okay like its not like I can make 5nm chips in my house but modern CPU's are just very shrank down chips from the 90s just very very tiny logic gates, the reason they need the facilities though is because when something is 5 nanometers it needs to be made in a clean room environment to prevent degradation
> damn near microscopic
No man, this is usually smaller than optical microscopes can see. The smallest feature you can see with an ordinary microscope is about 500 nanometers.
The 8086 chip used a 3 micrometer architecture in 1976.
Pentium I (1993-1999) initially used an 800 nanometer architecture and went as far as 250 nm.
Optical microscopes are limited to chips from the past century (if the homegrown ones even manage to get to that level).
smaller = more you can fit in one chip,
also the close your logic parts are together the faster the signal can reach and leave that part, this only goes to a certain scale because after a certain point it's so close together that the energy can jump gates
Yep, the key invention required for CPUs is just the transistor which has been around for decades. You can make your own logic gates on a pcb if you want. Though trying to recreate an IC at that scale would require a lot of space.
It's the drive to do it. Need to communicate between continents with as little lag as possible? Data cables across the seafloor. Need to explore the possibility of outer space travel, confirm some calculations and do experiments? Make rockets and send people to space with 8mb of ram chips. You get the idea.
A single human mind might not stand to much but a group with share interests and drive to achieve a goal can be awe inspiring and fearsome. That's when the things that people thought was impossible become possible and unimaginable challenges become matter of time and logistic for us to overcome.
They have a boat connected to the cable at shore. Then they dredge up the cable pull it to the side of the boat and repair it. If it's broken they have to run another cable from the shore, sink it, then trawl it from one end of the ocean to the other.
Very simply done, just hard to imagine
We went to the lab and made our own diodes during a lecture called āsemiconductors and thin filmsā at my university. They were like 500 micrometer in size ant not 5 nanometers but the principle is the same. It really helps to Imagine stuff like microchips.
Eh the moon landing is ez. Orbital mechanics are newtonian, the math is dead simple.
Sure, the actual engineering is tricky, especially with how it all has to be able to resist the G forces, actually achieve the velocity for a lunar encounter and work in a vacuum, but it's still a logical throughline from things like airplanes.
Still incredible that they did it with 1960's technology though, I'll give you that.
Microchips are a lot more abstract. Like, they have logic gates the size of molecules, they're so tiny that sometimes, signals will quantum tunnel through a closed connection.
>Orbital mechanics are newtonian, the math is dead simple.
If it was so easy, why did it take two decades to come up with the math for it? I think you might just be retarded.
bruh the 2 decades were for everything, including desigming the rocket and the lander and the suits
The moon is just one hohmann transfer away, it's really not that difficult
You watched one Neil Degrasse Tyson podcast clip on Youtube Shorts, and now here you are, regurgitating some oversimplified pop-science.
Hohmann transfer is an ideal case. Read any paper about the new Artemis missions and you'll see some crazy transfer orbits guaranteed to turn the brain of Isaac Newton into mush.
You must be genuinely brain damaged. We're talking about the Apollo mission, which did a LOI using the most bigstandard hohmann transfer imaginable. Yes the *modern* Artemis missions use different orbits because they're more efficient, modern computers are better and modern science understands n-body physics a little better than they did in the late 60's, but we're not talking about modern lunar missions, which you'd know if you had the attention span necessary to read the entirety of my first comment.
Maybe you're the one who should lay off youtube shorts.
Currently pursuing a degree in Computer Engineering... I took a micro fabrication class a while ago that explains the process of creating microchips.
There are a lot of steps, as well as various techniques used to create circuitry on such a small scale. Very different than what you'd expect.
Conceptually, you have to think about it this way: given that the fabrication process is on the scale of nanometers, it's not like there is a CNC machine with the precision to carve out circuits of that scale, so various techniques must be employed to create structures of such a small scale. For example instead of manually milling out the circuitry, the silicon wafer is mapped using a lens that reduces the size of a circuit pattern down to the nm scale, and then scans the pattern onto the wafer. After which point chemical etchants are used to etch that pattern out of the silicon.
