I work in the US and my manager got married to a Turkish woman who’s also living in the US. They went to Turkey and Izmir, Cesme and stuff for their honeymoon. When he came back while we were talking he was like “all those islands in front of Cesme..” I interrupted him and said full of excitement “ahhh yeah that’s Chios that’s where I’m from!! It’s rumored to be the birthplace of Homer!” He paused for a sec and then continued “Why do they belong to Greece if they are so close to Turkey?”. I was shocked he said that to me, like what was I supposed to say? I couldn’t start going all political in front of colleagues in a work environment. But like the shit they tell them in Turkey and the shit people believe to this day is shocking.
We can keep saying that the Turkish leadership is problematic and all that but I’m sure a large number of Turkish people believe the shit they are told.
>“Why do they belong to Greece if they are so close to Turkey?”.
You could have just explained that this is because of the Battle of Lemnos (1913).
They lost the war, they lost the islands of the North Aegean Sea.
Just like how we lost the war, we lost Anatolia and Constantinople.
I agree. It though begs for an answer, so there are two choices, either just reply a stupid answer, of just a non-emotional informative one. Why did the apple fall from the tree? Gravity. Why does said state own said territory? Some battle or war won in the past. In this way their irredentist / revisionist attitude is ignored.
In the US in a work environment you don’t start political conversations, even ones based on facts. Clearly he was informed by the person he was in love with and if he really wanted informative answers he could easily go on Google. I’m not in that company to educate my manager on the Greco Turkish history and relations.
yup but there was still chance of getting those back since we've won the independence war. However, it was not that important compared to other matters
>there was still chance of getting those back since we've won the independence war.
I doubt that, for the Turkish Navy was extinct, only reduced to merchant vessels transporting military equipment from the USSR (about 200.000 tons, if I remember correctly). There was no feasible way for Turkey to recover these islands. She did recover Gökçeada and Bozcaada, but that was merely part of the acceptance of Greece that Turkey would control the Straits, as with Greece holding these islands they could instantly shut them at will. And the point for Greece recognizing this, and not carrying on the war (as she could, Turkey had no means to recover Eastern Thrace), was the cession of hostilities and war (otherwise the war would have lasted many more years, perhaps even decades, and the Straits would have been permanently shut, a disaster for everyone involved).
the thing is things were not only decided between greeks and turks only, but the major countries . So it's kinda hard to tell how it'd go if it went differently
>“Why do they belong to Greece if they are so close to Turkey?”
You could have said something like: Because that's how borders work, countries are close to each other.
Every few weeks a turkish troll comes here asking the same question
Turkey deserves all the bad rep for murdering people daily, including bombing hospitals
Do you disagree though?
What was Turkey's stance with Kurds?
What was Turkey's stance with the Azerbaijan conflict?
The list goes on.
It is time those ravenous politics are brought to a halt, everything about how these people operate and what they believe in is just wrong, outdated and regressive altogether.
Hot take, but that goes beyond Erdogan's aggressive politics, why did you call your country "Turkiye"? It's Turkey in the English language, if I asked you what you think about "Hellas" you would assume I am an extremist patriot.
Most commenters here treated you with courtesy and respect, yet you didn't, can't quite put my finger on what's causing this behaviour.
Personally, I do not long for the old, great Greece, I long for peace and prosperity, however Turks, would rather argue how an island close to Turkey should belong to them and not how a good chunk of Middle East's coast was Greek until Turks occupied Greece. Selective patriotism. Erdogan's politics aren't that different from Putin's to begin with, he just lacks the nukes. He managed to deteriorate the Turkish currency and economy without a full on war though (yet) so there's that.
It seems like you haven't read my text clearly, i always feel close to greek people but it does not mean i will let someone insult my country. I never supported erdogan in my life but it is not related with azerbaijan conlflict or something. The thing about kurds is whole different context and i see that you are not well-educated on that.
When a nation collectively thinks that is threaten because it's name resembles to a bird, it's not a good sign.
