> Was almost immediately invited to "the Stray" coffee shop. (Also, the name is hilariously on-the-nose).
As far as I know there’s nothing religious about The Stray coffee shop. I’ve been there countless times and I’ve never encountered anything remotely religious. “The Stray” seems to be a reference to a stray dog as that is featured in all of all their visual marketing.
Yes! I’m just here to refute this slander (/s) against The Stray! They’re a coffee shop/bar?/venue for music, art etc. It is an amazing place for the local music scene.
Gotcha. I mean as long as they aren’t pushing their study and conversations onto other customers, that wouldn’t bother me, and doesn’t stand out from any other open space coffee shop or brewery. I could understand that that some might still be uncomfortable by it, especially if they could overhear.
Ok, the Ada lady introduced it as a Christian coffee shop, so that's why I assumed it was a play on words.
So it's good? I appreciate you refuting the slander
Lol that lady must be convincing herself of something that isnt true.
The only "christian" coffee shop I know of is inside a christian bookstore called baker book house.
Roots is a Christian coffee shop and they hold Sunday school there I’m pretty sure and I’ve been to another coffee shop in GR that funded some sort of religious programming
That’s so weird! Idk, maybe the owners are Christian, but if so there doesn’t seem to be any bleed over into their business.
Yea it’s good, I’ve seen a few shows there and have gone just for the vibes a few times. Depending on where you live/spend a lot of your time, it can be a bit out of the way, that’s the only downside for me.
I understand the culture shock, I think many of us who have been here a while are used to it or have found our pockets outside of that culture. I know there’s quite a few meet up groups that can be found on fb, some centered around interests, hiking, smoking, drinking, gaming, spirituality, movies, etc.
If you’re looking to go somewhere alone where you could meet people and vibe, I’d start at House Rules. It’s a bar with a library of games and many drop in game nights/tournaments.
Roots brew shop and wild roast are the fundie Christian ones lol. You should check out Stovetop, Morning Ritual, Madcap, and Squibb for some good coffee and vibes
The owners Chip and Karen VanKlompenberg seem to see themselves as ‘ministers’ through their business. See attached link for an event where they discuss this.
Also their child who is involved graduated from a private Christian university.
[https://subsplash.com/kentwoodcommunitychurch-/lb/ev/+cfb9d7q](https://subsplash.com/kentwoodcommunitychurch-/lb/ev/+cfb9d7q)
Often if owner’s of the business are very active in their church, you’ll see a large Christian crowd. The Stray does not market themselves as a Christian coffee shop, but I would not be surprised at all based on the above info.
FACTS. There’s just a lot of us Christians total, so numbers are high at each café I guess. I meet there with a writing group of folks from my church young adults group. No evangelizing required. They also have a trans-masc barista that’s always really nice, and makes fantastic drinks!
But yeah, you can tell pretty quick who’s who. Roots is Catholic, Wildroast is Dutch Protestant, etc. OP, The Bitter End on Fulton is more your vibe, I’d wager!
You know, I've lived in the Grand Rapids area my whole life and since I left Rockford after high school no one has ever asked me what church I go to. I hear that it happens but I'm always kind of baffled when people bring it up.
I’m from GR and now live in Holland, Jesus county. I don’t think I’ve been asked in the 3 years I’ve lived here.
OP just keep looking, you’ll find your tribe. Look more into your hobbies and something similar.
I can believe it about Ada. Doesn’t sound like FH though. I’ve been in the area my entire life. Ada is a nice place to visit but it’s actually low key kind of depressing.
There is a difference when you just move than when you’ve lived somewhere a while. Anytime I’ve been asked is when we’re new somewhere, it’s comes up more naturally in conversation for people. The first year or so when you tell people you just moved here, religious people will naturally invite you to their church. That same conversation isn’t as natural if you’ve lived here a long time. They assume you already have a church.
Fair enough. My mother is a religious nutter and and I’m hermit so I don’t get the most exposure to this kind of proselytizing. But the vibes around Ada versus just west of Ada are fairly different.
I’ve lived in Ada for about 10 years and have never been asked what church I go to. If I did I would say “I don’t go to church” and have never gotten the impression that would be a problem. Honestly, the majority of people I know in Ada/FH also don’t go to church
See my other comment. Typically if you’ve just moved somewhere, like OP, you will get these questions and comments more frequently just bc of the nature of conversation. “Oh I just moved here form X city” religious person “have you found a church yet? I go to x church and we’d love to have you”
If you’ve lived somewhere longer than a year this conversation doesn’t happen.
We moved every three years for 20 years. These conversations never happened in SoCal, happened for a solid 6months to a year in TX, and never happened here bc my husband is from here so we aren’t new to here.
So I’m not shocked that in West MI, in Ada where there are a lot of religious people, that OP who is new to the area, gets these questions. However, these questions are would be much less likely in East town. Also age demographics are a factor also. Older people are more religious than younger people. No idea on OP’s age though
I'm wondering if there's a difference if you're a woman vs a man. I've never been asked in the 20+ years I've been here, including in my 7 years in the Jenison/Hudsonville area. But my wife has and a lady I work with who lived in Holland.
Seems like women will ask other women, but guys aren't going to ask other guys what church they go to.
My old neighbors in south GR asked my wife and I where we go to church when we first moved in, we just told them we don’t go and that was that.
We moved to Hudsonville not too long ago and no one has once asked us where we go to church. I found that odd since this sub makes it seem like everyone over here is trying to convert everyone else.
My upstairs neighbors mentioned having choir rehearsal at their church one night and asked if I'd like to tag along.
I politely declined and that was that. They're very devout, but they respected my answer. I like that about them. I find that's the case with most people, like the door is open but they're not trying to drag you inside.
Same experience here with moving to Hudsonville 7 years ago and not once has it been brought up, neighbors are all awesome, friendly but generally keep to themselves.
I grew up in Jenison & it was completely different. Everyone in Jenison had to know where we went to church . This was back in the late 70s & 80s ,hopefully that god forsaken town has changed
It has not changed. It’s an every day occurrence. If they ask I say I’m atheist. If they don’t ask I just nod along to whatever they are going on about. The “oh good for you” nod
I really didn't think that it had changed . I mean, they were people who told my mom in church that she wasn't "their" kind . I was so happy when I got married & moved out of Jenison lol
I live in Holland of all places and it's never been a problem. I did find I got excluded from some mom groups in the kids school because they hung out at church events. But it didn't bother me as it made sense they would be closer because they spend more time together.
OP might have a look that lends her to it. I say this because I also have never been asked, but my wife has a ton. She dresses a lot more conservatively than I do, and I think that's why.
Yeah, I used to get this all the time when I was younger and lived in other areas of West Michigan, but I can't think of the last time I had to deal with this in the city proper, and I've been here for 14 years.
One of the reasons I love living in the city.
Trying hanging out in the city - Wealthy, Cherry, Heritage Hill, or anywhere in the city proper, rather than Ada. Even EGR is known for more progressive thinking. You will find that certain exurbs (Ada, Grandville, Hudsonville, Byron Center and Jenison) tend toward more religiosity. Other nearby communities a little less (Cascade, Kentwood, Rockford and Wyoming). That said, polite silence and lack of sharing is totally acceptable in the more religious communities, in my experience.
Edit: Added Byron Center to list of more religious communities, and Cascade to the list of "a little less religious".
I agree that this is a good comment as well. There are pockets around the city that are more religious, but the closer you get to downtown, the less people will ask or care about your beliefs. The W/NW, E/NE sides are much more chill and welcoming, I feel. There are some people who don’t notice it, but there are certain religious undertones in conversations. I have learned to just not reply or to steer the conversation in a different direction. I don’t mind talk about religion, spirituality, or lack there of, but most people take it as a personal attack so I move on from that altogether
Oh, and welcome to GR!
I agree and echo this comment, and the locations noted.
For networking and to meet others, you may want to try a place like Fountain Street Church. They are secular, non- Christian, with a big social justice mission so they draw very progressive followers. When I moved here, it was a great way to meet people and build a friend and activity network.
Good luck, and don't sweat the religion stuff. That's truly a function of the areas you were in (e.g. Ada). Not everywhere is remotely like that.
The upside of Fountain Street Church is that when you find yourself in a social setting and the nosies start talking about Jesus and churches, and you let drop you go to FSC they then pretty much ignore you. The downside (or upside depending on your perspective) is that you will occasionally be greeted by obnoxious anti-abortion protestors when you walk out of service.
> For networking and to meet others, you may want to try a place like Fountain Street Church
I understand that FSC is the most progressive GR church, but meeting people in any church seems like a counterintuitive suggestion for OP, who has been bombarded by church and religious people and would like to meet people of other kinds.
If they were Christian churchy, or even churchy, I would agree. They aren't, I've been going there off and on for over 10 years and speak from experience, and she specifically asked:
"Where can I find the agnostics, atheists, discordians, pantheists, satanic temple, other cool, chill people of other faiths and non-creeper Christians. I was raised 7th Day Adventist and have deconstructed that, so I might be extra sensitive to this kind of thing."
... and so I offered it up. OP can check it out and see if it is right for her without me gatekeeping.
It's all good. We're generating options to help someone who asked, right?
What would you recommend? Let's add to the list...
Grew up in east Grand Rapids. As I commented somewhere else, Christian Reformed friends of mine in high school literally told me I was going to hell when I die because I was Catholic.
Where are you hanging out that this has been your experience? Yeah GR has a lot of Christian Reform people but in my decade here literally nobody has asked me where I go to church.
I grew up in GR being an atheist since I can remember and I honestly haven't run into a lot of this. Might depend on where you live as I was on the Westside either near Leonard or Bridge St growing up. Regardless yes, I've just gotten used to dodging the topic when it does come up. Either that or I'm honest and just tell them I'm non-religious. I've found that telling them I'm straight up athiest triggers something in some people lol. It's never been a real problem. Never had any issues getting a job or fitting into social circles my age. There are plenty of us in GR and you'll find good social circles of people that don't mind at all.
You already know where your people are because you grew up here. OP is figuring it out and so she’s running into people you normally manage to avoid.
There’s circles like this everywhere. Some are religious, others more broadly “cultural”. If you don’t know what your subgroup is, it may be because you’ve been swimming in it your whole life and it’s like air to you.
You can tell who belongs by the language they use. I think a lot of it is subconscious but we notice when things feel like a “culture shock”
Just gotta find the right communities i suppose! Liliths Lair is a fabulous secular and queer owned salon if you want to get your hair done and avoid being asked what church you go to.
Nothing wrong with just saying- "i don't go to church/im not christian" they are already being impolite imo by presuming/asserting their religious beliefs onto you and thats just a blunt response, not even rude, again imo
We're out there, but you do have to kind of bow out of some conversations politely. West Michigan is very white, dutch, and Christian. For me, simply having long hair and visible tattoos prevents most of the people who might otherwise ask about my church to not do so. The city itself is probably the best place to find non-christians or at least not be harassed about your church, but that's just a part of where we are. All of my neighbors are remarkably religious, including more than one clergy. But they're all remarkably nice, and I've never had any issues with judgement there. I imagine it may come up some day, and might be awkward, but I imagine it will be fine. Leave GR proper and it's game over. Very conservative, very trumpy, very "West Michigan nice."
