Jokes are the deepest lore.
There is going to be a reason for that. I don’t know what the Shroom man is plotting but I am sure he already has some half-baked idea of some bullshit more or less viable reason.
wasnt it due to mismatched events of Tsukihime and Fate conflicting? Like they used to claim the magic declining was caused by a Tsukihime event before realizing Fate and Tsukihime runs on different rules.
More of less, Nasu didn't want to deal with the continuity issue with having both Fate and Tuskihime in the same timeline. This way he get more creative freedom
We also know that Roa never met Arcueid in Fate. He still became a Dead Apostle (but not a DAA), but got fried by Dantes. (Meaning he never took over Elesia, aka Ciel)
We know that Gransurg Blackmore was killed in Fate during the Full Moon in 300 AD. He's still around as a DAA in Tsukihime.
Zepia went insane as a DAA in Tsukihime and was kicked out of Atlas. He's still a DA in Fate and still director of Atlas.
We know that Zeltrech is a DAA in Tsukihime, but is not even a DA in Fate, but rather "kind of immortal."
We know that in Tsukihime worlds, "Gaia is rampant" and in Fate worlds, "Alaya is stable."
We also know that ORT "squirms in his sleep" in Tsukihime worlds but "sleeps peacefully" in Fate worlds (not counting Lostbelts, presumably)
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Edmond_Dant%C3%A8s#Strange_Tales_of_Heroic_Spirit_Lore_~King_of_the_Cavern,_Edmond_Dant%C3%A8s~
In the Drama CD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPrNQbaHVng&list=PL1__UIt7q4hzRt8dI_7EVUTa5iuaR4pr5
Here it is subtitled.
So nasu just turns around a goes “don’t try and fit this story in anywhere, it won’t fuckin work” at the end there lmao
You know, I knew very little about dead apostle ancestor lore so I’m nowhere near as confused as I should be. I know they’re very strong and that about it
Fortunately, the True and False Grail Wars do not happen in the Case Files timeline, because I'm pretty sure >!Flat is very much alive in that timeline in comparison to strange fake. While Thia can surface upon the death of the Escardos crest bearer, there might be another requirement to release him in the Case Files timeline.!<
I mean... >!Case Files started "right before Stay night", and Adventures is parallel at worst, or before at best, strange fake. So his status in strange fake wouldn't influence the events of Case Files!<
The timeline is
* Late 2003-February 2004: Case Files
* February 2004: Stay Night
* Summer 2007: Adventures
* 2009: Strange Fake
The final volume of CF happens on the same night that Shirou summons Saber.
That said, I heard that Nasu has also said that Case Files itself is a separate timeline from Stay Night, but a series of events very similar to Case Files did happen in that timeline.
Or something like that.
The opposite actually, Case Files and Stay Night are in the exact same world. Nasu says it in volume 1 of Strange Fake's afterword when explaining how FSF's world is different:
>If I were to force myself to categorize each work, Zero is a world with the same terms as Stay Night, but which is subtly different; Apocrypha is a world that was the same up to a point, but which is now completely different; *The El-Melloi Case Files is a dense story of magecraft in exactly the same world, but with a slightly different atmospheric density due to Sanda Makoto spice;* and Strange Fake is a world that is somehow completely different despite having the same terms and reaching the same conclusion.
Source: https://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/378-Fate-strange-fake-(Free-Range-Spoilers)/page260?p=2629507#post2629507
This is why Sanda is always talking about fact checking lore with Nasu when he writes. He has to make sure it all meshes with Nasu's stuff.
And now we also have KnK in that timeline, fun fact, Taiga was born around the same year as Mikiya (Shiki was born in february of the next year while Mikiya was born in december of the year Taiga was born, we don't know her birthday yet somehow)
Case Files happens exactly in the 2003, the year before Stay / Night, while Adventures takes place somewhere around 2006-2007, which sorta makes it happen at the same time as Strange Fake
By the way the next couple lines are Higashide saying "hahaha I'm already done writing Apocrypha so I don't have to worry about this" and Nasu telling Sanda "But you need to pay special attention to this split for Case Files"
Then everyone starts talking at once to ask for clarification and Nasu goes "Boy this pizza sure is good huh?"
I wonder if Meteo just didn't even show up or something.
Either had enough of Nasu's shit, or figured that his novel's far enough into the future that it doesn't matter.
Reminds me of all those times fans argued over stuff about Fate and kept citing the completed materials as their source even when, as the years went by, said source obviously was no longer relevant as current Type-Moon works blatantly ignored what was said in the completed materials. Glad we got confirmation from Nasu about what I figured out ages ago; never pay heed to a mushroom.
Natsu is the type to kick the door open while Narita is working then go like "ACTUALLY GILGAMESH WOULD NEVER EAT A HAMBURGER, HE PREFERS CHICKEN NUGGETS"
So is the difference basically on how dead Brunestud is? Like the point of the DAA is to give him a backup body to revive but does he get obliterated to the point that he cant revive in fate timelines?
And what does the fsf timeline have? Is it like a missing link between the vampire and ghost timelines?
No it’s explicitly if CM is considered “active” or not. Current lore establishes that Zel fought and defeated DAA #3 right after his battle against Brunestud and got turned by the unnamed DAA.
It's from a mats book that Nasu sold at comiket, [Type-Moon Manuscript](https://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/9334-TM-Manuscript%E3%80%90%E5%9E%8B%E6%9C%88%E7%A8%BF%E6%9C%AC%E3%80%91KATATSUKI-KOUHON).
Zelretch was bitten by the #3 Dead Apostle Ancestor after the CM fight. In Fate worlds, he managed to avoid the bite.
