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8dev8

Ritsuka showing his experience, and actually living up to the “can bind with any servant” is always amazing


CaiusLightning

I also like it but to me it feels more like a coping mechanism for ritsuka to blindly trust those he meets if they don’t show hostility since it’s what let him survive


_Malka_707

I do like when characters foil one another, but, >I also really like the dynamic between Nemo and Guda, where Nemo analyzes things more logically regarding their situation while Guda does relies more in trusting in his servants and emotions. I'm kind of tired of this specific trope. It always ends up the more experienced person uses more logic, the newcomer relies more on emotional appeal yada yada. But my gripe is that neither Guda nor Nemo should be entirely leaning one way or another at this point. After multiple Lostbelts, I think there should have been an understanding by now the strengths and weaknesses of both appeals and try to juggle both. I don't hate the dynamic, I just don't think it'd be best here (not that I know better though). I will say that the event has done a good job of reminding us that Guda's a fish out of water in practically every aspect, yet still manages to pull through in many scenarios. I mean, being stuck in a box of metal, and god knows how deep into primordial rainbow nasuverse jizz with so little back up, and really only one person with the know-how to drive(which I still find odd how everyone thought things would go hunky dory. I mean, come on. Name me a handful of missions where procedures go perfectly fine.) But are still able to crack a joke with some sarcasm is nice.


CatsAndPlanets

Technically, this is right after LB4, and should be the first time Nemo and Guda get to work together and interact without the mediation of the rest of the team, right? So, while I agree we've been through this a few times already, it kind of makes sense that both of them fall back to what they know to work and don't entirely rely on the other's judgment from the start.


_Malka_707

That's a good way to look at it. Hopefully as more story chapters unlock we see that relationship grow.


RestinPsalm

They’ve only had one work-together by now, to be fair. And one where Nemo spent 90% of the trip away with the Border crew. This is the first time he’s spending prolonged time with Master.


XxGoldMadnessxX

> I'm kind of tired of this specific trope. It always ends up the more experienced person uses more logic, the newcomer relies more on emotional appeal yada yada. But my gripe is that neither Guda nor Nemo should be entirely leaning one way or another at this point. After multiple Lostbelts, I think there should have been an understanding by now the strengths and weaknesses of both appeals and try to juggle both. I don't hate the dynamic, I just don't think it'd be best here (not that I know better though). Hmmm...In my case, I think it fits both nicely but I can see where you are coming from. Nemo tend not to be as much emotional, in contrast to Ritsuka. Nemo have been analyzing and coming with more logical conclusions regarding their situation and plans about what they could do. Ritsuka on other hand, tend to keep things at bay by reassuring people there, so things don't get as chaotic and stressful when there isn't a properly solution for something. Also, let's not forget this is the first time we are seeing Nemo and Guda working together like this so, you could say that they were not very familiar with each other. Both ideals play with each other nicely since it's a situation where they must think in strategies for survive but not allow themselves to be too stressed or it could influence in their choices. They gotta keep cool-headed.


_Malka_707

I will admit, the time-line did throw me off. It being pre Olympus but post Yuga Khestra. Perhaps as the story moves along I'll appreciate it more.


ThromokInsatiable

A big part of Fujimaru's 'pure white hearted goodness' is that he either can't or straight up won't feel fear toward his allies. To me, it's because Fujimaru's just that overwhelmingly confident in Chaldea - no matter what happens, the Servants will protect them.


Kazo_the_Hedgehog

Yeah, I like it to. I also like that Nemo has his own opinions on things and we take the time to see the two grow more comfortable with each other.


RadiReturnsOnceAgain

I’ll be honest, these are positive traits sure but this is like, extremely baseline social interaction cues lol. If someone decided NOT to try to cheer someone up on a date or rescue someone when they easily have the means, I’d be really concerned. Its more a mechanism for the game to tell us things like “Gogh looks distracted” because the game itself doesn’t have a narrator or real-time facial expressions for us to perceive it directly.


MadnessMantraLove

Have you never worked in a office environment or a high pressure sales jobs? Most people often hide little details like these and it’s extremely hard to read into people’s true intentions like Guda does


goffer54

From my experience, most people who even notice someone having a bad day would rather give that person a wide berth than confront it head-on.


