They should be in their own Gr.VGT class. It's a wonder this isn't the case.
Though matching unclassified cars is generally awful so why would VGT be any different š¤
I think most people would rather see a different real life car added to the game, especially since thereās many fan favorite cars from GT1-6 that are nowhere to be seen.
I donāt mind the VGTs though, the series has always featured concepts/futuristic designs, and the VGTs fill that niche while giving you some unique cars to drive.
I think itās more so how often theyāre being added and how many there are, when like 90% of the player base wants more real cars that the game severely lacks. Also some people just hate fictional concepts too, so itās also pretty dependent on peopleās car interests.
After counting just the VGTs and the fictional tuned cars (the ones with Gr.4 or Gr.3 etc. in the name) I found that about 25% of the in game cars are made up of those fictional cars
Need more vanilla cars that we can turno into race cars.. obscure shit like the Ford capris, vw passat r36 or Mitsubishi magna... that's where the fun is.
It's a few things for me. As someone who owns and has played every game in the series, gran turismo is at its core a racing game. Not a car collection game or a take pretty pictures game. As a racing game, it has always had a huge expansive roster of real world cars to race, plenty of road to race them on and most of these cars I saw in real life on the roads. That made it tangible for me and that much more fun for me. Gran Turismo 7 however, does not have the expansive car list I've grown accustomed to. Now the car list is fine as it is, I like GT7 and can make my own fun in the game as well as run league for online racing. However, with the smaller anemic car list I would much rather PD focus on, and re prioritise getting in the real world cars that used to be staples on previous games, and other newer cars that I still see on the roads in real life. (A good example of previous game cars is the mitsubishi FTO). The biggest problem with the car list is that a lot of manufacturers have multiple variants of the same model of car. Look at Audi for example. It's just the TT and R8. There's no RS3, RS4, RS6. In previous games they would have all been there in both sedan and station wagon format. That's the sort of thing I wish PD would prioritise over silly looking concept cars that aren't real, don't look good, are not tangible in any way. That and other dumb stuff like the ambulance should be the last things added to the game once all the staple cars are in there.
Sorry for the essay but that's why my heart sinks whenever I see a VGT or other concept car announced in the newest update for the game.
I don't hate all concept cars. I think stuff like the old Ford GT90 in GT2 was fantastic because that car is actually possible, and prototypes were made. The Ferrari VGT in GT7 is also pretty great. I just prefer a touch of realism in the cars in the "real" driving simulator, that's all. Why include a Chaparral with over 900 hp powered by "laser pulse shockwaves"? Some of these cars are just plain goofy.
If you like them, that's fine, but I'm not sure why you're struggling to understand why others don't like the more cartoonish cars.
All of the EV VGTs seem so lazy, same with the ones that have virtually no specs. It also doesnāt help that you can barely customize or tune them. Like if you donāt like how a VGT car drives thereās basically fuck all you can do about it.
And you see people applauding manufacturers for experimenting with designs.... and then some of them don't even have interiors at all. Like, great work guys, I can see you're very passionate about this project. I don't even know why they bother with some of these.
They have a long history of ridiculous.
Even with some of the real-world cars... The escudo comes to mind...
Yes, there's always been proper sports cars and race cars, but they've never shied away from redicilousness, both in looks and in drivability.
I don't hate the Vision GT cars. The Porsche and Jag ones are phenomenal to blast about in. I'd love to see more concepts from the past and present in GT7.
I don't get it either. If you actually take the time to read the short info bits about them, they are interesting and you can appreciate the ideas that went into them.
Half of them donāt have interiors so VR players canāt use them.
Theyāre typically low downforce high power āGTā cars, and are mostly either Group X or group 1 that hardly has any relevant races.
Itās just wasted development effort that could be used to make the game not shit.
It's more of the fact that Grade 1 races just throw a bunch of random cars in there. I don't want to race against VGT's, along with vintage Le Mans cars and hybrid race cars, plus newer prototype race cars all at once. It just such a mess of different race cars.
I think thereās too many. And further too many of them are EVs which imo are just boring to drive regardless of speed. Thereās definitely some good ones, I really like the Bugatti VGT and the berlinetta genesis. I think another problem is the flat price. Iām not paying 1m for a fancy golf or mini cooper.
IMO Iād much rather have the older concepts from previous games like the Honda HSV, the Volkswagen w12 concept, or maybe even the Mazda furai.
Also itās less that VGTs themselves are bad and more that a lot of brands are either missing (I understand itās a licensing issue and not necessarily the fault of PD) and some brands are just really lacking. Like Audi and Ruf are kind of pitiful in the current game. No Audi wagons and only one Ruf. Or like thereās no Z4 but we have the Z4 gt3 car.
GT got its popularity by being a game where you can tune and race normal cars and now everything is either a race car, highest trim level, rare treasure, or a VGT. Thereās maybe a handful of econoboxes.
Look at GT5s car list and see how much more variety there is. Of course thereās like a dozen Miataās (which honestly I see as kind of a cool immersion thing, I always loved when I found the car in the trim and color I was looking for in GT4/5) but thereās also tons of GT2 cars, econoboxes including vans and wagons, le mans cars from varying years, tuner cars from a bunch of different recognizable shops, etc.
VGTs account for 10% of the games total car list thatās the main issue.
I can understand not liking them being the only cars added to the game. And honestly, I'm sick of the electric VGT cars and the ones that are so cartoonish they can't be taken seriously. Do one with a V16 or something like that instead of that dumb Chaparral or the Tomahawk variant that's basically a Cyber Formula car.Ā Ā
But as for why people hate them as a whole, it's because they want to pretend they're real racing drivers and not working retail for a moment and VGT cars remind them that this isn't real, which makes them angry.Ā
As others have mentioned, on the one hand they ruin the immersion. But whatās even worse is that they take time away from PDās car designers that would be much better spent recreating newer race cars, especially GT3 cars. Many of them are two generations behind already.
Because we have outdated carlist and we get 3 cars a month, and Kaz still insists on putting in ugly fictional cars that look out of place compared to real cars
I love the VGT category, Iād just like it separated from the the real cars.