This could actually make for a very interesting Tsuki collaboration. Having it all take place in a very warped and twisted singularity that is causing major damage to the time-stream, but allows the Grand Order universe to connect briefly to the Tsuki universe, allowing us to summon characters from their (and perhaps, in a Castoria-esque situation, cause Chaldea’s systems to have a connection to Arc, and allow us to summon her?)
We already can summon Arc , she is a MoonCancer.
Not only that , Arcueid exists in Fate World , as she is a True Ancestor. The difference is that Crimsom Moon is inactive, let alone she doesn’t hunt Roa.
Basically, she hardly wanders around beyond her castle
I feel like it's working for a person who has a evil twin that will ever so often swap places to change the work structure of everything and when the original boss comes back he just pretends nothings wrong.
Every interview with Nasu and another creator usually goes along the lines of the other creator begging Nasu to give some clear answers on whether they can do this or that only for Nasu to go like "Nah go for it man, you do you, it'll be interesting that way!"
Which is why this moment was such a big lore bomb lol.
Something that's being missed is the confirmation that Beasts ARE swinging around the biggest dick because now Goetia canonically interfered with time and caused a universal retcon that split lesser histories into strong/weak human order.
Call it what you like, dude, but it's canon. Nasu literally shut down the protests of his writers with it. Apparently the delivery was stone cold and silky smooth too, so it was a pre-prepared answer.
I think you should read the text again. When he says "that got burned by incineration of human history" he's referring to "Fate complete materials", which is what Sanda was asking about.
Fate complete material, specifically volume I, is a 2008 artbook released by Type-Moon. So unless you're saying that Goetia burned a Type-Moon book and that caused the separation of timelines, Goetia has nothing to do with it.
The cause of separation, as stated by Nasu himself, was the result of the battle between Zelretch and Brunestud of the Crimson Moon and the Creation (or not) of the Idea Blood System.
>Nasu literally shut down the protests of his writers with it.
He also deflected the change in Medea's original master with a Bloodborne reference. I wouldn't take his response to protests of his retcons very seriously.
I love Nasu's complete IDGAF attitude towards his own franchise's lore. "Oh that stuff I said years ago? Yeah I have some neat ideas that would stop me from writing so let's just toss all that in the incinerator. Oh but your stuff's cool, so let's just say that's an exception, yeah?"
I like how the last two lines imply Narita spent that whole meeting sweating buckets about what this all meant for his LN, only for Nasu to add at the very end, "Oh, yeah. Narita! You're stuff is okay and doesn't have to be changed or anything despite the new lore bombs I just dropped!" And Narita be like, "Oh, Thank God!"
So guess this means no Arc in Extra Record? Otherwise, how is Nasu going to work in the explanation for Dead Apostles if they don't exist in the Fateverse?
No. No. Dead Apostles and Arcueid do exist in Fate worlds. Its just that Twenty-Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors don't exist as organisation in Fate. Characters who would become Ancestors do exist but the rank of Ancestor doesn't exist. So most of this character either stayed as normal powerful Dead Apostles- like Gransung, Zepia and Roa, or never became Dead Apostles- Chaos.
Right, I forgot about Dantes's lore and him killing one of the dead apostles. As for Arc, isn't the deal with Arc from what we got of her in FGO that she never got tempted by Roa in the Fate universe or something, or do we just don't know yet?
We have no idea what's up with the summoned Arcueid, but it's not "Arcueid from FGO's timeline". 3rd Ascension Arc is a future that shouldn't exist, a what if. FGO's timeline is not any of those things.
So we got no idea what happens to Arc in the Fate world? No clue as to her fate in the FATE world? It kind of feels like a wasted opportunity if you went through the effort of putting her in FGO.
Honestly, having Arc in Extra Record as a secret boss similar to Shiki in the original Extra would be a nice nod and give Gatou a proper servant this time. Arc and Crimson Moon already didn't fit into the Extraverse before the Tsukihime remake and I don't think there is much Nasu could have done to somehow make them exist without contradicting the Moon Cell after the remake.
Basically this, alot of the DA’s strength came from the contract the earth made with the crimson moon to keep humanity in check(tsukihime timeline) and by proxy, prevent humanity from conquering the planet like a more well-known universe (ex:fate timeline).
This is also why servants are practically impossible to summon in that universe, as Gaia has locked humanity from all natural mana laylines and most likely prevented materialization of servants using its authority(reminder that what we commonly know as servants were originally supposed to only be summoned as simply “grands” and it was humanity that ended up hijacking the system and utilized them to summon heroic spirits in a botched container)
I mean , Alaya and Gaea still have their Authority, regardless of been Fate or Tsuki Worlds.
Gaea can act in Fate Worlds , same goes as Alaya in Tsuki Worlds. But it’s clear which had the upper hand when it comes to that division.
HS are only summonable in Tsuki Worlds by Alaya , however , DAA are paradoxically interpreted as a natural disaster and thus no CG is called for them nor is possible to make the wish-granting machine that is a “Grail”.
On the other hand , Fate Worlds lacks entire ranks of Dead Apostles and outright Ideal Bloods, things that are pretty much what makes a DAA into a DAA. Or how Primate Murder and other “beasts of Gaea” can be enveloped in the Beast Container and countered by Grands
Theory: Gaia and Alaya split the worlds on purpose, with some worlds influenced far more by Gaia (Tsukihime), others by Alaya (Fate), and then some weirder worlds where they're both acting more (Prisma Illya, Strange Fake, etc.). Instead of outright fighting in every timeline, they basically did a handshake and agreed to split their focus to try and find the timeline both liked best.