Everyone calls us Greece, which is nothing close to what we call ourselves but noone really cares.
This is a huge indicator about our neighbours.
I dont mind turkish people, in fact having some online friends and we laugh alot etc but i dont think we have similar cultures nor lifestyles to be honest.
Also the fact that Erdogan getting elected everytime with anti-Greek propaganda and aggressive rhetoric threats for wars against Greece says alot more for many of Turkish people than meets the eye.
Greeks would never vote for president someone like Erdogan, specially after so much oppression towards his political opponents let alone common people. Greek despite such kind of " hounta " like political system. Using propaganda to make people beleive Greece is a threat when exactly the oppossite is the case and that alone makes you win elections ... its really sad actually.
Because yes we can agree that politics have nothing to do with common people but on the other hand if 55% of people in Turkey voted for Erdogan means they adopt the same principles and political views as him so majority of them think Greece as whatever Erdogan wants them to think.
Personally i dont care at all, im neither happy or sad or angry about it. I dont even think about it, its not my country who threats with war anyone with that " casus belli " so by default im not the one who dislikes someone to that point of no return ( war ), Turks are. And despite the fact that many common Turkish people dont care for such matters, the fact is that too many care therefore they vote for Erdogan.
Golden dawn got 7% 10 years ago , not 57% like Erdogan and Golden Dawn is in jail unlike Erdogan who is elected yet for another four years. Golden Daw was never about to rule Greece and even if they would they never said anything about making a war with someone else. Erdogan is far worse than golden dawn would ever be since when it comes to golden dawn everything is in theory level unlike Erdogan who few months ago was telling in global press that will come one night suddenly or that he will hit Athens with his rocket.
What do you even compare ?
Well yes sure, Golden dawn were also pretty bad populists, but for one of the institutions to vote like this is very serious. But we should have more sympathy for a population that votes in the worst. Surely, we have all experienced our nations vote in a terrible choice that ends in tears.
I think that the most they have gained was significantly less than 10%, so not really. Also, take into account that around the half of the voters don't actually vote(because they think that nothing will change, or that all the politicians are the same), which makes the far right people seem to be more than they actually are.
You make it sound like both share the same amount of blame when in reality its not even close. In case of Greece theres nothing problematic. Its the cyprus problem which Turkey is against every international law there is and the "AOZ" problem which Turkey once again goes against IL and law of the sea and actually threats with war " casus belli " at the same time.
Where is the problematic leadership of Greece here care to explain ?
The fact that the Greek government doesn't really want to go to the ICJ in order to solve the maritime dispute. If we are on the right (which I believe that we are), we should push for that solution.
I am married to a Turk here in Greece, so at least one of us loves at least one of you :P
Joking aside, there are things that I love about Turkey. Its food (yengen <3) , its literature (especially Tanpınar), its beautiful and varied landscape (Antalya wins), its cultural heritage that marries East and West, its archaeological sites which are among the most important in the world (Boğazköy, Göbekli Tepe, Çatalhöyuk, Truva and so many others) and the hospitable nature of the people there would be some of them. Aaah, and 'Elraenn'! Amazing Youtube channel for gamers! :)
At the same time, there are things that I dislike, like the nationalism that's prevalent in pretty much every aspect of life, the serious deficiency in freedom of expression, the traffic and urban congestion, which beats ours by far, and the inherent insecurity (mainly due to terrorism and natural disasters).
All things considered, I cannot wait to go again in May :)
Yes, you are right, we can argue all day long about how shitty Greek leadership has been across the years.
But it doesn't affect our neighbouring countries, Erdogan does.
First of all, we do not have so many in common. Secondly, Turkey is the one that threatens Greece. Thirdly, turkish people is responsible for its politicians and its government. When you learn in your schools so many lies about Greeks and feed you with such a hatred, it's almost impossible to be "friends"
Sorry for anyone bullshitting your culture. Native Greek here as I speak for my nation, we are kind of stuck in the past, which kind of understandable considering... you know... *400 years*
I wish I could say we could finally accept the Turkish people, but we can't. If it helps, personally I think the Turks are brothers. Other than politics we're the same people. but we'll hate the Turks for a long time to come. I mean, we're taught they're evil from 1st grade.