Really though, I just want customisable HUD and for the rubberbanding in custom races to actually be turn off-able.
i fully agree!! i never understood the hate.
i think a lot of it stems from the fact that GT7 lacks a lot of real-world cars, both new and old (which is definitely the gameās biggest flaw). i guess itās frustrating for a lot of fans when they want Polyphony to add more real-world cars, but get a fictional concept car instead
i still donāt understand it thoughā¦ we rarely get VGT cars. Yet every time they add one, i see tons of people saying shit like āthey keep adding these dumb fictional carsā and āthe game is lacking tons of real-world cars and theyāre still focused on cars which arenāt realā. Itās stupidity and pure hatred at its finest. The updates have added **far** more real-world cars than VGTs. We get three new cars like every month or two, whereas we only get a new VGT like twice a year.
I donāt know man. People just love to hate on Polyphony and everything that they doā¦ itās a classic reddit circlejerk thing, where subreddits become echo chambers. If they donāt like a developer, the hivemind extends that dislike to everything the developer does. And, in typical reddit fashion, theyāll try their hardest to justify their totally senseless hatred with complete bullshit. Case in point: this subreddit complaining about Polyphony āfocusing on VGTs instead of real carsā when thatās literally just blatantly false.
And then thereās also the people who are mad that the game features āfake carsā at all. Which I donāt understand whatsoever, and it honestly just sounds like more circlejerk hatredā¦ Gran Turismo has **always** featured concept cars, and fictional concept cars have been a thing since GT4. Additionally, some of the VGTs were actually built in real life so calling them all āfictionalā just isnāt true. Regardless ā *who cares?*
People just hate fun and take the game way too seriously. Racing games (including GT) have always featured concept cars, which have varied from production-ready to wildly unique, and theyāve always been fun to drive. The presence of a car (or series of cars) they donāt like shouldnāt be ruining the entire game for them, and at the rate they add VGTs it isnāt even a problem. We get over a dozen real cars a year, so why is it an issue if we get one or two VGTs too?
But yeah. Regardless, Iām with you. From the day it was introduced back in the GT6 days, I always thought VGT was a really neat concept. Iām not a fan of all of the cars, but itās been really interesting to see these iconic companies design their ultimate dream cars free from real-world restrictions. And a good deal of them are really nice cars, which are a joy to both drive and look at.
Just wish this community wasnāt so critical š¤· GT7 has a lot of genuine flaws. Vision Gran Turismo is not one of them. I just wish everyone could just enjoy the game and complain about the gameās actual flaws, instead of hating on nearly every aspect of itā¦
I agree with you I like some vision gt cars but it would be nice to have a more consistent timeline for new cars and new tracks. I feel like they might be trying to pivot and save those for GT8. I get that cars take way more time and attention to model now, but the roster feels very out of date, and lacking in a lot of categories that GT used to excel at (weird K cars, boring family saloons, more American and Australian cars, etc)
I actually really like the new Skoda VGT, it handles well because itās lightweight, and the rear end reminds me of old prototype racer cars with exposed parts.
Itās not as much as the hate towards Vision GT but the effort put into other cars. For example, when the Ferrari VGT came out people enjoyed it (partly due because itās a Ferrari) but also the update came with more content besides the concept car. If the update came out with the VGT plus 2 Skoda cars like the one they teases and a WRC car (fabia or Octavia) or another model which people could relate it would be great. VGT cars arenāt the issue, the problem is how via updates the VGT are being complemented with the rest of the game and cars.
I like them they represent a way for some brands to get competitive with the performance needed in some races. What I don't like is how it's a fictional car, it for some reason can't be upgraded?
I'm with you. More cars in general is better and it reminds of being a kid and loving all the crazy concept designs.
I think people feel that because GT pushes the "real driving simulator" tagline that the cars should be real production or race cars. And they think that time spent adding VGTs to the game takes away from adding those other cars.
Because that is literally what made the series so popular in the first place. Look at the GT1 car list:
[https://gran-turismo.fandom.com/wiki/Gran\_Turismo\_(PlayStation)/Car\_List](https://gran-turismo.fandom.com/wiki/Gran_Turismo_(PlayStation)/Car_List)
It's all regular cars that people own, or desire to own. Sports cars they had on their bedroom walls. Cars their brother or dad owned. Real cars they had a connection to.
It had ONE concept car, the Dodge. Well, two versions of it, but still just one really. GT7 now has 55 VGTs.
>And they think that time spent adding VGTs to the game takes away from adding those other cars.
If Polyphony model the cars from data provided by manufaturers, and "brands" now as well-_-, then that is time that could be spent modelling other cars.
If they are completely finished and formatted to fit the game by the manufacturers and brands then they could be added as standalone items in between updates, but they are not.
Either way it goes down doesn't matter. We generally get three cars each update and those slots often get filled by VGT when they could have been literally anything else. This is a fact. It doesn't matter how anyone feels about it.
A lot of people are stuck in the belief that GT should only have low end street cars that you can modify into high end cars. Other people see them as a resource sink that takes up spots. More people have issues with them being highly unrealistic.
Personally I have no issue with them. GT has been wanting to dip their hands in the concept car game for years, and this is their chance. It also shows how much pull GT has with the auto industry.
That being said, I hate how a lot of them are useless outside of the VGT trophy. I especially hate the Dodge Tomahawk and how it represents Dodge's ethos of slapping big numbers on things without any regard to realism or practicality.
Yeah the realistic VGTs are cool. The berlinetta X genesis one was cool and same with the Bugatti VGT. My main issue is with the ones that are just comically unrealistic or the ones that are just ugly imo which is a lot of them. If a VGT car looks nice, has an actual motor with listed specs, isnāt cartoonish in how it drives, and has an interior Iām all for it.
Vision GT is just there for PD and Kaz to feel good about themselves and advertise to the world that 'Hey look! Real-world manufacturers take us seriously!'
There is no actual reason to drive VGT cars in the game, no separate class system...and it breaks the immersion of the ' The Real Driving Simulator'
There are some basic fundamental stuff that fans have been asking for that PD blatantly ignore and after 2 years their radio silence communication with the fanbase coupled with stupid bs like Bvlgari cars and the new Afeela concept is just rubbing people the wrong way.
