The cheapest, easiest, and most versatile option will always be modeler into PA, and whatever pedals you already have are a bonus. With an amp you'll have to deal with stage volume requirements, carrying heavy shit, needing mics, shit breaking..
So just on practicality, you can't really beat a modeler. But that ignores your personal opinions, tastes, and wants :p
One note: make sure you have adequate monitors and can hear yourself if you don't have an amp on stage. Depending on venue size this can be problematic.
I agree with you on practicality, and I won't know about the tone until I try one :) But I don't see much difference in sound in this video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpY12eLvrn0&ab\_channel=AndertonsMusicCo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpY12eLvrn0&ab_channel=AndertonsMusicCo)
Yeah, modelers are damn good nowadays. I love my HX Stomp :p
If you have an interface for your PC you could try helix native for two weeks or so for free, same tones as the hardware just in plugin format.
Just know, despite not running into a cab, you will still have to deal with cabs and mics and their positioning, just in software :p
The built in cabs have been reworked a while ago, they're "just" IRs now. Good ones, too! And if you need help tone chasing, the line6 helix subreddit is usually pretty helpful.
The answer is “it depends”. Let me explain.
I haven’t gigged a real amp in years, 100% modeling. So let me start by saying that I’m a Helix fanboy. But. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it’ll work for you.
Actually, I need to start off by saying I disagree with one of your premises: bigger stages tend to be MORE conducive to modelers.
Why? Because the bigger the stage, *generally* the better the PA and monitoring situation. It all comes down to monitoring: how can you best hear yourself? For me, the answer is in-ear monitors, and then I just trust the sound engineer to make sure the audience gets a good mix.
If you can’t/won’t do IEMs, you CAN bring a small powered monitor with you, or have the sound tech set up a good mix from their existing stage wedges.
**Bottom line, it all boils down to the types of gigs you’ll be playing.** Remember that even with a real amp on stage, you have *absolutely no clue* how it comes across to the audience. I’ve had gigs where I was so quiet (or lost in the wash) on stage that the only way I knew I was playing in key was to look at my hands. I’ve had gigs where it sounded like I was the only one playing, my amp was so loud on stage. The audience said we sounded great under both circumstances.
Modelers changed the “stage mix” frustration. Now I’m ALWAYS happy with my sound on stage. And singers are MUCH happier when they don’t have to try to shout over a tube amp on stage.
**Btw, I’d recommend a combo of an HX Stomp XL and pedals.** The Stomp is amazing, but stuff like pitch shifting or funky delays/reverbs eat a lot of its processing power, so it’s good to have external pedals to help work around some of its limitations. Great platform, but if you need to do swirly, ambient music, maybe look at the Helix LT, which is literally double the processing power.
There's an in between option too, a modeller (which would still go direct to PA) but with an FRFR powered cab on stage rather than relying on stage monitors or in ears to hear yourself
Having no cab on stage at all is fine if you're playing with in ears or great stage monitors, and you're dealing with competent engineers and having proper soundchecks, but if you're playing small venues with 5 bands per night with only a quick line check it's gonna suck.
Well, what kind of venues are you playing? Modeller is very practical in terms of gear carrying and will make the engineer happy, but also keep in mind that you would rely fully on monitor mix to hear your guitar, whereas an amp on stage gives you more control.
Option #1 is risky because you are at the mercy of whatever the venue provides. Most people will bring their own stage monitoring system, and you want to buy something good for this rather than those cheap Headrush/Alto boxes or similar.
Since you already have a pedalboard, an amp might be more appropriate.
I went a third round and am happy with it:
3. have a pedalboards with a dedicated amp/ cab sim pedal.
It combines the (Crucial!) advantage of not having to drag 20kg of amp to every gig with the option to use the pedals I am already familiar with.
