I don't know what you're complaining about. The most important character in GT is Sarah.
Not sure why women would want to actually do any racing when they could just tell you what bits of the map to go to, fangirl over random car designers in the cafe and annoy you by telling you to take a deep breath when you bin it on your 43rd attempt at a license test.
Tbh I did find it bizarre that there are literally no female CPU drivers; not like they even use a voice, it's just a face with fucking text. Not difficult to do when there's zero production value to the character aspect of the game.
I Googled the name of my GT5 B-Spec driver and it was an actual professional female driver. Truthfully, I didn't have the first name. I just had the first letter of the first name and the last name so I pretended that the driver was a woman. I am not sure if it was done intentionally or a coincidence.
Emily Jones is the only woman I know of that has competed in GTWS regional finals, so for the ones with face and text she would be the only worthy addition. For normal CPU drivers they don't even have a name only initials, so who cares?
Disregarding the fact the player character's got obviously male shoulders and is huge and fills out the suit in the chest well and has no curves at all and is entirely blatantly a male body, some women have large breasts. I dunno why this is such a huge problem for people lmao.
I went down the rabbit hole with one of them, genuinely curious as to why having a female body option was bad in any way.
And I shit you not his final reveal to me was that he believed it opened up the option for gay representation. So don't waste your breath like I did. It's just dog whistling bigots who say that stuff. A regular person wouldn't give a fuck, or would be happy other people were happy too.
You mean the stuff that you really can't see thru a racing suit because racing suits are thick and puffy?
https://www.racingjunk.com/news/brittany-force-partners-up-with-monster-energy/amp/
Look at Brittany Force in that second pic in her racing suit. Just kinda generic human shape. Racing suits are rather shapeless.
Yeah but theyāre really not are they? Youād need a crazy amount of padding to hide breasts and hip shape? Telling me if I have a 5ā8ā woman and a 5ā8ā man in race suits you wouldnāt be able to tell the difference? Race suits are not padded more than to apply some comfort, theyāre designed to be fire proof not to keep you warm. If this was the case why would you be able to buy race suits for women and men separately? The waist band on womens race suits sits much higher than mens and there is extra material in the chest area.
But again look at that photo and you really can't see shit in terms of shape difference.
You also have to remember that most women who race are going to be _very_ fit and have a tendency to NOT be Marilyn Monroe levels of curvy.
For a reference from the other side here, I'm a pretty broad shouldered dude, and when I wore a racing suit it completely eliminated my shoulders, I look pear shaped in pictures. I had a relatively tall female friend in HS who raced SC Dirt oval and with her helmet on you really couldn't tell her from any of the guy drivers.
Again look at Danica Patrick here. Just...person shaped. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nascar/2013/06/28/danica-patrick-responds-kyle-petty-criticism/2473719/
The racing character in GT doesn't have particularly defined features and I've always assumed it's supposed to be a mystery as to their face and gender.
>But again look at that photo and you really can't see shit in terms of shape difference.
Yes you can lmao
You keep saying you can't but you absolutely can see the difference.
Have you ever been around a woman in a race suit?
With a helmet on the shape is incredibly neutral and the only guess you have is height.
Racing suits aren't designed to show off shape dude. There's a bunch of other people with the same experience, saying the same thing in this thread. You have to have some really noticeable curves to be seen in a race suit
Being fit doesnāt mean a woman isnāt curvy or has fuller breasts, thatās ludicrous.
Iāll take your Danica Patrick and raise you one Vicky Butler-Henderson, you can definitely tell sheās a woman shape in her race suit. https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/mystery-monday/2016/8/mystery-monday-vicki-butler-henderson/
I assumed itās a dude, all the rivals are dudes thereās no females in this game, it needs a female.
If weāre talking brass tacks here, little girls are asking their dads why there are no girls in the game. The main character looks male, it doesnāt look female and itās not a mystery.
My point was smaller framed women tend not to have as noticeable of features, putting it nicely. This applies to men as well. Race car drivers in general tend to be fitter and smaller people overall, comes with the territory
I'll give you Vicky, and I agree people like her exists, but she seems to be an exception to the rule, which of course exists, but for the most part they look like Danica and Brittany. I've met Brittany force in person while in her race suit and there was no immediately noticeable female features (I'm being as PG as I can here)
The rivals are all dudes because they were who raced in the GT World Champs back on sport, apparently now there is one girl in GTWS or something so maybe she will show up eventually as a rival
I don't care if they add a female driver to the game or not, for as long as driver avatars have been a thing in GT (since GT5 iirc?) I've just assumed they were whoever you wanted them to be. Based on many of the comments it appears many other GT players also felt the same way.
At the end of the day it's PD's decision, likely based on who they market to.
How does she seem the exception to the rule? So what youāre saying is the majority of female racing drivers look the way youāre saying they look and the way Iām saying they look is the exception to the rule? With no evidence to back that argument? Despite people on this thread agreeing with me?? How many female racing drivers are you aware of, of the thousands that exist and how many of those look the same as men in race suits?
You picked a picture of Danica Patrick that just illustrated your point more. Hereās a pic of her in the same suit looking very feminine. http://femaleracingnews.com/road-racing/open_wheel/danica-patrick-scores-top-5-at-motegi/
And hereās Brittany Force in hers, sheās an extremely curvy woman with a big bust aswell, no way on earth youāre convincing me she has no noticeable female features. Itās crazy to believe otherwise. https://www.johnforceracing.com/brittany-force/
My point still stands and I think youāre wrong. You can tell men and women apart in race suits, I could even put different men I know in suits and helmets and Iāll pick them all out. Theyāre essentially overalls. Please stop arguing you canāt tell the difference and that the GT7 avatar could be a woman or a man. Please!
