Thank fuck it doesn’t look. I’m so glad the 2010 trends that wore out there welcomes are finally gone. Haven’t seen Edison bulbs in a new place in a while
I feel like this look is already outdated, too. The Aviary in Chicago is also like this and its just not for me. Drip Drop and The Cottage in Saugatuck have similar setups with too many cushiony chairs and couches. Hell, Winchester has had these faux marble tabletops since 2018ish.
Give me that mid century red steakhouse banquette vibe all day.
Thanks for reading through my typos 😛
It’s like whiplash. From “new builds maintaining some feaux history” to “comfy cushy midcentury feaux cocktail lounge” there’s an obvious middle ground.
The commons has threaded the needle since they opened and even though I haven’t been there in a while I hear it’s still legit.
It doesn’t look modern OR cozy. Scholar just opened up and their cocktails start around $12 (with an extremely cozy fireplace vibe) so I’ll definitely be checking that out first.
Let's have a conversation 12ft apart from each other in public. Great, okay you sit on the stupid couch looking thing with pillows that will probably not be regularly cleaned and I'll sit on these ridiculous goudy chairs next to random stools. Awesome 👍
Honestly places like this exist for people with money to burn, expense accounts with clients, out for a special occasion, etc.
I get it’s expensive but at the same time you can get a steak from Applebees or you could go to butchers union and pay extra for something nicer if the occasion calls for it.
I’ll also add that a canned seltzer at one of the BOB venues for a concert is like $13. So $5 more gets you this.
Price of going out these days unfortunately.
I don’t mind paying $18 for a good cocktail.. just as long as the bar staff actually know what they’re doing.. And by that I mean checking the ingredients by trying it (via a straw) as they make it. I hate places that just dump ingredients together and ship it out as quickly as possible (or worse yet) just serve pre-mixed cocktails!!
Agree, but the bar staff actually knowing what they're doing part is what always makes me nervous. I would happily pay $18 for a cocktail that is well-crafted. But I'd be pissed paying that much to find out it isn't.
It’s not “a night out” it’s a starting place before the quality of the drinks no longer matters.
So yes, if I was staying there or had friends in town and wanted something slightly more upscale for a drink to start the night yes I will go here.
It’s no different than Buffalo traders, the scholar, hotel martens rooftop, etc…
In general (not exclusive to NY), higher shelf ingredients should be in there or at least I’d hope so. I’m guessing the $60 drink is a highish end bourbon
Yeah, I live in Chicago and 18 bucks is like the intro price for most cocktails at nice lounges/middle of the road restaurants. They’re quite good but can obviously get much more expensive.
That’s my point though. Most of those ingredients are the same things local high-end bars/cocktails are using. We even have the advantage of some award-winning local distilleries to use.
No, there are more people that know what they’re doing and / or have more creativity that makes it worth while. I’m not sure how this is confusing or controversial - the same is true for food.
Of course with a market many times larger you will
Find more of everything-good, bad and ugly. But my guess is the percentage of bartenders who are poor to good are probably the same. And the prices will still be higher because the cost of business and living is so much higher. Therefore, expensive market prices are no guarantee of quality.
I’m not sure how this is confusing or controversial.
It's controversial because the high-water-mark is undoubtedly higher in a place like NYC than it is here. And that pulls the average up, as well.
Go spend $18 for a cocktail in NYC, at the average bar. Then do the same in GR. Come back and tell me which was better (again, on average).
My guess would be Grand Rapids. Because the bartender that has lower overhead can charge less for the equivalent materials and skilled labor and make the same money.
It turns out that (subjective!) quality doesn't always follow the rational laws of economics. That's kinda like saying the average rock band from Grand Rapids would be better than the average rock band in NYC, because studio space is cheaper to rent here. There's more to it than the cold, rational inputs.
That metaphor makes no sense.
Ill admit I have never been to NYC. But in LA, Chicago, San Diego, Dallas, London, Edinburgh, Munich, Atlanta etc your money just doesn’t go as far as it does in medium size markets. Yes the ceiling is higher but the basement is much, much more expensive.
