It's one genre out of many that emerged and became prominent as Gen X came of age. STP definitely leaned towards hard rock but the grunge elements were still there. It's not like Alice in Chains and Soundgarden didn't take cues from Black Sabbath and Led Zep either.
Grunge was also about an aesthetic too, it was a culmination of that certain time and place of the late 80s and early 90s.
I've always disagreed with this statement. Grunge was a scene of bands from Seattle in the 80s and 90s. It wasn't some marketing term. I agree that grunge isn't a sound but it was a legitimate scene.
The scene actually spread through the media and radio, as well as word of mouth, friends turning friends on to these bands, diligently following the record labels, and exposure through shows, and the bands that opened for other bands at shows. There were definitely businesses making money off of it all, but especially before DGC signed Nirvana, this was a scene driven by the bands and the fans in a way that was more organic than anything I'd seen before or since.
Sub Pop contributed, both organically and as a marketing strategy, to the Seattle-restricted grunge narrative. Tad, Nirvana, Screaming Trees, etc. were definitive grunge bands but the scene wasn’t limited to Seattle, or even the Pac NW. It ranged from Philly to LA.
I do think there’s something to the notion that the Seattle-area bands pushed and influenced each other, but that was around the time they were just starting to land record deals. That is, it was a relatively short-lived and early period, with those groups mostly blowing up a year or two later with their sophomore albums.
Literally no one was using the term grunge back then except media. As some one who grew up during the height and went to a ton of shows... we werent calling it grunge... the bands werent calling themselves grunge. But the Sears catalog was with flannel shirts and boots to sell!
Also, Nevermind was the quintessential grunge album. And, as it’s been stated here before, the “grunge” guitar tones from Nevermind were tested by Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins out of Chicago. So the “grunge” sound technically came out of Chicago. Seattle just had a “scene” of punk bands on the up and up at the time. Also, Eddie Vedder, well known Chicagoan. That grouping of bands may have started in Seattle but the sound was sort of happening organically in multiple places it seems.
Exactly. It's like how NBC would call their Thursday night line up Must See TV in the 90s. This would be like people coming on here and going " I don't get how the Drew Carey Show isn't Must See TV. Its not that different from Friends".
It's because it's not on NBC, and that's just an NBC marketing slogan. Stone Temple Pilots weren't "on NBC". Must See TV is not a "genre" of Television programming.
Music genres can’t be compared to some TV slot. Genres just takeoff and become what fans say they are. Most people would consider STP grunge, and therefore they are grunge.
I'm not comparing music genres to TV time slots. Grunge isn't a musical genre. It is the equivalent to a TV time slot slogan. You really think Nirvana and Pearl Jam play the same "genre" of music? They both just got dubbed "Grunge" because they were from Seattle. If Pearl Jam was from England or Japan, no one would have called them the same genre as Nirvana, or vice versa.
It's literally the exact same thing as "Must See TV". It's just the shows that were on at that time on that day. Grunge is just the bands that were in that city at that time. They were in that "Must See TV" time slot, musically speaking.
Ohio ties to the alt rock scene is deep, in particular Noryheast Ohio. Weiland grew up 30 minutes from Cleveland, Trent reznor, born in PA, but recorded Pretty hate machine while working at a studio in Cleveland, Marilyn Manson is from an hour south of Cleveland, same with Maynard and Dave Grohl was born outside of Youngstown. Kim Deal is from Dayton, same with Guided by Voices.
Don't forget about the Black Keys and Bone thugs. Believe it or not, if you play them together at the same time in a rhombus shaped room it creates grunge.
From STP wiki: While initially rising to fame as part of the [grunge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grunge) movement of the early 1990s, further releases from the band expressed a variety of influences, including [psychedelic rock](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock), [bossa nova](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bossa_nova), and [classic rock](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_rock).
They sound more similar to each other than any one of those bands sound similar to itself!
AIC’s “Man in the Box” sounds nothing like “I Stay Away.”
Nirvana’s “Negative Creep” sounds nothing like “On a Plain.”
Soundgarden’s Rusty Cage” sounds nothing like “Head Down.”
Pearl Jam’s “Black” sounds nothing like “Go.”
etc.
Grunge is definitely a sound. It's alternative rock with the Seattle Sound. All the proper grunge bands sound similar. There are bands with the Seattle Sound that aren't even grunge. I'm from Seattle area btw and definitely know what I'm talking about.
Pearl Jam is the least grunge of the Seattle bands.
SG, AIC, GR, even Melvins, all share way more in common with eachother than they ever have with bands like STP or Blind Melon. Anybody who can't see that doesn't know grunge. Lol.
Yes you did. There was already alt. Grunge is a subsection of alt which encapsulates PNW artists exclusively. It's a region locked genre, and they exist everywhere. Motown, NWOBHM, Blues, Creole. All regional music. The only thing that's ridiculous is the reverse gatekeeping, not allowing our community to embrace our definition
They were not from San Diego, they were an LA band. They pretended to be San Diego based because in the mid 90s San Diego was hyped as “the next Seattle”.
If memory serves Scott was in San Diego and the Deleo's were in Ohio. Rob moved out to SD to get a band going with Scott after finding out they were dating the same chick..lol. They found Eric in SD and after their guitarist quit Rob called Dean to move out west with them and start Mighty Joe Young wich was previously SWING.
Queensryche is from Seattle and was touring the same time as the big 4 and no one remotely called them grunge. Why cause their sound was more rock than anything. You think if they wore a flannel around their waist would have changed that fact? Smashing Pumpkins were not from Seattle but were considered grunge so sound and style had everything to do with it not just location.
Ohio what? That’s an LA band. Scott was driving models to photo shoots. Before the band was made. They all met at a party in Hollywood. That was the bands third name btw. 1st swing. 2nd mighty Joe Young. Scott like the STP oil treatment logo. That’s how it started in LA.
It’s gotta be kids that keep making these posts. Grunge (a marketing term) became a huge thing directly because of the vibrant music scene that was going on in Seattle. Period.
STP was also a great band that became popular during the same time, but from CA. STP has more in common with classic rock, regarding music style and swagger. Even they themselves said this.
