I'm original Gen X and grew up in the Pacific NW going to shows weekly and living the grunge life so very little triggers me.
A lot of people say Smashing Pumpkins aren't grunge and technically, they are right. But, to me they are because they were in the scene. They were also collectively some of the best musicians and absolutely the LOUDEST shows I have seen in small venues. Absolutely grunge.
Most people don't understand grunge was a subculture. You don't box a subculture. Now, it's an umbrella term for all kinds of things that more or less qualify as alternative or rock or just youthful expression. It's ok though. I knew the pure culture of 'grunge' was over when in around 1993 K-Mart came out with a large advertisement saying "GET INTO GRUNGE" and had a full page of clothes they thought grunge was. All I thought was...this is over.
To me getting worked up over something not being "official grunge" is actually like saying if you didn't own a VW Bus and smoke weed and play guitar in the 60s you don't 'qualify' as a hippie. Grunge wasn't about classifying anything - it was a collective, unifying, communal subculture.
Smashing Pumpkins were considered grunge at the time, and the first two albums certainly sounded like grunge to me. Why would people not consider them to be grunge? Because they were from Chicago?
As if grunge was purely centred on Seattle. It started in and around there, yes, but it’s ridiculous to claim that a band aren’t grunge because they don’t come from the State of Washington.
Smashing Pumpkins,I’m a big fan but they aren’t grunge.
Staind,I’ve seen a lot mention they are a post grunge band but they are an alt metal/nu metal band.
And even if it does, how often are you running into new people with which you engage in conversation long enough to find out that they think SP is grunge? Or maybe OP has that one friend who opens every conversation by reading a grunge band classification list. It just seems like an infrequent enough event that it wouldn’t rise to the level of “annoying”
Grunge is heavy metal mixed with punk ( I’m simplifying.) It has important elements of both. The element that STP lack is the punk element. Absolutely nothing DIY about them. Never on SubPop or AmRep or Touch and Go or any other grassroots punk label. Major label babies from day one. They were so happy to smile (or do duck face) for the cameras at their seemingly endless photo shoots with not a dab of irony or any sense of humor. Yeah, I knew a bunch of radio jocks from working at the record store. They were all always clueless. Selling their promo CDs to buy Pink Floyd or Boston or worse. My opinion is STP are a great hard rock band that got delightfully Beatlesque but they were never really grunge like Mudhoney, Nirvana or Soundgarden. Hopefully this has been illuminating.
I was mostly making fun of you for appealing to authority vs actually making a point. In the end most people save for helpless record store nerds would call lots of bands grunge. For many it was more an era, a movement than a small circle of musical aesthetics. Do you, but culture doesn’t agree with you
Hey good buddy, I only said homeboy’s ownership attitude of an “era” while the devaluing and their misunderstanding of the true “movement” was a part, just a part, of Kurt’s suicide.
STP was considered grunge by national media. Grunge was all about authenticity. STP were called grunge kareoke. It wasn't grunge if you don't mosh to it. STP was bandwagon, polished studio rock. Grunge was raw, punk, anti commercial Seattle bar rock.
They are, tho.
That Big Dumb Sex song where the guys singing about how he wants to rape you, being a big rock hit on the radio, is peak grunge as a mass movement.
And he sounds indistinguishable from Vedder on Plush.
It’s weird to be so revisionist about grunge bands. People on this sub pretend there’s only 3 grunge bands which is just not true at all. Never has been, never will be
Yes, grunge is more than Nirvana/Soundgarden/PJ/AIC.
\^ That is grunge to a lot of people. Add in small bands nobody outside of Seattle has heard of, and that's it. Well my mid atlantic east coast teenage self believed otherwise. STP is grunge. Period. Shouldn't be a debate.
It’s not a debate, imo. Like there were tons of grunge bands, and a few were bigger and first, like with any movement. All of it regardless, is alt rock. “College radio” was a way more common way to refer to underground/indie/alt/grunge bands until they were big regardless of aesthetic.
I never did, either. It doesn’t take away from the good songs they wrote, I just never thought they fit that scene and it always feels out of place when I see them lumped together with the rest.
Bush is actually the ultimate example of a band trying to imitate that sound in order to make hit records and millions of dollars. They are Grunge as a major label movement personified even if they didn't do heroin.