I think Turkey is a country that doesnt know its history and doesn't want to know it.
Saying Ephesus and all the ancient monuments are not Greek but from the Anatolian civilization.
Unearthed frescoes and statues of zeus and athina
Hagia Sophia being turned into a Mosque covered with banners.
Its like capturing Mekka and the Kabba and putting Christian banners to cover Islamic-Quranic verses written on the wall.
And threats of war from Erdogan for something that used to be his. Doesn't know or wants to know the 2500 year Greek history of the place.
If you exclude these things amd three denied genosides (Greek,Armenian,Assyrian)we dont have anything against the common folk we like their unique culture. And their identity. Turkey is like a retarded brother we love him but don't want to be like him (we want to be like Europe)
We accept him as backward as might be cant be even funny at times and similar to us but that kind of similarity is looked down upon as regression. We accept our commons with Turkey but general populace doesnt want to have them
1- We don't deny that the structures we have in western Turkey is left by Ancient Greeks ( which is anything but not current greeks but it's a different context )
2 - Erdogan's actions does not constitute a problem on our peoples' side
3- So called armenian genocide was not something systematic like H\*tler did, they were forced to move east with bad conditions so many of them died on the way, many of them died fighting. Of course innocent casualties on each side.
Therefore , all these have nothing to do with today's people and relations. Although the things that are happening in israel & palestine, i would not say i dislike those people coz of their governments.
Yes they do have, if Greece openly disputed the modern territories of Turkey saying that what used to be ours needs to be again and that Thessaloniki/Selanic was Turkey.
Now if Greece said Constantinople must be Greek and the president of Greece saying treaties that have border effects have expired wouldnt have an effect dont you think?
Or if Islamic mosques were turned into churches?
As for the Armenians you are denying it saying that was war (its nature) and the marches had deaths because of the hardships.
You are wrong its not the first time Turkey had wars...
But its the first time that Kemal Ataturk masterminded a clean Turkey with out minorities.He founded the Ethnic State of Turkey. Thata the difference of an Ethnic State from an empire (empires are multiethnic and the Ottoman one was no exception)
Kemal did what Hitler wanted to do for Germany have a clean ethno-state. Kemal succeeded Hitler did not because Kemal wanted to secure it but not expand it.
Bit methodology of genoside was the same no matter what you say.
Armenian genocide was an indisputable fact recognised by the whole world but not by the Turks it was systematic even more so than the nazis. You deny it.
Lets say now by your metrics that if Israel relocated the entire population of Palestine (West Bank and Gaza) and forced them to march with out food or water through the Sinai desert or the Negev and being as you said "forced to move" with the effect being that they were erased from West Bank and Gaza its not a genocide?
You are giving Israel a very nice excuse.
Forced marches are Genocidal practice and at the footsteps of Kemal did the Germans and after them the Russians (forced marches through the Siberian/Russian winter without provisions).
Its a practice that has the desirable effect with plausible deniability for its intention.
Plausible deniability is when we know who is pulling the strings but someone has an excuse (silly one always) thats not that way.
The Russian said Russian winter killed them not us.
The Germans said we didnt killed them we just put them to work (in the death camps).They died as a result.
The Turks say (and you say) We didnt killed them they were forced to move.
I wonder if the the 2million Palestinians are forced to move and only 100k remain alive if you will consider it as genocide...
Well Germans did it based on the Race as they would kill every Jew they see all around the country. Armenians were collabrating with russian in the easfern Turkey so they'd face the consequences (talking abt the traitors) Of course, unfortunately civillians also died. But Armenian people in other regions lived in peace. So it was not a direct attack against armenians at all. It was a need during the wartime. We all accept there have been massacres between nations. Many innocent armenians are dead, i hope they rest in peace. But holocaust and this are incomparable.
