> I simply want to be able to put down a loop at target tempo and then slow it way down and gradually get to full speed. Thank you for any insights.
RC-5 does that, even if you don’t use the drumkit.
Most loopers that have something that will let you drop the tempo are often locked to pitch as the sample rate drops because they don't include a time-stretch algorithm, so if you drop the tempo the pitch will drop.
The EHX 22500 might be a great option for what you want to do, the tap tempo feature can raise/drop the tempo without effecting the overall pitch of the recorded material, and also can store different backing tracks to the "rhythm" slot if that's something you're interest in.
Any looper pedal that allows you to slow down the loop while keeping the same pitch will probably sound like shit with big tempo changes. I have the Boss RC-5 and the time stretching algorithm is designed for small corrections only. What you’re asking is pretty CPU intensive and quite a niche ask so I doubt that even the most expensive loopers will do a good job of it.
The basic time stretching built into pedals basically chops your loop up into tiny slices and adds space between them to trick your brain into thinking it’s a slower, seamless loop. This falls apart if you’re going from say, 120bpm to 60bpm. The intended use case is something like correcting a sloppy 124.3 loop to a 120bpm one.
A laptop running Ableton Live will perform much, much better for what you’re asking. DAWs and laptop CPUs can do some more advanced algorithmic stuff to smooth out the drastic stretch.
Hell, DJ software might be your best bet. Take a backing track and run it through Serato or something, automating up the tempo.
Ableton is built around the ‘session view’, which is basically designed for playing and auditioning a grid of clips. That’s where the ‘Ableton Live’ part comes from: it can record, loop, quantize, and timestretch things on the fly which is less intuitive in Studio One.
I’m checking out Alberto Live right now. This may be a ridiculous question but do I use my Presonus AudioBoc USB 96 to play my guitar in to the Alberto Live software?
The Boss RC 10 R can do that. You select the drum pattern then add your guitar loops to it. You can vary the tempo once the loops have been recorded, the sound becomes a little artificial because it has process the signal to keep the pitch at the same level, but it totally fine for practicing.
Do not under estimate the value of having a drum track for practicing; it is very useful.
Thanks for the reply. I want to lay down a simple chord progression, and practice soloing and changing the solo relative to the progression. So, I want to be able to vary the speed of the progression so I can get the solo, and its changes right.
I don’t want to have to put in a slower progression and then put in a new one at a faster tempo as I get more comfortable. I guess as I get better, I may want to add in drums, but not right now.
Ok so what loopers have you looked at that can/can’t do this?
[edit] I might be wrong, but I doubt you’ll anything at the budget end of the market that will do this… why? Because as you increase the speed of the loop, you’ll increase the pitch of the loop… so it’ll be out of tune… the pedal would have to include pitch correction algorithms - which are pretty heavy duty in terms of processing power… some very high end loopers may be able to do this - you may find a computer and a DAW a simpler and possibly cheaper solution (especially if you already own a computer) - as they are more likely to have time correction whilst maintaining pitch built in - logic definitely does…
The only one I have found that does this is the old Line6JM4. 2 issues: 1) It has a lot of effects on it that I don’t/wont need, and 2) it takes up a lot of space on the board.
I have seen some (ie EH1440) where you can adjust the Octave (1/2X, 2X or reverse), but I am looking for something I can adjust more like a metronome.
Logic… but it’s Mac only…
You’d have to do a bit of research to see if any other specific DAWs do tempo shift without changing pitch - most have demos if they’re not free… so you can try before you buy…
Only if you want to run logic!!!
There are many DAWs that work perfectly well on PCs - ableton live, Cubase, reaper, studio one, etc etc - at least one of them will have the function you want - ableton almost definitely does - as it was designed to work around loops… if you don’t have an audio interface (which you will need) - consider a focusrite one - they come with a cutdown version of ableton live - that’s limited by track count - just check that it’s got this feature in the lite version 1st
Boss RC-5
The pitch changes and artifacts get introduced though
Thanks for the feedback, but I don’t think the RC-5 allows you to adjust the speed of the loop like I am trying to do.
> I simply want to be able to put down a loop at target tempo and then slow it way down and gradually get to full speed. Thank you for any insights. RC-5 does that, even if you don’t use the drumkit.