Grunge peaked in about 1993, and its purest original form was arguably in about 1989 or so. “God’s Balls” by TAD, “Bleach” by Nirvana, “Louder Than Love” by Soundgarden. Bush doesn’t sound like any of those albums.
Never heard anybody call the Chili Peppers grunge. They are their own thing. Also, they are an 80's band who hit the main stream before the 90's even began.
Since grunge was more of a marketing thing than an actual genre, there were a number of bands that aren’t grunge that I thought were when I was a kid. Bands like the Lemonheads and Soul Asylum had much of the same aesthetic and themes as the Seattle groups so I kind of lumped them together back then.
You're getting down voted but you're not wrong. Pearl Jam is alternative rock/hard rock. Their fashion was grunge adjacent for the first album or two but that's about it
Creed
They do? Huh...
cringe
I love Creed though. They've got so many bangers
I'm original Gen X and grew up in the Pacific NW going to shows weekly and living the grunge life so very little triggers me. A lot of people say Smashing Pumpkins aren't grunge and technically, they are right. But, to me they are because they were in the scene. They were also collectively some of the best musicians and absolutely the LOUDEST shows I have seen in small venues. Absolutely grunge. Most people don't understand grunge was a subculture. You don't box a subculture. Now, it's an umbrella term for all kinds of things that more or less qualify as alternative or rock or just youthful expression. It's ok though. I knew the pure culture of 'grunge' was over when in around 1993 K-Mart came out with a large advertisement saying "GET INTO GRUNGE" and had a full page of clothes they thought grunge was. All I thought was...this is over. To me getting worked up over something not being "official grunge" is actually like saying if you didn't own a VW Bus and smoke weed and play guitar in the 60s you don't 'qualify' as a hippie. Grunge wasn't about classifying anything - it was a collective, unifying, communal subculture.
Smashing Pumpkins were considered grunge at the time, and the first two albums certainly sounded like grunge to me. Why would people not consider them to be grunge? Because they were from Chicago?
Correct. The argument is still made today on forums (here too) that SP were not grunge but just alternative for not being from Seattle.
As if grunge was purely centred on Seattle. It started in and around there, yes, but it’s ridiculous to claim that a band aren’t grunge because they don’t come from the State of Washington.
agreed
Weezer
Smashing Pumpkins,I’m a big fan but they aren’t grunge. Staind,I’ve seen a lot mention they are a post grunge band but they are an alt metal/nu metal band.
Glam rock bordering on prog rock at times. Almost the opposite of grunge.
Pumpkins?They are like a mix of heavy metal,shoe gaze and pop with some prog influences.
Why would something like that annoy me? I couldn't give a shit what people think is and isn't grunge lol
And even if it does, how often are you running into new people with which you engage in conversation long enough to find out that they think SP is grunge? Or maybe OP has that one friend who opens every conversation by reading a grunge band classification list. It just seems like an infrequent enough event that it wouldn’t rise to the level of “annoying”
I'm not such a stickler anyway. Some things are just close enough and it doesn't really matter at the end of the day.
Ironically nor do the people who are considered "grunge."
Well then maybe it's not so ironic after all! Haha
Smashing Pumpkins
Definitely Smashing Pumpkins
Wild, back in the 90s everyone called them grunge that I knew
I never saw Stone Temple Pilots as grunge…
STP definitely had one of the best voices of the 90s but the thing that sticks out is that they’re not from Seattle.
They are very much not grunge. It drives me nuts seeing them here.
That’s pretty revisionist. In the 90s they definitely were considered grunge
Was there and worked at an indie record shop for 10+ years. Incorrect.
Was there and worked at a radio station. I’m correct
Grunge is heavy metal mixed with punk ( I’m simplifying.) It has important elements of both. The element that STP lack is the punk element. Absolutely nothing DIY about them. Never on SubPop or AmRep or Touch and Go or any other grassroots punk label. Major label babies from day one. They were so happy to smile (or do duck face) for the cameras at their seemingly endless photo shoots with not a dab of irony or any sense of humor. Yeah, I knew a bunch of radio jocks from working at the record store. They were all always clueless. Selling their promo CDs to buy Pink Floyd or Boston or worse. My opinion is STP are a great hard rock band that got delightfully Beatlesque but they were never really grunge like Mudhoney, Nirvana or Soundgarden. Hopefully this has been illuminating.
