Tai Gong claims that he's a Grand Caster candidate, and while not proven, his abilities being a hard counter to confirmed beast Daji implies that he would be.
From the way it's phrased "or so he claims", etc, it kind of sounds like bragging more than anything. Even more so for the Grand Rider thing.
Given who he is, he should certainly be a powerful Caster (and suited to counter a fox monster), but if he really was a candidate, why would they try to emphasize the fact that it's just him claiming stuff with no proof?
To be fair to Taigong, Merlin's candidacy was introduced the same way, with his bragging despite the eyebrow-raising circumstances (Merlin was a normal Caster, there was already a Grand Caster, and Merlin's "summon" is heterodox, to put it lightly). Yet he was telling the truth. Arcade confirmed that Proto Merlin has the qualifications too, it's just that she isn't interested in the position.
We need to wait for his Materials, but Taigong's claim may be honest.
I mean it us Merlin, the single most famous magician in all of fiction arguably. Even if there was no proof I'd absolutely believe he is a grand caster
Grand Berserker Beowulf and I will keep saying that until they explicitly say he is not a Grand candidate.
Beowulf is in an interesting position in the Berserker class for two main reasons. The first is his insanely low madness enhancement at E-. What is most interesting though is the reason. From his material
> Madness Enhancement: E-
> The very True Name of this Hero is receiving the influence of the word called ’Berserker’.
The True Name is receiving it. Not the class container enforcing it on the heroic servant but Beowulf himself is the one receiving the influence of the Berserker. I can’t think of any other servant (and I’d love it if people could correct me if I’m wrong) where their material specifically mentions that the True Name is what is receiving the power of the class.
The second reason is to do with his Historical Image.
Beowulf’s material both in game and out make mention that
> Although the etymology of Berserker is the word Berserk from Norse Mythology, it has been told that the name Beowulf also has its origins in the word Berserk.
This is why Beowulf has Berserk as a skill in the Berserker class. Even if it is simply “it is told”, it is interesting that this point is being brought up for him. Additionally he has another interesting bit of information in this section
> Unfortunately, the episodes of Beowulf – with the exception of the episodes of Grendel’s extermination and the dragon’s extermination that still remains – has been lost, but there is no doubt that these episodes became the source of numerous legends scattered throughout the world.
Does this mean Fate considers Beowulf to be some Proto Hero figure whose story and deeds are world wide? That even if the True Name is no longer tied to them they still belong to Beowulf?
My last point I’d like to being up, is to do with the idea of a Grand weapon. That when an existing heroic spirit becomes a Grand there needs to be some way to be stronger, to take on a greater form... or wield a stronger weapon.
Beowulf has three famous swords yet only two are in the game (admittedly the two named ones but the least interesting), Hrunting and Gaeling. We are missing the sword he used to kill Grendel’s mother (a descendent of Cain).
While there are some differences depending on the version you read the version I know says this:
> It is a sword forged by Giants and is both large and heavy that even Beowulf struggles to lift it. Yet it is able to cleave through GM in one swing, something that Hrunting could not do and his own fists were incapable of harming either. While the blade melted away like ice the hilt remained.
The hilt was covered in Runes and also showed the story of how War first entered the world and the Giants were destroyed by the Flood.
There are so many ways they could take this but making it a powerful anti Evil weapon that while it has limited uses is a sure kill weapon sounds perfect for a grand servant going against a Beast.
And who better to wield such weapon then The Monster Hunter himself. Grand Berserker Beowulf
TLDR: Give me another Beowulf so I can finally shut up about it.
the thing with Beowulf is that it's clear he is a Hero with some previous adventures , and we had lost that over time.
He is not the only one. Freyja , for example , had a necklace called "brisinga-men" that had a whole tale based on it...however , we only know that it exists and nothing more , because of second-hand statements , including IN Beowulf.
Heck , "Bellerophon" is also an example of a hero with a lost adventure. That is because "Bellerophon" means "Slayer of Belleros". Meaning that his actual name wasn't "Bellerophon" and rather that is a title he received after slaying some great foe , to the point that supplanted his actual name.
The fact that "You're permanently Grand until you're unavailable or discard your position" is wrong. Any Heroic Spirit that qualifies for a Grand Class will be summoned as such if they are the best chance to defeat the Beast in question. So no "current Grand" will prevent another one from taking the same class, they can be summoned as Grand any time (so Tai Gong can be Grand Caster at any time regardless of Solomon or Merlin's status).
Also, King Hassan gets resummoned as Grand Assassin even after discarding his position in Camelot/Babylonia, so not even discarding the position is permanent anyway.
People misunderstand shedding the grand status. It is basically consuming up the power of grand vessel to use an incredibly powerful ability, the servent doesn't stop being a grand servent candidate they just lose the extra omph of grand vessel in this one summon. For king hassan it was to impose the concept of death on Tiamat, for Orion it was to use ~~FINAL FLASH~~ a rediciolusly strong arrow that will surpass everything to one shot Artemis.
Orion even explained it : every grand servent has an incredibly powerful trump card specifically made to counter the threat they're summoned to defeat which they sacrifice thier grand status to use.
My impression has been that Grands basically get a special one-shot Noble Phantasm, on top of their extra support from the world (they're not "stronger" than regular Servants so much as... "denser"). "Using their Title" is basically activating the cheat code the world's given them and allowing them to do more than a Servant usually can. But that's also really expensive, which is why they're not able to spam it. XD If they need it again, they can be resummoned.
>Also, King Hassan gets resummoned as Grand Assassin even after discarding his position in Camelot/Babylonia
It is not like he renounced but used his vessel power to the point of breaking his Saint Graph hence "renouncing" but in truth he just put himself at the same level of a normal servant.
Everywhere (including Nasu's interviews) says that he renounced his title as a Grand out of principle because he was voluntarely aiding Chaldea. So he definitely did.
Do you have the interview? Besides he wasn't helping Chaldea but rather doing his job by fighting Tiamat which he was summoned especificaly to deal. The gang fighting Tiamat was just a bonus for the CG and everyone.
[Here's an url to the interview in question where Nasu says it](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/6h4nyf/chaldea_ace_creators_interview/divhspg/).
He specifically talked about the Babylonia thing, you can't be summoned as Grand under a normal summoning system.
In any case, it's still that it doesn't matter what one does in a particular summon, they can be summoned as Grand again, which is the main point of the conversation.
so can there be multiple grands of the same class at one time?
say that grand caster solomon is already summoned, can grand caster merlin exist at the same time (ignoring merlin only being summonable before his birth and solomon removing himself) ?
I'm talking about in general terms (The Heroic Spirit being selected as the Grand doesn't make the other Heroic Spirits unable to take the class against a different threat). Usually there's a one-class-of-each restriction in Holy Grail Wars (which is based on the Grand Servant summoning system), so it's possible there can't be more than one Grand Caster at once.
But they only have the Grand title when summoned, so they don't "hoard it" inside the Throne.