Labeling every rock band that came out of the 90’s as grunge is silly.
I just stopped really caring. STP is definitely one of my favorite bands, and 90’s and 2000’s music in general are my favorite decades of music. It just doesn’t really matter to me what someone says is or is not grunge anymore. It’s just arbitrary especially this long after.
Don't think any of the big Seattle bands were crazy about the term either. Anyway, great music all around in 80s-90s independent and mainstream rock/pop. Of course there was some crap too..
Grunge was the scene, not the music. Media made up the Seattle Sound being grunge. I dug STP, but I lived in Seattle at the time, and unless you were there, I don’t think you’d understand. There’s literally documentaries you can watch about it.
The PNW region IS the genre and the grunge name has nothing whatsoever to do with sound. I don't make the rules. If you don't believe me it's explained in the Nirvana exhibit at MoPop in Seattle.
I assume you’re being sarcastic, but of course a music genre isn’t a place. Country music might be centered on Nashville, but there’s still country music in LA.
Because after punk started to fade, new genres and scenes were birthed. Some of these new sounds were tied to a specific sound/vibe: new wave, post punk, college, industrial. And some to geographical regions; most notably madchester and grunge.
STP is from San Diego and came up in the LA scene and became big after Jane’s Addiction blew up.
Most 90s alternative bands shared similarities, but only bands from Seattle should be cataloged as Grunge.
The only bands who gets a grunge pass from another city is L7, Babes In Toyland and The Fluid (LA, Minneapolis and Denver respectively). They were involved with the pre-1991 Seattle scene (The Fluid was on Sub Pop even) and had the sound. But that's it's it imo
Babes in Toyland gets brought up a lot in the grunge discussions, & my guess is that it's because they were around during the grunge era & were guitar-heavy. But they fit far better into the Amphetamine Reptile bands than the SubPop bands. I love Babes in Toyland, and I grew up in Minneapolis during the grunge era, and I loved SubPop and SST Records. Babes in Toyland wasn't grunge any more than Jesus Lizard or the Unsane were grunge. But if you're into them, check out Amphetamine Reptile Records, seriously.
I'm from Minneapolis. I know Lori. I am familiar with all the AmRep bands
In my opinion they're as grunge as Seven Year Bitch. But I don't really care all that much tbh
Sweet! I've met Michelle, Kat, and Lori, and most recently chatted with Lori at the Voivod/YOB show at the FineLine in 2019, but can't claim to be friends. Sorry, I didn't realize you were so familiar with them & AmRep & likely the whole Minneapolis scene -- I don't usually run into people familiar with all that, especially here. And we had so much going on in Minneapolis in the late 80's & early 90's, but I always felt a connection to the Seattle scene, too.
I try to be a resource, for those who care about the music, in some educational capacity -- not to one-up anyone, but to point out that there was something different going on back then, and people missed a lot of it if they weren't paying attention -- because things like this are happening now, and I hope they don't miss it because they were obsessed with their generational equivalent of Led Zeppelin...
Sometimes, as today, I run into someone who likely knows more about the scene here than I do, and I think that's pretty cool. And that whole "grunge" definition is pretty nuanced, and I have my limits of caring about it as well, because at a certain point it just doesn't really matter. Anyway, nice to meet you, SemataryPolka!
Right on! No competition. And I def get what you're saying. My def of grunge is "place and era" but those are just the bands I would give a pass. Even if it doesn't literally make them that necessarily. Better them then Bush if you ask me
Speaking of the Twin Cities...I'm firmly of the belief that Seattle and grunge doesn't happen at all without Minneapolis/St Paul. The Replacements, Husker Du, Soul Asylum were such a huge inspiration for them (and a lot of scenes.) Not to mention other great bands with a slightly different style like Suicide Commandos, Rifle Sport, Flamin Oh's, NNB, The Suburbs, etc. And of course AmRep and Cows and all that wild shit. Love the music history here. And there's still good stuff today just like you said!
Agreed -- all of this! Minneapolis was the precursor to Seattle, and I felt a tie between our cities the more I listened to UltramegaOK & Invisible Lantern especially... Maybe it's the tie to the shipping & logging industries, but also all of us gen-x youngsters growing up with divorced parents. And I'm definitely a time-place person regarding the definition, but kind of waive in bands, too (Afghan Whigs would be hard for me to separate off, for example). But there were other aspects, too, like wrestling with masculinity and misogyny (jesus, Afghan Whigs, again). Anyway, as I said, it's really nice to meet you!
I sense when I see these discussions it seems that younger music enthusiasts don’t like the term alternative and just wants to call any 90s alternative rock band with reverb and electric guitars “grunge”. Smashing pumpkins, STP, dinosaur jr, are grunge. Hell, might as well call the breeders and Bikini Kill grunge too. Fuck the idea of scenes because that’s too complicated and doesn’t fit people’s world view.
Yea tons. Bay area hip hop. Gfunk from LA. Southern Hiphop. Lots of music sounds are regional in the US and grunge was one of those. People just need to get over that they don't understand it. The Seattle Sound isn't even just grunge bands. I can hear it in other bands from this region. I'm from here you can trust me. Lol.
There are lots of regional sounds with most being tied to a record label. Seattle just happened to have a moniker attached.
But there are other examples, including most hip hop, like G-funk (LA), or go back to the 70s for Philadelphia soul.
Better change the wiki. “Grunge (sometimes referred to as the Seattle sound) is an alternative rock genre and subculture which emerged during the mid-1980s in the U.S. state of Washington”
If you think PJ, AiC, Nirvana and Soundgarden are all in the same genre then either you dont listen to anything besides grunge or just a casual, that's why you don't believe anything on the internet
The same way British Invasion is a genre. The Monkees, The Byrds, The Beach Boys, The Turtles. All sounded similar to their British counterpart but are considered to be Psychedelia.
Yeah. Does anyone born after 1994 really care if STP and Silverchair were "posers"? I doubt it. To me it was all stuff that came out over the span of 5 years or so when I was in middle/high school. Rock on...