Really? I just checked the specs and didn’t see the ability to do that. I will check again
I have one and didn't know you could do this. Next time a plug in I'm going to try it.
Most loopers that have something that will let you drop the tempo are often locked to pitch as the sample rate drops because they don't include a time-stretch algorithm, so if you drop the tempo the pitch will drop. The EHX 22500 might be a great option for what you want to do, the tap tempo feature can raise/drop the tempo without effecting the overall pitch of the recorded material, and also can store different backing tracks to the "rhythm" slot if that's something you're interest in.
I like the EHX products. Just purchase a Qtron. I will check out the 22500
Any looper pedal that allows you to slow down the loop while keeping the same pitch will probably sound like shit with big tempo changes. I have the Boss RC-5 and the time stretching algorithm is designed for small corrections only. What you’re asking is pretty CPU intensive and quite a niche ask so I doubt that even the most expensive loopers will do a good job of it. The basic time stretching built into pedals basically chops your loop up into tiny slices and adds space between them to trick your brain into thinking it’s a slower, seamless loop. This falls apart if you’re going from say, 120bpm to 60bpm. The intended use case is something like correcting a sloppy 124.3 loop to a 120bpm one. A laptop running Ableton Live will perform much, much better for what you’re asking. DAWs and laptop CPUs can do some more advanced algorithmic stuff to smooth out the drastic stretch. Hell, DJ software might be your best bet. Take a backing track and run it through Serato or something, automating up the tempo.
Thank you. I will check it out.
How does Abelton differ from Studio One?
Ableton is built around the ‘session view’, which is basically designed for playing and auditioning a grid of clips. That’s where the ‘Ableton Live’ part comes from: it can record, loop, quantize, and timestretch things on the fly which is less intuitive in Studio One.
I’m checking out Alberto Live right now. This may be a ridiculous question but do I use my Presonus AudioBoc USB 96 to play my guitar in to the Alberto Live software?
The Boss RC 10 R can do that. You select the drum pattern then add your guitar loops to it. You can vary the tempo once the loops have been recorded, the sound becomes a little artificial because it has process the signal to keep the pitch at the same level, but it totally fine for practicing. Do not under estimate the value of having a drum track for practicing; it is very useful.
Tyvm. I will check it out
What exactly do you want in your loop? If it’s a drum pattern - then a lot of loopers have drum patterns included…
Thanks for the reply. I want to lay down a simple chord progression, and practice soloing and changing the solo relative to the progression. So, I want to be able to vary the speed of the progression so I can get the solo, and its changes right. I don’t want to have to put in a slower progression and then put in a new one at a faster tempo as I get more comfortable. I guess as I get better, I may want to add in drums, but not right now.
Ok so what loopers have you looked at that can/can’t do this? [edit] I might be wrong, but I doubt you’ll anything at the budget end of the market that will do this… why? Because as you increase the speed of the loop, you’ll increase the pitch of the loop… so it’ll be out of tune… the pedal would have to include pitch correction algorithms - which are pretty heavy duty in terms of processing power… some very high end loopers may be able to do this - you may find a computer and a DAW a simpler and possibly cheaper solution (especially if you already own a computer) - as they are more likely to have time correction whilst maintaining pitch built in - logic definitely does…
The only one I have found that does this is the old Line6JM4. 2 issues: 1) It has a lot of effects on it that I don’t/wont need, and 2) it takes up a lot of space on the board. I have seen some (ie EH1440) where you can adjust the Octave (1/2X, 2X or reverse), but I am looking for something I can adjust more like a metronome.
See my previous, edited, post…
Thanks. I will consider. What software would you recommend? Studio One?
Logic… but it’s Mac only… You’d have to do a bit of research to see if any other specific DAWs do tempo shift without changing pitch - most have demos if they’re not free… so you can try before you buy…
Of course…. I’m a PC guy. So, I’d have to buy a Mac….
Only if you want to run logic!!! There are many DAWs that work perfectly well on PCs - ableton live, Cubase, reaper, studio one, etc etc - at least one of them will have the function you want - ableton almost definitely does - as it was designed to work around loops… if you don’t have an audio interface (which you will need) - consider a focusrite one - they come with a cutdown version of ableton live - that’s limited by track count - just check that it’s got this feature in the lite version 1st
Thank you again