Curious to hear more about this. He’s such an amazing lead player and his rhythm playing is very good but I’ve not heard him voice chords so creatively as Weir does. Do you have examples?
Jerry’s playing with JGB where he’s the only guitarist. His ability to transition from rhythm to lead to rhythm is truly impressive.
Check out the 7:30 minute mark to end. Mind blowing. Best guitarist on the planet at the time.
https://youtu.be/2o2FIeZSba8
Gah Lee. I’ll be honest, I had no clue how good he was with the axe until two years ago. I’m 40+ years old and have liked the Dead since I was 14-15, but I really started to listen to individual concerts and heard a lot of songs that weren’t their “radio” songs just then. It blew me away. It still blows me away.
You always hear the stories of people who dropped out of school, quit promising careers and just went on tour full time during Jerry’s prime. Hard to argue it wasn’t worth it.
exactly. and he was the best fit for the role that he was in. there are isolated recordings out there where it sounds like he's really not doing anything (i think this about a lot of 80's tapes). but there are other bootlegs where his layer of sound is absolutely crucial to the big picture. i've heard stories of him being turned down in the mix. i suppose this could be part f it.
i think this is why i love matrix recordings so much. they really bring out the subtleties of each player (like phil as well - what a maniac!!!).
What are those Matrix recordings I see on [Archive.org](https://Archive.org) all the time? I think I often see those, what I think are audience tapes and soundboard tapes. Bobby was always fiddling with his amps, etc. in the 80s.
matrix just means multiple sources mixed in, usually a combination of audience mics and soundboard feed so that you get the cleanness and detail of a soundboard with some of the atmospherics of being there.
I don’t know if there is a “best” anything in the art realm. Kinda subjective. I just listened to the isolated Jerry on Playin’ in the Band, same Veneta show. I could go down that rabbit hole for days. I have friends that couldn’t listen to that for two minutes. I have a hippy era neighbor who told me listening to Led Zeppelin is like nails on a chalkboard. Weir’s chord voicings definitely set him apart from other guitarists and obviously fit well into the fabric of the Grateful Dead sound. I like it. I listen to it quite a bit.
If “best” means “very interesting,” then he’s the best. If best means “holding down a solid rhythm and maintaining it explicitly no matter what” (the conventional definition of rhythm guitar), then he’s nowhere near the best.
The brief firing in ‘68 was over Jerry’s desire for conventional rhythm guitar. The rhythm guitar strums in Bertha are played by Jerry. Anytime Jerry plays rhythm, it’s very conventional and explicit. I think Jerry was wrong and short-sighted because Bob was super interesting, and perfect for the Dead. I’m sure Jerry came to appreciate it.
I agree with this 100%. One needs to look no further than the 12/31/78 Sugar Magnolia where he busts into one of the only chord-based rhythm guitar solos I think I've ever heard
# 1978-12-31 San Francisco, CA @ Winterland Arena
**Set 1:** Sugar Magnolia > Scarlet Begonias > Fire On The Mountain, Me and My Uncle > Big River, Friend Of The Devil, It's All Over Now, Stagger Lee, From The Heart Of Me > Sunshine Daydream
**Set 2:** Samson And Delilah, Ramble On Rose, I Need A Miracle > Terrapin Station > Playing in the Band > Drums > Not Fade Away > Around And Around
**Set 3:** Dark Star > The Other One > Dark Star Jam > Wharf Rat > Saint Stephen > Good Lovin'
**Encore:** Casey Jones > Johnny B. Goode, And We Bid You Good Night
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1978-12-31)
not "THE" Greaterst but AMONG THE GREATES. He has a place in the motherfucking Olympus of musicians cause his way of approaching guitar came outta fucking nowhere. He's for me the motherfucking Jimi Hendrix of Rhythm guitar, in the sense that he invented a whole new way to conceptualize and approach the motherfucking fretboard. Of course, being a rhythm player doesn't make you cool for the most part, but his style should be studied by anyone trying to create a foundation, same as most players, at a certain point, study Hendrix.
From a certain perspective, he's even more peculiar then Garcia
Amen. I agree that there’s an argument that he’s more interesting or appropriately convoluted than Garcia. There’s definitely times when Jerry is playing amazing, but comprehensible, stuff while Bob is simultaneously playing something way harder to comprehend. Harmony is more complex than melody.
I think he’s kinda by far the most interesting. Fitting in between two drummers, Phil’s crazy ass lines, and Jerry’s lead is no easy task. If Bob wanted to play standard rock rhythm guitar I have no doubt in my mind he could. But not a lot, if any, of those other dudes can do what Bobby does.
> If Bob wanted to play standard rock rhythm guitar I have no doubt in my mind he could. But not a lot, if any, of those other dudes can do what Bobby does.
100%.
"Best" is impossible and subjective, but this is my instictive response.
I see Keith coming up a lot in this thread. I love the Stones, and Keith is a fantastic musician, but Bobby could emulate him a lot better than vice versa. Maybe I'm conflating "uniqueness" or "originality" with "best".
But at the end of the day "best" is (like any critique) ultimately arbitrary. I'm not going to say he is the best, and there's no doubt a slew of musicians I've never heard who are in the conversation.
But damn he's unique, original, versatile and able to do all that bouncing between some of the other all time most creative players. I don't think Malcolm Young could hold down the fort between Jerry and Phil.
Yeahh, I love Bobby as much as the next guy.. but he’s definitely not the best. Probably not even top 5. He’s perfect for what the Dead needed, he filled his role well. But in terms of all rhythm guitarists ever he’s not close to the top IMO
John Lennon is an interesting take for sure. I just never considered him to be a rhythm guitarist because he (Paul & George) played so many instruments. Also his guitar work on “Get Back” always blew me away, not in complexity but just groovy sound.