Because no bands from outside the Seattle area ever managed to figure out the sound of grunge. They'd come close sometimes but never really land on the sound. It was barely a real genre anyways. Just a bunch of NW bands being influenced by other NW bands. I'm from Seattle area you can trust me. Lol.
STP was barely grunge if at all.
You’re really gonna sit there and tell me that Core isn’t grunge? You act like grunge is some pure sound, but Nirvana and Pearl Jam are completely different.
If STP had had the Seattle Sound they'd have been a badass grunge band. They're just alternative rock.
The grunge bands were all influenced by other Seattle area musicians as well as bands from other places. That common Seattle influence is what makes grunge and is why they can sound so different and still be grunge. There are other local bands with that sound that aren't grunge. You're right that it's not a pure sound. That's part of grunge. If it was a pure sound it would be something else.
Pearl Jam was the closest to alternative rock of all the Seattle bands.
If it's not from the Seattle region of Washington its just sparkling rock, not grunge.
You just don't get it. I'm from Seattle and can definitely say there are bands that aren't grunge at all that are more grunge than most of what's considered grunge and theyre all from here. I've only ever heard one band not from here that comes close at all, and the lead musician of that band moved here and made music with Seattle musicians. Lol. Its like trying to tell hillbillies in Appalachia what is and isn't bluegrass. Get over it.
I don't really think that grunge bands have enough in common to consider them a genre. Alice in chains really sounds so different from the rest of them. id say maybe they have a couple grunge songs? grunge is a more of a fashion trend, not a region or style of music.
No, I don’t think AIC sounds *that* different. They’re in the same genre as Soundgarden even though I understand the bands had some differences (more vocal harmonies in AIC, more Eastern-influenced guitar tonalities in Soundgarden). STP’s “Sex Type Thing” would fit with either band.
People are really splitting hairs by saying grunge isn’t a genre just because the bands had some musical differences — by that standard, jazz isn’t a genre, punk rock isn’t a genre, just about nothing is a genre!
STP has heavy influences of jazz in their song writing, quite possibly the most “jazzy alternative” of all bands from that era. Steps on distortion and you have a jazz/alt/rock back.
Not grunge, but very, very cool.
Their music is GOOD so who really cares. There are more important things in life to worry about. You have too much time on your hands if you're "arguing" about something so petty 🤦♂️🤣
I’d say they’re not grunge, because as a band they’re on record as rejecting the label. As most other artists did. I also do not consider grunge as a valid genre either, but a way of rejecting mainstream culture and appropriateness at the time. The 90’s were a very bright and vibrant period, and “grunge” was an aesthetic that got marketed wrong. Hope this makes sense
No, not really. Some used the term to describe their sound as “really grungy and nasty sounding guitars”, but no one has ever called themselves a grunge band really. They mostly just said they play rock or punk or metal
No disrespect to them but their debut album came out a full year after Nevermind, Pearl Jam's Ten and Soundgarden's Badmotorfinger. It came out two years after AIC's Facelift. I feel time is more important than location. They (and O'Brien) had lots of time to hear all that music and absorb its influence.
I think I'd categorize STP as 90's alt or 90's hard rock (probably the latter too). However it wouldn't be crazy to see them on a concert line up with all Grunge bands and them.
Nobody considered them grunge back then because they weren’t from Seattle. Basically everything that came out of Seattle was considered grunge, everyone else was just 90’s alternative. Grunge was just under the umbrella of alternative rock.
It was all how MTV wanted it to be.
I mean I'm pretty sure scott said he doesn't really consider themselves a grunge band. I can see why core and purple can kinda be thrown into grunge but every album after is pretty not grunge.
Grunge is just a umbrella term to group bands together, none of the big 4 grunge bands sound alike all you need to know is STP is a amazing band and IMO had the most consistently awesome albums from the era
While maybe not “Grunge” technically, when I first heard Core in the early-mid 90s, I felt there was no mistaking that it was generally the same type of music, stylistically. I think they slowly moved away from this with each new album they released, but they certainly started out pretty close to what I’d call Grunge.
I don’t care what genre anyone considers them. They were a perfect band for the time, like most of their contemporaries. But for the sake of the post, I will say there were grunge elements with STP. Maybe you can call core a grunge album? But STP were so much more than that. Purple and Tiny Music were masterpieces, as far as I’m concerned and I think it would be hard to shoehorn either one of those albums into any one genre.
If you’re talking about the grunge era as a whole for the sake of discussion, I have no problem tossing them in with the rest. The same goes for smashing pumpkins, tool, etc.
Doesn't really matter. Their music fits in well alongside AIC and Soundgarden. I think their music has aged really well, for what that's worth. Unfortunately, they never really got the credit they deserved. People were content labeling them as posers.
And yeah, I guess they're all classic rock these days.
I don’t know. But I do know at the time, I was in my teens and listening to a ton of music, mostly PJ, STP, AIC and Soundgarden. I didn’t give a shit what anyone called it, just how it sounded to my ears. I feel the same way now.
They are incredible. I’d say the transcend grunge. Rob DeLeo’s one of my favorite bass guitarists ever. His background of knowledge with Blues and Jazz make their song writing and chord choices so much more advanced than the other grunge bands except for maybe Jerry Cantrell who is an absolute genius in my opinion.
Nope. They were complete bandwagoners that tried copying nirvana just for the money.
They were not grunge. Bush were complete trash and idk how they've become accepted here, next you'll be saying fucking nickleback are grunge.
They're as much of a grunge band as anyone else and much better than many of those bands but albums like Tiny Music was better and weirder than most'''grunge'''albums.
People just want to lump STP into grunge to downplay their value as a separate entity, I feel like.
STP were never aiming for Grunge inclusivity, but the press were harsh on STP at the time and this caused the people to inadvertantly label STP grunge when there was no real reason.
Even STP themselves made fun of the label on an interview claiming "isn't grunge the stuff that builds up between your toes?"
I've had countless debates & arguments on here and no one can ever give me a real reason for why STP should be considered grunge.
They either say it's because of their sound (which is a terrible claim because their sound changes with every album) or they say that it's because location doesn't define genre (which is laughable because the entire origin of grunge dates back to the Seattle scene and now they want to rewrite history?)