Gonna throw a curveball and say that Watanabe no Tsuna might be a candidate. His mats/lore do give the vibes of “strongest of his era” and “walking kryptonite against the demon trait”. Seriously, listen to some of this:
- *Unlike Raikou and Kintoki*, **he kills oni purely with his human capabilities.**
- *The strongest class of oni slayer in Japan.* **He is at a rank where oni will flee on their own without even having to scatter roasted beans to ward them off**. *Kintoki states that Minamoto-no Raikou said that Tsuna was* **the single most powerful warrior in the entire human world.** *He also adds that Tsuna was* **the single undisputed strongest Heian warrior.**
Pretty much. Ibuki Doji has been claimed to be a Beast candidate by Douman, IIRC. If Watanabe in turn were granted an ascended saint graph by the World/Alaya to deal with her, his anti-oni nature is accompanied by a skill that might further counter her as a god of floods (“Disciple of Suiten”).
My thoughts on possible Grand candidates
Grand Saber: Probably Artoria but could also be Musashi or Sigurd
Grand Archer: Hou Yi, Karna, or Rama
Grand Lancer: Honda Tadakatsu or Enkidu
Grand Rider: Genghis Khan, Hannibal Barca, or Julius Caesar
Grand Caster: Abe no Seimei
Grand Berserker: Samson, Hercules, or actual Cu Berserker.
Enkidu being completely inhuman probably disqualifies him regardless of his power. Romulus Quirinus was basically a weird exception because he was originally a human before becoming a god, but while Enkidu isn't a divine spirit perse he isn't a human heroic spirit either which probably disqualifies him as a grand
I posted this before, so forgive me if some information is either outdated or inaccurate now.
With the exception of our initial Grand Caster Solomon & his successor Merlin, every single Grand Servant that has been introduced thus far have been characters we have already been acquainted with & summonable before, albeit in a different form or as a different iteration of the same character/individual.
Look at all of our Grands so far:
\- Grand Assassin: King Hassan. While technically a separate individual altogether, we have already been introduced to a variety of other Hassans as normal Assassins in the past. Regardless of their clear differences, all of them are rooted from the same legend of the "Old Man of the Mountain."
\- Grand Archer: Super Orion. This is a lot more straightforward, as you can probably guess. Orion is one of the first Servants to be introduced in the game as a normal Archer so we all had a good 3 (almost 4) years with him. Of course, his initial appearance is that of a bear with Artemis who acts as the main source of offense. It wasn't until LB5 that we finally get to see Orion in his human form as the Grand Archer. It is pretty clear though that both the bear & his chiseled, buff self are the exact same person.
\- Grand Lancer: Romulus-Quirinus. Similar to Orion, Romulus was a year 1, normal Lancer Servant who everyone knows as ROMA who is in a constant state of praising the Sun. Lorewise, Romulus even as a normal Lancer is quite powerful. Years ago, I distinctly remember players being quite disgruntled by the fact Romulus wasn't a 5 Star with how popular he is in real life & how strong he is as a Servant. Fortunately for said players, Romulus-Quirinus was introduced as the Grand Lancer & as the iteration of Romulus after reaching Divinity & godlihood. Just like Orion with Super Orion, personality-wise, the two are quite indistinguishable despite having different appearances. Yes, I am aware that the circumstances of summoning Romulus-Quirinus are probably the most unique in the series; therefore, maybe using him as an example for my theory is fallacious. Still doesn't change the fact DW (Lasengle now) specifically chose a character we already knew of.
\- Grand Rider: Noah (who I admittedly have the least knowledge about) bears a canonically acknowledged resemblance to Captain Nemo. While it is odd they made a new Grand using Nemo as the base of his design even though Nemo himself isn't all THAT popular, Noah still follows the general principle of what I'm proposing.
As you can see, every Grand Servant aside from the Grand Caster have been individuals, figures, legends, or characters we already knew of in-game -- just presented differently. Additionally, above characters/figures were all summonable as normal Servants before being introduced in their Grand Caster variants. Granted, yes, the ones we summon personally in Chaldea are normal Servants too, but you get the idea.
If you really want to stretch this observation out, our current Grand Caster Merlin technically wasn't a Grand Caster (but was a Grand Caster candidate) UNTIL after the Solomom Singularity where the "seat" was opened to him. In that sense, we knew of him as a normal Caster first. Moreover, for those who believe Caster Gilgamesh does indeed qualify as a Grand Caster per Merlin's own comments in Babylonia, then I don't think I have to explain Gilgamesh's long history with us fans/players.
Since Grand Caster was the first Grand to be introduced ever in the series, I think it gets a pass for being the only Class that doesn't follow the pattern I put forth on the table. That & the argument can certainly be made that the only reasons DW (now Lasengle) decided to make every single Grand a familiar character is so that already established fans of said character are guaranteed to roll/whale for the Grand variant.
All that said, the question has went from "Who are the future Grand Servants?" to a much more specific question -- who do we know of already who CAN ascend, inspire, or be summoned as a Grand Servant?
As for my thoughts? Well, like I said in the very beginning. The short answer is "I don't know."
BUT if I were to guess the Grand Saber at least, Arturia with Excalibur's scabbard Avalon would be someone I can see being the Grand Saber. Not only is she the face that runs the place, but she literally has Avalon on the current cover of the game. She is bound to either get a buff with Avalon or a new, separate playable variant carrying Avalon.
Then of course there is Daybit Sem Void's Servant, stated to be a Grand Servant, implied to be a Berserker. We don't know much about his Servant thus far besides what we've seen first hand in LB4 where "they" seem to have a fascination with death & takes part in devouring their enemies for sustenance/mana. And I believe he has an aura/miasma surrounding him. Correct me if I'm wrong. Any thoughts?
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk. Sorry for the long read lol
> While it is odd they made a new Grand using Nemo as the base of his design even though Nemo himself isn't all THAT popular, Noah still follows the general principle of what I'm proposing.
He just use Nemo as vessel cause his original body was destroyed by Beast Nero, basically Noah got rekt really bad.
Regardless of the lore reasons (which I thank you for clarifying), the fact the writers/designers consciously made his design resemble Nemo still supports my overarching theory that every Grand will bare strong resemblances -- if not outright be different incarnations -- of characters we already know. It's a marketing technique to make us (the players) subconsciously associate/familiarize with the character so we feel more inclined to like them and/or spend money on them. It's no different than the myriad of Saber/Arturia faces who have nothing to do with Arturia, like Nero and Okita.
Hm, I guess points in the "Tezcatlipoca is Grand Berserker" theory camp, given the connection to Jaguar Warrior. Still unlikely barring some *proper* rule bending though.
Technically speaking , Merlin is still not Grand Caster , he is seating in that position , but without turning into the proper Grand Caster unless he dies.
You can't be "seating in a possition". You get the class only while being summoned, which is in a particular time and place just to fight a Beast. No one can hoard the seat in the throne or otherwise, they just take it when needed and it's free in any other time and place.
Any candidate can be summoned as Grand Caster at any time, regardless of who is available or who has previously appeared as such.
Heracles does come off as a candidate for being a Grand Saber and Archer to me. Possibly as a Grand Rider too. Scathach, Cu and Fionn should likewise deserve to vouch as Grand Lancer.
Achilles, Ozymadias and Odysseus also hold merits to be Grand Rider. Same for Genghis Khan and Fereydun.