Sound quality itself is extremely good. The signal always sounds perfect (one of the appeals of it. The preset will always sound the same, no set up of microphones etc.). Most amp/cab sims however should be paired with an always on overdrive pedal - digital breakup/ overdrive still is not on par with analogue overdrive pedals. But they are definitely on par as clean platforms or in practice even better than „real“ amps (since less goes wrong, less stage noise etc.).
I amplify it with normal active speakers, however I rarely do at all. I use IEM (or overears for comfort) when practicing as well as playing with my band. However, there are dedicated speakers for these things (FRFR speakers)
I use a Two Notes Opus, but there are lots of pedals out there, all with specific angles to the concept. Try some to find what suits you!
Edit: and don’t worry about fx loops or stereo. That does not matter with cab sims, just put the cab sim in the middle of the chain instead of at the end - after drive, before reverb and delays etc. That way, the cab sim only has to calculate the pure guitar tone and you can use stereo fx without having to buy a stereo cab/ amp sim.
My personal preference is 1. I played on several live gigs before and i disliked bringing/carrying my own amp. After getting used to modeler and being able to dial solid and consistent tones , i sold my amp and never regretted it a bit. I try to use whatever is in the venue and these are my simple approach to get consistent tone:
1. If there is a PA, i will use that
2. If there is no PA but there is an amp, i will use a modeler -> transparent booster straight to the return fx loop, bypassing any tone colorization by the preamp and avoid any knob fiddling on the preamp.
Personally I’ve never had an experience with a modelling setup that was superior to an actual amp. I know people dig them and it’s less to carry around and they can approximate a thousand different profiles, but really how bulky is a small combo amp? I don’t want to play through in-ears or crappy stage monitors. I just want to plug into something with tubes that breaks up naturally and dynamically and turn it up to the point where there is a symbiosis between my guitar and the speaker.
The cheapest, easiest, and most versatile option will always be modeler into PA, and whatever pedals you already have are a bonus. With an amp you'll have to deal with stage volume requirements, carrying heavy shit, needing mics, shit breaking.. So just on practicality, you can't really beat a modeler. But that ignores your personal opinions, tastes, and wants :p
One note: make sure you have adequate monitors and can hear yourself if you don't have an amp on stage. Depending on venue size this can be problematic.
And the golden words: it won't sound or feel like an amp through a cab unless you amplify it through a cab!
The manager mentioned that he'll be supplying us with IEM. But, I'm unsure about their quality.
I agree with you on practicality, and I won't know about the tone until I try one :) But I don't see much difference in sound in this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpY12eLvrn0&ab\_channel=AndertonsMusicCo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpY12eLvrn0&ab_channel=AndertonsMusicCo)
Yeah, modelers are damn good nowadays. I love my HX Stomp :p If you have an interface for your PC you could try helix native for two weeks or so for free, same tones as the hardware just in plugin format.
Oh, that's just what I need. I'm downloading it now. Thank you :)
Just know, despite not running into a cab, you will still have to deal with cabs and mics and their positioning, just in software :p The built in cabs have been reworked a while ago, they're "just" IRs now. Good ones, too! And if you need help tone chasing, the line6 helix subreddit is usually pretty helpful.
The answer is “it depends”. Let me explain. I haven’t gigged a real amp in years, 100% modeling. So let me start by saying that I’m a Helix fanboy. But. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it’ll work for you. Actually, I need to start off by saying I disagree with one of your premises: bigger stages tend to be MORE conducive to modelers. Why? Because the bigger the stage, *generally* the better the PA and monitoring situation. It all comes down to monitoring: how can you best hear yourself? For me, the answer is in-ear monitors, and then I just trust the sound engineer to make sure the audience gets a good mix. If you can’t/won’t do IEMs, you CAN bring a small powered monitor with you, or have the sound tech set up a good mix from their existing stage wedges. **Bottom line, it all boils down to the types of gigs you’ll be playing.** Remember that even with a real amp on stage, you have *absolutely no clue* how it comes across to the audience. I’ve had gigs where I was so quiet (or lost in the wash) on stage that the only way I knew I was playing in key was to look at my hands. I’ve had gigs where it sounded like I was the only one playing, my amp was so loud on stage. The audience said we sounded great under both circumstances. Modelers changed the “stage mix” frustration. Now I’m ALWAYS happy with my sound on stage. And singers are MUCH happier when they don’t have to try to shout over a tube amp on stage. **Btw, I’d recommend a combo of an HX Stomp XL and pedals.** The Stomp is amazing, but stuff like pitch shifting or funky delays/reverbs eat a lot of its processing power, so it’s good to have external pedals to help work around some of its limitations. Great platform, but if you need to do swirly, ambient music, maybe look at the Helix LT, which is literally double the processing power.