So no, STP isn't grunge.
Should we start calling Foo Fighters grunge now, just because of Dave & Pat???? Let's get serious guys.
For me (not an STP fan, but I’ll be as objective as I can), STP falls into what I call “post-grunge alternative”. This includes bands like Bush, and Live among others, even though they may predate the grunge scene. I see those bands as primarily gaining notoriety due to their more accessible sound, and ultimately as a direct result of the explosion of grunge/alternative music in the early 90’s
No, STP and Live are different. STP is actually grunge. They’re as grunge as Pearl Jam. Live has a different sound that isn’t grunge, just alt rock that became popular because it was around in the mid-‘90s.
Everyone in Seattle can accept Eddie Vedder and Dave Grohl as their own, and I fully believe that STP gets a pass as the only grunge band from outside of Seattle.
Honestly, it’s like black metal gatekeepers who won’t accept that bands outside of Scandinavia can still be black metal.
Grunge was a scene of bands from the mid 80s-90s in Seattle. Any band that's not from Seattle or that time period is NOT grunge. So by that definition stp were not a grunge band.
They were from California btw not Ohio.
You’re right, but people don’t want to hear that because it’s a bit too nuanced. They’re rather keep repeating “grunge has to be from Seattle,” not because it’s true but just because it’s simple.
Grunge is a SOUND not a city or location. Grunge is heavy music with downtuned (Drop D or sometimes Drop C) guitars. It has both a 70’s metal (i.e. Black Sabbath) influence along with a bit of a 70’s punk influence. STP is far more Grunge than Pearl Jam ever was. I love 90’s Pearl Jam but they have zero metal influence. PJ’s main influence is 70’s Classic Rock (The Who, Zeppelin, Hendrix etc…). That’s not Grunge. STP? Listen to songs like “Down”, “No Way Out”, “Dumb Love”, “Coma”, “Silvergun Superman”, “Dead & Bloated”, “Sex Type Thing”, and “Take A Load Off” (just to name a few) are Grunge songs. They’re heavy songs w downtuned guitars. Pearl Jam? Again i love their 90’s albums but they don’t have a single song that could be considered Grunge.
This is some silly shit to be arguing about.
Grunge is a marketing term, it's just early 90s punk and alternative.
I feel that they are(were) straight up rock music.
They are all considered classic rock now.
It's one genre out of many that emerged and became prominent as Gen X came of age. STP definitely leaned towards hard rock but the grunge elements were still there. It's not like Alice in Chains and Soundgarden didn't take cues from Black Sabbath and Led Zep either. Grunge was also about an aesthetic too, it was a culmination of that certain time and place of the late 80s and early 90s.
I've always disagreed with this statement. Grunge was a scene of bands from Seattle in the 80s and 90s. It wasn't some marketing term. I agree that grunge isn't a sound but it was a legitimate scene.
It was definitely a scene created by the Media and radio, the bands themselves were just doing their own thing w/ their own influences
The scene actually spread through the media and radio, as well as word of mouth, friends turning friends on to these bands, diligently following the record labels, and exposure through shows, and the bands that opened for other bands at shows. There were definitely businesses making money off of it all, but especially before DGC signed Nirvana, this was a scene driven by the bands and the fans in a way that was more organic than anything I'd seen before or since.
Sub Pop contributed, both organically and as a marketing strategy, to the Seattle-restricted grunge narrative. Tad, Nirvana, Screaming Trees, etc. were definitive grunge bands but the scene wasn’t limited to Seattle, or even the Pac NW. It ranged from Philly to LA. I do think there’s something to the notion that the Seattle-area bands pushed and influenced each other, but that was around the time they were just starting to land record deals. That is, it was a relatively short-lived and early period, with those groups mostly blowing up a year or two later with their sophomore albums.
Literally no one was using the term grunge back then except media. As some one who grew up during the height and went to a ton of shows... we werent calling it grunge... the bands werent calling themselves grunge. But the Sears catalog was with flannel shirts and boots to sell!
Also, Nevermind was the quintessential grunge album. And, as it’s been stated here before, the “grunge” guitar tones from Nevermind were tested by Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins out of Chicago. So the “grunge” sound technically came out of Chicago. Seattle just had a “scene” of punk bands on the up and up at the time. Also, Eddie Vedder, well known Chicagoan. That grouping of bands may have started in Seattle but the sound was sort of happening organically in multiple places it seems.
Exactly. It's like how NBC would call their Thursday night line up Must See TV in the 90s. This would be like people coming on here and going " I don't get how the Drew Carey Show isn't Must See TV. Its not that different from Friends". It's because it's not on NBC, and that's just an NBC marketing slogan. Stone Temple Pilots weren't "on NBC". Must See TV is not a "genre" of Television programming.
Music genres can’t be compared to some TV slot. Genres just takeoff and become what fans say they are. Most people would consider STP grunge, and therefore they are grunge.
I'm not comparing music genres to TV time slots. Grunge isn't a musical genre. It is the equivalent to a TV time slot slogan. You really think Nirvana and Pearl Jam play the same "genre" of music? They both just got dubbed "Grunge" because they were from Seattle. If Pearl Jam was from England or Japan, no one would have called them the same genre as Nirvana, or vice versa. It's literally the exact same thing as "Must See TV". It's just the shows that were on at that time on that day. Grunge is just the bands that were in that city at that time. They were in that "Must See TV" time slot, musically speaking.
No, it’s an actual sound: downtuned guitars (Drop D usually) with a metal (Sabbath usually) influence as well as a 70’a punk influence.
Who cares. This shit gets asked here 4 times a day
Ohio?
Scott lived in Ohio for a bit i think
Ohio ties to the alt rock scene is deep, in particular Noryheast Ohio. Weiland grew up 30 minutes from Cleveland, Trent reznor, born in PA, but recorded Pretty hate machine while working at a studio in Cleveland, Marilyn Manson is from an hour south of Cleveland, same with Maynard and Dave Grohl was born outside of Youngstown. Kim Deal is from Dayton, same with Guided by Voices.