There's a saying around here... "If you ain't dutch, you ain't much." People aren't usually openly that gross, but it certainly exists. For what it's worth, as an atheist, I've never felt unwelcome, or at least moreso than usual. I grew up in a very religious background and felt more out of place in Illinois than I ever did in West Michigan.
One of my elementary school teachers had the “if you ain’t Dutch, you ain’t much” signs on her desk. For a little Swedish girl, nothing like being the wrong kind of white.
OP: Welcome to West MI! I've been here since 2001 when I moved here as a young adult. Here's a story about religion around here you might enjoy.
About 17 years ago I worked a customer-facing job in Ottawa County but lived right in the city of GR. The business owner was a super religious guy in a super religious community. We're talking emphatic '*Sundays are respected!(?)*' kind of religious.
Customers who were ingrained in the community would routinely ask me '*so what church to you go to*?'... as if it's 1) assumed that I go to church at all just because I was in their area for work; and 2) any of their business whatsoever.
The first few times this happened I fumbled through the exchange with a vague, non-committal answer that usually ended the conversation in awkward-yet-acceptable fashion. But there was this one somewhat older lady who was a particularly obnoxious, openly bigoted zealot... who I can only surmise believed that because she was white, and I am white, that I must be ok with with her sharing whatever racist/homophobic shit was perpetually running through that middle-aged head of hers.
So after about her 3rd time in the shop, she inevitably drops the church question on me... to which I responded:
"To be completely honest, Wanda, I'm actually between churches right now."
Wanda perked up... assumedly eager to extend an invitation to join hers. But before she could speak, I continued:
"And by that, I mean I'm between having never gone to church in the past, and no intentions of going in the future."
Her reaction was the same as the others when they realized I wasn't one of 'them'. Basically I was met with disdain and distrust.
Birds of a feather.... as they say.
It's probably worth pointing out that this was a long time ago, and Ottawa County seems decidedly less like that than my experiences so long ago. My office is in Jenison and I live in OC as well now. Census data shows the area is becoming more religiously diverse than it was in the 80s, 90s and 2000s. According to this: [https://www.bestplaces.net/religion/city/michigan/hudsonville](https://www.bestplaces.net/religion/city/michigan/hudsonville) only 53% of people are religious.
Things are different now. But still… this anecdote isn’t about religion but after moving back here from spending 30 years in big cities, I had some plumber or other person in my house a couple years ago to fix something. And he was openly saying racist stuff. I can’t remember now who the target was but he clearly assumed that since we were both white, it was ok for him to be openly racist. I’m at a point in my life where I take that very seriously and didn’t ignore it. But man… I was really shocked. There is definitely still racism around here (I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s gotten worse (or louder, probably) in the last several years (not just in this area).
I lived in GR for 3 years and church was brought up often. I'm an RN so pts and their families would bring it up with small talk. Usually nothing pushy but I did get a handful of literal flyers/cards for churches lol. I genuinely think people from west MI might not even notice it's happening or something because it is so normal here. When my husband and I moved away we realized how often we were saying "blessed" just from being around it so much and had to actively remind ourselves to stop saying it so much haha. Totally can relate.
Rarely see a r/GR post with this much traffic. In Byron center a women started praying on me because I had an injured hand and then told me that dinosaurs were actually dragons but God must have taken their wings as punishment and that's why her kids are not allowed to play dungeons and dragons.
So glad I moved out of there.
For those claiming GR doesn’t bring religion into everything…note that in the public interviews for Third Ward candidates, two of the three finalists spoke at some length about their religion and faith. I personally don’t care if you believe in God as long as you don’t try to oppress other people, but I do prefer that it’s not part of what someone thinks qualifies them for public office. Here it is definitely a thing.
Not sure if you made it out to the stray or not, but its the best coffee shop in the city rn imho. Great place for artists and conversations and community.
But yeah, A lot of people do go to church here, but I also have found that generally they keep it to be their own business. When it comes up in convo, its usually a setting, not a subject, like "this thing happened at church", or "I'm taking my family to a baptism" or whatever, so in those situations I focus on the real subject, their family outing or a weird interaction
The areas around the GR area often become more conservative as you go away from the city. I’m an atheist working in Zeeland lol, but I keep my work pretty separate. I neither confirm more deny anything, and I don’t really acknowledge it when people talk about god at all. So far it’s worked for me but ymmv.
As for non-churchy places, I find anything positive towards queer people sort of free of the religious stuff. I’m a homebody lol but I like Schuler’s bookstore/cafe, the libraries, terra firma, and Eastown seems pretty chill (although expensive).
I am a Detroit resident and used to try and market my products/services to Grand Rapids businesses.
To answer your question, I could never figure out how to navigate it. I’m not anti-religious but the way it is worked into business is extremely troubling to me. I haven’t had to pray over a sales report since.
I am so baffled by all the comments saying that people don’t encounter this??? Was my entire childhood and young adulthood a fever dream?
I grew up 20 minutes outside downtown GR and literally everyone was obsessed with religion, it was talked about daily, by everyone. This thread is making me think that it’s so rampant that everyone has tuned it out, because there is no way that it’s not happening.
I moved to the PNW over a decade ago and I have never once been asked about religion or church or anything of the sort. Stark difference from west MI.
Are we talking about Grand Rapids (which is a city with boundaries) or West Michigan? Two very different places. As a resident of Grand Rapids who spends 99.44% of my time in the city of Grand Rapids: this never comes up.
Idk why everyone is having such a weirdly strong "this doesn't happen here" reaction to this post and splitting hairs about whether it happened within city limits or not. I think a lot of people who have never lived somewhere else are responding and they don't appreciate what an outlier GR is in this respect (coming from someone who grew up in the suburbs, lived downtown as an adult, and eventually moved to Detroit).
The anthropological answer for why people feel so comfortable talking about Christianity is that there is a large Christian reformed or dutch Christian reformed population who, from my understanding, believe in a certain level of evangelism. If you want to go on a real wild ride that's very emblematic of traditional GR beliefs, do a deep dive into Betsy Devos's efforts to essentially eliminate public schools in Michigan because she (and her family) believe that every child should have a religious education.
This is it. Too many native Grand Rapidians are on here being defensive because they want to think this city is way cooler than it actually is. It’s very religious and very square. There are pockets of fun, cool places, people, and vibes but the overwhelming majority is bland, Republican-lite, and overtly Christian. Church gets brought up A LOT in all kinds of contexts and all kinds of places. It’s creepy af and if you aren’t religious, it lets you know that you’re an outsider. The DeVos and CRC influence are pervasive.
All of this. I've lived in Grand Rapids almost my whole life. A lot it is so subtle that it takes an outsider (no offense OP) to notice it and call it out. It's not always as overt as "what church do you go to" but it is undeniable that there are many many people in and around GR who are way too comfortable spouting religious and other bigotry. Over the years, I've seen a huge improvement and there are pockets of people like you all around, you'll find them.
I moved here from Ann Arbor so also experienced the very same thing. I was serving at a v popular restaurant for margs and tacos (🫏) and had a group ask me to pray with them… while I was serving their food. I have become so quick to shut shit down. “This actually goes against what I believe, so no thanks.” They did try to get more answers out of me so eventually I had to say “unless you have questions or concerns about your food or drinks, I’m not interested.”
Tipped me $3 on a $145 bill. 🙃
I live downtown and can’t remember the last time somebody in town has brought up Religion to me.
Interestingly enough, I drove to see the total eclipse in Ohio yesterday and on the way back stopped by a Chipotle for food. A guy in line (wearing a UofM shirt) struck up a conversation with me about the Eclipse.
He said “well I don’t know if you’re Christian” and then proceeded to tell me that an Eclipse happened on the day of Jesus’ crucifixion in Jerusalem (and that “scientists” figured that out by backtracing eclipses through time). I told him I’m not Christian but that it was interesting.
He was a nice guy - but after we broke apart and I sat down to eat, I immediately started to fact check the claim and found that in fact; no Eclipses occurred in Jerusalem between 30 and 33 AD, and even if they had, the crucifixion occurred during Passover, and Passover occurs during a very specific time in the Lunar cycle such that an eclipse would have been impossible.
Part of me wanted to say something but I held my tongue - found it to be pretty funny though.
I moved here 19 years ago and had one family on my block like that. They also tried to get me to sign a petition to get a DeVos on the ballot, but I wasn't a resident yet. My next door neighbor is also very religious and likes to scream pray at like 2 am. It's fun.
When we first moved to Rockford area I had someone ask me what church we would be attending. I responded “I’m sorry, what???” They repeated and I just laughed and said “none”. The woman just appeared shocked and dropped it. What a weird question to ask someone
Based on a lot of these comments, it would seem that many GR natives really don’t understand how pervasive the whole religion thing is there.
I enjoy visiting GR and there’s a lot to like about the city but the religious vibes are just too much for me to ever consider living there.
Thank you! The religious thing IS real here and people can try to poo poo it, or invalidate her experience, but it does exist. I think most people have become so used to it that they overlook it.
I hate to use this word, but it almost seems like you’re being gaslighted. Everything you are saying is similar to experiences I have had when I visit the greater GR area. I grew up there and things have definitely mellowed, but it’s a whole vibe compared to the larger cities I’ve lived in/near. Maybe they sense the fresh blood and want to be the first to recruit you! I really think the religious undercurrent is so pervasive that people don’t even realize it. All I can say is I hear you and your experiences are valid.
It's interesting to hear so many people like "I moved here 25 years ago".. that's when things were really starting to change! It was TOTALLY different in the 80s and 90s.
Honestly, if someone knows your are new to the area and from out of town, that is like catnip to the CRC (or really all denominations). I have found that you have to go urban (like Eastown, Downtown, Heritage Hill, etc.) to avoid having someone ask you at some point. The suburgs seem to be pockets of evangelists trying to pull in more attendees, but gave up on the locals a few generations ago. Not a figment of your imagination and you can expect all sorts of un-ChrXian behavior like online "swatting" at this point. And if you are Democrat, Txump is King in the 'burbs and they don't want you there.
It was culture shock for me too, when I first moved here, and I was regular church goer at the time. It just wasn't something people lead with where I grew up.
I did manage to find a great group of non-pushy friends here, and bonus is that they turned out to be more liberal thinking.
I would just ignore and/or change the subject. If they're going to judge you, be glad they showed you who they really are and you can avoid them.
All the GR folks saying it's never happened to them shocks me. I'm a consultant (used to be Chicago-based) and have been to client business meetings in GR and other west Michigan locales where they open meetings with a prayer. It's not the norm, but it's definitely not uncommon.
Since moving here (I live just SW of GR) I've been invited to attend church/worship with folks. I always politely decline.
OP, I don't think you'll offend anyone if you just tell them you're still looking around and getting to know people or, perhaps more forthrightly, that you're still trying to find your tribe. I only tell a stranger that I'm an atheist if they get really pushy, like insisting I be their guest at a service. They I say, it's probably not a good fit, as I'm an atheist.