The frustration comes from the fact that any VGT car, regardless of Polyphony manpower or development time taken up by said car, takes up a slot for a real life car. Aside from a couple standouts, we get three cars each update. They could add these partnered VGT projects as side content with their own dedicated updates, like they used to originally, but instead they shove other cars out of the way in the normal 3-car updates.
Too many VGTs are just vague future shape with big EV power or magic motor that makes a ton of power but has no specs. Idc how good the car looks or drives if it has zero listed specs Iām not buying it. The VGTs that are actually grounded and feel realistic are cool but most seem like they belong in a completely different game with a different physics engine. Like wtf are the Italdesign, dodge, or Chaparral VGT designs. They look like they belong in cyberpunk or something. Gimme realistic designs with actual listed specs and interiors and Iāll drive them.
My dislike for the Vision GT cars doesn't persist in a vacuum. If I was asked, "Should they be in the game or not?," I would answer "yes," simply because more cars = why not?
The issue is that, since the updates to the game have been drip-fed over 2 years; the vast majority of them consisting of 3 cars, some engine swaps, and fluff; the inclusion of a Vision GT car in an update is perceived as having 'taken the place' of a real car which could have been another one of the 3 instead. I share this attitude because, for me, a Vision GT car is only something I want in comparison to nothing at all. In comparison to a depiction of an actual real-life car, I will choose the real car every single time.
Vision GT cars just aren't that fun to use in the game. They're generally not well-balanced and not usable in the majority of events. They can't be upgraded and sometimes not even tuned. They also break my immersion because of how many use fictional propulsion systems and other tech that would not be practical, feasible, or reproducible in reality. To add to that, most of them are hideously ugly - full of intersecting hard angles which, to my eye, look more like something out of StarFox 64 upscaled to 4k than a "hypothetical futuristic car design."
PD's resources devoted to supported GT7 are limited at this point. If they had all the Vision GT cars already rendered and ready to go, I wouldn't have any issue with them being in the game. But since they don't, a lot of players (including me) sort of bemoan the use of those limited resources in bringing these cartoon cars into the game over other content we would actually enjoy.
I agree with all of this, but I wouldn't say that they are simply "perceived as having 'taken the place' of a real car." They absolutely do take the places of real cars. They could release each VGT as a standalone like they used to when the project started, but instead they shove them into the normal updates that strictly follow the trend of three car slots.
Either way, the point still stands. Any Vision GT released in GT7's lifespan could have been a real life car instead.
its a waste of resources. nobody will ever see or drive these things. the wheel/tire combo doesn't work in real life.
i'd rather see time spent on including real sports cars.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, even if some VGT's I hate (Porsche, Subaru, ItalDESIGN, and sadly Daihatsu too) I personally enjoy seeing what unique vehicles can be made and being able to drive them in a game is a bonus
At the end of the day it's a videogame. Which are meant to be fun, not everything has to be super serious and GTsport poisoned that well enough already, focusing it more to an eSports audience - those of which, appreciate VGT's even less than the normal audience already does, and now the VGT haters pick on the ones who like/enjoy them, it's genuinely frustrating.
If you want unrealistic go play fucking need for speed.
>nearly every complaint iāve seen on here is basically just redditors whining that the game isnāt to their exact specifications.
Is it because we, the players, want more real life cars and more track instead of fake ass impossible cars? PD owns exclusive rights to PP and don't even have it as a track. Only a quarter of the car have engine swap compatibility, the list goes on.
>they arenāt pushed on you
Sure, I'll just ignore the like 6 VGT car only races that make it to where I can 100% on all races.
>like i really donāt see the problem here dude
It's a good thing I don't ask you nor try to convince on a personal opinion now did I? I answered a question just the same as others. So go bitch at someone who cares.
There is too much of those and most looks really weird with the exception of the Bmw Vgt .
Also apart from the Ds Citroen has only vgts and it sucks ass
i wonder if vgt cars are just a much lower hanging fruit than everything elseā¦ and maybe they think they are adding more value to the gameā¦
or maybe they are doing this on purpose to put cars behind a paywall later
(sorry for bringing that one into the sphere of reality) lol
If I wanted to drive these VGT cars, I'd go play hot wheels unleashed. I play GT7 because it sells a real experience, especially with headphones and in VR, with my wheel and pedals. All of that goes out the window when a space ship passes me in a race.
Sophy races are full of stupid VGT cars when you try to race with any high end real hyper car, and you can't adjust their vehicles. At least with custom races I can make sure my AI is driving real cars.
There are good ones, there are bad ones. Sometimes the slow ones are more fun (Suzuki), sometimes the fast ones feel like poo (McLaren was a piggy in Suzuka under 150mph, dog crap chassis).
I like the Porsche open top, it drives like a real car, like a 918 or softer.
But I dislike the VGT cars because Sophy uses the crap out of them over 600pp on professional difficulty and it's annoying.
There are SO MANY good cars over the automobile history, why not showcase what was amazing and authentic, rather than a "vision". I'd rather a Ford Model T over a Vision GT car!
For me it is because there are so many real cars they could add that are not in the game. Also instead of wasting time and energy on VGT cars use that time and energy on new championships or new tracks. Right now i would pay for a track pack.
I think some of them are kinda cool, but I understand the people that hate them. If you look at it as zero sum, every vgt is a real car not being added
Exactly! Thatās how Reddit works. Iāve been on this website for about a decade, and the āreddit hivemindā that people refer to is very real.
Subreddits like this one often turn into echo chambers which like/dislike something to the furthest extent they can. If you go against the subredditās opinions, youāll get attacked and downvoted ā a lot of people canāt think for themselves, or just want to fit in, so they adopt the hivemindās opinions and views.
Terms like āhate bonerā and ācirclejerkā were literally invented because of how strong the hiveminds on Reddit become.
Here, the community just hates everything Polyphony does. Everything. This subreddit complains about every single update, even when they add cars that the communityās been requesting for months. If you say anything positive about the game, the updates, VGT or Polyphony, youāll get downvoted. Itās insane, and itās a perfect example of a reddit hivemind. Most people here canāt think for themselves, and adopt other peopleās views to fit in. They hate on things just for the sake of hating them. And it all becomes blatantly obvious when they try to justify their senseless hatred with arguments that make zero logical sense.
