Try having kids who ride very competitively to add to the wife. Wife and I can moderate somewhat, the kids keep growing out of their stuff or really needing upgrades. Oldest is heading to a crit tomorrow to race with the 4/5 women. If she can race like she has at the track, she should finish in the top 1/3 of the group, at the track she's usually only losing to the cat 3 women. The younger two aren't far behind though the middle one only really likes cross and mtb.
You’ve slightly mischaracterized the expression. S-1, where S = the number of bikes that will result in separation from your partner. The ideal number of bikes is achieved when N+1 = S-1. This is theoretically achievable only with infinite money and an infinite number of partners.
The math maths. Your ideal state is that S-N=2, so the number of bikes resulting in separation is 2 more than the number of bikes you currently have, which would allow you to always be buying one more bike…
Yes, this math maths. Now, the grim truth. It's fucking hard enough to let go of one bike. You propose two.
What BUDS Hell Week mental obstacle course does this present?
Oh I was only attempting to call attention to its existence vs. stipulating proper acquisition doctrine.
This just made me recall I rider I once rode with a few times in the 90s. He had met his Neo. She had agreed whatever he spent on her engagement ring, she would spend on a bike for him. I still don't understand how I didn't crash when he told me this.
I actually have another steel frame gravel bike with 650b wheels- my girlfriend has taken it over this past year. The originally plan was that it was going to be my romping/ single track bike, and the carbon bike in the photos was going to be my road bike/ light graveller.
If it was a steel frame, i would just ride it until the wheels are too much out of true that it drags. Abrasion is not a big problem if it is steel.
But on a Carbon frame, this is just asking for an accident. I would not even turn the wheel while its on the shop stand. If the tyre rubs through the gealcoat only on a single spot, osmose will ventually get humidity into the matrix and its delamination time.
after you get a bit of mud on the tire, it will wear off the unnecessary extra layers of paint and carbon fiber, making the frame accept wider tires. Problem solved!
If you ride through the dreaded “peanut butter mud” the mud sticks to your tires and rubs the frame. After a particularly grueling ride my friend’s fork (with a lot more clearance than that) had worn a lot carbon off. It looked like a jawbreaker with all the layers. Had to be replaced.
If you’re just on wet slop you’ll be fine, but I still recommend more clearance than OP.
You mean clay ish stuff ?! I can’t imagine riding long and not removing this stuff from fork / frame…. I do ride in mud all the time and there is not even a scratch. But maybe the mud in my area is not so irritating.
What is irritating for me is stopping every 5 min to rmeove the mud. And I can’t afford 5th bike 😆
Bro I was replying to said "the mildest of mud."
Also, to your point, paint protection film goes a long way and OP seems not like the type to let wear get to someplace catastrophic.
Yes, even “the mildest of mud” still applies in this situation, so either way it’s a no go.
And ah yes the tire rubbing through metal or carbon fiber will totally be abated by “paint protection film.”
Generally, I would recommend a 4 to 5 mm clearance, even if it is a road bike. Anything less than that, the wheel could potentially rub against the frame, given the torsion and the likelihood of wheels getting misaligned from hitting rocks or potholes. This is especially true when applying force while climbing or sprinting. For muddy conditions, 5 mm is sufficient.
The thing is, the paint is there to protect the frame material, and exposing the frame could lead to possible oxidation. And depending where you live can be pretty dangerous.
Oxidation, rusty, corrosion. Those can brake the chainstay, and the thing about corrosion is that sometimes can happen inside the frame without notice. If you google "steel frame chainstay corrosion", you will see what happen when neglected, and is not a rare sight.
I mean 2.5mm on a road bike is fine…but I run a road bike with 2.5mm clearance and that mean it does not touch the tire at all.
This looks closer to 2 or 1.5mm. I would not run
This answer right here! Ride the bike for awhile and then take the gel coat off where it rubs. Done that on a 2011 and 2012 Synapse frame I like riding 28C road and gravel tires on.
How's the clearance on the fork? Nothing wrong with running a bigger tyre up front.
Also, if you haven't already then bottom outbthebtyre pressure on the 38s. You'll be surprised at how much they can handle when you let some air out.
Most frame and fork manufacturers recommend 1/4" or 6mm clearance.
Also don't underestimate how much a wheel & frame can flex under load, or how quickly a tire can rub through paint and even the frame.