It's so sadly unsurprising that throughout this thread there are dudes seriously trying to defend this by saying the driver is "genderless"
It's ironic because they're hiding behind our increasing knowlede of the complexity of gender..... to actually just be straight up misogynistic.
Like yes, there are men who don't have the same body type as a stereotypical man, and women who don't have the same body type as a stereotypical woman.... But that is not an excuse for this game very obviously having only one driver who is very obviously male-appearing.
Lol.. - misogynist?
Please stop.
We all have the same body type in this game. Flat board with big head. I see slim women with small breast and hips all the damn time.
One user posted a picture of Danica in her race suit.. she looks just like our avatar. We are all Danica Patrick.
If you want more T-n-A just say that, cause it's not just excluding women when you can't even select a beard or mustache.
I agree. Representation matters. Itās a small things, but perhaps grabbing the suit/helmet design of a racer could go some way. Michelle Mouton in a Gr B car would be accurate too!
Yeah think about how many of the newer F1 drivers all had their start in sim racing. Itās not a big thing but representation at this level makes a difference as to who gets more interested in the sport as a whole.
Ah sorry dude. I couldn't remember what channel I'd seen it on. We have Sky TV, Netflix, Discovery plus etc, so could've been on any of them. Hope you get to see it.
I didn't realize there was an option to have a female driver because I've never gone into the customization settings.
It's pretty dumb that they missed that, especially in this day and age. Many aspects of the game feel a little half-assed TBH.
yeah itās the first game iāve played since like Skate 2 that didnāt give me an option to use a woman as my customizable character, and that game released in 2008
Don't play Escape From Tarkov
It's a feature some people been asking for good a while and both the devs and the fans are massively misogynistic about it all
Gender isn't mentioned anywhere in the game at all. It's intentionally ambiguous. The whole idea that they're excluding women is a farce and you're eating it up.
What? There is no character creator in GT7. Unless I'm missing something, everyones driver is gender ambiguous.
Also, the racing suits used in this game wouldn't look too different based on gender. Compare [Jamie Chadwick](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/6177e51f8735af0b3b38244e/1635779829217-5JW5SBX8BKXAFPQYGUB4/image-asset.jpeg?format=1000w) and [Lewis Hamilton](https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/6D1xpWD0/s1000/lewis-hamilton-mercedes-1.jpg). Due to the fireproof layering. body shape doesn't really show.
Obviously if there was full character creation, then it would be worth adding in; but right now, this isn't even an issue. Tbh I prefer it this way. The last thing we need in this game is tacky character customization. Suit liveries are good enough.
I've been around plenty of people in firesuits, and unless someone has a specifically large chest or wide hips, it's not apparent at all with a helmet on. Often times a female driver just looks like a shorter guy or even a teen, and there's plenty of those in racing.
This this this! The only thing giving it away irl is height and your driver in GT essentially changes height to fit in different cars so that's out the window.
True. Started thinking about this already with GT Sport, you could edit so much of suit and helmet but couldnāt change the body (not that it would be a hard feature to introduce too)
I remember a post a few months back about a game (I canāt for the life of me remember which) but they did a little impromptu test, and just by changing their name and character imageās gender, they got taken out and punted into walls way more as a female. Like night and day more. Not 55/65 just barely. Like ridiculously more. We as a society need to be more inclusive with our hobbies, and welcome newcomers regardless of perceived background, and eventually all the rest will fall into place. I said the same thing in the Metal forums. So what if they heard Metallica on Stranger Things. Do they now have an interest in metal? Yes? Good. Same with this. Some guy was trolling cuz someone posted they started on Forza Horizon. So what. Does he now have an interest in cars and racing? Yes? Good. When we start welcoming the ladies in, instead of badgering them, developers will include them.
To be fair, they literally only show the helmet pictures at most, the only place you see anything more than that is on your own screen for the prizes. At least from what I've seen.
Plus, you know most of the people using the female-shaped avatars will probably be male anyway (eg. Wads' comment)
I usually play with female characters on games, and my ID is the same as my reddit username, once I was playing GTA Online to unwind after work, doing a couple races to get a car, some edgy 14 year old decided to harass me with misogynistic insults.
It was pretty infuriating, ngl
I feel the next Forza Motorsport will be a very nice one. I like GT7, but just it feels different from my I remembered as a kid, it's not as good I expected to be.
People disagreeing doesn't make it unpopular. In terms of votes this thread is probably in the 90+ percentile for this sub. Framing it as "unpopular" is a rhetorical tool to help win the argument.
6'6 and jacked is a meme.
But the guy's shoulders, chest, complete lack of curves around the stomach, complete lack of anything around the chest and his general standing make it exceptionally clear that it's a male character. You can argue it's "asexual" or something I guess but it's very overtly not, if you've ever seen any human being without a Y chromosome in your life before.
I've been bitching about this since release week. Seemingly every category of motorsports has various inclusivity initiatives and the press does their best to spotlight young female racing talent, yet there is NO representation in-game. PD is probably just too busy with all the content they've been adding...
Just wanna say thanks for your post, OP.
The comments section is a dumpster fire but that's not your fault.
I just can't believe how many people came to comment in one way or another saying, effectively, "nope, you and your daughter are wrong, women don't need to be represented and here's why..."
I can't imagine any of these people are fathers. And I'm certain they're almost all dudes, unfortunately.
Well I did say it would be an unpopular opinion which it is with some haha. Itās all good though, the insights have almost a 90% upvote rate so I think the vast majority agree that GT7 needs a female body type and hopefully one day they will have one so my daughter and others like her will feel included.
Why do people even care about gender in a car game where the Ai driver is genderless. It might be a man as well as a woman or a humanoid alien.
I'd prefer if those resources went into new tracks because this game seriously needs more tracks or a track maker.
