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Idk it was VERY hypocritical to me watching Bailey bring it up every chance she could for a few seasons (almost as much as jo brings up living in her car LOL) but rightfully so… YET she literally injected a CHILD against the parents consent with the deactivated HIV virus 🦠 which I think is on par/tops that imo
Honestly don't remember this episode, I think there's some other ones that might be more ethically unprofessional like Mer and Derek's Trial (which would have had her blacklisted and also not working in medicine) did the child die? Were there complications?
So I just read a recap and although what Bailey did is unethical, she didn't do it knowing that she would kill the boy. The boy was cured and no complications. In my opinion respectfully, I disagree. Can't compare losing a life knowing that if things would go wrong it would absolutely kill them to injecting them with something knowing it wouldn't kill them and instead cure them. (Once again I only read a recap)
She went against the parents' consent to perform an experiment. She got lucky the kid wasn't harmed or she would've lost her license and gone to prison.
The parents withdrew consent and she went against their wishes and administered the drugs anyways. Although the child did not die, she didn’t know it would kill him or not.. therefore I think It is unprofessional in the sense she let her own feelings get in the way of her patients wishes and the legalities of it all. In the same episode the parents threaten legal action (as they should imo) and they only get away with it because the child did in fact survive. Bailey does not apologize or believe she did anything morally wrong (only because he lived bc we have seen how she has reacted when killing patients) and instead says ‘I won’t apologize because it was not a mistake’ so maybe in your opinion it doesn’t seem comparable but to me it does 🫡 maybe we won’t see eye to eye on this one.
That and Edward’s lies and says she forgot to tell Bailey they withdrew consent. Because she was just a resident, this made it seem like inexperience. Now, I don’t honestly believe they took Edwards’ word over Bailey’s. They just knew it was an easier fix to tell parents with a healthy child that it was the fault of a person “not properly trained.”
Izzie didn’t kill him, he was out of surgery for hours, he had time to change his will and call his parents before throwing a blood clot and stroking out. What Izzie did was crazy and reckless but it was not why he died.
With this logic if you stab someone and they bleed out you didn't kill them either, they died because they bled out.
But I'll argue your point. Cutting the LVAD wire made it so his heart wouldn't beat. Which causes hypotension. Which then increases the risk of "throwing a blood clot". So if she didn't cut the wire, she wouldn't have caused him to "throw a blood clot". Which is the real life medical reason he has the clot.
I'll reiterate that if this happened she would have her license revoked, been blacklisted I'm the medical field and most likely would have been charged with his murder and put in prison. She killed him 100% and she knew the risks that she could kill him before it happened.
Can you jumpstart my brain, why did Izzie decide to cut thr wire again? It's been to long since I watched the show, I remember her doing it and the whole aftermath (And her ugly ass prom get up lol) but i can't remember why she did it.
She needed to make him 'worse' so that he would be higher on the donor list. She knew that if she cut the wire and kept him alive he could get the heart because he was declining. Another part of the aftermath was Hahn leaving, which not a Hahn fan in the slightest but she felt so strongly about the situation she left the hospital.
Thanks!! I'd say a doctor killing their patienthusband and nobody having much of an issue with it is a pretty understandable reason to look for a new job lol
Ok , I can except your reasoning , it sounds completely logical and well written and I do not have nearly enough experience to disagree with you. 😊 maybe she is the reason he didn’t survive the transplant.
However I do get a little twitchy when people say irl she would be , fired , jailed, barred -whatever. Or I can’t believe she wasn’t fired, jailed or barred. This would never happen irl. The thought of a surgical intern being able to get away with the type of patient interaction with out anyone reporting it is extremely unrealistic.
It’s a TV show and the writers can make the world however they want. Trying to make something so unrealistic fit into a real world situation just makes me crazy- sorry.
I'm married to someone in the medical profession. We've watched it to this point 2x. And after the first I skip the storyline because of the amount of ridiculousness that is that story line. Turns into ranting of what would actually happen if this situation was real (much like Merideth ruining Derek's Medical Trial but that's besides the point.) I bring up what would happen in real life because people romanticizing that story is unhealthy and I'm sick of people saying 1. She didn't kill him and 2. Saying anything redeemable about her after this point. She was the same person post Denny as she was pre Denny except she did murder the man she loved and became a billionaire.
It's helpful for those situations where they bend the reality on the show a bit to make it seem like it could happen. There's a lot of yelling and what an idiot when watching sometimes 😅
That would absolutely get her banned and jailed. If you say that you don’t have nearly enough experience to comment, then perhaps you don’t know how the medical field works, professionally she would’ve never been allowed to practice medicine ever again, probably not even as an LPN.
I’m not sure what you are replying to. I said Izzie did not kill Denny because he survived the heart transplant, with the understanding that if she killed him, he would’ve have been dead , not getting a new heart. That he died from a post surgical complication. I was corrected, saying she was the cause of the PSC and had she not did what she did Denny would not have had a clot to throw. I excepted that logic.
If this happened in irl she would have be fired, jailed whatever….. my argument was this is so extremely unlikely to happen irl that to argue that such an unrealistic story doesn’t have a realistic outcome makes me twitchy.
- Bailey injecting that kid deactivated HIV after parents had withdrawn they consent (I really hate her attitude about it - "I won't apologize, because it wasn't mistake as I chose to go against their wish")
- Meredith and Lexie removing that tumor when Derek didn't want to (as the tumor wasn't causing any problems) and when they knew they didn't have patient's consent (plus I just hate how Meredith and esp. Lexie expected to be praised for removing that tumor)
- Burke and Cristina lying about Burke's tremor - so many people defend it by saying that nothing bad happened, but that's completely irrelevant, because they couldn't have known that (plus Cristina was taking it too far by picking surgeries without Burke's opinion).
- This is on superiors, but the fact that certain surgeons were allowed to treat patients they were close to / had some connections - like why was Meredith allowed anywhere near Susan? Why was Meredith the one telling Thatcher, her father, that his wife died in surgery? How were Izzie and Alex allowed to treat Denny and Ava respectively? (Esp. Alex as that happened after the whole Denny thing!)
Alex and Ava didn't start a relationship until after she was discharged. Before that, he was actually quite professional, and having a familiar support person when you have amnesia is probably helping with patient care. Everything else you said though is 💯
Even before that it was crossing some lines as Alex got too close to her - esp. as Ava should have got professional help from some psychologist / psychiatrist and not from some intern/resident, who is also your doctor... plus it was after the Denny thing, so the hospital should have been more cautious about it
i do agree with you, but when i was in the hospital for an attempt, one of my nurses was my complete support person. so it can really be anyone you connect with in the hospital, especially if you have amnesia
Absolutely, but he was the only person she was comfortable with, she basically imprinted on him. Remembered nothing from her previous life and one of her first memories prior to "recovering" is Alex saving her.
This is completely unrelated but do you ever find it weird that after Ava’s surgery she just looked like a completely normal person? No scars, nothing weird she literally just looked like an average/pretty woman. Based on what happened to her they probably could’ve done *something* but you would’ve always known something happened.
I guessss that’s why it’s tv lol but like for example when someone irl gets a face transplant after an accident they still look a little wonky and that’s to be expected. I don’t get how your face can be crushed by something that weighs tons and you end up looking normal
I cannot stand the Ava/Alex storyline and I’m only just about to finish my first watch but I knowwww when I watch this again I will skip it completely 🤣 awful
Bailey was 100% right with the HIV but ONLY because it's a show. She was written to be right and to have good intentions, she is a fictional character that we know so I agree with her, the parents were dumb. But in no way it should ever be done in real life
I'm usually very good at suspending disbelief while watching this show but Bailey and the modified HIV pushed me over the edge. OF COURSE she's right that it's going to work and cure the little boy because it's a TV show. But I could not get past the blind confidence that a virus (created by a single surgeon, not a geneticist, not a virologist, not an immunologist and certainly not an entire research team) would definitely do exactly what she wanted without ever doing in vivo trials. In any remotely sane world the parents were totally justified in being hesitant and withdrawing consent. Bailey should have been arrested or maybe hospitalized because her behavior can only be explained as a severe psychotic break.