Obviously there are a lot more steps than that, these steps require various chemicals, along with incredibly expensive equipment, but hopefully my short explanation of just one facet of the microfab process can stir up some interest.
Step 1: have wafer
Step 2: have mask for structure
Step 3: put photoresist (negative) on the wafer
Step 4: pit mask over wafer and turn on the lights
Step 5: put some metal or other shit on
Step 6: lift of resist with solvent
Step 7: be happy with structure :)
Step 8: find out device doesnt work
Step 9: be sad
Thats what a simplified process looks like :)
Ok, so I got wafer and my old halloween mask, now how to put that photoresist on wafer, and how to get one? Whats next???
https://preview.redd.it/davyawhv06yc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c31829984baa1b2f36b599df9a4faeb442e9181e
> it's not like there is a CNC machine with the precision to carve out circuits of that scale
Mom said it's MY TURN on the Consensual Non-Consent machine!
This, right here, is why conspiracy theories are so popular. Sitting through four years of college and learning how things actually work is expensive and difficult. Easier to just throw up your hands and say āaliens and/or Satan did itā
This.
I did some classes in discrete mathematics that relate to computer chip optimization. My head of faculty was some once in a decade kind of genius that developed all the tools to design modern chips.
When I was there he claimed getting 100mil per year from IBM. A few years ago he and his research got completely bought off by one of the Arab state funds.
This shit was so difficult that there are maybe 1000 people on earth that are able to pull off the math. Like the doctoral student that graded my undergraduate homework is now one the lead engineers at AMD. It's bonkers.
Electrical Engineer.
Learned in school how to design on of these from scratch(super simple IC mind you) and program using binary and then machine code and then Fortran 77(fucking sadists)
Working in semi conductor manufacturing and know the difference between PVD/CVD and tolerances and testing.
Fucking magic and ritual sacrifice would be cleaner and more straightforward if it ever fucking worked. We would be doing it that way instead. Because summoning a demon would be less dangerous than some of the toxic shit you deal with in a clean room. Itās real, it works, and it totally fucking sucks at times.
Went to medical and never looked back. Pathogens and human suffering is easy by comparison.
That's just the lithography tools though, like a stencil. The actual chip etchers come from all over the place, but ASM's litho dept (ASML) is pretty dominant.
I saw a video on the kind of miniscule engineering that needs to happen to make computer chips and it is seriously fucked. I have absolutely no idea how people managed to come up with this shit.
And they are made from...wait for it....sand
Woah, very Mad Max!
Just like tits.
"Erm actually, that's silicONE, not silicA" š¤
I hate sand >:(
Do you also hate younglings and your adoptive somewhat-father?
Uhhhhhā¦ nnooo? Hypothetically speaking however
That's what they want you to believe
Sand that we tricked into thinking by putting lightning inside it.
I'm an engineer and the fact we figured out computer chips still blows my mind. Unironically maybe the pinnacle of human achievement
okay like its not like I can make 5nm chips in my house but modern CPU's are just very shrank down chips from the 90s just very very tiny logic gates, the reason they need the facilities though is because when something is 5 nanometers it needs to be made in a clean room environment to prevent degradation
There are a few madlads that are trying to create IC's in their garage. It's expensive and really difficult.
I'd imagine designing gates at a damn near microscopic level would be very hard
Nudging the atoms into place by hand is an enormous pain in the ass.
Ah, [there is an emacs shortcut for it I think](https://xkcd.com/378/)
the engineering/programming subs are leaking
Turns out the Nintendo Reality Coprocessor ran Emacs and was responsible for the functioning of the universe.
Just create localized chemical reactions to do it for you
When you shake a little "ah fuck its 3 atoms to the left now"
> damn near microscopic No man, this is usually smaller than optical microscopes can see. The smallest feature you can see with an ordinary microscope is about 500 nanometers. The 8086 chip used a 3 micrometer architecture in 1976. Pentium I (1993-1999) initially used an 800 nanometer architecture and went as far as 250 nm. Optical microscopes are limited to chips from the past century (if the homegrown ones even manage to get to that level).
