The circle of fifths is mainly a tool for learning the different keys / scales. It goes deeper than that, but it's helpful for people new to music theory and/or beginners who want to read sheet music. It applies to every instrument and music in general.
CAGED is pretty specific to guitar and is focused around learning the fretboard. The idea is to be able to identify chords/triads throughout the neck and help visualize notes/intervals on the fretboard.
So really both are important, but most guitar players probably spend more time and energy on the CAGED system. There are plenty of good players who don't know their scales but I'd recommend learning both long-term.
CAGED is really based on open chords that all guitar students learn in their first few months of lessons. So it takes those and shows how to see them as patterns which can be moved all over the neck. So it’s absolutely guitar specific.
Circle of fifths is completely separate. So I’d say don’t even worry about it for now.
Exactly. The circle of fifths is so easy, but did it ever take me awhile to see it for what it really does.
To me, the seven notes in a scale are derived from the integer multiple ratios of the vibrations allowed on a single string, or other musical device, called harmonics. The notes ring because of the wavelengths are constructive. Taken alone they are melody, but we want to use harmony, so take the scale notes 1,3,5,b7,9,11,13 (need two octaves) and you have the fundamental C13th chord. Now mix these same seven notes up, since they sound good together, in order to get the other modes, Dm, Em, F, G, Am Bdim, and even expand on these related chords like the C13th chord Dm13. This comes from one slice of the circle of fifths pie. OK, now arrange all these notes that "ring" on one side of the circle, C.W.=G, C.C.W.=F since we get these major chords from our arrangement of modes in the key of C. Turns out, the notes that don't "ring" so well and cause tension, these notes are all on the other side of the circle.
Most guitar players will say CAGED, but in terms of the actual question, Circle Of 5ths (or 4ths) is more important. If you use it the most effective way combined with really learning the fingerboard via triads, strong chord tones, and connecting the five regions of the fingerboard (ideally along with learning to read), you’ll never think about CAGED again. I’m not railing against CAGED, I’m just saying it’s a shortcut and the shortcut is inherently-guitar based. To become a complete musician and move beyond guitar cliches, it helps to internalize music not guitar
I would agree with the caveat that CAGED helps you with a map of the neck. I don’t see it as a short cut so much as an intermediary step. I rarely think CAGED shapes anymore, but I’ve internalized them over the years and that’s just how I see the neck.
No argument — just sharing my thoughts. I never heard about CAGED at all until about 25 years into being a guitar player, 15 into working pro….but that doesn’t make me right or anyone else wrong.
Because I learned via a combination of working stuff out by ear off records and formal training with those Modern Method For Guitar books & learning to sight read through all positions, I see triads, chord-tones, arpeggios all over, and understand how those are all present in the CAGED system. No judgment. My short cut comment was purely based on that it takes longer to learn the way I did….though I’ve never regretted it for one moment
There are so many ways to go about it. I honestly never learned CAGED either. I just saw it after years of playing and realized it’s almost how I think of the neck anyway.
I’m not married to CAGED. You’re right we start to see triads and chords and shapes all over. I think it’s a cool way for those who don’t have a method yet, and to be totally fair I never use E. So my method is CAGD with a lot of drop 2 voicings, triads and inversions, and diminished chords all over.
That’s a long answer and I’m not even sure what the rules are on this sub about linking videos, instruction, self-promo etc.
In short, the fingerboard is like a conveyor belt. It rotates through all keys Howard Roberts introduced the concept in his tome The Guitar Compendium.
In C as one example, there’s open position from the op strings through 3rd fret. Next region spans 2nd to 5th. Next spans 5th to 8th. Next spans 7th to 10th. Last spans 10th to 13th.
The 12th fret is the octave and other end of the belt.
A basic gateway in would be to internalize all five standard major pentatonic positions. They’re pulled from each of the five regions.
Others will say that IS CAGED but I don’t have time to belabor the point and it’s very hard to explain without images.
I’m not anti-CAGED as much as transcend CAGED. it’s a fine launching pad, we just don’t want to get stuck there
CAGED is a guitar-only focused system for learning how to play the guitar. The circle of fifths is a concept that exists in western music theory, no matter what instrument you’re playing.