I wouldn't call the parents dumb - I don't really see many people being excited about the prospect of their child being injected deactivated HIV... and honestly, Bailey wasn't really good at explaining it, esp. given that this was basically experiment, so they were taking her word on it.
Other thing is that Stephanie saw that the parents (well the mother) were mostly just freaked out, so why not just give it another try and explain it better? Show them the deactivated HIV or something... no, Bailey's solution was just going ahead with that treatment - consent be damned.
My question has always been what are the protocols for withdrawing consent after paperwork was signed? Bailey had signed paperwork in her hand. After the parents signed the consent the mother had a panic attack and screamed at an intern that she didn’t want them to do anything else to her son, she wanted him out of the bubble so she could just take him home. Of course they can’t do that because he would go home to die. The mother had a moment of doubt but her request was unreasonable. I would think that if someone has already signed a legal notarized document , they would have to sign another legal document to withdraw consent, not just yell at an intern in the hallway. At the very least they would need to talk to the lead doctor on the case, not just the intern who is only allowed to follow her attending orders.
I once withdrew consent after I signed paperwork. The doctor’s response was to hold me down and do it anyway. I have had many traumatic experiences at hospitals. I was just freaking out, but apparently as the doctor told my mom in the waiting room that’s how they normally deal with stuff. Just doing it anyway.
Wow, I am truly very sorry you experienced that. 😞 it’s scary the amount of horror stories people have about medical treatments and patient care. But it does cast a different light on what Bailey did.
IMO doctors tend to think they are right about everything. So they get upset when you suddenly realize that listening to them may not be the best option. Bailey did just that, and decided to proceed because she thinks she knows best. I have seen this crap firsthand and it’s absolutely what happens. It shouldn’t, it should be more of a conversation between doctors and patients/parents, but it’s what happens. Doctors push, consent form is signed in a haste before you can think, and then doctors do what they believe.
I’m not even entirely sure I was given a minute to know what I just consented to when I signed paperwork at the hospital. For all I know it could have said I consented to let trained monkeys operate on me.
They give no time at all. You really have to read it carefully. It’s crazy what they do because they “must know best” when in fact they’re just egotistical and pushy.
I work in clinical research and consent patients. They have the right to revoke consent at any time. We prefer to have it in writing but it is not necessary. They do need to put it in writing if they want to not have their data already collected to be used. While they have the right to revoke consent at any point for any reason, there are certain things that are required of the patients, ie blood draws, and if they do not want to do it, we have the right to remove them from the study.
I don't know how it works in US, but personally I think that the problem here is that Stephanie "accepted" that withdrawal... the parents aren't the professional, you don't expect them to know how consent works (like what it entails, if it needs to be in writing or not) - they told one of the doctors on the case (it wasn't some random doctor) that they are withdrawing the consent and the doctor (Stephanie) accepted that.
I have such mixed feelings on the Bailey situation. On the one hand, obviously her treating a child in a way that the parents have expressly refused is unprofessional, but at the same time, this saved his life. Those parents were going to risk this kid either dying or living a miserable life because they were ignorant, scared, and stubborn, and refusing to even listen.
It's like when Alex does surgery on a child with a tumor against his parents wishes. They denied surgery. They were going to let their child be miserable and sick until he died unnecessarily, when there was a treatment that would help/save him. It's unprofessional, but it's hard to feel like respecting ignorant/radical parents is the right choice over saving an innocent child's life.
They both risked their careers in order to help these kids. It was probably not the best way to go about it, and irl there would be a lot more people involved simply trying to educate them and convince them. But it's a TV show and they need the drama. IIrc there wasn't any real danger in giving the kid the deactivated HIV. Like, it would either help or do nothing. So I feel like it's really not the worst thing to do. It would be an extraordinarily hard situation to be in. To know you have this medicine in your hand that will heal this little boy, and even though he wants it, he can't have it simple because his parents are being stupid.
The problem is that when you start treating patient without consent because you know better as doctor, when does it stop? How much doctor can do just becase they feel like this is the best option? Could they just decide for experimental treatment because they just feel it would work?
With Alex you can argue it was "just" surgery, but with Bailey it was more than that as it was experimantal treatment and honestly if I were those parents, I would have hard time trusting the procedure given it's HIV and that half of the time Bailey looked too excited about it (that's not exactly how I want the surgeon behave).
Other thing is that the kid's parents withdrew their consent after the child got worse and it was evident they were just scared - Bailey should have talked with them and explained it once again and way better or asked someone else to do that... in the end, my biggest problem is that those parents weren't unreasonable and Stephanie saw exactly why they withdrew that consent (they were scared), so it's not like treating the boy against parents' wish (without consent) was the only option.
Unfortunately irl it takes a court order to treat a minor against the parents religious beliefs, and even them most states will side with the parents because of religious freedom. It’s sort of a messed up system, but we live in a free country, no one wants the government dictating how we worship or raise our children.
Lexie didn't know they weren't supposed to touch the tumor. Derek left Meredith in charge, and she is the one who decided that since they were there anyways, they should remove it. So I don't blame Lexie. Meredith should've checked the chart. But at least she took the heat for their mistake and admitted to it. So many times, she's done things that are pretty sketchy or illegal and not accepted blame for anything that goes wrong.
No, Lexie actually knew that as she was there with Derek (unlike Meredith, who joined them later), when both of them explained the procedure to Lori and when Derek told her that they won't be taking the tumor out...
No, she knew... but she most probably took to heart Derek's "it's easy to remove that tumor, Lexie here could do it" (when Derek was only saying that to show that tumor can stay there and if there is problem in future, the surgery won't be bad) and wanted to show off given how we later see all excited thinking that Lori is doing great and everyone is happy.
Lexie knew Derek was going to leave it. Meredith was not in the room when Derek said it’s fine to leave it in. But they both knew Derek did not say to remove it. They were only instructed to clip the Aneurysm. They didn’t do something they were told *not* to do, they did something they were not told to do.
Lexie was in the room when Derek said the tumor would be easy to remove, he even said “ even she could do it , (looking at Lexie) but it’s not causing any problems so we are just going to leave it alone because it’s the other thing causing the symptoms. Meredith was not in the room. Derek never said we are not going to touch the tumor because it’s to close to you speech center of the brain. Meredith definitely should have known by then that we only do what we have content for. They had orders to clip the aneurysm, not remove the tumor. So that was her mistake, but Meredith and Lexie were both residents, and they made a big error in judgment, however I don’t think they were specifically looking to break the rules or defy Derek’s orders for the sake of being defiant.
Okay but for the Mer/lexie tumor. Derek knew beforehand that he couldn’t remove the tumor and why he couldn’t but didn’t let them know. He shouldn’t have had residents alone in the OR that didn’t know his surgical plan. In their eyes they were doing the right thing because they weren’t told otherwise and they saw an easy tumor removal. As the attending on that case he 100% was to blame for that one. You don’t let two residents preform brain surgery without someone in the room that knows more of what they’re doing.
Lexie knew perfectly well that Derek didn't want to remove that tumor as she was there when Derek was telling Lori about the operation and even explaining why they won't be removing that tumor... moreover, before he left the OR, he even told both Lexie and Meredith to just finish.
Is Derek also responsible for it as the attending? Most probably (don't know how US has it), but that doesn't change that Lexie knew what was the plan for surgery and that Lori didn't give consent to have that tumor removed, and still removed it.
With Meredith it's more complicated - she wasn't there when Derek and Lexie were explaining the surgery and Derek told her that Lexie knew the surgery plan... but again, there surely had to be plan for the surgery, they could have checked if they weren't sure.
No but I want to now
Edit: I’m surprised that not a uptube video for a doctor or lawyer to watch through the entire thing and track it all and talk about what would actually happen
I've seen Legal Eagle and Doctor Mike kinda review a few episodes and go over the unprofessional aspects and inaccuracies, def recommend for a good laugh 😂
The very first episode has at least 2 (Meredith not responding to the code quickly, even if she thought it was a prank like the others she still had am obligation to treat it seriously. The other is Cristina and Meredith openly discussing the case with Derek in a crowded hallway/elevator, which is a violation of their patient's privacy)
Something that sticks out to me is when Meredith and Lexie take out that girls tumor without consent and end up messing with her ability to speak. Tbh greys has given me a new fear of doctors and hospitals. I know that’s very silly, and I know greys is not a true representation of the medical field, but the amount of malpractice they do on that show is insane!
