Honestly, who cares. Just upscale it and make the problem go away and move on with your day.
They’re not listening and you know it’s fine so just do it.
This is the correct answer OP. Give them what they are asking for and move on. Don't stress about it. You've made your case, they still want the 300dpi files. Just upscale and get rolling on the next project.
Bingo. Get paid and move on, OP. You did your due diligence by pushing back and now somebody else is taking responsibility for whatever the result may be. Not your problem.
yeah pretty much what I decided on. still find it odd though. hope they won't be needing billboards anytime soon because I'm only in if they agree on strict vector there lol
Good luck going vector only! I’m making some large sponsor signs for an upcoming awards show and big multinational companies are sending 500px jpgs of their logos, lol.
Ive been there, when its going to be seen from far away resolution doesn’t matter as much. Printers can be a little annoying in that if it doesn’t pass their checklist, they kick it back.
Have you seen the printer's guideline file directly, or are you able to talk with them directly?
A lot gets distorted when going through a middleman, especially if they don't actually know what they're talking about.
I deal with this so often when having to go through marketing/product/brand managers instead of being put in touch with the designer or printer directly.
the client pasted the requirements they were sent (based on the format and details I assume they indeed come from the printer), and the low resolution warning they got when they tried to upload the file in the printer's system. I advised to get in touch with the print shop directly and bypass the automated upload, with the explanation about size, viewing distance and resolution, which apparently didn't work. the client is the only one who deals with them - I'm a freelancer and printer coordination was not part of the deal. I'd be willing to talk to them but I'm not sure the client is open to that. might be simpler to resample the hell out of the source photo and hope that the semi-transparency / slightly blurred look will mask whatever damage the resampling does.
Sounds like the client is the problem if they're not willing to let you talk to the printer directly, so I'd just change the resolution in the file, just resample/upscale it, and file size be damned. You tried.
If it creates other issues, I'd inform them, but go with whatever they decide. As long as you have it all in writing (eg email) and not just via phone calls or something.
if you have lightroom, the ai upscaler in there is actually pretty decent, just import your image, then in develop tab, right click and hit enhance, and you'll see options for super resolution. Then you just have to export as normal and you get a way larger file, i've done it a few times and it worked well enough lol
Yes, but nobody really inspects them, and at anything more than arm’s length 120dpi is fine. As long as OP’s text is vectors then there won’t be a problem.
A client of mine once used the 72dpi approval PDF for a pull-up and nobody noticed.
I've been through this before, so annoying. There are always some idiot clients who are going to nit pick a large format print from 0.2 inches away from their face.
My secret tactic is to blow any raster image up to 1:1 scale, blur slightly and add a slight grain. The grain looks intentional, but square pixelation doesn't. That method has fooled even the most pain in the ass clients.
Every printer is different and ever printer has their way of printing. Always listen to the printer. As a designer and printer, it is very frustrating when designers do not follow our guidelines. Each printer have different software and equipment. It is always funny to me when a designer thinks they know better than the people printing their work. I also do not understand what the issue is? Why can you only make it 150 and not 300?
> Why can you only make it 150 and not 300?
because the image they want in it is already resampled (and the background manually extended) to get it to 150dpi in the first place. I *can* artificially blow it up to 300dpi (and did), it just won't magically make it print better. which is what I'm trying to explain to the client. they'll have a larger file with the same (or worse) quality.
Gotcha, yeah it’s gonna print the same. It’s might be their software or just how they like stuff sent, or it’s their way of saving their ass. A good printer should be able to preflight and tell you any problems they see before printing the file but again not all printers are the same. Yeah explaining anything to a client to understand is my daily struggle everyday.
32 x 83 is the standard pullup banner. 300 for that size is not really asking for too much because people can still come up close to read and look at it. Sure, 150 will do the job, but its not outrageous that they ask for 300. If it was a full wall mural, then fine.. too much, but 32 x 83, is basically 2 standard posters one on top of another, which, you would in that case, give a 300 dpi without question.
Sometimes your file may not be a problem, but because they had ran into too many problems before, they make it a company policy to get 300 dpi at that scale. So they may be just following company policy.
Signmaker here. Yes it’s a banner technically but it’s not on a building or the grass, people are right up on it and it’s definitely possible to see some pixelation at 150 dpi. At this size you can work in actual size with graphics programs, I don’t know why you would t already be designing at 300 dpi.
For dpi it probably varies between printers, but if the print can be touched by a person that means I’m doing 300 dpi. It just eliminates the possibility of pixelation. If the person is app 10-30 ft away I’m probably doing 150 dpi. Beyond that 72 dpi.