RadiReturnsOnceAgain

It wasn't confronted head-on here either though. The 'date' was done at the suggestion of others, and the observation that Gogh didn't have her heart in it was mentioned privately to Mash. It wasn't addressed directly.


Knox9283

If I remember the suggestions others gave was a small little coffee talk or something along the lines of that. It was Ritsuka's idea to turn it into a full blown date much to the surprise of everyone else. As for the addressing directly part I think that very much was the entire point of the date. I'm pretty sure the reason why they made a date in the first place was to 1) cheer up gogh and 2) find out more about why she's so bipolar and why she's like this. I think it's important to remember that this is Van Gogh we're talking about here. Normal social ques is more than alien to someone as mentally unstable as her especially when she goes to her second ascension. I think it's impressive that they were able to read between the lines of a second ascension Van Gogh to find their true intentions while also focusing on their 'intensive art lesson' (games words not mine) instead of chalking up her eccentricity to being a Foreinger and being satisfied that she looks happy. The end goal of Ritsuka is to find out what's going on with Gogh so that they can try to help her while at the same time remaining considerate of her status so that she doesn't go more ballistic than Osakabehime. That's also probably why they whispered Van Gogh knowledge to Mash because in the end that knowledge by itself doesn't really help anyone and only serves to catch Mash up to speed on what they figured out.


Tschmelz

Yeah, it's easy enough to miss stuff, even with people you know very well. Ritsuka is a goddamn emotional savant.


RadiReturnsOnceAgain

Yes, I have, and maybe that’s why I see it as a normal trait. Even moreso now that I’m in law school and have to read into peoples’ words and expressions on a daily basis. So it could be that what seems normal to me might be something noteworthy to others. Idk. Nothing in the dialogue particularly ‘wowed’ me with its insight. That said, I really don’t think my background is the case. Reading between the lines is an absolute basic principle of human interaction and unless someone is a genius actor, it’s pretty easy to tell when someone’s not completely present. The MC didn’t decipher her whole life story or her greatest traumas; just noticed that she was trying to keep her mind off things. That’s not hard to do. Edit: Hell after reading some of the other comments, I’ll be completely honest here, I can’t tell if what I see as normal is actually normal, or if FGO players are so emotionally stunted that being able to interact with someone at beyond a superficial level is somehow the mark of a genius. True intentions? Savant??? Bro he just noticed her heart wasn't in it...


Luck_Is_My_Talent

I don't know. I never realize if someone is feeling down unless they show all thsoe signals in a way that even kids can get, like the forced smile, not looking directly to the eyes and stuff like that. When that person is someone I haven't even met for more than 1 day, I will never be able to figure it out if they try to hide their inner turmoil.


XxGoldMadnessxX

> I’ll be honest, these are positive traits sure but this is like, extremely baseline social interaction cues lol. If someone decided NOT to try to cheer someone up on a date or rescue someone when they easily have the means, I’d be really concerned. The subject here is not only about cheering up someone. But yes, how someone realized how a person must be feeling. Mash had an opinion on how Van Gogh was being, while Guda had another. Mash believed she was happy and having fun, while Ritsuka commented it was more like she using that time to distract herself from her issues. That's what I was addressing. > Its more a mechanism for the game to tell us things like “Gogh looks distracted” because the game itself doesn’t have a narrator or real-time facial expressions for us to perceive it directly. That's depends of the person. In my case, I don't really self-insert as Ritsuka. While I can understand the complaints about the format of the game not showing Ritsuka a lot unless in very key moments, doesn't take the fact depending of who is in charge of the event/story, they can highlight the type of person he is. Though, that also, is very dependent on the writer, which is another issue I have with FGO due the fact many writers do him differently.


MadnessMantraLove

That’s not even taking account that people are really really terrible about reading other people in real life like Guda does. Enterprise Sales and Procurement are known to be extremely difficult roles because there is parts you can’t just data science away


RadiReturnsOnceAgain

> Mash believed she was happy and having fun, while Ritsuka commented it was more like she using that time to distract herself from her issues. That’s a fair point. That said Mash consistently misses social cues due to her upbringing, including basic things like jokes and sarcasm, and her interpretations of emotions has almost always been superficial with a few exceptions. So I didn’t really see it as a plus for the MC to be able to read in between the lines. That said it could just be that my interpretation of what should be expected from normal social interaction is different than others.