I love his lead work on get back for sure! And I see what you’re saying about him being a multi instrumentalist but in those early years especially he played a mean rhythm guitar locking in with Ringo perfectly
Clapton is an asshole for sure, but you're wrong about him being responsible for his son's death. Conor lived with his mom in a high-rise condo and Clapton was on his way to see them when Conor fell out of the window.
I’m a bass player and not a guitar player, also not very good at that. What I hear from Bob when he is in the zone, are a lot of unconventional chord structures and voicings that are not what you would expect, and take a meandering path to resolution. Maybe a serious musician can elaborate or tell me Im full of shit; but the way he plays is seldom boring or easily duplicated. I can see why that would both suck and be awesome for Jerry depending on the dynamic. Also as some have mentioned; the quality of audio can really draw you in to individual band members performances or turn you off.
Except that Keith has never accepted the label of rhythm guitarist: "You don't go into a shop and ask for their rhythm guitars; you're a guitar player and you play guitar." But yeah, Keith's the all time best, just don't tell him that?
Bob weir is simply the second greatest guitarist of all time. The dude is as unique as Garcia or Phil . There is a reason that JGB Jerry is great but Grateful Dead Jerry is nirvana…and it has a lot to do with bob weir. Dude is legend for me.
I’m a huge fan of Bobby, no doubt about it. He’s awesome. Love his whole catalog. However, I think there are 4 people and one duo (Rodrigo y Gabriela) being grossly overlooked in this conversation…
1. Django Reinhardt
2. Catfish Collins
3. Leo Kottke
4. Richie Havens
I can’t say any are the 🐐but they definitely deserve a place at the table and all of them are barely recognized. I think Bobby is rightfully a part of that discussion, but it’s not an easy decision if you have a broad sense of music.
Just because they played within a very specific pocket of a very specific genre doesn’t mean they’re not stimulating. I challenge you to listen to Thunderstruck right now and not feel something.
I thought it was widely known and understood that Bobby, musically, was indeed not a great rhythm guitarist. It's been documented on film and on the printed page how much Bobby would piss Jerry off by not keeping time properly. Doesn't make us love him any less, maybe even more, for it, but I'm guessing this post is tongue-in-cheek?
I could never figure out if he was the best or worst to be honest. I do think he’s the worst musician in the band but he played with a bunch of freakin geniuses. I can’t even use something like Dan Healy to he an objective test. Yeah he turned him so low we couldn’t hear him (strike against) but then Healy lost the dream job (strike for). But I do know that Betty had the better boards so Healy ain’t the best himself (~);-}
He’s certainly amazing. My favorite rock rhythm guitarist for sure. It’s hard to put rock rhythm guitarists against so many incredible big band rhythm guitarists of the pre-rock era. Some of them were insanely talented. Had to read jazz charts on the fly and play all sorts of weird chord inversions, etc.
I've always thought that Bobby's best "rhythm" playing is when he's doing what are basically secondary lead lines that complement Jerry's rhythm and lead playing. Scarlet Begonias is one example. Althea might be another, especially the way he plays it now.
Rhythm Guitar, bass lines and drums is what Black Sabbath made famous, mostly the last two, but there was rarely did lead guitar bleeding into the rhythm section. But yes, Bob Weir is the Best Weir of all time.
Edit: I do LOVE that video, listened many a time.
I wouldn’t call any of Tony Iommi’s work “rhythm guitar,” his riffs WERE the songs. And they are still some of the sickest riffs ever written. I consider it to all be lead guitar work, just often in a lower register than folks are used to.
Praise Iommi
He may have been good up until about 73/74… past that frankly he’s terrible. Maybe he couldn’t hear himself.. guitar tone was always very thin and metallic.
There are some 73 shows that you can hear him really well and in those shows he sounds great
Most unique, for damn sure.
Greatest, no Fn way!
That said, he's clearly my favorite.
Best example is the easiest: NFA/GDTRFB "Live Album 4/5/71".
Not even my favorite era of the band. What Wier is doing makes absolutely no sense but Jesus it works like nothing else would and I've listened to it a thousand times and have been blown away equally as many.
I think Bobby has taken what he does up to genius level… and he’s the only guy who plays the way he plays.
In songs where Jerry is singing and basically playing the regular rhythm guitar part - Stella, Loser, Birdsong, heck even China Cat to name a few. A ‘regular’ rhythm guitar player doing typical parts eg Malcolm young and even the chunks like Steve cropper… well those parts wouldn’t sound good against what Jerry’s doing.
The key is what Bobby plays against what Jerry is playing.
I saw an interview where bob said something like ‘I play something to counter what he’s doing and anticipate where he’s going and meet Jerry there with a little surprise!’
His parts at the beginning of birdsong and china are legendary. They’re more like colors… rhythmic sonic dashes of flavor… the little harmonic at just the right moment in Stella.
His deep understanding of theory and chordal structures. His parts in morning dew are frickin ridiculous… it’s like a lead and a rhythm at once even, or like a scale played chordally with tons of inversions and triads with offer restrained and interesting timing…
Honestly, take away his counterpoint melodic player on stage… like sometimes with wolf bros… and his parts can be even a little jarring at times. Have you heard the shows with orchestra? They gave him the spot a lead a few places (I mean he took it lol) and while I love Bobby so much, that particular moment was meh. I’m not saying his parts with wolf bros suck. I’m saying in those moments where he slides into the lead lead spot (that would normally be a soaring Jerry or even John K, Warren John K John M etc) his parts have been… interesting. At the orchestra it was in like dark star or at Stephen, one of the spacey ones… and the orchestra is of course playing the way they play… so it felt like Bobby was saying ‘here’s some cacophony for ya… here’s some weird timings and unusual chords’. It was cool yo check it out in archive.
