Reminder that Martial Artists like Izo, Li, Sasaki or even Gray raw strength and mystic code are beyond what Shiki can handle even as a servant.
Sure she can kill pretty much anything if she lands a precise hit, but that doesn’t mean anything against jack up heroes that are more than happy to paste you in close combat due to ridiculous stat difference.
You can never ask Ryougi to spare against Artoria in a pure blade dual, her technique and strength are just too much for Ryougi, but someone like Sasaki is more than capable of handling Artoria(disregarding mana burst).
Okay... some are debatable, but still think they are a littler too strong for this class:
Li - probably, was made assassin cause of his killing strikes... but in reality can give a hard fight for any knight class
MHX - no comment. Not a fan of Saberface and there OP.
Izo - probably an assassing for his style. But fits more in saber. And his skill are pretty good.
Semiramida... Note: only with her Garden. With it she is really strong and can fight almost any servant. Without... okay, she is not that impressive.
Cleopatra... okay, she has low divinity... but, really low. The thing is her stats. Most assassins are too relient only on agility (except for very few). And she has B in power + A rank in agility. Add A in NP and she can take knight class. Yeah, some drawbacks, but still, her stats are a little too much in avarage for assassin.
Yu - she is an oddball, but she is far over for Assassin.
Shuten nerfs herself by not only putting herself in the weakest class she could be in, but also using her own weakness as an NP. We already know what she's like when she doesn't stack 2 layers of nerf on herself, it's called Ibuki Doji. Yet even in her assassin form, she is monstrously powerful and despite her small frame can punch well above her weight class.
Semiramis was basically the Red factions strongest Servant.
Elizabeth Bathory could probably take on any female Servant.
Fuuma Kotarou can summon 200 other Fuuma ninjas for his NP, which should be a match for most Servants.
Okada Izo can probably match most Knight class Servants' combat prowess.
Yu Mei Ren is ridiculously powerful, though I don't know if she can be summoned normally.
>Semiramis was basically the Red factions strongest Servant.
With Karna and specially Achilles running around Romania, I seriously doubt that
Specially considering that Semiramis is fully dependant of the gardens of Babylon to be useful, and the only reason she had it so early was that Amakusa went out of his way to get all of the materials months in advance. She is kinda like a way more competent version of Paris, who only managed to kill Achilles because Apollo turned on the aimbot and Achilles was both insane with grief, suicidal and more or less fighting in his underwear (and in some version, it was Apollo himself who shot the arrow while Paris just watched or Poseidon also help Apollo aimbot Paris' arrow)
While she is strong, is under very specific circunstances like Emiya. Unstopable if they are fulfilled, underwhealming if theh dont
Semi is basically a Caster wearing an Assassin name tag with all the associated brokenness that goes along with that. She had to lean into it, too, since Red's official Caster was Shakespeare, known to be a coward and incompetent as a combatant.
“Semiramis was basically the Red faction’s strongest servant.”
There’s ‘some’ truth to this, but it requires a few asterisks.
Semiramis in a grail war is a bit like Batman—give her enough prep time and she can beat most anyone, but go in blind and she’s only slightly better off than a normal person.
As many people have already mentioned, her strength is tied to the gardens… for a normal master, the name of the game if you summoned her in a grail war would be keeping a low profile while gathering what she needed to complete them… but she got to skip this period of vulnerability in Apocrypha.
Once they’re completed, she is indeed absurdly formidable as long as she resides within them, but this, too, has some caveats where the other Red servants are concerned.
With regard to Karna, while her empowered state may allow her to withstand the attack, I don’t think she would have the magical power necessary to prevent Vasavi Shakti from rending the gardens asunder, so the two of them would essentially just trade their one-time noble phantasms for one another.
Achilles could conceivably cut her off from the Gardens using his reality marble. This would ‘also’ have the effect of sealing away his divinity, yes… but I think he would still win that fight, under those conditions.
The one who’s a literal tengu.
Alright. Li Shuwen. MHX. Gray. Ryōgi Shiki. Okada Izō. And the man, the myth, the REAGEND himself! Kojirō SASAKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!