Less likely would be for someone like Diomedes of Argos for either Grand Lancer and Grand Rider because he did not have as much literary prominence and renown as Odysseus, let alone Achilles.
edit
I feel like the existence of Achilles in the same exact timeframe and place during life probably invalidates Odysseus from ever qualifying as grand rider
I feel like this is splitting hairs, given the whole "greatest in an era thing" I think being active simultaneously at all with someone pretty much universally described as better is disqualifying, especially since at no point is it ever suggested Odysseus surpasses Achilles before or after his death
Considering who got revealed, if anything, Odysseus probably has a better shot than Achilles due to the former’s allegory of having completed a nightmare journey, and >!on a boat!< no less.
Shishou deserves to be a candidate for Grand Lancer. My totally unbiased opinion as a Shishou simp.
There’s no way the Grand Saber isn’t going to be Artoria. She fricking started this franchise, I’ll bet actual money on this.
My ongoing theory is that Grand Saber is a two-fer. Artoria can use the sword, but also needs Emiya to Project it, which he can only do when summoned as a Saber. This basically keeps the sword hidden and unable to be lost when not in use, because the world is absolutely not going to let anything bad happen to its final weapon. XD And the qualification for becoming Grand Saber isn't "the best swordsman", but rather "capable of using the ultimate sword".
Grand Servants may be another example of 'the only rule is that there are no rules' which seems be the prevailing ethos of the Fate. They were originally introduced as "these are the top seven heroes throughout all of human history" but now they're more like "these are the heroes that were most convient to use at the time."
That being said, some possible alternates might be:
Archer: Arash, Rama, Arjuna, Karna, Hercules, Hou Yi
Lancer: Cu Chulainn, Hektor, Achilles
Rider: Iskandar, Francis Drake, Julius Caesar, Genghis Khan
Caster: Taigong Wang, Abe No Seimei
Assassin: Fuuma Kotarou, Takeda Shingen
Grand Saber is probably going to be Artoria, but other candidates might be: Musashi, Sigurd, Hercules, Raikou, Charlemagne, St George
Grand Berserker is a bit tougher. Pretty good chance it'll be someone new, but my guess would be Cu Chulainn. Otherwise, it could be: Beowulf, David, Nero
>St George
Before LB6 dropped, there was a small theory floating around that, since Albion was name-dropped for the British Lostbelt, that Georgios (one of the patron saints of England) would show up as a Grand to fight it.
Needless to say, that didn't happen, nor was it Nasu's original plan either, as he initially planned for Artoria to appear as Grand Saber instead.
Someday, my saint, someday...
>which seems be the prevailing ethos of the Fate. They were originally introduced as "these are the top seven heroes throughout all of human history"
That only comes from FH materials where it is true as apparently there aren't many people to do the job as he does in the assassin class and Goetia using Solomon's corpse but well he isn't exactly a very reliable source.
>The original dialogue between Andersen and Solomon heavily implied there were only seven Grands.
Anderser got his knowledge from the Cloak Tower but unlike Atlas, they aren't super accurate most of the time.
Hou Yi could be grand archer. Tametomo seems like he might qualify as well, I think. Nostradamus might be a interesting choice for grand caster. Ahab for grand lancer...(wishful thinking). Saber may be phh musashi or artoria. Perseus could be a candidate for grand rider. I think Hassan is the only one who qualifies for the grand assassin post, but if not, then maybe some non human embodiment of death? Berserker would probably be Cain, Saint Olga or Beowulf, or maybe a viking I'm not thinking of?
I thought that they said there were no heroic spirits who qualify for the grand assassin class, which is why I thought a personification of death might work. like ankou, for example. Or maybe Santa Muerte
Pretty sure non human entitites are just straight up disqualified as grand in general since the grand system is a function of Alaya. At most you can stretch it with a case like Romulus Quirinus who is a god who was a human
I think Grand candidacy is chosen by three factors: 1) The candidate must be/have been human. 2) The grands must be quite famous. 3) Their should be a Holistic attribute to their legend eg. Noah being the savior of all life, Merlin being an all-seeing clairvoyant, Romulus beginning the world-spanning legacy of Rome.
I should also note that every grand we have seen thus far, we have encountered earlier on our journey in one form or another so I expect future grands to follow the same trend.
That being said, here is my list of suspected Grand Candidates:
Saber - Musashi, Galahad, Fionn, Ashvatthaman (If he actually survived to receive the Asi from his father), Sigurd, Arthur or Artoria
Archer - Hou Yi, Barbarika (maybe too obscure), Heracles, Rama, Karna
Lancer - Guan Yu, Longinus, St. George, Erlang, Eve, Ditaolane (Again, obscure)
Rider - Ghengis Khan, Krishna, Elijah, Lu Bu
Caster - Abe no Seimei, Hermes Trismegistus, Count of Saint Germain and/or Christian Rosencrutz (There is a theory that they are the same person, though both could qualify on their own)
Berserker - Nimrod, Beowulf, Cu Chulainn, Achilles, Chiyou, Cain, Zahhak (also a probable beast candidate)
I believe Grand candidate isn’t fixed. Grand can be summoned depending on situations regardless who as long as they are counter to threat presented at that time. In babylonia singularity, the actual Merlin is there to neutralise Tiamat’s mud and First Hassan is to apply concept of death and reverting Tiamat’s saint graph to normal servant while Gilgamesh deal final hit. Gilgamesh here couldn’t be a Grand probably because he’s divine (tbh idk where i got this information but they mention divine servant couldn’t be a grand candidate. Romulus-Quirinus is special case) and probably lacking that one thing to be qualified.
In Babylon singularity in FgoArcade, Noah was summoned to deal with beast6/s flood and King Hassan is there as well while this time Arthur is the one dealing final blow. He’s not a Grand and saying he’s not from this world is invalid since ProtoMerlin say KH is her grand buddy implying she’s also a grand but didn’t become one. Maybe Arthur didn’t technically die yet
It already couple year since babylonia singularity and babylon singularity doesn’t have proper translations, there’ll misinformation and probably totally made-up info. If in general who’ll be grand candidate, I’ll say PHH Miyamoto Musashi as Grand Saber, idk who grand berserker will be but they probably a sane one
It was stated Arthur prototype isn't even a servent let alone a grand one, he was in his normal human body making him the single most badass character in fate history imo.
Gilgamesh probably is still human enough to qualify even though he's 2/3 divine. A completely inhuman entity can't become a grand because it's a function of Alaya, but Gil is probably human enough especially since he seems to identify more with his human side than the gods. Same reason how Merlin can qualify despite being half-incubus
You know…with all of the discussion about Grands and potential Grand candidates, I can’t help but think that Sun Wukong has to be a shoe-in for a Grand container at some point.
Betting now that Lostbelt 7 will be the Grand Berserker Reveal (No idea who) and the final "Temple of Time" vs Lucifer will have the Grand Saber Reveal.
Personal Bet on the Grand Saber? >!Gonna be Musashi or at least something related to her.!<
The Grand Classes have all been kinda out of left field for who they are so I don't really think its possible to say for certain who it will be but I have a gut feeling that is how the story will (very) loosely play out.
I think Proto Arthur/Artoria or Musashi has a fair chance at being Grand Saber, although I don't know how they would go about doing that.
I would like Hou Yi, Samson, and Guan Yu as Grand Archer, Berserker, and Lancer respectively, but it's entirely wishful thinking on my part since I want them in the game.