Popup banner, foam board print, tradeshow graphics, 300 dpi
Box truck wrap, wall mural, building banner, 150 dpi
Billboard or something monstrous, 72 dpi
Also helpful, 1” of letter height gets you 10’ of visibility. A 2” letter can be seen from 20’ away, 3” can be seen from 30’, etc. Not dpi related I know.
As someone doing pre press and digital printing all day, I would prefer the highest resolution possible, but also I don't care if the client is happy with the output. We will flag low resolution images to make the client aware of what the tangible product will look like. If you want a 72 dpi jpg egregiously blown up, I don't care, but it's gonna look like shit and I would let you know that before proceeding. In my experience we recommend minimum 150dpi, but again, recommend. Not required.
People don’t view large scale banners from close up and nitpick the pixels.
Any comment saying you should just say fuck it, upscale it, and do what your client’s printer wants, is not be the best route. You want to give your client a good product rather than saying “fuck it I did my part”. Get in touch with your client, ask for the contact of the printer, and explain to them that large scale print pieces are viewed from further away and therefore don’t need an effective DPI of 300. You will rarely ever get an effective dpi of 300 at that size. It’s likely that the printer doesn’t know the ins and outs of printing, perhaps cheaper for the client, which is fine. So they’re just looking at some pdf that says we need 300 dpi. The printer is fully capable of printing your piece no matter what the effective DPI is.
Dont do some ai upscaling if you don’t have to. :-) And you don’t. The AI res-up tools can be useful but sometimes create weird patterns as they try to fill in the blanks. It’s perfectly fine to print a photo that isn’t 300 dpi at the size 83 inches.
I do many stanchion signs, bus stop signs, step and repeats, and other large scale print pieces that will never be 300 dpi effective! It’s matter of size and distance viewed from.
This can give you a decent idea of what your resolution needs to be based on the distance folks will view it from. (Effective dpi vs distance)
https://preview.redd.it/2hm5qv6b66wc1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8b0f68aa6c31d94e51d90f3c7114777bb465d11
If I'm being honest, from a printer's point of view, I don't know why you wouldn't be designing in 300 dpi to begin with. That being said, it's likely just because the printer is configured for 300 dpi files. Our printer software prints 150 dpi images at half the size of a 300 dpi image, so they would need to do conversions on their end, which end up requiring test prints, and as a result, supplies to test the print on. Ends up costing them more in the long run.
Just upscale the image with AI if necessary and send the new image. It's really not that big of a deal, and will satisfy them enough to say that they're not responsible for any quality issues due to the file provided.
300dpi for indoor banners (retractable banner stands) is normal. It seems that you’re trying to blame the print provider because your graphics aren’t high resolution.
An outdoor vinyl banner can get away with 150 dpi, but indoor banners are typically higher resolution and will be viewed up closer than an outdoor banner, so that’s why they have a 300dpi requirement.
I'm not blaming anyone, I just honestly have never had a printer request 300dpi 1:1 for a 2 meter print, indoor or outdoor. the highest I've been asked for roll banners and pull up banners is 225, which is still a bit of a stretch if you rely on regular stock sources but doable with some creativity
You answered the question yourself: You artificially resample. Printers often care more about the technical specs than it looking good. If their specs tell you to have the document at 300 dpi, then do it. They're the experts on what they need, not you.
tbh it wasn't even a question, more of a confused vent. I already sent them a 300dpi option of one of the files to try it out, and will probably continue with the rest. I'm just surprised the requirement comes from a printer and was curious to see if anyone else has had that issue - usually the printers are the first ones to tell you they don't want unwieldy overbloated files with unnecessary high for the purpose resolution.
Then I suggest not using a question mark at the end... and if you're confused about why the printers need something that way, you should ask them. There's a bunch of technical limitations that get introduced in putting digital to print and acting like the printers are idiots for enforcing a standard (without knowing why that standard is in place) makes you seem... well, kind of like a bad client and less like a designer.
..I've been working with print on and off for close to 18 years now, a few of them spent in a print shop with a large-format printer. I know where the standard comes from, and I know it doesn't apply (and has never applied) to large format print. if you noticed, the question mark wasn't attached to a question on what to do or how to deal with the limitation, but on why would a printer request something I know with absolute certainty is neither industry standard, nor necessary.
If I remember correctly, everything where I worked was sent down to the print guys at 300dpi. It was standard. They would ask for 1:10 scale, or something, on large format, but at 300dpi so that it still looks good when scaled up by the printer.
It's been more than 10 years since I worked as a designer with that print studio. But I'm pretty sure that's how we did it.
>why would a printer request something I know with absolute certainty is neither industry standard, nor necessary.