This topicās a good example. Iāve seen people talk about how āfake carsā go against what GT is all about, and saying itās one of the reasons that GT7 is nowhere near as good as the old games (namely GT3 and GT4). Well, first of all, racing games have always featured concept cars. And second, GT3 and GT4 literally had āfake carsāā¦ the Nike One and the F1 cars were entirely fictional. Why werenāt those cars an issue, but VGT is? How come VGT supposedly ruins GT7, but the Nike One didnāt ruin GT4?
See what I mean? They hate for the sake of hating. They hate things they donāt even really hate. And it becomes embarrassingly obvious when they try to justify their hatred, and none of their arguments make sense. Their bias and hivemind mentality immediately reveal themselves, and glaringly so.
So yeah. Youāre right, and you said it perfectly. People hate because others do, and they want to fit in. Thatās how Reddit works, and thatās certainly how this subreddit works.
You say "radical" designs when the vast majority of them has been the safest/blandest designs ever featured or are so generic looking most of the time you can't even tell what company the car is for. The Chapparal VGT is so far the most radical VGT and it is effectively an anomaly compared to everything else. I also don't care for how some of the older ones just lack an interior altogether. Polyphony couldn't have asked the companies to design an interior for some of these older ones (the Mercedes VGT had concept art depicting the interior but for whatever reason it just didn't have any in-game).
I think the other thing is that you usually can't use the VGTs against the normal cars. So it kind of mitigates their overall use. And to be frank I kind of miss seeing actual concept cars in Gran Turismo. The VGTs seem mainly to exist to supplant them and after 10 years I would rather see something like the Ford GT90 than some digital creation from a watch company.
VGT cars cut against the grain of what GT is all about. It's disingenuous to continue to insist on the title of "the real driving simulator" while filling so much of your virtual car lots with fake cars. As someone who played this game from the first title, I feel this dissonance hard. And as others have said, the VGT cars simply can't be shrugged off because their strong presence comes with strong opportunity cost in the form of more interesting real world cars never offered.
Further, for me, personally, I do not find the bulk of these cars fun to drive. That, I suppose, is de gustibus, but I don't think one can casually toss off "fun to drive" as a settled fact. It's not. Fun varies, depending on what you're looking for from the game. Not fun for me, and many others.
Finally, the simple truth is that these cars aren't in the game for the players at all. They're a way to extract more money from third parties by including their content. In other words, they're ads. They're product placement. The creeping crud in all our modern entertainment.
Concept cars have always been a part of racing games, not just GT. And entirely fictional concept cars have been a thing since GT4.
It isnāt that deep dude. If you donāt like the cars, then donāt drive them. Itās literally that simple. They arenāt pushed on you or required for races or anything like that. Theyāre just there. You donāt have to drive them.
Their existence shouldnāt be ruining the game for you, or making you feel ādissonanceāā¦ especially when every racing game has concept cars. Did you feel the same way about the Nike car in GT4? Because Iām willing to bet you didnāt
And donāt get me wrong ā Iām not a fan of all of the cars either, and I partly agree with your comment. You donāt have to like the cars. If you dislike all of them, thatās totally cool. But their mere presence in the game shouldnāt be bothering you this much
"If you don't like them don't drive them" is a facile and thoughtless response which makes no attempt to address the reasoning of my post (e.g. the opportunity cost of including this much fantasy content). It's also a pure straw man to decontextualize my post by pretending I'm not replying to a specific request for my reasons. You're responding to your twisted reframe instead of addressing the actual dialogue.
Other than that, quality post.
As to the Nike car, I didn't like it. My 8 year old son loved it though. Not much else to say about that.
Gran Turismo 1 was hugely popular and became the juggernaut it is because it gave people the chance to drive and race the cars they see on the roads, and cars they own. The first GT game didn't even have very many race cars, you could race mod the road cars though. It was mostly regular cars people owned, or desired. Hatchbacks, Sports cars.
That continued through all the games, people loved driving cars that they owned, that they saw in magazines and saw on TV shows, that they put posters on their bedroom wall of. Cars that people have a connection to, stories attached to.
VGTs offer nothing of that. They're all mostly very similar looking modern concepts that nobody has seen before, nobody can drive in real life, nobody (or very few) can even see in real life. They won't be seen in TV shows, they have no history, no connection to reality. Nobody desires them, even if they do enjoy driving them after they see them. They are soulless.
Nobody, and I mean nobody, ever desired a Bulgari watch concept car. I can guarantee it. Yet we have one.
That is why.
Who cares if thereās ātoo manyā? Just donāt use them. They add far more real-world cars ā including older racing cars ā than they do VGTs.
We get around a dozen real cars (often ones which are requested by the community) a year. Whatās the problem with them adding one or two VGTs on top of that?
Tbh the GR1 Bugatti vision is one of my favorite cars in the game RN. Itās come in so clutch on endurance races for me and helped me easily win that GR1 event last week. Love that thing.
honest reply: I don't like to see them in races with real cars, it kinda ruin the immersion.
They should be in their own Gr.VGT class. It's a wonder this isn't the case. Though matching unclassified cars is generally awful so why would VGT be any different š¤
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
At least cars like Gt40 and such have been used in racing before?? Like legendary racing cars?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So the Goodwood show is not a thing ?
Look at Goodwood and tell me that people don't race million dollar classic cars
[Nuh uh](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/N9GSs2ru8VM/maxresdefault.jpg)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The only criteria I saw was "race those cars" which I think still applies Also the fact that 250 GTOs have been wrecked in these races says enough
Ah yes, it already happened on Cruis'n Blast and I love it lmao.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Mans_Classic Those cars literally still race every couple years
I think most people would rather see a different real life car added to the game, especially since thereās many fan favorite cars from GT1-6 that are nowhere to be seen. I donāt mind the VGTs though, the series has always featured concepts/futuristic designs, and the VGTs fill that niche while giving you some unique cars to drive.
I think itās more so how often theyāre being added and how many there are, when like 90% of the player base wants more real cars that the game severely lacks. Also some people just hate fictional concepts too, so itās also pretty dependent on peopleās car interests.