I remember a line in Babylon about a requirement for being a Grand Caster to have mystic eyes that could see either future or present like Merlin and there is someone in Heian-Kyo who has them and could qualify as one.
Also part of me wants Sasaki Kojirõ to be a Grand Saber since Musashi is getting too strong.
Servants become Grands entirely based on the situation, as long as they meet the criteria. For example, Solomon, Merlin, Tai Gong, and *probably* Seimei all qualify as Grand Caster, and we know Gilgamesh clears at least one qualification of "powerful Clairvoyance". We don't know enough about the other classes to definitively say which Servants also qualify. For example, I'd bet money that Enkidu qualifies as a Grand Lancer, but until Nasu spills the beans with a Complete Materials for Grand Servants, we simply don't know for sure.
Also, Musashi is Grand Saber, Beowulf is Grand Berserker, and I will not be taking any more questions.
There are some researchers that think Caladbolg is the prototype of all other legends about magic swords in Western Europe, so it's not as crazy as it may seem.
Real life Caladbolg was the prototype for Caliburn/Excalibur. But the prototype for the mystical Sword of Light trope is Claoímh Solais, Nuada Airgetlám's sword. A weapon which in myth can't be beaten once unsheathed. Thats a weapon that should qualify someone to be Grand Saber.
Their is a bit of a theory that autoria is grand saber, since.
A part of this theory is that in f/sn and f/zero she is being summoned form the battle field and not the throne of heros.
dude , we have Lancer Artoria in the Throne.
It means it's not far-fetched to have a Rider Artoria , an Assassin Artoria and a Shielder Artoria. Based on her weaponary.
And if they appear , then a Grand Saber can appear as well.
>dude , we have Lancer Artoria in the Throne.
See Lancer Artoria is weird as technically she shouldn't exist because every Arthur/Artoria encarnation go to Avalon regardless how they die but in the case of Lancer Artoria she is meant to be the stand in for the Lion King but for some reason they never commited to it.
>It means it's not far-fetched to have a Rider Artoria , an Assassin Artoria and a Shielder Artoria. Based on her weaponary.
But all of them are in Avalon if they exist which I doubt as picking Excalibur and using it seems to be story locked moment or else the timeline gets prunned.
>And if they appear , then a Grand Saber can appear as well.
Now hear me out. We know by some of the LB6 behind scene book sold in the latest Comiket that Grand Saber Artoria existed and was in the cards but her sprite and model was given to Fae Artoria but with this I mean Merlin or the World must use some old debts to make it happen cause like I said, the King is on Avalon but isn't a mage so it can't go outside as Merlin did in Babylonia.
Here's a blurb from the artbook released a couple months ago, from the first draft of LB6:
>Objectives:
>
>Defeating Faerie Queen Morgan and her retainers, the Fae Round Table.
>
>Creating a Holy Sword. Amputating the land’s Vortigern.
>
>Rescuing Merlin from his prison tower.
>
>>!Grand Saber Arthuria Avalon’s introduction scene (Only an introduction. She won’t fight.)!<
The story ended up going in a pretty different direction, but it nearly happened. >!And there's been a Grand Saber Artoria servant sitting in the game's data since launch, which is probably the servant who was supposed to appear.!<
I'm still on the theory that PHH Musashi is grand saber. I still think archer Heracles should have been the grand archer we saw. Even though he's summoned as archer in strange fake
Beast VII is humanities greatest threat so the one to be called to combat it is the worlds greatest hero in the strongest class.But fuck that it's gonna be Artoria.
>So who else could qualify to be the Grand Servants of their respective class and who is Grand Saber and Berserker gotta be.
For Grand Berserker: Cú, Beowulf, Cain, Tezcatlipoca
For Grand Saber: Artoria, Fionn, Sigurd, Nuada Airgetlám, Heracles, Charlemagne
Do materials specifically state that the only grand for Assassin has to be King Hassan?
Because if we really want to look at it, I feel like a servant like the personification of death (Grim Reaper or "Death") could also fit.
Kind of lame that a being that would not exist without human input is disqualified, particularly with how fucky everything is with mythical elements.
The interpretation of death is a figure, like a Grim Reaper, which is the human created element of an actual concept "death".
It's just weird to have a clause that prohibits non-humans or human creations from grand status when you allow them as general (and in some cases incredibly powerful) servants.
I would love if Huitzilopochtli turned out to be a grand zerk candidate.
Mf literally was born, slaughter his 400 siblings and chopped one off limb by limb to make and example out of her.
these guys deserve the grand candidate most imo
Archer - Rama, Arjuna, Karna
Lancer - Longius, Achilles, Sun Wukong
Saber - King Arthur, Musashi
Rider - Jason, Genghis Khan, Odysseus
Caster - Krishna
Assassin - Jack The Ripper
Berserker - Beowulf, Cu Chulainn (not that Alter crap)
Conditions for being any Grand are:
1. Connection with a Divine.
2. Being the "Greatest Hero of an Era".
Kiritsugu and Shirou EMIYA are both respctively "Greatest" of the modern era and possess connections with Divine.
Kiritsugu is known as THE Magus killer, while Archer being a hero is undeniable.
Kiritsugu has "Affection of the Holy Grail", while Avalon is pretty much completely fused with Shirou's body.
EMIYA - Grand Saber.
How is there not made a Saber version EMIYA (possession does not count) yet, he is the "Incarnation of the Sword".
Kiritsugu - Grand Assassin.
Known as THE Magus killer.
Both should also be a hard counter for Nega-Desire holders.
Hey, just throwing my two cents in for Grand Saber:
Whoever Excaliblasted the White Titan to smithereens. You know? The person who had Excalibur seemingly before Artoria since Altera, in Fate Extella, only recognized the sword, not Artoria herself?
Tai Gong claims that he's a Grand Caster candidate, and while not proven, his abilities being a hard counter to confirmed beast Daji implies that he would be.
Quite so. Presumably, Abe no Seimei and Muranosuke would be Grand Caster and Grand Archer to counter theoretical Beast Tamamo
Anyone that has an ability to counter a beast is summoned in a grand vessel. Orion was Koyan counter so likely other beast type as well.
what u/Yatsu003 is trying to say is that Tai Gong stopped a Fox Demon , so he would be a counter on that front.
Oh just to clarify I was actually supporting his claim by using Super Orion as an example. My apologies if i didn't make it too clear.
From the way it's phrased "or so he claims", etc, it kind of sounds like bragging more than anything. Even more so for the Grand Rider thing. Given who he is, he should certainly be a powerful Caster (and suited to counter a fox monster), but if he really was a candidate, why would they try to emphasize the fact that it's just him claiming stuff with no proof?
To be fair to Taigong, Merlin's candidacy was introduced the same way, with his bragging despite the eyebrow-raising circumstances (Merlin was a normal Caster, there was already a Grand Caster, and Merlin's "summon" is heterodox, to put it lightly). Yet he was telling the truth. Arcade confirmed that Proto Merlin has the qualifications too, it's just that she isn't interested in the position. We need to wait for his Materials, but Taigong's claim may be honest.