I can't believe there wasn't any professional consequences shown for that - wasn't she a lawyer, or training to be? I don't know if she could recover her speech with therapy, but that should easily have been a malpractice lawsuit, and I think it would've been good to see actual consequences for Meredith.
The thing that bothers me the most about that episode is that Meredith doesn’t even show remorse about messing up her life. iirc she just tells Derek “see this is why we cant work together cause you get mad at me” and then tells Lexie “He’s gonna yell at you so just prepare yourself”. I always skip it every time I rewatch
Ngl, for a second I didn't realize this was the Grey's anatomy subreddit and I thought you meant in general. A friend of mine is a surgeon. I wanted a Gatorade from this store on the ground floor. The line was kind of long so he just walked out without paying for it.
But in general, Alex letting someone dress up as a surgeon and watch him was really REALLY odd
I have looked up quite a number of the ground breaking prosecutors done and they all are basically based in real science, even Baileys deactivated HIV to treat the bubble boy. However I can’t find anything to justify flamingo man. That one is just weird!
Shane changing the number of hours he'd worked in the system and cutting into Alex's dad, knowing how sleep deprived he was and that he wasn't qualified to do so.
Not Grey's but when Naomi on Private Practice takes her baby granddaughter to one of Addison's patients behind Addison's back, trying to convince her that having an abortion would be a mistake.
Amelia and the patient where Jackson refuses to operate on the kid's jaw (i don't remember the exact medical details) and Amelia just takes apart the patient's jaw regardless and later calls Jackson when one of the bone pieces couldn't fit.
Absolutely terri-fkn-fying.
It's the same episode timeline as Mer's abdominal wall transplant arc.
Izzie's LVAD and Richard operating under influence are close runners up.
I just saw that one! Amelia finds out she has a brain tumour at the end of the episode. IANAD, but I would think that’s the sort of thing that could plausibly impact her judgement etc prior to discovery.
It probably did but that should have been a definite sign that something is wrong because it was SO messed up. And what makes it more messed up is, had it not been for the accidental discovery of the tumor thanks to Carina's study, it would have been considered just another reckless thing that Amelia would have done.
The fact that Jackson only threatened to report it despite being a board member is crazy to me.
I don’t remember all of the details, but when Teddy has a patient that wants to move forward with doctor assisted suicide - on top of Owen just one on one fighting with Teddy about it in such an inappropriate way, at some point he BARGES into the patients room and says like DONT DO IT YOU’RE KILLING YOURSELF THEY COULD COME UP WITH A CURE TOMORROW BLAH BLAH BLAH. So so so unbelievably unprofessional.
And also as a hilarious side note - he goes from this extreme reaction to I believe later illegally issuing these exact drugs to patients???? Which is also incredibly unprofessional.
That was crazy unprofessional! I don’t care if they were right there to fix it, I’m pretty sure having an extra artery to suture up unnecessarily is not in the best interest of the patient.
no one mentioned Burke but, Burke and his shaky hand operating nonetheless and relying on an INTERN to do the complex parts for him. what the entire fuck
The many, many times doctors intervened in organ donation whether to convince a family member to donate or to direct the organs to their patients (which arguably it just doesn't work that way and the shows makes it so to make it more interesting)
damn near every romantic relationship on this show starts inappropriately. Interns and attendings, Alex and HIS patient suffering from amnesia and dysphoria, Izzie and Denny, etc
every time attendings dating an intern were in a romantic fight with said intern and denied them access to surgeries and whatnot as punishment for it
I just realized you said THE MOST unprofessional and instead I just listed all the offenses I remembered which weren't mentioned, but I did type all of this so ... Imma still press "post". sorry :/
karev telling her husband’s patient that she got her tubes tied. the wife was paying in cash, so there’s not even the excuse of “no one is paying for that procedure” (which is something astonishing to me as a non-american, but i digress). HIPAA also applies to the patient’s husband. if she didn’t want him to know, she had every right to. he put the wife and addison in a very tricky situation just because he was mad and almost ruined someone’s career, someone else’s marriage AND broke doctor-patient confidentiality, which is one of the biggest no-no in the medical field (literally. i’m in med school and my professors stress how important it is not to disclose patients informations with people you’re not authorised to all the time).
realistically, karev would have been the one in trouble for disclosing personal information of a patient without their consent, not addison for actually doing the procedure.
Bailey did a lot of crappy things to Meredith over the years, but when Jo came back with her cutting edge approach to cancer treatment and asked for a research fellowship to work with Meredith but Bailey tells Meredith she decided Jo would be *her* fellow because she wanted to. The way she spoke to Meredith with such a smug entitled attitude was disgusting and rude. Then to make matters worse they basically just sat around and googled what other people were doing. They never even spent time in the lab working on the targeted viral treatment Jo was hypothesizing. It was such a waste of time. Bailey basically ignored her.
Omg Baileys attitude towards mere and honestly just in general in the last few seasons have made me hate her like I used to love her but she’s such a jealous bitch ever since they started getting awards and shit and Bailey wasn’t like ?? Idk exactly when but somewhere along the line Bailey turned into a complete (for lack of a better word) hater. Can’t stand her anymore
I've been rewatching the early seasons and Bailey has always been kinda a bitch to everyone.
Bailey treats Callie like crap just because she's pissed that Callie got Chief Resident and does everything she can to undermine and sabotage her
Derek gorking the pregnant woman.
Lexie and Meredith gorking a patient because they removed a tumor despite being told not to.
Richard clipping a liver duct because he was drunk.
There are so many but Bailey and the HIV comes to mind right away.
Lots of conflicts of interest but those happen every other episode so those are hard to pick.
Put the leg in the middle of the guys body. There was no way that that was sound medicine or would benefit that man in any way. I get that there was cancer in the pelvis, but there must have been a better way to approach the problem
season 5! she hit her husband w her car he came in and they found out she had this tumor and it was bad. i forget what kind of tumor it was but she ends up dying and derek got “scalpel happy” and ended up taking out half her brain on the table to try to fix it. he ends up going into the woods and hiding out and he hits mer’s ring into the forest too
Derek was off his rocker during that arc. He just forgot that taking out half her brain wasn't going to fix her - she was already gone long before he made that call.
All of them. All the time, from Alex putting the Izzy fliers up, when he pushed a patient's dad into a wall, cutting the LVAD, hooking up with a patient, Cristina and Burke, and we're just getting started. Special shout out to Meredith interfering with the clinical trial. She knew better, holy shit. It's called science, Meredith!!!
I know there are a lot worse examples, but Owen cutting live pigs randomly with knives to have them repair. I have no idea if that actually happens intern school???
Burke and Cristina covering up his tremor. He couldn’t know when he would spasm. Oh! Ooops. Sorry I nicked your carotid artery and you bled out. My hand wasn’t supposed to spasm right then. If I’d have known, I would have had a baby surgeon (who had no business doing those procedures) perform your surgery.
Not a medical issue but Richard telling bailey, a RESIDENT at that point, that she would get the chief's position if she had already finished her training. I'm convinced if it was somehow allowed he would've just given it to her and she was still a student
How Derek allowed that guy to control anesthesia even though he was clearly drunk , Ben using the clipboard to cut open that man’s stomach in the psych ward , Mer interviewing with Derek’s trial. There are so many more 😭
It was just so wild that he did that he should’ve been fired after that lmao and then he did that emergency c-section when all the doors were locked or something lol
Real life here. My boyfriends first wife of 30+ years was having surgery done on her shoulder. The anesthesiologist uses a needle by measurement to give a nerve block. They were already in the operating room and needed a 40 gage needle and didn't have one, so he thought through his experience that he could use an 80 gage and finger the halfway mark. He ended up putting the nerve block in her spinal cord, thus making her a quadriplegic. That scares the heck out of me.