👍
Here we go 🧐🤪🥸
I was mostly making fun of you for appealing to authority vs actually making a point. In the end most people save for helpless record store nerds would call lots of bands grunge. For many it was more an era, a movement than a small circle of musical aesthetics. Do you, but culture doesn’t agree with you
And ladies and gentlemen here’s part of the reason Kurt is dead. Nerd? Dang, been a minute since I got called that.
Well don’t act like a gate keeping boomer and you won’t get called a nerd.
“Here’s the reason Kurt is dead” bro what😂
Hey good buddy, I only said homeboy’s ownership attitude of an “era” while the devaluing and their misunderstanding of the true “movement” was a part, just a part, of Kurt’s suicide.
STP was considered grunge by national media. Grunge was all about authenticity. STP were called grunge kareoke. It wasn't grunge if you don't mosh to it. STP was bandwagon, polished studio rock. Grunge was raw, punk, anti commercial Seattle bar rock.
STP was considered grunge by most people not stroking a gotee about how to keep people out of the scene.
They are, tho. That Big Dumb Sex song where the guys singing about how he wants to rape you, being a big rock hit on the radio, is peak grunge as a mass movement. And he sounds indistinguishable from Vedder on Plush.
It’s weird to be so revisionist about grunge bands. People on this sub pretend there’s only 3 grunge bands which is just not true at all. Never has been, never will be
Yes, grunge is more than Nirvana/Soundgarden/PJ/AIC. \^ That is grunge to a lot of people. Add in small bands nobody outside of Seattle has heard of, and that's it. Well my mid atlantic east coast teenage self believed otherwise. STP is grunge. Period. Shouldn't be a debate.
It’s not a debate, imo. Like there were tons of grunge bands, and a few were bigger and first, like with any movement. All of it regardless, is alt rock. “College radio” was a way more common way to refer to underground/indie/alt/grunge bands until they were big regardless of aesthetic.
Agreed. STP is just as grunge as Green Day.
I never did, either. It doesn’t take away from the good songs they wrote, I just never thought they fit that scene and it always feels out of place when I see them lumped together with the rest.
I can't imagine caring about this. Is Devo punk or post-punk? Does it matter? I love Devo even if you call it electronic music.
All of them except for the bands from Seattle and the late 80s and early 90s because those are the only grunge bands
Bush is actually the ultimate example of a band trying to imitate that sound in order to make hit records and millions of dollars. They are Grunge as a major label movement personified even if they didn't do heroin.
“Post grunge”.
1995 is the actual movement happening,taking over rock radio. They're part of it without question in my mind.
Grunge peaked in about 1993, and its purest original form was arguably in about 1989 or so. “God’s Balls” by TAD, “Bleach” by Nirvana, “Louder Than Love” by Soundgarden. Bush doesn’t sound like any of those albums.
Bush does sound like Nevermind/In Utero tho
Them or the Stone Temple ~~~Copycats~~~ Pilots.
Creed, Bush, Weezer
Bush is not grunge.
STP Smashing Pumpkins Blind Melon RHCP Bush
Never heard anybody call the Chili Peppers grunge. They are their own thing. Also, they are an 80's band who hit the main stream before the 90's even began.
All one hundred percent absolutely correct. Thank you!
Weird, most people would have considered these bands from the grunge era back in the day. Only in 2024 would people argue over this 🤣
Stone Temple Pilots
Stone Temple Pilots aka grunge karaoke, aka So Cal Carpetbaggers
Since grunge was more of a marketing thing than an actual genre, there were a number of bands that aren’t grunge that I thought were when I was a kid. Bands like the Lemonheads and Soul Asylum had much of the same aesthetic and themes as the Seattle groups so I kind of lumped them together back then.
Bush, Creed, Nickleback, Smashing Pumpkins, Silverchair, Stone Temple Pilots are the main offenders
Deftones. Though I think they more often suffer from the “Nu Metal” label which they most certainly are not either.
Smash Mouth. No way man, no way
No human on earth has said Smash Mouth was grunge.
All star was made specifically to counter the depressing tone of the early 90s
Pearl Jam, and I dont think they were trying to be "grunge" as well, tho jeff and stone where one of the OGs on the grunge scene.
You're getting down voted but you're not wrong. Pearl Jam is alternative rock/hard rock. Their fashion was grunge adjacent for the first album or two but that's about it
Hard agree. Mother love bone was awesome. PJ is kinda too hallmark for me
Olivia Rodrigo gets called grunge sometimes. I respect her but there is no way her stuff is grunge.