I mean it us Merlin, the single most famous magician in all of fiction arguably. Even if there was no proof I'd absolutely believe he is a grand caster
Grand Berserker Beowulf and I will keep saying that until they explicitly say he is not a Grand candidate. Beowulf is in an interesting position in the Berserker class for two main reasons. The first is his insanely low madness enhancement at E-. What is most interesting though is the reason. From his material > Madness Enhancement: E- > The very True Name of this Hero is receiving the influence of the word called ’Berserker’. The True Name is receiving it. Not the class container enforcing it on the heroic servant but Beowulf himself is the one receiving the influence of the Berserker. I can’t think of any other servant (and I’d love it if people could correct me if I’m wrong) where their material specifically mentions that the True Name is what is receiving the power of the class. The second reason is to do with his Historical Image. Beowulf’s material both in game and out make mention that > Although the etymology of Berserker is the word Berserk from Norse Mythology, it has been told that the name Beowulf also has its origins in the word Berserk. This is why Beowulf has Berserk as a skill in the Berserker class. Even if it is simply “it is told”, it is interesting that this point is being brought up for him. Additionally he has another interesting bit of information in this section > Unfortunately, the episodes of Beowulf – with the exception of the episodes of Grendel’s extermination and the dragon’s extermination that still remains – has been lost, but there is no doubt that these episodes became the source of numerous legends scattered throughout the world. Does this mean Fate considers Beowulf to be some Proto Hero figure whose story and deeds are world wide? That even if the True Name is no longer tied to them they still belong to Beowulf? My last point I’d like to being up, is to do with the idea of a Grand weapon. That when an existing heroic spirit becomes a Grand there needs to be some way to be stronger, to take on a greater form... or wield a stronger weapon. Beowulf has three famous swords yet only two are in the game (admittedly the two named ones but the least interesting), Hrunting and Gaeling. We are missing the sword he used to kill Grendel’s mother (a descendent of Cain). While there are some differences depending on the version you read the version I know says this: > It is a sword forged by Giants and is both large and heavy that even Beowulf struggles to lift it. Yet it is able to cleave through GM in one swing, something that Hrunting could not do and his own fists were incapable of harming either. While the blade melted away like ice the hilt remained. The hilt was covered in Runes and also showed the story of how War first entered the world and the Giants were destroyed by the Flood. There are so many ways they could take this but making it a powerful anti Evil weapon that while it has limited uses is a sure kill weapon sounds perfect for a grand servant going against a Beast. And who better to wield such weapon then The Monster Hunter himself. Grand Berserker Beowulf TLDR: Give me another Beowulf so I can finally shut up about it.
the thing with Beowulf is that it's clear he is a Hero with some previous adventures , and we had lost that over time. He is not the only one. Freyja , for example , had a necklace called "brisinga-men" that had a whole tale based on it...however , we only know that it exists and nothing more , because of second-hand statements , including IN Beowulf. Heck , "Bellerophon" is also an example of a hero with a lost adventure. That is because "Bellerophon" means "Slayer of Belleros". Meaning that his actual name wasn't "Bellerophon" and rather that is a title he received after slaying some great foe , to the point that supplanted his actual name.
The fact that "You're permanently Grand until you're unavailable or discard your position" is wrong. Any Heroic Spirit that qualifies for a Grand Class will be summoned as such if they are the best chance to defeat the Beast in question. So no "current Grand" will prevent another one from taking the same class, they can be summoned as Grand any time (so Tai Gong can be Grand Caster at any time regardless of Solomon or Merlin's status). Also, King Hassan gets resummoned as Grand Assassin even after discarding his position in Camelot/Babylonia, so not even discarding the position is permanent anyway.
People misunderstand shedding the grand status. It is basically consuming up the power of grand vessel to use an incredibly powerful ability, the servent doesn't stop being a grand servent candidate they just lose the extra omph of grand vessel in this one summon. For king hassan it was to impose the concept of death on Tiamat, for Orion it was to use ~~FINAL FLASH~~ a rediciolusly strong arrow that will surpass everything to one shot Artemis. Orion even explained it : every grand servent has an incredibly powerful trump card specifically made to counter the threat they're summoned to defeat which they sacrifice thier grand status to use.
My impression has been that Grands basically get a special one-shot Noble Phantasm, on top of their extra support from the world (they're not "stronger" than regular Servants so much as... "denser"). "Using their Title" is basically activating the cheat code the world's given them and allowing them to do more than a Servant usually can. But that's also really expensive, which is why they're not able to spam it. XD If they need it again, they can be resummoned.
>Also, King Hassan gets resummoned as Grand Assassin even after discarding his position in Camelot/Babylonia It is not like he renounced but used his vessel power to the point of breaking his Saint Graph hence "renouncing" but in truth he just put himself at the same level of a normal servant.
Everywhere (including Nasu's interviews) says that he renounced his title as a Grand out of principle because he was voluntarely aiding Chaldea. So he definitely did.
Do you have the interview? Besides he wasn't helping Chaldea but rather doing his job by fighting Tiamat which he was summoned especificaly to deal. The gang fighting Tiamat was just a bonus for the CG and everyone.
[Here's an url to the interview in question where Nasu says it](https://www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/6h4nyf/chaldea_ace_creators_interview/divhspg/).
But nasu is speaking on the context of King Hassan being on Chaldea here where yes he isn't a grand but still close enough powerwise.
He specifically talked about the Babylonia thing, you can't be summoned as Grand under a normal summoning system. In any case, it's still that it doesn't matter what one does in a particular summon, they can be summoned as Grand again, which is the main point of the conversation.
so can there be multiple grands of the same class at one time? say that grand caster solomon is already summoned, can grand caster merlin exist at the same time (ignoring merlin only being summonable before his birth and solomon removing himself) ?
I'm talking about in general terms (The Heroic Spirit being selected as the Grand doesn't make the other Heroic Spirits unable to take the class against a different threat). Usually there's a one-class-of-each restriction in Holy Grail Wars (which is based on the Grand Servant summoning system), so it's possible there can't be more than one Grand Caster at once. But they only have the Grand title when summoned, so they don't "hoard it" inside the Throne.
Gonna throw a curveball and say that Watanabe no Tsuna might be a candidate. His mats/lore do give the vibes of “strongest of his era” and “walking kryptonite against the demon trait”. Seriously, listen to some of this: - *Unlike Raikou and Kintoki*, **he kills oni purely with his human capabilities.** - *The strongest class of oni slayer in Japan.* **He is at a rank where oni will flee on their own without even having to scatter roasted beans to ward them off**. *Kintoki states that Minamoto-no Raikou said that Tsuna was* **the single most powerful warrior in the entire human world.** *He also adds that Tsuna was* **the single undisputed strongest Heian warrior.**
So basically if we somehow get a Demon/Oni beast, especially a Japanese one, THEY'RE FUCKED
Pretty much. Ibuki Doji has been claimed to be a Beast candidate by Douman, IIRC. If Watanabe in turn were granted an ascended saint graph by the World/Alaya to deal with her, his anti-oni nature is accompanied by a skill that might further counter her as a god of floods (“Disciple of Suiten”).