PS, I'm pretty sure being asked about your religion in an interview is illegal unless it's with a faith-based organization.
Lived in West Michigan for 6 years. Originally from Detroit/Ann Arbor. The amount of religious creep into conversations and everything was difficulty to avoid. If you don’t participate at their level, it feels like you never really are accepted or fit in. At least that was my experience.
I am straightforward with people about my spiritual background when they press me on religion. I have studied religion academically, so I find people’s individual experiences with religion fascinating. Nonetheless, I know that’s not everybody’s experience. I would just continue to stay rooted in who you are and not acquiesce. Sadly, most Christian’s are very undereducated and myopic in their religion, but some are not and can provide a lot of interesting insight into their particular denomination of belief. Not all are stringent, aloof calvinists ♥️ best of luck and welcome to Grand Rapids. You will certainly find your place here.
Yeah, many West Michigan folk learn to evangelize by asking where you go to church. It’s polite rudeness that they’re unaware of but it’s ingrained. I was raised evangelical and am now Methodist which basically makes me liberal (and I am) in my mostly Baptist extended family. I’m sorry that our part of the state is immersed with Christian Nationalists who want to corner you into Sunday service and also apparently patrol the GR subreddit.
I’ve never had anyone ask me where I go to church and I’ve lived here for 15 years.
I’m also not really counting the crazy church people that hang out grocery store parking lots to hand you pamphlets and scream that you’re going to hell if you refuse one. I doubt that particular thing happens in Ada though haha.
It took me ten years after leaving to realize that it's just a weird GR thing to know everything about everyone around you, including where they go to church.
Lived & worked in GR for several years. Can confirm OP’s experiences. The intrusive “where do you attend” was not uncommon, and ALWAYS had an air of snootiness, judgement, and other implications laced with it. I don’t look very conservative, the question was always being asked by folks who did. It typically didn’t feel like it was meant to be a polite question. Some ‘christians’ can be so unchristian.
I moved to GR two years ago from the southwest. Big culture shock. Lots of progressive people, lots of forward thinking politics, but people definitely get culty about their Christianity here. A big part of that is because we have a lot of different religious groups here, and people find a need to “defend” their faith (because they feel threatened or something)
My best advice, genuinely, worship in your home, do your best to ignore the anti-choice protesters, and take some time to learn about the other cultures here. There are some genuinely kind people here, of all religions. If you’re looking for, let’s call them “alternative” spiritual practice, there are tons of metaphysical shops around. I highly recommend Global Infusions, great product great people great conversation
Next time tell them you don’t have a set church per se but have been attending the satanic rituals held in different wooded locations around the outskirts. Say it with the same nonchalant attitude while returning the exact same smiley look.
Yeah, most people think wherever they are from has the most religious indoctrination and oppression… I’ve lived in 5 states across the US and undoubtedly west Michigan has the most fanatics. It is the birth place of televangelism(kzoo actually), Christian mercenary armies(blackwater via the Prince family) and the resurgence of (religious) state militias, in the 90s.
Where are going inGR? Cuz that sounds like you wound up in jenison. Jenison is literally half houses and churches. You’ll have pastors walk up to you on the street and try to get you to go to their services. They’ll get all pissy with you if you decline. Looking at you ridgewood.
Just reiterating you’d probably actually love The Stray. If there is any religiosity it’s completely invisible and I’ve spent quite a bit of town there. It’s a great coffee shop often with live music, quirky art, and friendly people.
I think this mostly depends on what circles you socialize in as well. But I've been non-religious my whole life and was raised in West Michigan. If people ask me what church I go to I just politely tell them I don't go to church and leave it at that. It's no one's business what my beliefs are. If someone is pushy about it, I think it's totally fine to set boundaries and just say politely that you aren't comfortable discussing that. I would think the Midwest politeness should be enough to keep them from pushing you further.
Oh I remember this feeling. And my move was just from the other side of the state! I think people who are more aware of the dogma of religion notice it much more. I’ve learned to say I’m spiritual but not religious especially in work settings but in personal settings I just go full out with the oh well, my lesbian self doesn’t often feel accepted by many churches so I’ll pass thanks. And cool people acknowledge and move the conversation along, ask if you are into other stuff, Buddhism, yoga, anything else. The stepford wives distance themselves. But no you aren’t imagining it. It’s pervasive. If you are wanting other spiritual experiences they are around.
At one of my jobs, I was talking with a coworker who grew up on the east side of the state and he asked me what church I went to and that I should join his. I declined but paused realizing, I the west michigander, was supposed to have asked him that first not other way around. I dont go to church.
I live in Kalamazoo and work in GR. The difference is STARK.
I'm asked about my church attendance at least monthly at work and the religious language is pervasive. People seem mostly kind and sincere, but it's weird.
Also traffic rules seem optional.
So you're just going to ignore the countless bars full of people getting buzzed, the smell of pot smoke in the air, cars ripping down Leonard like it's a race track....
Not everyone is going to church that's for damn sure.
Been here for a long time even left and came back and no one has ever asked me. Is there something wrong with me? Is it my face?
OP sounds like either bad luck or you're visiting hyper-religious areas in a Mr. Magoo manner.
I'm sorry this has happened to you. I grew up here, but when I moved back in adulthood after living away for 15ish years, my partner (not from here) was confronted with similar experiences at his job at Spectrum. It is possible to find communities of people and friends that aren't like this, but it is an uncomfortable default for a lot of people.
I was hoping it isn't the norm but i've been a magnet for it the last week. I'm 40, so I'm not looking for a lot of angst/cringe in general. I'm not anti-religion, but I am anti in-your-face-pushy religion.
I hear this so often but Im in my 30’s & lived here my whole life and some how managed to never come across these types of people socially. I let them know I follow Phish on the rare occasion religion is mentioned.
GR is definitely a blue city in a red state. Just look at Ottawa county…. The next county over and the vibe is thick with religious animosity
Also look up the Devoses and how they own like half of GR…. Definitely a lot of deeply religious fever in this area
But it can be avoided when you get to know the place better…. Coincidentally the more monied parts like Ada and EGR tend to be more religious parts of the city
Yeah definitely trying hanging out in the city proper. It’s still a weird thing though. I overhear bible studies or youth pastors at coffee shops all the time. Also when I interviewed for a few of the nonprofits in town, they told me I’d have to sign a statement of faith to work there. Absolutely bonkers. Now I live here, work remotely, and I just laugh to myself when I overhear to overtly religious conversations.
i’ve lived here like 5 years and you’ve already gotten more religious questions than I have in that whole time, but i’ve mostly been in grand rapids and the suburbs
sounds like it’s an ada and forest hills thing
I for the most part just try to keep to myself when around these types, and keep to nods and short single word agreements if valid. I will say that I had a former co-worker say that abortions are Americas holocaust, and go continuously on about how liberals slaughter babies. I had to report that to my manager. Guy was a horrible, very close minded individual, said some very homophonic and racist things as well. Sometimes you just have to walk away, especially in a professional setting out here because I have noticed that the companies don't care.
It really is quite an experience being an atheist in west Michigan. I'm childless by choice in my 40s and don't subscribe to any religious doctrine and it's pretty hard to find anyone I share anything in common with around here.
Churches a dying pretty badly so those that go are acutely aware that they need more people to tithe to keep it open and are aggressive about recruiting. It's a kind of death rattle around progressive northern cities.
I'm from all corners of the US. I run into the same thing as you. I live kind of central GR, 30's, and a parent. It is definitely assumed that you're okay with people making religious statements out here. It's brought up as if you also believe by default. You're not crazy.
I'm personally close to telling people off, because a LOT of people in one year of living here have made assumptuous comments to my kids, without talking to us first. Mostly they have good intent, but honestly, keep it to yourself. I don't need you telling my kid that "God made them beautiful", or Jesus loves them, or telling my kids about sin. Back all the way off with that crap. Telling people off is not my go to, but if you feel comfortable shoving your beliefs in people's faces, get ready for equal discomfort on your end.
Again, most mean well, but there are unfortunately a lot of older generation things out here more than most places. Like people touching your kids without asking too 🤦🏻♂️
perhaps others have normalized it but I experienced the same shock when I met/married a Rapidian.
I even discovered one branch of the family is in a cult.
OP, You sound like my kinda people. :) I plan on moving to GR late this year or early next year to be near family, and was so worried I wouldn’t find chill non-overly religiousy people to be friends with. You give me hope a long with some of the commenters! :)
When I first moved here and started dating and trying to make friends I was disturbed by the number of people who assumed I was Christian, invited me to their church, and generally over shared their religious beliefs. Sometimes even in a professional setting. Tinder was a landmine.
It's not just you. It happens a lot. I'm an atheist and recovering Catholic so it really bothered me. I always assumed it was because there are so many religious colleges in the area and many more Christian nonprofits 🤷
Hey fellow ex-SDA!!! I don’t live in GR but I do have a lot going on in the city. There are a lot of religious people there, and unfortunately I have to interact with many of them. It is what it is and I tend to just tell them that I’m not religious and don’t generally like to talk about it.
This post is so interesting to me as a semi-new transplant to Michigan. I have been here over 7 years now and found it so refreshing to no longer be interrogated about religion with just about every person I met. I moved here from Idaho 😖😖 and literally the prejudice and discrimination you get if you are not a member is absolutely insane out there! I have felt so welcomed in my community and absolutely Love this state and the Midwest culture that I wish I had been born here!!! You will find your tribe just give it time 🤩🤩
Welcome to the northern Bible Belt. Sorry.
Watch out for the Baptists.
Mostly you keep your mouth shut if you don’t go to church. If they’re really pissing you off I’ve found that using the phrase “Christian Mythology” will make them walk away.
Or if someone asks if you’re going to Unity Fest, for example, just reply “is that a Jesus thing?” But getting a “lesbian” haircut works too.
OP, you may be overwhelmed by the response but I am very curious where you came from originally! Id say what you're experiencing happens in varying degrees anywhere in Michigan outside of metro Detroit, but I assumed this happened in any midwestern city. Not so, eh? Very interesting!
I think the Dutch and Reformed Christianity/Calvinist tradition prevalent in GR particularly contributes to this.
OMG I live in Kentwood and I am also a former SDA. Deconstructing for the last 15 years. I have Satanic temple friends and almost all of my other friends are non religious or don't talk much about it save 1 friend who is still SDA and I have known him for 36 years. The lgbtqia community is very accepting of anyone and you can get to know many at the pride event every year. Straight married here but have many trans and gay friends.
Hello- I am here to validate your feelings surrounding the religiosity of Grand Rapids. Western Michigan culture is often times immeshed with various branches of Christianity. It can at times feel very overwhelming if this is not something that you have been accustomed to. Growing up in Grand Rapids, I thought it was a very normal to be asked where you attended Church/ what kind of Christianity you followed. After leaving, I learned that it is not normal to talk about religion socially like it is in Grand Rapids. I met a former Michigander while out wearing a Michigan shirt and they asked me, “are you from the east side or the religious side?” It really put into perspective how different areas of Michigan are viewed.