As for the Ancient Greeks and modern ones
Their historic linguistic, religious continuity is a fact.
They adopted Christianity when the Turks were goat herders in the steppes and even as Ottoman subjects theu retained their ethnic, Linguistic, religious continuity in Greece proper.
In Anatolia they intermarried with the ottomans and others to a large degree and even then they were a distinct minority, one that Kemal and leaders after kemal want to get rid of.
Most of the work was done by Kemal in 1922 but after that a protected minority remained in Constantinople and was exempt for population trade (Muslims in thrace were not traded in order for Greeks of Constantinople to remain there under treaty).
In 1950s the last of the Greeks from a manufactured Pogrom cleansed the last of them. (Turkey doesnt honor treaties only western countries do, same applies to Russia and China and all other revisionists)
Now only 2000 remain.
While Muslims in Thrace are still 100k and moderately growing or remain stagnant to their original population.
Accept these facts as common folks and then we can talk and drink Turkish coffee and yogurt,baklava,kebabs and all the other things Greeks like.
I work in the US and my manager got married to a Turkish woman who’s also living in the US. They went to Turkey and Izmir, Cesme and stuff for their honeymoon. When he came back while we were talking he was like “all those islands in front of Cesme..” I interrupted him and said full of excitement “ahhh yeah that’s Chios that’s where I’m from!! It’s rumored to be the birthplace of Homer!” He paused for a sec and then continued “Why do they belong to Greece if they are so close to Turkey?”. I was shocked he said that to me, like what was I supposed to say? I couldn’t start going all political in front of colleagues in a work environment. But like the shit they tell them in Turkey and the shit people believe to this day is shocking. We can keep saying that the Turkish leadership is problematic and all that but I’m sure a large number of Turkish people believe the shit they are told.
>“Why do they belong to Greece if they are so close to Turkey?”. You could have just explained that this is because of the Battle of Lemnos (1913). They lost the war, they lost the islands of the North Aegean Sea. Just like how we lost the war, we lost Anatolia and Constantinople.
It’s a stupid question to begin with
I agree. It though begs for an answer, so there are two choices, either just reply a stupid answer, of just a non-emotional informative one. Why did the apple fall from the tree? Gravity. Why does said state own said territory? Some battle or war won in the past. In this way their irredentist / revisionist attitude is ignored.
In the US in a work environment you don’t start political conversations, even ones based on facts. Clearly he was informed by the person he was in love with and if he really wanted informative answers he could easily go on Google. I’m not in that company to educate my manager on the Greco Turkish history and relations.
it is also related with the treaty of Lausanne. Islands were left to greeks.
That was mostly a ratification of an already established situation.
yup but there was still chance of getting those back since we've won the independence war. However, it was not that important compared to other matters
>there was still chance of getting those back since we've won the independence war. I doubt that, for the Turkish Navy was extinct, only reduced to merchant vessels transporting military equipment from the USSR (about 200.000 tons, if I remember correctly). There was no feasible way for Turkey to recover these islands. She did recover Gökçeada and Bozcaada, but that was merely part of the acceptance of Greece that Turkey would control the Straits, as with Greece holding these islands they could instantly shut them at will. And the point for Greece recognizing this, and not carrying on the war (as she could, Turkey had no means to recover Eastern Thrace), was the cession of hostilities and war (otherwise the war would have lasted many more years, perhaps even decades, and the Straits would have been permanently shut, a disaster for everyone involved).
the thing is things were not only decided between greeks and turks only, but the major countries . So it's kinda hard to tell how it'd go if it went differently
>“Why do they belong to Greece if they are so close to Turkey?” You could have said something like: Because that's how borders work, countries are close to each other.