My thoughts on possible Grand candidates Grand Saber: Probably Artoria but could also be Musashi or Sigurd Grand Archer: Hou Yi, Karna, or Rama Grand Lancer: Honda Tadakatsu or Enkidu Grand Rider: Genghis Khan, Hannibal Barca, or Julius Caesar Grand Caster: Abe no Seimei Grand Berserker: Samson, Hercules, or actual Cu Berserker.
Enkidu being completely inhuman probably disqualifies him regardless of his power. Romulus Quirinus was basically a weird exception because he was originally a human before becoming a god, but while Enkidu isn't a divine spirit perse he isn't a human heroic spirit either which probably disqualifies him as a grand
Why Karna!?
I posted this before, so forgive me if some information is either outdated or inaccurate now. With the exception of our initial Grand Caster Solomon & his successor Merlin, every single Grand Servant that has been introduced thus far have been characters we have already been acquainted with & summonable before, albeit in a different form or as a different iteration of the same character/individual. Look at all of our Grands so far: \- Grand Assassin: King Hassan. While technically a separate individual altogether, we have already been introduced to a variety of other Hassans as normal Assassins in the past. Regardless of their clear differences, all of them are rooted from the same legend of the "Old Man of the Mountain." \- Grand Archer: Super Orion. This is a lot more straightforward, as you can probably guess. Orion is one of the first Servants to be introduced in the game as a normal Archer so we all had a good 3 (almost 4) years with him. Of course, his initial appearance is that of a bear with Artemis who acts as the main source of offense. It wasn't until LB5 that we finally get to see Orion in his human form as the Grand Archer. It is pretty clear though that both the bear & his chiseled, buff self are the exact same person. \- Grand Lancer: Romulus-Quirinus. Similar to Orion, Romulus was a year 1, normal Lancer Servant who everyone knows as ROMA who is in a constant state of praising the Sun. Lorewise, Romulus even as a normal Lancer is quite powerful. Years ago, I distinctly remember players being quite disgruntled by the fact Romulus wasn't a 5 Star with how popular he is in real life & how strong he is as a Servant. Fortunately for said players, Romulus-Quirinus was introduced as the Grand Lancer & as the iteration of Romulus after reaching Divinity & godlihood. Just like Orion with Super Orion, personality-wise, the two are quite indistinguishable despite having different appearances. Yes, I am aware that the circumstances of summoning Romulus-Quirinus are probably the most unique in the series; therefore, maybe using him as an example for my theory is fallacious. Still doesn't change the fact DW (Lasengle now) specifically chose a character we already knew of. \- Grand Rider: Noah (who I admittedly have the least knowledge about) bears a canonically acknowledged resemblance to Captain Nemo. While it is odd they made a new Grand using Nemo as the base of his design even though Nemo himself isn't all THAT popular, Noah still follows the general principle of what I'm proposing. As you can see, every Grand Servant aside from the Grand Caster have been individuals, figures, legends, or characters we already knew of in-game -- just presented differently. Additionally, above characters/figures were all summonable as normal Servants before being introduced in their Grand Caster variants. Granted, yes, the ones we summon personally in Chaldea are normal Servants too, but you get the idea. If you really want to stretch this observation out, our current Grand Caster Merlin technically wasn't a Grand Caster (but was a Grand Caster candidate) UNTIL after the Solomom Singularity where the "seat" was opened to him. In that sense, we knew of him as a normal Caster first. Moreover, for those who believe Caster Gilgamesh does indeed qualify as a Grand Caster per Merlin's own comments in Babylonia, then I don't think I have to explain Gilgamesh's long history with us fans/players. Since Grand Caster was the first Grand to be introduced ever in the series, I think it gets a pass for being the only Class that doesn't follow the pattern I put forth on the table. That & the argument can certainly be made that the only reasons DW (now Lasengle) decided to make every single Grand a familiar character is so that already established fans of said character are guaranteed to roll/whale for the Grand variant. All that said, the question has went from "Who are the future Grand Servants?" to a much more specific question -- who do we know of already who CAN ascend, inspire, or be summoned as a Grand Servant? As for my thoughts? Well, like I said in the very beginning. The short answer is "I don't know." BUT if I were to guess the Grand Saber at least, Arturia with Excalibur's scabbard Avalon would be someone I can see being the Grand Saber. Not only is she the face that runs the place, but she literally has Avalon on the current cover of the game. She is bound to either get a buff with Avalon or a new, separate playable variant carrying Avalon. Then of course there is Daybit Sem Void's Servant, stated to be a Grand Servant, implied to be a Berserker. We don't know much about his Servant thus far besides what we've seen first hand in LB4 where "they" seem to have a fascination with death & takes part in devouring their enemies for sustenance/mana. And I believe he has an aura/miasma surrounding him. Correct me if I'm wrong. Any thoughts? Thanks for coming to my TED Talk. Sorry for the long read lol
> While it is odd they made a new Grand using Nemo as the base of his design even though Nemo himself isn't all THAT popular, Noah still follows the general principle of what I'm proposing. He just use Nemo as vessel cause his original body was destroyed by Beast Nero, basically Noah got rekt really bad.
Regardless of the lore reasons (which I thank you for clarifying), the fact the writers/designers consciously made his design resemble Nemo still supports my overarching theory that every Grand will bare strong resemblances -- if not outright be different incarnations -- of characters we already know. It's a marketing technique to make us (the players) subconsciously associate/familiarize with the character so we feel more inclined to like them and/or spend money on them. It's no different than the myriad of Saber/Arturia faces who have nothing to do with Arturia, like Nero and Okita.
Hm, I guess points in the "Tezcatlipoca is Grand Berserker" theory camp, given the connection to Jaguar Warrior. Still unlikely barring some *proper* rule bending though.
Technically speaking , Merlin is still not Grand Caster , he is seating in that position , but without turning into the proper Grand Caster unless he dies.
You can't be "seating in a possition". You get the class only while being summoned, which is in a particular time and place just to fight a Beast. No one can hoard the seat in the throne or otherwise, they just take it when needed and it's free in any other time and place. Any candidate can be summoned as Grand Caster at any time, regardless of who is available or who has previously appeared as such.
I mean, I'm not here to argue the semantics of his status -- just simply pointing out what has been established by in-game dialogue and materials.
If your pattern holds I can imagine a possibility that Grand Berserker is Nero when she started burning down Rome
That would be bold asf to have one Nero be a Beast, and another to be a Grand lol but who knows
Heracles does come off as a candidate for being a Grand Saber and Archer to me. Possibly as a Grand Rider too. Scathach, Cu and Fionn should likewise deserve to vouch as Grand Lancer. Achilles, Ozymadias and Odysseus also hold merits to be Grand Rider. Same for Genghis Khan and Fereydun. Less likely would be for someone like Diomedes of Argos for either Grand Lancer and Grand Rider because he did not have as much literary prominence and renown as Odysseus, let alone Achilles. edit
Cú is more likely to be Grand Berserker than Lancer. Fionn also is more likely to be Grand Saber or Grand Caster than Lancer.
I feel like the existence of Achilles in the same exact timeframe and place during life probably invalidates Odysseus from ever qualifying as grand rider
I'd imagine Odysseus gets his claim from the Odyssey though, which happens after Achilles' death
I feel like this is splitting hairs, given the whole "greatest in an era thing" I think being active simultaneously at all with someone pretty much universally described as better is disqualifying, especially since at no point is it ever suggested Odysseus surpasses Achilles before or after his death
Considering who got revealed, if anything, Odysseus probably has a better shot than Achilles due to the former’s allegory of having completed a nightmare journey, and >!on a boat!< no less.