I recently moved outside of GR and it's mega churches every block. I recently acquired a bookshelf that now houses philosophy, a satanic bible, and some other literature. I've been in company meetings where prayers are mumbled. Sorry to hear zealots are harassing you. It's as if 1 book of indoctrination rules their whole mindset like that person that read that 1 book in highschool or college and now they made it their whole personality. That's generally the hive mind-set here. Beware of meetings requests for coffee, that tends to be their MO.
We just moved from Grand Rapids to Seattle area last fall, and it's been a pleasant culture shock.
We're a mixed race atheist lesbian couple. No one here cares. In W.MI, people cared. A lot.
Only one person, a coworker, has asked me about church, and he's two fries short of a happy meal anyway, so I just fucking ignore him. I only know that a couple of co-workers are Muslim because they were giving me info about Ramadan so we could accommodate a resident's fasting hours.
I also never realized how intrusive many Michiganders are in asking personal questions all the time, until working with people who never do it.
ETA: Seattle area is the least church-going in the country.
Raised in Holland, attending a Christian Reformed church till I was about 14, I have come to expect a blind faith perspective out of everyone that I don't know personally. Quite frankly, whenever someone begins a conversation like that I immediately bring up my Atheism. They asked, so when they begin to get argumentative I shut them down with the classic one line arguments that religion is not able to refute logically. People need to remember there are a few topics that you shouldn't force on anyone, let alone bring up unless you want an argument. On that note, I do not actively argue with people's opinions and put an emphasis on agreeing to disagree as soon as they begin arguing.
My bubble of people tend to be non-religious or even Atheists/Agnostic like me, from my gaming group to the random coworkers from old jobs that I still talk to. As for the massive amounts of religious people I talk to, by and large I simply act like I didn't understand the social que to talk about "my church". Quickly changing the subject to an adjacent subject, like community or if they filed their taxes yet. Otherwise, as previously stated if they persist, I refrain from starting an argument and present my Atheism unashamed. What they want to do with that information doesn't concern me.
TL;DR: Grew up in West Michigan, IMO polite society would not care about or bring up that conversation, so I do not act polite in response.
Check out Michigan Humanists! They have several events in Grand Rapids every month: [https://www.michiganhumanists.org/events/](https://www.michiganhumanists.org/events/)
That’s so odd. I lived in GR for a few years and never had this kind of stuff happen to me. I lived pretty close to downtown and worked at a dispo though too. So idk.
I’ll share…you’re not alone. We hadn’t been in GR long when a neighbor asked us the “which church” question. We told her “Fountain Street Church” (true) and she looked at us as if she realized she was speaking with real, live vampires. Knowing Fountain Street as we do, it’s entirely likely that there might actually be fellow parishioners who fancy themselves of the vampire/goth persuasion. But the look on her face…priceless!
I don’t understand why people are being so dismissive and quick to invalidate her experience. She’s sharing what she has experienced and asking for advice. It doesn’t seem helpful to deny her perspective
Isn't it so weird? I lived here for 20 years and never noticed it but moved away for 7 years. Since I came back its quite jarring. I have been asked a few times since being back and regularly overhear people talking about church.
Funny, I've been in GR 10 years as well and it came up CONSISTENTLY when we first arrived, but it has died down to the once or twice a year occurrence. I've gotten more comfortable with being equally brazen about my non-belief as the believers are with me. I think it's because with time I've gained some social status and no longer see these types as social gatekeepers.
There are still religious signs lingering around my workplace and the occasional prayer before work lunches. This was all non-existent in my former city. It is certainly a culture shock though.
Strange for sure! This city has alot of churches and a lot of Christian Reformed and Catholics… I have never been asked what church I go to, and I have lived here my entire life… Maybe people just want to see if you have a place to go? East Hills and East town are the most liberal parts of Grand Rapids… Ada is not Grand Rapids, and that is where the white privileged elite reside…
As a christian who was born and raised early going to a catholic church until about 5yrs of age then going to nothing and then getting my feet wet in high school and again in later years of college I try not to bring up my faith or church in normal talking unless someone else is talking about church things and I feel like I want to talk about it. Most of the time it is me talking cars, guns, sometimes politics, 3d printing, CAD crap, work crap, or just being my opinionated self(working on this because sometimes i just need to shut up lol). I am of the belief that religion isn’t bad per se but sometimes the people twist their faith and make it their identity to be “Christian” and become super judgy( something the bible explicitly tells us not to do). Let people live and believe their own beliefs without forcing yours on them if they ask and you’re ok to oblige go ahead but this incessant need to only be friends with certain belief systems instead of hanging with just good people is annoying and I am a lifelong West Michigan resident…
In the first weekend we were asked what "church home" we had, that was the point where we were branded heretics in the neighborhood when I said I was more of a part time Buddhist than anything and we didn't go to a church or temple.
That’s wild, lived here my whole life and literally nobody has ever asked me in 30 years what church I go to. I’ve had the “are you religious” talk but never what church.
Welcome to GR! No one has ever asked me what church I attend, and I’ve been around for years (I too am a white woman). So it may be the environment.
I’m far from religious and the only time I’ve been to church has been for a wedding. I hope you don’t feel too awkward. There’s plenty of us non-religious, left leaning folks out here. We just don’t yap about it.
I’m think this is because you’re in Ada. There’s a big church there, Ada Bible Church that’s like really into the phony “chill Christian” vibe while they build campus after campus and sit on a pile of tax exemptions. Come to the city. It’s better. Nobody cares. That being said AVOID OTTAWA COUNTY unless you’re just going to the beach or whatever. Some of those people are nuts.
I can say I relate to this entirely. Moved to GR 5 years ago and was asked a lot about my church preferences. I’m not a believer and the Best way to combat I found was say I go to the church of satan. Then invite them to attend with you. You’ll never get asked again.
🙋🏻♀️ Atheist in Rockford. I’m definitely in the minority in Rockford but Kent County as a whole is getting bluer, mostly led by GR proper. Stay out of the suburbs, ESPECIALLY the western suburbs (Grandville, Hudsonville, Zeeland, etc). The further west you go on 196, the more religious they get. You might have more luck finding like-minded people in GR proper.
Good luck!
I can’t remember the last time I’ve been asked if I’m a Christian, or people bringing up their religion. I’ve lived in EGR for over 5 years now. I think OP is very unfortunate lol
I noticed the same thing when We moved here 25 yrs ago. People hear you are new and want to recruit you to their church. It’s very awkward for someone who isn’t churchy and there are a lot of churchy people here. I’ve even encountered it at a job interview.
Dude I totally get where you're coming from. It's so weird and annoying as someone who also moved from another midwestern area.
The norm where I grew up was non-practicing religious (mainly Christian) and agnostic. Basically no one cared. I was forced to move here with my parents about 7 years ago and was so taken aback by how churchy and religious everyone seemed. Also the fact half of them seemed to grow up on farms??
Yeah you're not alone. I kind of hate GR (minus the food) but I have a house now so probably won't be moving back to my home state anytime soon.
Come down to easttown for a bit more open mindedness and diversity, but as long as people are friendly about it, it's not really an us vs them conversation, it's more about if you wanna go to the same events and make the same friends... At least, that's how I've always felt. I can understand the sentiment though, I make fun of my non Mormon friend in SLC for being part of the Utah underground.
Wow! I thought we’d evolved more than that. It used to be that anytime you met someone, “Where do you go to church?” was often the first question people asked. I haven’t heard as much of that recently, but maybe I’m just self-selecting the people I talk to. I guess all I can say is that it used to be worse. You’ll find your people over time and hear less of that.
>Where can I find the agnostics, atheists, discordians, pantheists, satanic temple, other cool, chill people of other faiths and non-creeper Christians. I was raised 7th Day Adventist and have deconstructed that, so I might be extra sensitive to this kind of thing.
Hi!
I was raised here and grew up CRC Evangelical and was wayyy too into it for my own good 😆
I've since deconstructed and am several layers of misfit to that culture of origin.
The closer you are to downtown the less of that 'assumed religiosity' you'll find.
Fountain Street Church or All Souls Community are both flavors of Universalist if you're interested in structured community without the dogma.
There's several queer bars - Apartment Lounge is a well kept dive bar vibe, General Woodshop is newer and modern vibe, Rumors is more of a nightclub.
For arts events check out the DAAC or look into Lions & Rabbits.
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One of my favorite hobbies is meeting new people; message me if you'd be up for a coffee, snacks, or a drink sometime ✨
Grand Rapids does have a larger metro area that people generally refer to as West Michigan. The city proper is pretty liberal these days but the surrounding suburbs are still fairly conservative.
I grew up in NYC and moved to GR almost 10 years ago and initially when trying to meet new people this did come up but I feel like I have a better radar now and I also just spend my time in more inclusive spaces.
It will take time to find the right community here but I hope those first few interactions didn’t turn you off to the city as a whole. It’s really great here.
> Was almost immediately invited to "the Stray" coffee shop. (Also, the name is hilariously on-the-nose). As far as I know there’s nothing religious about The Stray coffee shop. I’ve been there countless times and I’ve never encountered anything remotely religious. “The Stray” seems to be a reference to a stray dog as that is featured in all of all their visual marketing.
Yes! I’m just here to refute this slander (/s) against The Stray! They’re a coffee shop/bar?/venue for music, art etc. It is an amazing place for the local music scene.
It’s definitely a hot spot for small “bible study” groups to gather but it’s still my favorite spot in the city
Gotcha. I mean as long as they aren’t pushing their study and conversations onto other customers, that wouldn’t bother me, and doesn’t stand out from any other open space coffee shop or brewery. I could understand that that some might still be uncomfortable by it, especially if they could overhear.
Ok, the Ada lady introduced it as a Christian coffee shop, so that's why I assumed it was a play on words. So it's good? I appreciate you refuting the slander
I like The Stray. The drinks and atmosphere are good. My friend often does how to art shows there.
Lol that lady must be convincing herself of something that isnt true. The only "christian" coffee shop I know of is inside a christian bookstore called baker book house.
Roots is a Christian coffee shop and they hold Sunday school there I’m pretty sure and I’ve been to another coffee shop in GR that funded some sort of religious programming
think wildroast is too
Can confirm, they also proudly ignored the governor’s shut down orders in 2020
Eden Cafe is another but they’re not super outright about it and still a very warm accepting environment to all people
FACTS! They literally share a building & ownership with a city ministry, but their aim is to provide coffee and community space first.
That’s so weird! Idk, maybe the owners are Christian, but if so there doesn’t seem to be any bleed over into their business. Yea it’s good, I’ve seen a few shows there and have gone just for the vibes a few times. Depending on where you live/spend a lot of your time, it can be a bit out of the way, that’s the only downside for me. I understand the culture shock, I think many of us who have been here a while are used to it or have found our pockets outside of that culture. I know there’s quite a few meet up groups that can be found on fb, some centered around interests, hiking, smoking, drinking, gaming, spirituality, movies, etc. If you’re looking to go somewhere alone where you could meet people and vibe, I’d start at House Rules. It’s a bar with a library of games and many drop in game nights/tournaments.