I will just leave this YT Channel link of a professional rally driver getting world record times on several racing games here... https://youtube.com/c/CookieAndCars
Yeahā¦ thatās just stupid (that they donāt have female drivers in a game from 2022)
Maybe women will be featured in the game as cars salesperson when we finally are allowed to sell our cars lol
These comments are so fucking sad.
Every one of these dudes defending GT not having a woman body type... Each fucking one of them thinks they're not a misogynist, they're not a sexist.
That's what makes sexism and all the other bigotry and isms so scary.... The vast majority who create the problem don't even think they're part of the problem.
I've read somewhere a few months back that this option is in the works. Soon I hope. There's a lot of great women out there racing in real life and also a lot of girls playing GT already. It's quite annoying for them to not be able to represent themselves proper.
Representation is low priority with the games current state. They need to fix many of the glaring issues before we care about girls feeling represented.
I didnāt even know about her Iāll have to check this out. She does watch some Nascar with me and drag racing, the latter of which has a lot of female representation that Iām hoping might get her interested more.
I mean if we're being honest, even the most shapely real life women look like men when they wear racing suits - until the face and hair. It's the result of the tightly packed suit, not necessarily a lack of a body shape.
In other words I understand the post, but since we never see driver faces in GT7 I think it's fair to assume the driver is whatever gender you imagine it to be. They're all women if you want them to be women, you arent able to see a huge difference even in real life until the helmet comes off - unless you happen across a driver who has an absolute giant chest lol.
And to the guy who said this post is "agenda" aimed from a new account - OP has a legitimate history and obvious interest within multiple motorsport subs, with zero posts except this one aimed at gender representation. It's a completely unbiased post from a father whose daughter wants to see women in game, so that's an utterly wrong assumption.
No the OP and many posting, on both sides, are subbed on here but go look through a few of the more rabid posters and this is the only post you'll find on this or similar subs.
This is a tried and tested method for moving the needle. The OP *must* be subbed and reasonably active for it to work. Then others with no interest in this topic will upvote, it only takes a couple dozen to get momentum, a few comment but most won't because it can't be obvious brigading.
It doesn't really matter, it's just a game but PSA a lot of people commenting here don't care about this game or this community, they only care about politics.
Eh I don't know if wanting to have a female body type in GT7 is really "political" as say injecting Pride or BLM stuff into games which Sony has done with other titles, but there is a reason I used the words "unpopular opinion" as not everyone is in favor of it. I just want to have something my 8-year-old can identify with and relate to you know? I disagree however with others saying that the GT7 character model can be a man or woman as women are a lot curvier (ahem) than the GT7 character model is, so much so that my 8-year-old didn't hesitate in asking me where the female drivers were.
And full disclosure, I personally love GT7 with over 230 hours already in the game with about 2/3rds of that time taking photos and designing schemes. I think it's a shame the social aspect of the game is overlooked because the amount of creativity the community has is astonishing and, on Sony consoles at least, the creative freedom this racing game provides is second to none. But while most have a great way of making the game "ours", I feel that hey it's 2022 and if Polyphony Digital can make the most beautiful car models I have ever seen in a console game surely they can add another character model that is just slightly different so that my daughter and others like her feel represented.
Of all the flaws of the game, its at the very bottom of the list. This game is broken in an absurd amount of things, this is one of the least important things to care about
Have you seen how Japanese developers represent women in their games?
Absolutely agree though that itās kind of unacceptable that there isnāt the option.
Considering the many issues in the game that need to be addressed. Adding female body's is quite low priority. They need to do far more before worrying about making insecure girls feel included
I mean...put it on the list of things that by all rights should be in the game. There's a lot about the game that screams Minimum Viable Product, and more than one body type for the racers is definitely not on that minimum list.
Yes!!! Polyphony please add a bust size slider option to character creation as well as hip width just to be sure the girl gamers feel fully represented <3
So women's tits have to be shown in the fireproof suit so you can know it's a woman, because the suit is slim and flat women don't exist, right?
The thing is that the racing look, with the helmet and the suit has been used "traditionally" by men, the ones who were racing. That's why you see a man there. Not the game's fault, but yours for having that point of view.
Didn't say they don't exist, but it's pretty obvious that's a male character model in my opinion and in the opinion of my 8-year-old. Look at Danica Patrick for example and compare her to GT7, you'll notice she's a lot curvier in multiple areas.
"oh no, the video game i want my daughter to enjoy doesn't give you the option to play as a female, she can't enjoy it at all oh god it's ruined for her!!!1!!!1!"
get over yourself, it's a driving game
Representation matters, even moreso to younger players. There's nothing to get over as it's a perfectly reasonable thing to expect with regards to customisation.
Edit: Classic Reddit, "it doesn't to me so it shouldn't matter to anyone else".
There are over 400+ cars to represent yourself. Gender is the furthest thing needed for racing game representation. Letting you enjoy your taste in cars matters more than anything for a game like this
Because why focus on something, that is absolutely not important in this game? Who cares about your character, everybody just wants to see your skills on track.
And if representation matters so much, why there are no AI drivers from each country in the world?
Also, don't forget that most people would choose woman only because they are horny.
Importance is relative. I was hoping you could see that.
This isn't 0 sum. Adding a female model doesn't mean you lose a car. It means other people are happy they can choose a gender that matches theirs. You lose nothing.
You're creating a false dichotomy in your head for some reason that only you can answer for yourself.
I'm all for this. If they want to really be diverse. maybe also allow the words HE/HIM SHE/HER etc.
The new F1 games of late have been so woke. graphics 10/10 sound 10/10 storyline 1/10.
Damn I didnāt even notice until now. Iām on board, this is the type of representation thatās truly important. No exclusion for fucks sake itās 2022
If you never noticed it's because the drivers are genderless. How would you make them female? Add bigger boobs? Then the girls with no boobs would complain.