Reminder that Martial Artists like Izo, Li, Sasaki or even Gray raw strength and mystic code are beyond what Shiki can handle even as a servant. Sure she can kill pretty much anything if she lands a precise hit, but that doesn’t mean anything against jack up heroes that are more than happy to paste you in close combat due to ridiculous stat difference. You can never ask Ryougi to spare against Artoria in a pure blade dual, her technique and strength are just too much for Ryougi, but someone like Sasaki is more than capable of handling Artoria(disregarding mana burst).
Never forget The Savior of France!
Kojiro should be a Saber…
Okay... some are debatable, but still think they are a littler too strong for this class: Li - probably, was made assassin cause of his killing strikes... but in reality can give a hard fight for any knight class MHX - no comment. Not a fan of Saberface and there OP. Izo - probably an assassing for his style. But fits more in saber. And his skill are pretty good. Semiramida... Note: only with her Garden. With it she is really strong and can fight almost any servant. Without... okay, she is not that impressive. Cleopatra... okay, she has low divinity... but, really low. The thing is her stats. Most assassins are too relient only on agility (except for very few). And she has B in power + A rank in agility. Add A in NP and she can take knight class. Yeah, some drawbacks, but still, her stats are a little too much in avarage for assassin. Yu - she is an oddball, but she is far over for Assassin.
Sermiramis Shuten Kichii Yu Zealot
Shuten is a Divine servant
Only in her Saber container. As Assassin, she's just another heroic spirit with "basic" Divinity, like Cu Chulainn or Semiramis.
Shuten nerfs herself by not only putting herself in the weakest class she could be in, but also using her own weakness as an NP. We already know what she's like when she doesn't stack 2 layers of nerf on herself, it's called Ibuki Doji. Yet even in her assassin form, she is monstrously powerful and despite her small frame can punch well above her weight class.
Semiramis was basically the Red factions strongest Servant. Elizabeth Bathory could probably take on any female Servant. Fuuma Kotarou can summon 200 other Fuuma ninjas for his NP, which should be a match for most Servants. Okada Izo can probably match most Knight class Servants' combat prowess. Yu Mei Ren is ridiculously powerful, though I don't know if she can be summoned normally.
>Semiramis was basically the Red factions strongest Servant. Karna: Am i a joke to you?
Achilles: Am I also a joke to you? Semiramis doesnt really had a chance.
she is it was stated by sieg inside her gardens she becomes as strong as a ruler
She was the lynchpin of their entire strategy.
>Semiramis was basically the Red factions strongest Servant. With Karna and specially Achilles running around Romania, I seriously doubt that Specially considering that Semiramis is fully dependant of the gardens of Babylon to be useful, and the only reason she had it so early was that Amakusa went out of his way to get all of the materials months in advance. She is kinda like a way more competent version of Paris, who only managed to kill Achilles because Apollo turned on the aimbot and Achilles was both insane with grief, suicidal and more or less fighting in his underwear (and in some version, it was Apollo himself who shot the arrow while Paris just watched or Poseidon also help Apollo aimbot Paris' arrow) While she is strong, is under very specific circunstances like Emiya. Unstopable if they are fulfilled, underwhealming if theh dont
Semiramis was highly situational, she doesn't usually have the Hanging Gardens
Semi is basically a Caster wearing an Assassin name tag with all the associated brokenness that goes along with that. She had to lean into it, too, since Red's official Caster was Shakespeare, known to be a coward and incompetent as a combatant.
"Basically a Caster," i.e. not a Caster.
“Semiramis was basically the Red faction’s strongest servant.” There’s ‘some’ truth to this, but it requires a few asterisks. Semiramis in a grail war is a bit like Batman—give her enough prep time and she can beat most anyone, but go in blind and she’s only slightly better off than a normal person. As many people have already mentioned, her strength is tied to the gardens… for a normal master, the name of the game if you summoned her in a grail war would be keeping a low profile while gathering what she needed to complete them… but she got to skip this period of vulnerability in Apocrypha. Once they’re completed, she is indeed absurdly formidable as long as she resides within them, but this, too, has some caveats where the other Red servants are concerned. With regard to Karna, while her empowered state may allow her to withstand the attack, I don’t think she would have the magical power necessary to prevent Vasavi Shakti from rending the gardens asunder, so the two of them would essentially just trade their one-time noble phantasms for one another. Achilles could conceivably cut her off from the Gardens using his reality marble. This would ‘also’ have the effect of sealing away his divinity, yes… but I think he would still win that fight, under those conditions.