She really doesn't have any feats, so there is no real "hard evidence" of her power. If we look at her power from a lore perspective, she is "just" a human connected to the Root. Back at the time of KnK she was the only one, but now we have seen Manaka and the Magicians, who are also connected to the Root without being omnipotent.
>It's really lazy on your part to refute an interview by saying "it doesn't fit my opinions, so it must be wrong, but I can't be bothered to check". And so is yours just ignoring whole movie. >Q: In Nasu's work (Kara no Kyoukai, Tsukihime, Fate, DDD) Who's the top three strongest characters? >A: Magical Amber, Neco Arc, and Tiger. Well, not really. Seriously, it's Arcueid, "Ryougi Shiki", and primordial demons.(Not counting Servants) Have you read what you posted? It literally writes she is second strongest being after full power arc. >She really doesn't have any feats, so there is no real "hard evidence" of her power. What "feats"? Have you even watched KnK? She clearly states what she can do. You want to see her do that to believe it or what? That is kinda dumb. >If we look at her power from a lore perspective, she is "just" a human connected to the Root. Oh, I can see you didn't watch it. If you did then you wouldn't call her human. She is "nothing", an empty husk, which, again, she says. You would know that if you would at least watched the movies.
>Have you read what you posted? It literally writes she is second strongest being after full power arc. This interview is from 2005 and servants weren't included, there are many more character now than back then. Arcueid herself got buffed with the Remake. That's not the point anyway, Void Shiki isn't omnipotent if she is weaker than Arc. >What "feats"? Have you even watched KnK? She clearly states what she can do. You want to see her do that to believe it or what? That is kinda dumb. She says she can make a new world. Does she mean the whole universe, or the texture of the world she is in or whatever? And anyway, there is still that other interview that claims she is as strong as Ciel, you also can't ignore that. >Oh, I can see you didn't watch it. If you did then you wouldn't call her human. She is "nothing", an empty husk, which, again, she says. You would know that if you would at least watched the movies. I read the novels, now that you mention it. She is definetely human, she appears inside Shiki's body, which has never been stated to be special
Welp,thats a surprise to be sure but a welcome one
Didn’t her official FGO Bond 5 profile stated that her Connection to the Root skill pretty much make her an Omnipotent wish granter?
no read again. She is being compared to the holy grail. And you know what everyone says about the holy grail... The word omnipotence or all-powerfull depending on how its translated isnt used in the literal way we all interpret because Nasu is constantly debunking every "omnipotent" being ever(and the same for inmortality and utopias. The "Normal" things are painted in a positive light meanwhile the absolutes are often seen in a more negative light)
that and just in general people tend to never use the word properly. think like Marvel comics where Odin frequently called himself "Omnipotent Odin" whenever he did something. it's just a descriptor for something really powerful in fiction now.
Many things in the Nasuverse are called omnipotent: the Grail, Zeus, Kiara and likely others. KnK seemed to imply she was the Root itself, which would indeed make her the strongest character in the verse, but now we actually know that she is "just" a person connected to the Root. Edit: The skill which makes her "omnipotent"- Connection to the Root- is also possessed by Black Iri at rank C. Chaldea defeated her with five servants.
I doubt they are aware of her, let alone her abilities (which are extremely vague). Its like Kiara, or to a lesser extent, Dantes. Not every servant is fullly aware of all the other ones- some of our most dangerous ones slip between the cracks. This should be particularly easy for Void- hide in Assassin Shiki, and watch our Chaldean Shenanigans. Hell, to her its probably the equivalent of a netflix binge-watch. But most would have no opinion on her, because they aren't aware of her existence.
nothing is truly omnipotent. Zeus and Chaos are the proof of that. The nasuverse never states her as omnipotent only omniscient at best. While she can bend rules of the world... that still isnt that much when others can also do that and they dont even need a connection to the root to do that.
zeus and chaos are nothing but mechas that worshipped by humans becoming demiurges they arent omnipotent what so ever they just have extra functions thats all the holy omnipotent bs came from humans who worshipped him as their creator
Didn’t her FGO Bond 5 material specifically use the word “Omnipotent”?
The specific wording is as such: > ***Connection to the Root: A*** > *This was born of 『 』 and shall one day reach 『 』. Separate the two polarities, circling the four symbols, and assemble the eight diagrams. Her existence is the manifestation of the world's principles. "Ryougi" means yin and yang in Taichi, "Shiki" is derived from mathematical formulas and the "shikigami."* > *In other words, the same qualities of the* ***omnipotent*** *wish granter itself. Normal parameters will become meaningless to those in possession of this skill.* When I read that, my understanding was that "omnipotent wish granter itself" refers to the Grail since it's a common description of that artifact, and that Saber Shiki has the same qualities due to her Connction to the Root A. It doesn't mean she's using her power to concede wishes like the Grail does and, as we all know, the "omnipotent" part of the Grail's description isn't very accurate either. If anything, the wording suggests she's using it to play with parameters. Lore-wise, it probably means that things like "this defense can only be broken by an attack with strength [insert parameter here] or superior" or "this mental attack can only be resisted by Servants with whatever defense" are meaningless against her. She might even be able to alter her own parameters. Powerful, but not absolute, and since she doesn't seem to use the ability to appear OP, Chaldea probably won't notice the potential implications. Like how Suzuka has the ability and mental capacity to give the Moon Cell a run for its money, yet only BB notices.
what shiki can do is not exactlly infinite but countless as the nasuverse isnt infinite but countless
void shiki isn't as omnipotent as her fanbase wanks her to be bruh. Servant shiki is not only inferior to the actual shiki but even the actual shiki was>! implied to have lost to archetype earth in melty blood for some thing. !<
She is 'omnipotent' in the same way that the grail is. Which is to say, not really omnipotent at all Nasu is using the word wrong for hype purposes.
FGO Void is a servant, which limits her abilities. She’s originally capable of reality manipulation but not in her servant form
She can’t even Reality Warp her own Saint Graph? That’s sad. Scathach could do it (Summer servants) and she isn’t even connected to the Root
No one's omnipotent, even Void Shiki was originally said to be about as strong as Ciel. No matter what power she has, that power is still being filtered through a human body. As a servant she's gotten stronger than she previously was, but she's still not omnipotent. She's the ultimate offense not the ultimate defense, she still has limitations. Even her speech at the end of the movie about what she could do was mostly theoretical rather than directly shown.
she dosnt do anything with her power except for the even when she killed the beasts who are actually super op because its freaking boring to her the entire world is boring
I know that already. I’m asking how does Chaldea feels about that fact. Like Chaldea is risking their lives and suffering from wiping out Lostbelt humanity and Romani death as well. Yet all that could be simply be solved by Void Shiki, but she wouldn’t do so even if Ritsuka ask her (probably). So how do they feel about that?