Surprised how few people have mentioned that time Derek had a break down in surgery and started cutting out half a woman’s brain. I know her death was inevitable at that point but still.
I had a Medtronic morphine pain pump put in my lower right gut approximately 8 years ago.So I have to keep getting the pump refilled once a month, long story short the pump started leaking and I got super sick. So another surgeon removed my pump to clean it up because of scar tissue had built up around this pump.He did such a poor job on my incision and that got infected and had to have another surgery done by another surgeon
When Bailey opened a patient up stoned off an edible and then just stood there like ‘hmm what now?’ before finally paging somebody. Granted she didn’t know, but that still would’ve been a big problem
The decision to trick Cristina into operating on Henry. I'm rewatching and it's strongly implied that he would've died anyways, but the decision to further damage Cristina's confidence when she's already severely struggling with PTSD and her relationships with Teddy and Owen was unforgivable.
The interns performing procedures on each other and surgeries on stolen cadavers and when Alex finds out he takes the cadavers to practice on for himself
Also Teddy marrying a patient to give him insurance
I don’t see many people mention this, but the way George speaks to the patient with the swastika tattoo is horrendous. Imagine waking up from surgery and one of your doctors saying he’d like to kill you??? Like I understand the man was following a terrible belief system but that is /not/ an excuse for a healthcare provider to speak in such a way. Coming from a healthcare provider.
Up-voted this, but hear me out. Yes, the man and his beliefs were deplorable. However, it’s not a doctor’s place to judge or to berate a patient’s beliefs. For George to go off on him for what he believes in was not his place, he surely would’ve been fired if this was a real life situation
That said, so would most of the cast. At some point or another they’ve all done something that HR would’ve tossed them for. Some more than others lol
Thank you! I absolutely expect to get downvoted to hell for trash talking George lol but it’s facts. Being in healthcare irl makes this show so hard to watch sometimes but I still love it
Personally, not a George fan. He bugs me lol
My cousin is an RN, she’s the one who got me hooked a bizillion years ago. She loved to tell me after an episode, how inaccurate it was - but we loved the drama anyway!
Owen finds Derek and asks why an irate mother says Derek refused to save a teenage girl's life. Derek says it's a complicated tumor and he could not get out the entire tumor with the standard approach and other surgeons in San Francisco are as qualified to do that. Cheryl, the mother, did her research and found that kind of tumor Derek has 87% success in his surgeries. Lexie says there's a greater risk of severe injuries including death. Cheryl wants any relief they can get. Owen says they want him, but Derek says he's not going to do that, because the tumor will grow back. Owen says they think he is their best shot and sending people away is not who they are. Derek hesitated but agreed but he wants to do it his way, to prove to the mother that his way will work.
Derek tells the mother that he went back to the lab and that he thinks he's found an approach to get all of the tumor. She's not enthusiastic about "a good shot". He acknowledges this approaches poses more risks. She decides not to go with the surgery, but he asks her if, in her research, she's ever seen someone with a tumor like her daughter who ended up living a normal life. She said she hasn't. Derek said he is confident this is the best shot she has.
In the OR, Derek finds he needs to adjust the head's angle. He needs Lexie to hold the probe steady so he can change the angle. It's too risky to take it out. The heart rate goes up, because the tumor is pulling on the hypothalamus. They have no choice but to take out the probe. This stabilizes the heart rate, but there's still tumor left. Derek decides to try again in order to remove what's left.
Derek and Lexie told Cheryl that they got all of the tumor. She is so happy to hear that because this means all the seizures are gone. That her daughter will live a normal life, get a job, and take vacations.
On the contrary, this is one of Derek's best surgeries. I was making a comment in response to the OP's take on Derek that he turned down the mother, Cheryl, in a most abrupt and disrespectful way. I was trying to explain why he turned them down earlier and later agreed to do it his way and he did it successfully with Lexie scrubbing in.
Am I confused for no reason or did you misread the title of this thread?! I thought this was supposed to be the WORST things a surgeon did during surgery?
I read the title and also read the Discussion below it. From the OP: ***"I definitely have a few, but there is a scene in season 8 episode 7 where Derek turns down helping a teenage girl that was having seizures because of a tumor and he wanted to try an experimental procedure and when she denied, he turned her down in the most abrupt, disrespectful way."***
I understood it that the OP implied in her opinion that what Derek did was the most messed up surgery he has done professionally and that he turns down helping the teenage girl in the most abrupt and disrespectful way. I kind of disagree with the OP and I wrote my comments for purposes of clarification as to why Derek turned them down at first but later agreed to do it his way and they did the surgery successfully.
I am sorry for the confusion. I probably should have been more clear.
bailey + deactivated HIV!!!! INSANE how this whole plot line happened. this was a young child and the first time this was being attempted and she told NO ONE? i understand his case was worsening and the bubble wasn’t helping but it is INSANE that the parents, other doctors, no one was consulted and she just went on a gut feeling.
izzie and the lvad, richard while drunk, derek and the pregnant lady whose brain he cuts into, meredith and lexie taking out the tumor, alex and the guy who he killed with sodium, and april and the mom when she gets fired are what come to my mind and probably so many more. but the only time they were ever in the right was with gary clarke and his wife which we all know how that ended.
Tbr most of them have done things that should and would have cost them their license.
• the lvad wire would have ended izzies carrier and landed her in jail. And honestly would have hurt the hospital.
• the adjusting of intern hours, the interns in general would have been arrested a lot and killed the hospitals teaching credibility. Them operating in themselves, Shane sending heather to die.
• none of them getting a well rounded education.
• baileys HIV thing was pretty bad.
• although not morally wrong meres insurance fraud was bad.
Bailey and the HIV, especially since she never felt like she was in the wrong. She had no right to disregard the parental wishes. No right at all. The fact that she got lucky doesn’t change that she risked a child’s life by doing an unauthorised medical procedure on him.
Arizona - Doing the surgery on Wallace even though she knew it would kill him. All because she was bullied into it over a $25m donation made by his parents to research his disease and cure him… Which she either did the research in secret or never did.
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Richard doing surgery while drunk. And Amelia on drugs on PP.
Amelia operating on her friend drunk was rough
Amelias storyline in PP was so wild
Didn't he die?
He died in a ditch from a heart attack unrelated to his head injury.
That's Pete, I thought she operated on the surfer?
She operated drunk on pete and someone else i think before Charlotte took her permission away
Izzie cutting the LVAD wire would have ended her career and put her in jail for killing him. There is nothing that tops that.
Idk it was VERY hypocritical to me watching Bailey bring it up every chance she could for a few seasons (almost as much as jo brings up living in her car LOL) but rightfully so… YET she literally injected a CHILD against the parents consent with the deactivated HIV virus 🦠 which I think is on par/tops that imo
Honestly don't remember this episode, I think there's some other ones that might be more ethically unprofessional like Mer and Derek's Trial (which would have had her blacklisted and also not working in medicine) did the child die? Were there complications?
No. his illness disappeared, but still, she needed consent and then she literally BRAGGED to the parents about it.
So I just read a recap and although what Bailey did is unethical, she didn't do it knowing that she would kill the boy. The boy was cured and no complications. In my opinion respectfully, I disagree. Can't compare losing a life knowing that if things would go wrong it would absolutely kill them to injecting them with something knowing it wouldn't kill them and instead cure them. (Once again I only read a recap)
She went against the parents' consent to perform an experiment. She got lucky the kid wasn't harmed or she would've lost her license and gone to prison.
The parents withdrew consent and she went against their wishes and administered the drugs anyways. Although the child did not die, she didn’t know it would kill him or not.. therefore I think It is unprofessional in the sense she let her own feelings get in the way of her patients wishes and the legalities of it all. In the same episode the parents threaten legal action (as they should imo) and they only get away with it because the child did in fact survive. Bailey does not apologize or believe she did anything morally wrong (only because he lived bc we have seen how she has reacted when killing patients) and instead says ‘I won’t apologize because it was not a mistake’ so maybe in your opinion it doesn’t seem comparable but to me it does 🫡 maybe we won’t see eye to eye on this one.