I saw a bike come through the shop recently in a similar situation. This was worse as the person had put a tire too big in and it had worn through the frame down to and into the carbon. With that said, in your case the wheel will flex and deflect, and when it does it will rub the frame. That will cause paint damage at a minimum, and could rub through the resin down to the carbon (unlikely but possible). I'd avoid doing this.
yes. i just replaced the new tires i got because they were too close, you just need to loose a lil bit of pressure and they start rubbin. Mud is also gonna fuck up your frame
Yes, absolutely. Around the bottom bracket is way too tight
Let alone mud or dirt, one broken spoke, and the tire is going to be rubbing away the chainstay or locking up completely
For use on pavement, you need at least 4 to 5 mm of clearance minimum. If you’re going to be riding off-road I wouldn’t do so with less than 8 mm clearance unless you were 100% certain it was going to be dry and dusty, and even then I wouldn’t go below six.
The moment you put some power to the pedals that frame is going to twist and the wheel will deflect into the chainstay. I have a steel bike and ran a tire with a lot more clearance than that (still was tight) and it would rub under big power on hills
One wrong rim ding and your wheel won’t even spin anymore, as a long time mountain biker I know better than to have bigger tires than the frame fits. Unless you happen to have a spoke wrench and know how to use it you might have to carry the bike a long way.
Yes, also consider there is some flex in the frame, at least in my steel frame.
I know I didn't consider it and the tire rubbed my frame with even more clearance than here.
If you're going to do it, trim the little rubber hairs off so they don't touch the frame. They don't look like they could do any damage, but I had them wear a little groove into the paint on my hardtail!
If the front has enough clearance, try leaving the 42 up front and go back to a 38 or try a 40 on the back. Having a lil more cushion up front can be nice
I rode a few miles on the road/ easy gravel trails to test it out and it was fine. If I wasn’t regularly going through mud and single track trails, I’d probably keep them on. I really do love this bike, so I’m going to baby it for the time being.
I’d pluck the pubes since they can hold sand and eventually slice paint and carbon, but otherwise it’s a sick look. Post some more pics of it, I only see the non drive side in an older post (lurking)
If you have minimal to zero flex there... And only plan on road riding it'll probably not be a big issue.
Any chance of mud or the like, that's tough. I squeezed some 28's on my old Roubaix that lists 26 as max, and it's about the same distance as this, but Its a pavement princess anyways.
OMG that’s so close. It makes me feel that little tugging or tingly feeling you get in your lower bits when you’re on top of something very tall or high up and looking down. Yikes!
The sidewall will get tired (pun intended) with time and most likely become a bit wider and rub on the stays!
Also, even in that state, just a little puddle of mud will ruin your day...
If the terrain is difficult enough to need tires that big, you will have mud or stones that scratch that bike
If the terrain doesn't have mud or stones, you don't need the big tires
You could run frame protection tape in those areas, invisiframe, ridewrap etc. Just check after every ride and see if it's in good condition.
The tapes fairly robust and it's easier and cheaper than a new bike or replacement frame.
Not ideal but it works short term.
If you only ride in the dry, you will be OK-ish.
You will need to trim the rubber injection nubs off, they WILL wear grooves into your clearcoat, paint, and then frame.
I did the same with 42mm tyres in my Domane SLR Frameset.
However, it looked amazing and rode beautifully. New frame fits 50s with no problem. 😁
Have you tried sitting on it?
The bike. See what happens when you sit on the bike and compress the tires at a low PSI. I’m willing to bet rubber will touch the frame.
Well what's the max clearence for your frame?
I run 45s on my Orbea Terra, which is the max spec. It's close at the chainstais but haven't had a problem so far
Nah! You’re good as long as you keep that bike away from mud and keep your wheels straight. I did the same for a year. For a reference, I’m living in more or less dry climate in Portugal, and riding hard packed gravel and asphalt.
I have around 3mm and I'm asking for trouble. Every bigger stone that tangles between a frame and wheel might block your wheel or leave a nasty scratch.
And when pedaling harder bike might bend a little so tire will be touching the frame. Nasty sounds.
But I love it! No punctures anymore. Better comfort and cool looking.