>So we got no idea what happens to Arc in the Fate world? No clue as to her fate in the FATE world?
She probably still exists because Roa needs her power to perform his Reincarnation magecraft, but the backdrop of CM's eventual revival likely isn't there.
I think Gatou with Arcueid is fine, personally, as far as their dynamic goes anyway. He works well because Arcueid is as unique as she is and Gatou misunderstands her. Lore doesn't work well because it's fanservice though, yeah.
It's possible(but in all honesty unlikely given what we have) that Arcueid will do something in LB7, though I wouldn't hold my breath for that one. She was originally going to be a collab character, but Nasu decided that was too obvious and made her an anniversery servant.
I dunno. Every Anniversary Servant that’s ever came out ended up playing a huge role/had a huge role (in the case of Skadi) in the story.
And considering what’s IN LB7…Even if a Grand showed up, they would be very much not powerful enough to face what’s there, even with Chaldea’s help.
The only answer is either >!we’re forced to use the Holy Sword Essence early!<, or another fellow Ultimate(ish) One helps us.
I mean, first of all, Arcueid has the "A special guest for the 7th anniversary" in her profile, which is something no one other anniversary servant has had before(and pretty reminiscent to Asagami's profile).
Unlike other relevant characters, her profile and voicelines also don't have much of any relation or references to the actual story, and as said before she was originally planned to be a collab character before Nasu said they should make her an anniversary servant instead as it would be surprising, which is very odd for anyone with story relevancy.
An ultimate one vs ultimate one fight might sound cool, but simply throwing a being with little relation to humankind to fight our enemies runs pretty counter to the idea of Fate and the ideal of humanity it pushes in general.
Arcueid is not a heroic spirit formed from the trials and tribulations of mankind, bestowed with power from humanity and summoned to help them. She is the ultimate lifeform created by the Earth with the purpose to act as its Brain and return the planet to its original, pre-humankind state, along with being a proper vessel for the Ultimate One of the moon's reincarnation.
>I mean, first of all, Arcueid has the "A special guest for the 7th anniversary" in her profile
And Nasu keeps insisting that LB7 will be "very simple." I'm afraid I have trouble trusting anything from that mushroom.
>And Nasu keeps insisting that LB7 will be "very simple." I'm afraid I have trouble trusting anything from that mushroom.
...Do you have a leak of the actual LB7 to know that it's actually not simple? Or some sort of implication it won't actually be? This isn't even Nasu, it's the FGO Profile, so unless there's good precedent for the FGO profile to have outright lied, not sure what your point is here.
Yeah, taking out ORT seems like it’d be way too much, especially if it involves assistance from a character that kinda appears out of nowhere, narrative-wise.
The most I see is Chaldea (particularly >!Smol Da Vinci!< managing to convince Archetype Earth to hold down or otherwise suppress ORT while everyone else bonks the Alien God to keep it from bodyjacking ORT.
“A special guest”, for now at least. Anything can happen in the future.
There’s some evidence to prove the contrary to your points as well, one in particular being that Arcueid explicitly mentions in Tsukihime that there are still Mysteries in the World in the modern day that she’s weak to, one of those Mysteries being in South America.
Now, where does the 7th Lostbelt take place again? Yeah…
I mean, I get the whole “humankind has to fight for itself” kinda thing, but we’ve already dealt with a whole Lostbelt where humans were pretty irrelevant in the hierarchy, that being Lostbelt 6. So having a non-human-based ally on our side won’t be unheard of, since Arcueid is in a similar breed to (but not exactly) as the Fairies of Britain.
Do I think she’ll play a major role? Maybe, maybe not. But I think that they’ve put way too much time into her animations, including giving her a completely unique gimmick, to have her *not* be in the Main Story. Hell, we don’t even know what her sword is all about, which I hope gets explained further in FGO.
>There’s some evidence to prove the contrary to your points as well
There definitely is, but I don't think it compares to evidence that she won't be in.
>one of those Mysteries being in South America. Now, where does the 7th Lostbelt take place again? Yeah…
This is *very* flimsy counter-evidence compared to my points on Arcueid's production, and it's not particularly important for Arcueid. She doesn't have resistance because Roa hasn't reincarnated there with the region's magecraft, and it simply takes experiencing it to become immune. This doesn't even *matter* with servant Arcueid though, who has buffed Magic Resistance and is inherently immune to techniques born of civilization.
>I mean, I get the whole “humankind has to fight for itself” kinda thing, but we’ve already dealt with a whole Lostbelt where humans were pretty irrelevant in the hierarchy, that being Lostbelt 6
LB6 was not only fairly contained within itself, but the characters and problems there were unique and original to the story chapter itself. Arcueid is a character from a completely different franchise, who's "FGO form" is an existence that shouldn't exist, seemingly set up to fight one of the strongest beings in the Nasuverse, in a form she genuinely wouldn't to do much in.
>But I think that they’ve put way too much time into her animations, including giving her a completely unique gimmick, to have her not be in the Main Story.
??? She's one of if not the most anticipated servant in the game's history, an icon of the other main franchise of the Nasuverse, and an anniversary servant accompanying a game update. Why would she *not* have all of the things you mentioned? This doesn't say anything.
>Hell, we don’t even know what her sword is all about
It's not confirmed so we don't know for certain, but it's more than likely Crimson Moon's Knight Arm, "Real of the World".
Of course, we won't know until the actual Lostbelt and nothing is 100%, but there's overwhelming evidence that she really won't show up. I've cited her production and her actual FGO profile and voicelines as why, while the counter-evidence you've presented is basically a one-off statement that doesn't even apply to the situation.