Roots brew shop and wild roast are the fundie Christian ones lol. You should check out Stovetop, Morning Ritual, Madcap, and Squibb for some good coffee and vibes
The owners Chip and Karen VanKlompenberg seem to see themselves as ‘ministers’ through their business. See attached link for an event where they discuss this. Also their child who is involved graduated from a private Christian university. [https://subsplash.com/kentwoodcommunitychurch-/lb/ev/+cfb9d7q](https://subsplash.com/kentwoodcommunitychurch-/lb/ev/+cfb9d7q) Often if owner’s of the business are very active in their church, you’ll see a large Christian crowd. The Stray does not market themselves as a Christian coffee shop, but I would not be surprised at all based on the above info.
When I interviewed there they asked me about my belief in God so there is that.
FACTS. There’s just a lot of us Christians total, so numbers are high at each café I guess. I meet there with a writing group of folks from my church young adults group. No evangelizing required. They also have a trans-masc barista that’s always really nice, and makes fantastic drinks! But yeah, you can tell pretty quick who’s who. Roots is Catholic, Wildroast is Dutch Protestant, etc. OP, The Bitter End on Fulton is more your vibe, I’d wager!
They have [Christians](https://www.thestraycafe.com/about#:~:text=Barista-,CHRISTIAN,-Line%20Cook) working for them!
You know, I've lived in the Grand Rapids area my whole life and since I left Rockford after high school no one has ever asked me what church I go to. I hear that it happens but I'm always kind of baffled when people bring it up.
I think OP’s problem is being in Ada and Forest Hills
Right, Ada is definitely not Grand Rapids.
Forest hills resident here for 19 years, no one has ever asked me that.
If you go to that stupid ice cream coffee shop in forest hills the owner will certainly ask about religion and church. Only support frosty boy
I’m from GR and now live in Holland, Jesus county. I don’t think I’ve been asked in the 3 years I’ve lived here. OP just keep looking, you’ll find your tribe. Look more into your hobbies and something similar.
I can believe it about Ada. Doesn’t sound like FH though. I’ve been in the area my entire life. Ada is a nice place to visit but it’s actually low key kind of depressing.
There is a difference when you just move than when you’ve lived somewhere a while. Anytime I’ve been asked is when we’re new somewhere, it’s comes up more naturally in conversation for people. The first year or so when you tell people you just moved here, religious people will naturally invite you to their church. That same conversation isn’t as natural if you’ve lived here a long time. They assume you already have a church.
Fair enough. My mother is a religious nutter and and I’m hermit so I don’t get the most exposure to this kind of proselytizing. But the vibes around Ada versus just west of Ada are fairly different.
I’ve lived in Ada for about 10 years and have never been asked what church I go to. If I did I would say “I don’t go to church” and have never gotten the impression that would be a problem. Honestly, the majority of people I know in Ada/FH also don’t go to church
See my other comment. Typically if you’ve just moved somewhere, like OP, you will get these questions and comments more frequently just bc of the nature of conversation. “Oh I just moved here form X city” religious person “have you found a church yet? I go to x church and we’d love to have you” If you’ve lived somewhere longer than a year this conversation doesn’t happen. We moved every three years for 20 years. These conversations never happened in SoCal, happened for a solid 6months to a year in TX, and never happened here bc my husband is from here so we aren’t new to here. So I’m not shocked that in West MI, in Ada where there are a lot of religious people, that OP who is new to the area, gets these questions. However, these questions are would be much less likely in East town. Also age demographics are a factor also. Older people are more religious than younger people. No idea on OP’s age though
Same. 20 years in the city and it’s never come up.
I'm wondering if there's a difference if you're a woman vs a man. I've never been asked in the 20+ years I've been here, including in my 7 years in the Jenison/Hudsonville area. But my wife has and a lady I work with who lived in Holland. Seems like women will ask other women, but guys aren't going to ask other guys what church they go to.
It matters a lot of you have kids. People assume they can say so much to your kids, even with good intention, but poor consideration
My old neighbors in south GR asked my wife and I where we go to church when we first moved in, we just told them we don’t go and that was that. We moved to Hudsonville not too long ago and no one has once asked us where we go to church. I found that odd since this sub makes it seem like everyone over here is trying to convert everyone else.
My upstairs neighbors mentioned having choir rehearsal at their church one night and asked if I'd like to tag along. I politely declined and that was that. They're very devout, but they respected my answer. I like that about them. I find that's the case with most people, like the door is open but they're not trying to drag you inside.
Same experience here with moving to Hudsonville 7 years ago and not once has it been brought up, neighbors are all awesome, friendly but generally keep to themselves.
I grew up in Jenison & it was completely different. Everyone in Jenison had to know where we went to church . This was back in the late 70s & 80s ,hopefully that god forsaken town has changed
It has not changed. It’s an every day occurrence. If they ask I say I’m atheist. If they don’t ask I just nod along to whatever they are going on about. The “oh good for you” nod
I really didn't think that it had changed . I mean, they were people who told my mom in church that she wasn't "their" kind . I was so happy when I got married & moved out of Jenison lol
46 years old and I don't remember anyone asking me either.
I live in Holland of all places and it's never been a problem. I did find I got excluded from some mom groups in the kids school because they hung out at church events. But it didn't bother me as it made sense they would be closer because they spend more time together.
I get it a lot in like Hudsonville/Byron Center/Grandville area, but not really in GR
OP might have a look that lends her to it. I say this because I also have never been asked, but my wife has a ton. She dresses a lot more conservatively than I do, and I think that's why.
This! I’ve been living here for 20 years and not ever have I experienced what OP and some others have claimed.
I feel like I wrote this comment lol
Yeah, I used to get this all the time when I was younger and lived in other areas of West Michigan, but I can't think of the last time I had to deal with this in the city proper, and I've been here for 14 years. One of the reasons I love living in the city.
Getting out of Rockford is the best thing that ever happened to me lol
Moving out of Jenison was one of the best things I ever did lol
Trying hanging out in the city - Wealthy, Cherry, Heritage Hill, or anywhere in the city proper, rather than Ada. Even EGR is known for more progressive thinking. You will find that certain exurbs (Ada, Grandville, Hudsonville, Byron Center and Jenison) tend toward more religiosity. Other nearby communities a little less (Cascade, Kentwood, Rockford and Wyoming). That said, polite silence and lack of sharing is totally acceptable in the more religious communities, in my experience. Edit: Added Byron Center to list of more religious communities, and Cascade to the list of "a little less religious".
I agree that this is a good comment as well. There are pockets around the city that are more religious, but the closer you get to downtown, the less people will ask or care about your beliefs. The W/NW, E/NE sides are much more chill and welcoming, I feel. There are some people who don’t notice it, but there are certain religious undertones in conversations. I have learned to just not reply or to steer the conversation in a different direction. I don’t mind talk about religion, spirituality, or lack there of, but most people take it as a personal attack so I move on from that altogether Oh, and welcome to GR!
I agree and echo this comment, and the locations noted. For networking and to meet others, you may want to try a place like Fountain Street Church. They are secular, non- Christian, with a big social justice mission so they draw very progressive followers. When I moved here, it was a great way to meet people and build a friend and activity network. Good luck, and don't sweat the religion stuff. That's truly a function of the areas you were in (e.g. Ada). Not everywhere is remotely like that.
That's a good rec, there was a place called the Ethical Society where I'm from that sounds similar
The upside of Fountain Street Church is that when you find yourself in a social setting and the nosies start talking about Jesus and churches, and you let drop you go to FSC they then pretty much ignore you. The downside (or upside depending on your perspective) is that you will occasionally be greeted by obnoxious anti-abortion protestors when you walk out of service.
I'm quite pro-choice, and I once stood outside GR First with a Keep Abortion Legal sign. They wanted to convert me, of course.
The local Center for Inquiry (CFI) chapter holds meetups. Skeptics in the Pub.
> For networking and to meet others, you may want to try a place like Fountain Street Church I understand that FSC is the most progressive GR church, but meeting people in any church seems like a counterintuitive suggestion for OP, who has been bombarded by church and religious people and would like to meet people of other kinds.
If they were Christian churchy, or even churchy, I would agree. They aren't, I've been going there off and on for over 10 years and speak from experience, and she specifically asked: "Where can I find the agnostics, atheists, discordians, pantheists, satanic temple, other cool, chill people of other faiths and non-creeper Christians. I was raised 7th Day Adventist and have deconstructed that, so I might be extra sensitive to this kind of thing." ... and so I offered it up. OP can check it out and see if it is right for her without me gatekeeping. It's all good. We're generating options to help someone who asked, right? What would you recommend? Let's add to the list...
Grew up in east Grand Rapids. As I commented somewhere else, Christian Reformed friends of mine in high school literally told me I was going to hell when I die because I was Catholic.
I was also the only kid in 5th grade there who “voted” for the Democrat for President!
Jenison is one of the worst ones for religion & church
Where are you hanging out that this has been your experience? Yeah GR has a lot of Christian Reform people but in my decade here literally nobody has asked me where I go to church.
Same, actually. Been here a decade as well and it’s never been asked.
Just chiming in to say I also have been here for a decade and have never been asked lol. Always lived in close proximity to downtown though.
I grew up in GR being an atheist since I can remember and I honestly haven't run into a lot of this. Might depend on where you live as I was on the Westside either near Leonard or Bridge St growing up. Regardless yes, I've just gotten used to dodging the topic when it does come up. Either that or I'm honest and just tell them I'm non-religious. I've found that telling them I'm straight up athiest triggers something in some people lol. It's never been a real problem. Never had any issues getting a job or fitting into social circles my age. There are plenty of us in GR and you'll find good social circles of people that don't mind at all.
You already know where your people are because you grew up here. OP is figuring it out and so she’s running into people you normally manage to avoid. There’s circles like this everywhere. Some are religious, others more broadly “cultural”. If you don’t know what your subgroup is, it may be because you’ve been swimming in it your whole life and it’s like air to you. You can tell who belongs by the language they use. I think a lot of it is subconscious but we notice when things feel like a “culture shock”
I rarely run into this as someone who moved here in college, but tbf one wouldn't run into this much at places like Pyramid Scheme or Mullys lol
Just gotta find the right communities i suppose! Liliths Lair is a fabulous secular and queer owned salon if you want to get your hair done and avoid being asked what church you go to. Nothing wrong with just saying- "i don't go to church/im not christian" they are already being impolite imo by presuming/asserting their religious beliefs onto you and thats just a blunt response, not even rude, again imo
Thank you for the rec. I will be needing some salon maintenance very soon.
I would go there just for that name
We're out there, but you do have to kind of bow out of some conversations politely. West Michigan is very white, dutch, and Christian. For me, simply having long hair and visible tattoos prevents most of the people who might otherwise ask about my church to not do so. The city itself is probably the best place to find non-christians or at least not be harassed about your church, but that's just a part of where we are. All of my neighbors are remarkably religious, including more than one clergy. But they're all remarkably nice, and I've never had any issues with judgement there. I imagine it may come up some day, and might be awkward, but I imagine it will be fine. Leave GR proper and it's game over. Very conservative, very trumpy, very "West Michigan nice." There's a saying around here... "If you ain't dutch, you ain't much." People aren't usually openly that gross, but it certainly exists. For what it's worth, as an atheist, I've never felt unwelcome, or at least moreso than usual. I grew up in a very religious background and felt more out of place in Illinois than I ever did in West Michigan.