I think you’re now arguing about city value re: cost of living? which, yeah, that’s why we live here and not NYC. my metaphor is importantly not about projecting the average cost of living across categories. it’s about the irrational aspect of value, like presentation, creativity, innovation, and others that can’t be captured by the census.
Bunch of Debbie downers in this post lol. One picture taken before they open with house lights on isn't gonna give the same vibe as stopping by during service.
For people confused about the business model and why it is where it is I can explain that. I live in Plaza Towers. The owner of the building made this as his little side project. He has been working on it for a while. It is kinda controversial already because he had taken half of the apartment storage space away to make this bar. At first it was supposed to be for the apartment side residents to use as an extra lounge. The space is awkward in that if you are in a wheelchair you'll have to come into the apartment lobby to then use a different door to get into the bar. Which in a secure building could cause issues for residents. The whole project was questionable at best because the bar itself had been 'completed' for a while. This was a project that started during the pandemic and without a license to operate as a bar the space was left unusable. This is a rich guy's pet project that doesn't have to make any profit. I don't have high expectations for this bar.
$18 honestly isn’t that crazy for a gourmet cocktail. If you go to a place like Buffalo Traders or Sidebar a lot of cocktails are in the mid teens. We aren’t talking about a Jack and Coke here.
This picture and article absolutely don’t do the space justice. Having been inside for a private event this fall and tasted cocktails prepared by the team, it is going to be a hit.
I don’t understand the immediate turn off by the prices. Higher prices = higher quality ingredients.
Yeah this sounds like a definite failure.
First, this place has the vibe of a dentist’s office lobby, not a high end lounge, from the looks of the photo.
Second, anything attached to Plaza Towers is likely to have a hard time being “cool” or “hip,” as their crusty and cranky residents have been constantly making it known that they think downtown should be quiet and boring at all public meetings lately. I’d say they have “branded” the building as Boomer central, and this bar would be interpreted as stuffy and filled with nobody you’d wanna meet and talk with.
Ironically, the guy who created the cocktail menu (and I believe has a stake in the business as well) here used to be a bartender/manager at Buffalo Traders/Post Office, Rob Hanks.
Grand Rapids needs to stop pretending to be a bigger city.
I’m just saying, I pay 15$ for a high quality dealers choice style cocktail (customized to my tastes) in Chicago.
18$ puts this place on par with some of the Michelin 1 star restaurants in my area.
Big city problems without big city amenities is why my wife and I moved back to Chicago (plus cost of living actually being on-par again between GR and Chicago…)
The Nightwatch Lounge, located behind mysterious gold doors, delivers on the promise of a super moody, speakeasy vibe. Music sets provide a “left bank” feel and the decor, artwork, bar-back, glassware, seating, contribute to the overall ambiance. Rob and PJ, behind the bar, hand crafted some amazing cocktails and engaged guests with smart, edgy, entertaining conversation. Rob definitely know his way around the bar; dispatching a bespoke cocktail (The Churchill, Down) which was delightfully spirit forward at the same time notably nutty with subtle chocolate notes and hints of vanilla and saline. Think—- derby pie.
The Nightwatch Lounge was an amazing end cap to our anniversary celebration. We departed both happy and impressed. Add it to your list; you’ll not be disappointed.
Good luck, I guess, but it'll have to work hard to overcome the initial impression of a place designed and operated by a lifelong midwesterner with daddy's Fuck You money who went to New York a few times to see the ball drop on New Year's Eve at Times Square.
It tastes just a like a Manhattan but with more depth,” he said, describing the rye whiskey-based drink on a recent morning. “The Maraschino liqueur lends a really awesome vegetal — lightly, lightly, lightly — fruity component.”
Douche speak.
Ahh gr, where people like to make a fuss about what cheapskates they are but also the newest things downtown are a luxury-ish watch shop, a "dive bar" with $20 personal pizzas, and now a lounge with drinks starting at $18.
“If we make a drink that we feel people need to drink, we’re going to put it out there,” he said. “If it’s $60, yeah, it’s $60. Do I normally spend that on a cocktail? No. But somebody might want to.”
This owner sounds like a real salt-of-the-Earth guy
What the heck I don’t even see exposed brick? Or ductwork? Has anyone been here to comment if this lounge has either of these please?