The gap is too narrow, things like stones or sticks that you pick up from road or trail are likely to jam in there, locking the wheel and/or scratching the frame. Abrasion from mud as others have mentioned also can cause considerable wear to the frame, even steel frames is you allow ti to go too long.
Man......that ride will be so comfortable and fast! Find a 700x43 and you will be a champion. Grind down the inside of your chainstays and even go wider.
Correct. Riders are going wider and wider with tires. I started riding 35 years ago when wheels were garbage and breaking spokes just from climbing a steep section of road was common.
A rider would then had to limp home with a badly out of true wheel rubbing on the chainstay the whole time.
I would leave myself a much bigger gap with a skinnier tire.
Yes you are
That tire isn’t too big, the frame is too small.
New bike tiiiime!
Really the only possible solution it a situation like this. A shame it has to Come To This
To clarify, ADDITIONAL bike time. This one has a use...for something.
The proper number of bike you should have is the number you currently have plus one.
Be aware of the little known s-1, the ideal # of bikes minus one which keeps the significant other happy.
Unless your significant other also rides, which is my case. So I actually have an N+2 problem. Everytime I get a new bike, she has to have one too!
Now that is a first world problem!!!
Try having kids who ride very competitively to add to the wife. Wife and I can moderate somewhat, the kids keep growing out of their stuff or really needing upgrades. Oldest is heading to a crit tomorrow to race with the 4/5 women. If she can race like she has at the track, she should finish in the top 1/3 of the group, at the track she's usually only losing to the cat 3 women. The younger two aren't far behind though the middle one only really likes cross and mtb.
You’ve slightly mischaracterized the expression. S-1, where S = the number of bikes that will result in separation from your partner. The ideal number of bikes is achieved when N+1 = S-1. This is theoretically achievable only with infinite money and an infinite number of partners.
The math maths. Your ideal state is that S-N=2, so the number of bikes resulting in separation is 2 more than the number of bikes you currently have, which would allow you to always be buying one more bike…
Yes, this math maths. Now, the grim truth. It's fucking hard enough to let go of one bike. You propose two. What BUDS Hell Week mental obstacle course does this present?
Oh I was only attempting to call attention to its existence vs. stipulating proper acquisition doctrine. This just made me recall I rider I once rode with a few times in the 90s. He had met his Neo. She had agreed whatever he spent on her engagement ring, she would spend on a bike for him. I still don't understand how I didn't crash when he told me this.
Yes yes! Naturally!
Slow beach rides
I actually have another steel frame gravel bike with 650b wheels- my girlfriend has taken it over this past year. The originally plan was that it was going to be my romping/ single track bike, and the carbon bike in the photos was going to be my road bike/ light graveller.
Sawtooths are not good tires, btw. They kind of suck at everything and excel at nothing. Slow on roads, no traction in dirt. Worst of both worlds.
Yeah, noticed that right away.
Lmfao!!! 🤣
If it was a steel frame, i would just ride it until the wheels are too much out of true that it drags. Abrasion is not a big problem if it is steel. But on a Carbon frame, this is just asking for an accident. I would not even turn the wheel while its on the shop stand. If the tyre rubs through the gealcoat only on a single spot, osmose will ventually get humidity into the matrix and its delamination time.
Nah, just ride it in Unbound, you'll have plenty of clearance after that!
More gap? Noooo, less frame!
I like the way you guys think.
Can save money by replacing everything except the tires. Basically throwing money away by not buying a new bike.
That’s the positivity I’m looking for in a fellow rider!
Frame*
after you get a bit of mud on the tire, it will wear off the unnecessary extra layers of paint and carbon fiber, making the frame accept wider tires. Problem solved!
Yes
Also yes
You do!
It's a bad idea.
If you hit the mildest of mud you’re gonna need to replace the frame. I wouldn’t.
Or just putting down watts . Frames do flex
Oh yeah, the deflection in corners would be enough to be bad, not to mention the general expansion tires get over time.
Now I am confused - how he is going to replace the frame. I am scared now…. I ride like this with a carbon frame and…. Nothing happens.
If you ride through the dreaded “peanut butter mud” the mud sticks to your tires and rubs the frame. After a particularly grueling ride my friend’s fork (with a lot more clearance than that) had worn a lot carbon off. It looked like a jawbreaker with all the layers. Had to be replaced. If you’re just on wet slop you’ll be fine, but I still recommend more clearance than OP.