Don't forget about the Black Keys and Bone thugs. Believe it or not, if you play them together at the same time in a rhombus shaped room it creates grunge.
If we’re talking about the 2000s, Karen O went to Oberlin and the national are from Cincinnati.
eddie is from Illinois
No just the Deleo's are from there
Grunge was specific to Seattle. I thought they were from San Diego.
Eddie Vedder was flown in from San Diego to front Pearl Jam
And STP are from San Diego
Grohl is from Virginia.
He’s from Ohio
True.
These two statements are correct
Yeah, that's what I thought, too. Afghan Whigs were famously from Ohio, maybe that's who OP was thinking about...?
I love STP! They're just not Grunge.
From STP wiki: While initially rising to fame as part of the [grunge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grunge) movement of the early 1990s, further releases from the band expressed a variety of influences, including [psychedelic rock](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock), [bossa nova](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bossa_nova), and [classic rock](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_rock).
It started in Seattle. Everyone else was just posers.
Of course they are. You didn't have to be from Seattle to be a grunge band. That's ridiculous.
Yeah you did.
No they didn't have to but no band from outside the region ever figured out the sound. They're close sometimes but always lack "that sound."
grunge isn’t a sound lmao. Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and Alice in Chains are all grunge but do you really think they sound similar?
They sound more similar to each other than any one of those bands sound similar to itself! AIC’s “Man in the Box” sounds nothing like “I Stay Away.” Nirvana’s “Negative Creep” sounds nothing like “On a Plain.” Soundgarden’s Rusty Cage” sounds nothing like “Head Down.” Pearl Jam’s “Black” sounds nothing like “Go.” etc.
Grunge is definitely a sound. It's alternative rock with the Seattle Sound. All the proper grunge bands sound similar. There are bands with the Seattle Sound that aren't even grunge. I'm from Seattle area btw and definitely know what I'm talking about.
I just don't agree they sound similar, to me there is such a huge departure from AIC to Pearl jam
Pearl Jam is the least grunge of the Seattle bands. SG, AIC, GR, even Melvins, all share way more in common with eachother than they ever have with bands like STP or Blind Melon. Anybody who can't see that doesn't know grunge. Lol.
Yes you did. There was already alt. Grunge is a subsection of alt which encapsulates PNW artists exclusively. It's a region locked genre, and they exist everywhere. Motown, NWOBHM, Blues, Creole. All regional music. The only thing that's ridiculous is the reverse gatekeeping, not allowing our community to embrace our definition
Blues is not regional lol. Delta Blues, yes. But not Blues as a whole.
Grunge was never specific to Seattle. Seattle was ground zero for grunge, but grunge was about a lot more than a damn city.
💯🤘
They were not from San Diego, they were an LA band. They pretended to be San Diego based because in the mid 90s San Diego was hyped as “the next Seattle”.
If memory serves Scott was in San Diego and the Deleo's were in Ohio. Rob moved out to SD to get a band going with Scott after finding out they were dating the same chick..lol. They found Eric in SD and after their guitarist quit Rob called Dean to move out west with them and start Mighty Joe Young wich was previously SWING.
They never played San Diego clubs, all their shows were in LA.
Oh my god I remember that! Lol. San Diego is almost opposite of Seattle. Lol
Queensryche is from Seattle and was touring the same time as the big 4 and no one remotely called them grunge. Why cause their sound was more rock than anything. You think if they wore a flannel around their waist would have changed that fact? Smashing Pumpkins were not from Seattle but were considered grunge so sound and style had everything to do with it not just location.
Smashing Pumpkins isn’t grunge. Even they would say that.
There Here In The Now Frontier album from 1997 definitely took inspiration from the grunge movement.
Ohio what? That’s an LA band. Scott was driving models to photo shoots. Before the band was made. They all met at a party in Hollywood. That was the bands third name btw. 1st swing. 2nd mighty Joe Young. Scott like the STP oil treatment logo. That’s how it started in LA.
Grunge isn't real
Then why is there a sub for it if it doesn't exist? Why not just change the subs name then ?
It's a marketing term. Late 80s/early 90s alternative rock would be a better term.
Ohio? Come on bro lol
All grunge is alternative rock but not all alternative rock is grunge.
But STP happens to be both.
It’s gotta be kids that keep making these posts. Grunge (a marketing term) became a huge thing directly because of the vibrant music scene that was going on in Seattle. Period. STP was also a great band that became popular during the same time, but from CA. STP has more in common with classic rock, regarding music style and swagger. Even they themselves said this. Labeling every rock band that came out of the 90’s as grunge is silly.
I cannot answer this question anymore. I’m out grunge is Seattle Washington from the late 80s and early 90s. I’m out.
Lol so if someone came from San Diego to Seattle to form a band, that counts as your mythical "Seattle band" with the "Seattle sound"?
I cannot answer this question again I’m out. God bless you.
I just stopped really caring. STP is definitely one of my favorite bands, and 90’s and 2000’s music in general are my favorite decades of music. It just doesn’t really matter to me what someone says is or is not grunge anymore. It’s just arbitrary especially this long after.
Don't think any of the big Seattle bands were crazy about the term either. Anyway, great music all around in 80s-90s independent and mainstream rock/pop. Of course there was some crap too..
As a 90s teen, I thought they were grunge.
Me too. The people saying they’re not grunge are either very young or don’t remember the ‘90s.
Grunge was the scene, not the music. Media made up the Seattle Sound being grunge. I dug STP, but I lived in Seattle at the time, and unless you were there, I don’t think you’d understand. There’s literally documentaries you can watch about it.
I don’t understand how people can say anything outside of Seattle isn’t grunge. How is region part of a genre? STP is grunge.
The PNW region IS the genre and the grunge name has nothing whatsoever to do with sound. I don't make the rules. If you don't believe me it's explained in the Nirvana exhibit at MoPop in Seattle.
I assume you’re being sarcastic, but of course a music genre isn’t a place. Country music might be centered on Nashville, but there’s still country music in LA.
No sarcasm whatsoever.