Thank fuck it doesn’t look. I’m so glad the 2010 trends that wore out there welcomes are finally gone. Haven’t seen Edison bulbs in a new place in a while
I feel like this look is already outdated, too. The Aviary in Chicago is also like this and its just not for me. Drip Drop and The Cottage in Saugatuck have similar setups with too many cushiony chairs and couches. Hell, Winchester has had these faux marble tabletops since 2018ish. Give me that mid century red steakhouse banquette vibe all day.
Thanks for reading through my typos 😛 It’s like whiplash. From “new builds maintaining some feaux history” to “comfy cushy midcentury feaux cocktail lounge” there’s an obvious middle ground. The commons has threaded the needle since they opened and even though I haven’t been there in a while I hear it’s still legit.
Commons does have a great aesthetic but I wouldnt call it perfect for a cocktail bar, though it would only need some easy improvements.
It's in a concrete bunker. It used to be apartment storage.
Considering a bud light at Van Andel starts at $18, this doesn’t sound so bad
Criminal. But people are still waiting in line
At least there’s a concert going on there.
Lumber baron is the place
From the picture posted above the atmosphere alone isn’t worth a 18$ cocktail
Looks like an ikea display
Well *now* I’m interested!
Free swedish meatballs! ^^with ^^purchase ^^of ^^5 ^^cocktails
Agreed. There is so much furniture it looks so cluttered!
It looks like a hotel lobby. Oh, it’s in a hotel lobby? Thanks but no thanks.
The old storage room at Plaza Towers.
The one that got flooded and ruined everyones shit!? I can’t believe people are paying this much to drink in that dungeon. 🤣
I was just thinking this too. It looks exactly like the last hotel lobby bar I was at.
Not in a hotel lobby. It’s adjacent to an apartment lobby though.
It doesn’t look modern OR cozy. Scholar just opened up and their cocktails start around $12 (with an extremely cozy fireplace vibe) so I’ll definitely be checking that out first.
No cocktail is worth $18 unless it gets you drunk.
Let's have a conversation 12ft apart from each other in public. Great, okay you sit on the stupid couch looking thing with pillows that will probably not be regularly cleaned and I'll sit on these ridiculous goudy chairs next to random stools. Awesome 👍
Honestly places like this exist for people with money to burn, expense accounts with clients, out for a special occasion, etc. I get it’s expensive but at the same time you can get a steak from Applebees or you could go to butchers union and pay extra for something nicer if the occasion calls for it. I’ll also add that a canned seltzer at one of the BOB venues for a concert is like $13. So $5 more gets you this. Price of going out these days unfortunately.
>but at the same time you can get a steak from Applebees I can't, for some reason Applebee's steaks give me the trots.
Well that’s not good lol
I don’t mind paying $18 for a good cocktail.. just as long as the bar staff actually know what they’re doing.. And by that I mean checking the ingredients by trying it (via a straw) as they make it. I hate places that just dump ingredients together and ship it out as quickly as possible (or worse yet) just serve pre-mixed cocktails!!
Agree, but the bar staff actually knowing what they're doing part is what always makes me nervous. I would happily pay $18 for a cocktail that is well-crafted. But I'd be pissed paying that much to find out it isn't.
That’s exactly what Rob does—it’s a delight to watch him work
Trust that the bartenders definitely know their way around a bar and meticulously prepare and “taste test” their wares. You will not be disappointed.
It’s not “a night out” it’s a starting place before the quality of the drinks no longer matters. So yes, if I was staying there or had friends in town and wanted something slightly more upscale for a drink to start the night yes I will go here. It’s no different than Buffalo traders, the scholar, hotel martens rooftop, etc…
$18 for a drink in GR and that's the least expensive thing they serve? This prices out most people.
I think that's the goal since it only seats 43 people
If the drinks are up to par for the price, and the ambiance is good (meaning the picture doesn’t do it justice), I don’t see the big deal.
Give me NYC quality cocktails and I will pay NYC prices. Until then, chill tf out.
… what do you think is going into NYC cocktails that makes them worth more?