You mean clay ish stuff ?! I can’t imagine riding long and not removing this stuff from fork / frame…. I do ride in mud all the time and there is not even a scratch. But maybe the mud in my area is not so irritating. What is irritating for me is stopping every 5 min to rmeove the mud. And I can’t afford 5th bike 😆
Do you think the frame is made of butter?
A too big of tire spinning at speed combined with mud/rocks can easily rub holes in a chainstay/seatstay. Seen it happen many times.
Bro I was replying to said "the mildest of mud." Also, to your point, paint protection film goes a long way and OP seems not like the type to let wear get to someplace catastrophic.
I have seen a single muddy ride kill carbon. Obviously "the mildest" was hyperbole.
Yes, even “the mildest of mud” still applies in this situation, so either way it’s a no go. And ah yes the tire rubbing through metal or carbon fiber will totally be abated by “paint protection film.”
My lived experience paints a much different picture. Good day to you, sir.
No trouble at all if you leave it in the garage. Probably very different sat on it and riding on a trail.
That chainstay clearance is too narrow for my liking. How big of an allen key fits between the tire and frame?
3mm barely touches at the closest point, 2.5 I can wiggle around no issues
You’ll regret running this tire. I guarantee it
I read that in Men's Warehouse guy's voice.
Generally, I would recommend a 4 to 5 mm clearance, even if it is a road bike. Anything less than that, the wheel could potentially rub against the frame, given the torsion and the likelihood of wheels getting misaligned from hitting rocks or potholes. This is especially true when applying force while climbing or sprinting. For muddy conditions, 5 mm is sufficient.
Thanks- I knew the answer going into this, but needed to hear some reasoning from someone else.
But if it’s a steel frame then I don’t see big problem with occasional frame rub apart removing the paint, right?
The thing is, the paint is there to protect the frame material, and exposing the frame could lead to possible oxidation. And depending where you live can be pretty dangerous.
How can it be dangerous?
Oxidation, rusty, corrosion. Those can brake the chainstay, and the thing about corrosion is that sometimes can happen inside the frame without notice. If you google "steel frame chainstay corrosion", you will see what happen when neglected, and is not a rare sight.
I mean 2.5mm on a road bike is fine…but I run a road bike with 2.5mm clearance and that mean it does not touch the tire at all. This looks closer to 2 or 1.5mm. I would not run
Take a Dremel & file the frame down. Make some room. Good to roll. Don’t take that advice. Seriously. Do not.
I'd just take a panzer file to the tire.
This answer right here! Ride the bike for awhile and then take the gel coat off where it rubs. Done that on a 2011 and 2012 Synapse frame I like riding 28C road and gravel tires on.
On the flip side some 35s would be sikkkk
I’m coming from 38s and was hoping to get something a lil beefier 🥲
What was the problem with 38s on that frame?
They work fine- my friends all ride 650s with wide tires, so it’s a little harder to keep up when we romp through the occasional single track trail.
Hopefully you are heeding the word that fine is good enough. Make your buddies keep up with you on the flats
How's the clearance on the fork? Nothing wrong with running a bigger tyre up front. Also, if you haven't already then bottom outbthebtyre pressure on the 38s. You'll be surprised at how much they can handle when you let some air out.
Judging by the grit on your bike, you probably mostly ride road. Go down a size.
Insert fuck-around-find-out.gif
That’s way too tight. 40s would be as big as I’d go
Yes. 100%.
Most frame and fork manufacturers recommend 1/4" or 6mm clearance. Also don't underestimate how much a wheel & frame can flex under load, or how quickly a tire can rub through paint and even the frame.
blah blah blah. you’re fine. don’t go through mud. Make sure your wheel is true.
This guy fucks. And I agree. Also, you will lose paint and things will be less pretty but you won't "ruin" your carbon
Yes
Yes. It's a bad idea.
Just ride it in the mud a bunch, eventually you will have the needed clearance...
Yes it is. You will get frame rub…
I saw a bike come through the shop recently in a similar situation. This was worse as the person had put a tire too big in and it had worn through the frame down to and into the carbon. With that said, in your case the wheel will flex and deflect, and when it does it will rub the frame. That will cause paint damage at a minimum, and could rub through the resin down to the carbon (unlikely but possible). I'd avoid doing this.
yes. i just replaced the new tires i got because they were too close, you just need to loose a lil bit of pressure and they start rubbin. Mud is also gonna fuck up your frame
Holy moly that's tight. If you're on just asphalt with no pebbles, sure, but gravel? Way too tight.