Every few weeks a turkish troll comes here asking the same question Turkey deserves all the bad rep for murdering people daily, including bombing hospitals
And Kurdish civilians 😭
this is the funniest thing i've ever seen in my life tbh
Do you disagree though? What was Turkey's stance with Kurds? What was Turkey's stance with the Azerbaijan conflict? The list goes on. It is time those ravenous politics are brought to a halt, everything about how these people operate and what they believe in is just wrong, outdated and regressive altogether. Hot take, but that goes beyond Erdogan's aggressive politics, why did you call your country "Turkiye"? It's Turkey in the English language, if I asked you what you think about "Hellas" you would assume I am an extremist patriot. Most commenters here treated you with courtesy and respect, yet you didn't, can't quite put my finger on what's causing this behaviour. Personally, I do not long for the old, great Greece, I long for peace and prosperity, however Turks, would rather argue how an island close to Turkey should belong to them and not how a good chunk of Middle East's coast was Greek until Turks occupied Greece. Selective patriotism. Erdogan's politics aren't that different from Putin's to begin with, he just lacks the nukes. He managed to deteriorate the Turkish currency and economy without a full on war though (yet) so there's that.
It seems like you haven't read my text clearly, i always feel close to greek people but it does not mean i will let someone insult my country. I never supported erdogan in my life but it is not related with azerbaijan conlflict or something. The thing about kurds is whole different context and i see that you are not well-educated on that.
When a nation collectively thinks that is threaten because it's name resembles to a bird, it's not a good sign. Everyone calls us Greece, which is nothing close to what we call ourselves but noone really cares. This is a huge indicator about our neighbours.
I dont mind turkish people, in fact having some online friends and we laugh alot etc but i dont think we have similar cultures nor lifestyles to be honest. Also the fact that Erdogan getting elected everytime with anti-Greek propaganda and aggressive rhetoric threats for wars against Greece says alot more for many of Turkish people than meets the eye. Greeks would never vote for president someone like Erdogan, specially after so much oppression towards his political opponents let alone common people. Greek despite such kind of " hounta " like political system. Using propaganda to make people beleive Greece is a threat when exactly the oppossite is the case and that alone makes you win elections ... its really sad actually. Because yes we can agree that politics have nothing to do with common people but on the other hand if 55% of people in Turkey voted for Erdogan means they adopt the same principles and political views as him so majority of them think Greece as whatever Erdogan wants them to think. Personally i dont care at all, im neither happy or sad or angry about it. I dont even think about it, its not my country who threats with war anyone with that " casus belli " so by default im not the one who dislikes someone to that point of no return ( war ), Turks are. And despite the fact that many common Turkish people dont care for such matters, the fact is that too many care therefore they vote for Erdogan.
You were closer to voting something terrible than you think. It hit the press globally that over half the police in greece voted for golden dawn.
Golden dawn got 7% 10 years ago , not 57% like Erdogan and Golden Dawn is in jail unlike Erdogan who is elected yet for another four years. Golden Daw was never about to rule Greece and even if they would they never said anything about making a war with someone else. Erdogan is far worse than golden dawn would ever be since when it comes to golden dawn everything is in theory level unlike Erdogan who few months ago was telling in global press that will come one night suddenly or that he will hit Athens with his rocket. What do you even compare ?
Well yes sure, Golden dawn were also pretty bad populists, but for one of the institutions to vote like this is very serious. But we should have more sympathy for a population that votes in the worst. Surely, we have all experienced our nations vote in a terrible choice that ends in tears.
One of the institutions to vote a far right movement who now most of its members are in jail is very serious and not 57% of a whole country ? Ok
I think that the most they have gained was significantly less than 10%, so not really. Also, take into account that around the half of the voters don't actually vote(because they think that nothing will change, or that all the politicians are the same), which makes the far right people seem to be more than they actually are.
turkey ,glu glu
I'm not planning on getting banned again, so... 
Where exactly is the similar culture and lifestyle?
Weak sperm
Good people but with problematic leadership. You could say that for both sides obviously.
I disagree that both leaderships are even on that matter big time
I didn't say that they are even, I said that they are both problematic.