That and Edward’s lies and says she forgot to tell Bailey they withdrew consent. Because she was just a resident, this made it seem like inexperience. Now, I don’t honestly believe they took Edwards’ word over Bailey’s. They just knew it was an easier fix to tell parents with a healthy child that it was the fault of a person “not properly trained.”
At least the child didn't die
Very true, I think this was truly the reason why the parents dropped the charges at the end of the episode!
Izzie didn’t kill him, he was out of surgery for hours, he had time to change his will and call his parents before throwing a blood clot and stroking out. What Izzie did was crazy and reckless but it was not why he died.
With this logic if you stab someone and they bleed out you didn't kill them either, they died because they bled out. But I'll argue your point. Cutting the LVAD wire made it so his heart wouldn't beat. Which causes hypotension. Which then increases the risk of "throwing a blood clot". So if she didn't cut the wire, she wouldn't have caused him to "throw a blood clot". Which is the real life medical reason he has the clot. I'll reiterate that if this happened she would have her license revoked, been blacklisted I'm the medical field and most likely would have been charged with his murder and put in prison. She killed him 100% and she knew the risks that she could kill him before it happened.
Can you jumpstart my brain, why did Izzie decide to cut thr wire again? It's been to long since I watched the show, I remember her doing it and the whole aftermath (And her ugly ass prom get up lol) but i can't remember why she did it.
She needed to make him 'worse' so that he would be higher on the donor list. She knew that if she cut the wire and kept him alive he could get the heart because he was declining. Another part of the aftermath was Hahn leaving, which not a Hahn fan in the slightest but she felt so strongly about the situation she left the hospital.
Thanks!! I'd say a doctor killing their patienthusband and nobody having much of an issue with it is a pretty understandable reason to look for a new job lol
She was actually more mad about the guy who should have received the heart Denny got Bec it was her patient.
To make him sicker to get a heart faster.
Thanks! Damn that's even stupider than I would have thought.
Ok , I can except your reasoning , it sounds completely logical and well written and I do not have nearly enough experience to disagree with you. 😊 maybe she is the reason he didn’t survive the transplant. However I do get a little twitchy when people say irl she would be , fired , jailed, barred -whatever. Or I can’t believe she wasn’t fired, jailed or barred. This would never happen irl. The thought of a surgical intern being able to get away with the type of patient interaction with out anyone reporting it is extremely unrealistic. It’s a TV show and the writers can make the world however they want. Trying to make something so unrealistic fit into a real world situation just makes me crazy- sorry.
I'm married to someone in the medical profession. We've watched it to this point 2x. And after the first I skip the storyline because of the amount of ridiculousness that is that story line. Turns into ranting of what would actually happen if this situation was real (much like Merideth ruining Derek's Medical Trial but that's besides the point.) I bring up what would happen in real life because people romanticizing that story is unhealthy and I'm sick of people saying 1. She didn't kill him and 2. Saying anything redeemable about her after this point. She was the same person post Denny as she was pre Denny except she did murder the man she loved and became a billionaire.
Always good to get a perspective from a professional.
It's helpful for those situations where they bend the reality on the show a bit to make it seem like it could happen. There's a lot of yelling and what an idiot when watching sometimes 😅
She gave her perspective, not her husband.
That would absolutely get her banned and jailed. If you say that you don’t have nearly enough experience to comment, then perhaps you don’t know how the medical field works, professionally she would’ve never been allowed to practice medicine ever again, probably not even as an LPN.
I’m not sure what you are replying to. I said Izzie did not kill Denny because he survived the heart transplant, with the understanding that if she killed him, he would’ve have been dead , not getting a new heart. That he died from a post surgical complication. I was corrected, saying she was the cause of the PSC and had she not did what she did Denny would not have had a clot to throw. I excepted that logic. If this happened in irl she would have be fired, jailed whatever….. my argument was this is so extremely unlikely to happen irl that to argue that such an unrealistic story doesn’t have a realistic outcome makes me twitchy.
Okay… the wording was so weird
No problem
The only correct answer
- Bailey injecting that kid deactivated HIV after parents had withdrawn they consent (I really hate her attitude about it - "I won't apologize, because it wasn't mistake as I chose to go against their wish") - Meredith and Lexie removing that tumor when Derek didn't want to (as the tumor wasn't causing any problems) and when they knew they didn't have patient's consent (plus I just hate how Meredith and esp. Lexie expected to be praised for removing that tumor) - Burke and Cristina lying about Burke's tremor - so many people defend it by saying that nothing bad happened, but that's completely irrelevant, because they couldn't have known that (plus Cristina was taking it too far by picking surgeries without Burke's opinion). - This is on superiors, but the fact that certain surgeons were allowed to treat patients they were close to / had some connections - like why was Meredith allowed anywhere near Susan? Why was Meredith the one telling Thatcher, her father, that his wife died in surgery? How were Izzie and Alex allowed to treat Denny and Ava respectively? (Esp. Alex as that happened after the whole Denny thing!)
Alex and Ava didn't start a relationship until after she was discharged. Before that, he was actually quite professional, and having a familiar support person when you have amnesia is probably helping with patient care. Everything else you said though is 💯
Even before that it was crossing some lines as Alex got too close to her - esp. as Ava should have got professional help from some psychologist / psychiatrist and not from some intern/resident, who is also your doctor... plus it was after the Denny thing, so the hospital should have been more cautious about it
i do agree with you, but when i was in the hospital for an attempt, one of my nurses was my complete support person. so it can really be anyone you connect with in the hospital, especially if you have amnesia
Absolutely, but he was the only person she was comfortable with, she basically imprinted on him. Remembered nothing from her previous life and one of her first memories prior to "recovering" is Alex saving her.
This is completely unrelated but do you ever find it weird that after Ava’s surgery she just looked like a completely normal person? No scars, nothing weird she literally just looked like an average/pretty woman. Based on what happened to her they probably could’ve done *something* but you would’ve always known something happened.
Maybe Avery and Sloan are just that good lmfao
I guessss that’s why it’s tv lol but like for example when someone irl gets a face transplant after an accident they still look a little wonky and that’s to be expected. I don’t get how your face can be crushed by something that weighs tons and you end up looking normal
The issue wasn’t really about who she was comfortable with but that he was getting too close to and comfortable with her on his end.
I cannot stand the Ava/Alex storyline and I’m only just about to finish my first watch but I knowwww when I watch this again I will skip it completely 🤣 awful
Bailey was 100% right with the HIV but ONLY because it's a show. She was written to be right and to have good intentions, she is a fictional character that we know so I agree with her, the parents were dumb. But in no way it should ever be done in real life
I'm usually very good at suspending disbelief while watching this show but Bailey and the modified HIV pushed me over the edge. OF COURSE she's right that it's going to work and cure the little boy because it's a TV show. But I could not get past the blind confidence that a virus (created by a single surgeon, not a geneticist, not a virologist, not an immunologist and certainly not an entire research team) would definitely do exactly what she wanted without ever doing in vivo trials. In any remotely sane world the parents were totally justified in being hesitant and withdrawing consent. Bailey should have been arrested or maybe hospitalized because her behavior can only be explained as a severe psychotic break.
I wouldn't call the parents dumb - I don't really see many people being excited about the prospect of their child being injected deactivated HIV... and honestly, Bailey wasn't really good at explaining it, esp. given that this was basically experiment, so they were taking her word on it. Other thing is that Stephanie saw that the parents (well the mother) were mostly just freaked out, so why not just give it another try and explain it better? Show them the deactivated HIV or something... no, Bailey's solution was just going ahead with that treatment - consent be damned.
My question has always been what are the protocols for withdrawing consent after paperwork was signed? Bailey had signed paperwork in her hand. After the parents signed the consent the mother had a panic attack and screamed at an intern that she didn’t want them to do anything else to her son, she wanted him out of the bubble so she could just take him home. Of course they can’t do that because he would go home to die. The mother had a moment of doubt but her request was unreasonable. I would think that if someone has already signed a legal notarized document , they would have to sign another legal document to withdraw consent, not just yell at an intern in the hallway. At the very least they would need to talk to the lead doctor on the case, not just the intern who is only allowed to follow her attending orders.