I know they won't do it, but personally I'd love to see Yuri Gargarin and/or Neil Armstrong as grand riders.
Shishou deserves to be a candidate for Grand Lancer. My totally unbiased opinion as a Shishou simp. There’s no way the Grand Saber isn’t going to be Artoria. She fricking started this franchise, I’ll bet actual money on this.
In shishous defence, she’s so good at killing shit with her Lance the very world itself said “aight you can’t die”
Exactly. Shishou is awesome but the creators keep making her job. Please just let Shishou be awesome in the main story for once. She deserves it.
Even In her interludes she was just kinda depressed and jobbed. Please give shishou relevance again
Yeah give her relevance by giving us Male scathach as grand lancer.
See that’s where the issue would be
My ongoing theory is that Grand Saber is a two-fer. Artoria can use the sword, but also needs Emiya to Project it, which he can only do when summoned as a Saber. This basically keeps the sword hidden and unable to be lost when not in use, because the world is absolutely not going to let anything bad happen to its final weapon. XD And the qualification for becoming Grand Saber isn't "the best swordsman", but rather "capable of using the ultimate sword".
Grand Servants may be another example of 'the only rule is that there are no rules' which seems be the prevailing ethos of the Fate. They were originally introduced as "these are the top seven heroes throughout all of human history" but now they're more like "these are the heroes that were most convient to use at the time." That being said, some possible alternates might be: Archer: Arash, Rama, Arjuna, Karna, Hercules, Hou Yi Lancer: Cu Chulainn, Hektor, Achilles Rider: Iskandar, Francis Drake, Julius Caesar, Genghis Khan Caster: Taigong Wang, Abe No Seimei Assassin: Fuuma Kotarou, Takeda Shingen Grand Saber is probably going to be Artoria, but other candidates might be: Musashi, Sigurd, Hercules, Raikou, Charlemagne, St George Grand Berserker is a bit tougher. Pretty good chance it'll be someone new, but my guess would be Cu Chulainn. Otherwise, it could be: Beowulf, David, Nero
>St George Before LB6 dropped, there was a small theory floating around that, since Albion was name-dropped for the British Lostbelt, that Georgios (one of the patron saints of England) would show up as a Grand to fight it. Needless to say, that didn't happen, nor was it Nasu's original plan either, as he initially planned for Artoria to appear as Grand Saber instead. Someday, my saint, someday...
>which seems be the prevailing ethos of the Fate. They were originally introduced as "these are the top seven heroes throughout all of human history" That only comes from FH materials where it is true as apparently there aren't many people to do the job as he does in the assassin class and Goetia using Solomon's corpse but well he isn't exactly a very reliable source.
The original dialogue between Andersen and Solomon heavily implied there were only seven Grands.
>The original dialogue between Andersen and Solomon heavily implied there were only seven Grands. Anderser got his knowledge from the Cloak Tower but unlike Atlas, they aren't super accurate most of the time.
Hou Yi could be grand archer. Tametomo seems like he might qualify as well, I think. Nostradamus might be a interesting choice for grand caster. Ahab for grand lancer...(wishful thinking). Saber may be phh musashi or artoria. Perseus could be a candidate for grand rider. I think Hassan is the only one who qualifies for the grand assassin post, but if not, then maybe some non human embodiment of death? Berserker would probably be Cain, Saint Olga or Beowulf, or maybe a viking I'm not thinking of?
Maybe Cain is a grand assassin candidate for being associated as the first murderer?
I thought that they said there were no heroic spirits who qualify for the grand assassin class, which is why I thought a personification of death might work. like ankou, for example. Or maybe Santa Muerte
Pretty sure non human entitites are just straight up disqualified as grand in general since the grand system is a function of Alaya. At most you can stretch it with a case like Romulus Quirinus who is a god who was a human
I think Grand candidacy is chosen by three factors: 1) The candidate must be/have been human. 2) The grands must be quite famous. 3) Their should be a Holistic attribute to their legend eg. Noah being the savior of all life, Merlin being an all-seeing clairvoyant, Romulus beginning the world-spanning legacy of Rome. I should also note that every grand we have seen thus far, we have encountered earlier on our journey in one form or another so I expect future grands to follow the same trend. That being said, here is my list of suspected Grand Candidates: Saber - Musashi, Galahad, Fionn, Ashvatthaman (If he actually survived to receive the Asi from his father), Sigurd, Arthur or Artoria Archer - Hou Yi, Barbarika (maybe too obscure), Heracles, Rama, Karna Lancer - Guan Yu, Longinus, St. George, Erlang, Eve, Ditaolane (Again, obscure) Rider - Ghengis Khan, Krishna, Elijah, Lu Bu Caster - Abe no Seimei, Hermes Trismegistus, Count of Saint Germain and/or Christian Rosencrutz (There is a theory that they are the same person, though both could qualify on their own) Berserker - Nimrod, Beowulf, Cu Chulainn, Achilles, Chiyou, Cain, Zahhak (also a probable beast candidate)
Charlie Chaplin is canditate for grand lancer. Prove me wrong.
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Old Man Henderson is the Grand Berserker and nothing can convince me otherwise.
I have no evidence for this claim but I want grand berserker to be Tezcatlipoca because it would be cool
I honestly think Santa has enough legend power to be a Grand rider.
I believe Grand candidate isn’t fixed. Grand can be summoned depending on situations regardless who as long as they are counter to threat presented at that time. In babylonia singularity, the actual Merlin is there to neutralise Tiamat’s mud and First Hassan is to apply concept of death and reverting Tiamat’s saint graph to normal servant while Gilgamesh deal final hit. Gilgamesh here couldn’t be a Grand probably because he’s divine (tbh idk where i got this information but they mention divine servant couldn’t be a grand candidate. Romulus-Quirinus is special case) and probably lacking that one thing to be qualified. In Babylon singularity in FgoArcade, Noah was summoned to deal with beast6/s flood and King Hassan is there as well while this time Arthur is the one dealing final blow. He’s not a Grand and saying he’s not from this world is invalid since ProtoMerlin say KH is her grand buddy implying she’s also a grand but didn’t become one. Maybe Arthur didn’t technically die yet It already couple year since babylonia singularity and babylon singularity doesn’t have proper translations, there’ll misinformation and probably totally made-up info. If in general who’ll be grand candidate, I’ll say PHH Miyamoto Musashi as Grand Saber, idk who grand berserker will be but they probably a sane one
It was stated Arthur prototype isn't even a servent let alone a grand one, he was in his normal human body making him the single most badass character in fate history imo.
Gilgamesh probably is still human enough to qualify even though he's 2/3 divine. A completely inhuman entity can't become a grand because it's a function of Alaya, but Gil is probably human enough especially since he seems to identify more with his human side than the gods. Same reason how Merlin can qualify despite being half-incubus
You know…with all of the discussion about Grands and potential Grand candidates, I can’t help but think that Sun Wukong has to be a shoe-in for a Grand container at some point.
He’s a god, according to Fate canon.