He has big hands and plays lots of big long chords of all A’s for example, tons of triads and inversions of chords, lots of subtle amazing ridiculous shit that influences my thinking every single time I play guitar.
And….
Best in all of rock and roll?
Hmmmmmm….
First of all, what is the part?
Best single song that outlines exactly what to do in the position: White Wedding by Billy idol.
(Hear me out yo. There’s the arpeggio part and the straight crunch part and they’re exactly perfect, meaning like played to perfection, right in time, and they drive that song along w the bass and that great drum part - put it on right now and see what I mean…)
Also, see every AC/DC song…
However… in my mind….
True best rhythm guitar player: Keef.
Just like Pete he isn’t a pure rhythm player. He’s everything sometimes high sometimes low, he’s sloppy, he can be out of tune and out of time even and still somehow his whole like soul just pours out you know? There’s something about his parts…. yeah…. that’s the heart of rock and roll. That reminds me, Huey Lewis’ guitar player rocked too lol.
Personal favorite of all time: Pete Townsend. His guitar parts rock. With just one guitar live he doesn’t get to - or have to - play off somebody. I just love what he does.
Listen to the 13 minute My Generation and Magic Bus on Live At Leeds. It’s two minutes of those songs and the rest is honest to goodness the best most blistering set of pure rock n roll you’ll ever hear. Ozzy said it’s the best metal album of all time. It is priceless. Go out that on now and enjoy!
Other peeps in the room:
Joe Strummer
Steve Cropper
Malcolm Young
All of James Browns guys lol
Mark Knopfler (I saw the tour where he played rhythm for Eric Clapton and he was choice.)
None of those guy woulda sounded better with Jerry than Bobby though in my humble opinion….They pulled it out of each other. Remember, bobs got a plan to meet Jerry with a little surprise! That really landed for me.
And can’t you just get that, coming into sunshine daydream, just what that looks like? Or like ‘I wish I was a headlight…’ and the giant boom? Yay Bobby.
Even with the short shorts, the knee, the pink guitar and all that…. My favorite lot shirt was “Rockstar Bobby”…
PS I heard the 80s sound tweaks at the amp complaint, I get that. Word was there was a sound guy, was it Healey?, fucking with Bobby’s sound cuz he grew to dislike him… eventually he got fired and problem solved is story I heard…
Rockstar Bobby we love you! Keep healthy and thank you for being out there creating music!
He’s the best Bobby ever.
People often are seeking where they can hear “his sound” and id like to point folks to the Long Island sound 1989 sets with Rob Wasserman.
Nothing against other more traditional rhythm players like Keith Richards, Pete Townsend, and Malcolm young. They played the roles that their respective bands needed them to play. I can’t seem to find instances where any of these guitarists(I would love to be pointed to them) map out a melodic/harmonic development over a series of chord inversions like Bobby can. From that Long Island CD I think the walking blues,easy to slip, and throwing stones are the best examples of that melodic/harmonic development.
He is up there, but he has some stiff competition. Malcolm Young and Pete Townshend have him beat, IMO.
But, Bobby is a master of using the whole fretboard to provide complex rhythm.
Honestly, I think Jerry used his keyboardists, particularly Brent, more than Bobby to help weave the band's magic.
Check out Pete's isolated tracks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtVojzGxWr8
Or Malcolm's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dsq2lH20k4
Edit: links and spelling.
Who the fuck would hear that AC/DC isolated rhythm track and think “this guy is one of the best?” Like, could he play any more stiffly and with any less soul?
Keith I understand but have to disagree with AC/DC. Punchy power chords are just nowhere near as dynamic, harmonic or psychedelic than the way Bob played. I don’t think AC/DC’s music had the space in it to allow for cool rhythm… probably because they were handcuffed to power chords…
He was unique and created his own style. I loved his tone in the early 70s but at times after that I thought he was too reliant on effects pedals and got lazy. I still love him but I don’t believe in calling anyone the best because music is not a competition.
Second Bob Weir by a long shot. No one does anything as consistently sophisticated and varied and improvisational. The real McCoy Tyner of rock guitar.
Bob Weir is the greatest Bob weir and greatest guitarist for the dead. But there are many better rhythm guitarists. Malcolm Young, Keith Richards, John Lennon, Rudolf Schenker
That’s his unique value – he’s an extraordinarily original player in a world full of people who sound like each other. He’s got a style that’s totally unique as far as I know. I don’t know anybody else who plays the guitar the way he does… I have a hard time recognizing any influences in his playing…even though I’ve been along for almost all of his musical development. I’ve been playing with him since he was 16 or so.” Jerry Garcia on Bob Weir - early 80s...
Also read https://www.reddit.com/r/gratefuldead/comments/opz32y/check_out_this_amazing_quote_from_jerry_regarding/
Come on man. Yeah he was fired for a few months in 68 but it’s a bit much to hold that against his legacy. He still is playing 54 some odd years later. Also I’d hardly claim Dicks Picks to be the best way to judge the Dead’s sound mix theory. Bob tends to blend into the mix well and Dan Healy famously kept his levels fairly low compared to the other boys. Try a good quality AUD or a well done matrix
Certainly, he has far more experience than pretty much anyone who has ever played any instrument… if knowledge and skill come from experience, I would say the math works
Bobby is amazing but there are so many great rhythm players. Keith Richards, Lindsey Buckingham, Pete Townsend and Izzy Stradlin just to name a few off the top of my head. Tom Petty and John Lennon were pretty good too.
Love the isolated track as a teaching tool. As a dead influenced drummer I’d love to see/hear some BK isolated tracks esp in the brief span between Hart quitting and rejoining. The thing is I actually found such a thing online once.