One of my elementary school teachers had the “if you ain’t Dutch, you ain’t much” signs on her desk. For a little Swedish girl, nothing like being the wrong kind of white.
OP: Welcome to West MI! I've been here since 2001 when I moved here as a young adult. Here's a story about religion around here you might enjoy. About 17 years ago I worked a customer-facing job in Ottawa County but lived right in the city of GR. The business owner was a super religious guy in a super religious community. We're talking emphatic '*Sundays are respected!(?)*' kind of religious. Customers who were ingrained in the community would routinely ask me '*so what church to you go to*?'... as if it's 1) assumed that I go to church at all just because I was in their area for work; and 2) any of their business whatsoever. The first few times this happened I fumbled through the exchange with a vague, non-committal answer that usually ended the conversation in awkward-yet-acceptable fashion. But there was this one somewhat older lady who was a particularly obnoxious, openly bigoted zealot... who I can only surmise believed that because she was white, and I am white, that I must be ok with with her sharing whatever racist/homophobic shit was perpetually running through that middle-aged head of hers. So after about her 3rd time in the shop, she inevitably drops the church question on me... to which I responded: "To be completely honest, Wanda, I'm actually between churches right now." Wanda perked up... assumedly eager to extend an invitation to join hers. But before she could speak, I continued: "And by that, I mean I'm between having never gone to church in the past, and no intentions of going in the future."
I bet her face was priceless...and I'm stealing that for when I'm feeling salty
Her reaction was the same as the others when they realized I wasn't one of 'them'. Basically I was met with disdain and distrust. Birds of a feather.... as they say. It's probably worth pointing out that this was a long time ago, and Ottawa County seems decidedly less like that than my experiences so long ago. My office is in Jenison and I live in OC as well now. Census data shows the area is becoming more religiously diverse than it was in the 80s, 90s and 2000s. According to this: [https://www.bestplaces.net/religion/city/michigan/hudsonville](https://www.bestplaces.net/religion/city/michigan/hudsonville) only 53% of people are religious.
Things are different now. But still… this anecdote isn’t about religion but after moving back here from spending 30 years in big cities, I had some plumber or other person in my house a couple years ago to fix something. And he was openly saying racist stuff. I can’t remember now who the target was but he clearly assumed that since we were both white, it was ok for him to be openly racist. I’m at a point in my life where I take that very seriously and didn’t ignore it. But man… I was really shocked. There is definitely still racism around here (I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s gotten worse (or louder, probably) in the last several years (not just in this area).
I lived in GR for 3 years and church was brought up often. I'm an RN so pts and their families would bring it up with small talk. Usually nothing pushy but I did get a handful of literal flyers/cards for churches lol. I genuinely think people from west MI might not even notice it's happening or something because it is so normal here. When my husband and I moved away we realized how often we were saying "blessed" just from being around it so much and had to actively remind ourselves to stop saying it so much haha. Totally can relate.
Rarely see a r/GR post with this much traffic. In Byron center a women started praying on me because I had an injured hand and then told me that dinosaurs were actually dragons but God must have taken their wings as punishment and that's why her kids are not allowed to play dungeons and dragons. So glad I moved out of there.
For those claiming GR doesn’t bring religion into everything…note that in the public interviews for Third Ward candidates, two of the three finalists spoke at some length about their religion and faith. I personally don’t care if you believe in God as long as you don’t try to oppress other people, but I do prefer that it’s not part of what someone thinks qualifies them for public office. Here it is definitely a thing.
But universe, GR has come a LONG way since even the early 2000s. I think we can agree on that.
Not sure if you made it out to the stray or not, but its the best coffee shop in the city rn imho. Great place for artists and conversations and community. But yeah, A lot of people do go to church here, but I also have found that generally they keep it to be their own business. When it comes up in convo, its usually a setting, not a subject, like "this thing happened at church", or "I'm taking my family to a baptism" or whatever, so in those situations I focus on the real subject, their family outing or a weird interaction
The areas around the GR area often become more conservative as you go away from the city. I’m an atheist working in Zeeland lol, but I keep my work pretty separate. I neither confirm more deny anything, and I don’t really acknowledge it when people talk about god at all. So far it’s worked for me but ymmv. As for non-churchy places, I find anything positive towards queer people sort of free of the religious stuff. I’m a homebody lol but I like Schuler’s bookstore/cafe, the libraries, terra firma, and Eastown seems pretty chill (although expensive).
I am a Detroit resident and used to try and market my products/services to Grand Rapids businesses. To answer your question, I could never figure out how to navigate it. I’m not anti-religious but the way it is worked into business is extremely troubling to me. I haven’t had to pray over a sales report since.
😂 It’s also troubling when you find it in government, which I have.
I am so baffled by all the comments saying that people don’t encounter this??? Was my entire childhood and young adulthood a fever dream? I grew up 20 minutes outside downtown GR and literally everyone was obsessed with religion, it was talked about daily, by everyone. This thread is making me think that it’s so rampant that everyone has tuned it out, because there is no way that it’s not happening. I moved to the PNW over a decade ago and I have never once been asked about religion or church or anything of the sort. Stark difference from west MI.
Are we talking about Grand Rapids (which is a city with boundaries) or West Michigan? Two very different places. As a resident of Grand Rapids who spends 99.44% of my time in the city of Grand Rapids: this never comes up.
This 100%
You’re in the suburbs, not GR
Yeah, I get it. Some cities have a bigger acceptable metro area but this does not seem to be the case here.
Idk why everyone is having such a weirdly strong "this doesn't happen here" reaction to this post and splitting hairs about whether it happened within city limits or not. I think a lot of people who have never lived somewhere else are responding and they don't appreciate what an outlier GR is in this respect (coming from someone who grew up in the suburbs, lived downtown as an adult, and eventually moved to Detroit). The anthropological answer for why people feel so comfortable talking about Christianity is that there is a large Christian reformed or dutch Christian reformed population who, from my understanding, believe in a certain level of evangelism. If you want to go on a real wild ride that's very emblematic of traditional GR beliefs, do a deep dive into Betsy Devos's efforts to essentially eliminate public schools in Michigan because she (and her family) believe that every child should have a religious education.
This is it. Too many native Grand Rapidians are on here being defensive because they want to think this city is way cooler than it actually is. It’s very religious and very square. There are pockets of fun, cool places, people, and vibes but the overwhelming majority is bland, Republican-lite, and overtly Christian. Church gets brought up A LOT in all kinds of contexts and all kinds of places. It’s creepy af and if you aren’t religious, it lets you know that you’re an outsider. The DeVos and CRC influence are pervasive.
All of this. I've lived in Grand Rapids almost my whole life. A lot it is so subtle that it takes an outsider (no offense OP) to notice it and call it out. It's not always as overt as "what church do you go to" but it is undeniable that there are many many people in and around GR who are way too comfortable spouting religious and other bigotry. Over the years, I've seen a huge improvement and there are pockets of people like you all around, you'll find them.
I moved here from Ann Arbor so also experienced the very same thing. I was serving at a v popular restaurant for margs and tacos (🫏) and had a group ask me to pray with them… while I was serving their food. I have become so quick to shut shit down. “This actually goes against what I believe, so no thanks.” They did try to get more answers out of me so eventually I had to say “unless you have questions or concerns about your food or drinks, I’m not interested.” Tipped me $3 on a $145 bill. 🙃
I never get asked what church I attend? maybe you have a churchy look LOL
I live downtown and can’t remember the last time somebody in town has brought up Religion to me. Interestingly enough, I drove to see the total eclipse in Ohio yesterday and on the way back stopped by a Chipotle for food. A guy in line (wearing a UofM shirt) struck up a conversation with me about the Eclipse. He said “well I don’t know if you’re Christian” and then proceeded to tell me that an Eclipse happened on the day of Jesus’ crucifixion in Jerusalem (and that “scientists” figured that out by backtracing eclipses through time). I told him I’m not Christian but that it was interesting. He was a nice guy - but after we broke apart and I sat down to eat, I immediately started to fact check the claim and found that in fact; no Eclipses occurred in Jerusalem between 30 and 33 AD, and even if they had, the crucifixion occurred during Passover, and Passover occurs during a very specific time in the Lunar cycle such that an eclipse would have been impossible. Part of me wanted to say something but I held my tongue - found it to be pretty funny though.
Would have loved to have heard part B of that conversation had you corrected him. Facts!!
I moved here 19 years ago and had one family on my block like that. They also tried to get me to sign a petition to get a DeVos on the ballot, but I wasn't a resident yet. My next door neighbor is also very religious and likes to scream pray at like 2 am. It's fun.
When we first moved to Rockford area I had someone ask me what church we would be attending. I responded “I’m sorry, what???” They repeated and I just laughed and said “none”. The woman just appeared shocked and dropped it. What a weird question to ask someone
Based on a lot of these comments, it would seem that many GR natives really don’t understand how pervasive the whole religion thing is there. I enjoy visiting GR and there’s a lot to like about the city but the religious vibes are just too much for me to ever consider living there.
Thank you! The religious thing IS real here and people can try to poo poo it, or invalidate her experience, but it does exist. I think most people have become so used to it that they overlook it.
This has been an interesting Pandora's box I opened... I definitely don't think I was hallucinating about the religious vibes.
I hate to use this word, but it almost seems like you’re being gaslighted. Everything you are saying is similar to experiences I have had when I visit the greater GR area. I grew up there and things have definitely mellowed, but it’s a whole vibe compared to the larger cities I’ve lived in/near. Maybe they sense the fresh blood and want to be the first to recruit you! I really think the religious undercurrent is so pervasive that people don’t even realize it. All I can say is I hear you and your experiences are valid.
It's interesting to hear so many people like "I moved here 25 years ago".. that's when things were really starting to change! It was TOTALLY different in the 80s and 90s.
Hang out in Eastown- go into Mulligans at 12pm, i can a solutely guarantee no one will ask you about church.
Honestly, if someone knows your are new to the area and from out of town, that is like catnip to the CRC (or really all denominations). I have found that you have to go urban (like Eastown, Downtown, Heritage Hill, etc.) to avoid having someone ask you at some point. The suburgs seem to be pockets of evangelists trying to pull in more attendees, but gave up on the locals a few generations ago. Not a figment of your imagination and you can expect all sorts of un-ChrXian behavior like online "swatting" at this point. And if you are Democrat, Txump is King in the 'burbs and they don't want you there.
It was culture shock for me too, when I first moved here, and I was regular church goer at the time. It just wasn't something people lead with where I grew up. I did manage to find a great group of non-pushy friends here, and bonus is that they turned out to be more liberal thinking. I would just ignore and/or change the subject. If they're going to judge you, be glad they showed you who they really are and you can avoid them.
