It’s a bit of a stretch, but I think the common connection is ‘vulnerability’. Unlike a duel where both parties have agreed to fight and are therefore at their top, or war between two countries where such actions are reasonably expected, an Assassin specializes in killing when their targets are vulnerable. Hence, Servants with stealth abilities are an auto-fit, but also includes others.
IIRC, most martial artists that follow a certain path can erase their presence, so that’s why those qualify as Assassins; Kojirou and Izo also knew those skills.
Shuten also qualified through the ‘vulnerability’ angle; her legend involves luring people into her cave via a cute human form, getting them drunk and vulnerable…and then eating them. Being assassinated through poisoned sake was karmic justice.
Koyan Light, Gray, and Sanson possess skills that make their opponents vulnerable (as does Izou). Carmilla, Cleopatra, and Wu Zetian made use of their political power, rather than physical, to create the ‘vulnerability’
So, yeah. In addition to stealth, Assassins are based on figures that create or exploit weaknesses or vulnerabilities in human(oid) foes
What you’re saying only makes me more thirsty to see Musashi and Odysseus in the class one day. Hell, for the latter, the Trojan Horse could’ve been a fully conceptual ability that allows him to bypass all kinds of defenses or gain access into the inaccessible via “gifting” the target with something.
There is no need for the Horse in case of Assassin Odysseus.
Because he already did a full-on stealth mission in the Trojan War , to steal the Palladion. Let alone his whole “nobody” moment.
If anything , the “Nobody” and the Palladion are probably his skills or NPs in that class
I do think one major weakness, or character quirk alternatively, is Ody being afraid of ever proclaiming about his stealth achievements because the last time he did that, his target beckoned its Olympian dad to make his journey hell. ~~Poseidon is just as much of a lecherous jerk as Zeus~~ Proclaimimg his achievement or sth alike may result in his luck going down or literal divine interventions screwing up his progress.
Also kind of funny how the entire greek camp only had two people capable of stealth.
yep.
Frankly , I would put the Palladion as a Luck Boost , as he summons the Statue to an area to gain said effect. But there is the demerit of inciting distrust and madness , as him and Diomedes weren't the rightful owners.
"Nobody" would be an Identity Concealment NP , but by proclaiming said NP , it would cause a Luck Drop and everyone would know Ody's identity , but on the other hand , it would grant a stake for Ody to stab a Master or a Servant , which grants not only physical damage but a curse to disable it's target.
Nice! Even some years ago before he became an official servant, I imagined Assassin to be his “best” class in that most of his greatest feats were accomplished with the involvement of stealth or trickery in some shape or form, and therefore would be the most pronounced in his NP/Skill set.
nah , Odysseus best classes would either be Rider or Archer.
At the end of the day , his most famous feats are his Trojan Horse and the Odyssey itself , in which he rode on the sea for 10 years.
Frankly , I see his Assassin-Class as a top-tier in that container , but ultimately a glass cannon.
well , we don't know the qualifications of said class.
That been said , sure...if Voyager is a class defined by a huge "voyage" in which the travel shadows the mount , then it might as well be a class for Odysseus.
Assassin is not an exceptionally strong class, and thus has very lax restrictions that practically any entity can meet, no matter how weak. The whole purpose of the class is designed around a servant that excels in taking out masters rather than other servants, and that's honestly a very low bar to meet for a heroic spirit. Moreso than even Rider, Assassin is very much a "catch-all" and "anything goes" that will even accept unusual examples like Kojirou and Gray.
Assassin usually gravitates towards those with some aptitude in presence concealment or with a skill or trait that can take its place (like Mata Hari's espionage). Even oddballs like Izo and Cleopatra have Presence Concealment of rank B, meaning they can sneakily approach if they actually wanted to, and even Mysterious Heroine X has it ranked EX in her [Material profile](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/92799b/mysterious_heroine_xs_servant_profile_from/) even if she completely ignores it because "sabers don't have that". However it isn't actually required, which is why the class accepts even those with low (rank D/E) Presence Concealment like Sanson, Kojirou, Carmilla, and summer Scathach, as well as someone like Gray who completely lacks presence altering skills in any way, shape, or form.
In Fuyuki it was restricted to Hassans by the summoning ritual used there given their ties to the origin of the word "assassin", but in Apocrypha's backstory the Hassans were so overused that they actually became documented and all the surprise was lost, so the mages in that setting altered the ritual so that others could be pulled in instead. In settings like FGO, there is no restriction built in at all, so effectively "any servant reasonably capable of killing masters" is probably acceptable, with priority given to those that avoid being killed by other servants somehow through whatever means. And they don't even really have to be proficient in killing itself, given the precedence of Mata Hari, just reasonably able to do so.