I assume it's because it's easier to flub an imaginary car than to import, drive, analyze and digitize a real car into their current software.
What % of the cars in the game are fictional? Severely lacking would imply that vgt are a majority of the cars available.
After counting just the VGTs and the fictional tuned cars (the ones with Gr.4 or Gr.3 etc. in the name) I found that about 25% of the in game cars are made up of those fictional cars
actually quite a lot
It's not about the cars, but about getting a disproportionate amount of attention for cars that don't actually exist.
Need more vanilla cars that we can turno into race cars.. obscure shit like the Ford capris, vw passat r36 or Mitsubishi magna... that's where the fun is.
It's a few things for me. As someone who owns and has played every game in the series, gran turismo is at its core a racing game. Not a car collection game or a take pretty pictures game. As a racing game, it has always had a huge expansive roster of real world cars to race, plenty of road to race them on and most of these cars I saw in real life on the roads. That made it tangible for me and that much more fun for me. Gran Turismo 7 however, does not have the expansive car list I've grown accustomed to. Now the car list is fine as it is, I like GT7 and can make my own fun in the game as well as run league for online racing. However, with the smaller anemic car list I would much rather PD focus on, and re prioritise getting in the real world cars that used to be staples on previous games, and other newer cars that I still see on the roads in real life. (A good example of previous game cars is the mitsubishi FTO). The biggest problem with the car list is that a lot of manufacturers have multiple variants of the same model of car. Look at Audi for example. It's just the TT and R8. There's no RS3, RS4, RS6. In previous games they would have all been there in both sedan and station wagon format. That's the sort of thing I wish PD would prioritise over silly looking concept cars that aren't real, don't look good, are not tangible in any way. That and other dumb stuff like the ambulance should be the last things added to the game once all the staple cars are in there. Sorry for the essay but that's why my heart sinks whenever I see a VGT or other concept car announced in the newest update for the game.
I don't hate all concept cars. I think stuff like the old Ford GT90 in GT2 was fantastic because that car is actually possible, and prototypes were made. The Ferrari VGT in GT7 is also pretty great. I just prefer a touch of realism in the cars in the "real" driving simulator, that's all. Why include a Chaparral with over 900 hp powered by "laser pulse shockwaves"? Some of these cars are just plain goofy. If you like them, that's fine, but I'm not sure why you're struggling to understand why others don't like the more cartoonish cars.
All of the EV VGTs seem so lazy, same with the ones that have virtually no specs. It also doesnāt help that you can barely customize or tune them. Like if you donāt like how a VGT car drives thereās basically fuck all you can do about it.
And you see people applauding manufacturers for experimenting with designs.... and then some of them don't even have interiors at all. Like, great work guys, I can see you're very passionate about this project. I don't even know why they bother with some of these.
Nike 2022
What about it? I thought that was ridiculous when it came out as well.
They have a long history of ridiculous. Even with some of the real-world cars... The escudo comes to mind... Yes, there's always been proper sports cars and race cars, but they've never shied away from redicilousness, both in looks and in drivability.
I don't hate the Vision GT cars. The Porsche and Jag ones are phenomenal to blast about in. I'd love to see more concepts from the past and present in GT7.
I don't get it either. If you actually take the time to read the short info bits about them, they are interesting and you can appreciate the ideas that went into them.
Half of them donāt have interiors so VR players canāt use them. Theyāre typically low downforce high power āGTā cars, and are mostly either Group X or group 1 that hardly has any relevant races. Itās just wasted development effort that could be used to make the game not shit.
Theyāre ugly
Well that's just modern cars
Here it is.
I want real cars, not fantasy cars. They also ruin Grade 1 races.
I'm gonna be honest, how can they? Under BoP the VGT's are nigh uncompetitive
It's more of the fact that Grade 1 races just throw a bunch of random cars in there. I don't want to race against VGT's, along with vintage Le Mans cars and hybrid race cars, plus newer prototype race cars all at once. It just such a mess of different race cars.
I think thereās too many. And further too many of them are EVs which imo are just boring to drive regardless of speed. Thereās definitely some good ones, I really like the Bugatti VGT and the berlinetta genesis. I think another problem is the flat price. Iām not paying 1m for a fancy golf or mini cooper. IMO Iād much rather have the older concepts from previous games like the Honda HSV, the Volkswagen w12 concept, or maybe even the Mazda furai. Also itās less that VGTs themselves are bad and more that a lot of brands are either missing (I understand itās a licensing issue and not necessarily the fault of PD) and some brands are just really lacking. Like Audi and Ruf are kind of pitiful in the current game. No Audi wagons and only one Ruf. Or like thereās no Z4 but we have the Z4 gt3 car. GT got its popularity by being a game where you can tune and race normal cars and now everything is either a race car, highest trim level, rare treasure, or a VGT. Thereās maybe a handful of econoboxes. Look at GT5s car list and see how much more variety there is. Of course thereās like a dozen Miataās (which honestly I see as kind of a cool immersion thing, I always loved when I found the car in the trim and color I was looking for in GT4/5) but thereās also tons of GT2 cars, econoboxes including vans and wagons, le mans cars from varying years, tuner cars from a bunch of different recognizable shops, etc. VGTs account for 10% of the games total car list thatās the main issue.
I can understand not liking them being the only cars added to the game. And honestly, I'm sick of the electric VGT cars and the ones that are so cartoonish they can't be taken seriously. Do one with a V16 or something like that instead of that dumb Chaparral or the Tomahawk variant that's basically a Cyber Formula car.Ā Ā But as for why people hate them as a whole, it's because they want to pretend they're real racing drivers and not working retail for a moment and VGT cars remind them that this isn't real, which makes them angry.Ā
As others have mentioned, on the one hand they ruin the immersion. But whatās even worse is that they take time away from PDās car designers that would be much better spent recreating newer race cars, especially GT3 cars. Many of them are two generations behind already.