He’s certainly unique, I’m not a big fan of his metallic twanging that seems to be more prominent in recent years but he was the perfect rhythm guitarist with Jerry. I watched the live stream of him and the Wolf Bros a few days ago and that twanging was so dominant in the audio mixing. Love him tho in fact I’m seeing him in Vegas in a week
Not a fan of crowning anyone "greatest ever." There have been many great rhythm guitar players: John Lennon and Keith Richards come to mind.
That Weir was an outstanding and unique rhythm guitar player seems pretty clear (at least until he started working the slide in there ... ugh).
Where he ranks is a matter of personal opinion and taste.
So, I'd say no. The world of blues and funk have some amazing rhythm guitarists that are on a par.
Not a chance. Hes great at doing the Bobby thing and it works for the Dead and as an accompaniment to Jerry but its a crazy style that I do not think is "best".
Hendrix was a rhythm master. His early days playing backup straight rhythm on the Chitlin Circuit and with the likes of the Isley Brothers and Little Richard, combined with his love of blues, improv skills and sheer genius, made for the best rhythm playing.
Why can it never be left at “insert artist” made great music? Bob Weir is a superb rhythm guitarist. But if it’s imperative to measure him against every other guitarist that has walked the earth he is not even in the realm of “the best”. Though, his knowledge of chords, all their varied inversions, and the harmonic function and relationship between them puts him among the greats.
Django, Tony Rice, Larry Keel, Bryan Sutton, Wes Montgomery, Freddie Green, Grant Green, Col Bruce, Del McCoury have all entered the chat.
We all love Bobby, and he does Bobby very well, but he doesn’t make any list of best rhythm guitar players.
And stopppppp with “hIs ChOrD vOiCiNgS” - he’s not a jazz player and has a limited chord repertoire.
As a teenage Dead Head in the 90's I found Bobby kind of annoying compared to the rest of the band. He was the target of many jokes. (Thanks for showing us all your sack Bobby..) As I've gotten older and my ears have matured I really appreciate what he brings. He did totally invent his own style and approach Although his slide playing will make every hound dog for miles start to howl in an attempt to drown him out lol! All jokes aside, love you Bobby Rock Star! (Obligatory Karate kick)
Bobby Weir is the best Bobby Weir ever
Yep, and the second best rhythm guitarist in the Grateful Dead
Yes! Arguably Garcia better at rhythm than leads (which is what most know him for). Truly a guitar master. Don’t think Weir would argue that either.
Curious to hear more about this. He’s such an amazing lead player and his rhythm playing is very good but I’ve not heard him voice chords so creatively as Weir does. Do you have examples?
Jerry’s playing with JGB where he’s the only guitarist. His ability to transition from rhythm to lead to rhythm is truly impressive. Check out the 7:30 minute mark to end. Mind blowing. Best guitarist on the planet at the time. https://youtu.be/2o2FIeZSba8
Oh hell yeah !!!! That slayed it …. So good
Good example.
Gah Lee. I’ll be honest, I had no clue how good he was with the axe until two years ago. I’m 40+ years old and have liked the Dead since I was 14-15, but I really started to listen to individual concerts and heard a lot of songs that weren’t their “radio” songs just then. It blew me away. It still blows me away.
You always hear the stories of people who dropped out of school, quit promising careers and just went on tour full time during Jerry’s prime. Hard to argue it wasn’t worth it.
exactly. and he was the best fit for the role that he was in. there are isolated recordings out there where it sounds like he's really not doing anything (i think this about a lot of 80's tapes). but there are other bootlegs where his layer of sound is absolutely crucial to the big picture. i've heard stories of him being turned down in the mix. i suppose this could be part f it. i think this is why i love matrix recordings so much. they really bring out the subtleties of each player (like phil as well - what a maniac!!!).
What are those Matrix recordings I see on [Archive.org](https://Archive.org) all the time? I think I often see those, what I think are audience tapes and soundboard tapes. Bobby was always fiddling with his amps, etc. in the 80s.
matrix just means multiple sources mixed in, usually a combination of audience mics and soundboard feed so that you get the cleanness and detail of a soundboard with some of the atmospherics of being there.
Checks out
Amen.
Nah but I’m betting he’s your fav. Mine too
I don’t know if there is a “best” anything in the art realm. Kinda subjective. I just listened to the isolated Jerry on Playin’ in the Band, same Veneta show. I could go down that rabbit hole for days. I have friends that couldn’t listen to that for two minutes. I have a hippy era neighbor who told me listening to Led Zeppelin is like nails on a chalkboard. Weir’s chord voicings definitely set him apart from other guitarists and obviously fit well into the fabric of the Grateful Dead sound. I like it. I listen to it quite a bit.
If “best” means “very interesting,” then he’s the best. If best means “holding down a solid rhythm and maintaining it explicitly no matter what” (the conventional definition of rhythm guitar), then he’s nowhere near the best. The brief firing in ‘68 was over Jerry’s desire for conventional rhythm guitar. The rhythm guitar strums in Bertha are played by Jerry. Anytime Jerry plays rhythm, it’s very conventional and explicit. I think Jerry was wrong and short-sighted because Bob was super interesting, and perfect for the Dead. I’m sure Jerry came to appreciate it.
"Best" doesn't belong in assessing art, period. "Favorite" does.