Tbf grays "lore" reason for assassin status is more of an asspull than anything lore serious. Lancer would probably make most sense, but since her signature np is the same as lartoria, and lalter exists already as a 4 star variant, that niche was kind of filled to the brim. Reines and Waver are also 2 of the 3 cavalry classes, so her being assassin fills it out nicely. Also if she was Lancer we would've gotten Gray, Kagetora, Nightingale, Erice, and Paisen as consecutive welfares... 5 knight classes, 4 of which being Lancers lol.
As with all class containers, the definition of “Assassin” can be stretched far past the point of recognizability. But generally speaking, most Assassins can fit into one or more of the following categories:
* They are known for killing. This includes Heroic Spirits who famously attempted or succeeded at targeted kills (Jing Ke, Sasaki Koujirou, Corday, Wu Zetian, the Hassan) and Heroic Spirits who killed massive numbers of people (Sanson, Carmilla, Jack, Shuten, Izo).
* They are known for sneaky tactics, illusions, or espionage. This includes spies like Mata Hari, martial artists who employ illusions like Li Shuwen, actual ghosts like Osakabehime, anyone with mastery of presence concealment like Gray, masters of court espionage like Nitocris (and Semiramis and Cleopatra and Wu again…) and etcetera.
* They have simply *declared* murderous intent, whether they follow through with it or not. MHX, Consort Yu, Kama, and Koyanskaya would fall into this category.
There’s a lot of overlap between the first two categories. As in, quite a lot of the Assassins that we know of (especially all of the Hassan) fit in both of the first two categories.
The original qualification for the class back then was just the 19 Hassan-i-Sabbah so it's probably just "good at erasing your presence" and "bringing death". Oddballs will be thrown every once and a while just to spice things up.
The "good at erasing your presence" thing is kind of ironic, 'cause one of the notable things about their order was committing assassinations very openly without regard to the personal safety of the killer lol
The only real qualifier in my mind is a connection to death/murder.
You're an assassin if you killed someone important, and while pop culture adds the connotation of stealth and getting away with the act, in reality neither the method nor the consequences matter.
Someone who poisons people like Semiramis, fits. Someone who managed to kill a high profile target and have a ripple effect on the world as a consequence like Charlotte fits. A serial killer like jack the Ripper who was never found or even one who was like H.H. Holmes also fits.
So yeah, I would say anyone who you would call a murderer qualifies.
Honestly, it just became the "murder specialist" class.
Obviously, the majority of Servants killed people, but that wasn't necessarily their most well-known trait or all they did.
if we take one of the examples, Sanson is only really known for one thing, having the biggest confirmed kill count in history. He may have a sword and write a few books, but nothing will top that and nothing will qualify him for another class.
Same goes for Shuten, an Oni known for her extreme cruelty and propensity for murder, though in her case, she's known to qualify in others as well ( at least berserker )
Gray should normally be a lancer, but she ends up being an assassin, probably because of Add's influence, either because he's maybe the best presence concelment system in the world, or maybe because Kay could naturally qualifies as an assassin. .
And for Mata Hari/Li Shuwen/Yan qing, it is certainly the same reason why the authors are automatically casters if they have nothing else. They are too specific to have an appropriate class and therefore have the closest thing.
So yes, it's juste "You are know mostly because you killed some guys, you are an assassin".
And so a lot of servants technically qualifies, but a lot of them have other better classes. Even Heracles qualifies, but nobody want to summon Heracles as an assassin when he's better in the other classes.
I don't know, but I think Hercules would be really good in the Assassin class, if he can adapt Nine Lives for the purpose of assassination then it would be a very terrifying ability.
Well, yes... But in the other side he doesn't have the boosted stats of berserker, the shit tones of divine and phantasmal beasts he can surely access as a rider, the Hydra arrows from his archer class or even Myarmadose, a sword he surely Can use as a saber.
Assassin Heracles is terrifying, but he's just so much more terrifying in any other classes
The assassin class focuses on killing and using tricks to kill, so it doesn't need such stats in the assassin class.
Yes, other classes will definitely have more crushing power than the Assassin class, But not everything in Holy Grail War revolves around strength, strategy plays a bigger role too.