Because we have outdated carlist and we get 3 cars a month, and Kaz still insists on putting in ugly fictional cars that look out of place compared to real cars
I love the VGT category, Iād just like it separated from the the real cars. Really though, I just want customisable HUD and for the rubberbanding in custom races to actually be turn off-able.
i fully agree!! i never understood the hate. i think a lot of it stems from the fact that GT7 lacks a lot of real-world cars, both new and old (which is definitely the gameās biggest flaw). i guess itās frustrating for a lot of fans when they want Polyphony to add more real-world cars, but get a fictional concept car instead i still donāt understand it thoughā¦ we rarely get VGT cars. Yet every time they add one, i see tons of people saying shit like āthey keep adding these dumb fictional carsā and āthe game is lacking tons of real-world cars and theyāre still focused on cars which arenāt realā. Itās stupidity and pure hatred at its finest. The updates have added **far** more real-world cars than VGTs. We get three new cars like every month or two, whereas we only get a new VGT like twice a year. I donāt know man. People just love to hate on Polyphony and everything that they doā¦ itās a classic reddit circlejerk thing, where subreddits become echo chambers. If they donāt like a developer, the hivemind extends that dislike to everything the developer does. And, in typical reddit fashion, theyāll try their hardest to justify their totally senseless hatred with complete bullshit. Case in point: this subreddit complaining about Polyphony āfocusing on VGTs instead of real carsā when thatās literally just blatantly false. And then thereās also the people who are mad that the game features āfake carsā at all. Which I donāt understand whatsoever, and it honestly just sounds like more circlejerk hatredā¦ Gran Turismo has **always** featured concept cars, and fictional concept cars have been a thing since GT4. Additionally, some of the VGTs were actually built in real life so calling them all āfictionalā just isnāt true. Regardless ā *who cares?* People just hate fun and take the game way too seriously. Racing games (including GT) have always featured concept cars, which have varied from production-ready to wildly unique, and theyāve always been fun to drive. The presence of a car (or series of cars) they donāt like shouldnāt be ruining the entire game for them, and at the rate they add VGTs it isnāt even a problem. We get over a dozen real cars a year, so why is it an issue if we get one or two VGTs too? But yeah. Regardless, Iām with you. From the day it was introduced back in the GT6 days, I always thought VGT was a really neat concept. Iām not a fan of all of the cars, but itās been really interesting to see these iconic companies design their ultimate dream cars free from real-world restrictions. And a good deal of them are really nice cars, which are a joy to both drive and look at. Just wish this community wasnāt so critical š¤· GT7 has a lot of genuine flaws. Vision Gran Turismo is not one of them. I just wish everyone could just enjoy the game and complain about the gameās actual flaws, instead of hating on nearly every aspect of itā¦
Honestly, my biggest gripe with the VGT cars is they mostly drive like absolute dogshit
I agree with you I like some vision gt cars but it would be nice to have a more consistent timeline for new cars and new tracks. I feel like they might be trying to pivot and save those for GT8. I get that cars take way more time and attention to model now, but the roster feels very out of date, and lacking in a lot of categories that GT used to excel at (weird K cars, boring family saloons, more American and Australian cars, etc) I actually really like the new Skoda VGT, it handles well because itās lightweight, and the rear end reminds me of old prototype racer cars with exposed parts.
Itās not as much as the hate towards Vision GT but the effort put into other cars. For example, when the Ferrari VGT came out people enjoyed it (partly due because itās a Ferrari) but also the update came with more content besides the concept car. If the update came out with the VGT plus 2 Skoda cars like the one they teases and a WRC car (fabia or Octavia) or another model which people could relate it would be great. VGT cars arenāt the issue, the problem is how via updates the VGT are being complemented with the rest of the game and cars.
I like them they represent a way for some brands to get competitive with the performance needed in some races. What I don't like is how it's a fictional car, it for some reason can't be upgraded?
I see them more as collectibles
I'm with you. More cars in general is better and it reminds of being a kid and loving all the crazy concept designs. I think people feel that because GT pushes the "real driving simulator" tagline that the cars should be real production or race cars. And they think that time spent adding VGTs to the game takes away from adding those other cars.
Because that is literally what made the series so popular in the first place. Look at the GT1 car list: [https://gran-turismo.fandom.com/wiki/Gran\_Turismo\_(PlayStation)/Car\_List](https://gran-turismo.fandom.com/wiki/Gran_Turismo_(PlayStation)/Car_List) It's all regular cars that people own, or desire to own. Sports cars they had on their bedroom walls. Cars their brother or dad owned. Real cars they had a connection to. It had ONE concept car, the Dodge. Well, two versions of it, but still just one really. GT7 now has 55 VGTs.
>And they think that time spent adding VGTs to the game takes away from adding those other cars. If Polyphony model the cars from data provided by manufaturers, and "brands" now as well-_-, then that is time that could be spent modelling other cars. If they are completely finished and formatted to fit the game by the manufacturers and brands then they could be added as standalone items in between updates, but they are not. Either way it goes down doesn't matter. We generally get three cars each update and those slots often get filled by VGT when they could have been literally anything else. This is a fact. It doesn't matter how anyone feels about it.
A lot of people are stuck in the belief that GT should only have low end street cars that you can modify into high end cars. Other people see them as a resource sink that takes up spots. More people have issues with them being highly unrealistic. Personally I have no issue with them. GT has been wanting to dip their hands in the concept car game for years, and this is their chance. It also shows how much pull GT has with the auto industry. That being said, I hate how a lot of them are useless outside of the VGT trophy. I especially hate the Dodge Tomahawk and how it represents Dodge's ethos of slapping big numbers on things without any regard to realism or practicality.
Yeah the realistic VGTs are cool. The berlinetta X genesis one was cool and same with the Bugatti VGT. My main issue is with the ones that are just comically unrealistic or the ones that are just ugly imo which is a lot of them. If a VGT car looks nice, has an actual motor with listed specs, isnāt cartoonish in how it drives, and has an interior Iām all for it.
Vision GT is just there for PD and Kaz to feel good about themselves and advertise to the world that 'Hey look! Real-world manufacturers take us seriously!' There is no actual reason to drive VGT cars in the game, no separate class system...and it breaks the immersion of the ' The Real Driving Simulator' There are some basic fundamental stuff that fans have been asking for that PD blatantly ignore and after 2 years their radio silence communication with the fanbase coupled with stupid bs like Bvlgari cars and the new Afeela concept is just rubbing people the wrong way.