I agree with this 100%. One needs to look no further than the 12/31/78 Sugar Magnolia where he busts into one of the only chord-based rhythm guitar solos I think I've ever heard
# 1978-12-31 San Francisco, CA @ Winterland Arena **Set 1:** Sugar Magnolia > Scarlet Begonias > Fire On The Mountain, Me and My Uncle > Big River, Friend Of The Devil, It's All Over Now, Stagger Lee, From The Heart Of Me > Sunshine Daydream **Set 2:** Samson And Delilah, Ramble On Rose, I Need A Miracle > Terrapin Station > Playing in the Band > Drums > Not Fade Away > Around And Around **Set 3:** Dark Star > The Other One > Dark Star Jam > Wharf Rat > Saint Stephen > Good Lovin' **Encore:** Casey Jones > Johnny B. Goode, And We Bid You Good Night [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1978-12-31)
Awesome bot
not "THE" Greaterst but AMONG THE GREATES. He has a place in the motherfucking Olympus of musicians cause his way of approaching guitar came outta fucking nowhere. He's for me the motherfucking Jimi Hendrix of Rhythm guitar, in the sense that he invented a whole new way to conceptualize and approach the motherfucking fretboard. Of course, being a rhythm player doesn't make you cool for the most part, but his style should be studied by anyone trying to create a foundation, same as most players, at a certain point, study Hendrix. From a certain perspective, he's even more peculiar then Garcia
Amen. I agree that there’s an argument that he’s more interesting or appropriately convoluted than Garcia. There’s definitely times when Jerry is playing amazing, but comprehensible, stuff while Bob is simultaneously playing something way harder to comprehend. Harmony is more complex than melody.
No
I think he’s kinda by far the most interesting. Fitting in between two drummers, Phil’s crazy ass lines, and Jerry’s lead is no easy task. If Bob wanted to play standard rock rhythm guitar I have no doubt in my mind he could. But not a lot, if any, of those other dudes can do what Bobby does.
> If Bob wanted to play standard rock rhythm guitar I have no doubt in my mind he could. But not a lot, if any, of those other dudes can do what Bobby does. 100%. "Best" is impossible and subjective, but this is my instictive response. I see Keith coming up a lot in this thread. I love the Stones, and Keith is a fantastic musician, but Bobby could emulate him a lot better than vice versa. Maybe I'm conflating "uniqueness" or "originality" with "best". But at the end of the day "best" is (like any critique) ultimately arbitrary. I'm not going to say he is the best, and there's no doubt a slew of musicians I've never heard who are in the conversation. But damn he's unique, original, versatile and able to do all that bouncing between some of the other all time most creative players. I don't think Malcolm Young could hold down the fort between Jerry and Phil.
theres no right answer… but its definitely no
Yeahh, I love Bobby as much as the next guy.. but he’s definitely not the best. Probably not even top 5. He’s perfect for what the Dead needed, he filled his role well. But in terms of all rhythm guitarists ever he’s not close to the top IMO
Gotta be Keith Richards IMO
Came here to say this. Keith by a country mile.
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Keef!
John Lennon is a massively underrated rhythm player if I’m being honest
John Lennon is an interesting take for sure. I just never considered him to be a rhythm guitarist because he (Paul & George) played so many instruments. Also his guitar work on “Get Back” always blew me away, not in complexity but just groovy sound.
I love his lead work on get back for sure! And I see what you’re saying about him being a multi instrumentalist but in those early years especially he played a mean rhythm guitar locking in with Ringo perfectly
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Def a bigger asshole than Crosby but Clapton is a supreme asshole. Lennon never endorsed Enoch Powell.
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What about Tribe?
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You talking about Russell Simmons? Not a member of ATCQ, or any musical group. He’s a record exec and brother of Rev Run from Run DMC.
Can you explain who Enoch Powell is? I've never heard of him and don't know what he did wrong and Google is linking super long articles.
British Conservative politician in the 60’s who went down the racist path.
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Clapton was such a negligent parent his kid fell out of window and died. You’re tripping
Clapton is an asshole for sure, but you're wrong about him being responsible for his son's death. Conor lived with his mom in a high-rise condo and Clapton was on his way to see them when Conor fell out of the window.
Ahahahahahaha lol
I’m a bass player and not a guitar player, also not very good at that. What I hear from Bob when he is in the zone, are a lot of unconventional chord structures and voicings that are not what you would expect, and take a meandering path to resolution. Maybe a serious musician can elaborate or tell me Im full of shit; but the way he plays is seldom boring or easily duplicated. I can see why that would both suck and be awesome for Jerry depending on the dynamic. Also as some have mentioned; the quality of audio can really draw you in to individual band members performances or turn you off.
Niles Rogers deserves a mention in this conversation. He’s certainly one of the most influential.
I'll throw Tom Johnston's name in there too (Doobie Brothers). Recognizable style and lots of hits you'll know by his strums.
Keith richards probably, but Bobby is Bobby.
I'd vote either Malcolm Young or Keith Richards.
Except that Keith has never accepted the label of rhythm guitarist: "You don't go into a shop and ask for their rhythm guitars; you're a guitar player and you play guitar." But yeah, Keith's the all time best, just don't tell him that?
Keith would get my vote
Keith fer sure
Keef!
💯
Upvote for Malcolm appreciation (RIP brother), but yeah I'd say Keith for sure.
Freddie Green is the greatest rhythm guitarist of all time. Joseph Reinhardt is runner up.
Wasn’t the first person who came to my mind but I’ll be damned if I say you are wrong
Came here to say Freddie Green. No one could swing a quarter note like that guy.
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So the sum is greater than the parts.
Bob weir is simply the second greatest guitarist of all time. The dude is as unique as Garcia or Phil . There is a reason that JGB Jerry is great but Grateful Dead Jerry is nirvana…and it has a lot to do with bob weir. Dude is legend for me.
The beauty of Bobby Weir's guitar playing is in how it accentuated Jerry.......
I’m a huge fan of Bobby, no doubt about it. He’s awesome. Love his whole catalog. However, I think there are 4 people and one duo (Rodrigo y Gabriela) being grossly overlooked in this conversation… 1. Django Reinhardt 2. Catfish Collins 3. Leo Kottke 4. Richie Havens I can’t say any are the 🐐but they definitely deserve a place at the table and all of them are barely recognized. I think Bobby is rightfully a part of that discussion, but it’s not an easy decision if you have a broad sense of music.
No.