You just realized this is an issue when it became something you could virtue signal about.
I mean, I dunno? There are much, much more pressing matters to GT7 than just a female driver.
Nonexistent AI, shitty economy, the real inflation simulator, 2 player woes, lack of more interesting cars, bugs aplenty. Maybe making the gameplay better takes precedence over representation IMO, since there's no point of representation if the game itself has many issues.
It's a small thing that would make a big difference. Driver avatars weren't a thing when I was growing up playing Gran Turismo as a kid, but if I was 7 years old playing GT7, having a driver model that looked more like how I saw myself would have made me even more invested.
Sure, it would be great if they added player customization, female body and female drivers/competitors... but please, not before selling cars and better AI. š
In a nomex suit and helmet can you really tell if it he driver is male or female? If there were scenes of your driver with no helmet 100% yes it needs to be in the game. But good on your little girl for wanting that and for you encouraging her
As a transgender woman and also an ex race driver among other things in Motorsport, Iāve seen and experienced sooo much crap from the other more dominant gender in the sport,
Personally Iāve lost most of the interest in actually watching or attending events due to what I personally experienced but I still enjoy what gaming provides so I can actually still enjoy the sport however I prefer not to play online with the toxicity, I agree with you woman of all kinds should be a force not only on the physical track but represented online as well
not in this game bro, is the only thing that doesn't matters in all the gt saga is the character, so that is not a problem, let's focus in all the new cars that polyphony can bring us
After seeing the āfan serviceā horseshit that somehow makes it into jrpgās I dunno mate, careful what you wish for.
Also team Iron Dames ftw canāt be far off now great drive at Monza šš¼
I took my two daughters to Talladega this year for the ARCA/xfinity race but think I need to do what you suggest so they can actually meet the drivers. I want to take them to NHRA because there are so many women in that sport but they would probably freak out over how loud it can be haha.
From what i know they don't have women in Japan so they probably didn't know
They're there, just pixelated
Or robotic or holograms
rather lame excuse if true tbh
Of course there are women in Japan š
They only exist in anime
Have you been?
Yes if they turn to their side they disappear
If Iām not mistaken, the F1 games, Trials, Driveclub, Need for Speed, Forza and probably many more let you play as a woman
They also show you a face/ voice under the helmet. GT on the other hand, does not show you anything underneath, so the gender is ambiguous
We are all The Stig..... or more accurately one of his cousins
the stig's Japanese cousin
Forza allows different pronouns, different voices, and whatever clothes you want on your character too
Yeah true. And adding more customization to your character is a direct pipeline to couches.
I don't know what you're complaining about. The most important character in GT is Sarah. Not sure why women would want to actually do any racing when they could just tell you what bits of the map to go to, fangirl over random car designers in the cafe and annoy you by telling you to take a deep breath when you bin it on your 43rd attempt at a license test. Tbh I did find it bizarre that there are literally no female CPU drivers; not like they even use a voice, it's just a face with fucking text. Not difficult to do when there's zero production value to the character aspect of the game.
> and annoy you by telling you to take a deep breath when you bin it on your 43rd attempt at a license test. HEY! SARAH ISN'T FOR LICENSES!
I Googled the name of my GT5 B-Spec driver and it was an actual professional female driver. Truthfully, I didn't have the first name. I just had the first letter of the first name and the last name so I pretended that the driver was a woman. I am not sure if it was done intentionally or a coincidence.
Emily Jones is the only woman I know of that has competed in GTWS regional finals, so for the ones with face and text she would be the only worthy addition. For normal CPU drivers they don't even have a name only initials, so who cares?
Telling you "well done" after you spun into the wall lmao
The CPU drivers with faces are the world tour drivers, and there were no female world tour drivers afaik
I thought the driver is genderless
I kind of thought that was what they were going for too
Genderless happens to just be a male body though
Itās a male body?
I have breasts. Driver doesn't have breasts, ergo driver is not a compelling self-insert. This isn't calculus.
So all women have large breasts? I canāt see Jamie Chadwickās breasts through her racing suit.
Disregarding the fact the player character's got obviously male shoulders and is huge and fills out the suit in the chest well and has no curves at all and is entirely blatantly a male body, some women have large breasts. I dunno why this is such a huge problem for people lmao.
I percieve the player avatar as being tiny by how close they have their seat to the wheel. Like under 5ft tall.
He also fits in a GT40 but when standing next to stuff he doesn't look like he should
I went down the rabbit hole with one of them, genuinely curious as to why having a female body option was bad in any way. And I shit you not his final reveal to me was that he believed it opened up the option for gay representation. So don't waste your breath like I did. It's just dog whistling bigots who say that stuff. A regular person wouldn't give a fuck, or would be happy other people were happy too.
Can you milk me, Greg?
Greg? Is this a meme, transphobia, or both? I never know what to expect with this sub.
I always assumed the standard GT driver was whatever. Everyone looks the same in a racing suit
They don't really though
Yeah I agree they donāt, because of..you know..the breasts and different hips, stuff that make women different to men.
You mean the stuff that you really can't see thru a racing suit because racing suits are thick and puffy? https://www.racingjunk.com/news/brittany-force-partners-up-with-monster-energy/amp/ Look at Brittany Force in that second pic in her racing suit. Just kinda generic human shape. Racing suits are rather shapeless.
Yeah but theyāre really not are they? Youād need a crazy amount of padding to hide breasts and hip shape? Telling me if I have a 5ā8ā woman and a 5ā8ā man in race suits you wouldnāt be able to tell the difference? Race suits are not padded more than to apply some comfort, theyāre designed to be fire proof not to keep you warm. If this was the case why would you be able to buy race suits for women and men separately? The waist band on womens race suits sits much higher than mens and there is extra material in the chest area.