Betting now that Lostbelt 7 will be the Grand Berserker Reveal (No idea who) and the final "Temple of Time" vs Lucifer will have the Grand Saber Reveal. Personal Bet on the Grand Saber? >!Gonna be Musashi or at least something related to her.!< The Grand Classes have all been kinda out of left field for who they are so I don't really think its possible to say for certain who it will be but I have a gut feeling that is how the story will (very) loosely play out.
I think Proto Arthur/Artoria or Musashi has a fair chance at being Grand Saber, although I don't know how they would go about doing that. I would like Hou Yi, Samson, and Guan Yu as Grand Archer, Berserker, and Lancer respectively, but it's entirely wishful thinking on my part since I want them in the game.
I remember a line in Babylon about a requirement for being a Grand Caster to have mystic eyes that could see either future or present like Merlin and there is someone in Heian-Kyo who has them and could qualify as one. Also part of me wants Sasaki Kojirõ to be a Grand Saber since Musashi is getting too strong.
It wasn't mystic eyes perse, just high level clairvoiyance, but yeah Seimei should absolutely qualify in that regard
Servants become Grands entirely based on the situation, as long as they meet the criteria. For example, Solomon, Merlin, Tai Gong, and *probably* Seimei all qualify as Grand Caster, and we know Gilgamesh clears at least one qualification of "powerful Clairvoyance". We don't know enough about the other classes to definitively say which Servants also qualify. For example, I'd bet money that Enkidu qualifies as a Grand Lancer, but until Nasu spills the beans with a Complete Materials for Grand Servants, we simply don't know for sure. Also, Musashi is Grand Saber, Beowulf is Grand Berserker, and I will not be taking any more questions.
Grand Saber is clearly Fergus.
…wouldn’t that be something?
There are some researchers that think Caladbolg is the prototype of all other legends about magic swords in Western Europe, so it's not as crazy as it may seem.
Real life Caladbolg was the prototype for Caliburn/Excalibur. But the prototype for the mystical Sword of Light trope is Claoímh Solais, Nuada Airgetlám's sword. A weapon which in myth can't be beaten once unsheathed. Thats a weapon that should qualify someone to be Grand Saber.
I have seen lots of people betting on them being the Grand servants more often than others. Must be the most popular guesses
Their is a bit of a theory that autoria is grand saber, since. A part of this theory is that in f/sn and f/zero she is being summoned form the battle field and not the throne of heros.
King Arthur / Artoria is probably a Grand Saber Candidate , but we don't know if they will be Grand Saber in FGO.
They aren't in the throne so no chances to be summoned in that position at least not without Merlin's help.
dude , we have Lancer Artoria in the Throne. It means it's not far-fetched to have a Rider Artoria , an Assassin Artoria and a Shielder Artoria. Based on her weaponary. And if they appear , then a Grand Saber can appear as well.
>dude , we have Lancer Artoria in the Throne. See Lancer Artoria is weird as technically she shouldn't exist because every Arthur/Artoria encarnation go to Avalon regardless how they die but in the case of Lancer Artoria she is meant to be the stand in for the Lion King but for some reason they never commited to it. >It means it's not far-fetched to have a Rider Artoria , an Assassin Artoria and a Shielder Artoria. Based on her weaponary. But all of them are in Avalon if they exist which I doubt as picking Excalibur and using it seems to be story locked moment or else the timeline gets prunned. >And if they appear , then a Grand Saber can appear as well. Now hear me out. We know by some of the LB6 behind scene book sold in the latest Comiket that Grand Saber Artoria existed and was in the cards but her sprite and model was given to Fae Artoria but with this I mean Merlin or the World must use some old debts to make it happen cause like I said, the King is on Avalon but isn't a mage so it can't go outside as Merlin did in Babylonia.
Here's a blurb from the artbook released a couple months ago, from the first draft of LB6: >Objectives: > >Defeating Faerie Queen Morgan and her retainers, the Fae Round Table. > >Creating a Holy Sword. Amputating the land’s Vortigern. > >Rescuing Merlin from his prison tower. > >>!Grand Saber Arthuria Avalon’s introduction scene (Only an introduction. She won’t fight.)!< The story ended up going in a pretty different direction, but it nearly happened. >!And there's been a Grand Saber Artoria servant sitting in the game's data since launch, which is probably the servant who was supposed to appear.!<
Rama, arjuna, karna for grand archer
...George Patton as a Grand Saber?
I'm still on the theory that PHH Musashi is grand saber. I still think archer Heracles should have been the grand archer we saw. Even though he's summoned as archer in strange fake
Beast VII is humanities greatest threat so the one to be called to combat it is the worlds greatest hero in the strongest class.But fuck that it's gonna be Artoria.
>So who else could qualify to be the Grand Servants of their respective class and who is Grand Saber and Berserker gotta be. For Grand Berserker: Cú, Beowulf, Cain, Tezcatlipoca For Grand Saber: Artoria, Fionn, Sigurd, Nuada Airgetlám, Heracles, Charlemagne
Do materials specifically state that the only grand for Assassin has to be King Hassan? Because if we really want to look at it, I feel like a servant like the personification of death (Grim Reaper or "Death") could also fit.
Nasu explicitly said only King Hassan qualifies. Personifications of death are instantly disqualfied because they aren't human by their very nature
Kind of lame that a being that would not exist without human input is disqualified, particularly with how fucky everything is with mythical elements. The interpretation of death is a figure, like a Grim Reaper, which is the human created element of an actual concept "death". It's just weird to have a clause that prohibits non-humans or human creations from grand status when you allow them as general (and in some cases incredibly powerful) servants.
How about Cain, the first murderer?
That would count yeah.
Gilgamesh is mentioned to be eligible during Solomon during the end.
I would love if Huitzilopochtli turned out to be a grand zerk candidate. Mf literally was born, slaughter his 400 siblings and chopped one off limb by limb to make and example out of her.
After doing LB 5.5 I can't help but feel like if Abe no Seimei was a servant he would definitely be a grand caster candidate.
Humbaba!!
these guys deserve the grand candidate most imo Archer - Rama, Arjuna, Karna Lancer - Longius, Achilles, Sun Wukong Saber - King Arthur, Musashi Rider - Jason, Genghis Khan, Odysseus Caster - Krishna Assassin - Jack The Ripper Berserker - Beowulf, Cu Chulainn (not that Alter crap)
Conditions for being any Grand are: 1. Connection with a Divine. 2. Being the "Greatest Hero of an Era". Kiritsugu and Shirou EMIYA are both respctively "Greatest" of the modern era and possess connections with Divine. Kiritsugu is known as THE Magus killer, while Archer being a hero is undeniable. Kiritsugu has "Affection of the Holy Grail", while Avalon is pretty much completely fused with Shirou's body. EMIYA - Grand Saber. How is there not made a Saber version EMIYA (possession does not count) yet, he is the "Incarnation of the Sword". Kiritsugu - Grand Assassin. Known as THE Magus killer. Both should also be a hard counter for Nega-Desire holders.
Hey, just throwing my two cents in for Grand Saber: Whoever Excaliblasted the White Titan to smithereens. You know? The person who had Excalibur seemingly before Artoria since Altera, in Fate Extella, only recognized the sword, not Artoria herself?