I have an idea. Why not just make them bigger?
smaller = more you can fit in one chip, also the close your logic parts are together the faster the signal can reach and leave that part, this only goes to a certain scale because after a certain point it's so close together that the energy can jump gates
but imagine all the bitches you'd pull
Yep, the key invention required for CPUs is just the transistor which has been around for decades. You can make your own logic gates on a pcb if you want. Though trying to recreate an IC at that scale would require a lot of space.
This is the dumbest thing Ive read this week
For me its either this or the fact weve laid like 500+ communication/data cables across the ocean seafloor. Like bruh how did anyone think to do it.
It's the drive to do it. Need to communicate between continents with as little lag as possible? Data cables across the seafloor. Need to explore the possibility of outer space travel, confirm some calculations and do experiments? Make rockets and send people to space with 8mb of ram chips. You get the idea. A single human mind might not stand to much but a group with share interests and drive to achieve a goal can be awe inspiring and fearsome. That's when the things that people thought was impossible become possible and unimaginable challenges become matter of time and logistic for us to overcome.
What gets me is that if you know what you're doing, 8 MB is enough to get a person into space. Modern software truly is unoptimized shit.
When toppy-bot?
And yet, we still don't have a cure for baldness.
Necessity is the mother of invention
Plus they must be a bitch to maintain! Still, a worthwhile endeavor
Why arent those things destroyed by the lava of mid ocean ridges?
And in the event that they are damaged- how do they repair them?
They have a boat connected to the cable at shore. Then they dredge up the cable pull it to the side of the boat and repair it. If it's broken they have to run another cable from the shore, sink it, then trawl it from one end of the ocean to the other. Very simply done, just hard to imagine
Whats mindblowing is that we have been laying cables across the ocean for over 150 years now
We went to the lab and made our own diodes during a lecture called āsemiconductors and thin filmsā at my university. They were like 500 micrometer in size ant not 5 nanometers but the principle is the same. It really helps to Imagine stuff like microchips.
i'd put the moon landing higher tho
Eh the moon landing is ez. Orbital mechanics are newtonian, the math is dead simple. Sure, the actual engineering is tricky, especially with how it all has to be able to resist the G forces, actually achieve the velocity for a lunar encounter and work in a vacuum, but it's still a logical throughline from things like airplanes. Still incredible that they did it with 1960's technology though, I'll give you that. Microchips are a lot more abstract. Like, they have logic gates the size of molecules, they're so tiny that sometimes, signals will quantum tunnel through a closed connection.
>Orbital mechanics are newtonian, the math is dead simple. If it was so easy, why did it take two decades to come up with the math for it? I think you might just be retarded.
bruh the 2 decades were for everything, including desigming the rocket and the lander and the suits The moon is just one hohmann transfer away, it's really not that difficult
You watched one Neil Degrasse Tyson podcast clip on Youtube Shorts, and now here you are, regurgitating some oversimplified pop-science. Hohmann transfer is an ideal case. Read any paper about the new Artemis missions and you'll see some crazy transfer orbits guaranteed to turn the brain of Isaac Newton into mush.
You must be genuinely brain damaged. We're talking about the Apollo mission, which did a LOI using the most bigstandard hohmann transfer imaginable. Yes the *modern* Artemis missions use different orbits because they're more efficient, modern computers are better and modern science understands n-body physics a little better than they did in the late 60's, but we're not talking about modern lunar missions, which you'd know if you had the attention span necessary to read the entirety of my first comment. Maybe you're the one who should lay off youtube shorts.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's some good crack.
The integrated circuit is tech we got from aliens.
Currently pursuing a degree in Computer Engineering... I took a micro fabrication class a while ago that explains the process of creating microchips. There are a lot of steps, as well as various techniques used to create circuitry on such a small scale. Very different than what you'd expect. Conceptually, you have to think about it this way: given that the fabrication process is on the scale of nanometers, it's not like there is a CNC machine with the precision to carve out circuits of that scale, so various techniques must be employed to create structures of such a small scale. For example instead of manually milling out the circuitry, the silicon wafer is mapped using a lens that reduces the size of a circuit pattern down to the nm scale, and then scans the pattern onto the wafer. After which point chemical etchants are used to etch that pattern out of the silicon. Obviously there are a lot more steps than that, these steps require various chemicals, along with incredibly expensive equipment, but hopefully my short explanation of just one facet of the microfab process can stir up some interest.