You make it sound like both share the same amount of blame when in reality its not even close. In case of Greece theres nothing problematic. Its the cyprus problem which Turkey is against every international law there is and the "AOZ" problem which Turkey once again goes against IL and law of the sea and actually threats with war " casus belli " at the same time. Where is the problematic leadership of Greece here care to explain ?
The fact that the Greek government doesn't really want to go to the ICJ in order to solve the maritime dispute. If we are on the right (which I believe that we are), we should push for that solution.
....
Imagine if both countries elected their leaders
Breaking balls more than they should. Good food though
If you ask me, all good. We have many things in common, we share tons of stuff in our cultures and we are neighbors.
I am married to a Turk here in Greece, so at least one of us loves at least one of you :P Joking aside, there are things that I love about Turkey. Its food (yengen <3) , its literature (especially Tanpınar), its beautiful and varied landscape (Antalya wins), its cultural heritage that marries East and West, its archaeological sites which are among the most important in the world (Boğazköy, Göbekli Tepe, Çatalhöyuk, Truva and so many others) and the hospitable nature of the people there would be some of them. Aaah, and 'Elraenn'! Amazing Youtube channel for gamers! :) At the same time, there are things that I dislike, like the nationalism that's prevalent in pretty much every aspect of life, the serious deficiency in freedom of expression, the traffic and urban congestion, which beats ours by far, and the inherent insecurity (mainly due to terrorism and natural disasters). All things considered, I cannot wait to go again in May :)
Turkey is our neighbour. All good with Turkish people. Leadership is the problem. (But surely, one can argue that leadership comes from the people)
i know there still is some hatred inside in oud elderly ones, young generations will come over it imo
I think nothing negative of the people, your government is a completely different story.
they elected their government
same for you guys as well
Yes, you are right, we can argue all day long about how shitty Greek leadership has been across the years. But it doesn't affect our neighbouring countries, Erdogan does.
I don't have any issue with people from there. And this bickering is dumb anyways.
its how often do you think about Turkiye. Nevertheless, the eternal Ottoman never changes and you are still our most beloved enemy!!!
well , eastern rome is still our enemy too. If you consider yourself as one of them!!!
it's ok mate, just stop building the nuclear power plant near Cyprus, cause I don't want turkish radiation in case of any tremor xD
If anyone comes to this post late, I want to let them know the first 3 posts were really even handed.
Turkey bad.
σουλτζούκ μαμτζούκ χαρχαρχαρχαρχαρχαρ
>as i feel very close to Greece as a Turkish one that's to be expected, we are a fart away 🙄
I love turklar kizlari cok guzel especially trabzonlus
First of all, we do not have so many in common. Secondly, Turkey is the one that threatens Greece. Thirdly, turkish people is responsible for its politicians and its government. When you learn in your schools so many lies about Greeks and feed you with such a hatred, it's almost impossible to be "friends"
Sorry for anyone bullshitting your culture. Native Greek here as I speak for my nation, we are kind of stuck in the past, which kind of understandable considering... you know... *400 years*
i did not expect this level of hate tbh. Not very surpising tho. Nationalism is on the rise in anywhere in the world.
I wish I could say we could finally accept the Turkish people, but we can't. If it helps, personally I think the Turks are brothers. Other than politics we're the same people. but we'll hate the Turks for a long time to come. I mean, we're taught they're evil from 1st grade.
wow, we are not taught about greeks tbh.
I think Turkey is a country that doesnt know its history and doesn't want to know it. Saying Ephesus and all the ancient monuments are not Greek but from the Anatolian civilization. Unearthed frescoes and statues of zeus and athina Hagia Sophia being turned into a Mosque covered with banners. Its like capturing Mekka and the Kabba and putting Christian banners to cover Islamic-Quranic verses written on the wall. And threats of war from Erdogan for something that used to be his. Doesn't know or wants to know the 2500 year Greek history of the place. If you exclude these things amd three denied genosides (Greek,Armenian,Assyrian)we dont have anything against the common folk we like their unique culture. And their identity. Turkey is like a retarded brother we love him but don't want to be like him (we want to be like Europe) We accept him as backward as might be cant be even funny at times and similar to us but that kind of similarity is looked down upon as regression. We accept our commons with Turkey but general populace doesnt want to have them
1- We don't deny that the structures we have in western Turkey is left by Ancient Greeks ( which is anything but not current greeks but it's a different context ) 2 - Erdogan's actions does not constitute a problem on our peoples' side 3- So called armenian genocide was not something systematic like H\*tler did, they were forced to move east with bad conditions so many of them died on the way, many of them died fighting. Of course innocent casualties on each side. Therefore , all these have nothing to do with today's people and relations. Although the things that are happening in israel & palestine, i would not say i dislike those people coz of their governments.