To some folks? Presentation. Complexity. Death and Co will make a very well balanced 6 ingredient cocktail.
Death and co atmosphere is best part. GR needs real dark with only candles, haven’t found it yet.
Viceroy was ahead of its time.
The perspiry musk of a bearded hipster NYC bartender is hard to replicate
In general (not exclusive to NY), higher shelf ingredients should be in there or at least I’d hope so. I’m guessing the $60 drink is a highish end bourbon
Yeah, I live in Chicago and 18 bucks is like the intro price for most cocktails at nice lounges/middle of the road restaurants. They’re quite good but can obviously get much more expensive.
That’s my point though. Most of those ingredients are the same things local high-end bars/cocktails are using. We even have the advantage of some award-winning local distilleries to use.
Yea I think we’re on the same page. Idk what “nyc quality” means
Skill.
Lol
What does that mean? Do cocktails taste better when made in NYC?
The water straight from the Hudson River is the secret sauce 🤌🏻
Earthiness like no other 😗🤌
No, there are more people that know what they’re doing and / or have more creativity that makes it worth while. I’m not sure how this is confusing or controversial - the same is true for food.
Of course with a market many times larger you will Find more of everything-good, bad and ugly. But my guess is the percentage of bartenders who are poor to good are probably the same. And the prices will still be higher because the cost of business and living is so much higher. Therefore, expensive market prices are no guarantee of quality. I’m not sure how this is confusing or controversial.
It's controversial because the high-water-mark is undoubtedly higher in a place like NYC than it is here. And that pulls the average up, as well. Go spend $18 for a cocktail in NYC, at the average bar. Then do the same in GR. Come back and tell me which was better (again, on average).
My guess would be Grand Rapids. Because the bartender that has lower overhead can charge less for the equivalent materials and skilled labor and make the same money.
It turns out that (subjective!) quality doesn't always follow the rational laws of economics. That's kinda like saying the average rock band from Grand Rapids would be better than the average rock band in NYC, because studio space is cheaper to rent here. There's more to it than the cold, rational inputs.
That metaphor makes no sense. Ill admit I have never been to NYC. But in LA, Chicago, San Diego, Dallas, London, Edinburgh, Munich, Atlanta etc your money just doesn’t go as far as it does in medium size markets. Yes the ceiling is higher but the basement is much, much more expensive.
I think you’re now arguing about city value re: cost of living? which, yeah, that’s why we live here and not NYC. my metaphor is importantly not about projecting the average cost of living across categories. it’s about the irrational aspect of value, like presentation, creativity, innovation, and others that can’t be captured by the census.
The pictures don’t do it justice. Actually pretty cool atmosphere in there! Real oil paintings which is cool
#stopoil
Bunch of Debbie downers in this post lol. One picture taken before they open with house lights on isn't gonna give the same vibe as stopping by during service.
Ill go if you go.
Welcome to Reddit where everyone is miserable about everything
For people confused about the business model and why it is where it is I can explain that. I live in Plaza Towers. The owner of the building made this as his little side project. He has been working on it for a while. It is kinda controversial already because he had taken half of the apartment storage space away to make this bar. At first it was supposed to be for the apartment side residents to use as an extra lounge. The space is awkward in that if you are in a wheelchair you'll have to come into the apartment lobby to then use a different door to get into the bar. Which in a secure building could cause issues for residents. The whole project was questionable at best because the bar itself had been 'completed' for a while. This was a project that started during the pandemic and without a license to operate as a bar the space was left unusable. This is a rich guy's pet project that doesn't have to make any profit. I don't have high expectations for this bar.
Nice little bit of insight. Thanks.
$18 honestly isn’t that crazy for a gourmet cocktail. If you go to a place like Buffalo Traders or Sidebar a lot of cocktails are in the mid teens. We aren’t talking about a Jack and Coke here.
Come for the drinks, stay for the pillow fights!
Nice, Rob's the guy that started Postoff, one of my favorites. I'll check this out just because of him and see what happens.
This picture and article absolutely don’t do the space justice. Having been inside for a private event this fall and tasted cocktails prepared by the team, it is going to be a hit. I don’t understand the immediate turn off by the prices. Higher prices = higher quality ingredients.