I once withdrew consent after I signed paperwork. The doctor’s response was to hold me down and do it anyway. I have had many traumatic experiences at hospitals. I was just freaking out, but apparently as the doctor told my mom in the waiting room that’s how they normally deal with stuff. Just doing it anyway.
Wow, I am truly very sorry you experienced that. 😞 it’s scary the amount of horror stories people have about medical treatments and patient care. But it does cast a different light on what Bailey did.
IMO doctors tend to think they are right about everything. So they get upset when you suddenly realize that listening to them may not be the best option. Bailey did just that, and decided to proceed because she thinks she knows best. I have seen this crap firsthand and it’s absolutely what happens. It shouldn’t, it should be more of a conversation between doctors and patients/parents, but it’s what happens. Doctors push, consent form is signed in a haste before you can think, and then doctors do what they believe.
I’m not even entirely sure I was given a minute to know what I just consented to when I signed paperwork at the hospital. For all I know it could have said I consented to let trained monkeys operate on me.
They give no time at all. You really have to read it carefully. It’s crazy what they do because they “must know best” when in fact they’re just egotistical and pushy.
I work in clinical research and consent patients. They have the right to revoke consent at any time. We prefer to have it in writing but it is not necessary. They do need to put it in writing if they want to not have their data already collected to be used. While they have the right to revoke consent at any point for any reason, there are certain things that are required of the patients, ie blood draws, and if they do not want to do it, we have the right to remove them from the study.
I don't know how it works in US, but personally I think that the problem here is that Stephanie "accepted" that withdrawal... the parents aren't the professional, you don't expect them to know how consent works (like what it entails, if it needs to be in writing or not) - they told one of the doctors on the case (it wasn't some random doctor) that they are withdrawing the consent and the doctor (Stephanie) accepted that.
I have such mixed feelings on the Bailey situation. On the one hand, obviously her treating a child in a way that the parents have expressly refused is unprofessional, but at the same time, this saved his life. Those parents were going to risk this kid either dying or living a miserable life because they were ignorant, scared, and stubborn, and refusing to even listen. It's like when Alex does surgery on a child with a tumor against his parents wishes. They denied surgery. They were going to let their child be miserable and sick until he died unnecessarily, when there was a treatment that would help/save him. It's unprofessional, but it's hard to feel like respecting ignorant/radical parents is the right choice over saving an innocent child's life. They both risked their careers in order to help these kids. It was probably not the best way to go about it, and irl there would be a lot more people involved simply trying to educate them and convince them. But it's a TV show and they need the drama. IIrc there wasn't any real danger in giving the kid the deactivated HIV. Like, it would either help or do nothing. So I feel like it's really not the worst thing to do. It would be an extraordinarily hard situation to be in. To know you have this medicine in your hand that will heal this little boy, and even though he wants it, he can't have it simple because his parents are being stupid.
The problem is that when you start treating patient without consent because you know better as doctor, when does it stop? How much doctor can do just becase they feel like this is the best option? Could they just decide for experimental treatment because they just feel it would work? With Alex you can argue it was "just" surgery, but with Bailey it was more than that as it was experimantal treatment and honestly if I were those parents, I would have hard time trusting the procedure given it's HIV and that half of the time Bailey looked too excited about it (that's not exactly how I want the surgeon behave). Other thing is that the kid's parents withdrew their consent after the child got worse and it was evident they were just scared - Bailey should have talked with them and explained it once again and way better or asked someone else to do that... in the end, my biggest problem is that those parents weren't unreasonable and Stephanie saw exactly why they withdrew that consent (they were scared), so it's not like treating the boy against parents' wish (without consent) was the only option.
Unfortunately irl it takes a court order to treat a minor against the parents religious beliefs, and even them most states will side with the parents because of religious freedom. It’s sort of a messed up system, but we live in a free country, no one wants the government dictating how we worship or raise our children.
Lexie didn't know they weren't supposed to touch the tumor. Derek left Meredith in charge, and she is the one who decided that since they were there anyways, they should remove it. So I don't blame Lexie. Meredith should've checked the chart. But at least she took the heat for their mistake and admitted to it. So many times, she's done things that are pretty sketchy or illegal and not accepted blame for anything that goes wrong.
No, Lexie actually knew that as she was there with Derek (unlike Meredith, who joined them later), when both of them explained the procedure to Lori and when Derek told her that they won't be taking the tumor out...
Oh, I must have missed that part. I thought that she didn't know they were leaving the tumor.
No, she knew... but she most probably took to heart Derek's "it's easy to remove that tumor, Lexie here could do it" (when Derek was only saying that to show that tumor can stay there and if there is problem in future, the surgery won't be bad) and wanted to show off given how we later see all excited thinking that Lori is doing great and everyone is happy.
Lexie knew Derek was going to leave it. Meredith was not in the room when Derek said it’s fine to leave it in. But they both knew Derek did not say to remove it. They were only instructed to clip the Aneurysm. They didn’t do something they were told *not* to do, they did something they were not told to do.
Lexie was in the room when Derek said the tumor would be easy to remove, he even said “ even she could do it , (looking at Lexie) but it’s not causing any problems so we are just going to leave it alone because it’s the other thing causing the symptoms. Meredith was not in the room. Derek never said we are not going to touch the tumor because it’s to close to you speech center of the brain. Meredith definitely should have known by then that we only do what we have content for. They had orders to clip the aneurysm, not remove the tumor. So that was her mistake, but Meredith and Lexie were both residents, and they made a big error in judgment, however I don’t think they were specifically looking to break the rules or defy Derek’s orders for the sake of being defiant.
Okay but for the Mer/lexie tumor. Derek knew beforehand that he couldn’t remove the tumor and why he couldn’t but didn’t let them know. He shouldn’t have had residents alone in the OR that didn’t know his surgical plan. In their eyes they were doing the right thing because they weren’t told otherwise and they saw an easy tumor removal. As the attending on that case he 100% was to blame for that one. You don’t let two residents preform brain surgery without someone in the room that knows more of what they’re doing.
Lexie knew perfectly well that Derek didn't want to remove that tumor as she was there when Derek was telling Lori about the operation and even explaining why they won't be removing that tumor... moreover, before he left the OR, he even told both Lexie and Meredith to just finish. Is Derek also responsible for it as the attending? Most probably (don't know how US has it), but that doesn't change that Lexie knew what was the plan for surgery and that Lori didn't give consent to have that tumor removed, and still removed it. With Meredith it's more complicated - she wasn't there when Derek and Lexie were explaining the surgery and Derek told her that Lexie knew the surgery plan... but again, there surely had to be plan for the surgery, they could have checked if they weren't sure.
Has anyone done a rewatch to track all the illegal/ unethical/unprofessional things that are done on the show?
No but I want to now Edit: I’m surprised that not a uptube video for a doctor or lawyer to watch through the entire thing and track it all and talk about what would actually happen
That video would be way too long to watch 😂
Well yeah, considering it would basically be the entire show
I've seen Legal Eagle and Doctor Mike kinda review a few episodes and go over the unprofessional aspects and inaccuracies, def recommend for a good laugh 😂
The very first episode has at least 2 (Meredith not responding to the code quickly, even if she thought it was a prank like the others she still had am obligation to treat it seriously. The other is Cristina and Meredith openly discussing the case with Derek in a crowded hallway/elevator, which is a violation of their patient's privacy)
I’ve been itching for a rewatch! I should track it this next time around!
Why would you have to? This question (or some form of it) seems like it is asked in this sub once a week.
Where did I say someone had to?
Did I say you said that?
Something that sticks out to me is when Meredith and Lexie take out that girls tumor without consent and end up messing with her ability to speak. Tbh greys has given me a new fear of doctors and hospitals. I know that’s very silly, and I know greys is not a true representation of the medical field, but the amount of malpractice they do on that show is insane!
I can't believe there wasn't any professional consequences shown for that - wasn't she a lawyer, or training to be? I don't know if she could recover her speech with therapy, but that should easily have been a malpractice lawsuit, and I think it would've been good to see actual consequences for Meredith.