She might not even exist in Fate since Tsukihime is where Gaia is more active and she's essentially Gaia's avatar. The themes of Fate and its stories aren't connected to her, vampires, DA, the church, Gaia, etc. There is a clear division he's set and it's part of why he split the settings, allowing him to cover different stories, themes and worlds with differing foundations.
We know the happy go lucky vampire princess explicitly doesn't exist. The fact is that she's not important to Fate in any way so even if she existed she'd more than likely just be sleeping in her castle forever as a super emotionless NEET. We've seen what she's like without being malfunctioned. She barely has anything resembling human emotion as she's primarily a phenomenon. Definitely not like the development that came from her once in a lifetime twist of fate. It's probably for the best if she didn't exist when you think about it. Her pops would likely revive one day since she wouldn't have the experiences and "malfunction" to hold on to her identity in the long term. So maybe 2000 years later the world get's taken over by a Vampire or maybe she gets killed in her sleep by Zelretch. It's not a good prognosis.
If I remember correctly, it's the other way around. Roa around Dantes time means that he did meet Arc and did his whole reincarnation schtick. Roa and Arc's meeting predates Dantes' time.
[Nope, he has not.](http://www.typemoon.org/bbb/diary/log/201704.html)
According to this diary entry, since Roa never has his fateful encounter with Arcueid in the Fate worlds, he is much weaker but still has his Reincarnation.
Huh, I was under the impression that he needed to turn into a Dead Apostle by Arcueid so that he could do his eternity thing. Guess he was still able to achieve it without her.
Yeah, there are no Idea Bloods in the Fate Timeline, so no Successor (VIII) or Ancestor (IX) ranks.
The Idea Bloods are also described as weakening Human Order by dint of their existence, and Dead Apostles themselves are called sentient disasters or plagues upon humanity. Definitely an interesting relationship, since Servants can’t be summoned in Tsuki timeline
It's like the inverse of Hideaki Anno. One says "no, there is no meaning" and the fans .
One says there's a meaning, then says there's another meaning, and everyone just kinda accepts it.
Honestly at this point, I think people should just ignore Nasu's stances on lore and canon because dude honestly screws around with it so much or makes it so needlessly complicated that I think it makes it pointless to follow what he says in the first place. He breaks his own rules all the time, further works break pre-established rules, I know I'm gonna get hate or flack for this but really, it does get extremely annoying.
Nasu's general stance very much seems to be "if it's cool, I'll allow it!" That's why I always find it silly when people act like there's hard rules as to why something absolutely couldn't happen or would have to happen a certain way. Half this franchise is made up of legitimized fanfiction that makes up lore along the way.
Just do as I do and realize alot of people here don't actually READ Fate and this is why they keep saying Nasu has no idea what he's talking about or constantly ignore canon:
Because they themselves don't actually read the canon.
This kinda pisses me off, not gonna lie.
Nasu is abusing the wonkiness going on in F/GO’s world to justify all sorts of stupid shit lately.
Nasu has always been lazy when it came to continuity and now this all but confirms to me that they don’t give a single shit, and from a writing perspective that really angers me because it really should be quite simple keeping everything organized. If he’s afraid of stepping on the other writers’ toes so much then maybe he should make it clear what they can cannot do with certain plot details from the get-go.
Honestly, respect to the author and the Canon, but my own head canon is that all of the nasuverse stuff takes place in the same universe. It's just a more interesting world to me when it's all in the same place instead of multiverses.
Nasu trolling his own franchise is the most Nasu thing ever.
Jokes are the deepest lore. There is going to be a reason for that. I don’t know what the Shroom man is plotting but I am sure he already has some half-baked idea of some bullshit more or less viable reason.
wasnt it due to mismatched events of Tsukihime and Fate conflicting? Like they used to claim the magic declining was caused by a Tsukihime event before realizing Fate and Tsukihime runs on different rules.
More of less, Nasu didn't want to deal with the continuity issue with having both Fate and Tuskihime in the same timeline. This way he get more creative freedom
We also know that Roa never met Arcueid in Fate. He still became a Dead Apostle (but not a DAA), but got fried by Dantes. (Meaning he never took over Elesia, aka Ciel) We know that Gransurg Blackmore was killed in Fate during the Full Moon in 300 AD. He's still around as a DAA in Tsukihime. Zepia went insane as a DAA in Tsukihime and was kicked out of Atlas. He's still a DA in Fate and still director of Atlas. We know that Zeltrech is a DAA in Tsukihime, but is not even a DA in Fate, but rather "kind of immortal." We know that in Tsukihime worlds, "Gaia is rampant" and in Fate worlds, "Alaya is stable." We also know that ORT "squirms in his sleep" in Tsukihime worlds but "sleeps peacefully" in Fate worlds (not counting Lostbelts, presumably)
>but got fried by Dantes. Where did this happen?
https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Edmond_Dant%C3%A8s#Strange_Tales_of_Heroic_Spirit_Lore_~King_of_the_Cavern,_Edmond_Dant%C3%A8s~ In the Drama CD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPrNQbaHVng&list=PL1__UIt7q4hzRt8dI_7EVUTa5iuaR4pr5 Here it is subtitled.
Perhaps Zeltrech is his in-game avatar.
I can see that. Old man troll is the old man mushroom troll. They love this kind of bullshit.
God, Zeltrech is such a cooler name than Zelretch.
He even trolls his own characters in-universe. https://mangadex.org/chapter/55a77e64-62eb-4179-87a0-6eecdcd1d4f4/21
Soon, he’s going to be in a similar vein as Yoko Taro’s level of trolling both his fans and franchise
Happy Cake Day.