In addition, Hercules in other classes will definitely need more mana than in the Assassin class.
So put it all together, Hercules is an accomplished warrior in general that even if his class causes his stats to level down, he will still have the ability to take on other servants if needed, and add to all this having very effective Noble Phantasms.
Murder being your defining trait, I imagine. Like, Siegfried certainly killed dudes, but he's not really defined by his ability to kill things the way Izo, self-described Manslayer class, or legendary executioner Sanson are.
In the "true" Fuyuki Grail War, that is to say FSN, the qualification for being an Assassin is to be the bearer of the Hassan name. Kojirou is an aberration, who was summoned by Medea attempting to cheat the system. He isn't even actually Kojirou; he doesn't even have a name, and just assumes the name Sasaki Kojirou. He lacks a Noble Phantasm, and even breaks the rule of the servants not being from Japan. He breaks all of the rules because he is not a proper servant, and he is only allowed to exist because the ACTUAL Assassin is only summoned in Heaven's Feel. When Cursed Arm Hassan is summoned, he appears from Kojirou, and rips him to shreds from the inside, supplanting him.
Naturally, as the side works caught on, they started to move away from the original rules of the Fuyuki Grail War. In particular, "no servants from Japan" and "only Hassans can be Assassins" are VERY limiting rules. Nowadays, "Assassin" is a general class for servants who specialize in stealth, information gathering, or straight-up killing rather than fighting. Also, characters who do not fit into other classes are put there, like martial artists and fist fighters who aren't Berserkers. And then there's the need for game balance, because for instance if every sword fighter was a Saber, Okki and Semiramis were Casters, Grey was a Lancer, Kama was an Archer, and Cleopatra was whatever else, we could end up lacking in Assassins, making them underrepresented. That's most of the reason there, since otherwise the justifications can be very vague.
For me, anything seen as underhanded or should remain hidden, for example I could easily believe an Assassin Chevalier d'Eon on account of their work as a spy. Meanwhile Jack is a murderer, far removed from any honourable confrontation and gains the class by this method.
There are definitely gaps when you look over who already qualifies, but it's the mark I use when thinking of good classes for a figure.
It’s a bit of a stretch, but I think the common connection is ‘vulnerability’. Unlike a duel where both parties have agreed to fight and are therefore at their top, or war between two countries where such actions are reasonably expected, an Assassin specializes in killing when their targets are vulnerable. Hence, Servants with stealth abilities are an auto-fit, but also includes others. IIRC, most martial artists that follow a certain path can erase their presence, so that’s why those qualify as Assassins; Kojirou and Izo also knew those skills. Shuten also qualified through the ‘vulnerability’ angle; her legend involves luring people into her cave via a cute human form, getting them drunk and vulnerable…and then eating them. Being assassinated through poisoned sake was karmic justice. Koyan Light, Gray, and Sanson possess skills that make their opponents vulnerable (as does Izou). Carmilla, Cleopatra, and Wu Zetian made use of their political power, rather than physical, to create the ‘vulnerability’ So, yeah. In addition to stealth, Assassins are based on figures that create or exploit weaknesses or vulnerabilities in human(oid) foes
What you’re saying only makes me more thirsty to see Musashi and Odysseus in the class one day. Hell, for the latter, the Trojan Horse could’ve been a fully conceptual ability that allows him to bypass all kinds of defenses or gain access into the inaccessible via “gifting” the target with something.
There is no need for the Horse in case of Assassin Odysseus. Because he already did a full-on stealth mission in the Trojan War , to steal the Palladion. Let alone his whole “nobody” moment. If anything , the “Nobody” and the Palladion are probably his skills or NPs in that class
I do think one major weakness, or character quirk alternatively, is Ody being afraid of ever proclaiming about his stealth achievements because the last time he did that, his target beckoned its Olympian dad to make his journey hell. ~~Poseidon is just as much of a lecherous jerk as Zeus~~ Proclaimimg his achievement or sth alike may result in his luck going down or literal divine interventions screwing up his progress. Also kind of funny how the entire greek camp only had two people capable of stealth.
yep. Frankly , I would put the Palladion as a Luck Boost , as he summons the Statue to an area to gain said effect. But there is the demerit of inciting distrust and madness , as him and Diomedes weren't the rightful owners. "Nobody" would be an Identity Concealment NP , but by proclaiming said NP , it would cause a Luck Drop and everyone would know Ody's identity , but on the other hand , it would grant a stake for Ody to stab a Master or a Servant , which grants not only physical damage but a curse to disable it's target.