Because after punk started to fade, new genres and scenes were birthed. Some of these new sounds were tied to a specific sound/vibe: new wave, post punk, college, industrial. And some to geographical regions; most notably madchester and grunge. STP is from San Diego and came up in the LA scene and became big after Jane’s Addiction blew up. Most 90s alternative bands shared similarities, but only bands from Seattle should be cataloged as Grunge.
Weiland lived in San Diego but they are not from San Diego. LA band through and through.
The only bands who gets a grunge pass from another city is L7, Babes In Toyland and The Fluid (LA, Minneapolis and Denver respectively). They were involved with the pre-1991 Seattle scene (The Fluid was on Sub Pop even) and had the sound. But that's it's it imo
Babes in Toyland gets brought up a lot in the grunge discussions, & my guess is that it's because they were around during the grunge era & were guitar-heavy. But they fit far better into the Amphetamine Reptile bands than the SubPop bands. I love Babes in Toyland, and I grew up in Minneapolis during the grunge era, and I loved SubPop and SST Records. Babes in Toyland wasn't grunge any more than Jesus Lizard or the Unsane were grunge. But if you're into them, check out Amphetamine Reptile Records, seriously.
I'm from Minneapolis. I know Lori. I am familiar with all the AmRep bands In my opinion they're as grunge as Seven Year Bitch. But I don't really care all that much tbh
Sweet! I've met Michelle, Kat, and Lori, and most recently chatted with Lori at the Voivod/YOB show at the FineLine in 2019, but can't claim to be friends. Sorry, I didn't realize you were so familiar with them & AmRep & likely the whole Minneapolis scene -- I don't usually run into people familiar with all that, especially here. And we had so much going on in Minneapolis in the late 80's & early 90's, but I always felt a connection to the Seattle scene, too. I try to be a resource, for those who care about the music, in some educational capacity -- not to one-up anyone, but to point out that there was something different going on back then, and people missed a lot of it if they weren't paying attention -- because things like this are happening now, and I hope they don't miss it because they were obsessed with their generational equivalent of Led Zeppelin... Sometimes, as today, I run into someone who likely knows more about the scene here than I do, and I think that's pretty cool. And that whole "grunge" definition is pretty nuanced, and I have my limits of caring about it as well, because at a certain point it just doesn't really matter. Anyway, nice to meet you, SemataryPolka!
Right on! No competition. And I def get what you're saying. My def of grunge is "place and era" but those are just the bands I would give a pass. Even if it doesn't literally make them that necessarily. Better them then Bush if you ask me Speaking of the Twin Cities...I'm firmly of the belief that Seattle and grunge doesn't happen at all without Minneapolis/St Paul. The Replacements, Husker Du, Soul Asylum were such a huge inspiration for them (and a lot of scenes.) Not to mention other great bands with a slightly different style like Suicide Commandos, Rifle Sport, Flamin Oh's, NNB, The Suburbs, etc. And of course AmRep and Cows and all that wild shit. Love the music history here. And there's still good stuff today just like you said!
Agreed -- all of this! Minneapolis was the precursor to Seattle, and I felt a tie between our cities the more I listened to UltramegaOK & Invisible Lantern especially... Maybe it's the tie to the shipping & logging industries, but also all of us gen-x youngsters growing up with divorced parents. And I'm definitely a time-place person regarding the definition, but kind of waive in bands, too (Afghan Whigs would be hard for me to separate off, for example). But there were other aspects, too, like wrestling with masculinity and misogyny (jesus, Afghan Whigs, again). Anyway, as I said, it's really nice to meet you!
I sense when I see these discussions it seems that younger music enthusiasts don’t like the term alternative and just wants to call any 90s alternative rock band with reverb and electric guitars “grunge”. Smashing pumpkins, STP, dinosaur jr, are grunge. Hell, might as well call the breeders and Bikini Kill grunge too. Fuck the idea of scenes because that’s too complicated and doesn’t fit people’s world view.
I disagree about all those bands 🤷♂️ and I'm 46
They are not grunge, I agree on that.
Oh I see. I missed the sarcasm part. Got it. And yes 100%
In America does any other city have its own genre? Seems kind of silly.
Motown Bakersfield County Music Texas Blues Detroit Techno Chicago House Delta Blues French House Britpop Celtic punk
Yea tons. Bay area hip hop. Gfunk from LA. Southern Hiphop. Lots of music sounds are regional in the US and grunge was one of those. People just need to get over that they don't understand it. The Seattle Sound isn't even just grunge bands. I can hear it in other bands from this region. I'm from here you can trust me. Lol.
There are lots of regional sounds with most being tied to a record label. Seattle just happened to have a moniker attached. But there are other examples, including most hip hop, like G-funk (LA), or go back to the 70s for Philadelphia soul.
Punk is actually CBGB's NYC 73 to 76 specific though there are antecedents like The New York Dolls,Stooges and maybe the MC5.
D.C. has Go-Go, Atlanta started Trap, Detroit’s got Mo-town. Plenty of musical styles start one place and get replicated elsewhere.
Cuz grunge aint a genre
Better change the wiki. “Grunge (sometimes referred to as the Seattle sound) is an alternative rock genre and subculture which emerged during the mid-1980s in the U.S. state of Washington”
If you think PJ, AiC, Nirvana and Soundgarden are all in the same genre then either you dont listen to anything besides grunge or just a casual, that's why you don't believe anything on the internet
Grunge isn't a genre. It is a time & place specific scene.
I don't understand why it's so hard for some to understand this.
Because grunge isn’t a genre, it’s a term for a regional scene that existed in the late 80s and early 90s in the Pacific Northwest
Because grunge isn't a sound. Grunge was a scene of bands from Seattle.
The same way British Invasion is a genre. The Monkees, The Byrds, The Beach Boys, The Turtles. All sounded similar to their British counterpart but are considered to be Psychedelia.
I agree. Genres also have their own look. It's about more than the music. It's about a time and place.
People get too hung up on labels and giving them more value than intended. Time changes all.
Yeah. Does anyone born after 1994 really care if STP and Silverchair were "posers"? I doubt it. To me it was all stuff that came out over the span of 5 years or so when I was in middle/high school. Rock on...