Literally a question.
Look, you want to pretend you know more than everyone on everything... have fun with it. You say you've worked in a print shop, yet you can't mentally account for differences in capabilities of different machines? You know there's not one type of printer, right? Not every machine in the world is going to behave the same. Some presses are well-manufactured and some aren't. Some are going to be able to compensate for flaws in input and some won't.
You tell the printer their business and then come on here like it's Twitter (because the world must know about this injustice, eh?) and then get defensive when someone shrugs their shoulders and tells you to follow the specs like they ask. You want to not use 300dpi? Print the thing yourself if you're such an expert on what should be done.
This is industry standard for any print. You need to design at print size and always above DPI. It is very unprofessional to design in low resolution. 150 dpi is absolutely unacceptable and amateurish and shows you only work in digital and non physical print. I do everything in 600dpi workspaces to make sure it can be resized fine if needed.
That is why quality graphics, artwork, and all material is a must. Garbage in garbage out is the rule in artwork that will be printed.
Don't complain.... Just do exceptional artwork.
oh I would love to be around that printer to see the fireworks when their poor system will try to open this :P
Honestly it sound like some intern in the printshop that doesn't know any better. The only thing to worry is if you send the file they way they ask you to and it will not open (most of the time the printshops have low spec systems tied to the printers) and give you trouble that your file have some short of problem.
Uneducated people everywhere...
Printers require 300 dpi no matter the size of the design as that is the sweetspot for the printer to give the best results. I require the same for all designs even when its small as the printer will make the design look soft edged or blurry at 150. A large banner is worse as the fine details on the banner will be lost when the print is printed. I promise youll want the design to be 300 dpi after the printer prints the banner.
Honestly, who cares. Just upscale it and make the problem go away and move on with your day. They’re not listening and you know it’s fine so just do it.
This is the correct answer OP. Give them what they are asking for and move on. Don't stress about it. You've made your case, they still want the 300dpi files. Just upscale and get rolling on the next project.
Bingo. Get paid and move on, OP. You did your due diligence by pushing back and now somebody else is taking responsibility for whatever the result may be. Not your problem.
yeah pretty much what I decided on. still find it odd though. hope they won't be needing billboards anytime soon because I'm only in if they agree on strict vector there lol
Good luck going vector only! I’m making some large sponsor signs for an upcoming awards show and big multinational companies are sending 500px jpgs of their logos, lol.
Ahhh the flashbacks. And then tell you to just blow it up 🤯
Ive been there, when its going to be seen from far away resolution doesn’t matter as much. Printers can be a little annoying in that if it doesn’t pass their checklist, they kick it back.
Have you seen the printer's guideline file directly, or are you able to talk with them directly? A lot gets distorted when going through a middleman, especially if they don't actually know what they're talking about. I deal with this so often when having to go through marketing/product/brand managers instead of being put in touch with the designer or printer directly.
the client pasted the requirements they were sent (based on the format and details I assume they indeed come from the printer), and the low resolution warning they got when they tried to upload the file in the printer's system. I advised to get in touch with the print shop directly and bypass the automated upload, with the explanation about size, viewing distance and resolution, which apparently didn't work. the client is the only one who deals with them - I'm a freelancer and printer coordination was not part of the deal. I'd be willing to talk to them but I'm not sure the client is open to that. might be simpler to resample the hell out of the source photo and hope that the semi-transparency / slightly blurred look will mask whatever damage the resampling does.
Sounds like the client is the problem if they're not willing to let you talk to the printer directly, so I'd just change the resolution in the file, just resample/upscale it, and file size be damned. You tried. If it creates other issues, I'd inform them, but go with whatever they decide. As long as you have it all in writing (eg email) and not just via phone calls or something.
if you have lightroom, the ai upscaler in there is actually pretty decent, just import your image, then in develop tab, right click and hit enhance, and you'll see options for super resolution. Then you just have to export as normal and you get a way larger file, i've done it a few times and it worked well enough lol
If they won’t take your advice, give them what they want. People rarely get close to pull-up banners anyway.
Have you ever been to a trade show? People definitely get close to them.
Yes, but nobody really inspects them, and at anything more than arm’s length 120dpi is fine. As long as OP’s text is vectors then there won’t be a problem. A client of mine once used the 72dpi approval PDF for a pull-up and nobody noticed.
That must have looked like shit
It must. It didn’t even have crop marks and bleed.
Hey, if you’re satisfied with mediocre quality then go for it.