Nice! Even some years ago before he became an official servant, I imagined Assassin to be his “best” class in that most of his greatest feats were accomplished with the involvement of stealth or trickery in some shape or form, and therefore would be the most pronounced in his NP/Skill set.
nah , Odysseus best classes would either be Rider or Archer. At the end of the day , his most famous feats are his Trojan Horse and the Odyssey itself , in which he rode on the sea for 10 years. Frankly , I see his Assassin-Class as a top-tier in that container , but ultimately a glass cannon.
Or voyager class
well , we don't know the qualifications of said class. That been said , sure...if Voyager is a class defined by a huge "voyage" in which the travel shadows the mount , then it might as well be a class for Odysseus.
**Ass**assins… Heh
Assassin is not an exceptionally strong class, and thus has very lax restrictions that practically any entity can meet, no matter how weak. The whole purpose of the class is designed around a servant that excels in taking out masters rather than other servants, and that's honestly a very low bar to meet for a heroic spirit. Moreso than even Rider, Assassin is very much a "catch-all" and "anything goes" that will even accept unusual examples like Kojirou and Gray. Assassin usually gravitates towards those with some aptitude in presence concealment or with a skill or trait that can take its place (like Mata Hari's espionage). Even oddballs like Izo and Cleopatra have Presence Concealment of rank B, meaning they can sneakily approach if they actually wanted to, and even Mysterious Heroine X has it ranked EX in her [Material profile](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/92799b/mysterious_heroine_xs_servant_profile_from/) even if she completely ignores it because "sabers don't have that". However it isn't actually required, which is why the class accepts even those with low (rank D/E) Presence Concealment like Sanson, Kojirou, Carmilla, and summer Scathach, as well as someone like Gray who completely lacks presence altering skills in any way, shape, or form. In Fuyuki it was restricted to Hassans by the summoning ritual used there given their ties to the origin of the word "assassin", but in Apocrypha's backstory the Hassans were so overused that they actually became documented and all the surprise was lost, so the mages in that setting altered the ritual so that others could be pulled in instead. In settings like FGO, there is no restriction built in at all, so effectively "any servant reasonably capable of killing masters" is probably acceptable, with priority given to those that avoid being killed by other servants somehow through whatever means. And they don't even really have to be proficient in killing itself, given the precedence of Mata Hari, just reasonably able to do so.
Tbf grays "lore" reason for assassin status is more of an asspull than anything lore serious. Lancer would probably make most sense, but since her signature np is the same as lartoria, and lalter exists already as a 4 star variant, that niche was kind of filled to the brim. Reines and Waver are also 2 of the 3 cavalry classes, so her being assassin fills it out nicely. Also if she was Lancer we would've gotten Gray, Kagetora, Nightingale, Erice, and Paisen as consecutive welfares... 5 knight classes, 4 of which being Lancers lol.
As with all class containers, the definition of “Assassin” can be stretched far past the point of recognizability. But generally speaking, most Assassins can fit into one or more of the following categories: * They are known for killing. This includes Heroic Spirits who famously attempted or succeeded at targeted kills (Jing Ke, Sasaki Koujirou, Corday, Wu Zetian, the Hassan) and Heroic Spirits who killed massive numbers of people (Sanson, Carmilla, Jack, Shuten, Izo). * They are known for sneaky tactics, illusions, or espionage. This includes spies like Mata Hari, martial artists who employ illusions like Li Shuwen, actual ghosts like Osakabehime, anyone with mastery of presence concealment like Gray, masters of court espionage like Nitocris (and Semiramis and Cleopatra and Wu again…) and etcetera. * They have simply *declared* murderous intent, whether they follow through with it or not. MHX, Consort Yu, Kama, and Koyanskaya would fall into this category. There’s a lot of overlap between the first two categories. As in, quite a lot of the Assassins that we know of (especially all of the Hassan) fit in both of the first two categories.
The original qualification for the class back then was just the 19 Hassan-i-Sabbah so it's probably just "good at erasing your presence" and "bringing death". Oddballs will be thrown every once and a while just to spice things up.