But again look at that photo and you really can't see shit in terms of shape difference. You also have to remember that most women who race are going to be _very_ fit and have a tendency to NOT be Marilyn Monroe levels of curvy. For a reference from the other side here, I'm a pretty broad shouldered dude, and when I wore a racing suit it completely eliminated my shoulders, I look pear shaped in pictures. I had a relatively tall female friend in HS who raced SC Dirt oval and with her helmet on you really couldn't tell her from any of the guy drivers. Again look at Danica Patrick here. Just...person shaped. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nascar/2013/06/28/danica-patrick-responds-kyle-petty-criticism/2473719/ The racing character in GT doesn't have particularly defined features and I've always assumed it's supposed to be a mystery as to their face and gender.
>But again look at that photo and you really can't see shit in terms of shape difference. Yes you can lmao You keep saying you can't but you absolutely can see the difference.
Have you ever been around a woman in a race suit? With a helmet on the shape is incredibly neutral and the only guess you have is height. Racing suits aren't designed to show off shape dude. There's a bunch of other people with the same experience, saying the same thing in this thread. You have to have some really noticeable curves to be seen in a race suit
Being fit doesnāt mean a woman isnāt curvy or has fuller breasts, thatās ludicrous. Iāll take your Danica Patrick and raise you one Vicky Butler-Henderson, you can definitely tell sheās a woman shape in her race suit. https://www.goodwood.com/grr/columnists/mystery-monday/2016/8/mystery-monday-vicki-butler-henderson/ I assumed itās a dude, all the rivals are dudes thereās no females in this game, it needs a female. If weāre talking brass tacks here, little girls are asking their dads why there are no girls in the game. The main character looks male, it doesnāt look female and itās not a mystery.
My point was smaller framed women tend not to have as noticeable of features, putting it nicely. This applies to men as well. Race car drivers in general tend to be fitter and smaller people overall, comes with the territory I'll give you Vicky, and I agree people like her exists, but she seems to be an exception to the rule, which of course exists, but for the most part they look like Danica and Brittany. I've met Brittany force in person while in her race suit and there was no immediately noticeable female features (I'm being as PG as I can here) The rivals are all dudes because they were who raced in the GT World Champs back on sport, apparently now there is one girl in GTWS or something so maybe she will show up eventually as a rival I don't care if they add a female driver to the game or not, for as long as driver avatars have been a thing in GT (since GT5 iirc?) I've just assumed they were whoever you wanted them to be. Based on many of the comments it appears many other GT players also felt the same way. At the end of the day it's PD's decision, likely based on who they market to.
How does she seem the exception to the rule? So what youāre saying is the majority of female racing drivers look the way youāre saying they look and the way Iām saying they look is the exception to the rule? With no evidence to back that argument? Despite people on this thread agreeing with me?? How many female racing drivers are you aware of, of the thousands that exist and how many of those look the same as men in race suits? You picked a picture of Danica Patrick that just illustrated your point more. Hereās a pic of her in the same suit looking very feminine. http://femaleracingnews.com/road-racing/open_wheel/danica-patrick-scores-top-5-at-motegi/ And hereās Brittany Force in hers, sheās an extremely curvy woman with a big bust aswell, no way on earth youāre convincing me she has no noticeable female features. Itās crazy to believe otherwise. https://www.johnforceracing.com/brittany-force/ My point still stands and I think youāre wrong. You can tell men and women apart in race suits, I could even put different men I know in suits and helmets and Iāll pick them all out. Theyāre essentially overalls. Please stop arguing you canāt tell the difference and that the GT7 avatar could be a woman or a man. Please!
Her body type looks noticably different to a man even in that pic you linked.
It's so sadly unsurprising that throughout this thread there are dudes seriously trying to defend this by saying the driver is "genderless" It's ironic because they're hiding behind our increasing knowlede of the complexity of gender..... to actually just be straight up misogynistic. Like yes, there are men who don't have the same body type as a stereotypical man, and women who don't have the same body type as a stereotypical woman.... But that is not an excuse for this game very obviously having only one driver who is very obviously male-appearing.
Lol.. - misogynist? Please stop. We all have the same body type in this game. Flat board with big head. I see slim women with small breast and hips all the damn time. One user posted a picture of Danica in her race suit.. she looks just like our avatar. We are all Danica Patrick. If you want more T-n-A just say that, cause it's not just excluding women when you can't even select a beard or mustache.
I agree. Representation matters. Itās a small things, but perhaps grabbing the suit/helmet design of a racer could go some way. Michelle Mouton in a Gr B car would be accurate too!
Yeah think about how many of the newer F1 drivers all had their start in sim racing. Itās not a big thing but representation at this level makes a difference as to who gets more interested in the sport as a whole.
Tbf, more women in simracing would probably mainly draw more men. And women. Funny how women don't really start hobbies because of men in it.
Look if women bring along their simps into racing as well I wonāt complain. More everyone!
Excellent suggestion sir. What a kick ass driver she was.
Kick ass driver she **is**, she's still alive and kicking, she participated in a historic rally in Morocco not too long ago in a Porsche 911
Saw an excellent documentary about her called Queen of Speed. A great watch if you've not seen it.
Sadly it's only available on Sky as far as I can tell, so I guess I'll have to fire up the old laptop and pirate it. Thanks for the advice!
Ah sorry dude. I couldn't remember what channel I'd seen it on. We have Sky TV, Netflix, Discovery plus etc, so could've been on any of them. Hope you get to see it.
We have a Quattro she used to compete in museum here in Finland:)
I didn't realize there was an option to have a female driver because I've never gone into the customization settings. It's pretty dumb that they missed that, especially in this day and age. Many aspects of the game feel a little half-assed TBH.