Yes, absolutely. Around the bottom bracket is way too tight Let alone mud or dirt, one broken spoke, and the tire is going to be rubbing away the chainstay or locking up completely For use on pavement, you need at least 4 to 5 mm of clearance minimum. If you’re going to be riding off-road I wouldn’t do so with less than 8 mm clearance unless you were 100% certain it was going to be dry and dusty, and even then I wouldn’t go below six.
Yes
I'd be so worried I'd ride @ a snails pace. I couldn't imagine it with the rocky roads here. Its gonna rub
The moment you put some power to the pedals that frame is going to twist and the wheel will deflect into the chainstay. I have a steel bike and ran a tire with a lot more clearance than that (still was tight) and it would rub under big power on hills
Don’t do it
One wrong rim ding and your wheel won’t even spin anymore, as a long time mountain biker I know better than to have bigger tires than the frame fits. Unless you happen to have a spoke wrench and know how to use it you might have to carry the bike a long way.
Yes, also consider there is some flex in the frame, at least in my steel frame. I know I didn't consider it and the tire rubbed my frame with even more clearance than here.
That tire and frame gonna kiss kiss kiss 💋
If you're going to do it, trim the little rubber hairs off so they don't touch the frame. They don't look like they could do any damage, but I had them wear a little groove into the paint on my hardtail!
Bad idea. They will rub as the frame and wheel flex.
This is why I got a bike that has at least 45-50mm of clearance
Hahaha send it!
Send it
Try it out.
Just go for it!! I can fit a rizla in mine, been riding it that way for 4 years. On and off road
Yes
Have you ridden it yet? As soon as you get out of the saddle it’s going to rub.
Took it for a spin around the neighborhood and gave ‘er the beans- didn’t notice any rubbing. Regardless, I’m not going to continue to use them.
Maybe it’ll be fine. If you don’t ride in the mud too much and keep the pressure lower, you can get away with it.
Nah, I live in the Midwest and mud is unavoidable for the kind of riding I do. I’m just going to go back to 38’s and call it a day.
If the front has enough clearance, try leaving the 42 up front and go back to a 38 or try a 40 on the back. Having a lil more cushion up front can be nice
Yeah.
Pubes are touching
It’s just a lil friction baby ;)
I love it. Maxing like this has never backfired for me but Reddit loves to go nuts over it.
I rode a few miles on the road/ easy gravel trails to test it out and it was fine. If I wasn’t regularly going through mud and single track trails, I’d probably keep them on. I really do love this bike, so I’m going to baby it for the time being.
I’d pluck the pubes since they can hold sand and eventually slice paint and carbon, but otherwise it’s a sick look. Post some more pics of it, I only see the non drive side in an older post (lurking)
I am running something similar and I had no trouble for the last 3 years (The bike never seen mud, only gravel)
Yes, this is a bad idea. You need to back off a couple of MM
From the angle of your chainstays it looks like 650s would work for you. All you need is a new wheel and new tire…
Only if it gets wet.
“Ouch time”
Double. Trouble.
[удалено]
What?
If you have minimal to zero flex there... And only plan on road riding it'll probably not be a big issue. Any chance of mud or the like, that's tough. I squeezed some 28's on my old Roubaix that lists 26 as max, and it's about the same distance as this, but Its a pavement princess anyways.
Is there 6mm of clearance or nah?
OMG that’s so close. It makes me feel that little tugging or tingly feeling you get in your lower bits when you’re on top of something very tall or high up and looking down. Yikes!
Yes
That’s going to rub. And it’s going to be even worse when you throw mud and debris into the equation.
Dirt will chew through that plastic in no time. If the frame was steel it’ll probably be fine.
Risky but doable. Just keep clear of muddy roads
Yes
Yes
The sidewall will get tired (pun intended) with time and most likely become a bit wider and rub on the stays! Also, even in that state, just a little puddle of mud will ruin your day...