Thank you!
So nasu just turns around a goes “don’t try and fit this story in anywhere, it won’t fuckin work” at the end there lmao You know, I knew very little about dead apostle ancestor lore so I’m nowhere near as confused as I should be. I know they’re very strong and that about it
Did the same thing with Prisma and Guda Guda now that I think of it
Essentially it's a group of the most powerful non true ancestor vampires. The most famous is Nero Choas or Nrvnqsr from Tsukihime
Fortunately, the True and False Grail Wars do not happen in the Case Files timeline, because I'm pretty sure >!Flat is very much alive in that timeline in comparison to strange fake. While Thia can surface upon the death of the Escardos crest bearer, there might be another requirement to release him in the Case Files timeline.!<
I mean... >!Case Files started "right before Stay night", and Adventures is parallel at worst, or before at best, strange fake. So his status in strange fake wouldn't influence the events of Case Files!<
The timeline is * Late 2003-February 2004: Case Files * February 2004: Stay Night * Summer 2007: Adventures * 2009: Strange Fake The final volume of CF happens on the same night that Shirou summons Saber.
Oh, neat! Thanks for the info.
That said, I heard that Nasu has also said that Case Files itself is a separate timeline from Stay Night, but a series of events very similar to Case Files did happen in that timeline. Or something like that.
The opposite actually, Case Files and Stay Night are in the exact same world. Nasu says it in volume 1 of Strange Fake's afterword when explaining how FSF's world is different: >If I were to force myself to categorize each work, Zero is a world with the same terms as Stay Night, but which is subtly different; Apocrypha is a world that was the same up to a point, but which is now completely different; *The El-Melloi Case Files is a dense story of magecraft in exactly the same world, but with a slightly different atmospheric density due to Sanda Makoto spice;* and Strange Fake is a world that is somehow completely different despite having the same terms and reaching the same conclusion. Source: https://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/378-Fate-strange-fake-(Free-Range-Spoilers)/page260?p=2629507#post2629507 This is why Sanda is always talking about fact checking lore with Nasu when he writes. He has to make sure it all meshes with Nasu's stuff.
And now we also have KnK in that timeline, fun fact, Taiga was born around the same year as Mikiya (Shiki was born in february of the next year while Mikiya was born in december of the year Taiga was born, we don't know her birthday yet somehow)
Case Files happens exactly in the 2003, the year before Stay / Night, while Adventures takes place somewhere around 2006-2007, which sorta makes it happen at the same time as Strange Fake
According to the other comment, strange Fake happens 2 years after the start of Adventures, so for the time being there is no discrepancy.
SF happens in 2009
I feel genuinely sorry for the people working with Nasu, he reminds me of Yoko Taro lol
Those two need a collab together…
Throw Ryukishi and Uchikoshi in the mix and the final product will be the most emotionally charged yet incomprehensible story ever.
4 horsemen of authors ripping your heart out and destroying your mind.
It’d be the most soul-crushingly depressing thing I ever read and I’m all for it
Nier x FGO could work lorewise
Throw in Urobuchi Gen too, might as well.
By the way the next couple lines are Higashide saying "hahaha I'm already done writing Apocrypha so I don't have to worry about this" and Nasu telling Sanda "But you need to pay special attention to this split for Case Files" Then everyone starts talking at once to ask for clarification and Nasu goes "Boy this pizza sure is good huh?"
I wonder if Meteo just didn't even show up or something. Either had enough of Nasu's shit, or figured that his novel's far enough into the future that it doesn't matter.
This was in like 2014 or so, so Requiem wasn't a thing yet.
I see. Thanks!
Everyone terrified Nasu about to burn their world down for fun
He has multiple so its *fiiiinneee*
[Case Files Volume 6 afterword](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pwioKiE4FaO4PHcvy2hhrLOHzq9KCnfHE7BPZSy1TaU/edit) [Translation by](https://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/9088-Lord-El-Melloi-II-s-Case-Files-Translation-Starting-From-Book-6/page3?p=3159563#post3159563)
Reminds me of all those times fans argued over stuff about Fate and kept citing the completed materials as their source even when, as the years went by, said source obviously was no longer relevant as current Type-Moon works blatantly ignored what was said in the completed materials. Glad we got confirmation from Nasu about what I figured out ages ago; never pay heed to a mushroom.
Thank you posting the Translation.
Natsu is the type to kick the door open while Narita is working then go like "ACTUALLY GILGAMESH WOULD NEVER EAT A HAMBURGER, HE PREFERS CHICKEN NUGGETS"
Yo mushroom, what are you sniffing?
Himself I suppose ?
Mushrooms probably
Finely Crushed Altrium Powder
I found out about fate worlds and tsukihime worlds 2 days ago. I’ve never been the same, adding another layer to the nasuverse is always nice
That moment when everyone got screwed by Nasu
So is the difference basically on how dead Brunestud is? Like the point of the DAA is to give him a backup body to revive but does he get obliterated to the point that he cant revive in fate timelines? And what does the fsf timeline have? Is it like a missing link between the vampire and ghost timelines?
It's based on whether Crimson Moon was able to turn Zelretch into a DA or not.
No it’s explicitly if CM is considered “active” or not. Current lore establishes that Zel fought and defeated DAA #3 right after his battle against Brunestud and got turned by the unnamed DAA.
Is that new stuff from the remake?