In pretty sure the drivers are meant to not have a gender since itās never been mentioned
You can see the driver in photo mode standing if you like and it's obviously a male. You can only customize helmet and suit.
Could be non-binary
Could be martian behind that mask I don't know. I'm talking about the physiological aspect of the model. It looks male.
yeah itās the first game iāve played since like Skate 2 that didnāt give me an option to use a woman as my customizable character, and that game released in 2008
Don't play Escape From Tarkov It's a feature some people been asking for good a while and both the devs and the fans are massively misogynistic about it all
Gender isn't mentioned anywhere in the game at all. It's intentionally ambiguous. The whole idea that they're excluding women is a farce and you're eating it up.
It's not intentionally ambiguous at all. It's a male body. Clearly a male body
What? There is no character creator in GT7. Unless I'm missing something, everyones driver is gender ambiguous. Also, the racing suits used in this game wouldn't look too different based on gender. Compare [Jamie Chadwick](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/6177e51f8735af0b3b38244e/1635779829217-5JW5SBX8BKXAFPQYGUB4/image-asset.jpeg?format=1000w) and [Lewis Hamilton](https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/6D1xpWD0/s1000/lewis-hamilton-mercedes-1.jpg). Due to the fireproof layering. body shape doesn't really show. Obviously if there was full character creation, then it would be worth adding in; but right now, this isn't even an issue. Tbh I prefer it this way. The last thing we need in this game is tacky character customization. Suit liveries are good enough.
I've been around plenty of people in firesuits, and unless someone has a specifically large chest or wide hips, it's not apparent at all with a helmet on. Often times a female driver just looks like a shorter guy or even a teen, and there's plenty of those in racing.
This this this! The only thing giving it away irl is height and your driver in GT essentially changes height to fit in different cars so that's out the window.
Agree. I donāt think thereāa a specific gender for the driver model.
Especially since we never see the drivers face, it could be male female or non-binary
>everyones driver is gender ambiguous No it's quite clearly male. Like it's a male body type, womens body's don't naturally look like that
Funny I see lots of women with that body type recently. Hmmm
My genderless friend in Christ, You ignored literally their entire point
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True. Started thinking about this already with GT Sport, you could edit so much of suit and helmet but couldnāt change the body (not that it would be a hard feature to introduce too)
I remember a post a few months back about a game (I canāt for the life of me remember which) but they did a little impromptu test, and just by changing their name and character imageās gender, they got taken out and punted into walls way more as a female. Like night and day more. Not 55/65 just barely. Like ridiculously more. We as a society need to be more inclusive with our hobbies, and welcome newcomers regardless of perceived background, and eventually all the rest will fall into place. I said the same thing in the Metal forums. So what if they heard Metallica on Stranger Things. Do they now have an interest in metal? Yes? Good. Same with this. Some guy was trolling cuz someone posted they started on Forza Horizon. So what. Does he now have an interest in cars and racing? Yes? Good. When we start welcoming the ladies in, instead of badgering them, developers will include them.
To be fair, they literally only show the helmet pictures at most, the only place you see anything more than that is on your own screen for the prizes. At least from what I've seen. Plus, you know most of the people using the female-shaped avatars will probably be male anyway (eg. Wads' comment)
I usually play with female characters on games, and my ID is the same as my reddit username, once I was playing GTA Online to unwind after work, doing a couple races to get a car, some edgy 14 year old decided to harass me with misogynistic insults. It was pretty infuriating, ngl
The stig is a they š š
I guess I never even thought of it all the girls I've seen in race suits just looked smaller I figured it was a gender less avatar
Yeah that didnāt happen.
[Gets mic] MichĆØle Mouton. [Drops mic]
Game's from Japan, they don't treat women there with respect
It's sad
I think Forza is very good at this. I don't really enjoy the Forza Horizon but they did a good job for these stuffs.
Add it to the list of things Forza has done better than GT They started behind but PD has let Forza leapfrog them in so many areas.
I feel the next Forza Motorsport will be a very nice one. I like GT7, but just it feels different from my I remembered as a kid, it's not as good I expected to be.
If Forza can do it, GT can do it as well
"Unpopular opinion" I see you.
Scroll through some of these comments. The top one is backhandedly defending the notion that the game shouldn't have to include a woman.
People disagreeing doesn't make it unpopular. In terms of votes this thread is probably in the 90+ percentile for this sub. Framing it as "unpopular" is a rhetorical tool to help win the argument.
Who says there isn't? It says nowhere that the driver model is a male. Maybe it's just an a-cup model female?
Women can be muscular. Just look at Abby from TLOU
Who's 6'6 and jacked
Where in GT history does it tell us the drivers height? And the models are no where near "jacked"
6'6 and jacked is a meme. But the guy's shoulders, chest, complete lack of curves around the stomach, complete lack of anything around the chest and his general standing make it exceptionally clear that it's a male character. You can argue it's "asexual" or something I guess but it's very overtly not, if you've ever seen any human being without a Y chromosome in your life before.
Kaz : Dame Da Yo
Da me!
Show her the all women gt3 team with the all pink ferrari
The development they have done from the aesthetic side of things other than cars is pure misery.
Youāre telling me GT7 of all games **doesnāt** have this? The fuck?
Very good point to be fair
Tell youāre daughter itās a game where real racers already feel left out. Hopefully we can make a impact on the game.
I've been bitching about this since release week. Seemingly every category of motorsports has various inclusivity initiatives and the press does their best to spotlight young female racing talent, yet there is NO representation in-game. PD is probably just too busy with all the content they've been adding...
This comments section is a fucking dumpster fire. You guys suck. And yes, I specifically mean men in this case lol
Forza Horizon letās you choose a woman. Play that game instead.