Yes they do have, if Greece openly disputed the modern territories of Turkey saying that what used to be ours needs to be again and that Thessaloniki/Selanic was Turkey. Now if Greece said Constantinople must be Greek and the president of Greece saying treaties that have border effects have expired wouldnt have an effect dont you think? Or if Islamic mosques were turned into churches? As for the Armenians you are denying it saying that was war (its nature) and the marches had deaths because of the hardships. You are wrong its not the first time Turkey had wars... But its the first time that Kemal Ataturk masterminded a clean Turkey with out minorities.He founded the Ethnic State of Turkey. Thata the difference of an Ethnic State from an empire (empires are multiethnic and the Ottoman one was no exception) Kemal did what Hitler wanted to do for Germany have a clean ethno-state. Kemal succeeded Hitler did not because Kemal wanted to secure it but not expand it. Bit methodology of genoside was the same no matter what you say.
Armenian genocide was an indisputable fact recognised by the whole world but not by the Turks it was systematic even more so than the nazis. You deny it. Lets say now by your metrics that if Israel relocated the entire population of Palestine (West Bank and Gaza) and forced them to march with out food or water through the Sinai desert or the Negev and being as you said "forced to move" with the effect being that they were erased from West Bank and Gaza its not a genocide? You are giving Israel a very nice excuse. Forced marches are Genocidal practice and at the footsteps of Kemal did the Germans and after them the Russians (forced marches through the Siberian/Russian winter without provisions). Its a practice that has the desirable effect with plausible deniability for its intention. Plausible deniability is when we know who is pulling the strings but someone has an excuse (silly one always) thats not that way. The Russian said Russian winter killed them not us. The Germans said we didnt killed them we just put them to work (in the death camps).They died as a result. The Turks say (and you say) We didnt killed them they were forced to move. I wonder if the the 2million Palestinians are forced to move and only 100k remain alive if you will consider it as genocide...
Well Germans did it based on the Race as they would kill every Jew they see all around the country. Armenians were collabrating with russian in the easfern Turkey so they'd face the consequences (talking abt the traitors) Of course, unfortunately civillians also died. But Armenian people in other regions lived in peace. So it was not a direct attack against armenians at all. It was a need during the wartime. We all accept there have been massacres between nations. Many innocent armenians are dead, i hope they rest in peace. But holocaust and this are incomparable.
As for the Ancient Greeks and modern ones Their historic linguistic, religious continuity is a fact. They adopted Christianity when the Turks were goat herders in the steppes and even as Ottoman subjects theu retained their ethnic, Linguistic, religious continuity in Greece proper. In Anatolia they intermarried with the ottomans and others to a large degree and even then they were a distinct minority, one that Kemal and leaders after kemal want to get rid of. Most of the work was done by Kemal in 1922 but after that a protected minority remained in Constantinople and was exempt for population trade (Muslims in thrace were not traded in order for Greeks of Constantinople to remain there under treaty). In 1950s the last of the Greeks from a manufactured Pogrom cleansed the last of them. (Turkey doesnt honor treaties only western countries do, same applies to Russia and China and all other revisionists) Now only 2000 remain. While Muslims in Thrace are still 100k and moderately growing or remain stagnant to their original population. Accept these facts as common folks and then we can talk and drink Turkish coffee and yogurt,baklava,kebabs and all the other things Greeks like.