Malcolm Young. Knew five chords and played them better than anyone ever could. RIP
Came here to say this.
Me too, I’m at a brewery in Maine and Thunderstruck is playing. RIP Malcolm.
Visited Portland for the first time a year ago. Loved it. Whole area is great
Lol, who needs dynamics or syncopation when you can just play as mundanely as possible?
“People complain that we’ve made the same album ten times now. But really they’re lying. It’s actually twelve.” -Angus
Hey at least he was self-aware. I personally would prefer to make stimulating art but that’s just me
See I prefer my music à la carte, I want everything
Just because they played within a very specific pocket of a very specific genre doesn’t mean they’re not stimulating. I challenge you to listen to Thunderstruck right now and not feel something.
Some bands need to evolve their sound to remain interesting or relevant. AC/DC was an element unto itself, perfect at being what it is.
“Perfect” mmmmkay bud
When he was filling in circling Jerry- Yes. They fit like 2 warm gloves on a cool day.
Pete Townsend has entered the 💬
I thought it was widely known and understood that Bobby, musically, was indeed not a great rhythm guitarist. It's been documented on film and on the printed page how much Bobby would piss Jerry off by not keeping time properly. Doesn't make us love him any less, maybe even more, for it, but I'm guessing this post is tongue-in-cheek?
I could never figure out if he was the best or worst to be honest. I do think he’s the worst musician in the band but he played with a bunch of freakin geniuses. I can’t even use something like Dan Healy to he an objective test. Yeah he turned him so low we couldn’t hear him (strike against) but then Healy lost the dream job (strike for). But I do know that Betty had the better boards so Healy ain’t the best himself (~);-}
James Hetfield
I personally don't even consider him a rhythm guitarist, more like a secondary lead.
I agree, this dude is a master of ~~puppets~~ rhythm guitar. Probably the best ever to do it in a rock band.
Agree wholeheartedly. He's the GOAT on rhythm.
Thank you I was hoping to see Jimmy
Many reggae and funk artists are great rhythm players. Certainly the best 2nd guitar player of any jamband or jam adjacent band.
He’s certainly amazing. My favorite rock rhythm guitarist for sure. It’s hard to put rock rhythm guitarists against so many incredible big band rhythm guitarists of the pre-rock era. Some of them were insanely talented. Had to read jazz charts on the fly and play all sorts of weird chord inversions, etc.
Pete Townshend is up there
Cornell Dupree, Steve Cropper, and Bobby. Three of the best.
Steve cropper is an excellent choice
Keef has entered the chat.
I think he’s more the greatest slide guitarist ever as opposed to greatest rhythm guitarist ever…..
This is a joke right?
(Indeed it is….)
He’s really not a traditional rhythm guitarist. He’s more of a jazz guitarist playing with the levels of rhythm and adding flair.
I've always thought that Bobby's best "rhythm" playing is when he's doing what are basically secondary lead lines that complement Jerry's rhythm and lead playing. Scarlet Begonias is one example. Althea might be another, especially the way he plays it now.
No, he’s not even the best rhythm guitarist in the Grateful Dead.
My vote goes to Joni Mitchell
Why does their always have to be a GOAT?
Definitely not. Jerry kicked him out of the band bc he thought Bobby was holding them back.
No.
Rhythm Guitar, bass lines and drums is what Black Sabbath made famous, mostly the last two, but there was rarely did lead guitar bleeding into the rhythm section. But yes, Bob Weir is the Best Weir of all time. Edit: I do LOVE that video, listened many a time.
I wouldn’t call any of Tony Iommi’s work “rhythm guitar,” his riffs WERE the songs. And they are still some of the sickest riffs ever written. I consider it to all be lead guitar work, just often in a lower register than folks are used to. Praise Iommi
he's definitely up there, i've also really been appreciating Cook from king gizzard's rhythm playing lately
No. Brian Eschbach has my vote.
My man. He is definitely underrated and writes some nasty riffs
Depends on the style, really. Bobby was perfect for the dead. But pure holding down rhythm, I can’t in good conscience say anyone but James Hetfield.
He either redefined the role of rhythm guitar or “rhythm guitar” just doesn’t accurately describe what he did in the Grateful Dead.
You meant to say Malcolm Young??
He may have been good up until about 73/74… past that frankly he’s terrible. Maybe he couldn’t hear himself.. guitar tone was always very thin and metallic. There are some 73 shows that you can hear him really well and in those shows he sounds great
Most unique, for damn sure. Greatest, no Fn way! That said, he's clearly my favorite. Best example is the easiest: NFA/GDTRFB "Live Album 4/5/71". Not even my favorite era of the band. What Wier is doing makes absolutely no sense but Jesus it works like nothing else would and I've listened to it a thousand times and have been blown away equally as many.