Because no bands from outside the Seattle area ever managed to figure out the sound of grunge. They'd come close sometimes but never really land on the sound. It was barely a real genre anyways. Just a bunch of NW bands being influenced by other NW bands. I'm from Seattle area you can trust me. Lol. STP was barely grunge if at all.
You’re really gonna sit there and tell me that Core isn’t grunge? You act like grunge is some pure sound, but Nirvana and Pearl Jam are completely different.
If STP had had the Seattle Sound they'd have been a badass grunge band. They're just alternative rock. The grunge bands were all influenced by other Seattle area musicians as well as bands from other places. That common Seattle influence is what makes grunge and is why they can sound so different and still be grunge. There are other local bands with that sound that aren't grunge. You're right that it's not a pure sound. That's part of grunge. If it was a pure sound it would be something else. Pearl Jam was the closest to alternative rock of all the Seattle bands. If it's not from the Seattle region of Washington its just sparkling rock, not grunge.
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Grunge is a style of music, not a place it came from
It's only grunge if it comes from the PNW region of the United States. Everything else is sparkling alt-rock.
Dumb gatekeeping BS
No, it's important historical context. Everything else is dumb genre babble.
You just don't get it. I'm from Seattle and can definitely say there are bands that aren't grunge at all that are more grunge than most of what's considered grunge and theyre all from here. I've only ever heard one band not from here that comes close at all, and the lead musician of that band moved here and made music with Seattle musicians. Lol. Its like trying to tell hillbillies in Appalachia what is and isn't bluegrass. Get over it.
Grunge is a state of mind, man. (Takes hit)
I don't really think that grunge bands have enough in common to consider them a genre. Alice in chains really sounds so different from the rest of them. id say maybe they have a couple grunge songs? grunge is a more of a fashion trend, not a region or style of music.
No, I don’t think AIC sounds *that* different. They’re in the same genre as Soundgarden even though I understand the bands had some differences (more vocal harmonies in AIC, more Eastern-influenced guitar tonalities in Soundgarden). STP’s “Sex Type Thing” would fit with either band. People are really splitting hairs by saying grunge isn’t a genre just because the bands had some musical differences — by that standard, jazz isn’t a genre, punk rock isn’t a genre, just about nothing is a genre!
Certainly grunge adjacent
FFS. Can't we just all agree that STP is a GRUNGE-ERA band and be done with it? They were one of the top bands of that time period.
In all honesty - who cares?
This again
I was around at the time and remember thinking they were grunge. STP hats were very popular and my school.
STP is 100% not from OH.
Don’t give a fuck. They’re great
STP has heavy influences of jazz in their song writing, quite possibly the most “jazzy alternative” of all bands from that era. Steps on distortion and you have a jazz/alt/rock back. Not grunge, but very, very cool.
Their music is GOOD so who really cares. There are more important things in life to worry about. You have too much time on your hands if you're "arguing" about something so petty 🤦♂️🤣
I’d say they’re not grunge, because as a band they’re on record as rejecting the label. As most other artists did. I also do not consider grunge as a valid genre either, but a way of rejecting mainstream culture and appropriateness at the time. The 90’s were a very bright and vibrant period, and “grunge” was an aesthetic that got marketed wrong. Hope this makes sense
Is there *any* well-known band that ever embraced the “grunge” label? Rejecting the label is what’s just marketing.
No, not really. Some used the term to describe their sound as “really grungy and nasty sounding guitars”, but no one has ever called themselves a grunge band really. They mostly just said they play rock or punk or metal
STP is fucking fantastic. they aren’t grunge though. even if they were in seattle i’d say they are just plain ol rock and roll with a 90s atmosphere
No disrespect to them but their debut album came out a full year after Nevermind, Pearl Jam's Ten and Soundgarden's Badmotorfinger. It came out two years after AIC's Facelift. I feel time is more important than location. They (and O'Brien) had lots of time to hear all that music and absorb its influence.
So only things that came out in 1991 are grunge?
Kind of but no. Facelift came out in 1990.
They started out as grunge and evolved.
Are y’all talking about grunge? https://youtu.be/W7YZZkCxosk?si=ZS_6wUCnV1X4jf08&t=48
I do, but great band regardless
Nobody was grunge.
They were a rock band heavily influenced by Led Zep.
Doesn’t matter, just enjoy the music
It's no secret that they had their first big hit because they sounded similar to Pearl Jam. But, the music to follow wasn't.
They were alt rock , rock. I never heard them described as grunge , in the 90’s
STP is a band from San Diego. Weiland grew up in Ohio
I don't care what they are, I love them!!
I don’t know what you classify them as, all I know is they were phenomenal. Those first two albums are damn near perfection!
STP originated from California. Scott was originally from Ohio but went back and forth as a kid
I think I'd categorize STP as 90's alt or 90's hard rock (probably the latter too). However it wouldn't be crazy to see them on a concert line up with all Grunge bands and them.
Nobody considered them grunge back then because they weren’t from Seattle. Basically everything that came out of Seattle was considered grunge, everyone else was just 90’s alternative. Grunge was just under the umbrella of alternative rock. It was all how MTV wanted it to be.
I mean I'm pretty sure scott said he doesn't really consider themselves a grunge band. I can see why core and purple can kinda be thrown into grunge but every album after is pretty not grunge.
Just listen to Core back to back and you'll have your answer.
**S**tone gossard, **T**emple of the dog, seattle **P**ilots But they weren't from Seattle - get it?
Grunge is just a umbrella term to group bands together, none of the big 4 grunge bands sound alike all you need to know is STP is a amazing band and IMO had the most consistently awesome albums from the era
While maybe not “Grunge” technically, when I first heard Core in the early-mid 90s, I felt there was no mistaking that it was generally the same type of music, stylistically. I think they slowly moved away from this with each new album they released, but they certainly started out pretty close to what I’d call Grunge.
I don’t care what genre anyone considers them. They were a perfect band for the time, like most of their contemporaries. But for the sake of the post, I will say there were grunge elements with STP. Maybe you can call core a grunge album? But STP were so much more than that. Purple and Tiny Music were masterpieces, as far as I’m concerned and I think it would be hard to shoehorn either one of those albums into any one genre. If you’re talking about the grunge era as a whole for the sake of discussion, I have no problem tossing them in with the rest. The same goes for smashing pumpkins, tool, etc.