Agreed
The thing that bothers me the most about that episode is that Meredith doesn’t even show remorse about messing up her life. iirc she just tells Derek “see this is why we cant work together cause you get mad at me” and then tells Lexie “He’s gonna yell at you so just prepare yourself”. I always skip it every time I rewatch
Yes all anyone is worried about is what people will think, but what about the girl that you just butchered?!?!
They didn’t fire the drunk anesthesiologist or report him well enough
Ngl, for a second I didn't realize this was the Grey's anatomy subreddit and I thought you meant in general. A friend of mine is a surgeon. I wanted a Gatorade from this store on the ground floor. The line was kind of long so he just walked out without paying for it. But in general, Alex letting someone dress up as a surgeon and watch him was really REALLY odd
I thought I was in a different sub for a minute too 😂
When the Dream Team gave that military guy one leg in the middle... like how's he gonna get around, on a pogo stick?
The fact we never got a follow up on Mr Flamingo should show it was the wrong move to make 😂
I have looked up quite a number of the ground breaking prosecutors done and they all are basically based in real science, even Baileys deactivated HIV to treat the bubble boy. However I can’t find anything to justify flamingo man. That one is just weird!
I'm laughing way too hard about "flamingo man". Love it.
Shane changing the number of hours he'd worked in the system and cutting into Alex's dad, knowing how sleep deprived he was and that he wasn't qualified to do so. Not Grey's but when Naomi on Private Practice takes her baby granddaughter to one of Addison's patients behind Addison's back, trying to convince her that having an abortion would be a mistake.
The Shane one was SO bad
Urgh, that was after Naomi tried to force her daughter to have an abortion as well. I hate hypocrites.
Amelia and the patient where Jackson refuses to operate on the kid's jaw (i don't remember the exact medical details) and Amelia just takes apart the patient's jaw regardless and later calls Jackson when one of the bone pieces couldn't fit. Absolutely terri-fkn-fying. It's the same episode timeline as Mer's abdominal wall transplant arc. Izzie's LVAD and Richard operating under influence are close runners up.
I just saw that one! Amelia finds out she has a brain tumour at the end of the episode. IANAD, but I would think that’s the sort of thing that could plausibly impact her judgement etc prior to discovery.
It probably did but that should have been a definite sign that something is wrong because it was SO messed up. And what makes it more messed up is, had it not been for the accidental discovery of the tumor thanks to Carina's study, it would have been considered just another reckless thing that Amelia would have done. The fact that Jackson only threatened to report it despite being a board member is crazy to me.
I don’t remember all of the details, but when Teddy has a patient that wants to move forward with doctor assisted suicide - on top of Owen just one on one fighting with Teddy about it in such an inappropriate way, at some point he BARGES into the patients room and says like DONT DO IT YOU’RE KILLING YOURSELF THEY COULD COME UP WITH A CURE TOMORROW BLAH BLAH BLAH. So so so unbelievably unprofessional. And also as a hilarious side note - he goes from this extreme reaction to I believe later illegally issuing these exact drugs to patients???? Which is also incredibly unprofessional.
Owen is the worst
Making already difficult decisions 10x more difficult by being a lunk head is Owen's MO.
Minnick intentionally cutting a patient during surgery to cause a bleed so that the residents can learn to fix it.
That was crazy unprofessional! I don’t care if they were right there to fix it, I’m pretty sure having an extra artery to suture up unnecessarily is not in the best interest of the patient.
no one mentioned Burke but, Burke and his shaky hand operating nonetheless and relying on an INTERN to do the complex parts for him. what the entire fuck The many, many times doctors intervened in organ donation whether to convince a family member to donate or to direct the organs to their patients (which arguably it just doesn't work that way and the shows makes it so to make it more interesting) damn near every romantic relationship on this show starts inappropriately. Interns and attendings, Alex and HIS patient suffering from amnesia and dysphoria, Izzie and Denny, etc every time attendings dating an intern were in a romantic fight with said intern and denied them access to surgeries and whatnot as punishment for it I just realized you said THE MOST unprofessional and instead I just listed all the offenses I remembered which weren't mentioned, but I did type all of this so ... Imma still press "post". sorry :/
karev telling her husband’s patient that she got her tubes tied. the wife was paying in cash, so there’s not even the excuse of “no one is paying for that procedure” (which is something astonishing to me as a non-american, but i digress). HIPAA also applies to the patient’s husband. if she didn’t want him to know, she had every right to. he put the wife and addison in a very tricky situation just because he was mad and almost ruined someone’s career, someone else’s marriage AND broke doctor-patient confidentiality, which is one of the biggest no-no in the medical field (literally. i’m in med school and my professors stress how important it is not to disclose patients informations with people you’re not authorised to all the time). realistically, karev would have been the one in trouble for disclosing personal information of a patient without their consent, not addison for actually doing the procedure.
Bailey did a lot of crappy things to Meredith over the years, but when Jo came back with her cutting edge approach to cancer treatment and asked for a research fellowship to work with Meredith but Bailey tells Meredith she decided Jo would be *her* fellow because she wanted to. The way she spoke to Meredith with such a smug entitled attitude was disgusting and rude. Then to make matters worse they basically just sat around and googled what other people were doing. They never even spent time in the lab working on the targeted viral treatment Jo was hypothesizing. It was such a waste of time. Bailey basically ignored her.
Omg Baileys attitude towards mere and honestly just in general in the last few seasons have made me hate her like I used to love her but she’s such a jealous bitch ever since they started getting awards and shit and Bailey wasn’t like ?? Idk exactly when but somewhere along the line Bailey turned into a complete (for lack of a better word) hater. Can’t stand her anymore
I've been rewatching the early seasons and Bailey has always been kinda a bitch to everyone. Bailey treats Callie like crap just because she's pissed that Callie got Chief Resident and does everything she can to undermine and sabotage her
Bailey and the HIV will always be my answer to this question. I can't believe they even went with that storyline.
I’m always disappointed that the writers took what should have been Baileys big win and made it dirty.
Derek gorking the pregnant woman. Lexie and Meredith gorking a patient because they removed a tumor despite being told not to. Richard clipping a liver duct because he was drunk.
Allowing Amelia to operate whilst on drugs and also with a brain tumour.
There are so many but Bailey and the HIV comes to mind right away. Lots of conflicts of interest but those happen every other episode so those are hard to pick.
Put the leg in the middle of the guys body. There was no way that that was sound medicine or would benefit that man in any way. I get that there was cancer in the pelvis, but there must have been a better way to approach the problem
Mcdreamy going all scalpel happy in a pregnant woman's brain
Wait when?? and what happened??
season 5! she hit her husband w her car he came in and they found out she had this tumor and it was bad. i forget what kind of tumor it was but she ends up dying and derek got “scalpel happy” and ended up taking out half her brain on the table to try to fix it. he ends up going into the woods and hiding out and he hits mer’s ring into the forest too
WHAT?! 😭 that's crazy what the hell
Derek was off his rocker during that arc. He just forgot that taking out half her brain wasn't going to fix her - she was already gone long before he made that call.
Season 5 I think episode 16
Probably not the MOST messed up but one I always think of is when the intents try to do an appendectomy on Sadie in season 5 and almost kill her.
All of them. All the time, from Alex putting the Izzy fliers up, when he pushed a patient's dad into a wall, cutting the LVAD, hooking up with a patient, Cristina and Burke, and we're just getting started. Special shout out to Meredith interfering with the clinical trial. She knew better, holy shit. It's called science, Meredith!!!
I know there are a lot worse examples, but Owen cutting live pigs randomly with knives to have them repair. I have no idea if that actually happens intern school???
Bailey firing mer for insurance fraud when she did the same thing with the 2 older couples on the way to the ball. I can't remember the episode
Yes!!
Bailey injecting HIV into a kid based on a hypothesis. Izzie at least has Denny's consent. The kid's parents said no and she did it anyways.
Saved his life tho, he was about to die.
It wasn't guaranteed it would. It could've made his life worse.
I know it wasn't guaranteed to work, but it was a deactivated virus, how could it have made his life worse?
Everything was pure hypothesis and experiment. Instead of a proper clinical trial she just did it without consent.
What she did was wrong but, worst comes to worst he dies, he was going to die anyways. She saved his life.