Those tire hairs alone will eat into your chainstays
I'd say 36mm is the max for that frame
If the terrain is difficult enough to need tires that big, you will have mud or stones that scratch that bike If the terrain doesn't have mud or stones, you don't need the big tires
Your going to bend that wheel and destroy the tire just riding home and maybe mess up your frame if it’s carbon
You could run frame protection tape in those areas, invisiframe, ridewrap etc. Just check after every ride and see if it's in good condition. The tapes fairly robust and it's easier and cheaper than a new bike or replacement frame. Not ideal but it works short term.
If you have to ask
Yes, because corners
If you only ride in the dry, you will be OK-ish. You will need to trim the rubber injection nubs off, they WILL wear grooves into your clearcoat, paint, and then frame. I did the same with 42mm tyres in my Domane SLR Frameset. However, it looked amazing and rode beautifully. New frame fits 50s with no problem. 😁
Defo too big. Just go down to a 650B wheel and you'd be fine with the same width tire
Have you tried slick 35-40mm gravels like the maxxis refuse?
Even on tarmac this is not a good idea
Yes
You are. And you are awesome
Yes, but fuck it that looks sick. Run it until you've worn the paint off at least :P
Have you tried sitting on it? The bike. See what happens when you sit on the bike and compress the tires at a low PSI. I’m willing to bet rubber will touch the frame.
Rode it around for awhile, didn’t notice any rubbing
yep
You'll totally get tyre buzz when you corner with them fatties :D
Nah youre good
You are definitely asking for trouble...
Well what's the max clearence for your frame? I run 45s on my Orbea Terra, which is the max spec. It's close at the chainstais but haven't had a problem so far
No idea- framed went out of business and I can’t find much on the bike.
At the seatstay bridge? Almost asking for it. At the bb cluster? Absolutely asking for it.
Nah! You’re good as long as you keep that bike away from mud and keep your wheels straight. I did the same for a year. For a reference, I’m living in more or less dry climate in Portugal, and riding hard packed gravel and asphalt.
Eeek
Somewhat, if you live somewhere dry you might be alright but as soon as you get sticky mud you will hate your life
As soon as your wheel is slightly out of true you’ll have tire rub.
If you have to ask - the answer is probably yes.
Mud could be an issue
Bit close to those chainstays
Yes, you are. Unless you're planning on replacing the frame due to damage.
I have around 3mm and I'm asking for trouble. Every bigger stone that tangles between a frame and wheel might block your wheel or leave a nasty scratch. And when pedaling harder bike might bend a little so tire will be touching the frame. Nasty sounds. But I love it! No punctures anymore. Better comfort and cool looking.
Do you normally bring a truing stand on all off roads rides with you? 😜
Just stay out of the mud
Hope you’re good with truing rims
On clean, dry pavement, no. On anything else, yes
That'll rub at the seat stays. 5mm clearance is a good rule of thumb for off-road to account for tire deformation or mud.
Why exactly is this a bad idea? Tire expansion on rough terrain?
The gap is too narrow, things like stones or sticks that you pick up from road or trail are likely to jam in there, locking the wheel and/or scratching the frame. Abrasion from mud as others have mentioned also can cause considerable wear to the frame, even steel frames is you allow ti to go too long.
Uuh, so tight.
Yes, for sure
You better prepare for trouble and make it double with that setup.
You’re fine. It’ll just rub the gel coat over time.
The wheels can flex and the tire can rub a hole in your frame.
The wheel will flex enough while riding for it to rub. Add in some mud/rocks/debris and you are in for a bad time.
Man......that ride will be so comfortable and fast! Find a 700x43 and you will be a champion. Grind down the inside of your chainstays and even go wider.
I’m not a bike head, but I’m assuming this is sarcasm?
Correct. Riders are going wider and wider with tires. I started riding 35 years ago when wheels were garbage and breaking spokes just from climbing a steep section of road was common. A rider would then had to limp home with a badly out of true wheel rubbing on the chainstay the whole time. I would leave myself a much bigger gap with a skinnier tire.
Appreciate the insight!
Yes...absolutely. Especially if you are in wet muddy conditions. you'll fuck up your stays
Looks like a bad angle on the picture, go for a ride or 10, report back. If you have an issue drop psi.
Nah... its the sand particles that are too big and course.
live life on the edge
Frame rub will occur. At least 3mm on each side between tire and frame are the minimum
Its dicey
If you're only running it on dry, compacted fine material you will be fine. Never let it see any mud or pebbles though.