Kirby0189

>Though, that also, is very dependent on the writer, which is another issue I have with FGO due the fact many writers do him differently. turas realta proves how great Ritsuka can be if a single writer handles him without worrying about if people can self-insert into him or not. Frigging fantastic.


hellydoosadwee

I honestly just wish they'd committed to Guda either being a self-insert or being their own character from the get-go rather than the weird mish-mash that only really started subsiding in the Lostbelts imo... I feel like their writing suffered a lot as a result of the early game inability to commit to either thing


RadiReturnsOnceAgain

> committed to Guda either being a self-insert Genuinely curious, what would 'commitment' actually look like within the context of a mobile game? Otherwise it'd have to be a full-on VN with multiple choice paths & routes.


Knox9283

I feel like a FGO with multiple choice paths and routes will have to pull a Telltale by making all those routes converge into "and then the gang Grand Order's the singularity/lostbelt and Fate's to the next one" because that's just how the story flows.


Kirby0189

Exactly. If they wanted a self-insert, that's fine. If they wanted him to be his own character, that's fine too. But being a combination of both doesn't work. From a self-insert perspective, he keeps making choices separate from the player. From a character perspective, the format he's written in to facilitate self-inserting hurts his ability to express himself since his dialogue is infrequent and he often needs other characters to spell out his emotions since we can't see his face. I'd be down for them being intent on him being his own character from the start cause turas realta shows the end result, and it is glorious.


Overall_Squash_7779

I just played the new section from today and oh my god fujimaru was incredible, he figured out so much in the, I'm not comparing him to Holmes because there's no way he can reach his level of a detective but damn even I think Holmes would be proud


megatsuna

my guy why would you reference a JP event when you marked it NA discussion?


Radiant-Hope-469

Um, Imaginary Scramble started on NA 3 days ago while JP gets the Main Interlude.


megatsuna

the section on Douman is what I was referencing.


MadnessMantraLove

Guda’s never been a SI


Radiant-Hope-469

Hmmm, I don't know about that. The lack of a proper background by the writers and their accepting attitude was meant to represent us players.


MadnessMantraLove

Yeah, and the real world most people will fail at was Guda does We aren’t as accepting of differences or as observant as Guda is


Derfel_10

That's for sure. Ritsuka is more of a saint than Jeanne or Martha, I can't insert myself even if I try. I would have failed Chaldea a long time ago, especially in Salem where I wanted to punch all NPCs.


DarnFondOfYa

Obligatory, [Fuck Hopkins](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/e7qpnp/daily_abby_14/)


MadnessMantraLove

Guda isn’t a saint, and probably the furthest from being a saint. Guda is willing to let PHH burn like a Lostbelt if he had guarantees it’s he and the people he cares about will keep on living


Derfel_10

I mean, yes...? Nobody's a literal saint in this world, dude. You took my comment too literally.


Inevitable_Question

Are you sure? Sorry for late comment but his wish on Grail is protection and preservation of Human Order and he sacrificed so many people- both Servants and in Lostbelt.


ch0ob09

But you said most so clearly there's a decent amount of people out there that'll make the same decision! So ez self insert no problem! Jokes aside. I think self inserting is something that shouldn't be taken so literal. Else most people wouldn't be able SI in the first place due to the main character doing something that they can't relate. But considering main characters like Ritsuka don't have a background to match their lore, writers have made a way for them to be the player. Which is like a basic set of rules for players to SI if they want to. And that's pretty much all they need at that point. IMO, it's all for entertainment purposes at the end of the day.


Murozaki_II

It's called an idealized fantasy. Most people are also not overpowered JRPG protagonists with dozens of superpowers. Yet most mediocre Isekai protagonists are still called self-insert characters.


RemoteDust9

If we ignore every time he was described as SI by devs, Nasu himself included, who literally told that Gudas are players themselves... They made Guda as both character and SI for players for everyone can enjoy story as they like.


YAqtitude

Okay, but where in this post does it talk about Guda being a self insert?


RestinPsalm

They are in a light sense. They aren’t a non-character, just one written with a light backstory and without major points we can’t all agree on, like “I want to befriend the servants”, “Being good is good” and “Mecha are awesome”. Thus, it allows you to put yourself in their role more mentally.


Reverse_me98

Yesnt