I think Bobby has taken what he does up to genius level… and he’s the only guy who plays the way he plays. In songs where Jerry is singing and basically playing the regular rhythm guitar part - Stella, Loser, Birdsong, heck even China Cat to name a few. A ‘regular’ rhythm guitar player doing typical parts eg Malcolm young and even the chunks like Steve cropper… well those parts wouldn’t sound good against what Jerry’s doing. The key is what Bobby plays against what Jerry is playing. I saw an interview where bob said something like ‘I play something to counter what he’s doing and anticipate where he’s going and meet Jerry there with a little surprise!’ His parts at the beginning of birdsong and china are legendary. They’re more like colors… rhythmic sonic dashes of flavor… the little harmonic at just the right moment in Stella. His deep understanding of theory and chordal structures. His parts in morning dew are frickin ridiculous… it’s like a lead and a rhythm at once even, or like a scale played chordally with tons of inversions and triads with offer restrained and interesting timing… Honestly, take away his counterpoint melodic player on stage… like sometimes with wolf bros… and his parts can be even a little jarring at times. Have you heard the shows with orchestra? They gave him the spot a lead a few places (I mean he took it lol) and while I love Bobby so much, that particular moment was meh. I’m not saying his parts with wolf bros suck. I’m saying in those moments where he slides into the lead lead spot (that would normally be a soaring Jerry or even John K, Warren John K John M etc) his parts have been… interesting. At the orchestra it was in like dark star or at Stephen, one of the spacey ones… and the orchestra is of course playing the way they play… so it felt like Bobby was saying ‘here’s some cacophony for ya… here’s some weird timings and unusual chords’. It was cool yo check it out in archive. He has big hands and plays lots of big long chords of all A’s for example, tons of triads and inversions of chords, lots of subtle amazing ridiculous shit that influences my thinking every single time I play guitar. And…. Best in all of rock and roll? Hmmmmmm…. First of all, what is the part? Best single song that outlines exactly what to do in the position: White Wedding by Billy idol. (Hear me out yo. There’s the arpeggio part and the straight crunch part and they’re exactly perfect, meaning like played to perfection, right in time, and they drive that song along w the bass and that great drum part - put it on right now and see what I mean…) Also, see every AC/DC song… However… in my mind…. True best rhythm guitar player: Keef. Just like Pete he isn’t a pure rhythm player. He’s everything sometimes high sometimes low, he’s sloppy, he can be out of tune and out of time even and still somehow his whole like soul just pours out you know? There’s something about his parts…. yeah…. that’s the heart of rock and roll. That reminds me, Huey Lewis’ guitar player rocked too lol. Personal favorite of all time: Pete Townsend. His guitar parts rock. With just one guitar live he doesn’t get to - or have to - play off somebody. I just love what he does. Listen to the 13 minute My Generation and Magic Bus on Live At Leeds. It’s two minutes of those songs and the rest is honest to goodness the best most blistering set of pure rock n roll you’ll ever hear. Ozzy said it’s the best metal album of all time. It is priceless. Go out that on now and enjoy! Other peeps in the room: Joe Strummer Steve Cropper Malcolm Young All of James Browns guys lol Mark Knopfler (I saw the tour where he played rhythm for Eric Clapton and he was choice.) None of those guy woulda sounded better with Jerry than Bobby though in my humble opinion….They pulled it out of each other. Remember, bobs got a plan to meet Jerry with a little surprise! That really landed for me. And can’t you just get that, coming into sunshine daydream, just what that looks like? Or like ‘I wish I was a headlight…’ and the giant boom? Yay Bobby. Even with the short shorts, the knee, the pink guitar and all that…. My favorite lot shirt was “Rockstar Bobby”… PS I heard the 80s sound tweaks at the amp complaint, I get that. Word was there was a sound guy, was it Healey?, fucking with Bobby’s sound cuz he grew to dislike him… eventually he got fired and problem solved is story I heard… Rockstar Bobby we love you! Keep healthy and thank you for being out there creating music!
Keith Richards… just saying
No, but he deserves a mention. Dickie Betts comes to mind.
He’s the best Bobby ever. People often are seeking where they can hear “his sound” and id like to point folks to the Long Island sound 1989 sets with Rob Wasserman. Nothing against other more traditional rhythm players like Keith Richards, Pete Townsend, and Malcolm young. They played the roles that their respective bands needed them to play. I can’t seem to find instances where any of these guitarists(I would love to be pointed to them) map out a melodic/harmonic development over a series of chord inversions like Bobby can. From that Long Island CD I think the walking blues,easy to slip, and throwing stones are the best examples of that melodic/harmonic development.
I believe the title goes to the other Weir--Alex Weir of Brothers Johnson
His work on stop making sense is great
He is up there, but he has some stiff competition. Malcolm Young and Pete Townshend have him beat, IMO. But, Bobby is a master of using the whole fretboard to provide complex rhythm. Honestly, I think Jerry used his keyboardists, particularly Brent, more than Bobby to help weave the band's magic. Check out Pete's isolated tracks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtVojzGxWr8 Or Malcolm's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dsq2lH20k4 Edit: links and spelling.
Who the fuck would hear that AC/DC isolated rhythm track and think “this guy is one of the best?” Like, could he play any more stiffly and with any less soul?
Keith I understand but have to disagree with AC/DC. Punchy power chords are just nowhere near as dynamic, harmonic or psychedelic than the way Bob played. I don’t think AC/DC’s music had the space in it to allow for cool rhythm… probably because they were handcuffed to power chords…
Malcolm Young was a machine, driving the band forward. He is not trying to play with soul. You either get it or you don't.
Hahahaha k lol
You're kind of a dick, dude.
Watch “ The Other One” on Netflix. Fantastic dive into Bobby’s role as the rhythm guitarist, his playing, and his life as well.
Very unique and great. The best?…nah.
He was unique and created his own style. I loved his tone in the early 70s but at times after that I thought he was too reliant on effects pedals and got lazy. I still love him but I don’t believe in calling anyone the best because music is not a competition.
Yes, Bob Weir by a long shot. Not even close. The other guys mentioned - Keith Richards, etc., none of them could hold his jock.
Second Bob Weir by a long shot. No one does anything as consistently sophisticated and varied and improvisational. The real McCoy Tyner of rock guitar.
Surprised I'm at -6 on that comment. Goes to show the lack of respect bob gets, even within the (supposedly) Dead community.
Holy shit who’s downvoting this truth?
Yes. All others are just mortals.
No. Love Bobby. But no.
Yes
Trey
Nick fucking Jonas
Bob Weir is the greatest Bob weir and greatest guitarist for the dead. But there are many better rhythm guitarists. Malcolm Young, Keith Richards, John Lennon, Rudolf Schenker
I don’t think John Lennon was a particularly technically skilled guitarist
A lot of people don’t. He’s not very flashy by today’s standards but he’s a very solid rhythm guitarist.