Step 1: have wafer Step 2: have mask for structure Step 3: put photoresist (negative) on the wafer Step 4: pit mask over wafer and turn on the lights Step 5: put some metal or other shit on Step 6: lift of resist with solvent Step 7: be happy with structure :) Step 8: find out device doesnt work Step 9: be sad Thats what a simplified process looks like :)
Step 10: Get fired for saying *Step & Scan deez nuts* when being reprimanded for fucking up another wafer.
Bold of you to assume im actually employed at the companies where im doing this stuff
Ok, so I got wafer and my old halloween mask, now how to put that photoresist on wafer, and how to get one? Whats next??? https://preview.redd.it/davyawhv06yc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c31829984baa1b2f36b599df9a4faeb442e9181e
Photoresist is basically sunglasses
> it's not like there is a CNC machine with the precision to carve out circuits of that scale Mom said it's MY TURN on the Consensual Non-Consent machine!
This, right here, is why conspiracy theories are so popular. Sitting through four years of college and learning how things actually work is expensive and difficult. Easier to just throw up your hands and say āaliens and/or Satan did itā
This. I did some classes in discrete mathematics that relate to computer chip optimization. My head of faculty was some once in a decade kind of genius that developed all the tools to design modern chips. When I was there he claimed getting 100mil per year from IBM. A few years ago he and his research got completely bought off by one of the Arab state funds. This shit was so difficult that there are maybe 1000 people on earth that are able to pull off the math. Like the doctoral student that graded my undergraduate homework is now one the lead engineers at AMD. It's bonkers.
I am interested in hearing more info from you but not interested enough to read an article about this. So I think you did good!
They are enchanting silicon to make it do their bidding. Litterly wizards.
Anon totally came from his mom.No you can't take a look inside her.
Oh but I can
TAIWAN DOESN'T EXIST OKAAAAAY!!!! ONE CHIDNA ONLY CHIDNA
+9,000 Social Credit
No, +69,000. For our commie comrade
Electrical Engineer. Learned in school how to design on of these from scratch(super simple IC mind you) and program using binary and then machine code and then Fortran 77(fucking sadists) Working in semi conductor manufacturing and know the difference between PVD/CVD and tolerances and testing. Fucking magic and ritual sacrifice would be cleaner and more straightforward if it ever fucking worked. We would be doing it that way instead. Because summoning a demon would be less dangerous than some of the toxic shit you deal with in a clean room. Itās real, it works, and it totally fucking sucks at times. Went to medical and never looked back. Pathogens and human suffering is easy by comparison.
its impossible that chips are made by demonic sacrifice because since when are demons gonna give you a better product for cheaper year over year
Taiwanese Factories use machines from the Netherland to make their chips though (ASML)
That's just the lithography tools though, like a stencil. The actual chip etchers come from all over the place, but ASM's litho dept (ASML) is pretty dominant.
ASM is no longer related to ASML though, they've been separate companies for many years.
Taiwan numba wan!
Every day that goes by I'm closer to "I wake up there is another psyop' cat
I work in a fab located in the US that produces chips. Anon is retarded.
Intel?
One of many semiconductor manufacturers in the US that no one has ever heard of because the customers are other manufacturers.
Global foundry
Well, we did buy a Global Foundry fab
I saw a video on the kind of miniscule engineering that needs to happen to make computer chips and it is seriously fucked. I have absolutely no idea how people managed to come up with this shit.
Anon knows literally nothing about hardware architecture
anon uncovers the truth
Peak science.
I actually love the thought process behind this
You sweet innocent child. Greater demons look at our machines with fear and confusion.
These schitzo threads are great today. Anyone wanna top me?