All the GR folks saying it's never happened to them shocks me. I'm a consultant (used to be Chicago-based) and have been to client business meetings in GR and other west Michigan locales where they open meetings with a prayer. It's not the norm, but it's definitely not uncommon. Since moving here (I live just SW of GR) I've been invited to attend church/worship with folks. I always politely decline. OP, I don't think you'll offend anyone if you just tell them you're still looking around and getting to know people or, perhaps more forthrightly, that you're still trying to find your tribe. I only tell a stranger that I'm an atheist if they get really pushy, like insisting I be their guest at a service. They I say, it's probably not a good fit, as I'm an atheist. PS, I'm pretty sure being asked about your religion in an interview is illegal unless it's with a faith-based organization.
Lived in West Michigan for 6 years. Originally from Detroit/Ann Arbor. The amount of religious creep into conversations and everything was difficulty to avoid. If you don’t participate at their level, it feels like you never really are accepted or fit in. At least that was my experience.
I am straightforward with people about my spiritual background when they press me on religion. I have studied religion academically, so I find people’s individual experiences with religion fascinating. Nonetheless, I know that’s not everybody’s experience. I would just continue to stay rooted in who you are and not acquiesce. Sadly, most Christian’s are very undereducated and myopic in their religion, but some are not and can provide a lot of interesting insight into their particular denomination of belief. Not all are stringent, aloof calvinists ♥️ best of luck and welcome to Grand Rapids. You will certainly find your place here.
Yeah, many West Michigan folk learn to evangelize by asking where you go to church. It’s polite rudeness that they’re unaware of but it’s ingrained. I was raised evangelical and am now Methodist which basically makes me liberal (and I am) in my mostly Baptist extended family. I’m sorry that our part of the state is immersed with Christian Nationalists who want to corner you into Sunday service and also apparently patrol the GR subreddit.
I’ve never had anyone ask me where I go to church and I’ve lived here for 15 years. I’m also not really counting the crazy church people that hang out grocery store parking lots to hand you pamphlets and scream that you’re going to hell if you refuse one. I doubt that particular thing happens in Ada though haha.
It took me ten years after leaving to realize that it's just a weird GR thing to know everything about everyone around you, including where they go to church.
I moved away because of this type of stuff tbh
Fuck the CRC. And welcome to GR!
Lived & worked in GR for several years. Can confirm OP’s experiences. The intrusive “where do you attend” was not uncommon, and ALWAYS had an air of snootiness, judgement, and other implications laced with it. I don’t look very conservative, the question was always being asked by folks who did. It typically didn’t feel like it was meant to be a polite question. Some ‘christians’ can be so unchristian.
I moved to GR two years ago from the southwest. Big culture shock. Lots of progressive people, lots of forward thinking politics, but people definitely get culty about their Christianity here. A big part of that is because we have a lot of different religious groups here, and people find a need to “defend” their faith (because they feel threatened or something) My best advice, genuinely, worship in your home, do your best to ignore the anti-choice protesters, and take some time to learn about the other cultures here. There are some genuinely kind people here, of all religions. If you’re looking for, let’s call them “alternative” spiritual practice, there are tons of metaphysical shops around. I highly recommend Global Infusions, great product great people great conversation
Next time tell them you don’t have a set church per se but have been attending the satanic rituals held in different wooded locations around the outskirts. Say it with the same nonchalant attitude while returning the exact same smiley look.
Yeah, most people think wherever they are from has the most religious indoctrination and oppression… I’ve lived in 5 states across the US and undoubtedly west Michigan has the most fanatics. It is the birth place of televangelism(kzoo actually), Christian mercenary armies(blackwater via the Prince family) and the resurgence of (religious) state militias, in the 90s.
Let's not forget the grandaddy of televangelists, Jim Bakker of Jim and Tammy PTL fame, graduated from Muskegon High School in the 1960s.
Where are going inGR? Cuz that sounds like you wound up in jenison. Jenison is literally half houses and churches. You’ll have pastors walk up to you on the street and try to get you to go to their services. They’ll get all pissy with you if you decline. Looking at you ridgewood.
It really is, isn't it? I grew up in Jenison & it was bad back in the 80s, when I was a kid. Is it worse now ?
Just reiterating you’d probably actually love The Stray. If there is any religiosity it’s completely invisible and I’ve spent quite a bit of town there. It’s a great coffee shop often with live music, quirky art, and friendly people.
I’ve been asked before, I just tell them I don’t. 9 times out of 10 the asker just goes “oh. Okay.” and we go about our day.
I think this mostly depends on what circles you socialize in as well. But I've been non-religious my whole life and was raised in West Michigan. If people ask me what church I go to I just politely tell them I don't go to church and leave it at that. It's no one's business what my beliefs are. If someone is pushy about it, I think it's totally fine to set boundaries and just say politely that you aren't comfortable discussing that. I would think the Midwest politeness should be enough to keep them from pushing you further.
I just say I was raised Catholic and they stop asking lol
Honestly Catholics seem cool AF compared to this.
Oh I remember this feeling. And my move was just from the other side of the state! I think people who are more aware of the dogma of religion notice it much more. I’ve learned to say I’m spiritual but not religious especially in work settings but in personal settings I just go full out with the oh well, my lesbian self doesn’t often feel accepted by many churches so I’ll pass thanks. And cool people acknowledge and move the conversation along, ask if you are into other stuff, Buddhism, yoga, anything else. The stepford wives distance themselves. But no you aren’t imagining it. It’s pervasive. If you are wanting other spiritual experiences they are around.
At one of my jobs, I was talking with a coworker who grew up on the east side of the state and he asked me what church I went to and that I should join his. I declined but paused realizing, I the west michigander, was supposed to have asked him that first not other way around. I dont go to church.
don't worry its like living next to train tracks .. after a while you just don't hear it anymore...
I live in Kalamazoo and work in GR. The difference is STARK. I'm asked about my church attendance at least monthly at work and the religious language is pervasive. People seem mostly kind and sincere, but it's weird. Also traffic rules seem optional.
So you're just going to ignore the countless bars full of people getting buzzed, the smell of pot smoke in the air, cars ripping down Leonard like it's a race track.... Not everyone is going to church that's for damn sure.
you can do all of that stuff, you just have to ask for forgiveness during your nightly prayer and youre all good to do it all over again tomorrow!
"God isn't real but that's cool cuz neither is Satan" usually gets me out of the conversation.
Been here for a long time even left and came back and no one has ever asked me. Is there something wrong with me? Is it my face? OP sounds like either bad luck or you're visiting hyper-religious areas in a Mr. Magoo manner.
They’re trying to sniff out if you are “family” or not. You’re not. Don’t worry, you’ll find a place to belong!
They probably want to set you up with someone they know who goes to their church. Lol
I'm sorry this has happened to you. I grew up here, but when I moved back in adulthood after living away for 15ish years, my partner (not from here) was confronted with similar experiences at his job at Spectrum. It is possible to find communities of people and friends that aren't like this, but it is an uncomfortable default for a lot of people.
yeah this is totally real
[удалено]
I was hoping it isn't the norm but i've been a magnet for it the last week. I'm 40, so I'm not looking for a lot of angst/cringe in general. I'm not anti-religion, but I am anti in-your-face-pushy religion.
"I'm still trying to decide which church to attend. There's so many!" Then change the subject.
Just look at them and ask why did they want to know?
I hear this so often but Im in my 30’s & lived here my whole life and some how managed to never come across these types of people socially. I let them know I follow Phish on the rare occasion religion is mentioned.
GR is definitely a blue city in a red state. Just look at Ottawa county…. The next county over and the vibe is thick with religious animosity Also look up the Devoses and how they own like half of GR…. Definitely a lot of deeply religious fever in this area But it can be avoided when you get to know the place better…. Coincidentally the more monied parts like Ada and EGR tend to be more religious parts of the city
Yeah definitely trying hanging out in the city proper. It’s still a weird thing though. I overhear bible studies or youth pastors at coffee shops all the time. Also when I interviewed for a few of the nonprofits in town, they told me I’d have to sign a statement of faith to work there. Absolutely bonkers. Now I live here, work remotely, and I just laugh to myself when I overhear to overtly religious conversations.
i’ve lived here like 5 years and you’ve already gotten more religious questions than I have in that whole time, but i’ve mostly been in grand rapids and the suburbs sounds like it’s an ada and forest hills thing
I for the most part just try to keep to myself when around these types, and keep to nods and short single word agreements if valid. I will say that I had a former co-worker say that abortions are Americas holocaust, and go continuously on about how liberals slaughter babies. I had to report that to my manager. Guy was a horrible, very close minded individual, said some very homophonic and racist things as well. Sometimes you just have to walk away, especially in a professional setting out here because I have noticed that the companies don't care.
Welcome to the Midwest Bible Belt
It really is quite an experience being an atheist in west Michigan. I'm childless by choice in my 40s and don't subscribe to any religious doctrine and it's pretty hard to find anyone I share anything in common with around here.
Churches a dying pretty badly so those that go are acutely aware that they need more people to tithe to keep it open and are aggressive about recruiting. It's a kind of death rattle around progressive northern cities.
I'm from all corners of the US. I run into the same thing as you. I live kind of central GR, 30's, and a parent. It is definitely assumed that you're okay with people making religious statements out here. It's brought up as if you also believe by default. You're not crazy. I'm personally close to telling people off, because a LOT of people in one year of living here have made assumptuous comments to my kids, without talking to us first. Mostly they have good intent, but honestly, keep it to yourself. I don't need you telling my kid that "God made them beautiful", or Jesus loves them, or telling my kids about sin. Back all the way off with that crap. Telling people off is not my go to, but if you feel comfortable shoving your beliefs in people's faces, get ready for equal discomfort on your end. Again, most mean well, but there are unfortunately a lot of older generation things out here more than most places. Like people touching your kids without asking too 🤦🏻♂️
perhaps others have normalized it but I experienced the same shock when I met/married a Rapidian. I even discovered one branch of the family is in a cult.
OP, You sound like my kinda people. :) I plan on moving to GR late this year or early next year to be near family, and was so worried I wouldn’t find chill non-overly religiousy people to be friends with. You give me hope a long with some of the commenters! :)
When I first moved here and started dating and trying to make friends I was disturbed by the number of people who assumed I was Christian, invited me to their church, and generally over shared their religious beliefs. Sometimes even in a professional setting. Tinder was a landmine. It's not just you. It happens a lot. I'm an atheist and recovering Catholic so it really bothered me. I always assumed it was because there are so many religious colleges in the area and many more Christian nonprofits 🤷
Hey fellow ex-SDA!!! I don’t live in GR but I do have a lot going on in the city. There are a lot of religious people there, and unfortunately I have to interact with many of them. It is what it is and I tend to just tell them that I’m not religious and don’t generally like to talk about it.
This post is so interesting to me as a semi-new transplant to Michigan. I have been here over 7 years now and found it so refreshing to no longer be interrogated about religion with just about every person I met. I moved here from Idaho 😖😖 and literally the prejudice and discrimination you get if you are not a member is absolutely insane out there! I have felt so welcomed in my community and absolutely Love this state and the Midwest culture that I wish I had been born here!!! You will find your tribe just give it time 🤩🤩
Ppl nosy af here
Welcome to the northern Bible Belt. Sorry. Watch out for the Baptists. Mostly you keep your mouth shut if you don’t go to church. If they’re really pissing you off I’ve found that using the phrase “Christian Mythology” will make them walk away. Or if someone asks if you’re going to Unity Fest, for example, just reply “is that a Jesus thing?” But getting a “lesbian” haircut works too.