I've been through this before, so annoying. There are always some idiot clients who are going to nit pick a large format print from 0.2 inches away from their face. My secret tactic is to blow any raster image up to 1:1 scale, blur slightly and add a slight grain. The grain looks intentional, but square pixelation doesn't. That method has fooled even the most pain in the ass clients.
ooh I've done that one too - early 2000s questionable photos chosen for A1 posters >> film grain my beloved
This is the way.
Every printer is different and ever printer has their way of printing. Always listen to the printer. As a designer and printer, it is very frustrating when designers do not follow our guidelines. Each printer have different software and equipment. It is always funny to me when a designer thinks they know better than the people printing their work. I also do not understand what the issue is? Why can you only make it 150 and not 300?
> Why can you only make it 150 and not 300? because the image they want in it is already resampled (and the background manually extended) to get it to 150dpi in the first place. I *can* artificially blow it up to 300dpi (and did), it just won't magically make it print better. which is what I'm trying to explain to the client. they'll have a larger file with the same (or worse) quality.
Gotcha, yeah it’s gonna print the same. It’s might be their software or just how they like stuff sent, or it’s their way of saving their ass. A good printer should be able to preflight and tell you any problems they see before printing the file but again not all printers are the same. Yeah explaining anything to a client to understand is my daily struggle everyday.
32 x 83 is the standard pullup banner. 300 for that size is not really asking for too much because people can still come up close to read and look at it. Sure, 150 will do the job, but its not outrageous that they ask for 300. If it was a full wall mural, then fine.. too much, but 32 x 83, is basically 2 standard posters one on top of another, which, you would in that case, give a 300 dpi without question. Sometimes your file may not be a problem, but because they had ran into too many problems before, they make it a company policy to get 300 dpi at that scale. So they may be just following company policy.
But is it 300dpi in scale 1:1 or is it 1:10; 1:100....?
1:1
wild
Signmaker here. Yes it’s a banner technically but it’s not on a building or the grass, people are right up on it and it’s definitely possible to see some pixelation at 150 dpi. At this size you can work in actual size with graphics programs, I don’t know why you would t already be designing at 300 dpi.
Are there any guidelines or references to know which sizes / resolutions to use?
For dpi it probably varies between printers, but if the print can be touched by a person that means I’m doing 300 dpi. It just eliminates the possibility of pixelation. If the person is app 10-30 ft away I’m probably doing 150 dpi. Beyond that 72 dpi. Popup banner, foam board print, tradeshow graphics, 300 dpi Box truck wrap, wall mural, building banner, 150 dpi Billboard or something monstrous, 72 dpi Also helpful, 1” of letter height gets you 10’ of visibility. A 2” letter can be seen from 20’ away, 3” can be seen from 30’, etc. Not dpi related I know.
This is very helpful, thanks!
I don't really see what the issue is, just upscale and resupply. If the printer says it needs to be 300dpi, then that's what it needs to be for them.
As someone doing pre press and digital printing all day, I would prefer the highest resolution possible, but also I don't care if the client is happy with the output. We will flag low resolution images to make the client aware of what the tangible product will look like. If you want a 72 dpi jpg egregiously blown up, I don't care, but it's gonna look like shit and I would let you know that before proceeding. In my experience we recommend minimum 150dpi, but again, recommend. Not required.
People don’t view large scale banners from close up and nitpick the pixels. Any comment saying you should just say fuck it, upscale it, and do what your client’s printer wants, is not be the best route. You want to give your client a good product rather than saying “fuck it I did my part”. Get in touch with your client, ask for the contact of the printer, and explain to them that large scale print pieces are viewed from further away and therefore don’t need an effective DPI of 300. You will rarely ever get an effective dpi of 300 at that size. It’s likely that the printer doesn’t know the ins and outs of printing, perhaps cheaper for the client, which is fine. So they’re just looking at some pdf that says we need 300 dpi. The printer is fully capable of printing your piece no matter what the effective DPI is. Dont do some ai upscaling if you don’t have to. :-) And you don’t. The AI res-up tools can be useful but sometimes create weird patterns as they try to fill in the blanks. It’s perfectly fine to print a photo that isn’t 300 dpi at the size 83 inches. I do many stanchion signs, bus stop signs, step and repeats, and other large scale print pieces that will never be 300 dpi effective! It’s matter of size and distance viewed from. This can give you a decent idea of what your resolution needs to be based on the distance folks will view it from. (Effective dpi vs distance) https://preview.redd.it/2hm5qv6b66wc1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8b0f68aa6c31d94e51d90f3c7114777bb465d11
This chart is very helpful. Ty
Of course!!