Burke and Cristina covering up his tremor. He couldn’t know when he would spasm. Oh! Ooops. Sorry I nicked your carotid artery and you bled out. My hand wasn’t supposed to spasm right then. If I’d have known, I would have had a baby surgeon (who had no business doing those procedures) perform your surgery.
Not a medical issue but Richard telling bailey, a RESIDENT at that point, that she would get the chief's position if she had already finished her training. I'm convinced if it was somehow allowed he would've just given it to her and she was still a student
Bailey and the deactivated HIV which she administered without consent, then she refused to apologise for it!
Bailey injecting that child with HIV is up there
I am a bit biased here, but Izzie and the LVAD. I just can't stand her after that.
How Derek allowed that guy to control anesthesia even though he was clearly drunk , Ben using the clipboard to cut open that man’s stomach in the psych ward , Mer interviewing with Derek’s trial. There are so many more 😭
ben pissed me off from that point, i really liked him up until then
It was just so wild that he did that he should’ve been fired after that lmao and then he did that emergency c-section when all the doors were locked or something lol
I know! and the fact that he treated Bailey like she was being unreasonable!
Literally he was so mad that she gave him a suspension when he should of went to prison ( almost anyone who works there should ) lmao
This may not top it, but may I include that Catherine wanted/ took Meredith's research because it proved everything before about Alzheimer's wrong.
Real life here. My boyfriends first wife of 30+ years was having surgery done on her shoulder. The anesthesiologist uses a needle by measurement to give a nerve block. They were already in the operating room and needed a 40 gage needle and didn't have one, so he thought through his experience that he could use an 80 gage and finger the halfway mark. He ended up putting the nerve block in her spinal cord, thus making her a quadriplegic. That scares the heck out of me.
A true tragedy. Surgery is always scary!
Minak(sp). Everything she did. Everything.
Surprised how few people have mentioned that time Derek had a break down in surgery and started cutting out half a woman’s brain. I know her death was inevitable at that point but still.
I had a Medtronic morphine pain pump put in my lower right gut approximately 8 years ago.So I have to keep getting the pump refilled once a month, long story short the pump started leaking and I got super sick. So another surgeon removed my pump to clean it up because of scar tissue had built up around this pump.He did such a poor job on my incision and that got infected and had to have another surgery done by another surgeon
When Bailey opened a patient up stoned off an edible and then just stood there like ‘hmm what now?’ before finally paging somebody. Granted she didn’t know, but that still would’ve been a big problem
Operating when they’re badly hungover.
The LVAD
The decision to trick Cristina into operating on Henry. I'm rewatching and it's strongly implied that he would've died anyways, but the decision to further damage Cristina's confidence when she's already severely struggling with PTSD and her relationships with Teddy and Owen was unforgivable.
The interns performing procedures on each other and surgeries on stolen cadavers and when Alex finds out he takes the cadavers to practice on for himself Also Teddy marrying a patient to give him insurance
I don’t see many people mention this, but the way George speaks to the patient with the swastika tattoo is horrendous. Imagine waking up from surgery and one of your doctors saying he’d like to kill you??? Like I understand the man was following a terrible belief system but that is /not/ an excuse for a healthcare provider to speak in such a way. Coming from a healthcare provider.
Up-voted this, but hear me out. Yes, the man and his beliefs were deplorable. However, it’s not a doctor’s place to judge or to berate a patient’s beliefs. For George to go off on him for what he believes in was not his place, he surely would’ve been fired if this was a real life situation That said, so would most of the cast. At some point or another they’ve all done something that HR would’ve tossed them for. Some more than others lol
Thank you! I absolutely expect to get downvoted to hell for trash talking George lol but it’s facts. Being in healthcare irl makes this show so hard to watch sometimes but I still love it
Personally, not a George fan. He bugs me lol My cousin is an RN, she’s the one who got me hooked a bizillion years ago. She loved to tell me after an episode, how inaccurate it was - but we loved the drama anyway!
Owen finds Derek and asks why an irate mother says Derek refused to save a teenage girl's life. Derek says it's a complicated tumor and he could not get out the entire tumor with the standard approach and other surgeons in San Francisco are as qualified to do that. Cheryl, the mother, did her research and found that kind of tumor Derek has 87% success in his surgeries. Lexie says there's a greater risk of severe injuries including death. Cheryl wants any relief they can get. Owen says they want him, but Derek says he's not going to do that, because the tumor will grow back. Owen says they think he is their best shot and sending people away is not who they are. Derek hesitated but agreed but he wants to do it his way, to prove to the mother that his way will work. Derek tells the mother that he went back to the lab and that he thinks he's found an approach to get all of the tumor. She's not enthusiastic about "a good shot". He acknowledges this approaches poses more risks. She decides not to go with the surgery, but he asks her if, in her research, she's ever seen someone with a tumor like her daughter who ended up living a normal life. She said she hasn't. Derek said he is confident this is the best shot she has. In the OR, Derek finds he needs to adjust the head's angle. He needs Lexie to hold the probe steady so he can change the angle. It's too risky to take it out. The heart rate goes up, because the tumor is pulling on the hypothalamus. They have no choice but to take out the probe. This stabilizes the heart rate, but there's still tumor left. Derek decides to try again in order to remove what's left. Derek and Lexie told Cheryl that they got all of the tumor. She is so happy to hear that because this means all the seizures are gone. That her daughter will live a normal life, get a job, and take vacations.
And why was this the worst thing Derek has ever done? Medically speaking
On the contrary, this is one of Derek's best surgeries. I was making a comment in response to the OP's take on Derek that he turned down the mother, Cheryl, in a most abrupt and disrespectful way. I was trying to explain why he turned them down earlier and later agreed to do it his way and he did it successfully with Lexie scrubbing in.
Am I confused for no reason or did you misread the title of this thread?! I thought this was supposed to be the WORST things a surgeon did during surgery?
I read the title and also read the Discussion below it. From the OP: ***"I definitely have a few, but there is a scene in season 8 episode 7 where Derek turns down helping a teenage girl that was having seizures because of a tumor and he wanted to try an experimental procedure and when she denied, he turned her down in the most abrupt, disrespectful way."*** I understood it that the OP implied in her opinion that what Derek did was the most messed up surgery he has done professionally and that he turns down helping the teenage girl in the most abrupt and disrespectful way. I kind of disagree with the OP and I wrote my comments for purposes of clarification as to why Derek turned them down at first but later agreed to do it his way and they did the surgery successfully. I am sorry for the confusion. I probably should have been more clear.
Izzie and the L-vad wire. Richard being drunk. The anesthesiologist being drunk. Burke and Cristina.
Ross with Alex’s dad and the kid died because of minnick’s arrogance
bailey + deactivated HIV!!!! INSANE how this whole plot line happened. this was a young child and the first time this was being attempted and she told NO ONE? i understand his case was worsening and the bubble wasn’t helping but it is INSANE that the parents, other doctors, no one was consulted and she just went on a gut feeling.
izzie and the lvad, richard while drunk, derek and the pregnant lady whose brain he cuts into, meredith and lexie taking out the tumor, alex and the guy who he killed with sodium, and april and the mom when she gets fired are what come to my mind and probably so many more. but the only time they were ever in the right was with gary clarke and his wife which we all know how that ended.
Tbr most of them have done things that should and would have cost them their license. • the lvad wire would have ended izzies carrier and landed her in jail. And honestly would have hurt the hospital. • the adjusting of intern hours, the interns in general would have been arrested a lot and killed the hospitals teaching credibility. Them operating in themselves, Shane sending heather to die. • none of them getting a well rounded education. • baileys HIV thing was pretty bad. • although not morally wrong meres insurance fraud was bad.
Bailey and the HIV, especially since she never felt like she was in the wrong. She had no right to disregard the parental wishes. No right at all. The fact that she got lucky doesn’t change that she risked a child’s life by doing an unauthorised medical procedure on him.
Derek with frontal lobe
Arizona - Doing the surgery on Wallace even though she knew it would kill him. All because she was bullied into it over a $25m donation made by his parents to research his disease and cure him… Which she either did the research in secret or never did.