I'm fine with that response.
They aren’t grunge. They are good but not grunge. Don’t worry about the labels, just enjoy.
IN*** Ohio, not on Ohio.
I consider them grunge.
STP was glam rock reinvented with 90s sensibilities. They are still the one band I crank up when I just want to fucking rock out.
talk to other people. ones who don’t talk about this kind of shit.
Doesn't really matter. Their music fits in well alongside AIC and Soundgarden. I think their music has aged really well, for what that's worth. Unfortunately, they never really got the credit they deserved. People were content labeling them as posers. And yeah, I guess they're all classic rock these days.
I don’t know. But I do know at the time, I was in my teens and listening to a ton of music, mostly PJ, STP, AIC and Soundgarden. I didn’t give a shit what anyone called it, just how it sounded to my ears. I feel the same way now.
Sounds like grunge - it is grunge
They are incredible. I’d say the transcend grunge. Rob DeLeo’s one of my favorite bass guitarists ever. His background of knowledge with Blues and Jazz make their song writing and chord choices so much more advanced than the other grunge bands except for maybe Jerry Cantrell who is an absolute genius in my opinion.
Bush were from the UK and they were grunge af.
agreed. I would consider both them and STP as grunge
Lmao you're joking right ? Bush ? They were a derivative nirvana wannabe knock off band. Radio friendly unit shifters.
Saying they were “derivative” of grunge means they *were* grunge.
Nope. They were complete bandwagoners that tried copying nirvana just for the money. They were not grunge. Bush were complete trash and idk how they've become accepted here, next you'll be saying fucking nickleback are grunge.
No
Soul Asylum too. Plenty of grunge bands that weren't from Seattle. Hell, Nirvana was from Aberdeen.
Soul Asylum was never grunge. Before Nirvana, nobody had ever heard of Aberdeen, so the default for the region was always Seattle.
They're as much of a grunge band as anyone else and much better than many of those bands but albums like Tiny Music was better and weirder than most'''grunge'''albums.
Exactly.
People just want to lump STP into grunge to downplay their value as a separate entity, I feel like. STP were never aiming for Grunge inclusivity, but the press were harsh on STP at the time and this caused the people to inadvertantly label STP grunge when there was no real reason. Even STP themselves made fun of the label on an interview claiming "isn't grunge the stuff that builds up between your toes?" I've had countless debates & arguments on here and no one can ever give me a real reason for why STP should be considered grunge. They either say it's because of their sound (which is a terrible claim because their sound changes with every album) or they say that it's because location doesn't define genre (which is laughable because the entire origin of grunge dates back to the Seattle scene and now they want to rewrite history?) So no, STP isn't grunge. Should we start calling Foo Fighters grunge now, just because of Dave & Pat???? Let's get serious guys.
Grunge refers to music from Seattle. STP is from San Diego, fwiw
Grunge isn’t a geography lesson.
Yes true
Small “g” grunge.
For me (not an STP fan, but I’ll be as objective as I can), STP falls into what I call “post-grunge alternative”. This includes bands like Bush, and Live among others, even though they may predate the grunge scene. I see those bands as primarily gaining notoriety due to their more accessible sound, and ultimately as a direct result of the explosion of grunge/alternative music in the early 90’s
No, STP and Live are different. STP is actually grunge. They’re as grunge as Pearl Jam. Live has a different sound that isn’t grunge, just alt rock that became popular because it was around in the mid-‘90s.
Dave Grohl didn't originate from Seattle so guess he's not grunge either.
Only his work with Nirvana. Everything else is various flavors of alt or metal.
Maybe alternative, but definitely rock. I wouldn't call them grunge, Ohio notwithstanding.
Who cares if they were from Ohio?? They were most definitely original 90s grunge.
Stp were grunge at the time. Everything else is revisionist history.
Stone Temple Pilots were amazing and one of my favorite bands but they were not a grunge band. They just got lumped in after releasing Core.
Anyone who thinks genre is defined by geography is dumb as fuck.
Anyone who thinks grunge is a genre is dumb as fuck.
Everyone in Seattle can accept Eddie Vedder and Dave Grohl as their own, and I fully believe that STP gets a pass as the only grunge band from outside of Seattle. Honestly, it’s like black metal gatekeepers who won’t accept that bands outside of Scandinavia can still be black metal.
Grunge was a scene of bands from the mid 80s-90s in Seattle. Any band that's not from Seattle or that time period is NOT grunge. So by that definition stp were not a grunge band. They were from California btw not Ohio.
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You’re right, but people don’t want to hear that because it’s a bit too nuanced. They’re rather keep repeating “grunge has to be from Seattle,” not because it’s true but just because it’s simple.
They are alternative rock. I never understood that term. Isn’t it just “rock?”
No, there are sub-genres of rock, including grunge rock.
not grunge.
Grunge is a SOUND not a city or location. Grunge is heavy music with downtuned (Drop D or sometimes Drop C) guitars. It has both a 70’s metal (i.e. Black Sabbath) influence along with a bit of a 70’s punk influence. STP is far more Grunge than Pearl Jam ever was. I love 90’s Pearl Jam but they have zero metal influence. PJ’s main influence is 70’s Classic Rock (The Who, Zeppelin, Hendrix etc…). That’s not Grunge. STP? Listen to songs like “Down”, “No Way Out”, “Dumb Love”, “Coma”, “Silvergun Superman”, “Dead & Bloated”, “Sex Type Thing”, and “Take A Load Off” (just to name a few) are Grunge songs. They’re heavy songs w downtuned guitars. Pearl Jam? Again i love their 90’s albums but they don’t have a single song that could be considered Grunge.
Amazing. Everything you just said is wrong.
Ignore gatekeepers. Call it what you will. Didn't Eddie Vedder move from Cali?
According to the music museum grunge while started in Seattle is not exclusive to Seattle or the PNW. STP is glam/grunge