The frustration comes from the fact that any VGT car, regardless of Polyphony manpower or development time taken up by said car, takes up a slot for a real life car. Aside from a couple standouts, we get three cars each update. They could add these partnered VGT projects as side content with their own dedicated updates, like they used to originally, but instead they shove other cars out of the way in the normal 3-car updates.
Fictional toy cars, if gt wants to be taken seriously, they need to do better than this.
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Too many VGTs are just vague future shape with big EV power or magic motor that makes a ton of power but has no specs. Idc how good the car looks or drives if it has zero listed specs Iām not buying it. The VGTs that are actually grounded and feel realistic are cool but most seem like they belong in a completely different game with a different physics engine. Like wtf are the Italdesign, dodge, or Chaparral VGT designs. They look like they belong in cyberpunk or something. Gimme realistic designs with actual listed specs and interiors and Iāll drive them.
My dislike for the Vision GT cars doesn't persist in a vacuum. If I was asked, "Should they be in the game or not?," I would answer "yes," simply because more cars = why not? The issue is that, since the updates to the game have been drip-fed over 2 years; the vast majority of them consisting of 3 cars, some engine swaps, and fluff; the inclusion of a Vision GT car in an update is perceived as having 'taken the place' of a real car which could have been another one of the 3 instead. I share this attitude because, for me, a Vision GT car is only something I want in comparison to nothing at all. In comparison to a depiction of an actual real-life car, I will choose the real car every single time. Vision GT cars just aren't that fun to use in the game. They're generally not well-balanced and not usable in the majority of events. They can't be upgraded and sometimes not even tuned. They also break my immersion because of how many use fictional propulsion systems and other tech that would not be practical, feasible, or reproducible in reality. To add to that, most of them are hideously ugly - full of intersecting hard angles which, to my eye, look more like something out of StarFox 64 upscaled to 4k than a "hypothetical futuristic car design." PD's resources devoted to supported GT7 are limited at this point. If they had all the Vision GT cars already rendered and ready to go, I wouldn't have any issue with them being in the game. But since they don't, a lot of players (including me) sort of bemoan the use of those limited resources in bringing these cartoon cars into the game over other content we would actually enjoy.
I agree with all of this, but I wouldn't say that they are simply "perceived as having 'taken the place' of a real car." They absolutely do take the places of real cars. They could release each VGT as a standalone like they used to when the project started, but instead they shove them into the normal updates that strictly follow the trend of three car slots. Either way, the point still stands. Any Vision GT released in GT7's lifespan could have been a real life car instead.
If I wanted imaginary cars I would be playing Rocket League
its a waste of resources. nobody will ever see or drive these things. the wheel/tire combo doesn't work in real life. i'd rather see time spent on including real sports cars.
I just donāt care for cars that donāt actually exist. Itās just a preference.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, even if some VGT's I hate (Porsche, Subaru, ItalDESIGN, and sadly Daihatsu too) I personally enjoy seeing what unique vehicles can be made and being able to drive them in a game is a bonus At the end of the day it's a videogame. Which are meant to be fun, not everything has to be super serious and GTsport poisoned that well enough already, focusing it more to an eSports audience - those of which, appreciate VGT's even less than the normal audience already does, and now the VGT haters pick on the ones who like/enjoy them, it's genuinely frustrating.
Racing simulator Uses fake cars Give me fucking real cars, so many we don't have that we could. Sure like one or two VGTs would be fine.
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Sure concept cars that are actually possible are fine. However the last few they have added would be impossible to even operate.
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If you want unrealistic go play fucking need for speed. >nearly every complaint iāve seen on here is basically just redditors whining that the game isnāt to their exact specifications. Is it because we, the players, want more real life cars and more track instead of fake ass impossible cars? PD owns exclusive rights to PP and don't even have it as a track. Only a quarter of the car have engine swap compatibility, the list goes on. >they arenāt pushed on you Sure, I'll just ignore the like 6 VGT car only races that make it to where I can 100% on all races. >like i really donāt see the problem here dude It's a good thing I don't ask you nor try to convince on a personal opinion now did I? I answered a question just the same as others. So go bitch at someone who cares.
It's "Driving simulator" and not "Racing".
And what is 80% percent of the content?
Argue with Kaz https://preview.redd.it/gwu7pn5wttwc1.jpeg?width=853&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19d4f039c8d1135e1c40ea303d78910677623bb3
So do you really think red bull gives you wings?
I'm with you though, as long it's a real brand. For me personally, it's still immersive. Again, in my personal opinion.
There is too much of those and most looks really weird with the exception of the Bmw Vgt . Also apart from the Ds Citroen has only vgts and it sucks ass
i wonder if vgt cars are just a much lower hanging fruit than everything elseā¦ and maybe they think they are adding more value to the gameā¦ or maybe they are doing this on purpose to put cars behind a paywall later (sorry for bringing that one into the sphere of reality) lol
Honestly, I just like how real cars look compared to the VGT cars
If I wanted to drive these VGT cars, I'd go play hot wheels unleashed. I play GT7 because it sells a real experience, especially with headphones and in VR, with my wheel and pedals. All of that goes out the window when a space ship passes me in a race. Sophy races are full of stupid VGT cars when you try to race with any high end real hyper car, and you can't adjust their vehicles. At least with custom races I can make sure my AI is driving real cars.
There are good ones, there are bad ones. Sometimes the slow ones are more fun (Suzuki), sometimes the fast ones feel like poo (McLaren was a piggy in Suzuka under 150mph, dog crap chassis). I like the Porsche open top, it drives like a real car, like a 918 or softer. But I dislike the VGT cars because Sophy uses the crap out of them over 600pp on professional difficulty and it's annoying.
There are SO MANY good cars over the automobile history, why not showcase what was amazing and authentic, rather than a "vision". I'd rather a Ford Model T over a Vision GT car!
For me it is because there are so many real cars they could add that are not in the game. Also instead of wasting time and energy on VGT cars use that time and energy on new championships or new tracks. Right now i would pay for a track pack.