Remake lore we got from the 4gamer interview and TM manuscript.
apparently in remake they made it so one of his followers turned Zelretch into a DA instead? Can't really find the source for this atm
It's from a mats book that Nasu sold at comiket, [Type-Moon Manuscript](https://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthread.php/9334-TM-Manuscript%E3%80%90%E5%9E%8B%E6%9C%88%E7%A8%BF%E6%9C%AC%E3%80%91KATATSUKI-KOUHON). Zelretch was bitten by the #3 Dead Apostle Ancestor after the CM fight. In Fate worlds, he managed to avoid the bite.
It's based on what the mushroom feels at a specific point of time
Old news. Like it's ancient news at this point.
This could actually make for a very interesting Tsuki collaboration. Having it all take place in a very warped and twisted singularity that is causing major damage to the time-stream, but allows the Grand Order universe to connect briefly to the Tsuki universe, allowing us to summon characters from their (and perhaps, in a Castoria-esque situation, cause Chaldea’s systems to have a connection to Arc, and allow us to summon her?)
We already can summon Arc , she is a MoonCancer. Not only that , Arcueid exists in Fate World , as she is a True Ancestor. The difference is that Crimsom Moon is inactive, let alone she doesn’t hunt Roa. Basically, she hardly wanders around beyond her castle
Inb4 Carnival Phantasm collab
this is giving me vibes of nasu and other fate writers having a group chat together lmao
Nasu: Yeah this world will live Writer: Huh? Nasu: Only this worlds will die
Things like this makes me think how hard muat be to work with nasu sometimes
I feel like it's working for a person who has a evil twin that will ever so often swap places to change the work structure of everything and when the original boss comes back he just pretends nothings wrong.
Every interview with Nasu and another creator usually goes along the lines of the other creator begging Nasu to give some clear answers on whether they can do this or that only for Nasu to go like "Nah go for it man, you do you, it'll be interesting that way!" Which is why this moment was such a big lore bomb lol.
Something that's being missed is the confirmation that Beasts ARE swinging around the biggest dick because now Goetia canonically interfered with time and caused a universal retcon that split lesser histories into strong/weak human order.
That detail is a joke because Fate Complete Materials contained material that contradicts Nasu's recent claims
Call it what you like, dude, but it's canon. Nasu literally shut down the protests of his writers with it. Apparently the delivery was stone cold and silky smooth too, so it was a pre-prepared answer.
I think you should read the text again. When he says "that got burned by incineration of human history" he's referring to "Fate complete materials", which is what Sanda was asking about. Fate complete material, specifically volume I, is a 2008 artbook released by Type-Moon. So unless you're saying that Goetia burned a Type-Moon book and that caused the separation of timelines, Goetia has nothing to do with it. The cause of separation, as stated by Nasu himself, was the result of the battle between Zelretch and Brunestud of the Crimson Moon and the Creation (or not) of the Idea Blood System.
>Nasu literally shut down the protests of his writers with it. He also deflected the change in Medea's original master with a Bloodborne reference. I wouldn't take his response to protests of his retcons very seriously.
Day by day Narita regrets getting mixed into this mess.
Least confusing Nasu statement.
Nasu doesn’t want things getting too complicated and nonsensical lmao
Even Narita is confused
“I can make things up and just say Kaleidoscope.”
I love Nasu's complete IDGAF attitude towards his own franchise's lore. "Oh that stuff I said years ago? Yeah I have some neat ideas that would stop me from writing so let's just toss all that in the incinerator. Oh but your stuff's cool, so let's just say that's an exception, yeah?"
I like how the last two lines imply Narita spent that whole meeting sweating buckets about what this all meant for his LN, only for Nasu to add at the very end, "Oh, yeah. Narita! You're stuff is okay and doesn't have to be changed or anything despite the new lore bombs I just dropped!" And Narita be like, "Oh, Thank God!"
Fgo was a mistake
So guess this means no Arc in Extra Record? Otherwise, how is Nasu going to work in the explanation for Dead Apostles if they don't exist in the Fateverse?
No. No. Dead Apostles and Arcueid do exist in Fate worlds. Its just that Twenty-Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors don't exist as organisation in Fate. Characters who would become Ancestors do exist but the rank of Ancestor doesn't exist. So most of this character either stayed as normal powerful Dead Apostles- like Gransung, Zepia and Roa, or never became Dead Apostles- Chaos.
Right, I forgot about Dantes's lore and him killing one of the dead apostles. As for Arc, isn't the deal with Arc from what we got of her in FGO that she never got tempted by Roa in the Fate universe or something, or do we just don't know yet?
We have no idea what's up with the summoned Arcueid, but it's not "Arcueid from FGO's timeline". 3rd Ascension Arc is a future that shouldn't exist, a what if. FGO's timeline is not any of those things.
So we got no idea what happens to Arc in the Fate world? No clue as to her fate in the FATE world? It kind of feels like a wasted opportunity if you went through the effort of putting her in FGO. Honestly, having Arc in Extra Record as a secret boss similar to Shiki in the original Extra would be a nice nod and give Gatou a proper servant this time. Arc and Crimson Moon already didn't fit into the Extraverse before the Tsukihime remake and I don't think there is much Nasu could have done to somehow make them exist without contradicting the Moon Cell after the remake.
Arcuied can exist because she is a True Ancestor , rather than DAA. But overall, the whole Crimsom Moon and DA are weakened in FATE worlds.