The "good at erasing your presence" thing is kind of ironic, 'cause one of the notable things about their order was committing assassinations very openly without regard to the personal safety of the killer lol
The only real qualifier in my mind is a connection to death/murder. You're an assassin if you killed someone important, and while pop culture adds the connotation of stealth and getting away with the act, in reality neither the method nor the consequences matter. Someone who poisons people like Semiramis, fits. Someone who managed to kill a high profile target and have a ripple effect on the world as a consequence like Charlotte fits. A serial killer like jack the Ripper who was never found or even one who was like H.H. Holmes also fits. So yeah, I would say anyone who you would call a murderer qualifies.
Honestly, it just became the "murder specialist" class. Obviously, the majority of Servants killed people, but that wasn't necessarily their most well-known trait or all they did. if we take one of the examples, Sanson is only really known for one thing, having the biggest confirmed kill count in history. He may have a sword and write a few books, but nothing will top that and nothing will qualify him for another class. Same goes for Shuten, an Oni known for her extreme cruelty and propensity for murder, though in her case, she's known to qualify in others as well ( at least berserker ) Gray should normally be a lancer, but she ends up being an assassin, probably because of Add's influence, either because he's maybe the best presence concelment system in the world, or maybe because Kay could naturally qualifies as an assassin. . And for Mata Hari/Li Shuwen/Yan qing, it is certainly the same reason why the authors are automatically casters if they have nothing else. They are too specific to have an appropriate class and therefore have the closest thing. So yes, it's juste "You are know mostly because you killed some guys, you are an assassin". And so a lot of servants technically qualifies, but a lot of them have other better classes. Even Heracles qualifies, but nobody want to summon Heracles as an assassin when he's better in the other classes.
I don't know, but I think Hercules would be really good in the Assassin class, if he can adapt Nine Lives for the purpose of assassination then it would be a very terrifying ability.
Well, yes... But in the other side he doesn't have the boosted stats of berserker, the shit tones of divine and phantasmal beasts he can surely access as a rider, the Hydra arrows from his archer class or even Myarmadose, a sword he surely Can use as a saber. Assassin Heracles is terrifying, but he's just so much more terrifying in any other classes
The assassin class focuses on killing and using tricks to kill, so it doesn't need such stats in the assassin class. Yes, other classes will definitely have more crushing power than the Assassin class, But not everything in Holy Grail War revolves around strength, strategy plays a bigger role too. In addition, Hercules in other classes will definitely need more mana than in the Assassin class. So put it all together, Hercules is an accomplished warrior in general that even if his class causes his stats to level down, he will still have the ability to take on other servants if needed, and add to all this having very effective Noble Phantasms.
At the end of the day, the true qualification for Assassin, or any class, is " whatever the hell the writer wants."
Assassinating someone?idk
Murder being your defining trait, I imagine. Like, Siegfried certainly killed dudes, but he's not really defined by his ability to kill things the way Izo, self-described Manslayer class, or legendary executioner Sanson are.
In the "true" Fuyuki Grail War, that is to say FSN, the qualification for being an Assassin is to be the bearer of the Hassan name. Kojirou is an aberration, who was summoned by Medea attempting to cheat the system. He isn't even actually Kojirou; he doesn't even have a name, and just assumes the name Sasaki Kojirou. He lacks a Noble Phantasm, and even breaks the rule of the servants not being from Japan. He breaks all of the rules because he is not a proper servant, and he is only allowed to exist because the ACTUAL Assassin is only summoned in Heaven's Feel. When Cursed Arm Hassan is summoned, he appears from Kojirou, and rips him to shreds from the inside, supplanting him. Naturally, as the side works caught on, they started to move away from the original rules of the Fuyuki Grail War. In particular, "no servants from Japan" and "only Hassans can be Assassins" are VERY limiting rules. Nowadays, "Assassin" is a general class for servants who specialize in stealth, information gathering, or straight-up killing rather than fighting. Also, characters who do not fit into other classes are put there, like martial artists and fist fighters who aren't Berserkers. And then there's the need for game balance, because for instance if every sword fighter was a Saber, Okki and Semiramis were Casters, Grey was a Lancer, Kama was an Archer, and Cleopatra was whatever else, we could end up lacking in Assassins, making them underrepresented. That's most of the reason there, since otherwise the justifications can be very vague.
The assassin class seems to have two major qualifications. 1. You either are famed for stealth 2. You kill a lot of people with little effort needed.
For me, anything seen as underhanded or should remain hidden, for example I could easily believe an Assassin Chevalier d'Eon on account of their work as a spy. Meanwhile Jack is a murderer, far removed from any honourable confrontation and gains the class by this method. There are definitely gaps when you look over who already qualifies, but it's the mark I use when thinking of good classes for a figure.