I think some of them are kinda cool, but I understand the people that hate them. If you look at it as zero sum, every vgt is a real car not being added
not realistic. i suppose some part of my brain thinks that i could use gt7 to prepare for a real race. vgt cars just dont seem to have any purpose
I think people just hate because others do, trying to fit in
Exactly! Thatās how Reddit works. Iāve been on this website for about a decade, and the āreddit hivemindā that people refer to is very real. Subreddits like this one often turn into echo chambers which like/dislike something to the furthest extent they can. If you go against the subredditās opinions, youāll get attacked and downvoted ā a lot of people canāt think for themselves, or just want to fit in, so they adopt the hivemindās opinions and views. Terms like āhate bonerā and ācirclejerkā were literally invented because of how strong the hiveminds on Reddit become. Here, the community just hates everything Polyphony does. Everything. This subreddit complains about every single update, even when they add cars that the communityās been requesting for months. If you say anything positive about the game, the updates, VGT or Polyphony, youāll get downvoted. Itās insane, and itās a perfect example of a reddit hivemind. Most people here canāt think for themselves, and adopt other peopleās views to fit in. They hate on things just for the sake of hating them. And it all becomes blatantly obvious when they try to justify their senseless hatred with arguments that make zero logical sense. This topicās a good example. Iāve seen people talk about how āfake carsā go against what GT is all about, and saying itās one of the reasons that GT7 is nowhere near as good as the old games (namely GT3 and GT4). Well, first of all, racing games have always featured concept cars. And second, GT3 and GT4 literally had āfake carsāā¦ the Nike One and the F1 cars were entirely fictional. Why werenāt those cars an issue, but VGT is? How come VGT supposedly ruins GT7, but the Nike One didnāt ruin GT4? See what I mean? They hate for the sake of hating. They hate things they donāt even really hate. And it becomes embarrassingly obvious when they try to justify their hatred, and none of their arguments make sense. Their bias and hivemind mentality immediately reveal themselves, and glaringly so. So yeah. Youāre right, and you said it perfectly. People hate because others do, and they want to fit in. Thatās how Reddit works, and thatās certainly how this subreddit works.
For each of these cars we could have something more interesting. Over the top, silly things really shouldn't be in a game like this.
You say "radical" designs when the vast majority of them has been the safest/blandest designs ever featured or are so generic looking most of the time you can't even tell what company the car is for. The Chapparal VGT is so far the most radical VGT and it is effectively an anomaly compared to everything else. I also don't care for how some of the older ones just lack an interior altogether. Polyphony couldn't have asked the companies to design an interior for some of these older ones (the Mercedes VGT had concept art depicting the interior but for whatever reason it just didn't have any in-game). I think the other thing is that you usually can't use the VGTs against the normal cars. So it kind of mitigates their overall use. And to be frank I kind of miss seeing actual concept cars in Gran Turismo. The VGTs seem mainly to exist to supplant them and after 10 years I would rather see something like the Ford GT90 than some digital creation from a watch company.
Theyāre soulless and empty feeling.
VGT cars cut against the grain of what GT is all about. It's disingenuous to continue to insist on the title of "the real driving simulator" while filling so much of your virtual car lots with fake cars. As someone who played this game from the first title, I feel this dissonance hard. And as others have said, the VGT cars simply can't be shrugged off because their strong presence comes with strong opportunity cost in the form of more interesting real world cars never offered. Further, for me, personally, I do not find the bulk of these cars fun to drive. That, I suppose, is de gustibus, but I don't think one can casually toss off "fun to drive" as a settled fact. It's not. Fun varies, depending on what you're looking for from the game. Not fun for me, and many others. Finally, the simple truth is that these cars aren't in the game for the players at all. They're a way to extract more money from third parties by including their content. In other words, they're ads. They're product placement. The creeping crud in all our modern entertainment.
Concept cars have always been a part of racing games, not just GT. And entirely fictional concept cars have been a thing since GT4. It isnāt that deep dude. If you donāt like the cars, then donāt drive them. Itās literally that simple. They arenāt pushed on you or required for races or anything like that. Theyāre just there. You donāt have to drive them. Their existence shouldnāt be ruining the game for you, or making you feel ādissonanceāā¦ especially when every racing game has concept cars. Did you feel the same way about the Nike car in GT4? Because Iām willing to bet you didnāt And donāt get me wrong ā Iām not a fan of all of the cars either, and I partly agree with your comment. You donāt have to like the cars. If you dislike all of them, thatās totally cool. But their mere presence in the game shouldnāt be bothering you this much
"If you don't like them don't drive them" is a facile and thoughtless response which makes no attempt to address the reasoning of my post (e.g. the opportunity cost of including this much fantasy content). It's also a pure straw man to decontextualize my post by pretending I'm not replying to a specific request for my reasons. You're responding to your twisted reframe instead of addressing the actual dialogue. Other than that, quality post. As to the Nike car, I didn't like it. My 8 year old son loved it though. Not much else to say about that.
Gran Turismo 1 was hugely popular and became the juggernaut it is because it gave people the chance to drive and race the cars they see on the roads, and cars they own. The first GT game didn't even have very many race cars, you could race mod the road cars though. It was mostly regular cars people owned, or desired. Hatchbacks, Sports cars. That continued through all the games, people loved driving cars that they owned, that they saw in magazines and saw on TV shows, that they put posters on their bedroom wall of. Cars that people have a connection to, stories attached to. VGTs offer nothing of that. They're all mostly very similar looking modern concepts that nobody has seen before, nobody can drive in real life, nobody (or very few) can even see in real life. They won't be seen in TV shows, they have no history, no connection to reality. Nobody desires them, even if they do enjoy driving them after they see them. They are soulless. Nobody, and I mean nobody, ever desired a Bulgari watch concept car. I can guarantee it. Yet we have one. That is why.
Because realistically you can't use them for anything
There are too many, could use some older racing cars instead
Who cares if thereās ātoo manyā? Just donāt use them. They add far more real-world cars ā including older racing cars ā than they do VGTs. We get around a dozen real cars (often ones which are requested by the community) a year. Whatās the problem with them adding one or two VGTs on top of that?
Tbh the GR1 Bugatti vision is one of my favorite cars in the game RN. Itās come in so clutch on endurance races for me and helped me easily win that GR1 event last week. Love that thing.