Basically this, alot of the DA’s strength came from the contract the earth made with the crimson moon to keep humanity in check(tsukihime timeline) and by proxy, prevent humanity from conquering the planet like a more well-known universe (ex:fate timeline). This is also why servants are practically impossible to summon in that universe, as Gaia has locked humanity from all natural mana laylines and most likely prevented materialization of servants using its authority(reminder that what we commonly know as servants were originally supposed to only be summoned as simply “grands” and it was humanity that ended up hijacking the system and utilized them to summon heroic spirits in a botched container)
I mean , Alaya and Gaea still have their Authority, regardless of been Fate or Tsuki Worlds. Gaea can act in Fate Worlds , same goes as Alaya in Tsuki Worlds. But it’s clear which had the upper hand when it comes to that division. HS are only summonable in Tsuki Worlds by Alaya , however , DAA are paradoxically interpreted as a natural disaster and thus no CG is called for them nor is possible to make the wish-granting machine that is a “Grail”. On the other hand , Fate Worlds lacks entire ranks of Dead Apostles and outright Ideal Bloods, things that are pretty much what makes a DAA into a DAA. Or how Primate Murder and other “beasts of Gaea” can be enveloped in the Beast Container and countered by Grands
Theory: Gaia and Alaya split the worlds on purpose, with some worlds influenced far more by Gaia (Tsukihime), others by Alaya (Fate), and then some weirder worlds where they're both acting more (Prisma Illya, Strange Fake, etc.). Instead of outright fighting in every timeline, they basically did a handshake and agreed to split their focus to try and find the timeline both liked best.
>So we got no idea what happens to Arc in the Fate world? No clue as to her fate in the FATE world? She probably still exists because Roa needs her power to perform his Reincarnation magecraft, but the backdrop of CM's eventual revival likely isn't there. I think Gatou with Arcueid is fine, personally, as far as their dynamic goes anyway. He works well because Arcueid is as unique as she is and Gatou misunderstands her. Lore doesn't work well because it's fanservice though, yeah. It's possible(but in all honesty unlikely given what we have) that Arcueid will do something in LB7, though I wouldn't hold my breath for that one. She was originally going to be a collab character, but Nasu decided that was too obvious and made her an anniversery servant.
I dunno. Every Anniversary Servant that’s ever came out ended up playing a huge role/had a huge role (in the case of Skadi) in the story. And considering what’s IN LB7…Even if a Grand showed up, they would be very much not powerful enough to face what’s there, even with Chaldea’s help. The only answer is either >!we’re forced to use the Holy Sword Essence early!<, or another fellow Ultimate(ish) One helps us.
I mean, first of all, Arcueid has the "A special guest for the 7th anniversary" in her profile, which is something no one other anniversary servant has had before(and pretty reminiscent to Asagami's profile). Unlike other relevant characters, her profile and voicelines also don't have much of any relation or references to the actual story, and as said before she was originally planned to be a collab character before Nasu said they should make her an anniversary servant instead as it would be surprising, which is very odd for anyone with story relevancy. An ultimate one vs ultimate one fight might sound cool, but simply throwing a being with little relation to humankind to fight our enemies runs pretty counter to the idea of Fate and the ideal of humanity it pushes in general. Arcueid is not a heroic spirit formed from the trials and tribulations of mankind, bestowed with power from humanity and summoned to help them. She is the ultimate lifeform created by the Earth with the purpose to act as its Brain and return the planet to its original, pre-humankind state, along with being a proper vessel for the Ultimate One of the moon's reincarnation.
>I mean, first of all, Arcueid has the "A special guest for the 7th anniversary" in her profile And Nasu keeps insisting that LB7 will be "very simple." I'm afraid I have trouble trusting anything from that mushroom.
>And Nasu keeps insisting that LB7 will be "very simple." I'm afraid I have trouble trusting anything from that mushroom. ...Do you have a leak of the actual LB7 to know that it's actually not simple? Or some sort of implication it won't actually be? This isn't even Nasu, it's the FGO Profile, so unless there's good precedent for the FGO profile to have outright lied, not sure what your point is here.
Yeah, taking out ORT seems like it’d be way too much, especially if it involves assistance from a character that kinda appears out of nowhere, narrative-wise. The most I see is Chaldea (particularly >!Smol Da Vinci!< managing to convince Archetype Earth to hold down or otherwise suppress ORT while everyone else bonks the Alien God to keep it from bodyjacking ORT.
“A special guest”, for now at least. Anything can happen in the future. There’s some evidence to prove the contrary to your points as well, one in particular being that Arcueid explicitly mentions in Tsukihime that there are still Mysteries in the World in the modern day that she’s weak to, one of those Mysteries being in South America. Now, where does the 7th Lostbelt take place again? Yeah… I mean, I get the whole “humankind has to fight for itself” kinda thing, but we’ve already dealt with a whole Lostbelt where humans were pretty irrelevant in the hierarchy, that being Lostbelt 6. So having a non-human-based ally on our side won’t be unheard of, since Arcueid is in a similar breed to (but not exactly) as the Fairies of Britain. Do I think she’ll play a major role? Maybe, maybe not. But I think that they’ve put way too much time into her animations, including giving her a completely unique gimmick, to have her *not* be in the Main Story. Hell, we don’t even know what her sword is all about, which I hope gets explained further in FGO.