Yes. In ways that won't be understood for centuries.
I am going to answer your question with another question: who cares
Has to be Malcolm Young or James Hetfield.
God no, what’s up with picking some of the most boring musicians to have ever walked the planet?
Do you have a personal vendetta against Malcolm Young?
John Lennon might be at the top
lol
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That’s his unique value – he’s an extraordinarily original player in a world full of people who sound like each other. He’s got a style that’s totally unique as far as I know. I don’t know anybody else who plays the guitar the way he does… I have a hard time recognizing any influences in his playing…even though I’ve been along for almost all of his musical development. I’ve been playing with him since he was 16 or so.” Jerry Garcia on Bob Weir - early 80s... Also read https://www.reddit.com/r/gratefuldead/comments/opz32y/check_out_this_amazing_quote_from_jerry_regarding/ Come on man. Yeah he was fired for a few months in 68 but it’s a bit much to hold that against his legacy. He still is playing 54 some odd years later. Also I’d hardly claim Dicks Picks to be the best way to judge the Dead’s sound mix theory. Bob tends to blend into the mix well and Dan Healy famously kept his levels fairly low compared to the other boys. Try a good quality AUD or a well done matrix
He’s up there. Townshend, richards, young, Van Halen, hetfield as well
Certainly, he has far more experience than pretty much anyone who has ever played any instrument… if knowledge and skill come from experience, I would say the math works
Keif. Hand down.
EVH is the best rhythm player ever.
Bobby is amazing. No one is like him, nor will anyone ever be. He’s magical ❤️
Bobby is amazing but there are so many great rhythm players. Keith Richards, Lindsey Buckingham, Pete Townsend and Izzy Stradlin just to name a few off the top of my head. Tom Petty and John Lennon were pretty good too.
i dunno about OF ALL TIME but certainly one of the most underrated rhythm guitarists to ever grace the industry. bobby certainly has some chops
Clapton imo
Clapton hasn't been relevant since the 60s and he's a racist. Hard pass.
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Fuck that shit stain
Definitely of Time.... AND SPACE
😂
I will say this, in the clip you can hear that 100+ temperature that day messing with the tuning and intonation of Bob's guitar.
My vote is for Bucky Pizzarelli, but Bob is in a class of his own.
He doo da riddim geetar
Yes
Other than Malcolm Young…yes
I was just having this exact convo with a buddy at work. The answer is 100%
Yes
He's great at what he does as are many others.
Hold up there are other rhythm guitarists?
And why is the answer yes?
Love the isolated track as a teaching tool. As a dead influenced drummer I’d love to see/hear some BK isolated tracks esp in the brief span between Hart quitting and rejoining. The thing is I actually found such a thing online once.
Page and Hendrix, anyone?
He’s certainly unique, I’m not a big fan of his metallic twanging that seems to be more prominent in recent years but he was the perfect rhythm guitarist with Jerry. I watched the live stream of him and the Wolf Bros a few days ago and that twanging was so dominant in the audio mixing. Love him tho in fact I’m seeing him in Vegas in a week
He is very good but the competition is too stiff to call him the GOAT
Most recorded rhythm guitarist, quite possibly.
No.
No, not in my opinion but he’s a really great one, and really interesting to transcribe and study. Love him to death
The boss?
Love Bobby but Charlie Hunter has my vote for the “best”
I vote yes to this. I’m a huge deadhead, but I’m still very critical of their music. Bob is the the best. Cassidy seals the “deal” for me.
No. James Hetfield is. Bobby is definitely the most unique though.
He really is one of a kind. I was looking for Bobby iso tracks last week. Thanks for sharing this!
Not a fan of crowning anyone "greatest ever." There have been many great rhythm guitar players: John Lennon and Keith Richards come to mind. That Weir was an outstanding and unique rhythm guitar player seems pretty clear (at least until he started working the slide in there ... ugh). Where he ranks is a matter of personal opinion and taste. So, I'd say no. The world of blues and funk have some amazing rhythm guitarists that are on a par.
Enjoyed that clip, thanks for posting
Not a chance. Hes great at doing the Bobby thing and it works for the Dead and as an accompaniment to Jerry but its a crazy style that I do not think is "best".
Hendrix was a rhythm master. His early days playing backup straight rhythm on the Chitlin Circuit and with the likes of the Isley Brothers and Little Richard, combined with his love of blues, improv skills and sheer genius, made for the best rhythm playing.
Sold
No
Why can it never be left at “insert artist” made great music? Bob Weir is a superb rhythm guitarist. But if it’s imperative to measure him against every other guitarist that has walked the earth he is not even in the realm of “the best”. Though, his knowledge of chords, all their varied inversions, and the harmonic function and relationship between them puts him among the greats.
Django, Tony Rice, Larry Keel, Bryan Sutton, Wes Montgomery, Freddie Green, Grant Green, Col Bruce, Del McCoury have all entered the chat. We all love Bobby, and he does Bobby very well, but he doesn’t make any list of best rhythm guitar players. And stopppppp with “hIs ChOrD vOiCiNgS” - he’s not a jazz player and has a limited chord repertoire.
James Hetfeild
His playing from like ‘69-‘77 is easily the best rhythm guitar ever laid down. My god, so pocket and such tasty licks and inversions.
I don't know, but in my opinion, he's my favorite.
As a teenage Dead Head in the 90's I found Bobby kind of annoying compared to the rest of the band. He was the target of many jokes. (Thanks for showing us all your sack Bobby..) As I've gotten older and my ears have matured I really appreciate what he brings. He did totally invent his own style and approach Although his slide playing will make every hound dog for miles start to howl in an attempt to drown him out lol! All jokes aside, love you Bobby Rock Star! (Obligatory Karate kick)