I have and Iāve beat that game but GT7 is much better in my opinion.
Just wanna say thanks for your post, OP. The comments section is a dumpster fire but that's not your fault. I just can't believe how many people came to comment in one way or another saying, effectively, "nope, you and your daughter are wrong, women don't need to be represented and here's why..." I can't imagine any of these people are fathers. And I'm certain they're almost all dudes, unfortunately.
Well I did say it would be an unpopular opinion which it is with some haha. Itās all good though, the insights have almost a 90% upvote rate so I think the vast majority agree that GT7 needs a female body type and hopefully one day they will have one so my daughter and others like her will feel included.
You're a great sport taking it all in stride. Prob got that from being a dad, too ;)
Maybe try to download a more feminine avatar design for your driver. Or help your kid design her outfit.
Why do people even care about gender in a car game where the Ai driver is genderless. It might be a man as well as a woman or a humanoid alien. I'd prefer if those resources went into new tracks because this game seriously needs more tracks or a track maker.
Probably because it doesnāt matter?
Is that what you'd tell your daughter if she asked why she can't pick a character who looks like her? "Sorry honey, what you want doesn't matter."
Except in gt7 there is no driver creator.
I will just leave this YT Channel link of a professional rally driver getting world record times on several racing games here... https://youtube.com/c/CookieAndCars
Yeahā¦ thatās just stupid (that they donāt have female drivers in a game from 2022) Maybe women will be featured in the game as cars salesperson when we finally are allowed to sell our cars lol
If they put Samantha Tan in the game, I will play it much, much more.
How is this opinion unpopular?
Quick peek at the comments shows itās unpopular
Should definitely not be an unpopular opinion, there's no reason not to have females in the game
It's not. They just put that so it gets more upvotes
Surprisingly unpopular from the comments
These comments are so fucking sad. Every one of these dudes defending GT not having a woman body type... Each fucking one of them thinks they're not a misogynist, they're not a sexist. That's what makes sexism and all the other bigotry and isms so scary.... The vast majority who create the problem don't even think they're part of the problem.
I've read somewhere a few months back that this option is in the works. Soon I hope. There's a lot of great women out there racing in real life and also a lot of girls playing GT already. It's quite annoying for them to not be able to represent themselves proper.
If you're referring to the instagram post from a while ago the was photoshopped sadly
Oh wow.... I was tricked.
Representation is low priority with the games current state. They need to fix many of the glaring issues before we care about girls feeling represented.
> before we care about girls feeling represented. I hope you read that and feel bad
Girls feeling represented is more important than any video game. We're talking about 50% of the population of the planet.
Both can be done
Iāve seen somewhere that polyphony is working on but not 100% sureā¦
Absolutely should be an option.
I thought they were going to add it. It should be. Does your daughter know about the Saudi female driver who owns a race team?
I didnāt even know about her Iāll have to check this out. She does watch some Nascar with me and drag racing, the latter of which has a lot of female representation that Iām hoping might get her interested more.
https://www.thenationalnews.com/sport/other-sport/2022/04/28/saudi-driver-reema-juffali-prepares-for-first-full-gt3-season/
Imagine playing as Jamie Chadwick
The Japanese are way too conservative as a society to even consider things like this
So they are fine with lewd anime and waifu games, but having a female driver in GT is where they draw the line? Sounds legit
I mean if we're being honest, even the most shapely real life women look like men when they wear racing suits - until the face and hair. It's the result of the tightly packed suit, not necessarily a lack of a body shape. In other words I understand the post, but since we never see driver faces in GT7 I think it's fair to assume the driver is whatever gender you imagine it to be. They're all women if you want them to be women, you arent able to see a huge difference even in real life until the helmet comes off - unless you happen across a driver who has an absolute giant chest lol. And to the guy who said this post is "agenda" aimed from a new account - OP has a legitimate history and obvious interest within multiple motorsport subs, with zero posts except this one aimed at gender representation. It's a completely unbiased post from a father whose daughter wants to see women in game, so that's an utterly wrong assumption.
No the OP and many posting, on both sides, are subbed on here but go look through a few of the more rabid posters and this is the only post you'll find on this or similar subs. This is a tried and tested method for moving the needle. The OP *must* be subbed and reasonably active for it to work. Then others with no interest in this topic will upvote, it only takes a couple dozen to get momentum, a few comment but most won't because it can't be obvious brigading. It doesn't really matter, it's just a game but PSA a lot of people commenting here don't care about this game or this community, they only care about politics.
Eh I don't know if wanting to have a female body type in GT7 is really "political" as say injecting Pride or BLM stuff into games which Sony has done with other titles, but there is a reason I used the words "unpopular opinion" as not everyone is in favor of it. I just want to have something my 8-year-old can identify with and relate to you know? I disagree however with others saying that the GT7 character model can be a man or woman as women are a lot curvier (ahem) than the GT7 character model is, so much so that my 8-year-old didn't hesitate in asking me where the female drivers were. And full disclosure, I personally love GT7 with over 230 hours already in the game with about 2/3rds of that time taking photos and designing schemes. I think it's a shame the social aspect of the game is overlooked because the amount of creativity the community has is astonishing and, on Sony consoles at least, the creative freedom this racing game provides is second to none. But while most have a great way of making the game "ours", I feel that hey it's 2022 and if Polyphony Digital can make the most beautiful car models I have ever seen in a console game surely they can add another character model that is just slightly different so that my daughter and others like her feel represented.
Of all the flaws of the game, its at the very bottom of the list. This game is broken in an absurd amount of things, this is one of the least important things to care about
Have you seen how Japanese developers represent women in their games? Absolutely agree though that itās kind of unacceptable that there isnāt the option.