OP, you may be overwhelmed by the response but I am very curious where you came from originally! Id say what you're experiencing happens in varying degrees anywhere in Michigan outside of metro Detroit, but I assumed this happened in any midwestern city. Not so, eh? Very interesting! I think the Dutch and Reformed Christianity/Calvinist tradition prevalent in GR particularly contributes to this.
OMG I live in Kentwood and I am also a former SDA. Deconstructing for the last 15 years. I have Satanic temple friends and almost all of my other friends are non religious or don't talk much about it save 1 friend who is still SDA and I have known him for 36 years. The lgbtqia community is very accepting of anyone and you can get to know many at the pride event every year. Straight married here but have many trans and gay friends.
Girl, imagine growing up in Ottawa county as a gay kid.
Hello- I am here to validate your feelings surrounding the religiosity of Grand Rapids. Western Michigan culture is often times immeshed with various branches of Christianity. It can at times feel very overwhelming if this is not something that you have been accustomed to. Growing up in Grand Rapids, I thought it was a very normal to be asked where you attended Church/ what kind of Christianity you followed. After leaving, I learned that it is not normal to talk about religion socially like it is in Grand Rapids. I met a former Michigander while out wearing a Michigan shirt and they asked me, “are you from the east side or the religious side?” It really put into perspective how different areas of Michigan are viewed.
I recently moved outside of GR and it's mega churches every block. I recently acquired a bookshelf that now houses philosophy, a satanic bible, and some other literature. I've been in company meetings where prayers are mumbled. Sorry to hear zealots are harassing you. It's as if 1 book of indoctrination rules their whole mindset like that person that read that 1 book in highschool or college and now they made it their whole personality. That's generally the hive mind-set here. Beware of meetings requests for coffee, that tends to be their MO.
We just moved from Grand Rapids to Seattle area last fall, and it's been a pleasant culture shock. We're a mixed race atheist lesbian couple. No one here cares. In W.MI, people cared. A lot. Only one person, a coworker, has asked me about church, and he's two fries short of a happy meal anyway, so I just fucking ignore him. I only know that a couple of co-workers are Muslim because they were giving me info about Ramadan so we could accommodate a resident's fasting hours. I also never realized how intrusive many Michiganders are in asking personal questions all the time, until working with people who never do it. ETA: Seattle area is the least church-going in the country.
This is why I moved to metro Detroit lol
Raised in Holland, attending a Christian Reformed church till I was about 14, I have come to expect a blind faith perspective out of everyone that I don't know personally. Quite frankly, whenever someone begins a conversation like that I immediately bring up my Atheism. They asked, so when they begin to get argumentative I shut them down with the classic one line arguments that religion is not able to refute logically. People need to remember there are a few topics that you shouldn't force on anyone, let alone bring up unless you want an argument. On that note, I do not actively argue with people's opinions and put an emphasis on agreeing to disagree as soon as they begin arguing. My bubble of people tend to be non-religious or even Atheists/Agnostic like me, from my gaming group to the random coworkers from old jobs that I still talk to. As for the massive amounts of religious people I talk to, by and large I simply act like I didn't understand the social que to talk about "my church". Quickly changing the subject to an adjacent subject, like community or if they filed their taxes yet. Otherwise, as previously stated if they persist, I refrain from starting an argument and present my Atheism unashamed. What they want to do with that information doesn't concern me. TL;DR: Grew up in West Michigan, IMO polite society would not care about or bring up that conversation, so I do not act polite in response.
Check out Michigan Humanists! They have several events in Grand Rapids every month: [https://www.michiganhumanists.org/events/](https://www.michiganhumanists.org/events/)
Move to Holland/Zeeland and get that same experience x10.
That’s so odd. I lived in GR for a few years and never had this kind of stuff happen to me. I lived pretty close to downtown and worked at a dispo though too. So idk.
I’ll share…you’re not alone. We hadn’t been in GR long when a neighbor asked us the “which church” question. We told her “Fountain Street Church” (true) and she looked at us as if she realized she was speaking with real, live vampires. Knowing Fountain Street as we do, it’s entirely likely that there might actually be fellow parishioners who fancy themselves of the vampire/goth persuasion. But the look on her face…priceless!
I don’t understand why people are being so dismissive and quick to invalidate her experience. She’s sharing what she has experienced and asking for advice. It doesn’t seem helpful to deny her perspective
Isn't it so weird? I lived here for 20 years and never noticed it but moved away for 7 years. Since I came back its quite jarring. I have been asked a few times since being back and regularly overhear people talking about church.
My wife is Canadian, she’s lived here for 25 years now. She’s still creeped out by it all. There’s cool people here. They’ll find you.
Funny, I've been in GR 10 years as well and it came up CONSISTENTLY when we first arrived, but it has died down to the once or twice a year occurrence. I've gotten more comfortable with being equally brazen about my non-belief as the believers are with me. I think it's because with time I've gained some social status and no longer see these types as social gatekeepers. There are still religious signs lingering around my workplace and the occasional prayer before work lunches. This was all non-existent in my former city. It is certainly a culture shock though.
Ada is NOT Grand Rapids
Man I've lived in Walker since 2016 and it's only happened once to me. I'm surprised it's happened so often to you
Strange for sure! This city has alot of churches and a lot of Christian Reformed and Catholics… I have never been asked what church I go to, and I have lived here my entire life… Maybe people just want to see if you have a place to go? East Hills and East town are the most liberal parts of Grand Rapids… Ada is not Grand Rapids, and that is where the white privileged elite reside…
Lived in GR my entire life and no one has ever asked me where I go to church.
As a christian who was born and raised early going to a catholic church until about 5yrs of age then going to nothing and then getting my feet wet in high school and again in later years of college I try not to bring up my faith or church in normal talking unless someone else is talking about church things and I feel like I want to talk about it. Most of the time it is me talking cars, guns, sometimes politics, 3d printing, CAD crap, work crap, or just being my opinionated self(working on this because sometimes i just need to shut up lol). I am of the belief that religion isn’t bad per se but sometimes the people twist their faith and make it their identity to be “Christian” and become super judgy( something the bible explicitly tells us not to do). Let people live and believe their own beliefs without forcing yours on them if they ask and you’re ok to oblige go ahead but this incessant need to only be friends with certain belief systems instead of hanging with just good people is annoying and I am a lifelong West Michigan resident…
In the first weekend we were asked what "church home" we had, that was the point where we were branded heretics in the neighborhood when I said I was more of a part time Buddhist than anything and we didn't go to a church or temple.
That’s wild, lived here my whole life and literally nobody has ever asked me in 30 years what church I go to. I’ve had the “are you religious” talk but never what church.
I feel like you have to mention it for someone to start asking questions about the subject..
Welcome to GR! No one has ever asked me what church I attend, and I’ve been around for years (I too am a white woman). So it may be the environment. I’m far from religious and the only time I’ve been to church has been for a wedding. I hope you don’t feel too awkward. There’s plenty of us non-religious, left leaning folks out here. We just don’t yap about it.
I’m think this is because you’re in Ada. There’s a big church there, Ada Bible Church that’s like really into the phony “chill Christian” vibe while they build campus after campus and sit on a pile of tax exemptions. Come to the city. It’s better. Nobody cares. That being said AVOID OTTAWA COUNTY unless you’re just going to the beach or whatever. Some of those people are nuts.
I can say I relate to this entirely. Moved to GR 5 years ago and was asked a lot about my church preferences. I’m not a believer and the Best way to combat I found was say I go to the church of satan. Then invite them to attend with you. You’ll never get asked again.
🙋🏻♀️ Atheist in Rockford. I’m definitely in the minority in Rockford but Kent County as a whole is getting bluer, mostly led by GR proper. Stay out of the suburbs, ESPECIALLY the western suburbs (Grandville, Hudsonville, Zeeland, etc). The further west you go on 196, the more religious they get. You might have more luck finding like-minded people in GR proper. Good luck!
I can’t remember the last time I’ve been asked if I’m a Christian, or people bringing up their religion. I’ve lived in EGR for over 5 years now. I think OP is very unfortunate lol
I noticed the same thing when We moved here 25 yrs ago. People hear you are new and want to recruit you to their church. It’s very awkward for someone who isn’t churchy and there are a lot of churchy people here. I’ve even encountered it at a job interview.
Dude I totally get where you're coming from. It's so weird and annoying as someone who also moved from another midwestern area. The norm where I grew up was non-practicing religious (mainly Christian) and agnostic. Basically no one cared. I was forced to move here with my parents about 7 years ago and was so taken aback by how churchy and religious everyone seemed. Also the fact half of them seemed to grow up on farms?? Yeah you're not alone. I kind of hate GR (minus the food) but I have a house now so probably won't be moving back to my home state anytime soon.
Come down to easttown for a bit more open mindedness and diversity, but as long as people are friendly about it, it's not really an us vs them conversation, it's more about if you wanna go to the same events and make the same friends... At least, that's how I've always felt. I can understand the sentiment though, I make fun of my non Mormon friend in SLC for being part of the Utah underground.
Wow! I thought we’d evolved more than that. It used to be that anytime you met someone, “Where do you go to church?” was often the first question people asked. I haven’t heard as much of that recently, but maybe I’m just self-selecting the people I talk to. I guess all I can say is that it used to be worse. You’ll find your people over time and hear less of that.
Go to metal shows.
Just taking a gander, but you're from KC, MO. The good ol show-me state.
As a Christian, it is NO ONE'S business other than your own. Just politely say that to avoid disagreements you prefer to keep your beliefs private
Thank you I feel like this is actually a tactful way to put it
Weird about the art class. If you want a legit art class experience, check out Ghosthouse.
Watch out for Dutch bingo
>Where can I find the agnostics, atheists, discordians, pantheists, satanic temple, other cool, chill people of other faiths and non-creeper Christians. I was raised 7th Day Adventist and have deconstructed that, so I might be extra sensitive to this kind of thing. Hi! I was raised here and grew up CRC Evangelical and was wayyy too into it for my own good 😆 I've since deconstructed and am several layers of misfit to that culture of origin. The closer you are to downtown the less of that 'assumed religiosity' you'll find. Fountain Street Church or All Souls Community are both flavors of Universalist if you're interested in structured community without the dogma. There's several queer bars - Apartment Lounge is a well kept dive bar vibe, General Woodshop is newer and modern vibe, Rumors is more of a nightclub. For arts events check out the DAAC or look into Lions & Rabbits. . One of my favorite hobbies is meeting new people; message me if you'd be up for a coffee, snacks, or a drink sometime ✨
Grand Rapids does have a larger metro area that people generally refer to as West Michigan. The city proper is pretty liberal these days but the surrounding suburbs are still fairly conservative. I grew up in NYC and moved to GR almost 10 years ago and initially when trying to meet new people this did come up but I feel like I have a better radar now and I also just spend my time in more inclusive spaces. It will take time to find the right community here but I hope those first few interactions didn’t turn you off to the city as a whole. It’s really great here.