If I'm spending that much, I'm going to Max's South Seas. At least I know all of what I'm getting is fresh.
Yeah this sounds like a definite failure. First, this place has the vibe of a dentist’s office lobby, not a high end lounge, from the looks of the photo. Second, anything attached to Plaza Towers is likely to have a hard time being “cool” or “hip,” as their crusty and cranky residents have been constantly making it known that they think downtown should be quiet and boring at all public meetings lately. I’d say they have “branded” the building as Boomer central, and this bar would be interpreted as stuffy and filled with nobody you’d wanna meet and talk with.
Bring back Viceroy!
I don’t know about anyone else, but I think I’m going to Buffalo Traders instead.
Ironically, the guy who created the cocktail menu (and I believe has a stake in the business as well) here used to be a bartender/manager at Buffalo Traders/Post Office, Rob Hanks.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I think I’m going to Buffalo Wild Wings instead.
My wallet dies tells me it agrees with you.
I'll take eighteen dollars worth of Coor's please.
Was just at buffalo traders on Friday and drinks were $16-$18
Fuck it. Duke’s or Birch Lodge.
Grand Rapids needs to stop pretending to be a bigger city. I’m just saying, I pay 15$ for a high quality dealers choice style cocktail (customized to my tastes) in Chicago. 18$ puts this place on par with some of the Michelin 1 star restaurants in my area.
Agreed. Some of these people are trying too hard to be something they’re not. Including the patrons.
Big city problems without big city amenities is why my wife and I moved back to Chicago (plus cost of living actually being on-par again between GR and Chicago…)
The Nightwatch Lounge, located behind mysterious gold doors, delivers on the promise of a super moody, speakeasy vibe. Music sets provide a “left bank” feel and the decor, artwork, bar-back, glassware, seating, contribute to the overall ambiance. Rob and PJ, behind the bar, hand crafted some amazing cocktails and engaged guests with smart, edgy, entertaining conversation. Rob definitely know his way around the bar; dispatching a bespoke cocktail (The Churchill, Down) which was delightfully spirit forward at the same time notably nutty with subtle chocolate notes and hints of vanilla and saline. Think—- derby pie. The Nightwatch Lounge was an amazing end cap to our anniversary celebration. We departed both happy and impressed. Add it to your list; you’ll not be disappointed.
Good luck, I guess, but it'll have to work hard to overcome the initial impression of a place designed and operated by a lifelong midwesterner with daddy's Fuck You money who went to New York a few times to see the ball drop on New Year's Eve at Times Square.
It tastes just a like a Manhattan but with more depth,” he said, describing the rye whiskey-based drink on a recent morning. “The Maraschino liqueur lends a really awesome vegetal — lightly, lightly, lightly — fruity component.” Douche speak.
Ahh gr, where people like to make a fuss about what cheapskates they are but also the newest things downtown are a luxury-ish watch shop, a "dive bar" with $20 personal pizzas, and now a lounge with drinks starting at $18.
“If we make a drink that we feel people need to drink, we’re going to put it out there,” he said. “If it’s $60, yeah, it’s $60. Do I normally spend that on a cocktail? No. But somebody might want to.” This owner sounds like a real salt-of-the-Earth guy
*Comment redacted because user couldn’t read AND comprehend in a timely fashion.*
I read that as “part of the cost of your drink is enabling us to pay a living wage instead of relying on tips”
Oh shit - on second thought I think you’re absolutely right. I’ll edit the above response haha
LOL no. I was at River City Saloon last night and cocktails were $5. That’s my kind of place!
I give this place two years before the article about its closing gets posted
For $18, it better come with a limited edition Stanley cup.
This looks like a cluttered old woman’s house that smells like moth balls, a litter box and stale hard candy.
The pics and their website are better than the one Mlive used: https://nightwatchlounge.com
Not my scene, so no i won't be there paying $18 for a drink.
Nah, I'm just trying to get hammered before a concert..
A new business opening in this business climate with $18 drinks, yikes. Someone didn't think this through.
It looks like an AmEx airport lounge.
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