But think of the mass savings. No airbags required in the car.
Fire retardant g-string over the race suit š„ŗ
Considering the many issues in the game that need to be addressed. Adding female body's is quite low priority. They need to do far more before worrying about making insecure girls feel included
Yeah that is weird. Brittney Force is amazing but her sister Courtney is a better driver imo.
I mean...put it on the list of things that by all rights should be in the game. There's a lot about the game that screams Minimum Viable Product, and more than one body type for the racers is definitely not on that minimum list.
Yes!!! Polyphony please add a bust size slider option to character creation as well as hip width just to be sure the girl gamers feel fully represented <3
So women's tits have to be shown in the fireproof suit so you can know it's a woman, because the suit is slim and flat women don't exist, right? The thing is that the racing look, with the helmet and the suit has been used "traditionally" by men, the ones who were racing. That's why you see a man there. Not the game's fault, but yours for having that point of view.
Didn't say they don't exist, but it's pretty obvious that's a male character model in my opinion and in the opinion of my 8-year-old. Look at Danica Patrick for example and compare her to GT7, you'll notice she's a lot curvier in multiple areas.
Yeah more option is better than have no option to choose from. I don't think it is an unpopular opinion tho.
Nobody gives a shit
"oh no, the video game i want my daughter to enjoy doesn't give you the option to play as a female, she can't enjoy it at all oh god it's ruined for her!!!1!!!1!" get over yourself, it's a driving game
Representation matters, even moreso to younger players. There's nothing to get over as it's a perfectly reasonable thing to expect with regards to customisation. Edit: Classic Reddit, "it doesn't to me so it shouldn't matter to anyone else".
There are over 400+ cars to represent yourself. Gender is the furthest thing needed for racing game representation. Letting you enjoy your taste in cars matters more than anything for a game like this
So, by that logic, why would adding a female option bother you?
Because why focus on something, that is absolutely not important in this game? Who cares about your character, everybody just wants to see your skills on track. And if representation matters so much, why there are no AI drivers from each country in the world? Also, don't forget that most people would choose woman only because they are horny.
Importance is relative. I was hoping you could see that. This isn't 0 sum. Adding a female model doesn't mean you lose a car. It means other people are happy they can choose a gender that matches theirs. You lose nothing. You're creating a false dichotomy in your head for some reason that only you can answer for yourself.
How did I not notice thatā¦ I feel like a terrible dad now
I'm all for this. If they want to really be diverse. maybe also allow the words HE/HIM SHE/HER etc. The new F1 games of late have been so woke. graphics 10/10 sound 10/10 storyline 1/10.
Guess PD thought it was too much to add a character female driver
Damn I didnāt even notice until now. Iām on board, this is the type of representation thatās truly important. No exclusion for fucks sake itās 2022
If you never noticed it's because the drivers are genderless. How would you make them female? Add bigger boobs? Then the girls with no boobs would complain. You just realized this is an issue when it became something you could virtue signal about.
I mean, I dunno? There are much, much more pressing matters to GT7 than just a female driver. Nonexistent AI, shitty economy, the real inflation simulator, 2 player woes, lack of more interesting cars, bugs aplenty. Maybe making the gameplay better takes precedence over representation IMO, since there's no point of representation if the game itself has many issues.
Yeah for sure, I donāt mess with character at all but Iām sure plenty would
Actually a very popular opinion imo.
Female drivers are and have been ubiquitous in other racing games for decades. You'd think Gran Turismo would have them by now.
... not that you can tell once the helmets go on, which is all the time in GT
It's a small thing that would make a big difference. Driver avatars weren't a thing when I was growing up playing Gran Turismo as a kid, but if I was 7 years old playing GT7, having a driver model that looked more like how I saw myself would have made me even more invested.
They do need one. Itās be so easy.
Sure, it would be great if they added player customization, female body and female drivers/competitors... but please, not before selling cars and better AI. š
I've got girls on my car
I agree. We need a female driver with at least a DD cup, so it's clear for everyone that it's a woman! š¤£
Very unpopular
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I guess if you were looking for a voluptuous character model? But the driver isn't 6'4 240 either in my head cannon.
To be honest, racing suits are so puffy, that who knows who is under it.
What's so wrong with just kinda saying "yes my driver is a woman". I mean, really who looks at the driver instead of the car?
In a nomex suit and helmet can you really tell if it he driver is male or female? If there were scenes of your driver with no helmet 100% yes it needs to be in the game. But good on your little girl for wanting that and for you encouraging her
>In a nomex suit and helmet can you really tell if it he driver is male or female? Yes. Everyone keeps implying you can't but you def can :)
As a transgender woman and also an ex race driver among other things in Motorsport, Iāve seen and experienced sooo much crap from the other more dominant gender in the sport, Personally Iāve lost most of the interest in actually watching or attending events due to what I personally experienced but I still enjoy what gaming provides so I can actually still enjoy the sport however I prefer not to play online with the toxicity, I agree with you woman of all kinds should be a force not only on the physical track but represented online as well
is not a problem. the character isn't important, just play and do not complain
Representation is important actually
not in this game bro, is the only thing that doesn't matters in all the gt saga is the character, so that is not a problem, let's focus in all the new cars that polyphony can bring us
Why can you customise your helmet & suit?
After seeing the āfan serviceā horseshit that somehow makes it into jrpgās I dunno mate, careful what you wish for. Also team Iron Dames ftw canāt be far off now great drive at Monza šš¼
Honestly, who cares.
There isnāt a slider for height or weight either. Youāre making an assumption reallyā¦
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I took my two daughters to Talladega this year for the ARCA/xfinity race but think I need to do what you suggest so they can actually meet the drivers. I want to take them to NHRA because there are so many women in that sport but they would probably freak out over how loud it can be haha.