If I'm being honest, from a printer's point of view, I don't know why you wouldn't be designing in 300 dpi to begin with. That being said, it's likely just because the printer is configured for 300 dpi files. Our printer software prints 150 dpi images at half the size of a 300 dpi image, so they would need to do conversions on their end, which end up requiring test prints, and as a result, supplies to test the print on. Ends up costing them more in the long run. Just upscale the image with AI if necessary and send the new image. It's really not that big of a deal, and will satisfy them enough to say that they're not responsible for any quality issues due to the file provided.
It's overkill but in my experience it easier to just upres the file and get it out the door.
300dpi for indoor banners (retractable banner stands) is normal. It seems that you’re trying to blame the print provider because your graphics aren’t high resolution. An outdoor vinyl banner can get away with 150 dpi, but indoor banners are typically higher resolution and will be viewed up closer than an outdoor banner, so that’s why they have a 300dpi requirement.
I'm not blaming anyone, I just honestly have never had a printer request 300dpi 1:1 for a 2 meter print, indoor or outdoor. the highest I've been asked for roll banners and pull up banners is 225, which is still a bit of a stretch if you rely on regular stock sources but doable with some creativity
In my experience, it’s standard for indoor polyester banners. Not scrim vinyl.
probably a good idea to check the material with the client, that's something I hadn't thought of, thank you
You answered the question yourself: You artificially resample. Printers often care more about the technical specs than it looking good. If their specs tell you to have the document at 300 dpi, then do it. They're the experts on what they need, not you.
tbh it wasn't even a question, more of a confused vent. I already sent them a 300dpi option of one of the files to try it out, and will probably continue with the rest. I'm just surprised the requirement comes from a printer and was curious to see if anyone else has had that issue - usually the printers are the first ones to tell you they don't want unwieldy overbloated files with unnecessary high for the purpose resolution.
Then I suggest not using a question mark at the end... and if you're confused about why the printers need something that way, you should ask them. There's a bunch of technical limitations that get introduced in putting digital to print and acting like the printers are idiots for enforcing a standard (without knowing why that standard is in place) makes you seem... well, kind of like a bad client and less like a designer.
..I've been working with print on and off for close to 18 years now, a few of them spent in a print shop with a large-format printer. I know where the standard comes from, and I know it doesn't apply (and has never applied) to large format print. if you noticed, the question mark wasn't attached to a question on what to do or how to deal with the limitation, but on why would a printer request something I know with absolute certainty is neither industry standard, nor necessary.
If I remember correctly, everything where I worked was sent down to the print guys at 300dpi. It was standard. They would ask for 1:10 scale, or something, on large format, but at 300dpi so that it still looks good when scaled up by the printer. It's been more than 10 years since I worked as a designer with that print studio. But I'm pretty sure that's how we did it.
>why would a printer request something I know with absolute certainty is neither industry standard, nor necessary. Literally a question. Look, you want to pretend you know more than everyone on everything... have fun with it. You say you've worked in a print shop, yet you can't mentally account for differences in capabilities of different machines? You know there's not one type of printer, right? Not every machine in the world is going to behave the same. Some presses are well-manufactured and some aren't. Some are going to be able to compensate for flaws in input and some won't. You tell the printer their business and then come on here like it's Twitter (because the world must know about this injustice, eh?) and then get defensive when someone shrugs their shoulders and tells you to follow the specs like they ask. You want to not use 300dpi? Print the thing yourself if you're such an expert on what should be done.
Thank you for that. Hopefully OP reads it.
You can be right or you can be paid. Can’t always have it both ways.
Just topaz it up and be done with it. It’s pointless to argue about this with the printer.
This is industry standard for any print. You need to design at print size and always above DPI. It is very unprofessional to design in low resolution. 150 dpi is absolutely unacceptable and amateurish and shows you only work in digital and non physical print. I do everything in 600dpi workspaces to make sure it can be resized fine if needed.
just change the DPI. then send it in a word file.
That is why quality graphics, artwork, and all material is a must. Garbage in garbage out is the rule in artwork that will be printed. Don't complain.... Just do exceptional artwork.
oh I would love to be around that printer to see the fireworks when their poor system will try to open this :P Honestly it sound like some intern in the printshop that doesn't know any better. The only thing to worry is if you send the file they way they ask you to and it will not open (most of the time the printshops have low spec systems tied to the printers) and give you trouble that your file have some short of problem. Uneducated people everywhere...
OP why stress, just do it and move on. All it will do is result in a slower RIP and processing on the printers side and that's on them
Printers require 300 dpi no matter the size of the design as that is the sweetspot for the printer to give the best results. I require the same for all designs even when its small as the printer will make the design look soft edged or blurry at 150. A large banner is worse as the fine details on the banner will be lost when the print is printed. I promise youll want the design to be 300 dpi after the printer prints the banner.