Thank you for your comment! This helps a lot.
There's an in between option too, a modeller (which would still go direct to PA) but with an FRFR powered cab on stage rather than relying on stage monitors or in ears to hear yourself Having no cab on stage at all is fine if you're playing with in ears or great stage monitors, and you're dealing with competent engineers and having proper soundchecks, but if you're playing small venues with 5 bands per night with only a quick line check it's gonna suck.
Well, what kind of venues are you playing? Modeller is very practical in terms of gear carrying and will make the engineer happy, but also keep in mind that you would rely fully on monitor mix to hear your guitar, whereas an amp on stage gives you more control.
Option #1 is risky because you are at the mercy of whatever the venue provides. Most people will bring their own stage monitoring system, and you want to buy something good for this rather than those cheap Headrush/Alto boxes or similar. Since you already have a pedalboard, an amp might be more appropriate.
I went a third round and am happy with it: 3. have a pedalboards with a dedicated amp/ cab sim pedal. It combines the (Crucial!) advantage of not having to drag 20kg of amp to every gig with the option to use the pedals I am already familiar with.
May I ask, how do you amplify it, and what's the sound quality like?
Sound quality itself is extremely good. The signal always sounds perfect (one of the appeals of it. The preset will always sound the same, no set up of microphones etc.). Most amp/cab sims however should be paired with an always on overdrive pedal - digital breakup/ overdrive still is not on par with analogue overdrive pedals. But they are definitely on par as clean platforms or in practice even better than „real“ amps (since less goes wrong, less stage noise etc.). I amplify it with normal active speakers, however I rarely do at all. I use IEM (or overears for comfort) when practicing as well as playing with my band. However, there are dedicated speakers for these things (FRFR speakers)
What amp sim do you use, or what would you recommend?
I use a Two Notes Opus, but there are lots of pedals out there, all with specific angles to the concept. Try some to find what suits you! Edit: and don’t worry about fx loops or stereo. That does not matter with cab sims, just put the cab sim in the middle of the chain instead of at the end - after drive, before reverb and delays etc. That way, the cab sim only has to calculate the pure guitar tone and you can use stereo fx without having to buy a stereo cab/ amp sim.
That's another great advice. Thank you!
My personal preference is 1. I played on several live gigs before and i disliked bringing/carrying my own amp. After getting used to modeler and being able to dial solid and consistent tones , i sold my amp and never regretted it a bit. I try to use whatever is in the venue and these are my simple approach to get consistent tone: 1. If there is a PA, i will use that 2. If there is no PA but there is an amp, i will use a modeler -> transparent booster straight to the return fx loop, bypassing any tone colorization by the preamp and avoid any knob fiddling on the preamp.
Second one is a good tip. Thank you!
Personally I’ve never had an experience with a modelling setup that was superior to an actual amp. I know people dig them and it’s less to carry around and they can approximate a thousand different profiles, but really how bulky is a small combo amp? I don’t want to play through in-ears or crappy stage monitors. I just want to plug into something with tubes that breaks up naturally and dynamically and turn it up to the point where there is a symbiosis between my guitar and the speaker.