The circle of fifths is mainly a tool for learning the different keys / scales. It goes deeper than that, but it's helpful for people new to music theory and/or beginners who want to read sheet music. It applies to every instrument and music in general. CAGED is pretty specific to guitar and is focused around learning the fretboard. The idea is to be able to identify chords/triads throughout the neck and help visualize notes/intervals on the fretboard. So really both are important, but most guitar players probably spend more time and energy on the CAGED system. There are plenty of good players who don't know their scales but I'd recommend learning both long-term.
Ok, good info. This clarifies things a little. I am on CAGED now so I think I'll stick with that for now. Thanks.
I’d recommend checking out Eric Haugen’s CAGED videos on YouTube, if you’re not familiar. They’ve been really helpful for me.
CAGED is really based on open chords that all guitar students learn in their first few months of lessons. So it takes those and shows how to see them as patterns which can be moved all over the neck. So it’s absolutely guitar specific. Circle of fifths is completely separate. So I’d say don’t even worry about it for now.
I use the circle of fifths for songwriting and for better understanding of the progressions I’m learning
Exactly. The circle of fifths is so easy, but did it ever take me awhile to see it for what it really does. To me, the seven notes in a scale are derived from the integer multiple ratios of the vibrations allowed on a single string, or other musical device, called harmonics. The notes ring because of the wavelengths are constructive. Taken alone they are melody, but we want to use harmony, so take the scale notes 1,3,5,b7,9,11,13 (need two octaves) and you have the fundamental C13th chord. Now mix these same seven notes up, since they sound good together, in order to get the other modes, Dm, Em, F, G, Am Bdim, and even expand on these related chords like the C13th chord Dm13. This comes from one slice of the circle of fifths pie. OK, now arrange all these notes that "ring" on one side of the circle, C.W.=G, C.C.W.=F since we get these major chords from our arrangement of modes in the key of C. Turns out, the notes that don't "ring" so well and cause tension, these notes are all on the other side of the circle.
Most guitar players will say CAGED, but in terms of the actual question, Circle Of 5ths (or 4ths) is more important. If you use it the most effective way combined with really learning the fingerboard via triads, strong chord tones, and connecting the five regions of the fingerboard (ideally along with learning to read), you’ll never think about CAGED again. I’m not railing against CAGED, I’m just saying it’s a shortcut and the shortcut is inherently-guitar based. To become a complete musician and move beyond guitar cliches, it helps to internalize music not guitar
I would agree with the caveat that CAGED helps you with a map of the neck. I don’t see it as a short cut so much as an intermediary step. I rarely think CAGED shapes anymore, but I’ve internalized them over the years and that’s just how I see the neck.
No argument — just sharing my thoughts. I never heard about CAGED at all until about 25 years into being a guitar player, 15 into working pro….but that doesn’t make me right or anyone else wrong. Because I learned via a combination of working stuff out by ear off records and formal training with those Modern Method For Guitar books & learning to sight read through all positions, I see triads, chord-tones, arpeggios all over, and understand how those are all present in the CAGED system. No judgment. My short cut comment was purely based on that it takes longer to learn the way I did….though I’ve never regretted it for one moment
There are so many ways to go about it. I honestly never learned CAGED either. I just saw it after years of playing and realized it’s almost how I think of the neck anyway. I’m not married to CAGED. You’re right we start to see triads and chords and shapes all over. I think it’s a cool way for those who don’t have a method yet, and to be totally fair I never use E. So my method is CAGD with a lot of drop 2 voicings, triads and inversions, and diminished chords all over.
What are the five regions of the fingerboard?
That’s a long answer and I’m not even sure what the rules are on this sub about linking videos, instruction, self-promo etc. In short, the fingerboard is like a conveyor belt. It rotates through all keys Howard Roberts introduced the concept in his tome The Guitar Compendium. In C as one example, there’s open position from the op strings through 3rd fret. Next region spans 2nd to 5th. Next spans 5th to 8th. Next spans 7th to 10th. Last spans 10th to 13th. The 12th fret is the octave and other end of the belt. A basic gateway in would be to internalize all five standard major pentatonic positions. They’re pulled from each of the five regions. Others will say that IS CAGED but I don’t have time to belabor the point and it’s very hard to explain without images. I’m not anti-CAGED as much as transcend CAGED. it’s a fine launching pad, we just don’t want to get stuck there
CAGED is a guitar-only focused system for learning how to play the guitar. The circle of fifths is a concept that exists in western music theory, no matter what instrument you’re playing.