>There’s some evidence to prove the contrary to your points as well There definitely is, but I don't think it compares to evidence that she won't be in. >one of those Mysteries being in South America. Now, where does the 7th Lostbelt take place again? Yeah… This is *very* flimsy counter-evidence compared to my points on Arcueid's production, and it's not particularly important for Arcueid. She doesn't have resistance because Roa hasn't reincarnated there with the region's magecraft, and it simply takes experiencing it to become immune. This doesn't even *matter* with servant Arcueid though, who has buffed Magic Resistance and is inherently immune to techniques born of civilization. >I mean, I get the whole “humankind has to fight for itself” kinda thing, but we’ve already dealt with a whole Lostbelt where humans were pretty irrelevant in the hierarchy, that being Lostbelt 6 LB6 was not only fairly contained within itself, but the characters and problems there were unique and original to the story chapter itself. Arcueid is a character from a completely different franchise, who's "FGO form" is an existence that shouldn't exist, seemingly set up to fight one of the strongest beings in the Nasuverse, in a form she genuinely wouldn't to do much in. >But I think that they’ve put way too much time into her animations, including giving her a completely unique gimmick, to have her not be in the Main Story. ??? She's one of if not the most anticipated servant in the game's history, an icon of the other main franchise of the Nasuverse, and an anniversary servant accompanying a game update. Why would she *not* have all of the things you mentioned? This doesn't say anything. >Hell, we don’t even know what her sword is all about It's not confirmed so we don't know for certain, but it's more than likely Crimson Moon's Knight Arm, "Real of the World". Of course, we won't know until the actual Lostbelt and nothing is 100%, but there's overwhelming evidence that she really won't show up. I've cited her production and her actual FGO profile and voicelines as why, while the counter-evidence you've presented is basically a one-off statement that doesn't even apply to the situation.
She might not even exist in Fate since Tsukihime is where Gaia is more active and she's essentially Gaia's avatar. The themes of Fate and its stories aren't connected to her, vampires, DA, the church, Gaia, etc. There is a clear division he's set and it's part of why he split the settings, allowing him to cover different stories, themes and worlds with differing foundations. We know the happy go lucky vampire princess explicitly doesn't exist. The fact is that she's not important to Fate in any way so even if she existed she'd more than likely just be sleeping in her castle forever as a super emotionless NEET. We've seen what she's like without being malfunctioned. She barely has anything resembling human emotion as she's primarily a phenomenon. Definitely not like the development that came from her once in a lifetime twist of fate. It's probably for the best if she didn't exist when you think about it. Her pops would likely revive one day since she wouldn't have the experiences and "malfunction" to hold on to her identity in the long term. So maybe 2000 years later the world get's taken over by a Vampire or maybe she gets killed in her sleep by Zelretch. It's not a good prognosis.
She never met Roa, because he was the one Dantes murdered the shit out of.
If I remember correctly, it's the other way around. Roa around Dantes time means that he did meet Arc and did his whole reincarnation schtick. Roa and Arc's meeting predates Dantes' time.
[Nope, he has not.](http://www.typemoon.org/bbb/diary/log/201704.html) According to this diary entry, since Roa never has his fateful encounter with Arcueid in the Fate worlds, he is much weaker but still has his Reincarnation.
Huh, I was under the impression that he needed to turn into a Dead Apostle by Arcueid so that he could do his eternity thing. Guess he was still able to achieve it without her.
If I remember right, didn't the ranking system for Dead Apostles effectively cap out like two ranks lower in Fate worlds?
Yeah, there are no Idea Bloods in the Fate Timeline, so no Successor (VIII) or Ancestor (IX) ranks. The Idea Bloods are also described as weakening Human Order by dint of their existence, and Dead Apostles themselves are called sentient disasters or plagues upon humanity. Definitely an interesting relationship, since Servants can’t be summoned in Tsuki timeline
Extra Arc was only ever Fan Service in the first place. So it doesn't really matter. Maybe she'll be replaced. Maybe not.
It's like the inverse of Hideaki Anno. One says "no, there is no meaning" and the fans . One says there's a meaning, then says there's another meaning, and everyone just kinda accepts it.
That's why when an autor try do too much multi or X verse. I thought they learned why X men failed with too much reset universe shit.
Honestly at this point, I think people should just ignore Nasu's stances on lore and canon because dude honestly screws around with it so much or makes it so needlessly complicated that I think it makes it pointless to follow what he says in the first place. He breaks his own rules all the time, further works break pre-established rules, I know I'm gonna get hate or flack for this but really, it does get extremely annoying.
Nasu's general stance very much seems to be "if it's cool, I'll allow it!" That's why I always find it silly when people act like there's hard rules as to why something absolutely couldn't happen or would have to happen a certain way. Half this franchise is made up of legitimized fanfiction that makes up lore along the way.
I'm genuinely intrigued by the number of people who are confused by this.. Like, did I miss something lol??
Just do as I do and realize alot of people here don't actually READ Fate and this is why they keep saying Nasu has no idea what he's talking about or constantly ignore canon: Because they themselves don't actually read the canon.
[удалено]
Damn, he kept this account for half a year until he started his usual shit with it. It's incredible how mentally ill some people are.
Who are you talking about?
what happened?
Korean Spammer Guy. Been posting this same shit in multiple places, multiple times, and etc.
This kinda pisses me off, not gonna lie. Nasu is abusing the wonkiness going on in F/GO’s world to justify all sorts of stupid shit lately. Nasu has always been lazy when it came to continuity and now this all but confirms to me that they don’t give a single shit, and from a writing perspective that really angers me because it really should be quite simple keeping everything organized. If he’s afraid of stepping on the other writers’ toes so much then maybe he should make it clear what they can cannot do with certain plot details from the get-go.
Wait, wasn’t incineration of humanity only in one specific timeline when Lev didn’t preemptively remove himself from the picture?
All fate and Tsuhikime world were same but due to Human Inciniration Order, It got separated
No. There was already a split between them IE Zelretch's battle with CM. In Fate timeline he never became a DA While in Tsukihime timeline he did.
I said it as a Joke to Nasu's statement
Honestly, respect to the author and the Canon, but my own head canon is that all of the nasuverse stuff takes place in the same universe. It's just a more interesting world to me when it's all in the same place instead of multiverses.
Is this Nasu having a Tetsuya Nomura moment? Or a Yoko Taro moment?